bsky.app/profile/warr…
— dianecheyanne.bsky.social (@dianecheyanne.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 2:43 AM
===
So they're gonna be reading for awhile, then a little admin business, then 20 hours of debate.
However, the GOP will almost certainly cede all their time, so it's only 10.
Vote-a-rama probably between 10 and midnight EST— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 9:42 AM
===
Leadership will generally be whipping for favored amendments as part of the bargaining process. So what exactly is going to come into existence is still a bit up in the air.
Medicaid looks potentially set, energy credits in particular don't.— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 9:45 AM
===
“No question — this is definitely the biggest cut. It’s the biggest rollback in federal support for health care ever”
the incomparable @larrylevitt.bsky.social
“You can very safely say this is the biggest cut to programs for low-income Americans ever”
me
@jeffstein.bsky.social on what's at stake— Bobby Kogan (@bbkogan.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 12:56 PM
===
mike johnson doesn't give a shit
— jamelle (@jamellebouie.net) June 28, 2025 at 7:55 PM
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News: Dems want Byrd Bath meeting with parliamentarian on using current policy baseline (ie assuming expiring tax rates would be continued and don't cost money) for the tax cuts bill
It could tank bill but probably won't happen; Rs likely to have Graham determine budget baseline— Burgess Everett (@burgessev.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 11:16 AM
===
This is a nuclear option. Senate Rs want to violate the Byrd rule by creating long-term deficits, using 312 of the CBA to assert that they aren’t
But they know the parls will say they can’t do that
So Rs are refusing to meet w/ her so they can pretend they didn’t ignore her when they do it anyway— Bobby Kogan (@bbkogan.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 12:06 PM
===
But in reality, this is just procedural gymnastics to ignore the parliamentarian while pretending they aren’t.
So, Senate Republicans are making up their own cost estimate of their bill – against what the parliamentarian would say. And they’re doing it so they can break the rules of the Senate.— Bobby Kogan (@bbkogan.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 11:33 AM
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I assume that Murkowski will find a way to get to yes. If she wanted to vote no, she would have.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 1:35 PM
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Shock announcement: NC Senator Thom Tillis just announced he is retiring, less than 24 hours after he opposed starting debate on his party’s mega bill.
His seat is up in 2026, and having it be an open seat sure changes the calculus and Democratic chances of flipping it.— Taniel (@taniel.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 1:34 PM
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I have to assume it was a final acid test to see if he had cover to kill the bill. If nobody else stepped up, quit.
— Clean Observer (@hammbear2024.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 1:45 PM
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What Lisa Murkowski is watching
— Eric Michael Garcia (@ericmgarcia.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 11:34 AM
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But also remember that when the Republicans’ execrable trans athlete bill came up that all 47 Democrats voted against letting the bill advance, which was effectively a filibuster, & killed the bill.
Remember that Dem electeds have _already_ been fighting (& when possible, winning) for what’s right— Dana Houle (@danahoule.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 1:07 AM
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There’s a reason Republicans don’t want to hold any town halls…
— Senator Angela Alsobrooks (@alsobrooks.senate.gov) June 28, 2025 at 8:56 PM
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The Senate version in particular looks like a bill designed to be too-unpopular-to-pass but since none of the Republicans have any courage or principles they just keep marching forward.
— Craig Harrington (@craigipedia.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 9:31 AM
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The Senate GOP bill would increase deficits by $3.3 trillion despite having the largest Medicaid & SNAP cuts in history
If temporary provisions are made permanent, it costs $4.5T
This isn’t shared sacrifice where everyone chips in – it’s cuts to the poor, benefits for the rich, and higher deficits— Bobby Kogan (@bbkogan.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 10:57 AM
===
Honestly if this bill passes as is I don't think we have any good idea of what ''26 is going to look like. Massive red state industries are going to collapse, especially in GOP areas. Rural healthcare is going to be toast and it's going to pull Micropolitan areas under.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) June 29, 2025 at 2:08 PM
===
Bottom feeders who deserve to be pelted with rotten fruit…
TAPPER: Are you guaranteeing that these changes you are voting for will not hurt recipients in Alabama of Medicaid or food stamps for those who are citizens and truly need it and deserve it?
BRITT: Absolutely. What you are talking about is able-bodied, working-aged Americans without dependents— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) June 29, 2025 at 9:13 AM
Hey Lurkers!
Hunter Gathers
Gonna be interesting when CNN joins Trump in calling all the hospital and nursing home closures ‘fake news’.
Lapassionara
The Republicans have realized that they can lie without paying any consequences.
Galaxy Being
Are they playing chicken with their majorities or is this some kind of death pact? There was a post on I think on reddit, where someone compared Trump to Jim Jones, but the one difference would be that Taco would charge you to drink the Kool-Aid.
dc
Everybody deserves food, health care and a roof over their heads. Even these asshole
NazisMonstersRepublicans. Going for the “need and deserve” bullshit like bullshitter Tapper does is a misdirect and a mistake.Another Scott
The bill is a disaster and will kill people. Grr…
But we have to be careful about the details.
