I’m not a scientist, but I’m glad lots of smarter people are because, otherwise, I’d be dead. Millions of us would be. I think most normal people know this and regard activities like finding new cures for diseases and discovering better ways to stay healthy as uncontroversial.
In addition to alleviating suffering, it turns out that funding health-related scientific research also generates prosperity more broadly! Check this out from the Harvard Gazette:
A new report from the nonprofit United for Medical Research (UMR) shows that every dollar of research funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) delivers $2.56 in economic activity, a multiplier effect that extends the agency’s impact as the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world.
But since sociopathic grifters and conspiracy kooks are currently running the country, science is under attack. Trump and lackeys like National Institutes of Health (NIH) Director Jay Bhattacharya and the ambulatory catcher’s mitt/disgrace to his family’s legacy whom Trump put in charge of Health & Human Services (HHS) are waging war on science.
Well, science is fighting back. Check out the Bethesda Declaration, which dropped this morning at the Stand Up for Science site.
Scores of NIH scientists go public to declare their dissent from Trump’s deep program cuts and upheaval at their agency.
— The Associated Press (@apnews.com) June 9, 2025 at 9:30 AM
Here’s an excerpt of the press release accompanying the declaration:
Washington, D.C. — Federal employees at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) have stood up for the health and safety of the American people and faithful stewardship of public resources, demanding HHS and NIH leadership uphold the mission of the NIH “to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability.” The Bethesda Declaration, addressed to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Secretary Kennedy, and members of Congress who oversee the NIH, raises concern over pressure to implement measures that harm the public. The document outlines how recently enacted policies interrupt ongoing clinical trials and patient care, public health monitoring, critical research, and early career scientist training programs.
NIH Staff say that because of termination of essential employees, politicization of research, and funding cuts they are unable to uphold their commitment to the NIH mission, the American people, and their ethical charge as scientists. Despite fears of retaliation, the Bethesda Declaration has been signed by over 300 NIH Staff including 93 staff who signed their full name.
“Standing up in this way is a risk, but I am much more worried about the risks of not speaking up. If we don’t speak up, we allow continued harm to research participants and public health in America and across the globe. If we don’t speak up, we allow our government to curtail free speech, a fundamental American value.” says Jenna Norton, PhD, MPH, NIDDK Program officer and one of the lead organizers of the Declaration.
Experts say the abrupt changes to the NIH threaten the ecosystem of the biomedical advancement. “The partnership between NIH and the academic community has made huge contributions to the almost every aspect of health of people across the US. Since January, the NIH staff have been forced to focus on issues other than the noble NIH mission. A large group of public servants have found the courage to speak out and say ‘Enough. Let us get back to our important work.’”, says Jeremy M. Berg, PhD, Former Director, National Institute of General Medical Sciences.
“It has been soul destroying to witness the politicization of research resulting in mass termination of grants that are in progress and doing well. It violated my Hippocratic oath,” says one NIH employee who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation.
Stand Up for Science is hosting the Bethesda Declaration and a letter of support. They are asking the public to join with them in supporting these federal employees by signing their open letter. Current supporters include Nobel Laureates, prominent scientists, politicians, activists, patients, and more.
According to Colette Delawalla, MA, MS, founder and executive director of Stand Up for Science, “These NIH employees have devoted their lives to civil service—they care deeply about the public. This is why they are courageously holding NIH and HHS leadership accountable. We are honored they have trusted us with this act of resistance and welcome any such future collaborations with other groups.”
At this historic moment, Stand Up for Science calls on the members of the Senate Appropriations subcommittee who will be soliciting testimony from NIH Director Dr. Jay Bhattacharya Tuesday at 10am to seek his commitment of support for NIH staff members signing the Bethesda Declaration.
Bhattacharya will meet with the Senate Appropriations subcommittee tomorrow. If any of your senators are on that committee, this would be a good day to call them and urge them to explain how duly appropriated funding is supposed to work to the NIH director.
No matter who your senators are, now would also be a good time to express your opposition to the budget proposal Trump and Republicans are trying to ram through Congress. It includes a 40% cut to NIH’s discretionary budget and other measures that would further devastate biomedical research in the U.S. and undermine scientific leadership worldwide.
The civil servants at NIH are standing up for science, and the rest of us need to do our part because if the people I know in real life are any indication, most are utterly clueless about what’s happening. It’s not just that the Trump admin wants to slash research funding so rich people don’t have to pay taxes — there’s a huge grift angle, as always with these corrupt frauds.
