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Commenter RandyG send me a couple of quizzes that he wrote a few years ago. One is on Film Noir, and I thought it might be a fun choice after the week we’ve had.
Note from RandyG:
I wrote them while I was a member of a competitive trivia league LearnedLeague.com. A common attribute of the league’s quizzes is that the questions usually contain additional clues to help people “tease out the answers” if they know something at all about the subject, rather than questions that merely rely on either knowing the answer right away or having no idea how to even figure it out or make a guess.
I try to write them the same way. (Question 12 in Film Noir is a good example of this.) In fact, I added additional clues to many of the questions in the original quiz to make them somewhat easier for our intended audience.
FILM NOIR QUIZ
by RandyG
Introduction
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964), described his threshold test for obscenity as “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material….. But I know it when I see it.”
The same might be said of Film Noir. It may be hard to define succinctly, but you know it when you see it. Film Noir, popular in the 1940s and 50s, spanned various genres including gangster films, private eye mysteries (often featuring a femme fatale), gothic romances and social dramas. It might be urban, suburban or rural. One might argue that it’s more of a visual style that emphasizes low-key black & white cinematography and unbalanced compositions, along with a dark, somber mood and storyline. Or you might notice the abundance of corrupt and/or cynical characters. Then again, not always.
Ultimately, it may be best to just say “I know it when I see it.”
#1
Peekaboo! Alan Ladd had star potential. To compensate for his 5’6″ frame, Paramount initially paired him with an equally diminutive actress in two films noirs, first in 1942’s This Gun For Hire and then shortly afterwards in The Glass Key. Who was this blonde actress—the toast of Hollywood by age 20 and essentially washed-up by 30, although still well-known today—who also co-starred with Ladd later that decade in The Blue Dahlia and Saigon?#2
The title of what 1944 film, whose plot prominently features a captivating portrait of the title character, has been removed from this one-sheet poster?
#3
“Put the Blame on Mame” is an original song written for what film? It was sung by the title character and new wife of Ballin Mundson, a Buenos Aires casino owner. Oh, by the way, we discover that Mrs. Mundson – she, of very flippable hair — just happens to have a steamy and stormy history with Johnny Farrell, Mundson’s right-hand man at the casino. Hilarity ensues…. well, not exactly hilarity
#4
Name this actor, born Jacob Garfinkle, who’s best known in film noir circles for his role opposite Lana Turner in The Postman Always Rings Twice, as well as for Body and Soul, Out of the Fog, and Force of Evil.
#5
In a 1955 devilish French classic, which can be classified equally as film noir, horror, and psychological thriller, a man’s wife and mistress (pictured) conspire to murder him. The overall plan goes ever so slightly awry, however, when the man’s body disappears. Oops! Name the film.
#6
Raymond Chandler’s legendary detective Philip Marlowe has been portrayed by eight different actors in nine English-language, feature-length, theatrical films. The first of these was 1944’s Murder, My Sweet; the last was 2022’s Marlowe. Notably among the actors was Humphrey Bogart in the original 1946 The Big Sleep. Name any one of the other seven actors.
#7
This audio clip is from what 1941 “whodunit and where is it” film?
#8
A man marches through a police station to the homicide division and tells the head detective that he wants to report a murder. When the detective asks him who was murdered, the man answers “I was.” This is the “initial” scene in what 1950 thriller starring Edmond O’Brien that was remade with the same title in 1988 with Dennis Quaid in the lead role?
#9
Name this groundbreaking actress, director, and producer, who has a place in cinema history as the only female director working within the 1950s Hollywood studio system as well as being the first female to direct a mainstream American film noir, 1953’s The Hitch-Hiker.
#10
In this climactic scene from a 1949 film directed by Raoul Walsh, the main character (James Cagney’s Cody Jarrett) proclaims to his not present mom that he’s made it to where, as a fire rages behind him? The answer is contained within quote #18 in AFI’s 2005 list “100 Greatest Movie Quotes of All Time.”
