Who’s next?
Calling all Democrats and supporters of democracy everywhere:
Step Right Up!
The people around Donald Trump are taking advantage of his diminished capacity to break the law.
Whatever they do now, we won’t forget — and we will hold them accountable.
— Governor JB Pritzker (@govpritzker.illinois.gov) October 17, 2025 at 10:13 AM
.
Jeffries: “ And then you got Karoline Leavitt, who’s sick. She’s out of control. And I’m not sure whether she’s just demented, ignorant, a stone-cold liar, or all of the above”
— The Bulwark (@thebulwark.com) October 17, 2025 at 9:24 AM
h/t for the Jeffries link Professor Bigfoot
Bravery and leadership are contagious.
The more people who speak up (and show up) the more other people will speak up and show up!
Look at the news organizations that don’t want to sign the stupid “we won’t report it unless you want us to” pledge.
Look at MIT and other institutions that don’t want to pay for protection and are saying so.
If you guys have more instances of our side doing this, please share links in the comments.
WaterGirl
I love the (not so veiled) threats: You may think you can do anything you want, legal or otherwise, but there will be a day of reckoning.
Let’s just call those gentle REMINDERS. And I want to see more of them. All the time. In response to every illegal thing they do.
Baud
Gloria DryGarden
It’s a wild thought: these masked, unbadged, un camera’d guys doing violent arrests combined with assaults designed to incite violence,
couldnt local law enforcement arrest them as criminals and kidnappers? Charge them with assault? They’re basically mugging people openly, in public.
Chief Oshkosh
@Gloria DryGarden:
I guess they could, but that would run counter to the inclinations of every LEO I’ve ever had the misfortune to deal with for over 50 years (with ONE exception).
jonas
@Baud: Until their lobbyists start pulling Republican senators and reps aside and tell them that either Congress puts the kaibosh on Trump’s overreach with tariffs and visas or they aren’t getting another red cent from the COC ever again, they’re not serious.
Scout211
Thanks, WG. Good to see there is “good trouble” now happening. Spread the word.
NO KINGS!
Baud
@jonas:
The first step is always the hardest. Hopefully, the Chamber and other business groups will find some courage to push back on some things.
RaflW
Mikey Johnson apparently got a whiff that he was out over his skis ~ apparently he stood at a lectern and claimed that tomorrows protests are a sign of free speech.
…as long as they are peaceful. That’s where I worry the chaos agents slip in and fuck over at least a few of the rallies. For folks going (I will be!) just be watchful. If things feel ‘off’ or you see people starting to cause a ruckus, move away. Do not engage. And have an exit plan, one that you’ve discussed with anyone else you’re attending with.
None of this is to dissuade a single person! Go. It’s important. And back to my main point: The full court press by the Admin and associates to tar everyone planning to protest has likely backfired at this point if Mikey is having to sanctimoniously lecture us that Republicans “support free speech” (they don’t).
jonas
@Gloria DryGarden: The *could*, but since ICE is mostly terrorizing/brutalizing POC, they don’t give a shit.
Now if a Dem president were siccing federal agents on, say, some white nationalist militia, then every sheriff in the state would be out there with his good ol’ boys in full SWAT tac ready to make war on the gubmint. Alas, as we know, there are those whom the law protects, but does not bind, and those whom it binds, but does not protect. We’re seeing that play out in real life on the evening news every day.
artem1s
@Baud:
This is a plan to put those visa up for the highest bidder. These are kids of oligarchs who want a legal way to set up their mob businesses in the US. They don’t want those visas going to medical students or researchers. The Nazis don’t want scientists gumming up the works anymore. I’m sure Trump gets to put a surcharge on top of that so he gets in on the action too. Also,too needs a way for Estonian whores geniuses to get matched up with Russian assets.
RaflW
@Baud: Here in farm country I’m expecting to start seeing stories of soybean crops that can’t find storage. Ports like Duluth seeing reduced shipping traffic. We already fully know that China isn’t ordering a single bean.
And while commodity crops like soy are fungible, so Argentina selling soy to China may mean US ag finds some markets Argentina is reducing exports to in order to meet Chinese contracts (but they’re also upping production – thanks in part to US fund guarantees! Another win for MAGA).
