I somehow missed this…but what a great interview. What a great young man.
I’m just back from LA – I have thoughts, but no energy to put them together. But I have said to others that this summer could make 1968 look like a party.
This is the spirit of Los Angeles.
This is California.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
#FreeDavidEndRaids
— California Fast Food Workers Union (@cafastfoodunion.bsky.social) June 9, 2025 at 2:43 PM
Someone suggested everyone should carry American Flags so when the US military, etc, attack them, the media, as stupid as they are, gets the point.
#California
— 5nark Twain (@5narktwain.bsky.social) June 10, 2025 at 8:17 AM
Also, I spent some time with young folks this past month as they graduated; it was eye-opening, somewhat inspiring, and a little concerning. Again – I have the intention of sharing that, too. Just need the brain cells/energy to do that.
This is an open thread
hoytwillrise
There is no right & wrong way to hold a demonstration. There’s no manual. If people don’t want other people to carry Mexican flags then they should go to the demonstration & tell them so; but to sit on the sidelines & tell others how to do it is just idiotic.
TaMara
@hoytwillrise: Deleted as the commenter has been given a timeout by Cole.
Jeffro
Great interview – thanks TaMara!
TaMara
@Jeffro: ❤️
hoytwillrise
@TaMara: It’s in this thread & others, but thank you for showing your inner bitch to someone else, that’s very helpful.
edit: Your comments earned you a 7-day timeout.
TaMara
@hoytwillrise:
Feel free to stay the fuck out of my posts going forward.Until I get paid to put up with them, trolls will be dragged.Okay folks, with Cole’s permission, this commenter has been banned. No one gets to call me at bitch. Have your differences will me, call me out on whatever. But I won’t put up with that.
Tell me I’m wrong, tell me I’ve gone too far in a comment. But let’s leave the B and C words out of it – for everyone.
Mcat
TaMara, thanks so much for this post. Please don’t drop out. I’ve always enjoyed your posts. People are so very on edge right now. I live in California in the SF Bay Area and I love it so much. California is such a great place. Of course, nothing is perfect but it’s a great state.
I wish everyone peace and courage in this very stressful time.
mali muso
Glad to have you back, TaMara, and thank you for the interview! I look forward to hearing more about your experience in LA and your gleanings from the youths.
Nancy
I love the Snark Twain statement.
It covers every bit that our president and his minders and his minions hate.
Charles Pierce quoted Sly and the Family Stone. Their words that could have been written today;
He was the voice of optimism in a pessimistic time. He was the voice of hope at a time of despair. He told us we could make it if we tried because everybody was a star. He warned us that the beat was nitty gritty, and that the sound was in our cities, too. In 1969, he didn’t necessarily mean the sound of music. He was the voice of American promise at a time when America was reneging from the very top. And, at the last, he gave us a bit of wisdom to dance to. Listen up, youngsters, out there in the street at another perilous time
Stand, they will try to make you crawl
And they know what you’re sayin’ makes sense at all
Stand, don’t you know that you are free
Well, at least in your mind if you want to be
As a genuine old, this brought tears to my eyes. See you at No Kings where we can stand.
Harrison Wesley
I just saw a news item reporting the LA military adventure is going to cost something like 130 million dollars. Seems the government has plenty to piss away on dangerous spectacles.
Baud
@TaMara:
Don’t mention Betty Cracker in your threads. Got it!
TaMara
@Baud: Thanks, I needed a giggle
TaMara
@TaMara: Of course, in the loving way that it is used here, we are all still Fuckers.
WhatsMyNym
@Harrison Wesley: And they couldn’t even put up the cash for a motel for the National Guard to stay in.
Omnes Omnibus
I think everyone should be festooned with as much classic patriotic shit as they can be. Will it stop cops or ICE from attacking them? Probably not. Will it make it look like they are attacking patriotic citizens on TV. Much more likely.
Furthermore, the right does own those symbols. It’s our fucking country. We are the one trying advance the ideas in our founding documents, not the right. Wave a fucking flag.
ETA: Tamara, fuck the haters.
Ohio Mom
@TaMara: I have a smallish American flag — about 20” by 12” I’m guessing — I bring to all the protest demonstrations I go to.
Early in Trump’s first term, I was protesting Mike Pence’s visit to a nearby machine shop. He was pushing that round of tax cuts, obviously the shop owner was a big MAGA.
Anyway, the counter-protesters across the street all had flags and my (unspoken) reaction was, “You guys are idiots and will be the ruination of this country and you don’t own patriotism or the flag.”
And so I was inspired to start bringing a flag.
ETA: I see Omnes got here first. In fewer words.
TaMara
@Nancy: For you
dc
Trolls should be banned from blogs and public life. This banning was one small step for human kind.
John Cole
I have read this post three times and have no idea what the fuck he was mad about.
zhena gogolia
@TaMara: I’m always so happy to see your posts! I’m looking forward to listening to the interview. I loved the clip from California. You are a ray of sunlight!
bbleh
I ALWAYS take a US flag to protests. (And looking like a MAGAt may actually help.)
The MAGAts have tried to “own” the flag. They don’t.
zhena gogolia
@TaMara: I also spent a lot of time with graduating youths this spring, so I’m interested to hear your impressions.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole: Life, man. Just life.
zhena gogolia
@TaMara: Thanks! I loved him so much. One of my favorite memories from my (tough, inner-city) high school is one day when everyone just spontaneously started singing “Dance to the Music,” with percussion on desks, etc., and the teacher, who was a cool young Vietnam vet, just waited patiently for us to finish and then started the discussion of King Lear.
bbleh
@John Cole: In my experience, some people are just ANGRY, at the moment or a lot of the time, and what happens to set them off is a mystery. I would guess it was nothing in particular in the post, and what one may infer about the now-erased comment suggests the poster was just lashing out at whomever was at hand.
Sitting in a corner for a while usually helps.
hotshoe
@Harrison Wesley:
Well, they’re not spending those millions on getting the Guard places to sleep — not even water and port-a-potties — the Guard was deployed without any plan and without any logistical support.
Seems like a stupid way to convince a volunteer army to be on the side of the government and to attack their civilian neighbors and friends. Give them weapons but don’t give them shelter or food in the midst of the still-richest nation on Earth.
Remember, the Marines are all volunteers, too. They can’t desert. But they can resist illegal orders.
Spending millions on moving tanks around cities doesn’t win.
TaMara
@zhena gogolia: Love to hear your thoughts, too. Once jet lag has passed and brain kicks back in I’ll try and put something together
zhena gogolia
@bbleh: I don’t know — it seems that whenever TaMara posts something, there is an obnoxious comment within the first 1-3 posts. I can’t figure it out. It doesn’t seem to happen as often to other FP’s.
Layer8Problem
Keep ’em flying TaMara!
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Happened to me just last week.
UncleEbeneezer
The spirit of the tweet is fine but I gotta say “wildfire of change” is a pretty tactless choice of words given recent history of the Eaton Canyon and Palisades fires and the 10’s of thousands of victims, destroyed communities etc. It would be like using a flood metaphor after Katrina.
Montanareddog
I didn’t see the post but I saw the nym and do not recognise it. Banning offensive drive-by trolls immediately is fine with me (and I am sure with others too).
TaMara
@UncleEbeneezer: Funny, I interpreted it as, the wildfires tried to destroy us, but here we are.