#11
What 1947 film, starring Jane Greer, Robert Mitchum, and Kirk Douglas, is considered a superb example of film noir, due to its complicated, dark storyline, dark cinematography, cynical and sinister characters, and classic femme fatale? It was remade (against all logic) in 1984 as Against All Odds. At “present”, there are no apparent plans for another remake. Good!!
#12
Rose Loomis (Marilyn Monroe) is on a delayed honeymoon with her much older husband George (Joseph Cotten), ostensibly in an attempt to patch up their troubled marriage. Rose has other thoughts on her mind, though…. like murder, perhaps? Name this one-word 1953 film, notable for being a rare noir shot in Technicolor, which showcased the spectacular scenery that backdrops much of the film.
Who’s up for a quiz, or at least a discussion of favorite films in this genre?
In case you are new to Medium Cool, these are not open threads.
NotMax
Smooth jazzy accompaniment.
Splitting Image
I was able to answer about 6 out of the 12 questions, although there are a couple I might have gotten, but it has been a long time since I have seen the movies in question.
My favourite film noir is Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid. I discovered a fair number of other films through that one.
Craig
#6
#11
ETA removed my answers. Oops
Scout211
I definitely can’t answer any of the quiz questions and I had to read The 30 Best Film Noir Movies of All Time to find out what movies are considered film noir. I did discover that a favorite movie of mine, Laura is considered film noir.
But I only remember watching 4 or 5 of the 30 best on that list. But oh my, so many of the actors starring in the movies listed were and are amazing actors.
I’ll be looking forward to more discussion from commenters who are more knowledgeable.
RandyG
@Scout211: Um….. yes you can!
Scout211
@RandyG: OMG! You are so right. The #2 is Laura!
WaterGirl
@RandyG: @Scout211: That exchange was fun!
RandyG
@Scout211: And that web page you linked to contains the answers to several other questions.
@Scout211:
kalakal
My favourite film noir is The Third Man.
For me it has everything, the acting, the cinematography, brilliant atmosphere, plot twists, all overlaid with an air of world weary cynicism.
Also I never thought I’d go for a zither soundtrack
The first time I was in Vienna I went to Prater so I could take a ride on the Ferris Wheel and quote Orsen Welles
thruppence
I know just about four of these films, making me a sort of C- dilettante. TCM hosts a weekly film noir show, but they’re not all classics. In the days before widespread TV, things got churned out, some flops later revered, some hits later disdained. Just like today.
WaterGirl
@Craig: Answers were fine!
Gloria DryGarden
I don’t think I watch this genre much, although some recent detective shows are interesting, and James Bond movies are cool. I’m not clear on the definitions, but horror and thriller categories don’t often grab me.
the closest I’ve come to film noir is
Jean de Florette. An indelible story, so personal and relatable, and especially dark because it’s the kind of fiction that is adjacent to relatable truth.
It’s not a movie, but the radio skits about the inept Guy Noir on prairie home companion, were often a delight. So, ok, a brief dance with fictional, relatable Noir.
I wonder what it is in noir films, (and horror or thrillers, if they are part of noir genre) that appeals to folks? Why do you like it? I am actually curious.
I get enough thriller horror adrenaline jacking experiences from the news. (and from ptsd)
just curious. Enjoy your movies.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
The having hints to the answer to the question is one of the things I really like about Jeopardy. It’s not just straight know it or not – if you grok the clue(s), you can make an educated guess.
Gloria DryGarden
For Hitchcock fans, there is a recent movie out about the making of hi# movie “psycho “ which is a delight. Anthony Hopkins, Helen Mirren, Scarlett Johansson. Stunning, fun movie.
Hitch (Hopkins) in the movie foyer, totally getting off with delight at the shrieks of his movie audience.. the look on his face.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
not playing as I don’t watch enough films.