But the tariffs definitely distort commodity markets. And changes in export patterns have costs to be absorbed as logistics chains adapt.
Do farm state Chambers care? I do see that farm groups are upset. Dunno if the Cargil-Monsanto-ADM types have rattled their purchased Members of Congress.
jefft452
I predict Pritzker will be the next President
Newsome is great at trolling and shitposting, but at the end Pritzker is talking about locking these bastards up. I think that will carry more weight in the Primaries
eclare
This was weird. Power outage for hours this morning. Back now. Just weird.
JoyceH
@Gloria DryGarden: I believe these ICE vehicles are going around without plates for some reason and I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in every jurisdiction. So if local law enforcement doesn’t want to mix it up with ICE, don’t. Just tow their vehicles away. I think ICE would be a lot less aggressive if stranded on foot.
trollhattan
The WSJ editorial board discovers a thing about Donny.
And yet, you endorsed him for preznit three times. Hmm.
jonas
@RaflW: Oh, I don’t doubt that all these tariffs and other insane policies (closing rural hospitals, rounding up migrant labor) will be terrible for farmers throughout the country. Many will go bankrupt. They will still vote MAGA.
It was never about economics.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Have you seen the alternative? We’re not providing the oligarchs any good alternative to fascism.
zhena gogolia
@artem1s: Slovenian, please!
jonas
@Baud: Better than nothing, agreed. But what they want is a court to somehow stop Trump while a compliant GOP Congress keeps the tax cuts and deregulation in place. Have their cake and eat it too, in other words.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I willing to do a lot, but don’t ask me to put my hopes on the thugs and soul-less bastards at the Chamber of Commerce. I expect them to negotiate some kind of carve outs in exchange for their promise to appear on cable tv praising the Great Leader.
Baud
Both sides!
Baud
@jonas:
That’s their motto.
@Melancholy Jaques:
I agree that can’t be trusted. But I still hope for more opposition to Trump from multiple angles, just to normalize the idea that it’s an ok thing to do.
oldgold
@RaflW: It is not just soybeans. The economics of row crop farming are FUBAR. It is about to get fugly.
Here in the Hawkeye State, I think the political fallout of this is that we move back into the purple column.
Peale
@Baud: Since Trump hits everyone with tariffs, they might as well have moved forward with it.
Lyrebird
@Baud:
From my exp with different Chambers, I am amazed they said anything at all! Agree about first steps.
As far as signs of a shift of public opinions go, I will take this CNN headline as good:
” Joe Rogan Is Unpleasantly Surprised by Trump’s Actions. He’s Hardly Alone ”
…esp since the little news links on my browser have been heavy on the sanewashing.
Baud
@Lyrebird:
Heh. Rogan is unpleasantry surprised by Trump’s poll numbers.
Miss Bianca
@Peale: That would be my advice, if anyone was paying to listen to me.
Jackie
Last night we learned Abbott was sending the Texas National Guard to Austin’s No Kings protest. I think Walsh’s warnings are correct.
Jeffro
I just saw that Jeffries quote a little bit ago and HOLEEEEEEE SH!T this is what we need
(Even my MAGA relatives are like, “she said that? that’s not ok”)
stacib
@Gloria DryGarden: They actually grabbed a police officer from the Hanover Park (IL) department. He’s now in ICE custody.
hueyplong
@Jackie: The Texas National Guard must be the world’s 4th largest army, the way they deploy on so many fronts.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
What a bunch of gutless cowards. I’m so sick and tired of this appeasement shit. Whatever happened to the “TACO Don” stuff?
He’s a madman who will fuck them all over in the end. He never holds to his word. Might as well do the right thing
@Peale:
Exactly
stacib
@jonas: Who was that family that had the standoff with federal agents over using federal land to feed their cattle – and the insurrectionists won. Those folks were actually armed and yet no harm came to them. Somehow, I don’t think we’ll get the same consideration tomorrow.
trollhattan
Feel the Tariffpalloozamentum.
cnbc.com/2025/10/17/how-much-trump-tariffs-are-costing-small-businesses.html
An interesting read.
trollhattan
@Baud:
Rogan, I’m guessing, is surprised when confronted with numbers generally.
