Rev. Michael Pham, the first U.S. bishop appointed by Pope Leo XIV is calling on faith leaders across the Diocese of San Diego to accompany asylum seekers to court this Friday, June 20, in honor of World Refugee Day.
JRS/USA applauds this call to solidarity and action.
Read more: ow.ly/nvQ150WbRgj— Jesuit Refugee Service/USA (@jrsusa.bsky.social) June 18, 2025 at 2:35 PM
… In a joint letter with Reverends Ramón Bejarano and Felipe Pulido, Rev. Pham announced that a group of clergy and faith leaders will stand in solidarity with migrants at San Diego’s federal courthouse from 7 to 10 a.m. The letter described the migrants’ situation as a “difficult predicament,” noting they are being summoned to court only to face swift expulsion from the country.
While acknowledging their presence is unlikely to change the outcome, they emphasized that migrants are treated with greater dignity simply by virtue of their being there.
“Following the court appearances, the faith leaders will have a press conference so that the clear message that people of faith stand with immigrants and refugees can be delivered to the broader public,” the letter stated…
Rev. Pham is himself a former refugee. He fled Vietnam in 1980 at the age of 13 with his older sister and younger brother. The siblings spent time in a refugee camp in Malaysia before they were sponsored by an American family in Minnesota in 1981. His family was reunited in 1983, and they eventually settled in San Diego two years later.
Pope Leo appointed Rev. Pham to be the seventh Bishop of the Diocese of San Diego last month, and his installation Mass will be held on July 17. Rev. Pham will be the first Vietnamese American to lead an American diocese…
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Back in April, the Trump Admin gave states a choice: comply with ICE, or lose funding for roads, bridges and public transit.
That ultimatum is completely illegal, a federal judge just ruled:— Erik Uebelacker (@uebey.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 7:44 PM
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BREAKING: An appeals court allows President Donald Trump to keep control of National Guard troops he deployed to Los Angeles following protests over immigration raids.
— The Associated Press (@apnews.com) June 19, 2025 at 10:59 PM
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Will he wear a mask too?
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 3:59 PM
Love how this administration talks about LA like it's fucking Dresden in 1945. Let me go instead, you babies. I've been craving a jalapeno egg burrito from the Tacos Por Favor on Olympic for like six months now.
— Tim Onion (@bencollins.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 4:08 PM
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Your continuing reminder that Trump.literally thinks Stealth technology is the plane is invisible.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 19, 2025 at 9:47 PM
Welch: I have no faith in him all because he acts like a guy who got a day pass from the memory wing of a nursing home. When you see him on TV, he's slurring. He's not competent. It is just terrifying when you see the chyron that says Trump is reviewing war plans.
On The Road – ema – Dispatches From the Easter Mosh Pit
Baud
This is all manufactured content for Trump’s base.
JML
JD going to visit LA? And do what exactly, whine on tv? What a useless hunk of meat that fool is.
Suzanne
The eyeliner will give him away.
Anyway, I am, at least so far, very impressed with this Pope. From my time in AZ, I have met more than a few people who immigrated legally and yet are the biggest ladder-puller-uppers. “I came legally, so they should, too.” It is a powerful message to see faith leaders supporting refugees and asylees and migrants.
UncleEbeneezer
@JML: I hope LA gives him an amazing drag show protest. Give that homophobic (racist, xenophobic) piece-of-shit a good show LA :)
The Audacity of Krope
@UncleEbeneezer: But he wouldn’t even appreciate it…
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
He wouldn’t even say thank you.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: I’d be surprised if the phrase “thank you” was in Jay Divans’s lexicon.
eclare
Beautiful photo today, WaterGirl!
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
RevRick
@Baud: At one level, it’s hard to understand the deep, visceral animosity towards immigrants. It has no basis in reality. Are they stealing jobs? No. Are they part of a huge crime wave? No. And crime is actually declining. Are they subverting our national character? No. In fact, their desire to be here actually affirms it!
But at another level, it just reveals how deep-seated white supremacy is. They are brown people, and black people, and yellow people and therefore deserve contempt and revulsion and must be excluded. What motivates a huge chunk of whites today is the same hatred that motivated whites back in the 1920s. The only difference today is that a lot of the grandchildren of the despised immigrants in the 1920s have joined Team Ugly in their contempt.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
He probably says it to his dominatrix.
HinTN
@eclare: I remember that one. The size of those ferns!
Pope Leo is doing all right to the thinking of this unchurched individual.