Posting just to note that I believe Raymond Chandler named his detective Marlowe after the Marlowe who was the protagonist in Conrad’s Heart of Darkness.
middlelee
I’d forgotten what a good actor Robert Mitchum was and how frightening some of his rolls were. I watched Night of the Hunter a couple of months ago and it was just as scary as the first time around.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
OT, but Chris White has a number for you today.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
Veronica Lake
2. Laura
3. Gilda
4. John Garfield
5. Diabolique
6. Robert Mitchum
7. Maltese Falcon (a guess – can’t bring up the audio)
8. D.O.A. (had to look this one up)
9. Ida Lupino
10. Top of the World
11. Out of the Past
12. Niagara
zhena gogolia
Oh, man, I know all of these.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Gloria DryGarden: I saw that – it was pretty good, and very clear how important Hitch’s wife was to his and the film’s success.
zhena gogolia
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: If you watched any of the movies referenced here, you would be very entertained.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Gloria DryGarden: I personally like noir films, but have no use at all for horror films, especially vampires, zombies, etc. Occasionally a horror film like Get Out, which of course has other things, like racism, going on.
funlady75
I have TCM on my cable package…..From Ida Lupino to John Garfield, & even Dick Powell, MY favorite film noir movie is Humphrey Bogart & Lauren Bacall in DARK Passage….
Eyeroller
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):10. “White Heat” was the name of the movie, directed by Raoul Walsh.
Top of the world, Ma!
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@funlady75: I think my favorite is Double Indemnity. The genius of Billy Wilder casting Fred MacMurray against type kills me, especially since he is excellent in the part. Bonus Edward G. Robinson.
zhena gogolia
@funlady75: That’s a really good one.
phein65
1: Veronica Lake
2: Laura
5: Diabolique
6: Robert Mitchum
7: The Maltese Falcon
8: DOA
9: Ida Lupino
10: Top of the World! in White Lightning
Did not know the rest off the top of my head. But with the exception of the Robert Mitchum turn in Farewell, My Lovely, I did not see any of the rest when they came out. I’m an old, but not that old.
zhena gogolia
OT but not really, I always catch up to pop culture late, and I’m obsessed with Past Lives.
phein65
@zhena gogolia: Well now, you raise the question: Which of the referenced films is the most entertaining to you?
For me, it’s a toss-up between The Maltese Falcon and Diabolique. I don’t watch the latter with my wife.
funlady75
@zhena gogolia: thanks…..I also loved KEY Largo with them, not film noir though…
Tehanu
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Re Double Indemnity, yeah, me too — not to mention how great Eddie G. is in it as well. I also think Key Largo should be considered noir.
I knew the answers to a few:
1. Veronica Lake
4. John Garfield
6. Robert Mitchum
9. The great Ida Lupino, and
10. “Top of the world, Ma!”
phein65
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): He also makes a great (morally) bad guy in The Caine Mutiny.
prostratedragon
Quiz is a good starting point for learning about film noir. No. 8 was one of the first I watched consciously as film noir, and still a favorite. Noir does span all genres: Dark Passage or The Big Steal for romantic adventure, High Noon or Man of the West, Cause for Alarm! or The Reckless Moment for “women’s pictures,” etc.
RandyG
What I like about film noir: there’s always a meaty story, although it can sometimes get too confusing (such as in The Big Sleep); the story gets going right away, no waiting 20 minutes (or forever) for something to happen; interesting characters, although usually not of the virtuous kind, it’s hard to not form an opinion of most of the characters; the story has a narrative, rarely just rambling or uninteresting, disconnected events; cinematography is an important element, as is mood; dialogue is often over-the-top, but compelling (listen to the audio in #7)
zhena gogolia
@phein65: Of these films, I’d pick Out of the Past and Niagara.
zhena gogolia
@funlady75: Well, kinda . . . It’s such an amorphous term.
Eyeroller
@phein65: How is nobody getting the name of the movie correct? I’ve never seen it but I know the name.
White Heat.
zhena gogolia
@prostratedragon: I love The Reckless Moment.
zhena gogolia
How about the “Berlin in ruins” genre, with Foreign Affair and The Man Between? I mean, if we’re counting The Third Man.
ETA: knowing it’s Vienna
zhena gogolia
@Eyeroller: I think the question is, what was his line, not the name of the movie.
phein65
@Eyeroller: The question is asking, where does Cody tell his Ma he is at the climax of the movie? Not the name of the movie.
phein65
@funlady75: I didn’t think it was noir either, and now I’m trying to figure out why: Lack of moral ambiguity, perhaps?