“Is them alien talk? And that takes me back to chemtrails.”
Gvg
Trump has no strategy, only unceasing greed, and an inability to visualize consequences. He always double crosses everyone, even allies and “friends”.
That is another angle to peel off some more of his support. Some of it is people who saw an advantage in joining a winning wave. We should be mentioning often how he hasn’t kept his own deals with his “own” side. Undercutting Republicans when he requested they take a certain stand even though it wasn’t what they wanted, then when they had done it, throwing the deal away. Not keeping his own trade agreement. Not sending help even to red states that voted for him after National disasters like floods, hurting the farmers again, and on and on.
Of course this only brings up my big problem with how do we end the shutdown? I can’t think of a way to make a deal that can hold, because Trump never keeps his word even when the law says he has to.
Jeffro
(fingers crossed)
Pritzker/AOC ’28!
trollhattan
@stacib: Bundys. And not even the Kenyan in Charge took them out.
JMG
@trollhattan: Small business owners are about the most Republican bloc in the country. I’ll bet 90 percent of ’em voted for Trump. My sympathy exists, but is limited.
Sure Lurkalot
@Lyrebird:
Not so fast. Different day, different tune. Got to keep the grift going.
Jeffro
It’s funny b/c all of these various wingnut-corrupted institutions wants one of the other guys to stop trump from taking us over the cliff…
“…you grab the wheel from him…no, YOU grab the wheel from him…”
…and so, here we are, stopped halfway over the edge of the cliff or mid-air, Wile E. Coyote-style, I don’t know.
ARoomWithAMoose
@JoyceH: Very few of the ICE vehicles before had federal or government plates.
Given the current GOP love of contractors for everything (to grease the conversion of public monies to private monies), MY UNINFORMED OPINION is the tags are being removed/obscured from what are the privately owned or rented vehicles, probably directly rented or owned by one of the ICE agents in the car.
If they drive their own vehicles, they can expense the mileage even if they don’t hit their quota for the day. If they rent from a private company, they can expense that.
Be wonderful if we had a protected class of people that could dig into that… and you know, do factual reporting on it. Oh well.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@stacib: I was disgusted by how that was handled. They should have come down hard on those clowns.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Should become a thing.
Joe Rogan is unpleasantly surprised every time he looks in a mirror.
Joe Rogan is unpleasantly surprised every time he looks at his crotch.
Joe Rogan is unpleasanty surprised by the number of people smarter than Joe Rogan.
Baud
Kathleen
Response to Professor Bigfoot #90 at downstairs thread:
No. According to Jim Acosta (and I’m sure other pod bros) now that public is blaming Repubs for shutdown the new Democrat Derangement Syndrome script is “Why are Democrats talking about health care? What about long list of horrors Dems are not hammering in this shutdown although in reality Dems have expanded the list. I maintain they focused on Health Care because it’s IMPORTANT, simple, and clear so that non political American could grasp why it was worth shutting down for. These effers can’t deal with the fact they are not audience Democrats are trying to reach.
Enough of my comment. I didn’t intend to post.
hueyplong
@JMG: 90% sounds low.
efgoldman
azlib
It may be a small thing. I attended the University of Texas at Austin and got my Masters in CS from them. I appreciated the education I got and signed up to fund an endowment for disadvantaged students. When I heard they were on the same list from Trump as MIT, I wrote the development department and said I would withdraw my pledge if they signed on to the Trump blackmail. Hopefully, that will have an impact.
Castor Canadensis
@Chief Oshkosh: They’re getting warned that it’s coming, gently, but right from the top. Governor Gavin Newsom started with the “No Secret Police Act” . I believe, but cannot find a credible reference, that a US mayor said they would authorize arrest of persons in ICE caught committing crimes.
trollhattan
@JMG:
What I’ll never understand is how they as a group fall for the laughable idea Trump has any business sense whatsoever. They must all believe the bigfoot film is real. “That’s it, I’m convinced.”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Good. They never should’ve been masked to begin with. They wear masks to avoid being identified and dodge accountability. It’s an admission that they know what they’re doing is wrong and that most people hate them for what they’re doing
trollhattan
@Castor Canadensis:
It sounds good in principle but I question how local and state LEOs arrest ill-trained ICE dudes in body armor toting semiautomatic rifles.