As I understand it, some/most of the cuts don’t kick in for a few years. If that is the case, screaming about the cuts happening immediately is going to make us look like we’re lying. And normies who aren’t paying attention seeing that little has changed for them aren’t going to be convinced that huge cuts are baked in.
E.g. KFF analysis of the bill as of June 17 (see the table at the bottom).
We need to get this right, especially these days when too many refuse to listen to us.
Thanks AL.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Agree. We’re always living in the predictive future rather than in the here and now.
Scout211
And also too, that standing up to Trump in support of their constituents is a one way ticket out of office. At least for Thom Tillis.
Splitting Image
I agree with the comment that there is no way to game out 2026 if this passes. Herbert Hoover won the 1928 election with 40 states and 58% of the vote. I understand there was some buyers remorse.
This is going to be almost like Hoover tanking the stock market deliberately.
H.E.Wolf
I’m writing postcards to FL Democrats, right through to the midterms, to help increase the number of Democrats using the FL Vote By Mail option (which increases the likelihood that a person will vote). If we get a blue wave, FL Democrats will be ready to surf it.
Anyone else who wants to do this, buy your postcards stamps before July 13. Prices are going up. Buy now and get a bargain when you use them!
RepubAnon
@Galaxy Being: I expect the MAGA crowd thinks that anyone who dies from lack of medical care, or is bankrupted by medical bills, won’t be able to meet the ever-stricter voter registration requirements. So, no consequences.
Alternatively, they may also think that the ICE police may expand their role to include suppressing dissent. Say, by arresting any reporters committing treason by criticizing Trump.
Hunter Gathers
@Another Scott: Even if the cuts are pushed off a couple of years, rural hospitals that are just hanging on are going to have to start winding down immediately. Loosing those funds, even two years from now, means they are done. Hospitals just don’t up and close one day. It takes years for that process to complete.
Betty Cracker
It’s remarkable how unpopular the bill is even though Repubs are lying about it 24/7, along with their propaganda outlets. It’s a raw deal, and if the polling above is accurate, all but the cultists know it.
I’m terrible at predictions (especially about the future!), but we might see a massive spike in primaried incumbents next year. Not just against Repubs.
Jackie
@Scout211:
I sense Tillis’ heart isn’t in it anymore, anyway. And now he can fight FFOTUS all he wants with a smile.
brendancalling
@Galaxy Being: they’ll keep their majorities. I have no doubt about that.
Splitting Image
@Hunter Gathers:
I’m particularly interested to see where the backlash goes when (and if, I suppose) it happens.
I think people are right when they say that a lot of MAGAts will never abandon Trump.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t turn on every organization that helped persuade people to vote for him. Especially organizations that MAGAts hate already.
Josie (also)
Republican Senator Tillis of North Carolina just said he will not run for re-election. Trump said last night he would primary Tillis. Tillis said he would enjoy spending time with his wife (the love of my life) and grandchildren. I think those words were aimed directly at Trump. Tillis is a no on the OBBB.
Hunter Gathers
@Splitting Image: You can’t propagandize your way out of pulling a trillion dollars out of healthcare. Everyone is going to feel the effects of it – rural, urban, rich, poor, it doesn’t matter.
The talking heads at Fox News and CNN are going to Praise Dear Leader no matter what.
If you watch CNN, you’d think Trump had Bush After 9/11 support.
Scout211
I’ve wondered that myself because it really does seem as though the GOP leadership doesn’t really care if they lose their majority, especially the House majority. If they lose, they can spend the next two years and the 2028 campaign blaming Dems, because that is something they do extremely well, with the help of their media enablers.
ETA: and blaming Dems for legislation that they themselves wrote into law is powerful campaign fodder for the MAGA voters in a presidential election year.
Splitting Image
@Josie (also):
Not to give anyone false hopes, but if the GOP were sure of having 50 votes without Tillis and Rand Paul, they needn’t have put any pressure on Tillis at all. J.D. Vance is probably aching to step on a few babies’ heads on the way over to break the tie.
There is still probably a better than 50% chance that it passes 51-50, but somebody else in the caucus must be wavering.
Baud
@Splitting Image:
Yeah, if this fails, it’ll be bigger than the Obamacare repeal failure during Trump I.
Baud
This bill is so bad not even Fetterman is supporting it.
Galaxy Being
@Baud: That’s surprising, I thought he was he was Taco’s Mongo
Steve LaBonne
Everybody saw that the parliamentarian nuked the tricksy Alaska cutouts that Murkowski negotiated? Hilarious that she sold her soul for nothing (and fucked over other red states in the process.
Nukular Biskits
@Lapassionara:
And, for the most part, our supposedly liberal media refuses to call them out on it.
Baud
@Galaxy Being:
I had hoped that Manchinema would be the last of their kind among the Dems.
But then and now, the worst Dem is still better than the best Republican.
