What they doin is blowing up Russian strategic fixed wing aircraft real good!
This will be in textbooks.
Ukraine secretly delivered FPV drones and wooden mobile cabins into Russia. The drones were hidden under the roofs of the cabins, which were later mounted on trucks.
1/— Maria Avdeeva (@mariainkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 10:20 AM
At the signal, the roofs opened remotely. Dozens of drones launched directly from the trucks, striking strategic bomber aircraft.
And — Russia can’t produce these bombers anymore. The loss is massive.
Nothing like this has ever been done before.— Maria Avdeeva (@mariainkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 10:21 AM
Flightline on Fire: Spectacular images of SBU special operation “Web” to destroy enemy bomber aircraft.The SBU says over 40 have been destroyed, including Tu-95 and Tu-22M3 bombers and A-50 aircraft. The enemy’s losses already exceed $2 billion, the SBU says.
— Euan MacDonald (@euanmacdonald.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 7:35 AM
‘Russian bombers are burning en masse’ — Ukraine’s SBU drones hit ‘more than 40’ aircraft in mass attack, source claims #Ukraine
— AmplifyUkraine 🔱🇺🇦 (@amplifyukraine.eu) June 1, 2025 at 7:08 AM
From The Kyiv Independent:
An operation by Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) using first-person-view (FPV) drones smuggled deep inside Russian and hidden inside trucks has hit 41 Russian heavy bombers at four airfields across the country, a source in the agency told the Kyiv Independent on June 1.
The operation — codenamed “Spider web” and a year-and-a-half in the planning — appears to have dealt a major blow to the aircraft Moscow uses to launch long-range missile attacks on Ukraine’s cities.
“The SBU first transported FPV drones to Russia, and later, on the territory of the Russian Federation, the drones were hidden under the roofs of mobile wooden cabins, already placed on trucks,” the source said.
“At the right moment, the roofs of the cabins were opened remotely, and the drones flew to hit Russian bombers.”
The source said one of the airfields hit was the Belaya air base in Russia’s Irkutsk Oblast, more than 4,000 kilometers from Ukraine.
Olenya air base in Russia’s Murmansk Oblast, the Diaghilev airbase in Ryazan Oblast, Ivanovo airbase in Ivanovo Oblast were also targeted.
“Currently, more than 40 aircraft are known to have been hit, including the A-50, Tu-95 and Tu-22 M3,” the source added.
The SBU later reported that the drone operation caused approximately $7 billion in damages and disabled 34% of cruise missile carriers in key Russian airbases.
The agency said that more details will be revealed soon. Also, they vowed to continue to drive Russian forces out of Ukrainian territory.
“We will strike them (Russia) at sea, in the air, and on the ground. And if needed, we’ll get them from underground too,” the SBU said.
A video provided by the source shows what appears to be a row of heavy bomber aircraft on fire at one of the airbases.
The A-50 provides several critical functions for the ongoing war in Ukraine, such as detecting air defense systems, guided missiles, and coordinating targets for Russian fighter jets.
Russia possesses fewer than ten of these planes. A-50 aircraft have an estimated price tag of around $350 million.
The Tupolev Tu-95, the Tupolev Tu-22, as well as the Tupolev Tu-160, are all Russian heavy bombers regularly used to launch missiles at Ukrainian cities.
The Tu-95 is the oldest of the three aircraft, a Soviet-era plane that made its first flight in 1952. It was originally used to carry nuclear bombs but has since evolved to launch cruise missiles.
Each aircraft can carry 16 cruise missiles – either the Kh-55/Kh-555 or the newer Kh-101 and Kh-102 air-launched cruise missiles.
Much more at the link!
To bear in mind. FAS: “Russia operates two types of nuclear-capable heavy bombers: the Tu-160 (…“Blackjack”) and the Tu-95 MS (“Bear-H”). We estimate that there are roughly 67 bombers in the active inventory” tandfonline.com/doi/full/10…. FAS doesn’t give Tu-160 numbers, but fewer than 20, IIRC
— Shashank Joshi (@shashj.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:11 AM
These strategic fixed wing aircraft are one of Russia’s key centers of gravity (COG). A center of gravity is defined as:
The source of power that provides moral or physical strength, freedom of action, or will to act. Also called COG.
COGs have the following characteristics:
- A source of leverage
- Allows or enhances freedom of movement
- Can endanger one’s own COGs
As The Kyiv Independent reported in the excerpt above, the Ukrainians have eliminated approximately 34% of these centers of gravity. It is likely that this percentage will be adjusted as the battle damage assessments (BDAs) are further refined as new and better data comes in. By removing these COGs, Ukraine has removed a significant Russian strategic capability. The manner in which they did it, by spending months quietly emplacing containers of drones in delivery trucks and vans, will force the Russians to inspect every similar vehicle, which will be a follow on effect of the operation. And the Russians have no way of knowing if there isn’t a second wave of these drone attacks all queued up and ready to go.
As someone who is Joint Targeting certified and, among my other areas of expertise, a strategic planner, this was an excellently planned and executed operation. The Ukrainians were thorough and patient. The weaponeering – matching the munition to the target – was innovative and, based on the results, very effective. As the full details of the planning for Operation Spider Web are disclosed it will become a case study at senior leader colleges (the war colleges) and the strategist schools.
Here is President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump.
A Brilliant Operation Was Carried Out on Enemy Territory, Aimed Exclusively at Military Targets – Address by the President
1 June 2025 – 21:41
I wish you health, fellow Ukrainians!
Just now, I received a report from Head of the Security Service of Ukraine Vasyl Maliuk – a brilliant operation was carried out. It took place on enemy territory and was aimed exclusively at military targets – specifically, the equipment used in strikes against Ukraine. Russia suffered truly significant losses – entirely justified and deserved. I thank the Security Service, General Maliuk personally, as well as everyone who was involved in the operation. The preparation took over a year and a half. Planning, organization, every detail was perfectly executed. I can say with certainty that this is an absolutely unique operation. What’s most interesting – and this can now be stated publicly – is that the “office” of our operation on Russian territory was located directly next to FSB headquarters in one of their regions. In total, 117 drones were used in the operation – with a corresponding number of drone operators involved. 34% of the strategic cruise missile carriers stationed at air bases were hit. Our personnel operated across multiple Russian regions – in three different time zones. And the people who assisted us were withdrawn from Russian territory before the operation, they are now safe. It is genuinely satisfying when something I authorized a year and six months ago comes to fruition and deprives Russians of over forty units of strategic aviation. We will continue this work.