But that may be because of all the signs I saw around LA in that regard.
I do take your point, however.
Omnes Omnibus
@TaMara: Wildfire is also a terrible song from the ‘70s that we should never speak of again.
mrmoshpotato
@Omnes Omnibus: You just turned on the bat signal for NotMax.
Ruckus
@bbleh:
I was, long ago a mental health counselor.
One of the things that sets off a lot of people, men seemingly more than women is that they are supposed to be defiant, stand out, strong. But many males have, since likely forever, do not fit in that strong – as in able to beat the hell out of anyone gang – let alone wanting to. I’d bet mainly because they see no need for that. But the other side of the wall is the need to dominate everyone else. Which very often they don’t do. Or someone who never was nor ever will be a pompous, arrogant asshole, grows up to be smart, talented in something which they end up excelling in and become, from reasonably well off to extremely well off. IOW they grew up reasonably, rationally, normally, without pompous arrogance.
oldgold
Just now from Trump:
“And we’re going to be celebrating big on Saturday,” he told reporters on Tuesday. “And if there’s any protesters wants to come out, they will be met with very big force. By the way, for those people that want a protest, they’re going to be met with very big force.”
Notice that he does not differentiate between peaceful and violent protesters.
Elizabelle
@oldgold: He is a moron. Example # ____. Who can keep count?
Belafon
@John Cole: Criticism. They were mad and criticizing people over their criticism. Specifically, I think they took:
as another attack on the person waving the Mexican flag, because that is a topic of discussion.
I get that criticizing protesters for how they do their protesting is a touchy subject, but we’re Democrats. We’d criticize our fellow members over how they put their mustard on a hotdog. We can disagree without name calling.
pieceofpeace
Good for you, TaMara, for shutting this person down and out, with Cole’s help.
Some people will get abusive for attention or for some self-perceived power play. They’re weak fools, cowardly, so we must call them out in whatever way presents itself.
Nice to see you again….
UncleEbeneezer
@TaMara: Not mad at all, it just jumped out to me because I was up at 4 am, unable to sleep, still thinking about the fires. And I’m in a couple groups of fire victims so it’s always fresh on my mind. Any other force of nature (except wind) would’ve been a much better choice. But no biggie.
CaseyL
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hey! I liked that song!
I agree that everyone is on edge; I don’t agree that lashing out is a good coping mechanism.
I’ve been in Florida the last couple of weeks, as temporary caregiver to my Aunt, who has become (to her extreme rage) a frail elderly person. She had a bad fall, was in hospital/rehab for about 6 weeks, and I’m here bc she isn’t up to fully independent living. Her son who lives here, has done his considerable best, but needed to focus on his wife who had hip replacement surgery last week. Enter me, as live-in help for a couple of weeks.
I was, and am, sincerely sympathetic to her woe. I was, and am, sincerely devoted to her and being helpful. (Becoming old and infirm is something I think about quite a bit, esp. since I don’t have any children.)
But two weeks of “Oh, I am useless and want to die”? Where every conversation with anyone and everyone inevitably leads back to how miserable she is and she wants to be dead? I think I reached my limit today – ironically, after she had another fall (no major injuries) – and realized she is having an ongoing self-pity party.
And I think that’s what no small amount of the aimless rage is about, too. My Aunt’s difficulties are real, her despondency is real, but she is indulging it and wringing every bit of sympathy and indulgence from her friends and family that she can, rather than take true and difficult stock of what gives her life meaning and how she can salvage some of that.
Our country’s peril is real, and our rage about that is real, but too many people are using that as an excuse to be assholes to one another.
Omnes Omnibus
@Belafon: That’s verging into “Why do you hate waffles” territory.
Nancy
@TaMara: Thank you.
Betty Cracker probably likes it, too
Hope that brought another giggle.
cain
@bbleh:
They try to own any symbol that has any kind of power of community behind it. If they could they’d take over the 2SLBGT+.
They are always the greatest americans, the biggest flag worshippers, the biggest christians. Just me me me. They can go fuck themselves.
But stealing of symbolism is what they do.
Like the fucking Nazis stole the Hindu swastika symbol.
Ruckus
@hotshoe:
You’d expect any different from shitforbrains?
He has the capacity to think about one person and NO ONE else. Not his wife or kids or the people who he gets paid rather well to “work” for. He is a selfish, narcissistic jackass.
Trollhattan
Deficits don’t matter: Donny’s revenge tour edition.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
That example number is bigger than the number of dollars he has.
And. Who wants to keep count? Are there that many fingers and toes in the world, or even this country?
Elizabelle
@CaseyL: Great comment. And good luck with your aunt.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trollhattan: This means that some units are going have training exercises canceled and reduce actual military readiness. Assholes.
Baud
@Belafon:
Or losing the mustard altogether.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Yes, I remember.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Funny how all this military activations and costs were never done for an actual insurrection in the country’s capitol city and capitol building.
This is my shocked face.
chemiclord
@John Cole:
It feels like a lot of people have learned the wrong lesson from Trump’s rise, and have decided the path forward is to be angry and hateful and just an all around asshat.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I kind of liked that song.
JCJ
@Omnes Omnibus: She ran calling Wiiiildfire…
Spanky
@Trollhattan: $53,600 per NG/Marine, and they don’t even get a shitter for that price? I’d talk to the manager like a Karen.
O. Felix Culpa
@JCJ: That, my friend, is deserving of a time out. ;)
George
@Mcat:
You make a great point with your comment about everyone being on edge. That is what FFOTUS et al. are trying to achieve–a sort of The Monsters are Due on Maple Street scenario in which there is so much chaos and paranoia that social connections, and society itself, break down.
Panicky and paranoid people are the most easily manipulated. The MAGA cult is founded on that sort of thing–not a promise of prosperity for all, but a pledge to destroy immigrants, intellects, non-Christians, diverse people, and so forth, so that even though MAGA adherents will be worse off than they were with Biden in the White House, at least they will be better off than everyone who has been destroyed.
Realizing that being on edge is how MAGA/FFOTUS want us to feel has, strangely, helped me cope because I understand it is all contrived.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: @JCJ: You bastards!
oldgold
The song I have been thinking about the last few days is ‘For What It’s Worth’ by Buffalo Springfield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
comrade scotts agenda of rage
The story behind the song:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/story-behind-the-song/2019/06/28/wildfire-michael-martin-murphey-story-behind-song-horse-cowboy-country-music/1570277001/
And far more entertaining, a blog post from 2008 that goes thru “Blatantly Bad Songs from the 70s” and this one’s on the list. The comments are fun:
https://wrekehavoc.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/blatantly-bad-70s-songs-wildfire-michael-murphy/
Bupalos
Yeah I think the optics of most of the vids seeming to have only Mexican flags is a big negative. I get wanting to represent ethnic solidarity and strength when it’s essentially an ethnic attack. And I know that’s practically a “local” flag in LA. But I’m a little surprised that folks who have a political will to protest don’t have a clearer political sense about this. It’s not a problem that the Mexican flag is there, complicated but not a problem. But I think it is a problem that it seems to be the only one.