Betty
@Baud: Ouch, but I get it. I blame the stroke.
daveNYC
Shenanigans to ignore the ruling of the parliamentarian. Wish the Democrats had been willing to do that.
Probably the worst part of this is the increase in funding for ICE, because those extra hires are just going to be brownshirts for the administration.
Good times.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@daveNYC:
They wouldn’t have been able to get away with it.
Galaxy Being
@RepubAnon: That’s true they are delusional , but Trump always offs more of his own followers than anyone else.
RevRick
@Baud: I will probably come out ahead financially from the tax cuts, but as I stated in a letter to the editor of our local paper, it feels like I am handed thirty pieces of silver* to betray the poor and future generations. Ads have appeared on Philadelphia TV praising Rep. Ryan MacKenzie (my Rep) for supporting the bill with all sorts of misleading claims about its wonderfulness.
The cuts to Medicaid and SNAP are designed to punish working moms, who will struggle to meet the work requirements, childcare and the onerous paperwork. And gutting all the climate change incentives will make the future worse.
*The price of a slave (Exod. 21:32) and the amount allegedly paid to Judas Iscariot to betray Jesus (Matt. 26:15)
Lacuna Synecdoche
Schnorkles O’Bork via Anne Laurie @ Top:
Problem is, most of the cuts are scheduled to start, or ramp up, in 2028 – long enough to get past 2026. And just in time to blame Democrats if we win Congress in ’26 and/or the presidency in ’28.
Or, alternately, long enough for R’s to rig elections enough for them to believe the electorate can’t vote them out of power.
Galaxy Being
@brendancalling: That’s a depressing, but all too possible.
Baud
@RevRick:
Me too, thanks to my Alaska whaling side hustle.
Take the money. Continue to work for the poor and future generations.
Galaxy Being
@Scout211: Yeah, this whole thing has really shown that the media has is worthless.
daveNYC
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: What’s the worst that would have happened? Maybe they lose control of the government in the next elections?
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I thought an increase in Democratic primary challenges was a given after last November. That was a demoralizing loss, and it was inevitable that many Democrats would blame it and it’s consequences on the Democrats who were elected..
Plus, there are people inside of or adjacent to the party who were dissatisfied with leadership even during Joe Biden’s first two years, when the party was talllying legislative and wins.. Following Rahm Emmanual’s dictum, these folks are not going to let a crisis go to waste.
I’m sceptical though, as to whether there will be very many successful primary challenges. I still think the real action be in the open-seat primaries. There should be at least 25 of them due to retirements or bids for higher office.* I think those will be the hardest fought primaries.
* Reps. Angie Craig (MN), Haley Stevens (MI) and Chris Pappas (NH) are running to fill open sears Senate next year.
Captain C
Mike Johnson is a sociopath who probably watches porn that’s so depraved it’s illegal, and likely with his son. Also, in the bottom skeet, is it Tapper or Britt who’s the bottom feeder, or both?
Captain C
@Hunter Gathers: CNN’s motto: We make Soviet-era Pravda look accurate and honest.
pat
I just don’t understand why anyone would want to do this. Gut health care, destroy the climate, send thousands of innocent people to gulags in foreign countries where they might never again be free…. How can anyone be so cruel, so stupid, so malevolent, so sadistic?
And give all our money to the people who already have most of it. What sort of satisfaction do the people who vote for this get out of it?
different-church-lady
For about the 900th time: it’s a cult of personality. Cults of personality do not operate under normal rules of cause and effect.
different-church-lady
@pat: “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
Baud
@pat:
Most people aren’t like us.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: How did Obama get elected twice?
Jackie
Didn’t FFOTUS say this a week or so ago? And, didn’t border czar Homan ignore him?
I don’t think Homan gives a rats ass what FFOTUS says, and will continue to arrest immigrants with impunity. He’s in Miller’s and Noem’s camp.
mayim
The cruelty is the point. That’s the only answer that makes any sense at all.
And that’s the biggest difference (as far as I can tell) between the Republicans and Democrats ~ one party tries to reduce cruelty and the other seeks to increase it.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
My guess.
Incredible charisma.
McCain blew handling the economic crisis.
Higher black turnout.
Lots of people projecting their political fantasies onto Obama.
Bush fatigue
For 2012, I think it was mostly higher black turnout and charisma, and Romney’s unique attributes.
Jay
Video at link,
bsky.app/profile/iwillnotbesilenced.bsky.social/post/3lso2pjiqc22e
Just saying,………………………………….
zhena gogolia
@Baud: You mean 2012.
ETA: I also think that social media and Fox weren’t so a) shameless and b) pervasive.
ETA: Of course, to a sane person, Romney is 1000 times more attractive than Trump.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Thanks. Fixed.
Bill Arnold
@brendancalling:
So you’d make a bet where you pay 20x if you’re wrong, and the counterparty 1X if they’re wrong? Free money, after all.
