one of the weirdest things going on is the national media's obsession with Joe Biden's fitness and mental health/strength combined with a near total unwillingness to cover his on-going public appearances.
— Henry (@henrythedog.bsky.social) June 20, 2025 at 10:33 AM
Daily Beast has (brief) video at the link:
… Joe Biden made veiled jabs at President Trump during public comments on Juneteenth, drawing a big laugh from a crowd when he made the sign of the cross instead of speaking his successor’s name.
Biden was at the Reedy Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Galveston, Texas, where he took part in a service and denounced “ongoing efforts to erase history.” The church was one of the sites where an order announcing the end of slavery in Texas was read, according to the church.
Biden, who made Juneteenth a federal holiday in 2021 to commemorate the end of slavery, said at the church that “the events of Juneteenth are of monumental importance to America’s story,” according to CBS News.
“Still today, some say to me and you that this doesn’t deserve to be a federal holiday. They don’t want to remember…the moral stain of slavery,” Biden said.
The former president spoke on the same day that Trump moaned that there are “too many non-working holidays.” …
=====
— Mike Luckovich (@mluckovich.bsky.social) June 18, 2025 at 1:52 PM
One of the funnier running subplots of the Trump era is that he hasn't won a Nobel Peace Prize, and it really eats at him.
— Gary Legum (@glegum.bsky.social) June 20, 2025 at 4:40 PM
War for Ukraine Day 1,212: More Russian Missiles in the Small Hours
dmsilev
Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize. I think that’s sufficient to explain that particular Trump obsession.
Chetan Murthy
@dmsilev: If we recover our Republic, I predict that our next President will -not- be awarded a Nobel Prize. That ship done sailed ….. and sank.
Jackie
Joe poking digs at FFOTUS while attending a Juneteenth celebration… Oh, Lordy, I miss Joe!!!
moonbat
I hereby predict that the Nobel committee will sooner commit collective seppuku than it will give 45 a Peace Prize.
ETA
And what really eats at him is that he can’t figure out a way to strong arm them into giving him one.
ascap_scab
I’d happily give him the rest-in-peace prize. Just croak already.
BellyCat
That cartoon says it all. Raygun’s late-stage performance is going to soon be, uhm…trumped.
prostratedragon
Joe Biden speaks in Galveston, Juneteenth 2025
prostratedragon
Warblewarble
Is there a Nobel prize for assholery, hes over qualified.
Baud
It’s not weird. That exactly what Republicans want the media to spend time on.
Matt McIrvin
Obama himself seemed kind of embarrassed about the Peace Prize, which makes it all the more childish that Trump has to have one.
Baud
p.a.
He’ll make up a Peace Prize and award it to himself.
Derelict
Bill Clinton is still alive . . . and remains completely silent about Donald Trump’s destruction of America.
George W. Bush is still alive . . . and remains completely silent about Donald Trump’s destruction of America.
Barack Obama is still alive . . . and remains completely silent about Donald Trump’s destruction of America.
Why are these men will not speaking out daily, forcefully, and loudly about this?
JoyceH
@Matt McIrvin: that was a weird Peace Prize because Obama hadn’t really done much yet, the committee seemed to give Obama the prize for Not Being Bush.
As for Trump, he was always so jealous of Obama that he couldn’t see straight. Obama had all that respect and gravitas and nobody respected Trump. Trump figured if he took Obama’s stuff he’d get the respect too. But then there he was with Marine One and the Resolute desk and he still wasn’t respected! So it must have been the Nobel, he just needed to get himself one of those!
Baud
@Derelict:
Probably testing to see who’s going to obsess about what they do rather than focusing on Trump.
satby
@Baud: actually, Clinton and Obama have both spoken about what’s been happening with the felon’s administration recently, so possibly the poster should broaden his sources for news rather than just rage click his priors.
Baud
@satby:
I knew that Obama had spoken because BlueSky was upset that it wasn’t enough.
JWR
@JoyceH:
Yeah, it always struck me as sort of aspirational, which I suppose is just a twist on the “he’s not Bush” reason for giving him the award.
satby
@Baud: nothing is ever enough, the message is never correct.
Gretchen
@satby: exactly
Baud
@satby:
Geminid
If they had one, I’d nominate Donald Trump for the Nobel Putz Prize.
satby
@Baud:@Geminid 👏👏👏👏
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Bingo!
mappy!
I’m not sure why exactly, something fleeting perhaps, but I get the feeling that the idea of a free press is a failed experiment.
The first press set up in Boston in the 1630s worked for the benefit of those in power. He who owns the press…
stinger
@JoyceH:
@JWR:
For being not-Bush and opposing the Iraq war, and to a degree for being Black and breaking the stranglehold of the white male grip on the US presidency. The Nobel committee and large parts of the world thought America was finally joining them in the 21st century.
lowtechcyclist
@JWR:
Engineering the agreement with Iran to keep them from developing nuclear weapons was arguably worthy of a Nobel, so he ultimately earned it IMHO.
Of course Hair Furor pulled us out of that deal because it was Obama’s deal, so he deserves a negative Nobel for that. He’d have to do something worthy of a Nobel (which he won’t) just to get himself back to zero.