I don’t think it has to be just the American flag added in there either, I think it might be good to throw in a maple leaf or two. I think it’s great if it looks like a protest for openness and international cooperation, set against this cruelty. I think it’s a problem if it looks like all these folks marching and occasionally getting violent under a single foreign flag, when Trump is desperately trying to do this “invaders” thing.
zhena gogolia
@George: This is close to how I’m feeling. I noticed that the NYT headlines now almost all include the word “threat,” with reference to the regime’s plans. They want us to feel scared all the time. Of course we do feel scared. But I’m trying to keep anger rather than fear at the top of my emotions, and also to do things for the people I’m in direct contact with, which always makes me feel better.
Matt McIrvin
@TaMara: I don’t know what happened but I recognized that nym as a troll who’s caused trouble here before.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: About 6 months after I started working at the Orange, I was walking though one of our plumbing aisles and an ASM(Assistant Store Manager) was going though the bay trying to organize it; it was a mess and he was pissed. Donna Summer’s MacArthur Park was playing, the ASM says I hate this song. I reply that it could be worse, he snaps, WHAT! I say, “A Wonderful Christmastime”, he responds that it’s not Christmas yet. I say, OK, Wildfire, and walk on. Later that day, we’re walking in opposite directions past the cash registers and Wildfire is playing, as I pass, I just say Wildfire. As I was leaving for the day, he was at the door and said, goodnight Wildfire. It became my nickname with him.
Trollhattan
@Bupalos:
Love the California flag myself. It has a fuckin’ bear. Also the word Republic but mostly the fuckin’ bear. “Don’t tread on me” I might bite? A bear will fuckin’ eat you.
jackmac
I lived through the Summer of ’68 as a 13-year-old in Chicago, the epicenter of it all. History may not necessarily repeat but it rhymes. There’s no racial component as in 1968 with the killings of Dr. Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy. But the gathering storm of protests and (so far ineffective) resistance to Trump and his minions, DOGE, ICE and Project 2025 and the threat of National Guard and military engagement gives me a sense of foreboding.
Something or some bad things are going to happen during a long hot summer. It feels inevitable.
hotshoe
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Funny, I think that’s an example of “never read the comments”.
Would-be-deplorables sincerely hating on her because she had the nerve to not like a song: “Good God if you don’t like it so damn what! The world needs way less people like you!”
We know who turned out to be MAGAts a decade later.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Bupalos: Hey, how about the California Bear flag?
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Trollhattan: As a Bruin, I have no problem with bears.
ETA: The bear depicted on the flag is actually extinct. I think the last one was killed off in the early 1900’s.
hotshoe
@Trollhattan:
I have never owned a flag. That kind of thing just never turned out to be part of my life.
I’m thinking now I need to buy a California Republic flag to wave.
Be the change you want to see. Right? California, a new Republic, a new hope.
A new Republic armed with bears. Right!
Harrison Wesley
@hotshoe: It’s a great announcement of inter-species solidarity: “Bear with me!”
Marc
These pictures come from multiple “disturbances”. Only the downtown and 2nd night Compton protests could be said to be pre-organized. In all of the other cases, it was the community coming out in response to what they saw as an invading force. If things get more widespread, you’ll see lots more US, Mexican, Nigerian, South African, Palestinian, LBGTQ+, etc. flags. This is California, this is what we do. It’s mostly white people who have a problem with that, and we no longer care what they think ;)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I am stumped too why some Mexican dude who is a day laborer isn’t more knowable about Anglo politics.
Sister Golden Bear
In today’s edition of: They Want Us Trans People Dead, the FTC just announced they’re holding a workshop to explore “unfair or deceptive trade practices” for providing trans healthcare to minors. Another step towards banning it altogether. Because reasons.
Also too, glad to have you back, TaMara and screw the haters.
Ruckus
@TaMara:
You are not wrong. We all get – what’s that word, upset, every so often. In this day and age we have the opportunity just a bit more often. Too often in fact. I’ve stated this here before but I used to be a mental health counselor and I found out that a hell of a lot more people than many would imagine have little to no positive mental health. I have no idea how they make it through the day, let alone years. One of our sayings when I worked in that clinic was “It takes all kinds. Please take some of them….” I’ve been in a closed room with people that gave me zero clues that they wouldn’t use their nails and teeth to tear me apart.” I mean I could (and would) fight back but that wouldn’t have fixed anything. But then I learned that there are humans broken so badly that fixing is impossible. And it isn’t because they are criminals, it is that they have zero idea how to live – an even semi normal life. They were never taught. And often it’s also one or both the parents that have zero idea, so can’t teach or show them. OTOH there are people that know every damn thing. And will very often tell you that they do. And show regularly that they don’t. I believe this has been much of humanity since day one.
danielx
@Omnes Omnibus:
Too true. If there MUST be a 70s song about horses, Chestnut Mare is much better.
Timill
@Bupalos: It’s the only one because the others are out of frame, if not edited out.
prostratedragon
@zhena gogolia: Somehow I imagine Regan and/or Goneril would have scoffed rather than joining in, when they were kids.
Sister Golden Bear
@Marc:
No we fucking don’t.
Might I also note the irony of the various social media betters with Ukrainian flags in their bios while they clutch their pearls about it.
hotshoe
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Well, the flag is meant to portray a grizzly bear and grizzlies are extinct in California. As a separate sub-species Ursus arctos californicus they probably deserve their classification with visible differences from their brethren Ursus arctos but as an example of powerful large mammal, they really aren’t all that different from the “ordinary” black bear.
Anyway, bears in California are thriving, increased from estimate 10,000 in the 1980s to estimated 30,000 nowadays.
I guess we could ask the state Lege to commission a new bear not-a-grizzly portrait for our flag.
Marc
@danielx:
Don’t think too hard about what those lyrics, though. I was more of A Horse With No Name guy myself.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: GMTA
Me at 9.18 this morning
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@hotshoe: When I go hiking with folk who haven’t hiked much, they always ask if there are bears; my reply is always yes. However, in all my hiking going back to the 1970’s, I’ve seen exactly one bear.
Darkrose
Glad you’re back, TaMara!
Speaking of coverage of the protests:
THIS IS A LIE. She is lying; the protesters are not “firing” anything at officers. But CNN is run by right-wingers who see themselves as competing with Fox, so who cares about what’s actually happening?
Any comparison to previous protest movements runs into the issue that we’re in a vastly different media environment than we saw the 20th century. We don’t have everyone watching the nightly news on one of three networks where we assume Cronkite and Brokaw are telling the truth. There’s no longer an implied national consensus on basic facts, let alone the narratives that are coming out of the reporting.
lowtechcyclist
@oldgold:
“It’s my party and I’ll sic the troops on protesters if I want to.”
-Trumpey Gore
Belafon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: All politics are local, until someone somewhere else sees it in a video.
lowtechcyclist
@Belafon:
And if they dare put ketchup on their hot dog, all bets are off! ;-)
Melancholy Jaques
@Omnes Omnibus:
The second 70s song cue of the day. Is there something in the air?
hotshoe
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Hiking upcountry in Yosemite, we saw two cubs dozens of feet ahead of us just off trail, and mom not visible. Which meant we had to be afraid mom was actually behind us and might attack us simply for being between her and the cubs. Fortunately, she loped out from the other side of the path and hustled the cubs up slope away from us. We had a five-minute discussion about whether we could go ahead on the trail.
Once in a lifetime was enough.