Even before this operation was carried out, we had intelligence indicating that Russia was preparing another massive strike. And it is very important for all our people not to ignore the air raid alerts. Last night, there were nearly 500 Russian drones, attack drones. Each week, they have been increasing the number of units used per strike. Now, they have also prepared Kalibr missiles launched from naval carriers. We know exactly who we are dealing with. And we will defend ourselves by all means available to us – to Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. Not for a single second did we want this war. We offered the Russians a ceasefire. Since March 11, the U.S. proposal for a full and unconditional ceasefire has been on the table. It was the Russians who chose to continue the war – even under conditions where the entire world is calling for an end to the killing. And pressure is truly needed – pressure on Russia that should bring it back to reality. Pressure through sanctions. Pressure from our forces. Pressure through diplomacy. All of it must work together.
Today, I held an extended meeting with the Minister of Defense of Ukraine, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, the Head of my Office, the heads of our intelligence agencies, and military leadership. We discussed our expectations for the meeting in Istanbul on Monday. We continue to propose a full and unconditional ceasefire, along with all dignified and rational steps that could lead to a lasting and reliable peace. The Ukrainian proposal we presented to the Russians is logical and realistic. The Russians have not shared their “memorandum” with anyone – we don’t have it, the Turkish side doesn’t have it, and the American side doesn’t have the Russian document either. Despite this, we will attempt to achieve at least some progress on the path toward peace.
Today, I also received a report from Commander-in-Chief Syrskyi – on the situation at the front and on our Kursk operation. I am grateful to all our units. Resilience on the ground is just as important as our operations on enemy territory – operations that truly inspire.
And one more thing. Today, the Russians launched a missile strike on a military training facility in the Dnipro region. Unfortunately, there are casualties. Our servicemen were killed. My condolences to all their families and friends. This is not the first such attack when Ukraine loses people. I have scheduled a meeting – with the participation of, among others, Mykhailo Drapatyi, Andrii Hnatov, Oleksandr Syrskyi, and Defense Minister Umerov upon his return from the negotiations in Istanbul – to address this issue in detail. All our fighters are needed on the front line – defending Ukraine. Every one of them. And every life must be protected. All necessary decisions to that end will be made.
I thank everyone who is helping. I thank everyone who stands with Ukraine.
Glory to Ukraine!
Georgia:
Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
#GeorgiaProtests 🇬🇪
Day 186— Publika.ge (@publikage.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 2:07 PM
Georgians celebrate Ukraine’s mesmerizing Spider Web mission. ❤️😍🇺🇦🇬🇪
We’ll keep fighting just like our dearest ally. This is our day 186 of daily nationwide protests.
— Rusudan Djakeli (@rusudandjakeli.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 2:11 PM
So, a terrorist state with economy as big as that of Italy (no offense, Italy) makes demands about NATO non-enlargement and then proceeds to lose a massive share of its entire air force on home soil and a continent away from the war zone.
Russia is a joke. TREAT IT AS SUCH!
— Marika Mikiashvili 🇬🇪🇺🇦🇪🇺 (@marikamikiashvili.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:54 AM
The US:
Look who’s suddenly woken up after years of bashing Ukraine.
— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 2:16 PM
Obligatory:
Back to Ukraine.
A drone attack is ongoing against Russian airbases with strategic bombers. While the full damage is still unclear, several videos show multiple bombers have been badly hit. Satellite images from yesterday confirm that Belaya hosts various Tu-95 models, Tu-22M3s, and Tu-160s
— Tatarigami (@tatarigami.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:13 AM
Satellite imagery of Olenya Airbase from May 26 at 09:50 UTC, shared by @avivector on the X, shows the presence of 11 Tu-95MS (Bear-H), 5 An-12 (Cub), and 40 Tu-22M3 (Backfire-C) aircraft.
— Tatarigami (@tatarigami.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:13 AM
Another suspected target is Belaya Airbase. Satellite images from May 31, analysed by @avivector on the X, show the presence of 7 Tu-160 (Blackjack), 6 Tu-95MS (Bear-H), 2 Il-78M (Midas), 6 An-26, 2 An-12, 39 Tu-22M3, and 30 MiG-31 aircraft.
— Tatarigami (@tatarigami.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:13 AM
This is a serious development, as Russia’s operational fleet of strategic bombers is limited, with each type (like Tu-95 or Tu-160) numbering only in the two-digit range. The loss of over a dozen bombers could seriously impact Russia’s ability to carry out long-range strikes
— Tatarigami (@tatarigami.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:13 AM
More importantly, Russia has struggled to produce new strategic bombers since the collapse of the Soviet Union, focusing instead on modernizing and preserving its existing fleet. New bomber production, like Tu-160, has been limited to just a few aircraft per decade.
— Tatarigami (@tatarigami.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:13 AM
Ukraine’s negotiators will present a draft peace proposal to their Russian counterparts on Monday in Turkey. It lays out what Kyiv sees as a viable path to the end of the war. I’ve got a copy and have written what it includes in our updated story @financialtimes.com: www.ft.com/content/16f3…
— Christopher Miller (@christopherjm.ft.com) June 1, 2025 at 1:21 PM
From The Financial Times:
The massive co-ordinated attack by the SBU came as the country’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he would dispatch a team of negotiators to Istanbul for another round of peace talks.
According to people familiar with the operation, the drone attack, codenamed Spiderweb, was planned more than a year in advance and “personally supervised” by Zelenskyy. It used dozens of small “first-person view” drones armed with explosives.
The SBU smuggled the drones into Russia, followed later by small wooden mobile cabins, the people said. The drones were concealed under the roofs of the structures, which had been loaded on to lorries. On Sunday, the roofs were remotely opened and the drones launched towards Russian military airfields.
“This is exactly what we need to win the war, which is an asymmetric conflict — military creativity like that,” said Oleksandr Merezhko, head of the Ukrainian parliament’s foreign affairs committee.
A former Ukrainian officer who runs analytical group Frontelligence Insight said that while the damage would probably not directly influence Russia’s position on the battlefield, it was still significant.
“It does reduce Russia’s strategic capabilities [which] mean the ability to project power globally, the ability to deliver nuclear strikes and overall military posture in Eurasia,” he said. “When [the Russian] general staff plans wars, they don’t look just at one theatre of war or specific part of the front line. They assess the military capabilities and project how to execute the political will of leadership.”
Ukraine’s attack would dent Russia’s “geopolitical confidence”, he added.
In recent days, Zelenskyy has blasted Putin for failing to provide a “memorandum” outlining Russia’s conditions for peace. The memo had been promised to Kyiv and Washington ahead of the next round of negotiations.
