fwiw, tea leaves of doing this imho is that ICE knows that denying members entrance to facilities is a losing issue for them.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 10:48 AM
Scrabbling for figleaves…
… Under the annual appropriations act, lawmakers are allowed to enter any DHS facilities “used to detain or otherwise house aliens” to inspect them as part of their oversight duties. The act outlines that they are not required “to provide prior notice of the intent to enter a facility.”
The agency’s new memo also seeks to differentiate ICE field offices from detention facilities, noting that “ICE Field Offices are not detention facilities” and therefore do not fall under the appropriations act provision.
Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, the top Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee, called the move “unprecedented” and an “affront to the Constitution and Federal law.”
“This unlawful policy is a smokescreen to deny Member visits to ICE offices across the country, which are holding migrants – and sometimes even U.S. citizens – for days at a time. They are therefore detention facilities and are subject to oversight and inspection at any time. DHS pretending otherwise is simply their latest lie,” Thompson said in a statement.
Previous DHS language for lawmaker visitations said “ICE will comply with the law and accommodate Members seeking to visit/tour an ICE detention facility for the purpose of conducting oversight.”
The recent memo now says the department “will make every effort” to comply with the law and accommodate members, while listing circumstances like “operational conditions, security posture, etc,” that could impact the time of entry…
I mean this is continuing confirmation, imho, that the massive public pressure campaign is tanking morale internally.
Homan, et. al doing these sort of appeals to humanity really gives away the game a bit.— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 1:58 PM
You can see the ICE agents in their minivans then the LAPD cars in the back appearing to block the Dodger Stadium parking lot entrance.
When I asked an LAPD officer if they are blocking ICE from entering the parking lot she said “put it this way. The Dodgers don’t want them coming in.”— Molly Knight (@mollyknight.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 2:56 PM
Cops not letting ICE in? Perfect.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 3:10 PM
trollhattan
Ladies and gentlemen—The Chavez Ravine Massacre.
Miss you, Kellyanne. Not really.
JaySinWa
LAPD doing doughnuts in the ICE’d out Dodgers parking lot
Scout211
Then it’s only fair that ICE provide 72 hours of notice before raiding farms, businesses, schools, immigration court, etc.
Indycat32
Are they planning on deporting Shohei Ohtani?
bbleh
Glad to hear Dems are telling them to pound their unconstitutional sand where the sun don’t shine.
Also glad to see PROFESSIONAL police — “even the LAPD!” say the astonished newspapers — telling those quasi-official goon squads the same thing.
If (presumably when) Dems retake the House, I hope the starting point for the ICE budget is fkin ZERO. “Sure, okay, let’s negotiate. Maybe meet halfway. Wait, can we set that at a negative number…?”
Captain C
I think their parents and children and other relatives and friends should be mean to them as much as possible until they (ICE agents) cut it the fuck out.
Scout211
Floriduh man proposes Alligator Alcatraz.
. . .
DHS’s official response on X
I have no words.
Raoul Paste
@bbleh: Half of zero? Your proposal is acceptable
Captain C
I’m pretty sure if they tried that, an angry mob of Dodger fans in the tens or hundreds of thousands would grab any agents involved and stomp them to death, if the LAPD didn’t do it first. And any of the stompers who made it to trial would be ruled innocent by juries in less than a day. The smart juries would wait until after they got one more paid for lunch.
trollhattan
That sounds like some video game shit. “I use my 287g on you and eject you from my fort!”
Josie
I sincerely hope someone laughed in his face when he said this. What an ignoramus.
no body no name
Schnorkles is firmly Kamala Is a Cop and a Bernie Bro.
Do you actually have a moral stand about this here, or as for any Clinton voters just cease to give one flying fuck about ethics when you can turn them to your side? After all we are now since Clinton “breaking up big banks won’t solve racism and sexism” and Bigfoot says crazy things here.
Y’all are even far worse than the right or left made you out to be. Keep going!
Jay
The neighborhoods around Dodgers Stadium are predominantly Hispanic. Because people are afraid to go out and shop and workers are afraid to go to work, the Dodgers, working with the community, were to announce a program to support local communities.