Gloria DryGarden
@zhena gogolia: the recent one, half in Korean, she meets up with her childhood guy friend? I loved it Past lives. I watched it twice. So good.
RandyG
But the film IS White Heat. Out of the films noted, I’d say White Heat, Laura, and Out of the Past are my favorites.
Another great one not mentioned here is John Huston’s Asphalt Jungle.
funlady75
@phein65:
I agree.
Would The Stranger with Orson Wells & EG Robinson be considered film noir…
tam1MI
@zhena gogolia: I got them all except for the French one.
phein65
@funlady75: Not certain — have to rewatch — but from what I remember it’s more of a who is this guy? rather than a who is the bad guy?
zhena gogolia
@Gloria DryGarden: I just loved it.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
Not to mention The Apartment! Then he decided he wanted to be a Disney guy and we got The Absent-Minded Professor. Sigh.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@phein65: please see my last comment!
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
“Where the humuhumunukunukuapua’a go swimming by.”
prostratedragon
@funlady75: Many think so, and I agree. Noir spread into most cinema between 1944 and ’55 or so, I think.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: 😂 I didn’t know there were birch trees in Hawaii.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Eyeroller: You are right, but the quiz question asked about the quote, not the name of the movie, which is why I didn’t name the movie.
Eyeroller
@phein65: OK, but that’s sort of not right either since he’s on top of a burning gas-storage tank which I suppose is “top of the world” because that was a theme of the movie.. Cody was supposed to reach the top of the world but he only managed to die in the explosion of the tank (along with several gunshot wounds).
But he did say it was top of the world (ma).
phein65
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): I did, and couldn’t agree more. Is there anyone less conflicted than the father in My Three Sons?
OMG, I just realized that my dad had three sons, and I have three sons, and neither of us were omniscient or consistently benevolent. Maybe my boys will do better.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@phein65: I know! I grew up on My Three Sons and the first time I saw Double Indemnity and The Apartment I was in shock. And he was really good in them, too!
And the first time I saw Andy Griffith in A Face in the Crowd was a surprise. And Donna Reed in From Here to Eternity.
RandyG
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): A lot of the actors that we — I use that term loosely — got to know as “good guys” in the 1960s and 70s, mostly on TV, got started in movies as stereotypical “bad guys”: Raymond Burr, Gavin McLeod, for example. Fred MacMurray did a lot of comedy and good guy roles throughout his career, as well as a lot of nefarious types.
UncleEbeneezer
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Check out Sinners now on HBOMax. It’s horror and vampires but like Get Out it’s really much more a social commentary about racism in America and the kind of movie that even people who don’t like horror (like my wife) can still enjoy (she LOVED it!). Also the soundtrack/score and use of music is incredible.
NotMax
If you want to get a group of noirheads all hot and bothered, innocently ask them whether “Bad Day at Black Rock” qualifies as film noir or not.
;)
WTFGhost
I can’t speak for films, but I do have a funny quiz story.
Radio show (so the legend goes) has a trivia question, with some nominal prize, but, you know, that’s enough to get people guessing. The question was “What is the first thing you know?”
Oh, there were answers, metaphysical, logical, Descartean, semi-scientific, and the contest, normally one day, lasted three days, and no one even came close to the answer. Most people I know these days are simply too young to guess this, because it was part of an older person’s culture.
So, what was the answer, that, again, according to legend, mandated a police escort for the radio crew who held the contest?
“Well, the first thing you know, old Jed’s a millionaire…“
Ironcity
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): I don’t know about Double Indemnity being so against type in casting MacMurray. If you discount the Disney movies you get ones like The Apartment, where he was a noirish if not noir guy, and the other 1930s and 1940s ones. Research shows about 100 movies in career. Don’t remember him in Caine Mutiny.