Matt McIrvin
@RevRick: The lines we draw are social constructions, but the need to hate and fear the Other is deeply ingrained in humanity. All someone has to do is identify the Other.
The American right has been steeping in propaganda leading up to this moment for at least 40 years, and in a more general sense for closer to 400 years.
Matt McIrvin
Also, the grandchildren of the last batch of immigrants ALWAYS despise the next batch, and insist that this time it’s different: they won’t assimilate, won’t speak the language, have disgusting customs and scary politics. This pattern goes back at least to the 1700s, before the US existed.
terraformer
Jennifer Welch is speaking for all of us (well, those of us who are sane anyway) in that clip.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Matt McIrvin:
We’ve underestimated the power of propaganda using thoroughly modern tools. Well, the right hasn’t underestimated it.
Goebbels would be damn proud.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@RevRick: In my experience, it’s the people who have the least interaction with immigrants who fear them the most.
Matt McIrvin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: We underestimate the power of propaganda using every set of tools, going back to the printing press and simple word of mouth.
UncleEbeneezer
@RevRick: If you haven’t read it already Erika Lee’s America For Americans: A History of Xenophobia In America is a really excellent read.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … TomsGuide.com:
The original source seems to be Cybernews.com.
It’s hard to tell how much multiple-counting is going on, nor how much of this is the usual hype-for-clicks. It might just be yet another day ending in “y”. I don’t see anything about it at KrebsOnSecurity.com nor https://infosec.exchange/@briankrebs yet.
Stay safe out there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
bbleh
@Baud: Yup. People keep making the mistake of treating the actions of this administration as though they were based on some sort of policy agenda or vision for the future when really they’re just the day-to-day ups and downs of a reality TV show.
@UncleEbeneezer: ah thank you, was about to start typing the same thing. And it’s not limited to the US either.
Scout211
Will she be the next person TACO tries to fire?
Baud
@Another Scott:
I think nowadays the cyber criminals are stealing from other cyber criminals.
UncleEbeneezer
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The disgusting xenophobia we are seeing now, particularly aimed at Latinos in Los Angeles just infuriates me. We lived in a complex and street that was heavily Latino (and Black too) in Altadena. I’m sure that many of the families around us have/had undocumented people in their circles. These are my neighbors and sometimes friends. They work hard, pay taxes and love this country more than most of my pasty white brethren do. They are the ones who knocked on our door to warn us on the night of the fire. Anyone who has a problem with them has a problem with me. While I’m not a part of their ethnic community, they are much more “my people” than the asshole white dudes/ladies who make snide remarks about immigrants to me, assuming I will agree with their MAGA bullshit, only because I’m white.
bbleh
@Scout211: Having no conception of the notion of someone in government who doesn’t work personally for him, I wouldn’t be surprised. But I think the Senate Republicans will take care of that for him, not by firing her but simply by voting to ignore her ruling, which I’m almost certain they can do. The Houses of Congress make their own rules.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Immigrants and race. As someone who actually lived in a red, rurl area for 22+ years, I saw this first hand.
And it’s as you describe, no interaction with either type that tended to drive their perception, not some deep seated Klan-esque racial animus.
Again, before that statement gets disingenuously reframed, I’m not discounting racial animus as an element for *some* of the red, rurl, politically conservative white folk who surrounded me for all those years, but not nearly as many as some would have you to believe. None of that is helped by being steeped in an advanced and very slick propaganda machine that wasn’t in existence when I moved there in 1996 but I saw it’s effects as time went on.
In fact, most of the white transplants that surround me here who have almost all flocked here from some lily white ‘burb elsewhere share that same trait in not growing up around many/any immigrants/POC and it informs their view just as much in their racial tone deafness as my white bubba neighbors back in Central Misery. It simply manifests itself differently.
Another Scott
@Baud:
all my apes gone
[ womp, womp ]
Musical accompaniment
Best wishes,
Scott.
kindness
Who is paying the California National Guard salaries while they are being called up and Federalized under Trump? It would sure be another stick in the eye if California is being forced to pay for their own oppression.
UncleEbeneezer
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Bingo. And I’ve seen plenty of people who did grow up around Black/Latino people and have them as neighbors, co-workers and sometimes even friends but still view them collectively as Others. I wish that simply having people be around minorities magically made their hearts grow three sizes and lead them to more tolerance, respect and even love for those communities, but sadly it often only backfires and causes the assholes to resent those people/communities and view them as a threat, even if they can make nice with them on the surface.