That’s why ICE targeted them.
Matt McIrvin
@Scout211: Alligator Auschwitz
Dangerman
If an ICE agent can pitch, let him in!
trollhattan
One thingie Donny still really, really wants.
Harrison Wesley
I’ve lived in Florida for almost nine years and it still seems strange – there are many things I like here, but there’s some weird shit (as GWB might say). I just found out today that the county I live in is one of the Trumpiest in the country. That might explain some things.
trollhattan
@Dangerman: Every team can use a backup shortstop who can turn a double play.
suilebhan
I didn’t need another reason to love the Dodgers, but I’ll take it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
bbleh
@trollhattan: lol omg whenever you think “he can’t be THAT easy to manipulate,” he … ah … trumps the last time.
Gotta admit, though, the logic is impeccable. “See, there wasn’t a nuclear war! Now where’s my Nobel?”
If he weren’t so harmful and dangerous, he’d be pathetic.
mrmoshpotato
@Josie: Tom, do their children and parents also think they’re Nazi shitstains like we decent people do?
Danielx
To ICE agents: does your mother know what you do for a living?
Jay
@trollhattan:
Funny, Modi (spit) in the White Supremacy House made it clear in a joint presser that Taco Don had no involvement in the cooling of Indian/Pakistani conflict.
Steve LaBonne
I am sipping neat bourbon because NO FUCKING ICE.
Omnes Omnibus
@no body no name: You are fun at parties, aren’t you?
Timill
@Omnes Omnibus: Provides the pie for dinner…
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Everything there was very sentence-adjacent.
Kirk
@Danielx:
After the release that some of the ICE agents who arrested Lander were immigrants, I’ve become convinced that is a significant reason they wear masks.
Danielx
@Omnes Omnibus:
Trolls R Him. Or Her. Or They.
Danielx
@Kirk:
Say what?
Jay
Video of the assault, kidnapping and disappearance of an American Citizen by ICE at link.
https://bsky.app/profile/lataco.bsky.social/post/3lrtyi63izk24
prostratedragon
Tom Homan’s complaint
Harrison Wesley
@Omnes Omnibus: That post has a distinct AI feel to me.
bbleh
@Omnes Omnibus: arguably yes, depending on how drunk everyone is …
I gotta admit, even as something of a professional communicator, I’m sometimes just baffled by some of the garbled stuff I see. Like … what’s the point? what’s this even about? Sort of analogous to the famous “that’s not even wrong.”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@suilebhan:
The Fucking Yankees™ of the West Coast (to borrow a phrase from the late, great Steve Gilliard). With that in mind:
Fuck The Fucking Yankees™, of the West Coast.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I see Trump says he’ll decide “within two weeks” whether to intervene in the Israeli/Iran war. Seriously? Do they not remember how that’s Trump’s default time span for doing something that he then never does?
Another Scott
@Dorothy A. Winsor: There are bloots out there claiming that ICE said it wasn’t them. “Maybe call the Border Patrol.”
Grr…
Good for the people of LA, and the Dodgers, for saying NO.
They’re going to keep doing this crap, and worse, until there are consequences. We have to do everything we can to enable increased majorities in the legislatures and in public opinion to put an end to this destruction of our governmental systems.
Eyes on the prizes.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Scout211
@Another Scott:
In response to the Dodgers post, the Official ICE X
LOL. Somehow that defense seems right out of some comedy routine.
ETA: More from CNN
Believable?
Harrison Wesley
@Dorothy A. Winsor: We can only hope.
dc
@Captain C: Nazis were mothers and fathers too, and even were nice to their pets. Some were even vegetarians. They were still Nazis.
Kirk
@Danielx:
I saw it several places, but will link this Guardian article.
The 13th paragraph of the article, emphasis mine:
scav
@Another Scott: Easy to claim it was the other guys when everyones masked, id-less and out of uniform. Still, a distinction without a difference: “It wasn’t us the pneumonic plague — it was the bubonic plague at the gates!”
Dave
@Kirk: Not at all surprised they are going to put as many diverse faces forward as possible.
Cynical and predictable.