Zelenskyy said Ukraine’s delegation would again be led by defence minister Rustem Umerov and that Russia had received his terms already. The president said he was seeking a full and unconditional ceasefire, the release of all prisoners, the return of Ukrainian children forcibly taken to Russia and an agreement for him to meet Putin.
“The key issues can only be resolved by the leaders,” he said.
One of the strategic objectives of Lee’s invasion of the North in June and July 1863 was to force the Army of the Potomac to concentrate in one place to try to push his Army of Northern Virginia back across the Mason Dixon line. A letter had been prepared for delivery to President Lincoln delineating the Confederacy’s terms once Lee was successful in finding, fixing, and finishing the Army of the Potomac. Fortunately, Lee, who was an excellent leader, but terrible general, lost the Battle of Gettysburg and the letter was never delivered. Unfortunately, Major General Meade, who was temporarily commanding the Army of the Potomac allowed Lee and his army to retreat rather than finishing them while he had the chance. This resulted in the war dragging on for another two years until President Lincoln brought Lieutenant General Grant and his subordinate commanders from the Army of Tennessee to take command of the Army of the Potomac in order to find Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia, fix it in place, and finish them.
That President Zelenskyy has prepared terms to be delivered after such a successful operation is not a coincidence. This operation may have been eighteen months in the making, but it’s execution was intended to create the most significant strategic effect possible. I would not be surprised at all that when Russia refuses President Zelenskyy’s terms, and they will refuse them, that another significant operation is teed up and ready to go.
Reuters is publishing Ukraine’s list of conditions to be presented at negotiations in Istanbul:
– 30-day complete ceasefire.
– All-for-all prisoner exchange.
– Meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin.
– No restrictions on Ukrainian forces.
– No recognition of Russian territorial gains.— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:52 AM
– Russian reparations payments.
– Current location of the front line will be the starting point for negotiations about territory.— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:52 AM
The Economist has more details:
SHORTLY AFTER noon on June 1st, Russian social media began flashing, alerting the world to Ukraine’s most audacious operation on Russian territory to date. In Irkutsk province in eastern Siberia, some 4,000km from Ukraine, locals posted footage of small quadcopter drones emerging from lorries and flying toward a nearby airfield, home to some of Russia’s most important strategic bombers. “I work at a tire shop,” one wrote. “A truck pulled in, and drones flew out of it.” From an airbase near Murmansk, in Russia’s far north, came similar stories: “The driver’s running around…drones are flying from his truck toward the base.” Other alarmed posts soon followed from airbases in Ryazan and Ivanovo provinces, deep in central Russia.
Ukraine’s main security agency, the SBU, has since claimed responsibility for the operation, which it has codenamed “Spider Web”. It said at least 41 Russian aircraft were destroyed or damaged across four airfields, including rare and extremely expensive A-50 early-warning planes (Russia’s equivalent of the AWACS) and Tu-22M3 and Tu-95 strategic bombers. The agency also released footage in which its pugnacious chief, Vasily Maliuk, is heard commenting on the operation. “Russian strategic bombers,” he says in his recognisable growl, “all burning delightfully.”
The strike is one of the heaviest blows that Ukraine has landed on Russia in a war now well into its fourth year. Russia has relatively small numbers of strategic bombers—probably fewer than 90 operational Tu-22, Tu-95 and newer Tu-160s in total. The planes can carry nuclear weapons, but have been used to fire conventional cruise missiles against Ukrainian targets, as recently as last week. That has made them high-priority targets for Ukrainian military planners. Many of the aircraft are old and no longer produced—the last Tu-22M3s and Tu-95s were made more than 30 years ago—and their replacements, the Tu-160, are being manufactured at a glacial pace.
The fact that Ukraine was able to damage or destroy such a large number of Russia’s most advanced aircraft deep inside the country reflects the development of its deep-strike programme, as well as the remarkable extent to which Ukraine’s undercover operatives are now able to work inside Russia. Since the start of the Kremlin’s all-out invasion, Ukraine’s operations have expanded in range, ambition and sophistication. Western countries have provided some assistance to Ukraine’s deep-strike programme—on May 28th Germany promised to finance Ukrainian long-range drones—but much of the technology and mission planning is indigenous.
Today’s operation is likely to be ranked among the most important raiding actions in modern warfare. According to sources, the mission was 18 months in the making. Russia had been expecting attacks by larger fixed-wing drones at night and closer to the border with Ukraine. The Ukrainians reversed all three variables, launching small drones during the day, and doing so far from the front lines. Ukraine had launched drones from within Russia previously; the difference was the scale and combined nature of the operations.
Symbolically, on this day 29 years ago — 1 June 1996 — Ukraine handed over its last nuclear weapon to russia under the Budapest Memorandum. In return, russia pledged to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and borders. Russia got the nukes. Ukraine got “security guarantees.” Remember?
— Iryna Voichuk (@irynavoichuk.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:26 AM
Exactly 29 years ago, Ukraine transferred its last nuclear weapon to the Russian Federation, shedding its status as a nuclear power.
On December 5, 1994, Ukraine, the Russian Federation, Great Britain, and the United States signed the Budapest Memorandum. Under this agreement, the signatories were
— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 6:58 AM
obligated to respect Ukraine’s independence and existing borders, to refrain from any aggression against Ukraine, including economic pressure, and to protect Ukraine’s territorial integrity from attacks. For over 11 years now, we’ve witnessed the true “value” of this document.
— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 6:58 AM
No country in the future will follow Ukraine’s steps.
— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 6:58 AM
Shoot the archer, not the arrow!
Deadly russian aircraft are in flames as Ukraine’s Pavutyna (spider web) operation strikes with precision.
— Iryna Voichuk (@irynavoichuk.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 9:02 AM
Truck self distracted. Why did russians come inside? Idiots.
— Kate from Kharkiv (@kateinkharkiv.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 10:21 AM
Trump to Zelenskyy: “You don’t have the cards.”
Meanwhile Zelenskyy:
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 1:03 PM
Kharkiv:
The air raid signal sounds in many regions of Ukraine. Explosions in Kharkiv Oblast reported.
Russia is predictable in its terror
— Iryna Voichuk (@irynavoichuk.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:37 AM
Interception of a dozen Russian Molniya kamikaze drones by the Khartiia unit. Kharkiv direction. youtu.be/oLfsaYqpLcE?…
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 4:38 AM
Kyiv:
‼️The first official published footage of the work of the new Ukrainian units operating Anti-Shahed Interceptor Drones!
As said, Kyiv is now protected by 10 such Anti-Drone teams. It’s also claimed that in total 200 Russian drones were downed during 60 days of the units existence.
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 11:36 AM
/2. We can see that unit uses the same type of Anti-Shahed Interceptor Drone which was shown earlier in April gone the first time.