If there is such a thing as a noir comedy does “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” qualify? The plot is almost a funny Chinatown.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@NotMax: Saw that recently on TCM and it was really good.
phein65
@NotMax: I would say no!, where is the moral ambiguity? We may not know why Robert Ryan is a bad guy, but he is clearly the bad guy from the get go.
Eyeroller
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Fred played heavies several times, especially for Billy Wilder and Edward Dmytryk, such as in the Caine Mutiny, so it wasn’t completely against type. He actually preferred those roles since he considered them more serious. So it wasn’t totally against type, or at least not uniquely so. He said his part in Double Indemnity was his favorite role.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@UncleEbeneezer: My husband and I caught the last half on TV last night and the music was great. He’s set the DVR to record so we can see the beginning and the set-up. Michael Jordan is great in a dual role, and I really liked seeing Cornbread (Omar something?) from Ballers.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Ironcity: He was the skunk (sorry, skunks!) who talked someone else into being the ringleader of the mutiny, leaving his hands clean.
Just look at that parking lot
Watched the 1945 movie Detour a couple of weeks ago. Was looking forward to it since it’s always cited as one of the best noir films, but I couldn’t get with it so I stopped around half way thru. Sometimes it can take me 2-3 watches to enjoy a movie, especially noirs. It’s playing on Tubi.
Couple of years ago, I read an article about differs sub genres of film noir. Didn’t know there was one called “Stoner Noir”. The Big Lebowski was given as an example ,as well as Night Moves , from 1975 with Gene Hackman. It’s a really good movie, but don’t know about the the “Stoner Noir” label.
phein65
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): I’m sure you know this, but many don’t: skunks are the leading source of rabies in the Midwest, much as Lt. Keefer infected his crewmates.
NotMax
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
Also excellent in the comedic noir Murder, He Says. Comes around on TCM periodically.
Geminid
@NotMax: I though Lee Marvin and Ernest Borgnine were pretty noiry in Bad Day at Black Rock. That film had a enough other dark elements for me to consider it a film noir.
But I am nowhere near a noirhead.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Eyeroller: A ha! I recently saw a short bit on TCM where his daughter said that after he was dressed down by a lady about his part in (I think) The Apartment, he never did another bad guy role. He also apparently was one of the highest paid actors in Hollywood. From Wikipedia:
Usually cast in light comedies as a decent, thoughtful character (The Trail of the Lonesome Pine), and in melodramas and musicals, MacMurray became one of the film industry’s highest-paid actors of the period. In 1943, his annual salary had reached $420,000, making him the highest-paid actor in Hollywood and the fourth-highest-paid person in the nation.
I used to think of him as a light-weight (Flubber!) but not so much.
Melancholy Jaques
I’ve seen five of these and a remake of one, but not the original.
I’ve seen #7 so many times I can quote several whole scenes.
zhena gogolia
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Check out MacMurray in Remember the Night. Not a noir role, but he’s fantastic in it with Stanwyck.
zhena gogolia
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): And Donna Reed in They Were Expendable. Heartbreaking.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: It’s in color!
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@phein65: I did not know that. All my interactions with skunks have been very pleasant. I once drove a mama skunk away from our place in the country (after she had raised her babies) because I came by too often at her den in a lumber pile to say Hi. She was a very serious mother and had definite boundaries, whereas I clearly had boundary issues,
zhena gogolia
@Ironcity: You don’t remember him in Caine Mutiny? He’s a pretty pivotal character. And he’s fabulous.
Eyeroller
@Ironcity: “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” always struck me as an intentional parody/homage to Hollywood film noir of the 1940s. The movie was based on a novel with an inspiration from a 1943 Tex Avery cartoon, but the film character design seems to have been influenced by a Veronica Lake hairstyle and some contributions from Rita Hayworth and Lauren Bacall.
zhena gogolia
@Just look at that parking lot: Detour is THE noir movie. You should give it another try. It’s low-rent but it is quintessential noir.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@zhena gogolia: I will!
someday
phein65
@Geminid: Were they heavies? Sure. But there was nothing about their characters that wasn’t black-and-white.