A Bet is a Tax on Bullshit (2012)
Geminid
@different-church-lady: There is an interesting question about next year; that is, how many of Trump’s voters will still come out to vote when he’s not on the ballot? I think base mobilization could be a bigger challenge for Republicans than for Democrats.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@daveNYC: Who said anything about consequences? It just wouldn’t have happened.
kindness
Just wait till the farm sector figures out that with the dismemberment of SNAP and USAID, the government won’t be buying their products any longer and they have to find new customers for all that excess supply. There is going to be a spiraling down they won’t be able to blame on Joe Biden (but they’ll try).
NotMax
Old Schoolhouse Rock: “I’m just a bill.”
New Schoolhouse Rock: “I’m a sh*t bill.”
//
satby
@kindness: the farmers at the Farmers Market where I sell passed around a petition last week opposing the SNAP cuts, because they get lots of business from a matching grant in IN doubling the face value of coupons purchased through SNAP for locally grown produce and food like milk and eggs. Pretty much all of them are Republican voters. I just laughed. Before and after I signed, because I oppose the cuts too, but they knew exactly why I was laughing at them. I think they were sending it to their MAGA Senators. In vain.
Jay
@kindness:
Screen shot at link.
bsky.app/profile/iwillnotbesilenced.bsky.social/post/3lsr26mrxpk2k
Summary, Nebraska, migrant workers have fled the state causing State Tax income to crash and crops to rot.
China has cancelled $2 billion dollars in soy bean orders with the crops already planted.
Nebraska is going to lose $15 billion dollars in ag sales, and $350 million dollars in taxes and the State is facing a massive deficit.
Gov. Pillen, (R-Ghoul) is begging Taco Don for a bail out.
Baud
@Jay:
No one said owning the libs would be inexpensive.
satby
@kindness: and they’re still dealing with their old customers (like China) switching to new suppliers (like Argentina and Brazil) after the felon’s last time at bat.
Darn.
Baud
@satby:
Well, ain’t that a kick in the truck nuts.
I’m glad you laughed and they knew why.
satby
@Baud: oh, they knew exactly why. I’ve been there, flamingly liberal, for almost 8 years. And outlasted every other vendor in my category. While helping them when they’re short staffed and swamped. And wearing my public face, which is (😒) cheerful.
Kelly
Last week I explained the Byrd Bath, Reconciliation and the Senate Filibuster to liberal but normie Mrs. Kelly. Yeah in that order. One thing led to another. Her response was “You can’t be serious”.
Now I’m reading of some kind of maneuver to I guess arbitrarily declare the bill won’t increase the deficit but not ask the parliamentarian so R’s can say they didn’t contradict the parliamentarian. To which I say “You can’t be serious”.
cain
@Splitting Image:
The idea is that they pass this shit bill with delayed implementation and then when the Dems take charge they can be blamed for it especially if the GOP holds one of the houses. They can block everything and then lie without consequences.
The voting public are desperate and will make emotional decisions and will be happy for anyone to solve the problem and will give control back to the GOP who will do the same stupid shit.
This movie keeps replaying.
It works because the Dems are predictable.
Professor Bigfoot
@zhena gogolia: Hard work and luck… but that’s why we’re dealing with Trumpism now.
Conservatives will destroy the Constitution they claim to revere because it permitted a Black man to be elected President “over them.”
It’s really that simple— they are making absolute damn sure that they are never “ruled over” again by their lessers.
The Roberts Court predates the Trump Regime; as does McConnell’s Confederate leadership of the US Senate… and they made no bones about it.
They failed to stop him. Then they failed to make him a one-term president. So now, it’s time to make sure nothing like that ever happens again, even if it means the 1787 Constitution has to die.
”We The People,” indeed.
satby
@cain: The DEMs are predictable?
Not the Rs, not the dishonest media, not voters who don’t even bother to understand how government works or how bills get enacted; blame the Dems.
Now that’s pretty fucking predictable.
MazeDancer
You know what’s great about Lara Trump running for Senate in NC?
Means they’ll have to have mid-terms.
Professor Bigfoot
@cain: It works because Americans are fucking stupid.
mrmoshpotato
@MazeDancer: Who is GUMS’ wife running against?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jackie: Homan probably figures Trump will change his mind in the next two days and scream at him for not doing the deportations.
eclare
@mrmoshpotato:
Hopefully former governor Roy Cooper.
mrmoshpotato
@cain:
The problem is the goddamn, fucking pile of shit Republican party! Has been for 45+ years!
Archon
@Jay: Wouldn’t surprise me if implicit in this bill is that red state farmers will get a massive bailout if and when it’s needed, likely right before the midterms.
JMG
The people here who think Republicans can blame Democrats for this are wildly wrong. Look at the current polling. Most people think this bill sucks, and they know exactly who’s passing it. I will also add that many of Trump’s voters are cult members, but the Leader won’t be on the ballot in ’26, nor in ’28, if he lives that long. The coronary arteries can be cheated for only so long.