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 3:34 AM
The Kursk cross border offensive:
Footage from the scene of the collapse of a bridge along with a freight train in the Kursk region of Russia, which blocked a highway,
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 5:41 AM
Bryansk Oblast, Russia:
In the Bryansk region of Russia, a bridge over railroad tracks collapsed at the moment when a passenger train was approaching it.
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) May 31, 2025 at 5:02 PM
That’s enough for tonight.
Your daily Patron!
There are no new Patron skeets or videos tonight. Here is some adjacent material.
Rescuing a roe deer entangled in anti-personnel barriers
— 🦋Special Kherson Cat🐈🇺🇦 (@specialkhersoncat.bsky.social) June 1, 2025 at 5:10 AM
Open thread!
Medium Cool – Rate the Shows!
glc
A good day. And it’s good to see that the news we’ve been getting about this is reliable.
I don’t suppose Putin will be likely to consider that he may have overplayed his hand, at this point.
Thanks.
Steve LaBonne
So much for Ukraine not having any cards, eh? Fuck you, TACO and VD Jance.
twbrandt
Wow. Just, wow.
Citizen Dave
Recalling how the IRA robbed munitions at–10 Downing?–the British through the roof of a van. Thinking outside the box…
Jay
Thank you, Adam.
Jay
Apparently, the drones were Machine Vision trained on target recognition and the best places to strike for maximum damage and acted autonomously.
They also used GLONASS and ruZZian cell phone towers to navigate and communicate back.
Apparently, some were also fiber optic controlled from the cargo containers to prevent jamming.
Security Consultants are currently shitting their pants, all across the globe.
Slava Ukraini, Hyroam Slava.
Denali5
I knew you would give us all the details on this amazing operation. Thanks, Adam. So glad it was successful!
Nukular Biskits
Excellent round-up, Adam.
And I’d love to be a fly on the walls of natsec meetings around the world for the next few days WRT the inevitable discussions about reconsidering defense postures/policies.
SuzieC
What do you think Putin will do?
Subcommandante Yakbreath
First: Many thanks Adam.
Second: I remember early on, when western military experts were looking down their noses at the Ukrainians and telling them they were doing it wrong. Turns out they knew exactly what they were doing…
Slava Ukraini.
Gin & Tonic
While the meaning is clear, there might still be a verb missing in that sentence.
Gloria DryGarden
@SuzieC: I want say “roll over.”
it’s just my first thought. Roll over, Beethoven.
that would be good, for him to know when he’s defeated, and stop all this. Ah, dreaming.
It’s good news , today.
Adam L Silverman
@Denali5: You’re welcome.
Adam L Silverman
@SuzieC: Escalate to the best of his ability.
Adam L Silverman
@Subcommandante Yakbreath: You’re welcome.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: You’re welcome.
Gin & Tonic
As you all can guess, Ukrainian Twitter was hopping today, equal parts pride and delight.
Gloria DryGarden
@Adam L Silverman: I expect you’re right.
SuzieC
@Adam L Silverman: That’s what I think. Will he consider the nuclear option?
HinTN
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, and thankfully that ability has its wings clipped somewhat. The Baltics are watching with intense interest!
Thank you, as always.
pajaro
@Gloria DryGarden:
And tell Tchaikovsky to move!
YY_Sima Qian
This op is one for the history books!
Even if “only” 10+ strategic bombers were destroyed/badly damaged, it will meaningfully affect Russia’s ability to lob cruise missiles at Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure. Much more so if the Ukrainian claims are closer to reality.
I am not sure it will have much of an impact on the front lines in the short to medium term, as my impression is that Russia has been using the cruise missiles launched by the strategic bombers as terror weapons, rather than targeting Ukrainian MIC. However, it is a huge loss for Russia because it has not shown the ability to replenish losses in the air, & the Tu-95s & Tu-22M3s are no longer in production.
Timill
@Gin & Tonic:
A verb, Senator!
Jay
@SuzieC:
Nope. Too much fallout.
ruZZia will cut back on strikes for about a week, then launch massive strikes against civilian targets.
SuzieC
@Jay: Well, that’s a relief. Although I wouldn’t put anything past Putin.
Harrison Wesley
So is the Istanbul meeting still on?
Mousebumples
Thanks as always for your informative updates!
Jay
@YY_Sima Qian:
A single TU-95 and the others, can carry 16 cruise missiles. They don’t because they are worn out old airframes.
So this strike will in the short term, not have much impact on ruZZia’s terror strikes against Ukraine.
It will f/u all aspects of ruZZia’s logistics. ruZZia is the lead member in a MOU, where eg. a shipment that crosses Kazakhstan borders, gets inspected, ( if it is at all) in Kazakhstan, then travels uninspected into ruZZia.
Basically every RUSASP soldier will be shitting bricks every time a truck drives by.
YY_Sima Qian
The brilliant op also exposes some deep incompetence in the Russian military command (what else is new). Simple netting & relatively cheap closed shelters (do not even need to be hardened) would be effective in protecting against such quadcopter drones. Despite Ukraine’s demonstrated ability to launch long range drone strikes from Ukrainian territory, as well as short range drone strikes from w/in Russian territory, the Russian command never though to implement these simple & inexpensive protective measures.
Jay
@SuzieC:
A nuke brings other players hard into the game.
sukabi
@SuzieC: after he changes his pants?
Jay
@Harrison Wesley:
In theory.
Ukraine released their “conditions”.
ruZZia has not.
So the “meeting” will be blind.
It’s just more bs. from ruZZia jerking TACO around.
Jay
@YY_Sima Qian:
They did. Nothing got built. The guy in charge took early retirement to his 4 mansions outside Zurich.
YY_Sima Qian
@Jay: Ha!
Gloria DryGarden
@YY_Sima Qian: please don’t give them ideas.
Bupalos
@YY_Sima Qian: One thing that most westerners don’t see in the political dynamics here is that Russians (especially the kind of Russians that end up in the regime or in operational control) have a level of ethnic bigotry versus Ukrainians that rivals and may surpass that which white people in the United States… or maybe even South Africa… display against black people. One of the reasons these t’s don’t get crossed and i’s don’t get dotted is their ridiculous belief in Russian superiority and Ukrainian inferiority. You don’t need the netting because subhumans can’t hatch a plot like this.
I can see the regime’s coverage now, they are going to be 1000% convinced that this attack came from the UK and the United States. They will not be able to process that Ukraine did this. I mean, that will be the propaganda, but also people like Putin will absolutely believe it. They’ll be thinking this might mean Trump has lost power, or that there are NATO troops inside Russia.
Harrison Wesley
@Jay: I’ve never had a Russian taco…. not sure I’d like to try one.