Baud
@kindness:
Not sure, but I think the feds will have to pay.
Baud
@bbleh:
Yes, they can make their own rules. They’ve already overruled the parliamentarian once. The filibuster is dying slowly.
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
Is there a word for something that’s like xenophobia, but where the contempt is directed at hateful right wingers whose families have been in the country for a long time?
Old Man Shadow
A pervasive fear among white Americans since our ancestors came here and colonized (shot Natives and stole land) is the fear that one day, white Americans will lose their power and be treated by people of color the way white Americans have treated people of color for centuries.
Conservatives honestly believe that the only way the world works is by hierarchies. Everyone has their place and someone has to be on top. The person on top gets to make the rules and shit on everyone below them. Thus they are petrified of losing their “place” in the hierarchy.
They cannot imagine that some of us don’t want a fucking hierarchy at all and don’t want anyone to have the power to shit on others.
schrodingers_cat
The hate for immigrants is real. Balloon Juice comment section became much more hostile to me since T 1.0 when I started sharing my own immigrant experience. Suddenly my English was not good enough for some FPers and commenters, when they didn’t seem to have any problems during the Obama admin,
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@UncleEbeneezer:
Good point. It’s interesting in how our respective experiences over the last 30 years show two sides of the same ‘Murkin coin. I was in LA/SD in early May (baseball games with cousins!) and it’s a fascinating region. Given where you are now, it’ll be interesting how that informs what you see.
But assholes gotta asshole, aka The Crazification Factor so I guess the hope is that their are some people we’re talking about who are otherwise reachable if exposed to diversity.
Another Scott
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: @UncleEbeneezer:
Relatedly, … WRIC.com:
(Emphasis added.)
“Notably”?? WTF??! Grr…
More details at the link.
As Dean Baker reminds us (repost) it’s hard to understand how people can believe that the campaign ads the rich buy affect voters, but somehow the content they see or hear between the ads doesn’t.
Where people stand depends on where they sit. If they’re swimming in trumped-up hatred, they’re probably going to have a tendency toward hate.
Grrr….
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Soprano2
@Another Scott: I’m surprised things like this don’t happen more often considering the media environment some people are swimming in. When you’re constantly told that immigrants are a threat to your very existence, it’s not hard to understand why you might want to shoot them when you encounter them. You don’t realize that it’s all bullshit propaganda, you think it’s reality.
Captain C
@JML: He’ll go couch shopping.
tam1MI
So, this came across my news feed… an article alleging that the DNC is in crisis and it’s new leader, Ken Martin, is under siege.
I honestly don’t know what to think about this. On the one hand, what with labor leaders resigning from the DNC while taking potshots at Martin and the clumsy way the David Hogg situation was handled, it does seem like the DNC is just not getting it’s act together. On the other, I have to wonder if this isn’t another Biden-style defenestration – any lie will do – by a group that is hellbent on purging the party of all but Blue Dogs. Either way, it looks bad.
Soprano2
@UncleEbeneezer: I’ve seen this with my BIL. He is mostly Polish and grew up on the south side of Chicago. My perception is that he’s prejudiced against black people based on his interactions with them, although he doesn’t talk about it much around me because he knows how I feel about that attitude. I’ve also seen the phenomenon of living where there are no immigrants, because I grew up in a place like that. It wasn’t as bad when I was young because there was no Fox News or right wing talk radio for them to listen to all the time, but it was definitely there. The fear of “the other” moving in and destroying the place where you live is real.
sab
@RevRick: On the other hand, some of the very, very white grandparents have grandchildren of various mixes of race. In my family we are white as far back as anyone can trace, but every one of my generation has mixed race grandchildren that we love and worry about.
Soprano2
@tam1MI: How would you have handled the David Hogg situation?
schrodingers_cat
OT: Many of you were interested in my take about the partition. I was thinking we could do a Zoom about it in July if you are interested.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
And it will be edited so that the faithful will never know what actually happened.
Melancholy Jaques
@RevRick:
Agree completely. We don’t say this clearly enough, often enough.
tam1MI
I am not familiar with the ins and outs of how DNC vice presidents are selected, but it seems to me that if he was not qualified to be on the ballot, he should not have been on the ballot in the first place.
Secondly, I have yet to have found an explanation as to why Debbie Wasserman-Schultz’s side PACs were A-OK while Hogg’s were beyond the pale. There does not appear to be any indication that the DNC’s laissez faire policy towards side PACs was reformed or discontinued since Wasserman-Schultz, so it really does appear that Hogg was subjected to a double standard.