The open letter in support of the Bethesda Declaration calls out the fraudulent bullshit that is RFK Jr.’s MAHA boondoggle:
The current endeavor to Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) refers to some undefined time in the past. Since 1960, the death rate due to heart disease has been cut in half, going from 560 deaths per 100,000 people to approximately 230 deaths per 100,000 today. From 1960 to the present day, the five-year survival rate for childhood leukemia has increased nearly 10-fold, to over 90% for some forms. In 1960, the rate of measles infection was approximately 250 cases per 100,000 people compared with a near zero rate now (at least until recently). These are but a few of many examples. Certainly, much work remains to better treat disease and improve the health of Americans, such as addressing increased rates of obesity, diabetes, and opioid dependency. But, glamorizing a mythical past, while ignoring important progress made through biomedical research, does not enhance the health of American people.
It’s mindboggling that a grotesque old creep who takes his grandchildren swimming in raw sewage is in charge of HHS. It’s infuriating that a crank like Bhattacharya is sabotaging an organization that really is something Americans can be proud of. But here we are, and things are going to suck until we eject the thieves, kooks, sex pests and psychos who are currently running the agencies.
In the meantime, we can try to mitigate the damage by standing with the scientists who are doing heroic work on our behalf. Sign the letter to show support for the Bethesda Declaration. Call your federal representatives. Stand on the street with a sign next Saturday. It matters!
Open thread.
David_C
Thank you, Betty! This was truly a grass roots effort. Lots of planning went into this.
kindness
Yeay for the good guys and gals (the scientists)! I wonder how long it will take for some Trumpling to openly call for these folks firing. No doubt those thoughts have already been text shared among the Admin staff. Such is the times we live in, eh?
Belafon
I saw a stat over the weekend that said that half of all drugs approved by the FDA are based on discoveries at US universities.
David_C
Article published in Science.
https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-staff-and-biomedical-community-sound-alarm-about-agency-politicization-funding
There’s a link in the BD where people can sign and show their support.
A lot of the push came bureaucrats who know about the ins and outs of finding. One fear is that the barriers will prevent the allocation of appropriated funds, thus justifying the massive budget cuts that are proposed.
Old School
Off topic, Trump sending Marines to L.A. CNN says 500. Reuters says 700.
Redshift
@Belafon:
Which in turn are funded by government grants.
A great description I saw a while back said “We don’t have a system of university research subsidized by the federal government, we have a system of government research subsidized by universities.”
Ksmiami06
Paving over the Republican Party sounds like self defense.
laura
I just joined a medical study survey group. I spent the last 1/2 hour on the phone, going over the details of the study, how I will be selected randomly for one of two groups, the voluntary nature of the study, how my personal information will be protected, the duration 5 years of study and 6 additional years of collating the results and as soon as I hit the comment button, I’m putting the informed consent and the questionaire in the mail. I’m grateful to be of service to improve health, reduce disease and aid in early detection. It’s a privilege and it’s not lost on me that similar studies are being cancelled, or extinguished at the outset for no good reason other than satisfying the perverse pleasures of a very sick and dangerous cabinet member.
Jeffro
great reminder – thank you Betty!
just because MAGA’s billionaire puppeteers either don’t believe in science OR want it privatized so they can skim even more billions OR just want the rest of us to die from (unnecessary) illnesses and treatable conditions, doesn’t mean we have to take it lying down
suzanne
Signed. Couldn’t be happier to do so.
Insane happenings over on Xhitter. The Menswear Guy said he supported nonviolent protest, which enraged some leftists. So then Menswear Guy told his story, which is that he’s an undocumented refugee from Vietnam. Now Couchfucker is joking about deporting him.
Jeffro
sounds like it’s time to find out whether or not people intend to honor their oaths to the Constitution
also sounds like a good time to start having these anti-ICE protests outside of the White House, Bedminster, MAL, etc
laura
@suzanne: shimmering, vibrating with rage about Derek.
David_C
@Redshift: Not to mention that biomedical training at the PhD is largely supported by NIH funds, either yo the candidate directly (training grants) or through the PI’s grant funding.
Oh, this can also be an AMA.
Eyeroller
I firmly support biomedical research, both basic and translational, and am horrified by what’s happening to NIH (the largest funder of science overall in the US), but I’d like to point out that natural sciences are also under attack. Trump’s budget halves the National Science Foundation budget. The NSF funds a lot of the physical science and engineering pure research in this country. The MAGAts also want to zero out funding for climate and generally all environmental/ecological research completely. NASA’s science budget is also getting slashed or nearly zeroed, presumably for Mars, Bitches. NASA funds a lot of astrophysical and astronomical research as well as climatological research and remote sensing. There’s some concern that they want to militarize NASA.