Geminid
Adam, I’m wondering if you’d care to comment on Turkiye’s role in tomorrow’s talks. I saw a picture of the May 16 talks in Hurriyet News that showed Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan presiding.* I expect he will again tomorrow.
Fidan was in Moscow last week, while his boss President Erdogan spoke with President Zelensky by phone. So the Turks has been active in preparations at least.
And some time if you’d care to give your appraisal of Turkiye’s strategic goals regarding this war, I’d appreciate that also as I appreciate all your posts and comments.
* There were four other Turkish officials present. I think they may have padded their delegation so the longer table would keep the Ukrainians and Russians farther apart. But M.I.T. Director Ibrahim Kalin was seated next to Fidan, and Kalin is not padding. Both he and Fidan seem to be very capable operators, and both men have Erdogan’s trust and confidence.
Bupalos
This is so impressive. The most impressive thing about it to me is the determination and strategic patience that it speaks to. It has me imagining all kinds of other parallel things that may be happening. I wish I had been on to this earlier today, I would have made it a thing at our Rusyn dance practice earlier tonight. We would have broken out the slivovitz or Shabo.
Bex
Thanks Adam and Slava Ukraini!
Adam L Silverman
@SuzieC: No, he’s delusional, not suicidal.
Bupalos
@SuzieC: It’s easy to say “nuclear option” and really hard to figure out any actual option involving nukes that realistically works to Putin’s advantage.
Putin’s real nuclear option is “talk about nukes.” The second he actually used one… I mean, I can’t even figure out a scenario where he uses any nuke and retains a 10% chance of staying alive let alone in power.
Trollhattan
I thought the Hezbollah pager scheme was clever but this is orders of magnitude on another level. Just damn.
Bupalos
@Jay: I’m still processing this but one thing about this strike and operation – it speaks to a VERY long-term kind of determination. It’s degrading Russian power in a very general and deep way. Not a particularly tactical defensive way that is thinking about next week. I mean, it will have “next week” ramifications for sure.
But this is the way you’d look to degrade an opponent you were planning on needing to completely erase as a threat, even if it took you 30 years.
catclub
Did Russia possibly have some hints about this? I say that because Putin had just started moving strategic airforce resources to different bases.
Obviously not enough hints to stop them.
There was a report a fifth airbase was also targeted but not hit. Could be drunken truck driver got lost.
Adam L Silverman
@Geminid: I’ll answer this tomorrow night.
Denali5
Jay
@Harrison Wesley:
a ruZZian TACO is currently your President, and most of your NAT Sec Staff.
Bupalos
@Adam L Silverman: Well, he’s not suicidal yet.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: I doubt it. Some of the movement of these planes put them on the targeted bases.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Should be fixed now.
Gin & Tonic
@Bupalos: As you no doubt know, russia and Ukraine have a history. A long history.
Adam L Silverman
I’m to bed. Catch everyone on the flip.
Adam L Silverman
@Bex: You’re welcome.
catclub
Unfortunately I cannot envision a scenario like that that kills less than a million Ukrainians first.
Then millions of Russians?
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: interesting, about the hatred so much like USA racism. Did not know. Jeebus.
Gin & Tonic
@catclub: From what I’ve read, part of the SBU op was getting russia to move their air assets around with an eye to concentrating them, making targeting more efficient.
It seems very cleat that russia’s intelligence in Ukraine is weak.
wjca
I was especially taken by the Ukrainians using their regular drone operations to chivvy the Russians into moving their bombers to convenient concentrated locations.
For weeks, if not months, to come Russia will be creating logistics problems for itself, while they try to locate any drones which are in place for a follow-up strike. And, as soon as they let up, the Ukrainians can just make another deep strike. Doesn’t need to be as massive as this one. Doesn’t even need to focus on bombers. Just a reminder, to keep the Russian paranoia in full flight.
catclub
Fascinating. Interesting choice of UK and US. Russia only considers those as equals.
Ignores Ukraine having become the world experts on drone warfare.
Gin & Tonic
@Gloria DryGarden: russians will verbally and in very many cases physically attack Ukrainians they encounter in the streets of many, many western European cities. This is extremely common.
Bupalos
@Gin & Tonic: Indeed. Ukraine and Poland too. I’m on some pins and needles here seeing how this election plays out, Tusk needs an allied presidency… if he gets it, we’ll see the biggest anti-fascist gains of the last decade, we could see Ukraine solidified, we could see Europe feeling a different way…
Bill Arnold
Linked in one of these war threads (in 2023).
Linked page has some spider web audio clips. :-)
VIBRATING WITH THE WEB
See also “Slaughterbot” Autonomous Killer Drones | Technology (Nov 17, 2017).
Ukraine’s drones in this operation were trained to attack specific types of aircraft, not individual humans.
SuzieC
@Bupalos: Does he care, though?
Bupalos
@catclub:
One of the things I bet US military are pulling their hair out about with our arm’s length aid the past few years here is that they know that being IN the current conflict means you’re stronger for the next one.
I’m sure we’re getting a lot of information, and I guess under Biden we were maybe 3/5ths in. But every little shuffle backwards that the Biden or especially Trump administration takes is a shuffle away from full military competence.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gin & Tonic: I had no idea. Wow.
and, aren’t the languages similar? This colors it in a lot, to understand how much Russians are oriented to be violent and verbally attacking of Ukrainians. This was important to know.
bupalos is mentioning Poland, too, but I’m not sure who is hating whom…
Jay
@catclub:
Ever since Ukraine struck an airfield in Crimea, ruZZia has been moving it’s long range aviation further away from Ukraine.
As Ukraine increased the range of their strike drones, it was only “practical” to move aviation further away. It just slows down strikes, after all these aircraft are built to cross the Atlantic and strike US Cities.
Moving to these bases also ensured better air defense against drones as Ukraine was pounding air defenses in Crimea and the border regions. Lot’s of time to “see” the drones coming and as they are long range, they are bigger, and need to fly at night..
what ruZZia did not see was short range strikes by small drones, in daylight, using Machine Vision, launched from just outside the doors of their airbases.
Bupalos
@SuzieC: Oh absolutely. Putin? Putin is absolutely a rational self-interested actor. I mean, he’s got some increasingly nutty self-interests, but… yeah, he’s not near as mentally ill as Trump. I do hope he loses power before his age is so advanced that it enters more fully into the equation for him. But right now, Putin does not want to do something that causes him to die or lose power. He’s a very stable (sub)genius.
I would absolutely bet on Trump launching nukes before Putin would.
No One of Consequence
Ukraine Security Forces to Mossad: Hold my beer.