Archon
@Professor Bigfoot: The fascinating nature of white supremacy, at least in America is the number of white people prepared to be collateral damage in its cause.
Splitting Image
@cain:
The thing is that, as Hunter Gathers explains above, this is getting implemented not when the GOP says the cuts take effect, but when the hospitals and nursing homes that are going to have their funding taken away decide to cut their losses and run.
A lot of things are going to happen here that are outside the GOP’s control.
mrmoshpotato
Deleted. Confusing Roy Cooper with pedo Roy Moore.
John Revolta
Was Britt using her Fundy Baby Voice when she said that?
Omnes Omnibus
I swear to fucking Christ that reflexive cynicism and the concurrent urge to blame Democrats are the biggest obstacles we face.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@cain: So advocating for and doing the right things is being “predictable” now?
This country has to do something about the far-left and the far-right if it ever wants to truly progress. Trying to recode shit to fit twisted and perverse ideals is fucking everyone over.
Steve LaBonne
@Archon: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” – LBJ
Jackie
Just read FFOTUS has started attacking the Senate Parliamentarian. Posted on his social media minutes ago:
Haven’t seen Steube’s comments; maybe on FAUX? MTG is also caterwauling about the Parliamentarian.
cain
@Professor Bigfoot:
They’ve already destroyed Christianity by merging it with capitalism. The goal is not to be a good person but to collect wealth, mindlessly attend church, and then on your death bed say you are really sorry all the unchristlike things you did eg not following any of the commandments and then go to heaven where if you are white male you are getting laid every day
Jay
@satby:
I thing that cain meant that the Democratic Party follows the rules and the norms, and as a result, are “predictable” where as the ReThugs breaks the rules and norms all the time in ways that can’t be predicted, eg. ignoring the Parliamentarian and stuffing the OBBB with Byrd Rule violations.
eclare
Deleted.
mrmoshpotato
@John Revolta:
You mean her porn whisper voice?
Steve LaBonne
@cain: “I’m not perfect, just forgiven.”
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s very obvious around here, which I assume is a microcosm of the wider world.
mrmoshpotato
@eclare: Mixed them up.
MagdaInBlack
@mrmoshpotato: You may get your hope from a previous thread: we have thunder in the NW suburbs.
mrmoshpotato
@Steve LaBonne: Do you listen to the Professional Left podcast?
Jay
@Archon:
That’s still 2 years of losses, permanent loss of more markets, and during Taco Don’s first term, the bailouts went to Big Ag and just covered losses, not lost profits.
IDK, like the Border Governors and the Tourist States begging Canadians to come back, FAFO.
cain
When I say that Dems are predictable I am saying that from the GOP viewpoint. They know exactly how the Dems are going to act. McConnell especially. Stole two SCOTUS judges from us.
The GOP is really good at this. We mock them but they are getting their goals accomplished.
It’s going to all end in a dumpster fire but like retail investors that’s a problem for the next quarter.
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: I think that the practicing Christians on this blog would take issue with that.
Steve LaBonne
@mrmoshpotato: I don’t listen to any podcast. I like to read things myself.
cain
@Jay:
Yes exactly this. I’m not blaming Dems for following procedures and rules. They are supposed to do that. Should still do that but they are predictable in the eyes of GOP strategists
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe people would be less cynical if Dems would drop the cynical arguments.
Oh, we need to neglect these human rights so we have the voter support for different human rights we swear we actually support, scout’s honor. And if you don’t support us, and only us, you’re a monster.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: That is certainly a take. Not one I would agree with.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: Never read Balloon Juice before, huh?
Ella in New Mexico
I don’t understand all these assholes repeating talking about the only people who will get knocked off Medicaid are “able bodies unemployed adults” have not been told that pretty much only non-able bodied, non-employable or elderly unemployed adults with disabilities currently get Medicaid.
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: The fact that those two things are so similar says a lot about the men for whom that voice is intended.
H.E.Wolf
@Omnes Omnibus:
Indeed. Particularly given the fact that – to take just one example of many – the Black Protestant denominations are full of devout and faithful practitioners who neither look, nor believe, nor act like the “Christian” stereotype being described.
…my Quaker relatives don’t bear much resemblance to that stereotype, either. And they are Christians with a capital Christ. :)
mrmoshpotato
@Captain C: True. On a related note, have there been any news stories about what porn Mike Johnson and his son are currently looking at?
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
They might but I’m not talking about them or the myriad of liberal Christian denominations.
Ultimately, the people who are both evangelicals and Trump supporters are creating the kind of toxic atmosphere that reduces the attractiveness of Christianity. They have turned themselves into the public face of American Christianity by working closely with right wing politicians, super PACs and influencers.
The number of people who don’t identify with any religion will continues to increase.
That’s my impression. Also see
pewresearch.org/religion/2025/06/09/religiously-unaffiliated-population-change/
cain
@mrmoshpotato:
Tapper will have a book out when it doesn’t matter anymore
JMG
@Splitting Image: I have read that Medicaid funding has been used by hospitals to pay debts. Capital debts run over a longer period than congressional budgets, so the cuts will have immediate effect as creditors suddenly fear they won’t get paid back in 2028 or whenever.