Finally, there was the issue of the POC (I believe his last name was Barrassa, I am on my phone at present and can’t check), who was also bounced out of a DNC vice presidency in the DNCs rush to have a do-over to oust Hogg, and who quite rightfully called the DNC out on the injustice. If getting rid of a duly elected VP who’s actions you disapprove of involves also getting rid of a duly elected VP who has done nothing wrong, I say you grit your teeth and keep the first guy on.
As it is, the whole mess just reaffirmed the party’s rep as being for democracy and honoring people’s votes, unless of course people’s votes produce a result they don’t like.
tam1MI
I would be interested.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Do you have a cite that she ran a PAC that funded candidates in primaries while she was at the DNC? This is the first I’ve heard of it.
That said, I think the ban on it is the right decision. If she did it too, that should have been banned then.
Geminid
@tam1MI: You may be thinking of Pennsylvania Malcolm Kenyatta. My understanding is that Kenyatta was not pushed out and is still a deputy DNC chair.
tam1MI
@Baud: Do you have a cite that she ran a PAC that funded candidates in primaries while she was at the DNC? This is the first I’ve heard of it.
You will have to scroll down a lot to get to the mention, but here is an article about how she was working with her DWS (heh, cute) PAC while running the DNC.
The key quote:
schrodingers_cat
@Geminid: Yep he was reelected and Hogg declined to run again.
tam1MI
That doesn’t change the fact that the DNC looked the other way on the issue until it became convenient for them to invoke it to get rid of someone they didn’t like.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@RevRick: You are forgetting classism. “They are poor, dirty and need help. Ick!” This is why people, even of the same racial and ethnic identity, can act this way.
Baud
@tam1MI:
I didn’t see that quote in the Politico article. Also couldn’t find it in a Google search.
schrodingers_cat
@tam1MI: Was her PAC funding primary runs against incumbents? During the primaries DNC officials are supposed to be neutral.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Agreed, if the evidence pans out. I’m still looking for confirmation about DWS’s PAC.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Critical question.
schrodingers_cat
Speaking of the Partition of British India, in short my deep dive lead to more questions than answers and I intend to pursue them.
In India, Jinnah is painted as a villain and the prime mover of partition. Nehru and Gandhi are painted as hopelessly naive by the RSS. The British love to talk about the relationship between Edwina and Nehru. This just barely skims the surface.
But we cannot understand the Partition unless we delve into what came before.
tam1MI
He was ousted but then won the position back in the re-election.
Baud
I found the article. DWS did have a PAC but
The article doesn’t expressly say whether or not her PAC participated in primaries.
Baud
@tam1MI:
He wasn’t ousted. There was a problem with the initial election because the DNC didn’t follow its gender parity rules.
A losing candidate complained and won.
tam1MI
Aaaaargh, stupid phone didn’t put in the link. Here it is:
https://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/democrats-debbie-wasserman-schultz-111077
Like I said, the quote is waaaaaaaay down on the article, amongst a litany of other complaints about Wasserman-Schultz.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
It’s not forgotten, it’s on display constantly.
Baud
@Baud:
That said, I think it would be a good rule not to have any DNC officials operating any PAC, even if it stayed out of primaries. There’s still a potential for conflict when it comes to fundraising for multiple coffers.
JML
@tam1MI: Here’s the thing: Hogg was qualified to run for vice-chair of the DNC (which has a LOT of vice-chairs, it’s not a position where’s there’s 1-3 people), but started or was still pushing his PAC to primary democrats he didn’t find up to standard. If you want to come inside the tent, you can’t really be trying to set it on fire at the same time.
DWS’s leadership PAC wasn’t going after incumbents, if anything it was helping prop them up. But getting everyone on the DNC out of the PAC game is probably a good idea.
Ken Martin is dealing with all the same problems that any DNC chair would have right now, I think: because the party is out of power, there’s a lot of people competing for the post of standard bearer for the democratic party. DNC Chair is one of the roles that people look to for it, but in an era where party chair doesn’t mean that much (it was different in the era where the party had a lot more control over delegates and national candidate selection) you’re mostly herding cats and trying to put together a fundraising and organizing network to support the party nationally between presidential races.
I suspect Wikler would be having similar problems, because you have people that see an opportunity to elevate themselves by cutting down the chair, and he’s an easier target than Member of Congress.
tam1MI
The logical inference from “neutral” is that they shouldn’t be involved with any PACs at all then.