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
Don’t worry, I think they have support groups to help you with that. ;-)
Damn, I’m actually agreeing with Omnes about something! How’d that happen? ;-)
Omnes Omnibus
@Melancholy Jaques: It’s Freedom Rock, man!
cain
@Baud: or putting ketchup on their hotdog. Which I understand in some corners is a sin against God. But I love my ketchup.
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
Who killed Kenny this time?!
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@hotshoe: The one I saw was also in Yosemite, just above Nevada Falls.
Cheryl from Maryland
1) great interview with Gus Walz. As with the Harris/Emholf family – what we could have had – intelligent, articulate, centered, sweet people. WTF USA?
2) June 14th No Kings Protest in Montgomery County, we are lining the sidewalks and overpasses (public spaces) with the Stars and Stripes as well as signs. I’m trying to decide between my regular “No Kings” sign and a new one with an image of Marie Antoinette saying “Let Them Eat Tacos”.
lowtechcyclist
@Melancholy Jaques:
What it is ain’t exactly clear.
Melancholy Jaques
@lowtechcyclist:
Not that one.
This one.
Kelly
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I had a bear encounter on the JMT in 1996. I don’t remember the name of the lake but I was a few days from the south end of the trail. It was a first class starry night. I walked out on a narrow peninsula, laid down for a good view. I heard some snuffling in the brush and two tiny bear cubs came out and started wrestling about 50 feet away. Right at the end of my peninsula. I started throwing rocks and yelling. I never throw rocks at bears. I throw them so they make a lot of noise bouncing to one side. Cubs skedaddled. Never saw Mom.
piratedan
@lowtechcyclist: Johnny Nash begs to differ….
Miss Bianca
@TaMara: Damn, Skippy! Sorry that happened. I was just popping in to say I am looking forward to hearing your observations on the interactions with the young folks that you mentioned.
Professor Bigfoot
@Melancholy Jaques: that would be the 80s. 😉
They Call Me Noni
@zhena gogolia: Some folks are just plain rude and in a mood. Not acceptable.
Miss Bianca
@Belafon: As long as it’s not ketchup. I don’t care how people put mustard on their hot dogs, but ketchup, man…ketchup will not fly.
Baud
@They Call Me Noni:
They need to take a pill and chill.
Melancholy Jaques
@Professor Bigfoot:
Which?
KSinMA
@zhena gogolia:
Aw, that’s beautiful!
Miss Bianca
@CaseyL: You could be describing my brother the stroke victim. While I get it about being depressed and wanting to die as a result, I have to confess that I am not as patient with him as I could be when he starts in on that whole self-pity party schtick.
Geminid
American Enterprise Institute Fellow Ruy Texeira’s take on national political aspects of the events in the LA area:
I would say “chaos” clearly is an exaggeration as to the actual events but– it might more accurately describe what people nationwide are seeing through their various media filters, and while we can try to change that narrative I’m not sure we can change it very much.
This was part of a longer piece Texeira posted on John Halpin’s “The Liberal Patriot” Substack. It was paywalled so I couldn’t get past the description to see if he had any prescriptions.
This analysis might be shared though by elected Democrats, like Senators Klobucher and Gallego who want to keep the spotlight on the Republican budget bill, especially the Medicaid cuts. Gallego yesterday:
Of course Congressional Democrats tend to stay focused on Congressional matters, but I can see why they might want to contain the issues raised in California, and not nationalize them. As a practical matter, California’s state and local governments plus the courts have the most agency here anyway.
Also, I suspect that as Gallego suggests, these struggles will be going on for a while in one place or another, maybe all summer or beyond. Meanwhile, the rest of the political world will keep turning and that deserves attention too.
And it’s not like Congressional Democrats are ignoring these events; several California Representatives are trying to check out ICE facilities firsthand (not always successfully). and Senator Schiff showed up to support SIEU head Dennis(?) Huerta at his bail hearing. I have not researched all Southern California Democrats, so I don’t know what the rest have done or not done.
Not surprisingly, Sen. Klobucher got a lot of rasberries for her statement a couple days ago. I expect Sen. Gallego will too for his. I couldn’t say theirs is the best approach but I would not dismiss it out of hand either.
Omnes Omnibus
@Melancholy Jaques: Phil Collins.
mrmoshpotato
@cain:
@Miss Bianca: Some of us don’t give a damn what you put on your hot dogs.
They Call Me Noni
@Melancholy Jaques: I love that song! And Groovy Kind of Love has to be played at full volume.
schrodingers_cat
@Geminid: It makes sense, so expect attacks from the purity left, that values performance over effectiveness.
Omnes Omnibus
@mrmoshpotato: You’re from Chicago. You put everything known to man on them anyway.
Eyeroller
@Geminid: A lot of people seem to have some really rose-colored and sanitized views of how protests happened in the past and what the media environment was like.
Civil Rights protests weren’t peaceful. Sure, most of the violence was started by the cops, but that’s not necessarily what (white) people perceived. Vietnam protests frequently turned violent and there was often looting and fires set and such.
Then as now, the media found the most dramatic images and emphasized those. One difference now is that the media has the ability to show the same image over and over and over and over and on multiple platforms, until it is beaten into people’s minds and that is all they associate with the protest, perhaps more so than in the past. But it’s more a matter of degree than of kind. They do this for other events as well, such as showing that same footage of the guy falling from the airplane in Afghanistan over and over and over and over.
prostratedragon
@cain: True everywhere I’ve been, actually. In Chicago some people are militant about it except for little kids. There’s even a stand where they toll a bell of shame when someone orders it. Most other places they just sniff dismissively. In NYC, you vanish into a void.
They Call Me Noni
@cain: I cannot abide ketchup on a hot dog, but you do you honey, I’ll not judge your choice of condiments. The best hot dogs have mustard and relish and are bought off the cart at the turn and chased with an ice cold beer. Hopefully followed by a Sports Center worthy drive on 10.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: One thing to bear in mind is that the protest in LA wasn’t a planned thing. People saw ICE grabbing people and simply reacted. We should run with it. We can continue to oppose the murder bill and tie the two together. But this happened organically. Let’s not shit on it.
They Call Me Noni
@Baud: And it is not our place to criticize their choice of pill just so long as they do, in fact, chill.
Belafon
@mrmoshpotato: I could have brought up pineapple and pizza.
They Call Me Noni
@Belafon:
Can’t say that I’ve actually tried it, but I do get the whole sweet and salty thing.
Belafon
@Geminid:
Miss Bianca
@mrmoshpotato: You obviously haven’t spent much time in Chicago!//
Captain C
So, with all this ketchup-on-hot dog discussion, are we trying to attract Loomis from LGM and give him a stroke, or what?
Gloria DryGarden
@hotshoe: yikes.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: You can protest peacefully all you want, but if they feel like it, the cops will set a car on fire and shoot rubber bullets at you and it’ll still be your fault.
sab
@hotshoe: That’s how it’s done in the russian army. Send them in to live off the land. Apparently ur leadership listens to that side more than their own military.
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the reminder. Now I have an earworm.
Trollhattan
@Darkrose:
Turns out those were tshirt cannons and the real crime was shooting NY Yankees and Dallas Cowboys tees at cops. Talk about disrespect.
Elizabelle
I used to entertain myself sometimes by coming up with a track listing for the K-Tel All Hell compilation album. Wildfire fer sure got a place.