Baud
@azlib:
Good for you.
JML
@azlib: having worked for a university Foundation, when alumni who are active donors and have active pledges make that kind of statement, people start paying attention. What has zero impact is people who have never given back writing in and saying “I’ll never give you a dime if you do X or don’t do Y!”
And it’s not just about the money: people who are giving at smaller levels get noticed not because of their dollars, but because of their engagement and their loyalty. If someone who has given $25 a year for 20 years writes in and says, “I don’t want to support you any longer and here’s why” the smart places take it very seriously because it could be a sign they are losing the engagement of people who love the school, and it can start spreading fast and work up to people who are giving big amounts too.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Sure Lurkalot:
Uh, funded by “FBI Agents”? Joe, you do know who is in charge of the FBI, don’t you?
Aziz, light!
Joe Rogan is unpleasantly surprised that he has to come up with new dudebro bullshit to keep his ratings high.
trollhattan
My faith that corporations have their employees’ needs foremost in their minds is suffering a bit, lately.
Belafon
@RaflW: yep. Maybe make a big announcement that the person next to you is an undercover agent.
p.a
No cable, so: has anyone in the press asked for evidence of Soros etc Bucks? Or are all these assertions being made in front of GoebbelsMedia?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jeffro: I love Jeffries calling out Leavitt. That stuff about all the Democrats being terrorists etc is indeed demented
WaterGirl
@Kathleen: May I ask why you didn’t intend to post?
trollhattan
So uncharacteristic.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jeffro:
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
She’s such a deeply vile person. So Leavitt fits in well with the rest of that administration
WaterGirl
@azlib: How good of you to have signed up in the first place, and double-good that you are putting your money where your mouth is, as they say!
That’s no small thing.
Baud
Matt McIrvin
@Jackie:
Y’know, if it were, say, Indivisible telling us this, I’d pay more attention, but I’m not sure Joe Walsh gets to tell us that.
People are gonna do what they’re gonna do. I think if they’re not there to cause trouble they can wave their Palestinian flag.
trollhattan
Glad I have no travel plans ATM and would think twice about flying, in general.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
Seized, not rescued. That says a lot.
They’re not sure what they are going to do with the survivors.
My take? If it’s women, children, innocent fisherman, they will be killed or disappeared.
If any of them are bad guys, they will be publicly displayed as trophies.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
I’ve taken to referring to Leavitt as Diva Braun.
;)
Geminid
@Baud: The EU has its own emissions mandate which has already conditioned projected ship construction. This US/Saudi veto may turn out to be a rearguard action that only slows the clean energy transition.
trollhattan
@Baud:
“Where are these survivors. Can we interview them?”
“Survivors? Survivors? Hmm, hey Phil, do we have any survivors?”
“Lemme look. {rustle rustle} Nope, I don’t see any here, or here, or in the filing cabinet. Gonna say no, no survivors.”
“But you said there were survivors.”
“Look buddy, I sure never said that and besides, do you see any? Interview over.”
trollhattan
@Geminid:
Trump threatens banning them from US ports. He’s gone full off the rails here.
Captain C
@Aziz, light!: Maybe can just start eating the live roaches and whatnot that he used to make other people do on Fear Factor.
p.a
Also too, while Young Republicans are in the news covered in shit, any of our enterprising journos looking at pols, appointees, party & puke funnel apparatchiks who were members? Checking their posts?
Remember long ago reading that Rethug pols are so successful at guttersniping because they learn it & use it against each other to get ahead in the YR organization.
WaterGirl
@Matt McIrvin: They CAN, but it is good strategy? We are fighting for our lives here.
I’d say the clearest message is the best. This is a NO KINGS protest. Leaving Gaza, Israel, and Ukraine out of it seems like the better strategy, even if it was suggested by Joe Walsh.
Trivia Man
@Scout211: I appreciated the variation being used by Democrats Abroad – NO TYRANTS. To avoid offending host countries with monarchs. “I guess it’s ok for you, but we don’t want a king” doesn’t easily fit on a sign
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Eh, according to that string, an actual list of names/identities hasn’t been posted. Not sure that to make of this so far.