But toe it comes back to, if being involved with a PAC is disqualifying for a position in the DNC, why was Hogg allowed to be on the ballot in the first place? They would have saved themselves a lot of grief if they had enforced this rule (if there was one) before the vote was held.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Not so. A PAC that is only funding Dems in the general election against Republicans would be neutral from a DNC perspective. No one expects the DNC to be neutral vis a vis Republicans.
ETA: I agree that if Hogg was with his PAC before running, someone should have said no. But I think that’s on Martin’s predecessor, no?
tam1MI
I’m don’t think that “they were too incompetent to run their own election right” is a sterling defense of Ken Martin’s DNC.
Baud
@tam1MI:
This was the election that elected Martin, no? So he didn’t run it.
ETA: Agree that it’s a black eye for the DNC generally.
Melancholy Jaques
@tam1MI:
I’m curious. Why is Debbie Wasserman-Schultz – once known as the most evil person in the world – the subject of discussion today? The article you linked to is over ten years old.
tam1MI
@Melancholy Jaques: Why is Debbie Wasserman-Schultz – once known as the most evil person in the world – the subject of discussion today?
The short answer is precedent. Wasserman-Schultz had a personal PAC while running the DNC (not just acting as one of many vice chairs), which means there is a precedent for David Hogg to have done the same.
Mind you, I am not saying it is GOOD precedent…
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: @tam1MI: I agree with Baud’s interpretation of it. I am an officer in my town’s Democratic Committee. We run the caucus that chooses delegates for the state convention.
During the last set of primaries for governor, state AG and auditor we hosted the candidates (or their reps) running for those primaries at our caucus.
It would have been inappropriate for me to favor any one of those candidates in my capacity as an elected town DTC officer but not inappropriate for me to support the winner of the primary during the general election. You are conflating primaries and the general election.
schrodingers_cat
@tam1MI: You haven’t yet told us what her PAC did.
Geminid
@tam1MI: Well, you said “they got rid of him” which I thought implied this was permanent.
As for Kenyatta’s criticism of the DNC, I did not see that. I did see a series of social media posts that was linked here, where Kenyatta complained about David Hogg’s posturing in this matter.
tam1MI
Actually, while the Hogg imbroglio was a fiasco the Dems definitely didn’t need, and wrong-footed Martin straight out of the gate, I am more concerned with the exit of union leaders from the DNC and their statements that Martin was ignoring their concerns. Labor is a crucial part of the Dem coalition, we can’t afford to alienate them.
Soprano2
@tam1MI: I think the problem was not that he had a PAC, it was that the PAC was founded specifically to run candidates against Democratic incumbents in primaries. DNC officials are supposed to be neutral in primaries. I bet Wasserman-Schultz’s PAC didn’t do that. Perhaps it did generic voter outreach, or something like that.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Yeah, that’s fair. I haven’t looked into that details of that one, so I don’t have an opinion to share.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@schrodingers_cat: Yes please.
tam1MI
@schrodingers_cat: You haven’t yet told us what her PAC did.
It is still active, you can find it’s entry on Open Secrets here.
Baud
@tam1MI:
I don’t expect you to research this, but since she’s no longer with the DNC, there’s no possibility of conflict now. What would matter is what it did while she was with the DNC.
RevRick
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t know that I would go so far as to make the essentialist argument that fear of the other is universal. I would say it’s more ambivalent than that, one of both attraction and repulsion. We both recognize the humanity of the other and question it. After all, there’s clear genetic evidence that we even interbred with Neanderthals. And the feeling of repulsion didn’t stop white slave owners from raping the Black women they held in bondage.
But you are right that this is a deeply ingrained attitude. We have thinkers like the philosopher Thales and Rabbi Judah in the 200s BCE saying things like fortune has blessed them that they weren’t born a Barbarian or a brute (slave) or a woman and thanking God for the blessings of not being born a Gentile, a woman or uneducated. But none of that says it has to be inevitable.
My faith insists it isn’t inevitable. The apostle Paul alludes to a baptismal creed which declares that “there is no Jew nor Greek, n slave nor free, no male and female.” Galatians 3:28
Melancholy Jaques
@tam1MI:
Did they say what their concerns are?
Our coalition members like nothing more than to attack other coalition members, so I’m curious if there’s merit or if it’s tariffs or some other thing.