Also: “I will take ‘Maudlin Songs About Horses’ for $200, Alex.”
Geminid
@Eyeroller: Texeira might have as clear-eyed a view as you when it comes to protests in modern American history. He’s speaking to what he sees as practical political aspects of this specific set of protests.
From what I could read of the article, Texeira wasn’t telling people whether or not to protest; he was advising Democratic electeds, in particular those at the Congressional level, on how to respond to the protests.
Professor Bigfoot
@Melancholy Jaques: I’m just sayin’ that I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord.
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus: dang it, beat me to it. ;)
Redshift
@Cheryl from Maryland:
That’s most of what groups (including mine) are doing in the Virginia suburbs, too. I need to see if we have a flag big enough to be seen on an overpass.
Also, friends of mine ordered a variation on the Virginia “Sic Semper Tyrannis” flag, except the fallen “king” has a blond pompadour and his lost “crown” is a MAGA hat. If they’re not taking it to a No Kings event, I need to borrow it.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
@Marc:
This old white guy agrees with you.
I’ve known people from many countries and many directions and more than a few from this country that the people you are talking about hate for completely asinine reasons. I think they hate them because they are inferior to the people they hate. Not the other way around. I’ve stated this before but I’ve traveled a lot, seen a lot of countries and met more than a few people that lived in them. I’ve worked in every state but Alaska when I worked/traveled in my professional sports job. I’ve crossed the Atlantic 6 times by ship, and stood on Antartica and the northern tip of Norway when in the USN. And much in between.
People are people – the world over. Some good, some not so much. A few not in any way, shape or form. Fortunately it seems there are more good than not.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: I’m what not sure what are you saying here. Should Ruben Gallego not tell people to protest peacefully, or to not assault cops because they’ll get beaten anyway? Have you joined the Black Bloc in spirit?
WaterGirl
@Professor Bigfoot: You re bad.
Almost Retired
I had an appointment in DTLA today, two blocks from the Federal buildings. For an allegedly violent insurrection, it sure seemed like just another ordinary weekday in LA. Sure, there was a topless woman having an animated discussion with a shopping cart, but that hardly required Marine intervention.
Gloria DryGarden
@TaMara: like Mali must, I too look forward to hearing more about your thoughts and experiences with graduating youth during your trip to the west coast.
Can’t figure out why someone would write you an angry name-calling post, unless they were mad because you wrote us a gentle uplifting thread.
“an upbeat positive thread, how dare you”. Sheesh. We need it, and it’s full of constructive comments.
Redshift
There’s something I keep forgetting to mention, since there was a discussion here a few days about about Orange Julius or someone on his behalf claiming there will be 200K people at his North Korean parade:
There were an estimated 700,000 people at the WorldPride parade in DC last week. And that’s even after a lot of people who were planning to come from other countries understandably didn’t feel safe traveling here. He’s not going to come close to that, so whatever he claims, we can point and laugh without even needing to double-check.
Geminid
@sab: When I get an earworm I try to suppress it with a counter-earworm; something catchy but not as obnoxious or persistent. My go-to counterworm is the violin theme from Fiddler on the Roof
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
I do love me some chicago dawgs.
cain
@prostratedragon:
Oh don’t get started on mayo. Lawd. If it isn’t Hellman’s then shit’s gonna go down.
We portlanders have our own ketchup (which is goddam good) and we’ve got “gourmet” mayo. Hell some just make their own.
Ruckus
@Eyeroller:
Civil Rights protests weren’t peaceful. Sure, most of the violence was started by the cops, but that’s not necessarily what (white) people perceived. Vietnam protests frequently turned violent and there was often looting and fires set and such.
I remember a bunch of that crap around LA. Born here and have lived in SoCal most of my life and in several parts of LA County over the years, worked not far east of the Watts riots while they happened and also lived in 2 other states for a bit over a decade.
Gloria DryGarden
@CaseyL: this is much our job in difficult times:
I know I’m struggling with that, or wrestling with it.
I’m sorry for your aunt’s despair and despondency.
When people’s negative downward-spiraling narrative or pity party gets to me, I sometimes ask them to list 10 things they appreciate about themselves, or 5 things they’re grateful for, or to spend 5 minutes talking about what’s going well. I make myself do this also.
In her case, she’s being taken care of, she has resources to stay housed, someone brings her food, and so on. She could be recounting her life stories and adventures, suggesting recipes, editing your writings, picking out a poem to read aloud to you… but then, I’m self entertaining, always bring a book, always have a back up plan.
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid: It’s a Small World After All. ::ducks::
cain
@sab:
I’ve never heard of ‘wildfire’ to even catch an earworm. Is that by Van Halen? I think that’s the oldest band I know. (kidding, kidding :-)
Another Scott
@Redshift:
Meanwhile, … GovExec.com:
But, but I thought they were making everyone Return To Office because those lazy freeloader bureaucrats weren’t actually working??!
:-/
It’ll be interesting to see what happens…
Best wishes,
Scott.
They Call Me Noni
@Almost Retired: I have to admire her chutzpah.
Ruckus
@bbleh:
Sitting in a corner for a while usually helps.
Do they make potty chairs that big?
cain
@Captain C:
I don’t know, but you know what i can’t abide? Fucking french fries on gyros. Someone is gonna pay for putting spuds on gyros. It’s just fucked up.
Worse? Go to Greece, fries on gyros. I have registered my complaint with their govt.
Baud
@cain:
Fascism?
Even worse.
sab
@cain: I was shocked when I realized I still remembered the tune and the words. It was a hit 50 years ago.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: I found your comment helpful. ESP the quote from Gallegos. I might copy paste that elsewhere, because it re-aims my focus.
sheesh, the guy in the WH is getting double lineage out of this la thing. He’s running on immigration issues again/still, and using it to fan the flames and incite us to violence to give him an excuse to militarize things,
while at the same time distracting us, as always, (with some incendiary political bomb type thing) from noticing and
protesting the big overly encompassing bill that’s up in senate, with its cuts to Medicaid, snap, liheap, library funding, and judicial enforcement of contempt of court, etc.
plus he gets to stir up all kinds of fear, depression, despair and chaos.
cain
🎶
There’s something happenin here
What it is, is pretty fucking clear
There’s a man over there, telling me to beware
Think it’s time we stop
duder, what’s that shit?
Stop putting ketchup on that dawg!
Otherwise, things are gonna go down.
There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right, if everyone’s wrong
Balloon-juicers peaking their mind
getting so much resistance, from behind
🎶
zhena gogolia
@cain: 😂
Baud
@Gloria DryGarden:
Trump is popular and people support his actions.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Is he really popular?
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Must be. Libs always say he’s winning everything.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: Just frustrated: we spend all this time on the fine points of respectability politics and it feels completely pointless–the other side can just snap their fingers and MAKE whatever we do no longer respectable, whatever it was. Or make a scary image themselves and suddenly it’s associated with our side.
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
Our country’s peril is real, and our rage about that is real, but too many people are using that as an excuse to be assholes to one another.
Too many people don’t need an excuse to be an asshole. It’s purely natural to them. I think they use/make up an excuse so they just don’t look like a total asshole. I’ve seen people for whom this was their first concept line in any discussion they’ve ever had.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Oh, okay, I guess you were being subtly ironic.
Gloria DryGarden
Loved your comment, baud. There’s stuff we can’t abide.