In addition to the cuts, the remaining scientists at NIH will not be allowed to publish in the top journals and will have to have their conclusions vetted by non-scientist political appointees under the current plans. NIH has the most working scientists so the other agencies may be less impacted by this insanity, and the MAHA idiots’ motives are obvious, but it could happen elsewhere and in principle, politicized Program Managers at the other agencies could similarly take control of what and where results can be published from their grants at universities.
It’s just an all-out attack on science.
JoyceH
@Jeffro: As for LA, I have another protest suggestion. Everybody go home. And I mean everybody and I mean home. Not to face the national guard and not to work. Down your tools and go home. General strike.
Harrison Wesley
@Old School: Hegseth’s also authorized another 500 to storm NIH headquarters.
WTFGhost
Apparently, “AMERICA FIRST!” means AMERICA’S LOST at science. After all, remember, “second place is first loser,” as Republicans say.
It’s okay, though, as everyone knows, “AMERICA FIRST” doesn’t actually mean trying to put America first, or place America first, it means bellowing “AMERICA FIRST” over and over, and pretending you’re actually doing something.
I mean, let’s face it: Trump hates thinking, but he loves hurting people. No one ever really thought he intended to do anything good for America. They just thought he’d hurt the right people.
suzanne
@WTFGhost:
“America First” is just a way for dumb chuds to feel high-status. To put a Band-Aid on their injured pride.
David_C
@Harrison Wesley: Good luck with that! LOL. NIH offices are scattered all over MD and NC.
Lyrebird
Thanks Betty.
I did call my sen on the committee, who is absolutely on board already, so I put my thanks into the voicemail as well as some urgency.
<3 <3 <3
Honoring the memory of my kind, warm, and talented classmate Robin, born around 1969, life cut short before she could even get a learner’s permit because of a childhood leukemia they can cure now.
billcoop4
Who is the Menswear guy? And Derek?
The Other BC
suzanne
@billcoop4: Derek Guy is the Menswear Guy (aka dieworkwear) on Xhitter.
David_C
@Lyrebird: Thank you!
BTW, I’m one of the original “anonymous” signers.
Haroldo
Just signed the support letter.
JoyceH
In other news, the National Park Service that maintains the White House grounds has begun digging up the Rose Garden lawn, which Trump intends to pave over. There’s nothing that old monster won’t ruin.
Another Scott
Thanks for this.
Krugman reminds us that “my spending is your income, and vice versa”.
I think people generally know that taxes paid to the federal government are not simply set on fire, no matter what the RWNJs want people to think. The money circulates. The money buys stuff and gets sent out to other people in salaries, pension payments, etc., etc.
We can do all kinds of things with money. We can bury some of it in bottles in coal mines and let the “magic of the marketplace” encourage people to figure out what to do with it, or we can use some of it to pay people to solve societal problems that are pressing now and in the future. The latter usually has a better payoff.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
tobie
I know this is an obsession of mine, but I’ll say it anyway. When I moved to rural America, I got my first close look at small business in the home trades. I’ve never met people more convinced that what they do is the most valuable thing and without them the nation’s coffers would be empty. So I just looked into what Small Business Administration loans do for the economy and came across this study. It’s not good. Full disclosure: I’m not an economist so the study could well be problematic.
Steve LaBonne
I signed the Stand Up for Science letter, as a PhD holding member of the public. This insanity is basically national suicide given the extent to which the post- WWII prosperity and prominence of the US has depended on our scientific pre-eminence. My Northwestern professor sister has been fighting the good fight in every way she can.
Old School
@JoyceH:
But he’s doing it for women!
Miss Bianca
@Haroldo: me too.
Joy in FL
@David_C: Thank you for the link (comment 4). I signed as a member of the public who benefits from academic freedom and scientific excellence.
eclare
@Joy in FL:
Same here.
Baud
Repatriated
Could be that a lot of their loans go to areas in decline, and the decline far outpaces what good the loans can do.
In other words, without the intervention, things there could well be significantly worse.
Betty Cracker
@David_C: Do you think Bhattacharya or RFK Jr will retaliate against the signers?
Sandia Blanca
@JoyceH: or is he planning to bury a body there? Enquiring minds want to know . .