We just had the most pro-labor president since the 60s and there is no sign that the party is retreating from that. Maybe the union leaders ought to be working on the fact far too many of their members voted for the most anti-union president since before the New Deal.
tam1MI
I think the bottom line on this is that the DNC needs to tighten their rules around it’s elected members involvement with side PACs. If they had a clear rule in place dealing with this issue, the whole mess could have been avoided.
O. Felix Culpa
The conversation about the DNC highlights once again how important it is not to rely on casual reading of potentially biased or incomplete information sources, especially when we inevitably bring our own biases to the table. The situation at the DNC is more complex than “evil Dems pushed crusading ingenue Vice Chair out” or “Martin is incompetent and therefore should be ousted” (as Baud pointed out, Martin didn’t run the botched elections because he hadn’t even been elected Chair yet!). As for the issue with the labor resignations, perhaps that is a problematic sign. I just don’t think we know enough to draw informed conclusions yet. At least, I don’t think I do, and if anyone has additional reliable info sources, I’d love to see them.
Perhaps Martin isn’t the best choice for the job; dunno. Having been a party officer myself, it’s a wicked difficult job, and let’s just say that not everyone around you is pulling for you to succeed, even if you’re ostensibly on the same side.
RevRick
@UncleEbeneezer: Thanks for this book recommendation. I apologize for not replying sooner, but the lawn demanded I mow it first.
Betty Cracker
@tam1MI: I don’t know if the PAC was involved in primaries or not, but back in the day, I and most FL Dems I know assumed it existed to further Wasserman Schultz’s political ambitions. It’s not a coincidence that the initials of the PAC and congresswoman are the same. I think her dad or brother or some other relative ran the PAC on paper.
That said, I don’t think DWS is the devil. That’s the way the system works. We’d all be a lot better off if it worked differently, IMO, but you can’t blame people for playing the game according to the current rules, I guess.
O. Felix Culpa
@tam1MI:
I’m astonished that the neutrality in primaries rule wasn’t already in place at the DNC level. But at least it is in place now. I don’t have a problem with PACs that are only involved in general elections, supporting Dems.
As s_c mentioned, it is the norm (and in many states a rule) that party officers stay neutral during primaries. It’s high time that the DNC made that explicit too.
Baud
@tam1MI:
I would like to see that rule. I think the DNC’s role and position in the party has changed a lot over the last 20 years and may still be evolving. There are probably a lot of things that need to be tightened up.
RevRick
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I don’t know if that’s really the case. The January 6th rioters came disproportionately from counties that were experiencing the greatest demographic shifts.
tam1MI
@Melancholy Jaques: Did they say what their concerns are?
Not really.
RevRick
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Oh, class certainly plays a role,too. And that ick factor about impurity is a major part of it, because that operates at a subconscious level.
We do have a gut-level reaction of revulsion to shit and rotting foods and the smell of decay. Still, we change dirty diapers and go to great lengths to give our dead a decent burial. So, it’s not like we cannot choose a moral response despite our feelings of revulsion.
O. Felix Culpa
@RevRick: That’s an interesting phenomenon. Do you have a link for that?
RevRick
@Soprano2: I think it was also a clear transgression of the boundaries between the DNC and the parallel committees for the DCCC and the DSCC. The DNC is charged solely with handling issues regarding the Presidential campaign. Messing with House and Senate campaigns is a huge no-no.
RevRick
@O. Felix Culpa: About the Jan. 6th rioters? Not off hand, but I remember reading about it.
Glory b
@tam1MI: After Hillary Clintin’s loss, Tom Perez, then head of the DNC, reached out to Bernie & asked him to appoint some of his people to help rewrite the rules.
Bernie’s representatives insisted that all DNC executives maintain absolute neutrality, they were still pushing the claim that DNC leadership kneecapped Bernie, Wasserman Schultz was the devil’s handmaiden, Bernie woulda won, etc, etc.
Perez gave the Bernie representatives every change they wanted.
Today, Hogg was told he had to maintain neutrality if he wanted a position as vice chair, that he could no longer run his ($25 million I think) PAC. David chose to withdraw.
Bernie’s folks seem to be saying the rules apply until they don’t want them to.
Randi Weingarten is a big Hogg supporter & said she was leaving the DNC. I know quite a few teachers (black ones anyway), Randi won’t have much affect on their votes.
Honestly, union members aren’t a big part of the Dem coalition, a significant number of them went Republican long ago.