I somehow deleted the comment I wrote, bumped a button, I guess.
I thought his popularity was less than the 34% who voted for him.
Baud
Some good news
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Maybe.
Redshift
Late addition to the earlier thread about protest sign ideas:
“A king is only a king if we bow down. — Rev. William Barber”
JML
@Geminid: Texeira lost my interest when he cashed out for a right-wing holding tank for republican wanna-be electeds where they kiss corporate ass and think up ways to screw workers during their daily circle-jerk. He can fuck right off, I’m not even interested in seeing if he’s a stopped clock at this point because he cannot be trusted. No one there can. the American Enterprise Institute is a factory of evil.
Jackie
Sigh…
She doesn’t get to vote as a representative of D.C. so it’s probably no biggie.
UncleEbeneezer
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: The only bears we saw in the Sierra were crossing the road up by Lake Mary and trying to get into a dumpster in downtown Mammoth Lakes.
cain
@zhena gogolia:
TPM’s Josh Marshall, has another email out and I will quote this:
I haven’t seen much Dem coverage by the press. (I’m careful not accusing them of doing nothing) I assume that they are wary. I agree that accepting political reality from Republicans in the absence of anything highlights the sad state of DC reporting.
dnfree
@Jackie: Ego and delusion. Five years older than Biden and doesn’t know why anyone would ask her?
zhena gogolia
@cain: The press never covers Democrats in a positive way. Biden was achieving legislative victories but the headlines were always “Biden tries” or “Biden struggles.” They always treat Trump as the big strong daddy who’s either accomplishing stuff or threatening everything and everybody. I don’t know what we can do about that. I’m not blaming any elected Democrat for this.
Harrison Wesley
@JML: I don’t understand how Norman Ornstein fits in there.
Jackie
@dnfree: I edited my comment to remind myself and maybe others that as a representative of D.C., she doesn’t get to vote in House matters.
Another Scott
@cain: Some smart guy said a while ago that DC is wired for Republicans.
I wonder what happened to that guy.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Best wishes,
Scott.
Captain C
@sab: So, old school “foraging,” as per Bret Deveraux.
Captain C
@cain: Who the hell is doing this? (I mean, it sounds like it would be good if one was stoned as fuck, but…)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@JML:
Glad I wasn’t the only one with this reaction.
Jay
MGMT of The AC Westin hotel eventually, (2 days) kicked ICE out for being assholes, pigs and partying.
Eyeroller
@cain: I wish Dems would hire Josh to advise them instead of the likes of Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias. Josh seems to understand voter psychology and press management far better than the typical D consultant. His “bitch slap” theory of politics is still incredibly insightful.
He expresses well why so many of us are frustrated with “timid” Democrats. They are afraid of the press, Rs never are. It’s true that the press is “wired for Republicans” (another Josh Marshall insight) but our elected tend not even to try to overcome that. And that’s part of why the political press is wired for Republicans, in addition to the reality of who their ownership is and what the owners may want.
As to electeds like Gallegos and what he’s saying, of course we should assert support for peaceful protests. But we are just not heard.
Jay
zhena gogolia
@Eyeroller: How would you suggest they overcome it?
Baud
@Eyeroller:
Say what now? Ezra and MattY are on the payroll?
CarolPW
@zhena gogolia: My boyfriend at the time (later spouse) and I sold handmade candles at the Polk Street Fair around 1970, and Sly and the Family Stone played all day. It was a magnificent day I will never forget.
The candles and housecleaning got me through my BA, tie-died hippy and all.
WaterGirl
@Redshift: That’s great. I just added it as a rotating tag.
zhena gogolia
@CarolPW: Wow, they were at their peak then.
sxjames
@Kelly: Back in the early 80’s I was hiking with my wife along the Ape Cave trail in Washington State (near Mt. St. Helens). Suddenly on the slope above us (100 yards or so?) we hear a crash and caught a glimpse of a black bear headed off somewhere in a hurry. We told ourselves we scared it, but still — not a comfortable feeling, even if the bear was headed in the opposite direction.
StringOnAStick
@cain: I found Portland Ketchup at Costco in a 3 pack and stocked up, that stuff is good! Oregon made!!!!!
HopefullyNotcassandra
@cain: the seagulls mine!-ing their way through the American experiment
prostratedragon
@cain: DIY mayo actually isn’t so hard, though after several attempts I’m still fine-tuning. But that stuff needs to be corraled, far from anything involving beef or pork.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: they were though. Individual felons were ordered to pay restitution to defray our costs, too. This ugly ass president, we are stuck with now, pardoned them all and removed their sentences ordering restitution.
Interestingly, since each accepted their pardon, they accepted their guilt by law. That part is the silver lining
Redshift
@WaterGirl: Woot! 😁
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@zhena gogolia:
Start by reviewing (now very hard to do unfortunately) much of what the late, great Steve Gilliard said back around the same time Josh formulated the “bitch slap” theory. Driftglass coined a term for this years later:
https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2011/03/gilliard-doctrine.html
Practitioners of that include Barney Frank and Jasmine Crockett. Not everybody can be them but all our elected pols have had media training, it’s not rocket surgery. One doesn’t have to be a flaming asshole either, Senator Professor Warren is pretty damn good at this in a much lower key way as another example of the spectrum of approaches.
I think that was one of Fetterman’s successful tactics when campaigning for Senate. Well, that and lying about who he was.
It really comes down to (ignoring the tilted media environment, that’s an entirely different issue) is trying to get Dems to not worry about “making any kind of scene”, an ethos that shits like MattY and the rest of that crowd, push and sell to an eager audience and we see on display pretty much every Sunday morning.
Elizabelle
Terry Moran will not return to ABC “News.” Isn’t that an appealing look — not standing behind the journalist your network chose to interview King Trump a mere few weeks ago.
Moran was suspended for tweeting that Stephen Miller “feeds on hate.” The White House, predictably, went bananas.
This after settling a — was it $60 million suit by Trump? [ETA: OK. They paid him off with $15 million.]
ABC “News.” What a bunch of slapdicks.
I hope Terry Moran lands at a news organization with more integrity.
Jay
Elizabelle
From an AP story on Terry Moran (who is 65, FWIW; looks younger):
TS
In the news from Australia
US shares close higher as the commerce secretary indicates trade talks with China are going “really, really well”.
Why do the markets/people controlling same/ act as if every word said is the absolute truth. Have we heard from China about the talks going really really well? From CNN
Chinese Vice Premier He Lifeng, who is leading the Chinese delegation, left without making comments to the media.
I wish you all much success at the No Kings events. Great collection of signs on the previous post
They Call Me Noni
@zhena gogolia: I’ve noticed and been befuddled by this too. I chalk it up to being the loudest blowhard.
Eyeroller
@Baud: They were hired by Senate Dems, don’t you recall? I think they were also involved in the 20M bro study, but somebody may correct me on that. I’m talking about consultant work, not staff work.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Trollhattan: the word bear does not mean bear. It means brown. Bears were so terrifying to some ancients to name them was taboo.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-does-dagnabbit-mean
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: Well, I can understand your frustration.
Just don’t join the Black Bloc in spirit, because then it’s a few short steps to joining them in fact. Next thing, we’ll be looking at your mugshot on Fox News, with an angry Pam Bondi in the foreground gesturing at it. Watergirl will be setting up a thermometer to raise your bail money. I’m tellin’ ya, don’t go there!