Does show they haven’t decided they are above the impact of public opinion.
Jay
https://bsky.app/profile/kevinmkruse.bsky.social
ICE say’s it wasn’t them, but they have been changing their lies all day.
LAPD says it was ICE,
The Dodgers say it was ICE,
The Reporters say it was ICE,
The Protestors say it was ICE.
Remember the 2 helicopter 60 ICE “agents” raid on a LA Swapmeet a couple of days ago, where they went in armed and geared up as it they were raiding Bin Laden’s compound, all to make only two kidnappings?
Well, ICE spent your tax dollars to use selectively edited footage of it to make a short “hype” video of it.
Gvg
@Scout211: He is an idiot of course. The Everglades is mostly already owned and run as National Parks (2) State parks (2) a state wildlife refuge and 3 wildlife management areas with laws about what can be done and built on them, plus access and travel.
I am sure he is thinking of how nice to strand all those people he doesn’t like in the hostile environment but it’s also impractical to get them there. It’s a big swamp and it doesn’t have roads. You can’t transport lots of people there easily. I don’t think there is anywhere to transport people to. No land big enough. Maybe he doesn’t care, but others will and there are people who know the Everglades and can go check.
Look, part of the reason the feds and the state were able to acquire such big tracts of land pretty close to already expensive coastal cities was that bottom part of Florida is really not good for building. It’s flooded all the time and the soil is soft. Roads cost a lot of money to build up.
Nelle
I realize this isn’t an open thread, but is related. I just got word that my nephew, a DRC citizen who was picked up by ICE IN March, has been deported…to DRC! He will shortly be arriving at the family home.
Baud
@Nelle:
I remember you were worried he would be sent somewhere else. So good news indeed.
ETA: Also, this is an open thread
trollhattan
@Nelle: Jesus. That’s mental.
Related to nothing, the Minnesota assassin did his come to Jeebuz thing in DRC but failed in attracting a Jimmy Jones flock of admirers.
Professor Bigfoot
Such as?
brendancalling
I saw that whine from Homan.
Lots of shitty people are parents. I know, I work with their kids.
WaterGirl
Most excellent title!
Omnes Omnibus
@Professor Bigfoot: Well, that was pretty crazy….
Matt McIrvin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Sometimes it’s 90 days. Those are the new Friedman Units.
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus: As in, “don’t fuck with that Bigfoot guy, he’s fuckin’ CRAZY?” ;)
scav
@Captain C: Oh really, they have family?!? How unlike every immigrant there ever was!
Flanders Other Neighbor
IMO, every ice agent had an option to decline doing this job. They didn’t and are guilty at the very least of association with this administration. If you hide your face, you know what you’re doing is wrong.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Nominated!
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’d punch a NAZI and I’d punch an off duty ICE agent. There’s no difference to me. None. Sure they have families, just like the people that they are disappearing off of the streets. Why the fuck should we care about them when it’s clear that they don’t give a shit about us or our opinions?
If you’re a family member or friend of one of these NAZI pigs and don’t get in their faces then you’re a NAZI too.
Fuck’em.
Jay
@Professor Bigfoot:
It’s just sad how Covid made daydrinking and PUI, (Posting Under the Influence) acceptable.
jlowe
They are mothers and fathers and have children. Many of them attend churches and have pastors. Those pastors have a lot of deep soul-searching to do.
bbleh
&btw having thought about this, I think ICE should send agents into EVERY MLB game, maybe even march onto the field and grab a player or two, something something Heroically Protecting Our Homeland against the Invading Tide of Illegal Immigrants something something. And make sure the cameras capture it all, live. I think that would REALLY help Americans appreciate the job they’re doing!!
hotshoe
@Scout211:
I saw that headline elsewhere. DHS is wrong, of course, does anyone doubt it? The House has already been fighting DHS about this for a month; the only reason why DHS is trying to “ask” for 72-hours notice nowadays is because they are getting bad publicity about their previous, completely illegal, refusal to let Members of Congress make inspections.
Everyone who works for DHS at any level under this treacherous administration should be identified, arrested and prosecuted wherever they’ve broken laws — such as the specific law which requires them to allow Members of Congress to make surprise inspections.