Fair Economist
@NotMax:
Oooh, that’s good!
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I don’t think we’ve ever had a large protest without some group using it for their own issue. It’s only a question of how many and how much attention they garner.
Trivia Man
@WaterGirl: Im not the flag police, but if they asked me i would suggest leaving the Palestinian flag home this time. You KNOW any Palestinian flag will lead every news story. Last madison protest that flag was the largest flag around. Only a couple dozen in the group, but it dilutes the overall impact.
Jeffro
Mr. Walsh is a better guy than he used to be but he needs to CTFO. Just showing up for #NoKings is, by definition, loving America.
zhena gogolia
@Matt McIrvin: Yeah, it’s not the kind of thing a Democrat says.
Baud
Via reddit
Stacib
@Matt McIrvin: Even a broke clock… For what it’s worth, I think he’s right this time. All messages should be absolutely focused on THIS country and the assaults to the our Constitution.
Trivia Man
@JoyceH: and enforce the laws against transporting passengers in the back of a cargo van. No excuse for that, not even PROTECT OUR IDENTITY AGAINST RETALIATION applies here.
no body no name
Trump is ranting confusing a B-52 with a B-2. Idiots all of them!
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: And that is partly our choice. We can focus on the 100 people who are “off message” or we can focus on the 10,000 with “No Kings” signs.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: I expect there will be plenty of Palestinian flags out tomorrow. If the ceasefire in Gaza holds, this could be that protest movement’s last hurrah. They’ll make up with flags what they lack in numbers.
Speaking of the Gaza ceasefire, Israeli journalist Guy Elster posted this today
It’s about 30 miles from Rafah to the Egyptian port of Al-Arish.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Matt McIrvin:
@zhena gogolia:
I agree
Omnes Omnibus
@Trivia Man: You mentioned this before. I again disagree. I was at that rally and I did not think that they diluted the overall message.
Trivia Man
@Jeffro: Prisoner’s dilemma
Paul in KY
@Chief Oshkosh: Agree. Also they might fear some heavy backlash from the Fed Kapos if they did that.
Paul in KY
@RaflW: You know they’ll be some ratfuckers there. Paid ones and just anarchist douche ones too.
Heidi Mom
@Matt McIrvin: Thanks for the encouragement! I’m taking my Ukrainian flag. What better example of devotion to democracy than the Ukrainians?
Trivia Man
@Kathleen: my brothers response: democrats are to blame because biden was old and kamala partied with beyonce.
That is almost word for word what he said. Glad i only text him so i can take long breaks in the conversation.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
This is horrifying. I seriously doubt, given the admin’s history of lying, that these people are cartel members. And even if they were they’re still entitled to due process and should never have been targeted for murder by the US Navy.
I fear for them and worry they could be “disappeared” or simply die in custody like several ICE detainees have done. The fact that they are in a legal gray area makes their situation even more perilous
Sure Lurkalot
@trollhattan: Republicans zeal for making Mother Earth uninhabitable (at least by humans) seems to me part of their “masculine” appeal.
Don’t tell us bros what to do! We are forever five years old and it’s mommy’s job to clean our rooms!
Paul in KY
@jefft452:Pritzker/Newsome would be a fine ticket for me. Gavin can be the main attack dog, ala Darth Snarly.
Ishiyama
28 USC 1442 & 1442a permits removal to Federal Court of State criminal charges against Federal agents (and military) acting in an official capacity. So State charges aren’t a viable route.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I think the issue is what the media and reporting will focus on. Not what we focus on.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I can accept that. While I can’t say anything good about those bastards, if they are opposing that asshole, I can keep my mouth shut.
WaterGirl
@Captain C: You had an extra character in your email address so your comment went into moderation.
I fixed it in this one, but you’ll need to fix it and then make a comment so that’s what your device will remember.
Paul in KY
@Jackie: Agree with Mr. Walsh. Also (IMO) protesters should look as ‘whitebread’ as they can. As ‘average Joe/Jane’ as they can dress. God bless all the No Kings protesters!!!
hueyplong
@Trivia Man: Figures someone like that would consider partying with Beyonce to be worse than partying with Epstein.