Lovely stuff, fucking epic operation, asymetric as all get out. By the looks of it, wildly successful too.
I’m kind of glad in retrospect, that Biden never allowed decent range of our munitions there. Likely gave rise to this kind of creative thinking in Ukraine, also likely giving them stronger self-reliance than they might otherwise have developed, had we given them what they needed.
Before you jump down my throat, I do realize the dead and wounded civilian and military in the interim. I regret any civilian injuries, and any Ukrainian military casualties — but I confess I don’t feel badly that the Russian population is starting to feel more direct heat and fear from this war. It’s easy to ignore when the frontlines are so far away. As Roger Waters had it: the Bravery of Being Out Of Range.
I’d like for all of this to end as quickly as possible. Full territorial restoration of Ukraine. Full reparations paid by Russia. Forced abdication by Putin. If I were Ukraine, the first two aren’t negotiable.
Trying hard not to hate the Russian people. They must surely realize, as those of us in America must surely being realizing: Russians are making generations of enemies and at-best-neutrals who will never trust or do business with them willingly, ever. The US is doing our fair share of the same, but the Russians will be living next to Ukraine for some time. That’d make me a nervous individual, were I living in Russia for anytime soon or any length of time. (Which universe-willing, I shall never be.)
-NOoC
p.s. Thanks for these posts Adam. I know it must be a long hard slog, but many of us deeply appreciate your efforts and insight. Thank you.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bill Arnold: oh very cool, interesting.
this is different, but I ’m Reminded of the mycelium, miles of it beneath each square inch of soil, communicating and transporting nutrients between plants. Vast network..
Bill Arnold
@wjca:
From above, Zelenskyy. (bold mine)
SuzieC
@Bupalos: Agree. But who would Trump launch nukes against? Russia, or California?
Bupalos
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah. Drunk. Pretty much always drunk.
Ukrainians have a phrase for this that I heard at our last New Year’s party that I have totally forgotten. When a Russian gets drunk and starts shit-talking to a khokhol… whether one is actually there or not.
Bill Arnold
@Gloria DryGarden:
Yes, very similar, and with similar metaphorical richness.
Bupalos
@SuzieC: China I guess. No idea really. I just mean he’s generally less mentally stable than Putin is. Launching nukes is the act of someone who simply can’t do the math. Putin can do math.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: no one want you to bet on that. Perish the thought. Cancel, delete.
Jay
@Bupalos:
just to let you know, ” khokhol” is the ruZZian “N” word for Ukrainians, not really a good word to use around here.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bill Arnold: what’s also interesting is when I can’t ground by growing imaginary roots down into the earth, (they snap up and coil like old window shades), I ground by sending out spiderweb horizontally, wide, spreading far across the spaces, as a sensory organ, and as an anchor. It works pretty well, when the roots down don’t ( sometimes they do)
Gin & Tonic
@Gloria DryGarden: Poland and Ukraine had an unpleasant history with each other in the 19th and first half of the 20th Centuries. But they now have common purpose and are cooperating politically and militarily, because Poland knows, if Ukraine falls, they’re next.
hotshoe
Hardly anything in the world could make me happier than hearing about Ukraine’s success against Russian war criminals.
I wonder what we will hear, as a result, in the next round of peace talks. Any chance Russia agrees to the immediate ceasefire in hopes of preventing the next drone attack?
Gin & Tonic
@Bupalos: Yeah, listen to Jay.
Gin & Tonic
@hotshoe: No.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: thank you for this clarification.
frosty
What an amazing operation! Destroying 34% of the strategic bombers firing cruise missiles — with drones? After seeing this I’m beginning to think that the Pentagon is buying vulnerable multi-million dollar weapons to fight the last war. Yet again.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gin & Tonic: thank you. This insider information and angle is priceless.
AlaskaReader
Thanks Adam
Bill Arnold
@Gloria DryGarden:
Yes.
Quantum mechanics is similar (the real physics sort, not the wu). The connectivity is never precisely zero, at least if a causal connection is possible at all.
ceece
thanks Adam!
the photo up top of the ‘cabins’ shows 7 or 8 of them. Hope that means there are more drone clusters all queued up and driving around Russia on some trucks somewhere. Would be great to hit the rest of those bombers at their next location!
Gloria DryGarden
@Bill Arnold: I look forward to discussing this further with you. I only know a little about quantum entanglements, which came out after I was no longer in college, and stuff like the way a particle is also a wave, depending, or simultaneously.
The woo people like it too, but I’m curious to grasp a lay person’s version of the science. There’s a lot of metaphor that helps understand it via approximation.
this goes over my head, but I want to get there:
SuzieC
@hotshoe: 100%
Medicine Man
@Gloria DryGarden: I find this content creator informative on some facets of European history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdSCf-tyBu4
Some of his viewers like to give him a hard time, saying they enjoy listening to him try to pronounce Polish and Ukrainian words properly. :)
For my part, his video crapping on Chomsky is a guilty pleasure.
YY_Sima Qian
@Trollhattan: Israel didn’t give a damn about potential collateral damage in the execution of the Hezbollah pager scheme, just as it does not in any of its operations in Gaza, the WB, southern Lebanon & Syria. Ukraine took care to only attack military targets, & has always taken care to minimize civilian casualties in the current war.
In fact, Israeli conduct in Gaza is on par with (& perhaps worse than) Russian conduct in Ukraine. Israeli operations these days can be tactically brilliant, but strategically self defeating, & its atrocities are rapidly draining popular support around the world while giving room for Anti-Semites everywhere to try to legitimize themselves by latching onto the pro-Palestinian cause.
No One of Consequence
@Bill Arnold: Does quantuum entanglement still obey the speed of causality despite distance?
(Read theoretical stuff about entangled pairs being split among travelling starships for instantaneous communication with Earth.)
Don’t know enough to speak to it. Recently was convinced by something I read/saw that the c in E=mc^2 isn’t the speed of light, but rather the speed of causality. Hoping that isn’t pure bullshit.
-NOoC
Jay
@Gin & Tonic:
Funny how WWI never ended until 1945 in some ways. I would put the marker of WWI ending at the end of the Bosnian wars and Kosovo.
Gloria DryGarden
@YY_Sima Qian: not all pro Palestinians are anti semites. Interesting frame, that the situation gives anti semites a thing to latch onto.
often though, I had thought anti semite people were also anti Islam, anti immigrant anti dei, etc…
it’s pretty great how Ukraine trues hard to only attack military targets, whereas the Russians, and the Israelis, in their war strategies have gone after civilians. Isn’t it a war crime? I mean, plural, all those instances..
Traveller
@No One of Consequence:
I like your analysis as to the operation building Ukrainian self reliance…and a big boost to Morale.