Baud
@stinger:
The voters said, “Hold my beer!”
Princess
They gave a Nobel to Kissinger; Trump can’t taint it worse than that (so far…)
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Geminid: Trump probably doesn’t even qualify for an Ig Nobel Prize. (Things I learned today: there is actually an Ig Nobel Prize for Peace.)
Geminid
@JWR: The fact that Barak Obama was a Black man could also have been a factor in the Nobel award. That was a major, maybe even profound change not just for the US but also for the world.
stinger
@Baud:
Exactly.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: I think the JCPOA was signed in 2015, about ten years ago. Trump abrogated it in 2018. Now he and the people of the Middle East are facing the consequences of that blunder. It’s like Trump threw a boomerang off into the distance, and seven years later it’s coming back way bigger than it was when he tossed it.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Genius.
Professor Bigfoot
@Geminid: American white people have been doing their damnedest to make sure that no Black person ever gets to that office again.
Professor Bigfoot
@rikyrah: GOOD MORNIN’!!
WereBear
@Geminid: Maybe this was about the Democrats getting out in time, so that blame finally lands on the perpetrator.
It’s like those Deep South Courts who agree you didn’t do it but they still won’t let you out.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
The men folk have come together to make sure they don’t make the same mistake with women.
Derelict
@satby:
Clinton’s statement was so muted as to be non-existent. And Obama has belatedly spoken up, but even that was not as forceful as it could/should be.
Maybe it’s because I’m so weary with the top-tier Democrats being so non-responsive to the moment at hand. Everyone should be stampeding to every microphone to howl with rage. And I’m not seeing or hearing that from more than a handful of non-leadership Democrats.
Professor Bigfoot
@WereBear: Anyone taking bets on it NOT being the Democrats fault?
Because it’s ALWAYS the fault of the feckless useless Democrats.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Isn’t that the core of the conservative movement?
That white men should always be in charge of everything?
And don’t a LOT of liberals agree with them?
Sure as fuck looks that way.
But then, I’m a Black guy who obviously doesn’t understand the world and should just shut my fucking mouth— or get “buried.”
BellyCat
And Pennsylvania.
WereBear
@Professor Bigfoot: Oh, shills fallen upon hard times out there. That parade was a hard hard sell. One had to be drunk.
WereBear
@BellyCat: Pennsyltucky. We’re both right!
Geminid
@Geminid: Speaking of boomerangs, reports are that several boomerang-shaped B-2 bombers flew out of Whiteman Air Force base in Missouri last night, presumably headed for the general area of Iran. They were accompanied by 6-8 refueling planes.
Concurrently, a squadron of F-22 fighter jets has landed in Jordan and the USS Nimitz* carrier group will arrive in the conflict zone this weekend. It left the Pacific a week ago. The USS Ford carrier group will sail out of Norfolk shortly, headed for the Mediterranean.
I don’t know if the decision to enter the Israeli/Iranian war has been made yet, but the Trump administration is acting like we intend to intervene on Israel’s side, and maybe sooner than the 14-day deadline set on Thursday.
* The Nimitz is somewhat of a blast from the past. The ship was commissioned in 1975 and will be retired after this deployment.
The Nimitz figured in another conflict with Iran. In 1980, six helicopters loaded with hostage rescue teams flew from the Nimitz’s deck to a remote landing field in Iran. They hit a sandstorm on the way in. The helicopters did not proceed to Tehran and only five made it back to the Nimitz..
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Agree with? Maybe.
Use the fascist threat as leverage over others? Likely.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
I still remember waking up to that news. That was a painful moment.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve gotta find SOME way that whatever Trump did today is the fault of the Democrats.
TS
Australian press is full of trump says “My intelligence community is wrong.” talking about Iran & nuclear weapons.
Why do republicans want to start wars over non-existent weapons? I think I’m back with Bush II when I hear these statements. All those weapons of mass destruction that no-one ever found.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: I don’t believe it coincidence that they are almost ALL white men.
That’s the through-line too many people refuse to see.
Layer8Problem
@Matt McIrvin: That’s the spirit! Of course the Democrats have failed us, we just haven’t figured out yet how they failed us today. But Trump? Republicans? Hey, what can you do? Besides, if we protested them they’d get mad.
WereBear
And no one held accountable. We need a Truth & Reconciliation process yesterday.
Baud
@TS:
They’re voters need to feel under constant threat, which leads to their need to hurt someone.
O. Felix Culpa
@TS: Republicans just want to start wars to kill brown people and mooslims. The non-existent weapons provide figleaf of cover for their wars of choice.
MoCaAce
@stinger:
Professor Bigfoot
I completely agree… but the majority of white Americans have absolutely no interest in truth or reconciliation.
Propaganda and dominance.
Professor Bigfoot
@Layer8Problem: Figure out how? Nah. It’s the Democrats fault, period. We don’t need no stinking evidence!
BellyCat
@WereBear: LOL
satby
@Derelict: already answered this at #20.
BORING!
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: I well remember arguing with my white-guy co-workers about Iraq; and how they dismissed everything and were absolutely eager to see the bombs start dropping.
They didn’t feel threatened.
They wanted to throw some little country against the wall to show that they could.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: A painful moment, and maybe a historical inflection point.