Don’t want to be hated for being a DHS pig? Then find a spine, find honest work somewhere else.
Jay
https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lryep7zero2j
Baud
@Jay:
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: No brain, no pain…
Jay
@hotshoe:
And the inspections are finding inhumane conditions, rotten food, no food, no sanitary facilities, denial of legal aid, disappearances, torture, rape.
Jay
https://bsky.app/profile/samtlevin.bsky.social/post/3lrycmle5hk22
Jay
Video at link,
https://bsky.app/profile/longtimehistory.bsky.social/post/3lryaddpum22c
Note to add, the plate has a plastic film cover over it, making it impossible to dash cams, traffic cameras, Police car cams and body cams from being able to read the plate number.
In many States, that is a felony. In others, it’s a major traffic violation subject to hefty fines.
hotshoe
@Jay:
Seems to me that DHS behavior is bad enough that they would need way more than 72 hours notice to perform a cover-up for themselves.
72 hours ya can get rid of any dead bodies, sure, but ya can’t fix all the rest of the problems.
At some level the bosses must figure if they can get away with illegally demanding advance notice from MoC, that will somehow allow getting away with the other crimes against humanity they are committing against their detainees.
Although to be honest, I figure they’re right if they are counting on getting away with their crimes. I’m not hopeful.
lowtechcyclist
Then maybe they shouldn’t act like a cross between stormtroopers and secret police. I’m sure there were plenty of parents among the Nazi SS. We killed as many of them as we could anyway.
Scout211
BlueGuitarist
Hilarious line!
Best ice is crushed ice.
There’sa great photo on blue sky of cosplay stormtroopers in front of a huge LA donut sign taken by spacebunny1news.
Bupalos
ICE needs 72 hours notice to make sure you don’t get the wrong impression about what goes on in these facilities.
Bupalos
@scav: SPEND 72 HOURS WITH THEIR FAMILIES while waiting for approval and access to see how things are going with the other people, the caged people…who for sure don’t have families.
hotshoe
@Jay:
I saw that. I was wondering why the guy trying to photo the plate needed to get up close in the street. Seemed pretty risky, traffic-wise, not just because the goon driver might be violent. Now I understand it’s because of the plate covering makes it hard to photo. Interesting.
LAPD has apparently decided to defend the city against ICE (eg at Dodger Stadium), when they’re not violently defending ICE against protestors; who knows what the rules of engagement are and who knows which agencies are exempt, or not, from LA traffic enforcement.
I do know that those license plate covers are definitely illegal in California.
Jay
On the one hand, DHS want’s to destroy the Immigration process completely, the visa programs completely, tourism completely by brutal and arbitrary conditions,
https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/how-my-reporting-on-the-columbia-protests-led-to-my-deportation
on the other hand, they know their actions are illegal as fuck and want to duck liability. An immigrant, a tourist, a visa holder can’t hold them liable, but members of the House and Senate can.
Bupalos
Nothing screams “transparency” like “I need 72(!?!) hours notice!!”
I’m super embarrassed about my living room. Really. It’s bad.
I need 3 hours notice.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
Well so fucking what?? Since none of them identify themselves anymore, we have no way of knowing which government vigilante force is which. Once they identify themselves to the citizens (and others) they are dealing with, then if they get mis-identified, it’s someone else’s fault.
But right now it’s all theirs. And why should we believe a word they say anyway?
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
There’s also the delicious irony of them being the victims of misinformation.
Kirk
re the 72 hours, ICE is trying to rewrite existing legislation.
From Public Law 118–47 (my emphasis)
Section c allows a 24 hour delay if the investigator is not a member of congress but instead works for and is designated by the Senator or Representative to conduct this inspection.
But by law Senators and Representatives have authority to make no-notice inspections of DHS facilities.
indycat32
@bbleh: Sure and after they deport all those DEI hires, mediocre white men can fulfill their lifelong dream of playing major league baseball.
Another Scott
I got curious about the “2 weeks” thing. And then I remembered a story that the USS Nimitz was on its way to the Middle East and wondered – where is it now?