ETA that I have signed the letter of support as a member of the American public.
Old School
@Baud: RFK Jr. is “retiring” the members.
Seems like that could be fought to me.
”I can’t fire you, so I’m retiring you.”
Nukular Biskits
Oh, fuck. One of mine is: Cindy Hyde-Smith.
And she’s about as anti-science as you can get.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Jesus wept. They have “conflicts of interest” but the brainworm asshole antivax grifter doesn’t?
Lyrebird
KUDOS AND STRENGTH TO YOU!!!
Kelly
I’m very depressed about the science attacks. The way research adds to knowledge seems to be like compound interest. The benefits accelerate over time. So much institutional memory squandered.
rikyrah
Katherine Clark (@WhipKClark) posted at 1:11 PM on Mon, Jun 09, 2025:
What else was snuck into the GOP’s Big, Ugly Budget?
A provision barring health plans on the ACA marketplace from providing abortion coverage.
Let’s call it what it is: a back door to a national abortion ban.
It won’t matter if you’re in a red or blue state.
(https://x.com/WhipKClark/status/1932138536536244582?t=qVIVoH2Srdrm15x13U52pA&s=03)
oldgold
Worser:
“The health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., on Monday retired all 17 members of an advisory committee on immunization to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, arguing that the move would restore the public’s trust in vaccines.”
The C.D.C.’s vaccine advisers wield enormous influence. They carefully review data on vaccines, debate the evidence and vote on who should get the shots and when. Insurance companies are required to cover the vaccines recommended by the panel.
This is the latest in a series of moves Mr. Kennedy, a vaccine skeptic, has made to drastically reshape policy on immunizations. A vaccine panel more closely aligned with Mr. Kennedy’s views has the potential to significantly alter the immunizations recommended to Americans, including childhood vaccinations.” NYT
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Betty Cracker:
I believe the correct answer to that is
“Does a bear shit in the woods?”
WTFGhost
@Another Scott: Yes – the reason Scrooge was despised was not merely that he was a moneylender – though no one liked the moneylender of those days! – but that he was also a miser. He was trying to impoverish people, and, he wouldn’t even spend the money he took from them, putting it into circulation. The world got poorer around him, because of him.
Interesting fact: that’s exactly what Trump is trying to do, cut spending, by taking away from people, leaving everyone vastly poorer, because Trump is essentially lighting money on fire with a multi-trillion dollar tax cut, at the very time when any “conservative” would be saying “we should raise taxes, and reduce the deficit.”
I mean, that’s the thing, right? You want to spend money, and increase the deficit, if necessary, during a recession. That puts more money in circulation. Then, when times are good (and Biden left a *great* economy, before Trump started crapping all over) you increase taxes, to pay down debt, so you can both increase spending, and cut taxes, when the next recession hits, for a double whammy.
Instead, Trump starts creating a recession by massively cutting spending, destroying US tourism, and scaring every business that can’t afford to depend on TACO Donnie Boy to be the coward he always is. And he’s cutting taxes, to boot, which means we’ll see a massive ballooning of the federal debt.
David_C
@Betty Cracker: Time will tell if there’s any retaliation. Civil servants are supposed to be protected. It would also be a bad look. Academic FREEDOM!
@Lyrebird: Thank you!
And thanks to the public signers.
The ACIP purge isn’t unexpected.
WTFGhost
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’ve known some polar bears who’d ask you outside to discuss said rumor, but, none of them are present, so I guess it’s safe to answer “assuming they live in the woods, yes…”.
(Seriously, that’s safest. You never know if a polar bear is hiding on the white duvet. They’re sneaky!)
Jay
Trump deploying the National Guard for ICE protests but not for the January 6th insurrection sounds about white.
Math Guy
Signed.
Bupalos
@Jeffro: Boy would that dumb military parade be a good target for peaceful protest. I mean, apparently it has to travel at no more than a slow walk, because otherwise the tanks rip up the streets, and it has to take an exact, steel-reinforced path laid out in advance. It’s perfect for a crowd to just get in front of and force to stop. And if by some insanity the tanks kept moving, you just climb up on them and ride to the Whitehouse with your “no kings” sign.
Bill Arnold
In case it’s not clear, this Bethesda Declaration is a direct mirroring of the grotesque and homicidal Great Barrington Declaration authored and signed by Jay Bhattacharya and a couple of others. (It was about the COVID response.)