MazeDancer
@mrmoshpotato: Full field not announced.
Tillis just opted out today.
But no GOP will run against Lara. And every Dem will want to.
WaterGirl
@Interesting Name Goes Here: Is that really true about the far left?
I’m guessing the far left is maybe 1%.
Now the far right yeah, they are the spittle-flecked people who have gone made over the edge, mad with hate. That’s why the right needs to be defeated.
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: I think people would have fewer objections to what you just wrote than your previous comment.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: Has even one commenter on Balloon Juice suggested that we sell anyone down the river in order to get back in power?
I submit that the answer is NO.
cain
@MazeDancer:
And if she loses it will be rigged and he will have Bondi to investigate.
Ella in New Mexico
@Geminid:
Do you remember how many down ballot Rep seats flipped in Swing States to Dem last year even though Kamala supposedly was just left off their voting choice to lose to Trump? He didn’t pull as many people as anyone think while he was at the head of the ticket.
It’s only going to get worse, I’m guessing.
tobie
@Omnes Omnibus: there’s a name for the strategy. It’s called “What-aboutism.”
Another Scott
@pat: Some people buy into the argument that the government has no business providing cash or cash-like benefits to other people.
Some people making barely enough to pay their bills look at their pay stubs and see 10-20-30-40% of their gross going to various taxes, and maybe child support, and think that they get no benefit from paying all those taxes and fees – the benefits go to people who don’t deserve it. And they’d be a lot better off having that money themselves.
Etc.
In most cases, I don’t think it’s mainly about cruelty. I think it’s mainly “I play by the rules, why don’t I ever get ahead” type of thinking.
There are ways that we can address the “why can’t I ever get ahead problem”. One thing that I’ve toyed with in my head off-and-on for a while is:
It would be an immediate shot in the arm to the bottom 50% would save them having to do federal taxes, and would show that there really is a benefit to living in the USA and supporting our form of government.
And once you get above that 50%, you’re doing better than average, and you can start paying directly to support the national commonweal on that amount above 50%.
I haven’t played with the numbers yet, but I’m sure there are ways to make it work if we want to make it work.
Some oligarch oxen would be gored, so we have to be willing to fight them on that.
Bottom line – if the population doesn’t buy our arguments, we need to change the arguments and the approach if we want their votes. We obviously don’t live in the best of all possible worlds, sometimes systems need substantial change, and we need to think about ways to help everyone in the country, not just overtly help those who vote for Team D. And sell them on our proposals.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Shalimar
I don’t really play Magic: The Gathering except occasionally the computer version, but it still pisses me off that Marjorie is giving it a bad name.
Ohio Mom
@cain: I think at least some of the blame for conflating capitalism and Christianity has to go to Calvin and his Protestant work ethic.
The Audacity of Krope
Well, in the immediate aftermath of the election there was fairly open discussion of giving just that treatment to union members, immigrants, and trans folk.
More generally, when we make these compromises that further enforcement-first immigration policies, genocide against less favored nations, or harsh policing; people here tend to support it.
We have to meet the electorate where they are.
It’s necessary to build good faith rapport with Republicans –an Obama-era favorite
Just Win, Baby ::spit::
How many people here are more concerned about how Palestine is affecting D electoral chances than Palestine itself? Democrats feel entitled to the support of groups seeking rights for Palestinians because Democrats put on their Susan Collins concerned faces after voting for the same policies.
Yeah, I stand by what I said.
cain
@Another Scott:
It’s not just that. Even when you want use any of these govt benefits they treat you like you are trying to cheat them. So many rules and overhead to get anything.
The oregon unemployment service has been horrible trying to get money out of them. Money that is owed to you but they gatekeep the shit out if it to the point that you almost give up.
ETA Regards to the rest of your post. I think having a universal income is the way to go and then remove all these ‘entitlement programs’. You could reduce a lot of govt overhead this way.
Of course, people will still scheme and cheat but that’s the human race for you.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I’ve suggested selling Omnes down the river. Does that count?
Ohio Mom
@Ella in New Mexico: To be fair, there are some so-called able-bodied adults on Medicaid. I can think of two reasons off the top of my head: they live out in the boonies where jobs are few and far between; maybe they have an undiagnosed mental illness or an invisible disability. Their families just shrug their shoulders and say, Oh you know Hector’s always been a little off.
Of course if you take a step back, you remember that every other developed nation had universal health coverage, and they must have a certain number of people who don’t work too. But they are still covered.
EarthWindFire
@Ella in New Mexico: Same way they talk about only deporting the criminals. Then they find that, oops, not nearly as many criminals in real life as there are in their head so they’re deporting whoever they can get their hands on. A similar scenario is coming with Medicaid.