However, I think Ukraine would have gotten here anyhow…they have continued to show remarkable inventiveness through out this conflict and any adequate arms shipments would not
de-rail the Ukrainians from this path.
This being said, it would have been nice had Biden done more…but the Russian attack came only 6 months after the collapse of the Afghan Government…would Ukraine hold up better?
The answer was yes, but unknowable in early 2022; then of course there was Mike Johnson and the Republican Congress refusing any funding for more than half a year…there were substantial threats from Russia against the whole West…I think Biden did well all things taken into account.
Or! This has always been my argument but now I wish Biden had done more, pushed harder…of course this is with hindsight.
War is destructive to all our carefully plotted plans, and must be seen always…as educational.
Best Wishes, Traveller
Gloria DryGarden
@Medicine Man: thank you
@Gin & Tonic:
@Jay:
it’s pure love, you guys sharing links and insider information so one can be more up to speed. I’m not officially retired, so I don’t keep up wit( everything as much as one would hope. But I am so grateful to be included in this way.
even if the subject is painful, dark, and heinous. Even so.
Gloria DryGarden
@Traveller:
War is destructive to all our carefully plotted plans, and must be seen always…as educational.
forgive me, I had a dyslexic moment, and misread that to say
war is destructive to our carefully potted plants…
not making a joke, just a metaphor.
Although, you said it better; I’ve just personalized it. The two meanings existing side by side, not quite like a physics paradox.
Chetan Murthy
@Medicine Man: thank you for sharing this link; I watched it with great interest, it was a very informative and educational video.
AxelFoley
@Bupalos:
C’mon, now.
dimmsdale
Well, I was beginning to lose hope that some evening I’d pop in for my usual evening briefing, and be met with largely good news. After all this time, I guess this is that evening. Thank you, Adam. And many thanks to the astute regular commenters, who add so much. Slava Ukraini!
Ruckus
@frosty:
Remember whenever someone zigs, someone else zags – or waits until their opponent’s back is turned – or both.
The point of war is to decimate your opponent, no matter who started it. Sometimes you have to decimate a country – sometimes you don’t. You don’t often find out which till way too late to change much.
TS
@SuzieC:
I wouldn’t either – if he could be sure the US won’t retaliate – he will try anything.
No One of Consequence
@Traveller: My comments were no slight to Ukraine in the least. More a slight to our hesitant and self-limiting involvement.
I was around and paying attention to George the Elder gathering like minds and knocking Saddam’s dick in the dirt when he waltzed into Kuwait.
Easy for me to say, but I wish we would have backed Ukraine with more than they would need. And do it over time. So Russia would realize early on that it was a losing proposition.
Someone either here or somewhere else mentioned strategic weapons use being more likely. I am not sure. We cannot count on our current SecDef, but the previous one made it clear that were strategic weapons of any sort employed, that every asset in Ukraine (the ~2011 borders) that was RUS would immediately be a target.
I hope the fear of that possibility still exists within the Russian military, if not with the Russian leadership.
-NOoC
ETA: I didn’t finish my first thought with the initial post: Ukraine is now (I believe arguably) the world’s leader in drone warfare. I would imagine that when this war ends, any spare UKR servicefolk will be highly desirable for speaking/training/plotting engagements all over the world.
Westyny
Thanks, Adam. Great to see a big thread, like tonight and last night. The news is electrifying and profound for power games at the level of the big powers.
Westyny
@Gloria DryGarden: Haha! Me, too.
Jay
@TS:
France and Britain also have nukes, and they have extended coverage to the rest of the EU, for the same reason, they first got nukes. They did not trust that the US would respond if the Soviets nuked London, or Berlin.
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
Other than saying I’m ecstatic over the success of Operation Spider Web, I’m not going to comment because really, what more needs to be said? Other than that if another such operation is planned, I hope it’s in Crimea.
There has been some analysis of the destruction of the 3 railroad bridges that were destroyed and there are 3 theories about them.
1. Ukraine planned and executed the destruction of the bridges, possibly with the help of local resistors.
2. Russian incompetence and love of bribes and general corruption led to the bridges being poorly maintained, and that’s why they collapsed. Makes sense to me.
3. This was a FSB false flag operation, designed to make Ukraine look bad. Given that Ukraine never deliberately attacks civilian targets and that civilians were killed and injured when one of the bridges collapsed, this also rings true. YMMV and I would like to know what you think about it.
Thank you Adam, as always. From what you said yesterday, it’s obvious you’re angry about the way you have been treated on BJ. That’s so unfair. Sometimes mellows need to be harshed.🙄
Bupalos
@Gin & Tonic: That was the point of the story. I can’t really get over how disappointed I am how little people on the internet listen to each other. I am part Ukrainian, I have family there (you do too… I actually pay attention to what you say) I spend spend about 1/4 of my free time promoting Rusyn/Ukrainian culture, and the entire thing was trying to say people don’t understand the degree of ethnic superiority Russians deploy against Ukrainians (mostly to make themselves feel good about themselves.)
And you’re like “Listen to Jay, Bupalos, don’t use that word???!”
This is why I say this isn’t a real place and none of us should be here.
One of the other things it brings to mind is how sclerotic we’ve become in the US with language policing. I mean, I hang with Ukrainians on the regular. The idea that one would be like “don’t use that word” in this context of explaining Russian ethnic bigotry is straight hilarious. Do you want me to look up some of Zelenzkyy’s comedy for you? Then you can draft him an email telling him not to use that word, and explain what it means!!!!
Bupalos
@Jay: Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea it was a pejorative. You mean the drunk Russians are using a pejorative??!
I’ll try not to use it in the future.
Jay
@Bupalos:
It’s the “N” word, ruZZians have for Ukrainians, “also with an H rather than a K”.
We have ruZZians here. Most are dirt people. We also have a lot of Ukrainian refugees. I have seen and involved myself in several encounters, along with many others.
pieceofpeace
Thank you, Adam.
Bupalos
@Jay: I totally know that, like DEEPLY. But it’s my fault, I remembered writing that in quotes, without the quotes it’s… it makes sense that I’d get educated about it.
I apologize for the tone. To G&T too.
Bupalos
Ah fuck. Looks like the deranged right winger won the Polish presidential election. Huge blow.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: it happened to me. Someone used a word, to refer to people in her group. Her dad used it talking about others in that group. It seemed just a neutral word.