Melancholy Jaques
@Jackie:
While Walsh is correct that the right-wingers will try to find or create such images at No Kings rallies. They will only need one or two to flood their social media silos. And if they can’t find any, they will just use something from a different time or place. They’ve been doing this on social media for years.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Well, the people with the Palestinian flags are going to show up. How do the organizers handle it? Let them March or tell them to fuck off. The Palestinian marchers at the last No Kings in Madison we’re a small group who seemed to be entering into the general spirit of the thing. I say let them march and don’t make a fucking fuss about it.
Geminid
@Melancholy Jaques: I doubt if any “pro-Palestine” protesters will leave their flags home on Joe Walsh’ or anyone else’s sayso. These are very oppositional people, and they have their own agenda.
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
Or use AI.
Paul in KY
@Matt McIrvin: I disagree with that. Certainly it is still a free country (at present) and if some grandstander wants to bring their effing Palestinian or Israeli or Ukrainian flag they can. I do agree with his ideas on this. Should be like the old civil rights demonstrations were done back in early/mid 60s. Those guys had it down to a science and they were dead serious about the look they wanted for the demonstrations.
Professor Bigfoot
@NotMax: GOOD ONE.
scav
The old mandatory lockstep messaging must be perfect, singular and unanimous model for a big-tent protest in support of freedom and the celebration of diversity conundrum.
Jackie
@Matt McIrvin:
Walsh is now a registered Democrat. He was a former tea party member. He didn’t go half assed and announce he was now an independent.
As for waving a Palestinian flag, the NG and MAGA thugs will consider that a red flag as anti-American – possibly using that as a reason to start trouble – while blaming the flag holder as the troublemaker.
Normally I’d agree with you, but I in this instance, I understand what Walsh is saying. The No Kings protest is about being American and protesting anti democracy. YMMV
jonas
@stacib: That would be Cliven Bundy and his clan (klan?) of privileged asshats.
Paul in KY
@Baud: Back in the good ole days, our kindly union thugs would take care of that problem tout suite.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Pretty much this.
The right will just make something up to smear the protests with if they have to, even if absolutely nobody showed up with Palestinian, Ukrainian, etc flags
hueyplong
@Ishiyama: Removal isn’t dismissal, so you need to add “and they’d never be convicted in federal court” for such charges to be called “not viable.” If the argument is that US Attys would drop the charges, then let’s make them do that and then make a big deal about it. Folding first seems less attractive to me.
Captain C
@WaterGirl: I saw…right after I posted. I’m not on my usual computer, so hopefully the fix holds (thanks upgrade to Windows 11…)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
That’s basically how to describe all the major protests/rallies here in Denver this year.
Easily the loudest, and always there, group is the small knot protesting about Palestinians/Gaza. Even at the AOC/Sanders rally, at least before it kicked off, they were there with tons of loudspeakers drowning everybody out. The way that rally was organized, they didn’t have the platform to be that way for 4 hours unlike at the previous No Kings rally or the one big rally we had earlier in the year that had a fantastic (and somewhat unusual) Hispanic presence.
And relating to the whole “diluting the message” discussion, even at that one, a longtime trans friend (who’s white) commented about how it might “dilute the message” because it was *very* Mexican-heavy presence. And in the next breath wondered where all the gay/trans protesters were. That was the revealing statement because it was made clear it would be great if *they* were there in force, that wouldn’t dilute the message.
I rolled my eyes and said “that’s gotta be the dumbest thing you’ve said in the 40+ years I’ve known you. In a month, one of the largest gay/trans parades in the US will happen and here you are kvetching about the *one* time the significant Hispanic element in this region is getting some cooperative face time at a protest with white people.”
So, I get irritated when I’m at the protest and the Palestinian Protest Knot with their gobs of audio gear overwhelm things from time to time but even they get lost in the overall crowd when it comes to reporting afterwards so let em come.
tobie
@Jackie: Hmm…I’ll try to print out some stars and stripes to put on my signs.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: It’s good advice. I’m taking my daughter tomorrow. Our signs are going to be something like:
“God Bless America – No Kings!” and “I kinda like Democracy”, or similar
jonas
@trollhattan: Feel bad for them, and certainly not all of them are MAGA. But many are and all I can say is, “well, you voted for this.” It’s not like Trump was shy about saying he was going to jack up tariffs on everything.