Geminid
@Ella in New Mexico: I know for sure Democrats flipped at least six Republican House seats last November: one in Oregon (Janelle Bynum); 3 in California (George Whitesides, Derek Tran, and Adam Gray); and 2 in New York (Laura Gillen and John Mannion).
Two more New Yorkers flipped Republican seats in special elections and held on to them last November (Tom Suozzi and Josh Riley).
We also picked up two seats in districts redrawn on account of Voting Rights Act lawsuits. Shomari Figures won AL06 and Cleo Fields won LA06.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: yep. Plus that people never paid attention to 6th grade civics (my generation) or Schoolhouse Rock (yours?).
We bemoan the reality that MAGA voters don’t understand the functions of government, but a lot of people don’t. And apparently don’t be care to learn.
Jackie
@Shalimar:
Sorry, and I understand – although as a non-gamer, I’ve never heard of that game, let alone the names of others. As for calling her Marjorie – nope! We’re not on a first name relationship LOL! Since BJ is predominantly a political blog, not a gamers blog, I’m sticking with MTG. Her full name is unworthy of wasting that many keystrokes.
satby
@Jay: Cain is perfectly capable of explaining what they meant. I’m not the only person (clearly) who took exception to the idea that “the Dems” were culpable in some undefined ways.
Geminid
@Ella in New Mexico: Also, 13 Democrats won House districts that Trump carried, while 4 Senators– Jackie Rozen (NV), Ruben Gallego (AZ), Tammy Baldwin (WI) and Elissa Slotkin (MI)– won in states Trump carried.
Like they say: “Short fingers, short coattails.”
@Geminid:
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: You wouldn’t get anything for me.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: Selling others down the river without getting anything in return seems to be the D’s MO.
SuzieC
Dead thread but what does everyone think now about the passage of the BBB? There are 4 R defections, right? Paul, Tillis, Murkowski and squishy Collins.
I have to say, Sen. Tillis showed political courage today.
Baud
@SuzieC:
It hasn’t passed yet.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Yes, but I must protest.
Hands off Omnes and Steve in the WTF.
RevRick
@Ella in New Mexico: This will hit single working moms the hardest. Just do the math of an 80-hour/month work requirement, plus childcare, plus the onerous paperwork every six months. It’s designed to create hell for them, because what could go wrong juggling that?
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: We can send Steve in the WTF down the river for free.
Ella in New Mexico
@Ohio Mom:
I totally agree with your comment: a number of rural folks in New Mexico including Native Americans on the reservations do fit into that category. But the relative handful of not-mentally ill and employable “able bodied adults” is miniscule I promise. I see hundreds of primary care patients everyweek on Medicaid and they are generally disabled or don’t meet employer requirements for coverage or can’t afford employer sponsored insurance. And mental illness makes people unemployable, they can’t function reasonably around others or they are totally unreliable.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: In this binary system, if you can’t support Democrats then by definition you’re supporting the plainly white supremacist neo-Confederate Republicans— EVIL.
Ain’t no other fuckin’ choices; and the majority of white Americans chose fuckin’ evil.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: That’s why everything the Republicans are doing is aimed at allowing the President to rule by decree as a national dictator. They can make every other office not matter, then they can lose those seats at their leisure.
Whether Trumpism can maintain control without Trump the man… who knows. They might try animating him with AI.
Scout211
@Baud: @Omnes Omnibus: @WaterGirl:
Sure, sure. But just for arguments sake, which river are we taking about?
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: As long as both parties agree to abuse people outside our borders, I have no complaints about losing some things inside our borders. Even if it means I wind up in some foreign gulag for a thought crime or loving the wrong person.
ETA: And the religious bigotry that leads to D support for so many of these policies, shameful.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@The Audacity of Krope: Sounds about white.
The Audacity of Krope
@Interesting Name Goes Here: Ah, the rubber/glue gambit. I accuse the Democrats of bigotry and you turn it around on me.
Clever, for a four year old.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Perhaps the river Ankh?
Interesting Name Goes Here
@The Audacity of Krope: Stop reciting Chris Rufo talking points, and I’ll consider using a brain cell on you.
Sally
The Billionaires’ Big Bribe.
The Audacity of Krope
@Interesting Name Goes Here: I never knew Chris Rufo was so enthusiastic about a more peaceable foreign policy. I didn’t use the phrase “critical race theory” or “trans agenda” once. If anything, I suggested Dems were too wobbly on trans rights.
If you’re going to compare me to some right-wing choad, at least pick one associated with the relevant issue.
cain
@Matt McIrvin:
I think that was the plot of Equilibrium.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@The Audacity of Krope:
Are you worth the effort?
Omnes Omnibus
@Scout211: The Chattahoochee?
The Audacity of Krope
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: It would be more worth your effort to ask for better from Democrats.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@The Audacity of Krope: You should do that for the GOP first. Oh, right, you won’t do that ever. It’s much easier for you to shit all over Democrats and strut around like a pigeon instead, blissfully unaware that your new allies see you as little more than a useful idiot.