Before it was diverted to the Middle East, the Nimitz had been scheduled to arrive at Da Nang, Vietnam on June 19. The several-day port call was intended to highlight security cooperation with Vietnam.
That’s another echo from the past. Our war in Vietnam ended fifty years ago in 1975, the same year the Nimitz was commissioned.
Professor Bigfoot
@satby: Boring, most certainly; but boring because it’s such a bog-standard white guy attitude.
Tiresome, annoying, but they’ve got the money and the power so we’d all best bend the knee and start doing things the way THEY want us to.
Maybe get ’em a nice mint julep and a big porch to sit on while they watch us.
lowtechcyclist
@Professor Bigfoot:
Might as well give up, then. Realistically, there’s not a damned thing to be done, right?
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
I don’t know. I think deep down many of those tough guys are extremely insecure and frightened of the world.
Layer8Problem
@lowtechcyclist: I actually don’t think the Professor has given up.
Nancy
@Professor Bigfoot:
To show they could–classic bullying behavior. Of course it probably wasn’t your co-workers coming back with TBIs and missing limbs.
Tom Friedman announced that the US had to act like a bully every few years. No wait–he said tell them to “suck on this.” I found the quote: Nick Gillespe, Reason, 5/14/2014
Tom didn’t volunteer to help bully Iraqis either.
Professor Bigfoot
@lowtechcyclist: IF you only depend on white people.
If they’re the only people you listen to, the only people you care about, the only people with any power or control, then yes, you’re right.
But since I’m not white, I don’t depend on you people. I don’t trust you. I don’t believe you. And I’m for goddamn sure not going to take your advice and use it.
Layer8Problem
@satby:
Not to worry, these guys must have an emergency backup political party in their back pockets, a party of self-evidently correct messaging behind which we will all joyously march to usher in our shining millennium of political peace and progress, a new Era of Good Feelings. Or not.
Or, you know, they could stop whinging about how the Democrats’ messaging is a total uninspiring FAIL no matter what and actually direct their attentions to Trump and Republicans, the ones damaging everything.
Gvg
Sadly I have the impression that former President Clinton’s health and possibly mental alertness have declined to the point that it won’t help anything to have him speaking out in public anymore. I maybe wrong, but that is what I suspect. Hillary speaks up quite well but Bill has been declining for years and it’s not all trying to let Hillary speak for herself. So I won’t be demanding he speak up.
If you check though, almost everyone anyone demands “why hasn’t so and so spoken up? “ has, it’s just the media has chosen not to cover it. Important people can’t get heard when they say certain things, but trivial remarks get in the news. So check, and assume no news doesn’t really mean silence anyway.
Scout211
Speaking of compare and contrast, there’s Kamala Harris and then there is JD Vance. Vance came to California and spoke to the press :
. . .
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: OF course they are.
But they are also members of The Cult of the Gun.
American white men love guns as a symbol of their power; and a weak man can pull a trigger just as easily– maybe MORE easily– than a courageous one.
See also American policing.
Professor Bigfoot
@Layer8Problem: Or maybe they just need to take their pale, pink, pasty asses on over to The Party of the White Man and shut the fuck up.
YY_Sima Qian
After getting roasted at the WHCD by Obama, Obama is still living rent free in Trump’s head.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: PERFECTION!
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I saw a lot of MSNBC the last couple of days. They think the Democrats need to go on Joe Rogan and Theo Von more.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I don’t know who Theo Von is.
Going on Joe Rogan oddly unites the center and left white males in the party. I think both Bernie and James Carville have suggested it.
Geminid
@Professor Bigfoot: I remember people saying back in 2003, “We should have finished the job the first time!” They were referring to the first Bush’s “failure” to take Baghdad during the first Gulf War.
These were White men of course.
A lot of them were singing a different tune a couple years later. They could see there were reasons why the US did not to take Baghdad the first time.
Layer8Problem
@Professor Bigfoot: Yeah, for all the good they do. “Democrats might do more good, but they just don’t inspire, so I’m joining the bad guys. You can’t fight a tidal wave. Besides, these Hugo Boss uniforms are really slimming!”
Another Scott
@Gvg:
Eh?
Bill Clinton apparently did an interview with CBS Sunday Morning in early June (yahoo link)
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
Ugh. It’s June 21. There are darker days ahead.
m.j.
Primary Colors.
Spanky
@Baud:
What goes around comes around.
sab
@Baud: You sound like Mario Cuono in his prime.
bjacques
@Princess: I came here to say that.
“They only give the Nobel Peace Prize to liberals.”
Crispy Kissinger says “wha?”
stinger
@Gvg: Agree with both your paragraphs.
There is this odd thing going on, where we expect former presidents, who are no longer in politics, to be party leaders and spokespersons, and at the same time we want the Olds to go away and let young people lead the party.
Baud
@sab:
At least I knew better than to have kids, who would never have been able to live up to my legacy.
YY_Sima Qian
Japan is getting impatient w/ the incessant attempt at coercion by the Trump Administration:
O. Felix Culpa
@lowtechcyclist: QED.
Honus
@Professor Bigfoot: Thomas Friedman came right out and said it. Remember Suck On This?