But again, I suspect economic/business considerations were not at the forefront of their minds when the pulled the lever for the orange felon.
Kathleen
@Baud: I blame Jeffries and Schumer.
Trivia Man
@Omnes Omnibus: I am not the flag police, i wont tell anyone what they may or may not bring. I actually think a wide variety of flags helps – Palestine, Israel, Ukraine, EU, Mexico… bring em all. Diversity is our strength.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I think the chance the kids with the Palestinian flag will show up at my hometown protest is 100%. They’ve come to every one.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@jefft452: I like the cut of both of their jibs. If pushed, I prefer Gavin Newsom. 2028 is a long, long way away!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
OT: that is a beautiful landscape photo by BigJimSlade on the sidebar. Does anybody know where it was taken?
Ohio Mom
The irony of Palestinian supporters joining protests against Trump after a significant number of their community voted for him is not lost on me.
Full disclosure: of course I support Palestinian self-determination, I’m agnostic on two states vs one truly democratic one. I believe each side of the conflict is a bigger asshole the the other. I am also not betting on this current peace holdIng, as much as I would like it to.
Matt McIrvin
@Sure Lurkalot: The anti-environmentalist streak in modern conservatism and the natural-foods/supplements/woo aspect (which relies heavily on the Appeal to Nature fallacy) seem at odds with one another until you realize they’re both going by “change needs to be reversed/it was good enough for Grandpaw”. We used to despoil the environment any way we wanted and it was OK. We used to not get vaccinations (well, a hundred years ago) and it was OK.
Still, I think there’s a weird contradiction in RFK Jr. trying to vanquish chronic illnesses supposedly caused by processed foods or environmental problems when he’s allied with the anti-regulation party. Don’t you think lead paint and poison in the drinking water might be an issue there, not just vaccines and Tylenol? etc.
piratedan
I can see where Walsh is coming from to “stay on message”, my counter is that these fuckers don’t care how pure our rally is, if they don’t have any fuel they will simply make up shit or misrepresent former marchers and cut and paste anything that will suit them. They’ve done it before and for fucks sake, its Faux News entire MO.
At this point people are pissed and are going to march, let them, chances are high that it will be peaceful and if anything happens, it will likely be instigated (again, based on previous MO).
Baud
Charles: Andrew, have you had a chance to tour the Tower of London? I’d be happy to show it to you.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@jonas: right up until the day they are almost homeless they will likely do as you say. Then, desperate, they will intone something like “I guess I am just another taker now” and if you know them at all it will break your heart.
Ayn Rand, the poison that just keeps on stealing American souls, leaving people bereft, angry and unstable in this world
Kathleen
@Trivia Man: Laugh Emoji. TBH I don’t think that’s worst than what I hear and read from “allies” in the media.
Old School
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The Alps. (The On the Road was this week.)
HopefullyNotCassandra
@stacib: the Bundys is the family I think you mean. Cliven and Ammon Bundy, just living on the American dole, feeding their cows on public land and crying foul! that the government (that maintains that land) said you’ve got too many cattle for the public! water to support.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@Sure Lurkalot: funded by FBI agents? How much does Mr. Rogan think agents make?
Joe Rogan obviously missed Jeanne Pirro’s face plant acquittal, too.
emptywheel.net/2025/10/16/revenge-of-the-lib-tard-jeanine-pirro-wins-first-humiliating-acquittal/
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Now I need to rethink my position.
Timill
@Baud: “And now we come to this butt of malmsey wine…”
JaySinWA
Or literal false flag people. AI may be cheaper and easier though.
Miss Bianca
@Sure Lurkalot: In this case, mommy is Mother Nature, and when *she* tells them to clean up their rooms, there’s gonna be some shit flying for sure.
Baud
Via reddit, if you can stand to listen to Trump, this short clip regarding Venezuela is pretty telling.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
They’ve done both in an effort to convince the cult that Portland and Chicago are basically 1975 Beruit.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: I know this is shallow of me, but man…does “Randy Andy” look shockingly old and dumpy in recent photos. I remember him being at least somewhat trim and blandly handsome back in the day, but otoh, “back in the day” is probably 30 years ago now!