Baud
@Eyeroller: I don’t recall their hiring.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Marc: it’s mainly right wing propaganda media telling elderly, fragile, scared white people that they need to have a problem with flags from other countries.
Who is afraid of a freaking flag? Why Fox not news is, of course. Deathly afraid of just about everything is Fox not News, making elderly Americans scared, anxious and absurd nearly every day for decades now. Rightwing radio is even worse incredibly.
CarolPW
@zhena gogolia:
It was a giant event. Bunches of famous people were there. Many of them I didn’t recognize, two of whom wanted to sign me to a movie contract (probably porn) until they found out I was underage. We sold out the candles.
Rokka
I’ve seen at least twenty bears in Tahoe and Yosemite including a few that came by in the middle of the night. Whatever you do, don’t camp near Nevada Falls.
The last one I saw was walking on a road next to Lake Tahoe about thirty feet away.
Eyeroller
@zhena gogolia: I am not a good source of advice since I am introverted and not really in tune with “normies” that much. But. Josh seems to have a pretty clear idea of what is involved. One perpetual problem seems to be that Democrats apparently can’t figure out how to deliver punchy soundbites. Distilling the message. Staying on message even if there is some divergence of opinion. Just suck it up and stay on message. Put party before yourself.
Also “bitch slap” politics means if you get hit, you hit back and not in some “well actually no, that’s not right” way.
I did not see Gallego’s statement but a “bitch slap” might be to start by a short (short is important) sentence or two about how we were told ICE was going after criminals and instead they’re rounding up construction workers. Then “and people are frustrated and angry and scared” and then “but we must stay calm and protest peacefully.”
Elizabelle
WaPost story, from an hour ago:
The view from nowhere is going to deliver us to fascism.
Although. Were I a younger person set on telling the truth about politics and current events: I would be practicing a standup routine, this very moment.
You have to entertain them. Our “news” organizations are timid corporations. Might offend some shareholders.
I wonder if Moran was under a lot of tension precisely because the contract was up for renewal, and he was not hearing much from his bossweasels.
Jay
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
North American Black Bears annually kill more people than Grizzlies, Polar bears, cougars, coyotes and wolves combined. They will actively hunt and stalk you, and because they are the most populous Ursidae in North America, many are urbanized and not afraid of humans at all.
Of course, we kill far, far, far more of them than they kill us.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Darkrose: that could be a deadly lie.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: So what did you think of Texeira’s analysis? You don’t have to endorse the messenger to evaluate the message.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Jay: I did not write that quote. I avoid bears of any kind whenever possible.
Ruckus
@John Cole:
Most likely having his head stuffed in his very dark and smelly orifrice.
@CaseyL:
As an old I can without hesitation state that many people do not like to get old. Especially when they can no longer take care of themselves. Some of us have been doing this living thing for more than a few decades, and even if we had someone in our life for some period of time, making life nicer, we often end up with – ourselves. For some this is seemingly unbearable, for others it is accepted just like every other period of their lives. Which is better? It depends on a number of factors, the biggest being how good was that relationship. And you also have to remember that if you live long enough, things will change in your life that if you cannot accept, will make your life a hell of a lot worse. It is what it is. Sun come up, sun go down. Be thankful that you get a lot of decades under your belt because not everyone does. Had a cousin that made 6 months. Had a parent that made 95 years. We never really know – till we do. I was the youngest in my family, now I’m the only one left. Oldest in the extended family and have outlived more than one of them in my generation. It is what it is, you get the life you get, you live as long as you live. And you rarely know very much in advance of when the end is at hand. Enjoy what you get.
Geminid
@Eyeroller: Ezra Klein and some other guy were hired by some Senate staffer to give one talk at one Democratic Senate retreat.
And that $20 million “bro-outreach” effort is being funded by donors on their own initiative. It’s not a Democratic Party project.
Jay
@Elizabelle:
Miller was a well known racist and hater in High School.
Joy in FL
I haven’t read all 203 comments (there were 203 posts when I started writing my comment) – probably won’t, but I’m glad the awful commenter was banned. So I decided to post to say Thank You to TaMara.
I also want to say that I’m now taking my small American flag to the No Kings protest on Saturday. You all influenced me in a good way. I have never been a flag waver, and until recent months, I would have said I never would express patriotism that way. But now, it’s an obvious, easy thing for me to do, and it now feels authentic for me.
Baud
@Geminid:
Thanks for that clarification. Still a waste of money that could have been put to better use, but at least it wasn’t a collective waste of money. Less angry now.
I was misled by the reporting.
Jay
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
They are safer than men in the woods.
Sister Golden Bear
In today’s edition of They Want LGBTQ+ People Dead: White House proposes axing 988 suicide hotline services for LGBTQ youth
Bupalos
@Jay This is shocking.
I mean, there may be some fudge factor here, in that at least as of 2024 the Chinese dictatorship had a lot more control over reported numbers than the US semi-democratic oligarchy. I’d be interested in sourcing. Though I wouldn’t much doubt that the bottom 50% of Chinese society is better off.
An even more interesting figure would be where the crossover point occurs. Like, how far up the ladder do you have to go before folks are materially better off being American? 60% of the way up? 70?
Elizabelle
@Jay: I have a feeling that, had Terry Moran tweeted a published and verified account of your statement (Stephen Miller was a racist in high school) …
ABC again would not have renewed his contract.
Think of the
childrenaccess.Sister Golden Bear
@Geminid:
The protests were peaceful — until the ICE, LASD. LAPD started rioting.
And even if protesters did all of the above, Trump and the MSM will claim they did. Witness the CNN reporter who claimed protesters were firing rubber bullets at the cops (never mind the protesters didn’t and had no capability to do so).
Chiding protesters for not protesting the “correct” way is a mug’s game and plays into Trump’s hands.
Jay
Bupalos
@Elizabelle: I don’t think this is an especially bad sign. Of course in the context of US political entertainment, where ABC is still trying to play both sides even as Trump flames them constantly, it’s another data point of decline. But it’s interesting that Moran had enough, and decided he’d rather not toe that line. That may very well have been a solid career decision for Moran. It’s hard to believe that there will continue to be any appetite for what ABC wants their “journalists” to be. Moran may just have said “no thank you, that’s a career-killer.”
Elizabelle
@Bupalos: He certainly joins a lot of distinguished company, as it were.
Enough is enough.
Ruckus
@Miss Bianca:
Not everyone can accept the lumps, bumps and crappy days of living. One should have been older when we had one or no vaccines and people died or suffered a lot from diseases we never or very rarely see any more. I’ve personally known/know 3 polio victims. One is a neighbor, my age, lives in a wheelchair. One was a neighbor long-long ago, with an artificial leg. The other was a classmate from kindergarten through HS. Walked into our 50th HS reunion (a few years ago..) like she’d never needed leg braces and crutches or a wheelchair. A lot different from today, medicine is a hell of a lot better. Still, it’s life. Live well, enjoy, try not to be a complete and utter asshole (most of us understand this and at least make an attempt) and life will be a hell of a lot better. I’ve stated here before that I’ve been hit head on by a pickup truck and walked away. It could have been far, far worse. It wasn’t. Just life, the one we get.
eclare
@Captain C:
No. Just no. As I learned living in London, French fries are best with a sprinkling of vinegar. I haven’t bought ketchup in years.