UncleEbeneezer
@YY_Sima Qian: I’m sure he was even before that. Obama was rightfully admired and adored in a way that Trump never will be. Obama (like Biden, Kamala, Hillary) is a decent person and admired for his excellence. Trump hates anyone like that.
Professor Bigfoot
@Another Scott: Yeah, I see what @Gvg is saying; but I think it could also be, “Hon, you go deal with those stupid MFs today. I am just not up to it.)
chemiclord
@Derelict: Bullshit. The instant they do what you want, they are told to sit down and shut up and let someone else take point. Ex: Every time Kamala Harris has opened her mouth since Trump’s inauguration.
Nothing will ever be good enough for you because you want a very specific message from very specific people, a message you’re never going to get from those people because they fundamentally disagree with your vision for the future.
Matt McIrvin
@JWR: It also gave critics of Obama’s continuation of the Afghanistan war a ready-made opening: “Nobel Peace Prize recipient Barack Obama drones another wedding party,” etc.
Another Scott
Good for Biden. More, please.
Meanwhile, to resurrect that dead horse downstairs … Marist.ed NYC mayor poll, collection ended on 6/12:
Way down at the bottom:
That last bit would seem to me to be in Cuomo’s favor. While I generally strongly dislike ambiguous questions like that (do they mean doing too much or not enough??), this would seem to more likely indicate a desire to turn a more conservative direction (“it was better back then than it is now”) than a more liberal one. Or they are tired of “outsiders” (like the current Adams) and want a more conventional candidate.
:-/
The fact that voters claim they are paying attention is good, but it also will indicate that the result will reflect the voting majority’s choices (especially with the ranked choice system). For good or ill.
Whatever the outcome, I would hope that there aren’t any major “independent” spoilers later.
The primary is this Tuesday June 24. Fingers crossed.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Professor Bigfoot
@Layer8Problem: <confession> I always wanted one of those full-length leather greatcoats like a German Feldmarschal. ;)
The evil bastards were some *sharp dressed men,* no lie; one of the smaller crimes I shall ever hate them for.
ETA: It occurs to me that the Americans go the exact opposite way. Someone said the latest USAF officers uniforms looked like airline captain uniforms. “We are NOT Nazis!”
Harrison Wesley
@Geminid: I don’t recall where I read it, but Seymour Hersh claimed US is going to hit Iran this weekend. I hope he’s wrong.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
So, Obama’s still betraying us all these years later?
Geminid
@Gvg: Bill Clinton has weighed in on the Israeli/Iranian war. He must have made the remarks recently because the video is just now circulating on Middle Eastern news sites. The part that’s getting attention is where Clinton says Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu is prolonging these wars in order to stay in power.
This is hardly breaking news, but it means something extra coming from a former US President, and it’s a good time for people in Israel to hear it. There was a lot of exhilaration there during the first few days of this war, but now they can see it turning into a slog. As Israeli journalist Noga Tarnopolsky* told France24 English:
That was a day ago, and these questions may be more acute after Iran’s attacks over the last 24 hours. The Iranians fired some of their more advanced missiles and scored hard hits on Tel Aviv and Haifa.
A spokeman for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps said they had substituted quality for quantity; having used older inventory to deplete Israeli defenses, they fired some of their good stuff and scored.
This was despite Israel’s claimed “air superiority” over Iran. But air superiority is somewhat of a misnomer when you’re talking about a country almost four times the,size of California, much of which is a thousand miles or more from Israeli air bases.
* Fun Noga Tarnopolsky facts: Tarnopolsky was born in Switzerland, and is an Amherst grad.
Melancholy Jaques
@Professor Bigfoot:
I had one like that. It was too heavy. Went with a leather car coat.
Another Scott
@Harrison Wesley: Hersh is 88.
He’s been wrong about things in the past.
One of the things I dislike about the Lefty McLeftists is they find someone who was right about one (or a few) things decades ago and hold them up as infallible oracles to bludgeon anyone and any policy they disagree with. No matter what else they’ve said or done or been wrong about.
YMMV.
I don’t think 47 will do anything overt until the USS Nimitz is in position and prepared. Maybe that will be in the next few days. After that, I don’t think anyone knows what 47 will or won’t do. Loomer or catturd2 or some other rando could say something that makes him decide one way or another. Or not. He’s an unstable chaos agent.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Best wishes,
Scott.
LAC
@stinger: Bingo! I thought errrybody was to step aside and let wave of Pod Save America/ Ezra Klein approved generic non melanated leadership take over with messaging. Democracy saved!
lowtechcyclist
@Professor Bigfoot:
Well, you’re saying that all the conservatives plus a lot of liberals want white men to remain in charge of everything. How does listening to someone else change that? We’ve had plenty of ‘someone elses’ saying for most of my lifetime that that’s not the way it should be, and you’re telling me that all the bad guys plus a good chunk of the putative good guys still are all for keeping it that way. Believing that the people with power and control are wrong doesn’t change the fact that they’ve got power and control.
I’m not giving up, and I’m sure you’re not either, but I’m having a hard time distinguishing some of the things you say from a slam-dunk argument for giving up.
stinger
@Baud: For me, one of the saddest days of the year.