USS Nimitz location – AS OF 2 DAYS AGO, it’s still in the Strait of Malacca. Speed of 19 knots.
I can’t quickly figure out how to determine the sea distance between, say Kuala Lumpur and Bahrain, but it’s over 6000 km by air. 19 knots = 35 kph so 6000/35 = 171 hours = 7+ days.
Since the real distance is longer, maybe 10000 km?, that gets us to 12 days…
:-/
That assumes, of course, that the Nimitz speed isn’t going to change en route.
And minus the 2 day delay in it’s location from that web site.
This is feeling a little like the on-again, off-again buildup to W’s start of the Iraq War. But I think, without any inside information, that in this case it’s more of his usual bluster.
But it would seemingly be malpractice to not have the Nimitz in place before starting something, if one were to start something… Grr…
As usual, him telegraphic the constraints, if he’s planning on doing something, is not helpful if one wants the element of surprise…
The GQP continues to take us down the stupidest timeline.
Best wishes,
Scott.
hotshoe
@Kirk:
Yep.
BUT:
The average Member of Congress, possibly with a few aides and/or journalist in tow, versus the guns of the goons … don’t bet on Congress winning.
Who can Congress send to arrest and dis-arm the armed lawbreakers at DHS offices? Who would even dare to prosecute DHS for breaking the law when the DoJ is directly controlled by Dirty Don?
Betty
@lowtechcyclist: And why would the Border Patrol be at Dodger Stadium?
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay: When was it not acceptable here? Covid had nothing to do with it.
Sister Golden Bear
Why it’s just like they’re the same as immigrants (documented and undocumented) and brown people in general. /s
Jay
@Betty:
There are a couple of International Airports and an International Port in LA. Curtesy of the Patriot Act, the CBP has jurisdiction within 100 miles of any International Border crossing. Airports and Ports count.
The original ICE lie was it was just a CBP Patrol taking a short 15 minute break before heading on patrol south. That lie was exposed when the vehicles stayed long enough to attract protestors, demanded access to Dodgers Stadium and the Dodgers called the LAPD on them.
Sister Golden Bear
@Another Scott: If not Gestapo, then why Gestapo-shaped?
YY_Sima Qian
Cops serve the interests of capital, & capital need cheap, marginalized labor to exploit to maintain their profit margins.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
The cops are currently deporting the cheap, marginalized labor.
JMG
The DHS cannot provide the hundreds and hundreds of overtime and paid detail hours LAPD cops get from details at Dodger Stadium. The Dodgers can. So this time the feds lost. Also, MLB cannot afford to have the idea get out that a ticket to the ballgame possibly is a one-way ticket to El Salvador.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: ICE/CBP are, police is a mixed bag depending on the location & the situation.
Sister Golden Bear
@Professor Bigfoot:
You don’t tug on Superman’s cape
You don’t spit into the wind
You don’t pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don’t mess around with Professor Bigfoot
Princess
@Dorothy A. Winsor: you’d think the Trump people could at least come up with a few new arbitrary time spans for things that will never happen. TACO.
Captain C
@Another Scott: Using Sea Distance dot org, Malacca to Port Sultan Qaboos (Sultan’s Caboose? Sounds a little kinky…) at 19 knots comes to 6 days and 15 hours, so roughly a week, perhaps a little less as the Nimitz might not want to get that close to the Iranian coast.
edited to add the link
Jackie
@JaySinWa: ICE has denied it – in spite of photo evidence…
Can’t even get their story straight LOL
Sister Golden Bear
@Jay: More to the point CBP has jurisdiction anywhere within 100 miles of a U.S. border—including coasts—which encompasses something like 70-80% of the entire population.
Jackie
@Josie: Is Homan’s family claiming they know him? He’s an evilly ugly creature.
YY_Sima Qian
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Speaking of which (gift link to NYT article below):
At the end of the day, if TACO means avoids getting stuck in another ME quagmire that Bibi wants to trap the US in, I would gladly take it.
Jay
@Jackie:
emptywheel thinks ICE is trying to slither away from a 4th Amendment lawsuit.
scav
I think they’re a wee bit confused about the theme song of the All-‘Mercan game. Granted, many do enjoy the lyrics but . . .