(“Signed by Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford, Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University,”)
The authors should have been retired, forcefully if necessary, and deprived of any further voice re public health.
japa21
Coincidentally, I just finished Tom Levenson’s newest opus today. If you haven’t read, get it. It is excellent reading.
Anyway, the last couple pages talk about what we (global we) need to do to make further strides in the world of science, particularly medicine, specifically dealing with bacteria and viruses.
Let’s just say, take everything he says we need to do, figure out what the diametrically opposed option would be, and that is what this administration is doing.
Omnes Omnibus
Huerta was just released!
japa21
@Jay: Oh, they were deployed, pretty much after it was over and were not allowed any weapons.
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus:
Some good news for the day.
Bupalos
I know national entertainment journalism is in a sad state, but there are some real superstars that understand what journalism actually is doing some GREAT work. The recent thing on Curtis Yarvin is one, I just sucked in another one from NYTaudio on Trump’s Greenland obsession. People going places, finding out facts, telling you about them. It’s so much more powerful and salutary than all the opinion shit, and more important by far than all the headlines in the paper getting tilted back in the direction we want.
NYT is actually still one of the major centers of important journalism and this whole “defund” movement hasn’t digested the reality of where we are right now, and how much worse it will be when NYT goes under.
Do NYT audio, you won’t be sorry.
lowtechcyclist
@Steve LaBonne:
Same here.
Jay
bluefoot
@Baud: I just saw that. He’s essentially disbanding the ACIP by firing all its members. I am appalled. This is so wrong.
I don’t know if anyone here has listened in on any of the FDA Advisory Committee meetings but they can be fascinating. For new drugs/vaccines, FDA members present, as do the companies/entities seeking approval. Members of of the public also comment (typically patients, caregivers, etc), then the committee discusses and votes on specific questions to generate a recommendation. I listened in on the first Moderna mRNA vaccine ACIP meeting. It was amazing to see the data presented. For those interested, the materials and pre-reads are available to the public ahead of the meeting and the recordings of the meetings are public. Or at least they used to be. I don’t know what the future will look like.
Eyeroller
@WTFGhost: Scrooge was mainly some kind of commodities broker/jobber (very vaguely described) who screwed over his counterparties. That’s why he was always at the Exchange and why everybody there hated him. He lent money on the side, apparently with pretty harsh terms, though there’s more of that in the novella than in most of the dramatizations. The refusal to participate in social customs like paying help decently, tipping buskers, etc. was another negative against him.
I always liked the George C. Scott dramatization even though it wasn’t all that faithful to the novella, but because George played him pretty straight as a bog-standard millionaire Republican type and not some intrinsically evil person. His objection to Christmas as a “humbug” meant it was a con, intended to make him spend money.
zhena gogolia
@Jay: Every time I go into a screaming tantrum about something, when I simmer down we look at each other and say, “If Harris were president, I wouldn’t be bothered by anything.”
Jay
Chief Oshkosh
@JoyceH: A general strike sounds like the best solution to me, too.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
Is Trump unpopular enough for that to happen?
zhena gogolia
I hope there’ll be a front page post for Sly Stone.
zhena gogolia
Sly Stone is dead and DJT is alive.
Jay
Jeffro
@JoyceH: love it, seriously
Chief Oshkosh
@tobie: On the off chance that nobody already mentioned this, correlation is not causation. It may well be that SBA loans get made in areas that are already struggling and heading down a slope that would be even steeper if it weren’t for the loans.
ETA: what Repatriated at 34 said.
JGreen
@zhena gogolia: The wrong people keep dying.
Jackie
@JoyceH:
I read awhile back, FFOTUS intends to replicate MAL’s patio or terrace.
Future presidents get the enjoyment of undoing all the MAL reminders shoved in their faces.
Bill Arnold
@Kelly:
There is a camp in the administration (the techbro contingent) which believes that it is critical for US taxpayers to pay for the USA to win the AI race towards AGI (Artificial General Intelligence). They believe that the USA’s machine god slave (their fascist machine god slave, actually, but … details) will do all the future science for us, for cheap, and faster and better.
So cutting all the science funding is no big deal. They will order (Fascist) Machine God to do it for us, and it will Obey. Like in all the science fiction novels and movies.
I am not exaggerating, at least not in broad outline.
Bill Arnold
@Jay:
For LA in the past 6 months. Capitalization mine. (Seen shorter on bsky):
Fire and ICE (Robert Frost, 1920)
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
Baud
@Bill Arnold:
That’s actually a sensible plan if you don’t care about accuracy.