Captain C
If they did that they’d have to admit that they totally blew it in their coverage of him, and in many cases did so intentionally.
JWR
@Geminid:
Great. So I guess his “decision” will rely on who he talks to last. It’s gonna be “Hello, Vlad” or “Hi, Bibi”, and we’ll see where the chips land. I like to think he won’t do it, but that’s my hopeful side peeking out, and just maybe someone in the military will have the sense not to follow bad or illegal orders. Have you seen those 30K bombs? That’s some Deep Penetration going on there, and Donnie may not be able to resist going for it. :(
@Honus:
Oh boy, do I! I remember being at my next door neighbor’s place, because she had cable, and there was good ol’ Tom saying just that. He also said that, for some odd reason, these people just hate us and there’s nothing we can do about it, while on the big screen behind him, they were showing one of those MOAB’s blowing the top off one of their mountains. Great way to make new friends, right, Tom?
@Another Scott:
QFT.
Professor Bigfoot
@lowtechcyclist: I will not close my eyes to the demographic evidence before me.
Likewise, LIKE MY MOTHERFUCKING ANCESTORS, I will not give up.
The meanness, the entitledness, the softness of the majority of white men is the result of literally centuries of white male supremacy; so much so that most white men never examine the role of whiteness in their lives, their choices, their beliefs, their votes.
Am I to believe a phenomenon that captures nearly two thirds of that particular demographic has NO pull on the remaining third?
Give up? Fuck no, I will die fighting. But I recognize the enemy for who he is.
Harrison Wesley
@Another Scott: I want Hersh to be dead wrong on this. There is nothing good that can come from our jumping aboard the war train.
Professor Bigfoot
@Melancholy Jaques: Sometimes, ya gotta forego comfort for the look. ;D
Professor Bigfoot
@Harrison Wesley: I’ll bet that makes a whole lot more than two of us.
NOTHING good can come of American interference in this war… well, it would be good for Russia, wouldn’t it?
Fuck.
Eyeroller
@Captain C: I never saw any original quote by Jake Tapper admitting that he “hates Democrats,” I only saw it mentioned here, but it sure seems plausible. No doubt many of us have long suspected that a large fraction, likely the majority, of the elite political press shares that attitude. Their coverage of Biden in particular was relentlessly negative at least since the Afghanistan withdrawal. Just constantly pounding that drum, for over two years. The debate was just the opportunity to send that into overdrive. And it wasn’t just Fox News et al., it was the NYT and WaPo and CNN and the major broadcast networks. Not many people actually read the NYT in particular, but they set the tone and parameters of a lot of “mainstream” coverage and have for decades.
lowtechcyclist
@stinger:
In the case of Obama, at least, there’s no contradiction. He was born in 1961; he’s 15 years younger than Trump, Clinton, and Dubya, all of whom were born in 1946; eleven years younger than Schumer, 21 years younger than Pelosi, 19 years younger than Biden. If he hadn’t already been President, he’d be in his political prime right now.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: Mark Bowden wrote a good book about the whole Iranian hostage incident, “Guests of the Ayatollah”. It was gutsy for Carter to greenlight that, because they gave it a 5% chance of success.
dww44
@Geminid: Sometimes one does reap what one sows. Tragically, though, it comes with the loss of too many innocent lives.
schrodingers_cat
Nothing about T2.0 is entertaining or funny to me. Didn’t like the original, hate the sequel.
jonas
@Derelict: Just for the record, Barack Obama spoke a few months ago at Hamilton College here in upstate NY and, from what I was told (it was not televised) was pretty unequivocal in his remarks about the threat Trump poses to democracy.
Geminid
@Another Scott: I can’t say this for a fact, and I know it runs counter to popular conceptions,, but I don’t think people like “catturd” or Laura Loomer have infuence on this decision. From what I can tell, there’s an inner circle of Trump, Vance, Witkoff, Rubio and Wiles deliberating over it. CIA Director Ratcliffe, Joint Chiefs Chairman Caine and CENTCOM Commander Michael Kurilla also have input.
Now, there are political dimensions to the decision, and right wing influencers like Loomer might figure into them. But this problem is a major challenge to the Trump administration, and it won’t be solved in the MAGA world. It’s a real-world problem, and Trump’s team knows they have to solve it in the real world.
I’m not saying they will solve it successfully but I think they’re taking the problem very seriously, if only because the political risks of failure are high and they know it.
Betty
@Captain C: But then you have another Daily Beast headline chastising Joe because people complained that he was talking on the Amtrak quiet car. According to Sherilynn Ifill, this is inaccurate. She said people on the train were happy to see Joe and wanted to talk to him while he ate his ice cream. So the media does cover him sometimes, just not usually in a positive way. Of course, the story included a picture of the ice cream eating.
jonas
@YY_Sima Qian: Trump is always demanding allies spend more on defence — which, to be fair, Democratic presidents have done, too — but with absolutely no intention of any corresponding reduction in *our* defence spending, which is the real issue. Spending 3.5% of your GDP on the military sector in peacetime is ridiculous. Apparently, that’s a third rail more powerful than SS and Medicare combined, now, though.