I do like Ernest Borgnine’s account of the scene where his character goes through a screen door: He was not aware that the door would come off, and stumbled through into the street.
phein65
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):
I had a co-worker who liked to feed the skunks at our complex, necessitating the wholesale removal of vegetation from the grounds of our military reservation.
laura
My dad and his best friend got into a fist fight in front of the theatre over who would get the claim the name…while they were teens and many years before either was married or having children. Dad’s best friend, who lost the fight, named his daughter Lorna.
Eyeroller
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Hmm, well, that may be what he told his daughter but considering that he told other interviewers he liked “heavy” roles, it’s more likely that “they drove a dump truck full of money up to my house, what was I supposed to do???” (Simpsons reference) to be in the Disney type of movies. Why should some highly-paid actor care what some rando thinks about his roles?
Chris
@kalakal:
I finally saw The Third Man last year. Parts of it really struck me in a “time marches on” kind of way, in the sense that even this film, a noir classic with all the cynicism and dark view of human nature that comes with it, still ends up being much nicer and more trusting of the world than it ever would be today.
Harry Lime has connections in the government that help protect him like any self-respecting black market kingpin, but they’re in the Soviet sector. If the film were made today, no way it isn’t revealed that he’s got similar arrangements with the American, British, and French authorities.
The British cop might not win any prizes for niceness, but he’s a good cop, an honest cop, and most of all, he’s willing to spend a lot of energy investigating the kind of impersonal and unglamorous crime that’s unlikely to win him any headlines or boost his career, simply because the crime is in fact hurting a hell of a lot of people. Again, hard for me to picture a modern noir film that doesn’t eventually reveal that he’s part of Lime’s scheme, or at best that he doesn’t care about it because he’s got easier ways to boost his arrest numbers.
Belafon
I was born exactly 49 years after Gene Tierney.
RandyG
For those interested in getting started on film noir, check out the Criterion Channel. It has a free trial period and you can subscribe month to month as a standalone channel, i.e. doesn’t require buying a larger package. They have a huge catalog of noir, although not everything is always available on demand. (That it’s been mentioned here, Bad Day at Black Rock came on this month.)
NotMax
@Eyeroller
A very different take on Roger Rabbit, from Russia with love. (Pre-Ukraine invasion Russia, that is.)
:)
middlelee
@middlelee: roles, not rolls.
prostratedragon
@Eyeroller:
frosty
Many years ago I read a book about movies with rebel heroes, and I think a lot of them were Noir. The one I know was in there was On The Waterfront. My high school occasionally had us all go to the auditorium for a movie. This would have been the late 60s and that was one of the movies. I’ve often wondered which subversive in the administration picked it.
NotMax
@Chris – @kalakal
Welles starred in a radio series after The Third Man came out about Harry Lime before his time in Vienna, The Lives of Harry Lime.
prostratedragon
@frosty: Great choice for high schoolers! Lots of things to think about.
frosty
I could answer 1 of 12, because I remembered Elliott Gould played Marlowe once. I mentioned it to Ms F and she said “Elliott Gould??!???” That’s probably why I remembered it, I had the same reaction when it came out in the 70s.
BobbyK
Watched quite a few film noir movies on TCM. One thing you notice right away is EVERYONE smoked and EVERYONE was a drunk :-). Well not a drunk but the characters drank quite a bit and they all did smoke pretty much constantly.
Anyway
One of my favorite movies— watched it multiple times. One of my visits to Vienna I took a Third Man walking tour. Fun visiting many of the locations one of which had the familiar zither music playing.
Eyeroller
@frosty: Noir doesn’t necessarily or usually have rebel heroes. I would not call On the Waterfront a noir movie. Film noir has its roots in 1920s-1930s German expressionist film (and many of the classics were directed by German refugees such as Billy Wilder). The stories tended to be inspired by pulp-fiction crime novels — Dashiell Hammett (“The Maltese Falcon,” “The Thin Man,” “The Glass Key”) and James Cain (“”Double Indemnity,” “The Postman Always Rings Twice”, “Mildred Pierce”) — BTW while I was very familiar with Hammett, I didn’t know Cain’s name though certainly know those titles.