Bupalos
@Sister Golden Bear: I think this is a bit of a mugs game, insisting on what happened, insisting it’s the opposite of whatever the administration says. It isn’t necessary and simply opens us up to being discredited by some false flags or accelerationists or just unclear video, and all of those things are going to be present. It puts us in a brittle position. It’s a mugs game to think you have to vouch for every person in Los Angeles and to stake the credibility of the movement on “the protestors don’t do anything wrong.” Maybe someone shot a rubber bullet. Maybe someone threw a rock. Maybe someone lit a car on fire. It’s actually very likely, almost certain. And doesn’t in any way justify the regime. And to argue that none of this is possibly happening ends up sounding like we’re saying that if it were, then this action would make sense. It doesn’t. It’s ALL at Trump’s feet. Goodhair has it right: “There wasn’t a problem, then Trump came along…now there’s all kinds of problems.”
Whatever is happening is happening because Trump has instigated and is deliberately trying to provoke.
Jay
JoyceH
The weather report for Trump’s parade is calling for thunderstorms and high of 88. Am I petty to enjoy this?
Jay
@eclare:
Nope, neither white vinegar or cider vinegar.
Either eat them plain from the chippy or serve them with beef gravy and cheese curds.
Captain C
@JoyceH: Not one bit.
Baud
@JoyceH:
You got a different report than I did. I prefer yours.
Jay
@Bupalos:
You need either a 20mm grenade launcher or a 40mm grenade launcher to fire off a “rubber” bullet.
eclare
@Jay:
I’ll have to try poutine someday. But as for vinegar, only balsamic works. White vinegar is for cleaning.
Eyeroller
@Baud: It’s not just the waste of money, which doesn’t matter as much if it’s donor money — it’s how influential it might become.
Jay
If you get shot by a tear gas canister, a “rubber bullet” or other “less lethal” rounds, go to the hospital. All of them can cause life long injuries or death.
Dan B
@Sister Golden Bear: And the rejection of LGBTQ kids by their parents is likely a big factor in suicide. They want a solution that worsens the problem. To them it’s all about control, however brutal.
Jay
@eclare:
Balsamic for Caprese Salad.
White for soused herring, potato salad or cleaning.
Malt, never.
Warning, Poutine has gone high end, like ramen.
Geminid
@Sister Golden Bear: Are you saying no cops were assaulted, and no stores were looted? Or that action by Homeland Security agents and local cops justified these actions. Gavin Newsom has spoken out against violent protesters; why can’t Ruben Gallego?
I don’t think Gallego was playing a mugs game when he called for people to protest peacefully. He just doesn’t want Democrats to be identified with violence on the part of people who see the Democratic Party as an enemy, maybe even a greater enemy than Donald Trump. I’m not talking about all the protesters, just the few who want to exploit these protests to serve agendas that have nothing to do with civil rights
Ed. And I don’t see how calling for peaceful protests plays into Donald Trump’s hands. I think it’s the opposite. And Ruben Gallego is no snowflake. He’s seen violence on a level very few of us have.
Baud
@Eyeroller:
Sure, but private people get to try to influence things. It’s much worse if the party is spending donor funds on dumb studies.
MagdaInBlack
@Jay: I thought malt was what one put on fries?
What makes it malt vinegar anyway?
( and gak @ soused herring. ugh)
hotshoe
@Jay:
The thing about Feds trying to get kids in an elementary school was in April sometime.
It hasn’t happened again recently. The Feds did not suddenly become moral people and decide not to do that ever again knowing it was wrong — but they decided it was easier to simply snatch immigrants out of restaurant kitchens than to face down the school principal and teachers.
That specific post/tweet/whatever should not be making the rounds today as “breaking” news.
We’ve got actual news to circulate.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I’m *old*. If I was gonna do that stuff the time for it was 35 years ago.
Jay
@MagdaInBlack:
Malt vinegar is made by malting barley, then fermenting the malt.
Soused Herring is not pickled herring or roll mops.
The herring fishery here is a BFD, mostly for the roe, that get’s shipped to Japan where it is a delicacy. The Colonist fishery uses seine nets to scoop up whole schools, takes them to a fish plant, where they are gutted the roe removed, and most wind up ground up as fish meal for the salmon farms.
The Indigenous method is to suspend ropes or kelp in the coves where they spawn, and then harvest some of the eggs.
One side result is that The Kinsmen during herring season, will sell you a 5 gallon bucket (you have to bring your own bucket) for $5, all proceeds to charity. So 40lbs of herring for $5.
Like mackerel, herring is an oily fish, and you need something to cut the oil. So a deep dish, lay the herring down whole, (it’s already been gutted and cleaned), leave the heads on, a splash of white vinegar, lots of cracked black pepper, cover with foil, bake until cooked.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: Whew! You had me worried.
But hey, are you in Laurie Trahan’s district? I figured you might be since you commute by way of New Hampshire. I looked up MA03 this morning and found it was 60.8 % White, 20% Hispanic and 8% Asian. I wonder how your old stomping grounds in Fairfax County compare now.
Jay
@Jay:
Oh, unlike Pacific Salmon, herring don’t die after the spawn, they can live another 5 years and spawn 5 more times.
MagdaInBlack
@Jay: Ok, that might be edible. I was ruined by pickled herring, which to me has the taste and texture of vinegar soaked hairballs.
Geminid
@Jay: Fresh Mackerel is one of my favorite fish to eat.. I can get all the canned Mackeral I want where I live in central-ish Virginini– it’s poor people’s food– but no fresh Mackeral. I try to eat some fresh whenever I travel to the Atlantic coast.
Rachel Carson wrote a really good book titled Under the Sea and Wind. It follows sealife in a New England bay throughout one year (it’s’s basically the bay Carson studied as a scientist at Wood’s Hole Observatory on the Massachusetts coast).. One of the “characters” is a young Mackeral who leads a very perilous life.
Rachel Carson’s Under the Sea and Wind is not as famous as The Sea Around Us or Silent Spring, but as a literary work I would put it right up there with them. A good beach read, or anytime read.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: And you are not *old*. You’re younger than me, and I’m not old!
Well, maybe just a little bit.
Jay
@Geminid:
When I lived in the Maritimes, you could catch mackerel from shore with just a fly rod and a shiny #12 fly. Ate lot’s of them.
Yes, “poor food”, but it was free, along with shad, Gaspereau and pounders, but it was delicious.
I can get frozen mackerel here, but it’s Pacific, not Atlantic, different fish.
sab
@JoyceH: That cheers me up.
They Call Me Noni
@TaMara: Don’t know if you’ll read this but I am just now watching the Gus interview video and want to thank you for posting it. What an uplifting story of a beautiful young man.
Ironcity
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh Nooos. That is the earworm to end all earworms. From the Pepsi pavilion at the 1964 New York World’s Fair. Had to stand in that serpentine line for what seemed like hours (and may have been) listening to that stupid song. Then Disney recycled it to Disney World and the kids thought it was so cute until they were 6 or so and I had to listen to it more. Luckily by then nobody wanted to stand in line for the ride so got it over with as quickly as possible. I swear that every time you listen to it you loose IQ points.
Ironcity
@Jay: malt vinegar please