Matt McIrvin
Murc over at LGM (who was never a partisan sycophant, in fact would probably be regarded as a nutty far-leftist here) famously observed years ago that media and even online discourse revolves around the law that “only Democrats have agency”. One of the correlates is that it’s impossible to conceive of someone like Barack Obama speaking out and just getting buried on page A23, even if that’s what’s happening. It must have been some failure on his part.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I doubt it’s so much that they’re taking the problem seriously–they never take anything seriously. It’s that MAGA world is actually split over this one, so there’s no automatic MAGA answer.
Which is interesting, because of late any time the Israel-Palestine conflict becomes relevant, it’s an unqualified win for their side because it splits us down the middle, but not them. (The paleocons who are anti-Israel because they’re antisemites are pretty marginal, even under Trump–even most of their alt-right antisemites are pro-Israel, as an “ethnostate”.) But our potential involvement in this Israel-Iran war, that’s another story.
jonas
But Trump doesn’t strategize like a normal president, asking what’s the risk in relation to our country’s vital interests, etc. Instead, he asks what’s in it for him. What course of action will make him look good vs. risks making him look “weak”? I’ve always had the impression that Trump pulls back from serious military commitments at the last minute because he’s scared shitless of having to answer for losses, casualties, etc. if something goes wrong. The last thing in the world he ever wants to do is have to greet caskets at Dover AFB. Not because it’s a tragic loss of life, but because he’d have to be seen near the bodies of “losers.” By contrast, military parades are safe — he gets to be near soldiers marching past him and *act* like a medal-festooned caudillo without actually risking blowback (other than for being a wannabe military strongman asshole).
Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist: I’ve always thought of Obama as an honorary GenXer, regardless of what the demographers say. Something about his attitudes to the world, for better and for worse, feels like my g-g-generation.
Matt McIrvin
@Professor Bigfoot: Even people who might have been for this kind of thing in the abstract (and even most of the neocons who were jonesing for past US wars in the Middle East often regard fighting Iran as a dumb idea) have got to be chilled by the prospect of Trump and Whiskey Pete running US involvement in a major war.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty: One of the weirdest things that happened during the Biden presidency was the sudden declaration of the unmanliness of eating ice cream, a thing that I’m pretty sure did not exist before that moment, but Biden did it on camera so there had to be something wrong with it.
Geminid
@jonas: Trump is not operating by himself; from whst I can tell, Rubio, Vance, Witkoff and Wiles are in on the decision-making. Susan Wiles is very aware of the poliical ramifications of this decision, and she swings a lot of weight with Trump.
Another Scott
@Geminid: Nobody’s who’s not there knows for sure of course.
Given what we know about the Signal debacle on the Yemen attack, I’m not sanguine that any “deliberation” at all is happening.
On Loomer, Forbes.com (from May 11):
I haven’t found any information about Senate confirmation hearings for her, so who knows when there will be a vote.
About 85% of 47’s decision-making is based on “owning the libs” and keeping MAGA on-board so that he maintains their adulation. Loomer screaming about these things is definitely something he’s keeping an eye on, and has to feed into his “decision” on what to do, or not do, with Iran, IMHO.
But, we’ll see.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
jonas
@Matt McIrvin: Before that, it was apparently ordering dijon mustard on a deli sandwich.
Diet Cokes and cheap, overcooked steaks with ketchup? Now there’s a real man’s meal.
YY_Sima Qian
@jonas: Trump is demanding US Allie’s to spend 5% of GDP on defense, & yet remain auxiliaries to the U.S. military.
Leaving aside whether spending 5% of GDP is politically feasible or economically advisable for most U.S. Allie’s, if they actually spend that much & strain significant independent military prowess, they will be dependent on & thus less aligned w/ the U.S.
YY_Sima Qian
@Geminid: Are you sure you are not sane-washing the Trump gang here? If Wiles is so astute & influential, where was she during the trade & tariff boondoggles?
jonas
Not exactly names that inspire confidence. I don’t know anything about Susan Wiles, but I have to assume because she works for Trump, she’s massively unqualified and/or ignorant about any of the basic facts pertinent to this crisis.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: If (when) Trump decides to go in, I’m sure 99% of the MAGA folk will have been for this all along.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: My impression is that SecDef Hedgseth has been put on the shelf so to speak, at least for this operation. He’ll make public statements as the Defense Secretary, but the operation itself will be run through Joint Chiefs Chairman Cain(sp?) and CENTCOM Commander Michael Kurilla.
Back when the US began its bombing campaign against the Houthis, the notorious Signal chat exposed a lack of professionalism among key administration officials including Hegseth. What struck me though was how these officials were not in the command loop. They were kibbitzers, trading gossip about an operation that was being conducted by CENTCOM Commander Michael Kurilla.
YY_Sima Qian
Looks like the theocratic regime in Tehran is also preparing for the worst:
jonas
@Another Scott: Can you imagine the political shitshow that would ensue if a Democratic president ever nominated a New Age woo peddler like Casey to be SG?
I’m also old enough to remember when planting a vegetable garden in the WH lawn and encouraging kids to eat healthy was nothing but jackbooted fascism. Funny how times change.
stinger
@lowtechcyclist: I’m well aware of the first president younger than me! But he’s eligible to draw Social Security and, more importantly, he’s out of politics.