Jay
https://documentedny.com/2025/06/09/fake-immigration-courts-advantage-immigrants-desperate-for-answers/
Alce _e_ardillo
@Betty Cracker: Is the Pope Catholic? And an American!
The signatories probably understand that they have put a giant bullseye on their collective backs. Reading the document, I found it to be informative, sober and possibly a little dry. It wasn’t the Declaration of Independence, or The Barmen Declaration, but it doesn’t need to be.
Kelly
@Bill Arnold: I agree with you. Also these are people used to making lots of bets and having one pay off so big it makes up for all losses. Most science unfolds nature a little at a time like monthly deposits to savings. The best science reveals new questions every time you you unfold a mystery.
Marc
That’s the way I kind of see their thinking, too, but of course nothing their machines discover will be available to anyone who can’t pay. However, the real purpose of the Fascist Machine God is to make pronouncements that you (meaning those of us not in the rich boy club) must obey or there will be serious consequences. Machine God is always right, completely fair and unbiased, your request for an appeal has been noted and rejected.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Depends. If the other unions side with SIEU, which is a big if, popularity won’t be the issue.
David_C
@bluefoot:
LOL – I helped lead the NIH’s part of an AdComm meeting 12 years ago. Behind the scenes, of course. I have stories about EndNote deciding to act up at midnight as I was about to send our Briefing Book to the publishers. It was a totally draining experience. I had to wrangle an academic scientist into sticking to the talking points on his slides and anticipate every question I would imagine the AdComm asking. We were not supposed to show any emotion, even when the vote was overwhelmingly in our favor.
Jay
different-church-lady
None of this shit gonna stop until he’s deposed or dead.
David_C
@Alce _e_ardillo: The dryness is by design. In bureaucratic terms, the points are like daggers. It’s kind of the job. There were also Comms people who are on the RIF/not-RIF list. They know their stuff.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Bill Cassidy, goddamned fool.
Matt McIrvin
@WTFGhost:
That’s Keynesianism, which today’s “conservatives” all learned at their mother’s knee to be a ridiculous superstition driving our economy toward certain doom.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Time for a shadow CDC.
Jay
Alce _e_ardillo
@David_C: That was in no way a criticism. They knew their task and did it.
Old School
@zhena gogolia:
I find Mice Elf saddened by that.
Matt McIrvin
@WTFGhost: “America First” means Fortress America–putting up a wall around everything. Scientists have always been suspect according to such people because science is such a trans-national institution. It killed post-WWII conservatives that they had to depend on these guys to develop war weapons like the atomic bomb. They could classify most of the work and some of them were ideologically reliable guys like Teller, but too many of them weren’t, and kept talking to foreigners and ended up on political crusades that gave the McCarthyites hives.
Replacing them all with some obedient robot (which, despite being completely obedient, will somehow produce competent science) is the dream. It’s an incoherent dream, but it seems like a way out.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
You are just going to have to rely on other nations CDC’s, (I would not recommend the British one) and hope that vaccines are still available in the USA.
Ohio Mom
@different-church-lady: I am guessing the medical sector will be looking to Canada or European countries for news, for example, the latest on new COVID variants. They must already track what their colleagues in other countries are finding out, they may ramp it up.
I don’t expect American science to bounce back, not in my lifetime.
different-church-lady
@Jay:
That’s ridiculous: we’d be talking about how Harris sold us out.
WTFGhost
@Eyeroller: I read an economic analysis in which the author claimed “moneylender and miser” and, not having read the original Dickens, I went with what I knew :-).
And it was a good analysis: a no-interest loan is a wash, but an interest bearing loan is a loss to one person, and, if the interest is paid to a miser, then the entire local community has lost that interest payment; if the miser spends the interest, the money circulates, and might even be partially recaptured by the person who lost it.
I’m working my way through David Copperfield right now. You know what sucks about being me? I should have been able to devour that effing book in a single night, but it’s taken me *months*. Pain scrambles my brain. But it’s interesting, there’s a bit about commodities brokers, and it does sound like there are places where a wealthy broker can cram down losses on desperate people who might otherwise do better, if they dared risk waiting a bit longer. And, again, forcing one person to realize a loss (because they fear the loss will be greater tomorrow/next week), when you’re a spendthrift, isn’t as big a deal, because the money goes back in circulation – maybe the crammed-upon broker will even recover some! But when it goes to a miser, it leaves the broker in worse condition, and doesn’t benefit the community.