But “On the Waterfront” is a classic in its own right.
Marie Winsor
De-lurking to recommend a couple of Noirs from the early 1950s:
“On Dangerous Ground”, starring Robert Ryan and Ida Lupino, and directed by Nicholas Ray
“In a Lonely Place”, another Nicholas Ray movie, starring Humphrey Bogart and Gloria Grahame, both just great in this; one of Bogart’s best performances
And one more: Fritz Lang’s “The Big Heat”, with a cast of characters as tough, driven, cynical and tortured as any in the film noir universe.
Chris
One whose film noir qualities are often overlooked but absolutely there: Casablanca.
The city’s a crapsack world, filled with people that’ve fallen on hard times in the worst possible way and are targeted at every street corner by people trying to exploit them. Those people have few prospects of a happy ending; only a few manage to get out, and doing so most often involves sleeping with the local dirty cop or risking losing what little you have through gambling. The authorities are openly corrupt and lawless, whether they’re murdering people in the streets, rounding up the same people over and over just to make a show of force, or running the entire town’s economy on bribes. And the protagonist himself is up to his eyeballs in the corruption, not just legally (he pays his bribes and is sure to keep the local police chief’s friendship) but morally (running an underground casino in the circumstances he is means you can bet a ton of his money’s come from desperate refugees who lost it all trying to make enough money to bribe their way out), in addition to having pretty much given up on the idealism that he used to have.
… And all of this, mind you, is before the Nazis even show up and start breathing down everybody’s necks.
Of course the whole thing about the film is that it starts off with a typical and familiar film noir setting, and then evolves it to the point that, by the end, you’re in a completely different genre. Which given the message of the film, is entirely intentional. A film noir setting at the time reflected the world as seen by the average pre-WWII American, especially after living through a decade of economic hardship. Casablanca‘s point is that Americans need to get out of that mindset, and into the more heroic mindset of, well, a WWII movie.
RandyG
@BobbyK: Not just in noir. In 1940s and 1950s movies, also very much in the 30s and 60s as well, and later than that in European films, almost everybody smokes and drinks. Now you’ll notice that when you watch an old flick.
frosty
@Eyeroller: Yeah, I didn’t really think it was noir, and the rebel heroes weren’t all noir, except maybe for Marlowe. But this topic was the hook I could hang my story on!
Wish still had the book
Pauline
I don’t know if Sunset Boulevard counts but that’s always been a favorite.
prostratedragon
@Chris:
There are some movies that I think of as prenoir, or maybe noir-before-noir, because they have the same sense of disillusionment as postwar noir. Casablanca is one, High Sierra another. Maybe I Was a Prisoner on a Chain Gang and The Letter.
RandyG
All the other answers have appeared in the comments. Here’s the complete list of actors who played Philip Marlowe:
Dick Powell (Murder, My Sweet, 1944); Robert Montgomery (Lady in the Lake, 1947); George Montgomery (The Brasher Doubloon, 1947); James Garner (Marlowe, 1969); Elliott Gould (The Long Goodbye, 1973); Robert Mitchum (Farewell, My Lovely, 1975; The Big Sleep, 1978); Liam Neeson (Marlowe, 2022)
Note: Mitchum was only actor to play Marlowe twice (in theatrical films, as stated in the question.) Farewell, My Lovely was a remake of Murder, My Sweet, based on the Raymond Chandler novel Farewell, My Lovely.
Scout211
In the article I posted upthread, The 30 Best Film Noir Movies of All Time
Sunset Boulevard was rated number one. So yeah, it counts.
RandyG
@Pauline: It’s very noirish, so Magic Eight Ball says “OK!”
Eyeroller
@Chris: One minor correction, Casablanca was not pre-war even for Americans. It was released at the beginning of 1943 while the North African campaign was hot (the movie “Patton” starts around the same time period).
prostratedragon
@Scout211: Keeping in mind that All About Eve is all about Eve, and not Margo or anyone else, I think it counts also. That ending is as if she is being entombed with a harpy.