YY_Sima Qian
@YY_Sima Qian:
Should be “allies”, & “attain significant independent military prowess, they will be less dependent on & thus less aligned w/ the U.S.
Damned iPhone autocorrect!
Professor Bigfoot
@Matt McIrvin: One would think, but you know, DEI, right?
It’s simply unpossible a lantern-jawed white man like Secretary Kegsbreath could possibly fail, and drag us into a world-wide conflagration! Only those DEI people like the previous Secretary would do that, amirite?
Glidwrith
@TS: Why do republicans want to start wars over nonexistent weapons?
Probably because they are cowards and gross incompetents.
Same reason they laquer layers of horseshit onto a molehill, making a mountain, then pretend to solve the problem.
They can’t actually solve problems because they have no knowledge or ability to do so.
Geminid
@jonas: I’m not trying to inspire confidence. I’m saying the decision making here is more tightly controlled than one might think if they were just extrapolating from the last Trump administration.
As for Susan Wiles, your judgement of her is, as you admit, based upon prejudice. This is a common aspect to this crisis. There are longstsnding problems coming to a head that many people have paid very little attention to until now. Similarly, there are key actors people are hardly aware of, and Trump’s Chief of Staff, Susan Wiles is one of them.
JoeyJoeJoe
@Scout211: I’ll assume that no reporters asked the spokesperson what crimes Senator Padilla committed.
Another Scott
@YY_Sima Qian: 47 probably figures that everyone that isn’t Xi or VVP has to come to him, begging to buy his twin-engine Super F-55, steam catapults, Monongahela Steel ingots, and so forth. Since such things are at the mercy of US restrictions on spare parts and use, he figures he is in the cat-bird seat.
He can’t think more than one step ahead…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
shitforbrains isn’t childish, he’d have to grow up for that. But this is a human being that believes he is the very top of the heap, all the while proving that the pile he is the top of is a heap of the first part of my name for him. And he’s aged out, like many humans do as they get up there in that aging bit. You know the ones that have zero concept of reality.
Only thing is he has is zero understanding of who and what he really is, so he keeps trying to prove that he isn’t the person that he proves (and actually knows!) he is every damn day. Which is why he keeps trying to prove he’s not.
Captain C
@Betty: “While several people who talked to him seemed happy, the people three cars over, who were totally independent and not Republican operatives*, said that Biden was annoying everyone, which must be the truth.”
*narrator: “They were 100% Republican operatives, and the reporter knew this at the time.”
YY_Sima Qian
Excellent article from the Guardian on the challenges of putting Fordow permanently out of commission, even if using the GBU-57 “bunker busters”. Thus, the possible use of B61-7/-11 Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrators, which the Guardian calls “tactical nukes”.
Here is an excellent thread from Jeffrey Lewis on what these “tactical” nukes really are:
The fact that such scenarios are not being unequivocally rejected out of hand is madness: If Trump uses a “tactical nuke” to destroy Fordow, Putin will start to drop tactical nukes on Ukraine.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: I am describing what I think I see in reporting from qualified journalists. I know my analysis runs counter to popular perceptions, but I reject the suggestion of “sanewashing.”
As for Susan Wiles, she is astute and influential, and she’s astute enough to understand that her influence over Trump has limitations and she has to work within them. That’s how she’s lasted four years with him, first as campaign manager and now as chief of staff.
Wiles keeps a low profile, which is one reason she’s kept Trump’s confidence. When Politico Magazine profiled Wiles in April of last year, they titled the article, “The most feared and least-known political operative in America.” There’s some hyperbole there, but maybe not that much. Wiles might be the second most powerful member of this administration after Trump, yet many people are hardly aware of her role.
Wiles’ political experience goes back to Ronald Reagan’s first Presidential campaign, in 1980. Wiles was just a year out of college so she played a junior role in that one, but by Reagan’s 1984 campaign Wiles had made a reputation as someone who could “make the trains run on time.”
Interestingly, when Reagan retired, Wiles served as his chief of staff until he was so far gone he didn’t need one anymore.
Wiles spent the next three decades working in Florida politics. Her biggest success was managing political newcomer Rick Scott’s two successful campaigns for Governor, in 2010 and 2014. Florida was a 50-50 state back then and as a politician, Rick Scott was by no means a “natural.” Wiles helped Scott win close elections decided by 60,000 and 66,000 votes out of well over 5 million votes; the kind of elections won by “making the trains run on time.”
Wiles kept out of the spotlight during last year’s primaries and general election, but she was instrumental in Trump’s win. There, the challenge was keeping the train on the track. And for all the problems Democrats had, Trump’s victory was by no means certain. It took skill on that side, and Wiles provided a lot of it.
I realize many Democrats are reluctant to concede any kind of competence to the other side. We find comfort in looking down on them. But it’s never a good thing to underestimate your enemy.
I think the worst thing about that right now is that we tend to exaggerate our own weaknesses and failures, and not to appreciate our strengths and successes. We underestimate ourselves because we have underestimated our enemy.
But this is an argument for another day.