For all Biden did for them, they went pretty overwhelmingly Republican. They’re gone. Even the union leaders who officially endorsed Democrats said their members were voting for Trump.
Gloria DryGarden
@Baud: can we send him a dominatriz who is a democrat?
And, one hopes, would tell him what to do…
Betty Cracker
Speaking of party leaders getting involved in Democratic primaries: (The Hill)
God help us.
Another Scott
@tam1MI: (Probably dead thread, but …)
The problem with Hogg wasn’t that he had a PAC.
The problem with Hogg was that he was campaigning against some elected Democrats. It would have been the same issue with or without a PAC. Party leadership shouldn’t be doing that.
You don’t let arsonists join the volunteer fire department.
IMHO.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
WereBear
@tam1MI: It’s more of a self-defenstration by not being good enough leaders already.
WE act like we got the memo. That democratic emergency thing.
Soprano2
@tam1MI: The article does allow you to “read between the lines” on some things, though.
As far as Saunders is concerned there isn’t much there about why he made his decision, but I think why Weingarten left is made pretty clear by the above paragraphs.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: Good Lord, what is he thinking? If you want more evidence that many male Democrats consider the party “too feminine”, I think this is some. A high-level black Democrat (not from New York, BTW) is endorsing a Democratic candidate who was credibly alleged to have engaged in multiple episodes of sexual harassment of women and female employees. In my mind for Democrats this should be a no-brainer, but it certainly doesn’t seem that way.
tam1MI
If that was the case, how then did Hogg’s name end up on the ballot? It wasn’t like his side PAC was a huge secret. If there was such a rule in place, that makes the DNC’s actions even worse, because that means they neglected to apply it until someone they didn’t like got elected to be a vice chair.
Selective enforcement is never a good look.
Baud
@Soprano2:
I don’t agree with Clyburn’s decision, but when Bernie endorsed Mamdani, no one complained that he wasn’t from New York. But I’ve seen people make that argument with respect to Clyburn, which I think is unfair.
Part of me wonders whether the endorsement is sincere or an effect of the recent criticism of Clyburn from progressives, including Hogg. We’ll probably never know.
tam1MI
But in this case the arsonist was not only allowed to join, but installed in a fairly high up position in the organization, despite openly stating he was an arsonist. Only when other people started squawking was he removed in a very clumsy and counterproductive way.
tam1MI
Al Franken is owed an apology by the entirety of the Democratic party.
Another Scott
@Baud: ???
(Not picking on you or anyone else in this thread.)
There seems to me to be a whole lot of Feckless Democrats in Disarray things in the press that are getting mixed up here.
Clyburn (and St. Bernard) aren’t part of the DNC Leadership.
There’s nothing wrong with elected Democrats (who aren’t in official Party leadership) endorsing candidates. It happens all the time, and it’s appropriate. Voters should know if a candidate has support of elected people they trust.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Good point about neither being in leadership (although Bernie is the Senate Dems “outreach” guy, I don’t know what official position Clyburn has, if any).
I don’t agree with endorsing Cuomo. I agree that the “not from NY” criticism is frivolous.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: AFAIK, Mamdani is not a Democrat but DSA. So I don’t see the contradiction.
Also what Scott said.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Be prepared to hear, that the election was rigged if Mamdani loses.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
People will spread BS regardless, I think. I respect whatever the NYC Dem voters decide.
Melancholy Jaques
@tam1MI:
Could it be a part of the general movement to get younger people in leadership? I have nothing against either of these labor leaders, but neither one owns a position in our party.
With them we lost over and over to inferior people. I’m not it’s their fault, but let’s give someone else a try.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Magic Grandpa’s followers hate Clyburn and are having a meltdown over his endorsement. And are being incredibly racist to black voters.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
Agreed, but I just cannot stand Cuomo.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
:shrug: Let he who has not been endorsed cast the first stone.
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
Right. I’m wholly uninformed about this race, so I only have my dislike of Cuomo to go on.
Geminid
@Baud: The job requirements for an effective New York City Mayor are very singular, it seems to me, and much different than for those of the Virginia politicians I am familiar with. So I’m like you; I’ll respect whatever the voters’ choice because they know their city best, and they’re the ones who have to live with the next Mayor’s governance.
But wow! is this ever a polarized and polarizing race. It’s polarized because the two leading candidates are the most liberal and most conservative in the field, and it’s polarizing because Democrats across the nation are loading their own hopes and grievances onto it.