Typical.
The Audacity of Krope
@Interesting Name Goes Here: Everyone here knows the Republicans are bad. They certainly aren’t my allies. I’ve realized, too late, they aren’t alone.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: Heinlein’s “The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress” had an AI running the lunar revolution and generating a fake face for himself on the TV, somewhat in the manner of Max Headroom. But that AI was actually a clever and well-intentioned leader, not a puppet who could churn out rhetoric in any desired direction.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@The Audacity of Krope: That either means you think it would be useless to entreat Dems and you aren’t, or it wouldn’t be (undercutting the point you’re trying to make about Dems) and you are.
Either, way that’s a self-own, my dude.
WTFGhost
@Ella in New Mexico: Mental illness *may* make people unemployable. Sometimes, it just adds to the burden of trying to appear normal.
@Jackie: Just be aware that EmptyG wants to be “MTG!!!” just like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is “AOC,” only, Alexandria earned her exclamation points, and doesn’t need them to draw attention.
Archon
@The Audacity of Krope: That literally sounds insane.
You and I are political enemies, just the same as any MAGA member is to me.
YY_Sima Qian
@Jay: It was passed, anyway. However, politics in TW is also deeply polarized & increasingly dysfunctional. The DPP government was elected on a plurality due to the opposition being split. The opposition have since largely been united in the legislature & have leveraged their majority to stymie the government at every turn, while passing legislation to increase the oversight powers of the Legislative Yuan over the Executive Yuan (the bill in question in the video).
The DPP arrested the leader of the smaller of opposition parties (the TPP) on charges of corruption, & has launched a campaign to recall all of the legislators of the larger of opposition parties (the KMT), probably calculating that the lower turn out recall election favors their larger group of hardcore supporters, especially if TPP supporters are unmotivated to help out the KMT. The supporters of the opposition are hoping to present a united front (in their hatred of the DPP) to beat back the ruling party’s recall campaign. The opposition is accusing the ruling DPP of increasing authoritarianism, lawlessness & rampant corruption, & courting war w/ the increasingly overt assertions of de jure independence, while the DPP politicians & DPP-aligned media accuse any & all critics as CCP-sympathizers out to sell out Taiwan.
The DPP had historically been dominant among the young demographics, but in the past couple of years have been hemorrhaging youth support due to similar dynamics found the world over (high young unemployment, stagnant wages, high housing costs, high inflation of daily necessities, etc.), as well as lackluster governance (incomprehensible energy policy, confrontational cross-Strait policy, politicization & securitization of domestic policies). The younger demographics are increasingly disaffected from mainstream politics & the mainstream political parties, as the KMT & TPP (especially the former) have not been able to secure their allegiances, either.
Not a lot of common ground to be found.
Soprano2
@RevRick: Dead thread, but that’s right. They pretend not to understand how hard this stuff is for people who are overloaded. Sometimes I have to make lists of phone calls and they still don’t get made! I can’t imagine how hard it is for a single parent.
cain
@YY_Sima Qian:
Looks like authoritarian govt are on the rise everywhere.
YY_Sima Qian
@cain: The DPP is not authoritarian, yet, & there are plenty of charlatans among the KMT & TPP, too. However, I’ve said years ago that the trend I saw w/ the DPP was reminiscent of Gingrich era GOP, possibly GWB era, including leveraging its dominance on the highest court. Basically, nothing seems out of bounds anymore, in terms of rules & norms. All parties have large online troll armies on retainer, though the DPP & the TPP are much more adept at this than the KMT. The DPP aligned press are very much reminiscent of Fox News & other conservative media in the US, w/ the lose relation to the truth & willingness to shock & instill fear & anxiety among their audiences/readers. The TPP/KMT aligned traditional media, now at a distinct disadvantage , remind me of the NYT & WaPo, ill-prepared to adjust to the new landscape, although they too are getting into the fear & anxiety inducing game. However, the DPP is getting challenged on social media, where the younger demographics tend to obtain their information. Traditional media is losing influence.
cain
@YY_Sima Qian: this is so depressing.
YY_Sima Qian
@cain: Don’t take my word for it though. I am just sharing my impression from across the Taiwan Strait, having followed Taiwanese politics and media for the past couple of decades, & from talking to Taiwanese friends & colleagues. I used to visit Taiwan quite frequently in the ‘10s, but the pandemic, cost control by my employer, & tense cross-Strait relations made visiting cumbersome. Other people may have different impressions, especially if they have different political sympathies.
Let’s just say I have very low opinion of the DPP, because of its persistence in playing the nativist card to reap electoral rewards. I can certainly respect people who are principled in their pro-independence (& I think the best thing the PRC can do is to agree to de jure independence for Taiwan in return for economic integration, political commonwealth, & armed neutrality), but that stance should not be based on denying Chinese heritage, historical linkages, or ostracizing people who want better relations w/ the Mainland as traitors & enemies of the state.
Not that I have high opinions of the KMT or the TPP, either.