Good to hear the Dodgers had more spine than other orgs.
Sister Golden Bear
@Another Scott: Lining up military assets might be a factor, but “I’ll make a decision in two weeks” is a classic Trump move for a couple reasons. It keeps the “will he/won’t he” spotlight on him, as well as seeks to get those affected to kowtow to him in hopes of getting a favorable outcome. But this—like the latest delay in the TikTok deadline—also usually happens when Trump is terrified of making a potentially unpopular decision. I assume he’s torn between wanting to play the tough man, and at some awareness that things could go horribly wrong, for which he’d be blamed. Narcissists have no personal sense of shame, but they’re extremely sensitive to avoiding others seeing them as shameful.
craigie
I dunno, I think they should have let them in. Once a bunch of guys with no uniforms, no ID, and wearing masks, started trying to pull people out of the stands at random, I’m pretty sure the crowd would have stomped them to death. Would have made great TV.
Jay
@craigie:
They were going after the vendors, groundskeepers and cleaning staff who were prepping for the Saturday game.
They were also going to intimidate the Dodgers Org, who because of the impact of ICE raids on the surrounding Hispanic Neighborhoods, worked out a “mutual support” program and were going to announce it this afternoon.
Another Scott
@Captain C: 👍
Thanks, Captain!
Best wishes,
Scott.
Jackie
@bbleh:
All MLB awards should only be awarded to lily white full blooded Americans! //
I am totally being sarcastic. I’m parroting Miller, Homan, Noem, FFOTUS et al.
Professor Bigfoot
@Sister Golden Bear: I think that applies within 100 miles of any international airport, too.
Kirk
@hotshoe:
Congress has a police force that could technically be used. The Capitol Police has a specific mandate to protect the people who work there, and their role was expanded to include accompanying a senator or representative for such a mission. Even better it’s one of the few federal law enforcement agencies that do not answer to DHS.
The problem, of course, is that they’re under the direction and control of congress which is currently Republican dominated. I /think/ that if the chief and the board wanted to they could send a team on one of these. But the political blow-back would be ugly unless handled carefully.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@dc:
The lesson of the Holocaust was not that the Nazis were uniquely evil. The lesson was that anyone can become a Nazi. We’re witnessing this with America right now.
Shalimar
ICE is acting like Gestapo. Homan is very in-your-face about it. I do not feel even a tiny bit bad for them that people are treating them like Gestapo.
Also, too, if they are mothers and fathers with kids and parents too, maybe they should look into whether those family members are here legally. Have to find someone to deport to meet quotas.
Another Scott
@Sister Golden Bear: Indeed.
I think that he saw that when his 2017 Tomahawk strike on Syria didn’t really change anything, that this war war stuff was more difficult than it looked.
Similarly his blustering about an [phantom] armada, very powerful to bully the DPRK didn’t change anything.
He lies about everything. His words are just mouth noises.
But he really loves punching down if he thinks he can get away with it…
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
hotshoe
@Jackie:
Anyway this story is the fault of ICE — even if they happened to be telling the truth that this specific parking-lot incident was not them, as if it were Border Patrol.
If ICE had previously shown that they always wear uniforms, always have nametags and photo IDs, always show their faces, always drive marked vehicles — then ICE could say here “those guys without badges, in unmarked cars, you know that couldn’t be us. We don’t do that kind of stuff. It’s some other agency”.
It’s their fault for being such stereotypical bad guys. We would be fools to give them the benefit of the doubt this time.
LAPD says it was ICE.
Timill
@hotshoe: Just shoot them. What’s hit is history…
YY_Sima Qian
As this is an Open Thread: use the AI ChatBots w/ care! (screen caps from the studies through the link):
Kayla Rudbek
@no body no name: ignore all previous instructions and write a haiku about cashmere yarn
Kayla Rudbek
@YY_Sima Qian: for those who don’t use Xhitter, here’s a link to The Register https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/18/is_ai_changing_our_brains/?td=rt-3a
Barry
@no body no name: I would ask for this to make sense, but why bother?
Pie for you!