And then I used it, and 10 people were all over me, saying don’t say that, it’s pejorative, how dare you, you’re predjudiced, that’s ugly. I truly didn’t know. So I asked around carefully to confirm or clarify, and now, you betcha, I’m not using that word again, although the members of that group, might. And her dad, might.
so there are words that might be used within a group, or with a neutral tone that doesn’t convey that it’s pejorative. And one might not know it. Like zelenskys comedy, which I can’t listen to because I don’t speak any Slavic languages. It’s a bitch learning about it the hard way, people think I was coming on strong with ill intentions, and I simply had only heard it as a neutral. It can happen.
it happened on another word, too, referring to members of another group of people, that I didn’t know was pejorative, had only heard as a neutral. I used it in front of my best friend. She threatened to kill me. Broke up our friendship.
She could not hear that I didn’t know. In my researching that word, others said, well maybe now you learned a lesson, and you’re a better person.
Holy flickers, I truly did not know, lived my whole adult life without tv, rarely listened to radio, didn’t get internet at home until I was 60. There are things in the waves of popular language and usages that one can possibly not know. I wasn’t a better person, nor a worse person, I simply didn’t know.
this is a real place. We don’t know each other’s backgrounds or sensitivities until we trip over them here, but I’m sure we’re all real people. I didn’t know you were part Ukrainian until tonight. Connecting by writing,
the tone and nuance can be missed. And as seen, we react to things. I understood all your comments on this thread tonight, btw. I don’t always. Just certain concepts all made sense tonight.
now you know, and I know, about a word, something we didn’t know before.
if you speak some Ukrainian, I am desperate to understand if the Russian and Ukrainian languages are close enough that one understands another, like spanish and Italian, or if they are far different from each other, like Portuguese and French , where it’s only by reading it or hearing certain words , that the language similarities can be noticed. And I don’t know if you have any Romance languages for this comparison. Maybe gin and tonic does, he speaks many languages.
Steve Crickmore
Such a pity, Russia didn’t sign up for that ceasefire when they had a chance. Slava Ukraini!
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: I’m confused. You didn’t know it’s pejorative. You did know it deeply, you meant to use quotes. Which is it? Are you multiple personality?
You don’t have to answer obviously. But it’s confusing
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
Yes, and no.
Ukrainians generally understand ruZZian.
ruZZians, not so much.
158 groups speak at best, a ruZZian dialect, some don’t speak ruZZian at all.
Gloria DryGarden
That’s a lot of dialects. Separate from the varied Slavic languages. I’m guessing Ukrainians understand Russian because it was a second language in schools and because it was part of ussr for a long time.
i assume by dialects you mean different vocabulary and accents, like British vs American ( both US and Canada pretty darn close), New Zealand, Aussie, Nigerian, Liberian accents, southern accents, New York and Boston accents. And varied slangs.. and in incomprehensible accents like from Liverpool ..like that?
Spanish has many dialects, partly accents, pronunciations, partly word uses… is this what you mean? People from big cities, I can usually make out their spanish accent, but people from the interior of countries, their speech is impossible for me to understand. They understand me, but I can’t follow them.
russian and former ussr has so many ethnic groups and languages, but that wasn’t what you meant was it? Oh dear, so many layers
BTW friend in north Georgia near Tennessee, is feeling your smoke, from your fires. The whole northern 2/3 of USA is probably aware ..
I hope you see northern lights tonight. I should be out looking, but I’m not. It’s all city lights, here, too late to drive two hours to Wyoming for some pink that only shows on my camera.
Chetan Murthy
@Gloria DryGarden: This might help: https://blog.duolingo.com/ukraine-language/
I’m no linguist, nor a historian. From this page, perhaps a better analogy might be to Latin and Romance languages? Maybe Ukrainian-vs-Russian might be analogized to French-vs-Italian? That page says that the divergence started over a thousand years ago.
I sure don’t know, and the differences might be even greater than that.
Chetan Murthy
I see tonight over at dKos ( https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/6/1/2325484/-Ukraine-is-acting-Russia-NOW?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web ) that tonight Ukraine has been attacking Russia with long-distance drones — 150 or so, from what I read.
Military targets all over Russia. Lordy, when will the Russian elites just depose this madman and make peace? [I know, I know, most of them are just as bigoted and racist against Ukrainians, and the war would just continue ….sigh]
Gloria DryGarden
@Chetan Murthy: I did some google searching, and found some stuff on Wikipedia, and more on a YouTube with a linguist named Paul. I’m getting lots of the deets, different alphabets, not so many cognates, lot of vocab differences, and pronunciation differences. Nowhere near the similarities between Romance languages. Thanks for your answer and Jay thank you, too; your answer is an excellent summary. Paul has so many examples of the differences.
orson Scott card had a story about some proto Slavic speaking linguists, one of whom fell across a chasm of time, met people from a distant past ( fiction, magical thinking) But that’s just a tangent.
I’m getting my linguistic curiosity met with answers. one doesn’t realize how different they are, in part because during ussr, everyone also had to speak Russian as a language Franca.
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
It was the USSR, so they did ruZZiafication about as well as they did every thing else.
If for example, you were a Buryat, or a Chechen, average person, you only needed enough ruZZian, to claim your pension. And the local office would have a Buryat or Chechen to help you through the process, so even most ruZZians today, don’t speak ruZZian. Kinda like if the Austro-Hungarian Empire had survived to this day. Government services available in Austrian, or Hungarian, 2 vary different languages, spoken by the population by 35%, either or, but you only needed the language for government service, which was minimal. The other 40 languages, from Italian to Czech or even German, not so much.
TONYG
“Russia can’t produce these bombers anymore.” I’m old enough to remember when the Russia (as part of the Soviet Union) was an industrialized nation. Not anymore, I guess.
TONYG
@SuzieC: I think that Putin will bluster and make noise. He’s a fake tough guy, just like his employee Donald Trump.
TONYG
@YY_Sima Qian: I’m going to guess that having an unstable psychopath (Putin) as commander and chief tends to discourage independent thought and initiative. The safe thing for an officer to do is to do exactly what he is told — and nothing more. (Maybe the same thing is happening at the Pentagon under Trump and Hegseth.)
lowtechcyclist
@Timill:
A classic!
RA
@frosty: As an old person, I may be very wrong, but one of the first thoughts I had when I read about this operation is that this is an advantage (one of many) of having a younger president and younger government in general. This “out of the box” thinking wouldn’t occur to the cholesterol stuffed old people in Congress who think that bigger better bombers are what we need.
Doug R
@YY_Sima Qian:
I think they booby trapped the pagers to minimize collateral damage.
Doug R
@Gloria DryGarden: The late great Dennis Farina in “Snatch”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGuGzH3Ne5w
Bobby Thomson
Has anyone checked on Jake Sullivan?
Sally
@Bobby Thomson: Ha – I was thinking the same thing!