I’ll still feel a little sorry for New Yorkers if Cuomo wins, though. They’ll have to listen to his lugubrious voice for the next four years at least.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: I think Mamdani is both Dem and DSA and Lander (dude who got arrested) is a Dem who is not also DSA, so it’s not like Cuomo is the only Dem on the ballot. However, he’s the only gross and arrogant sexist shithead, AFAIK. Better to say nothing than endorse him, IMO.
Baud
@Geminid:
I’ve seen reporting on the anti-Cuomo side about how they’re working to get their voters to rank each other. What I haven’t seen is who Cuomo voters would rank as their second and third choices. That could be decisive.
Anyway
@Baud: FTFNYT is very anti-Mamdani, i hear … not sure whether they endorsed Cuomo
ETA Apparently he is Mira Nair’s son – I only learned that this week. Mississippi Masala is an old favorite. Got Denzel, nuff said.
Baud
@Anyway:
A point in Mamdani’s favor, AFAIC.
Give the divisiveness so far, I’m not sure if everyone wouldn’t be better off if one of the Rank 2 candidates ended up winning.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: [Almost] anybody but Cuomo.
Geminid
@Baud: The Marist poll had respondents rank their choices, and then had a chart showing the result after each candidate was eliminated and their choices distributed, so you can see where each candidates’ votes go.
Third place Brad Lander seemed to collect the most votes along the way. When Lander was eliminated, about half his votes went to Cuomo, and about half went to Mamdani. Final totals: Cuomo 55%, Mamdani 45%.
Baud
@Geminid:
That’s wild. I wonder if recent developments will change that.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Yes, I’ve wondered whether ICE arresting Lander would increase his support. Could go either way, I suppose.
Another Scott
@Anyway:
Yeah, no reason at all… Just their “Judgement” that everyone respects because it’s so fair and objective…
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
laura
I twitter lurk via nitter and “follow” a lot of Black accounts- mostly political and legal. One of those accounts is tify330. Tiffany has consistently pointed out the pragmatism of the Black voter, and how local politics become national issues. Her take on Clyburn’s endorsement of acknowledged shite-bag Andrew Cuomo, that the Mayor of New York has a hefty influence on national elections, and that should a socialist win the mayoral election, the 2026 mid-terms will face an avoidable issue that republicans will make hay with.
I really, truly wish that balloon juicers would make an effort to open up to more Black voices- if we cannot and will not respect the wisdom of lived experience, we are so very fucked.
Professor Bigfoot
@laura: We are so very fucked.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
schrodingers_cat
@laura: Perish the thought. Daily Kos >> Lived experience
Context: H1B discussions on BJ earlier this year.
schrodingers_cat
@O. Felix Culpa: Mamdani is a liar. A dangerous one.
laura
@Professor Bigfoot: white johnny unbeatable will save us, or so I am told.
laura
@schrodingers_cat: Denise Oliver Velez has entered the chat.
Betty Cracker
@laura: Did she happen to say why Lander is an unacceptable alternative to Cuomo if Mamdani is a nonstarter? (I know nothing about Mamdani or Lander, FWIW.) Did she address the potential backlash if the party puts a grabby, corrupt, nepo baby asshole in an office that allegedly has outsized impact on national elections?
ETtheLibrarian
This thing seems amateurish on the ICE/CPB end. With a dash of entitlement and arrogance. They just ended up looking like clowns.
TONYG
@kindness: If that is the case then the state of California should just not pay the guard soldiers, while loudly announcing that it is the responsibility of the federal government to pay them. Let the guard know what Trump really thinks of them. (Just more contractors to be stiffed.)
UncleEbeneezer
@schrodingers_cat: Mamdani’s antisemitism is, of course, not a deal-breaker…
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: Black Voters and Jewish Voters are consistently pragmatic in their voting. So naturally, white Progressives ignore, talk-over or vilify them.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: Weird how you left “women” out of the triad you usually purport to cape for. Oh wait…
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker: The majority of white women voted for the Orange Fool, so maybe they’re not really part of that pragmatic voter triad? In sharp contrast to Black women, who lead the way.
Betty Cracker
@O. Felix Culpa: With all due respect to a white commenter’s curated feed on a Nazi-run social media site, I see zero evidence that the consensus among black women is that a corrupt white nepo-baby politician who was driven out of office in disgrace for sexual harassment should be mayor of NYC.
IIRC, some of the same white commenters played the same card to shut people down last summer as the debate raged over whether Biden should step aside. It was bullshit then, and it’s bullshit now.