Eyeroller
@RandyG: In addition to multiple Philip Marlowes, I hadn’t seen this come up, but there were two version of The Maltese Falcon filmed before the definitive 1941 version. One, a very loose adaptation in 1936, was titled “Satan Met a Lady” and starred Bette Davis. It was very weird. An even weirder version was filmed in 1931 under the title “Dangerous Female.” It was more true to the novel and in some ways reproduced it better since it was pre-Hays-code. John Huston’s 1941 version (the source of the audio clip in the quiz) is the only one remembered, and it stuck very close to the book, though had to treat some of the suggestions of homosexuality even more delicately than the book does due to the Hays code that was in force by that time.
kalakal
@RandyG: Fun fact
Marlowe (1969) – the James Garner one had Bruce Lee in his first American role, he played a henchman
tsquared2001
@frosty: On the Waterfront was Elia Kazan’s justification for testifying to HUAC. Casting Marlon Brando at the height of his powers made being a snitch glamorous.
Layer8Problem
@Chris: Very good point. Yes indeed, the noir is there. Casablanca is Noirville, courtesy of Vichy and the predators picking apart the refugees. As Major Strasser put it “Perhaps you have already observed that in Casablanca human life is cheap.” But even there, Rick has the decency to take care of his people (Sam, Karl, Sasha, and the rest) and his bitterness never brings him to utter nihilism. And there is more cynical humor than a noir film would allow itself thanks to the Epstein brother’s marvelous script; we all know the lines. That having been said you’re right, I never considered that Rick’s casino operation must have certainly taken money away from some desperate people, just as a simple matter of the house always wins. Regardless, the bad guy gets vanquished, the good guy flies off on the Lisbon plane to America to continue his work, and the two guys left find themselves back in the fight, even if Rick lost Ilsa. It is still an uphill struggle but hope remains and the cause is just. Stuff like that can keep people going. We can certainly use that spirit these days.
NotMax
@kalakal
Bruce Lee had already played Kato in the 1966 TV series The Green Hornet.
Pauline
@Scout211: Thanks for that link! I’ve seen many of the movies listed but it’s that grand and delusional descent down the staircase that just sticks with me.
emjayay
@RandyG: Your local public library may have a lot of Criterion dvds as well as a lot of other noir. And with their dvds you will probably get a commentary track and other extras
Also this commenting system is one of the worst.
kalakal
@NotMax: Should have said film role ( and now you’re going to correct me again 😃)
emjayay
I saw Are You Lonesome Tonight? (2021, director Shipei Wen) last night. Notice the ? at the end and the date to find the right film of this name. It’s a very modern film with a lot of noirish characteristics. In color, which it uses in ways sort of analagous how noir filmmakers used black and white. Plenty of night scenes and rain and psychologicaly very dark. A lot in crimey/gritty/low life environments. Intentionally slow pacing but very unpredictable with all kinds of unexpected events happening but at the same time all ultimately making sense. Check it out.
This commenting system with replies a half mile below the original comment making conversation impossible still sucks, sadly.
Craig
@WaterGirl: double oops
barbequebob
David_C
Always late to these parties. Ah, the down side of being a morning person. Noir is one of my favorite film types. So many great films, stars, moments. And the cinematography. One film that doesn’t get its due is I Wake Up Screaming. This stars Victor Mature, Betty Grable, and Carole Landis. It came out around the same time as Maltese Falcon, but is not as well known. It’s not perfect (it had to have a swimming pool scene to show off the two stars, and for some reason a lot of the background music was “Over the Rainbow”) but it has the shadows, a hard boiled plot, and an absolutely stunning performance by actor Laird Creger, who died way too young.
On the quiz I got 3 wrong. Need to brush up.
redactor
@phein65: And in The Apartment! MacMurray’s screen persona changed 180 degrees in the ‘60s with the Flubber movies and My Three Sons, but he was great at playing the heel.
billcinsd
@Eyeroller:Film noir has its roots in 1920s-1930s German expressionist film (and many of the classics were directed by German refugees such as Billy Wilder).
Fritz Lang, too