I remember the “paradox of thrift” Krugman talked about sometimes, and I realized that the same *name* could apply to another idea. E.g., I used to make a decent wage, low six figures (and the first of those six figures was a “1”), and if I saved every penny, I didn’t do as much good as if I spent a lot of money (while still saving some). If everyone is thrifty, businesses don’t thrive. It’s better for society if I let, e.g., even McDonalds buy the eggs and sausage for my breakfast, because that puts money in circulation, rather than just in a bank, where it won’t move as quickly through people’s hands. Better still if I could stop at a diner, and tip well.
Somehow, not even a perceived fiscal responsibility to my fellow economic actors could get me the time and energy to hit a nice diner for breakfast, even one day a work-week, which should have been a *big* clue that I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Seriously: although it’s harder, slower, and more error-prone, for me to make my own breakfast, I still did so, because i couldn’t get it together to get to a diner in time to go to work. It coulda been ADHD if I was just disorganized, but when everything hurts, everything is exhausting, and everything is so difficult, it feels like the entire world exists just to piss one off, *that* is CFS, not ADHD, most likely.
Matt McIrvin
@Jay: I expect people to have to smuggle vaccines illegally into the US.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
I’ve seen people talk about that now.
Old School
@different-church-lady: Every press conference would be about how Harris covered up Biden’s senility.
The Republicans would be impeaching her.
Jay
@Matt McIrvin:
I doubt that smuggled illegal vaccines will replace opioids and stimulants as a profitable business model in the USA.
I think Senator Joni Earnst laid out the ReThugs plan for the future quite well.
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: SUCH WONDERFUL NEWS!!!
Jay
@Jackie:
He is still being criminally charged.
Lawfare writ large.
Sure Lurkalot
Hulu subscribers and Sly lovers, you will not regret watching Questlove’s documentary, it is fabulous.
https://press.hulu.com/shows/sly-lives-aka-the-burden-of-black-genius/
RIP, Sly Stone, you were a true visionary.
Jay
Eyeroller
@Matt McIrvin: The real issue is that if they are not recommended, most insurance won’t pay for them. I’m over 65 and not yet on Medicare so I assume I can still get it for free, but am not fully confident about that
And I’m concerned about whether I can get a flu vaccine in October since RFKjr disbanded the flu advisory panel also. And I was really hoping for the combo shot since I have been getting both, one in each arm, on the same day, and I’d heard the combo was more effective than either alone, but Moderna withdrew the application for that.
Baud
@Jay:
Quiet quitting.
David_C
@Alce _e_ardillo: No problem – I took it as an observation. :-)
One of the things that drives bureaucrats up a wall is that Congresscritters don’t know the bureaucracy as well as the insiders do, so they cannot follow up some of the vacuous answers from their often well-prepared questions. We live in this world and know the difference between stated intentions and practice.
Jackie
Per RawStory:
The narrowly divided House of Representatives is about to get even tighter.
Rep Mark Green (R-TN), chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said in a statement Monday afternoon that he notified House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) he plans to resign from Congress as soon as the House votes again on the reconciliation package.
Apparently he’s leaving for a private sector job “he couldn’t pass up.”
Eyeroller
@WTFGhost: I’m not an economist but it sounds like what you are talking about is “velocity of money” which is one of their main postulates. It’s why billionaires are bad even if they spend It on super yachts–they tie up money that cannot be spent even if they try.
Raoul Paste
@Ohio Mom: “ I don’t expect American science to bounce back…”
One can’t decimate science funding and higher education for four years, and have an advanced country. Our laboratories will gather dust, and other countries will leap frog us.
We are handing the world to China and Europe. This is what ignorance and corruption does to a society. I’m at a total loss here.
Scout211
I’m curious, why not sign up for Medicare if you are over 65?
Eyeroller
@Bill Arnold: Today I saw, but did not yet read, about some CS type whose goal is to eliminate hallucinations from AI. And I thought, well, he’d better come up with different models because hallucinations are intrinsic to the models we currently have.
Jay
Jay
@Baud:
I guess it’s become a “thing” again,…………….
Eyeroller
@Scout211: I’m still employed full time. I get an affidavit each year from my employer (a university) that I have an employee plan. It apparently is a feature of the ACA that this is allowed. Before the ACA, employees didn’t have to retire but they had to go on Medicare, though part B would be covered by the university.