TONYG
@moonbat: Trump should just have a gold-spray-painted plaque made, and have it awarded to him at Mar-A-Lago. He can call it the Noble Piece Prize. The idiots in his cult won’t know the difference. At this stage of Trump’s dementia, he himself might not know the difference.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: I could not read the whole article and I don’t know if Ms. Fassihi mentions the unexpected loss of President Raisi and Foreign Minister Abdolhasmolin(sp?) in the helicopter crash last Spring. I read in an account of Iranian politics that Raisi was thought to have been Supreme Leader Khameini’s most likely successor.
Khameini had a difficult recovery from abdominal surgery in September of 2023, and the succession question was a salient one even before the current threat of assasination.
Another Scott
@Geminid: Made me look.
WSJ via Archive.IS (from May 29):
(Emphasis added.)
They take everything very, very utmost seriously. Except when it comes to using secure communications tools and protocols that are required. Oh, and all the other things that they decide they don’t want to do.
[ groucho-roll-eyes.gif ]
I don’t see much evidence that she’s more competent than the rest of them, myself. Your mileage varies, and That’s Ok!
Best wishes,
Scott.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Well, I guess that incident says it all!
But I don’t expect people here to take what I say seriously anyway, not when I contradict convention wisdom. I’ve come to understand that people can be very comfortable in their prejudices.
Harrison Wesley
@Geminid: I take her competence very, very seriously. Somebody who can get Mr.Medicare Fraud elected governor in a state full of Olds has talent. Unfortunately she’s on the other team.
Sherparick
@dmsilev: This is it. Obama received a Nobel Peace Prize so he is entitled to one.
Geminid
@Harrison Wesley: Mere empirical evidence. Have you heard Josh Marshall say Susan Wiles is competent? I think not!
Ruckus
@Derelict:
They respect the office and the country. And see that many, many people see who and what he is. And it is not just them that need to say something – it is all of us, but remember that people voted for him – again. Enough people to get him elected. Now if we think he’s actually worse than his first run through – and I do, we are the one’s that have to say that. Those men you mention understand that while their voices may carry a lot of weight, they are EX presidents and citizens. The rest of us who are citizens – the vast majority of the people living here, we are the ones that have to say something. Because this is OUR country. But he was voted back in office, he had a majority. Now if enough citizens, and yes, including the 3 you mention, want something done it is all the rest of us that need to say something. Because those 3 men hold no more actual power than the rest of the citizens. A louder voice yes, but actual power, no. And as it always is, we ALL are the ones that have to speak up. And enough of the citizens did – when they voted for him. You and I may not appreciate that vote – and I’d bet a lot that we don’t, but that is the way it works. Now if enough of the people on his side of the aisle join in, it is very possible that this injustice can be answered, but I’m not holding my breath.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
I’d add swear words but your’s is better!
Ruckus
@mappy!:
What do you call what we are doing here?
This is a voice.
You want an even better one, call your congress reps. Let them know how you feel. Because they are the way out of this, other than time.
No One You Know
@Derelict: I can’t judge what public servants are responsible for– but I can speak up, donate, mail, sign petitions, paint posters for marches. That’s all in my control.
No One You Know
@Geminid: Women are routinely underestimated for their ability. I don’t underestimate Susan Wiles. Men who do won’t see what’s coming, and attributing success elsewhere misses the target entirely.
Wiles worked, and works, hard, because she can’t help being very aware of just how incompetent most of the men around her are, as well as how much power they have. She’s the one who walks softly and carries a stick.
YY_Sima Qian
@Geminid: That is all evidence of Wiles’ abilities in electoral politics, which is clear as she got Trump reelected despite his transparent baggage & shortcomings. However, where is the evidence of her influence in domestic & foreign policy since 1/20? Skill in one area does not always transfer to other areas (such as administrative/bureaucratic shepherding or policy analyses/advice). I don’t see experience in policymaking in her CV, regardless of area, so where is she getting the information input to help to drive to some semblance of rational process & outcome? The cabinet officials are mostly utterly unqualified, & DOGE has purged or driven away many of the technocrats that staff that support the bureaucratic process. Why would it more than garbage in garbage out, despite her best efforts?
Just about every process toward a decision & every decision made has been shambolic, different parts of the Administration constantly undermine each other, the vast majority of which are deeply detrimental to the interests of the US, as the decline of Trump’s approval ratings have shown. To the extent that the Trump Gang had been effectively in implementing its agenda, it is because of completely disregard for popular opinion (attacking Iran has low support even among the MAGA crowd), constraints from rules & norms, unlawful behavior & daring the judicial branch to stop them (& often ignore the rulings when they do). They have been helped by a Repub controlled Congress that is largely MIA, & a reactionary dominated SCOTUS that is at least partially complicit.
Out of all of the chaos & damage caused by DOGE, the ICE raids, gutting federal investment on STEM, wild swings in trade/tariff policy, where do you see Wiles’ presumably steadying influence? Again, I am looking at the output. Either what we see (the chaos, the incompetence, the predictability), does bear imprint of her influence, in which case what does her astuteness matter (since we get all of that from Trump himself)? OR she can serve as no more than a speed bump despite her best efforts, so why would it be different this time?
Another Scott
@Harrison Wesley: @Another Scott:
Today, er, yesterday was yet another example of my needing to learn to be more circumspect. It’s an incomplete skill for me, still.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.