Scout211
@Eyeroller: Oh, okay. I didn’t know the rules changed. My husband taught at his university until 71 but they required him to sign up for Medicare at 65 and the university insurance was then the secondary insurance. I guess that was before the rules changed.
trollhattan
@Eyeroller: @Scout211:
Right. Even if working still, sign up for Medicare Part A. Putting it off adds price penalties the longer you wait. (You’re signed up automatically if drawing Social Security.)
Part A is hospitalization only and there’s no premium.
https://www.ssa.gov/medicare/plan/when-to-sign-up
Eyeroller
@trollhattan: HR has said I need to approach them 3-4 months before I plan to retire and this is one of the reasons. You’ll note it says I have a limited time and I must sign up while still working or (it seems, if I’m reading it correctly) within 8 months of retirement. I have asked HR about this and they say I’m fine as long as I’m working, so am not worried right now. It appears it would be best to sign up while still working.
I would also need to contact SSA which I have not done. I could be eligible for my late husband’s instead of mine, but that may not be much more anyway.
Scout211
@Jay: And the NG troops are now sleeping on the floor.
Wildly Underprepared: National Guard troops seen sleeping on floors in exclusive photos
(SF Chronicle web archive version)
bold added
ColoradoGuy
@Raoul Paste: Putin is behind this for sure. He is seething with rage that somehow the CIA “broke up” the USSR in the early Nineties, and he is determined to do the same to the USA … break it up into several smaller pieces, and permanently remove it from the world stage. Meanwhile, Russia takes back all of Eastern Europe, and dominates the rest. If a million Russians and Ukrainians die, that’s a price he’s willing to pay.
Same for Trump, Stephen Miller, and techbros. They would be quite happy to rule over the smoking ruins … servants would be cheaper, after all. Just as long as there is plenty of fuel for their private jets and servants to staff their houses.
Marc
@Eyeroller: Be careful, though, I followed HR advice and applied for Part B a few days more than three months ahead of time. That caused them to predate coverage to the beginning of that month. Ended up paying for 4 months of Part B I didn’t need.
bluefoot
@David_C: I am a nerd, it’s true. I feel you on wrangling academic scientists – it often feels like they haven’t thought through what they are trying to do/communicate so you have to keep trying to lead them to water by suggestions or asking questions. They usually don’t listen if you tell them what to do.
The AdComms over the last few years for neurodegenerative disease drug approvals have been super interesting IMO. What’s acceptable to demonstrate efficacy, whether the healthcare infrastructure can support requirements for imaging, etc.
Jay
Jackie
@Scout211: MSNBC is reporting Trump is sending ANOTHER 2K NG to LA, per Gov Newsom.😡
Eyeroller
@Marc: I have to apply for all of it, not just Part B. I’ll contact Benefits again tomorrow to ask about this, just for confirmation. Part B will be covered (with low premiums) by the state retirement system. It’s Part A I have to worry about.
japa21
@Eyeroller: Medicare Part A is for anybody 65 or over, who has paid into Medicare via withholding for 10 years. You don’t have to be on SS to qualify
Bill Arnold
@Eyeroller:
A lot of researchers are working on this, and on many different approaches. The approaches will generally be more computationally expensive. Humans bullshit too, so one goal will be to outperform careful humans.
I hate bullshit, so generally don’t trust even the top of the crop current AI systems, except somethings for things like digesting texts into a summary.
Jay
What a load of bullshit,
KKKops rioting again.
Vid makes it plain.
Jay
Powerful vid.
Marc
And that’s the thing, not only can they not be 100% accurate representations of the actual data, they’ve also been trained on the same amount of bullshit the rest of us read (and often quickly reject) on a day to day basis.
That’s what makes certain problems, like generating 10 or 20 statements in the context of a larger program, actually workable. You can set things up to run the code and tests, if it fails, continue feeding the errors and code back into the model, until it stops failing. Sadly, that only works when there are reasonable ways to accurately determine “right” or “wrong” generated answers.
Old School
@Jay: Here’s the link to that video.
https://bsky.app/profile/parickards.bsky.social/post/3lr6out2pdc2s
Marc
@Eyeroller: japa21 is right, sign up for Part A the moment you turn 65, it costs nothing. You do pay for Part B. I’m just saying don’t apply months ahead of time online (or possibly by mail). If you don’t do it by phone or in-person, or you’ll be paying for it from the beginning of the month it’s approved. For me, online application was approved in 4 business days. I expected it to take months based on HR warnings.
David_C
@bluefoot: :-) Thank you for triggering some memories! This speaks to the seriousness of what we all do.