I mean, Charles looks old too, but he’s wearing his age a lot more gracefully than his horndog bro, at least to my eyes.
Maybe being an unmitigated asshole like Andrew, as opposed to a somewhat mitigated one like Charles, just ages you faster…?
Geminid
@Miss Bianca:
Republican: You are not the boss of me!
Mother Nature: How ’bout a little fire, scarecrow? Or a big flood? Or both?
Republican: Help, FEMA!
Tehanu
Story in the L.A. Times this morning, USC (U. of So. Calif.) has told the feds to eff off. I’m a UCLA alumna and we always laughed at USC, but I’m very pleased by this.
Harrison Wesley
I’m going with my friend tomorrow and neither of us plan to take anything except our aging white carcasses.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: Trump Administration: “NO FEMA FOR YOU!”
hueyplong
@Miss Bianca: Being sort of an optimist at times, I’m hoping the latest royal “news” is an objective indication that the general public is about to get a big dose of previously undisclosed Epstein info.
Omnes Omnibus
@Timill: That was a Duke of Clarence. Completely different thing. They were Yorkist though.
Scout211
Has this been posted yet?
These Young Republicans sure are a bunch of babies. But why are all the MAGA mad? He was just exacting a little Republican-style revenge on a former friend who slighted him and treated him terribly. You know, just like Trump is doing now. No big deal, right?
Baud
@Tehanu:
Good. More schools are doing the same.
Also, it bears repeating that many airports have refused to air Noem’s video blaming Democrats for the shutdown.
Old School
@Baud:
For those who didn’t click:
Omnes Omnibus
@hueyplong: Virginia Giuffre’s memoir just came out.
Paul in KY
@Timill: Great for the complexion Mr. Windsor…
hueyplong
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, thanks. Gotta admit I leave the detail work to others on all things Epstein, so I didn’t know there was an already known reason for the action.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Old School:
@Baud:
Trump literally admitting that he wants to kill people just to kill people and has no real goals beyond that, because, according to him, Maduro has already offered him concessions. The Republicans better vote for that War Powers Resolution, because this is not going to be like Iraq in the beginning where everyone outside the antiwar movement was for the war. The Trump regime is nowhere near as subtle as Dubya was
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: That Dukedom has been somewhat cursed. Last one was conjectured to have maybe been Jack the Ripper (he probably wasn’t).
Anyway, I forecast that just as they’ll never be an Edward IX, or a Henry IX or a John II or a Mary II, they’ll never give out the Dukedom of Clarence again. That one will just stay with the monarch.
cain
@stacib:
The police union is going to have a conniption.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Things like that, along with the major news orgs refusing to sign that Pentagon pledge, give me a bit of hope
@Omnes Omnibus:
Obligatory: I’m Against It
Tony Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
To be technical, ever since the first Henry Tudor married Elizabeth Plantagenet, all English (and then British) monarchs have claimed to represent the lineages of York and Lancaster. So drowning Andrew the Embarrassing Ephebophiliac in a wine barrel would be as traditional as multiple wives and a predilection for chinlessness.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Old School:
Thanks
Gloria DryGarden
@RaflW: im entertaining the thought that trump could sell some of his properties, and use his “personal” money ( no telling how he got so much of that..,) to bail out Argentina.
It is not in the country’s interest, to give that taxpayer money to Argentina. Spend that $20 b on unsaid, and help the American farmers sell their products, or spend it on Ukraine, to prevent WWIII from escalating
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: @hueyplong: I just read an excerpt published in The Guardian. Nauseating shit. Maxwell, Epstein (I mistyped it as “Epstain”, which seems oddly appropriate), and Andrew would all be bound for Hell if I actually believed in the Christian cosmography these days.
dm
@Tehanu: Brown & the University of Pennsylvania, too. With MIT and USC, that makes for of the nine schools that were “offered” the “compact”.
Gloria DryGarden
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve got the Guardian excerpt of Giuffre’s book up in my tabs.
Book has a release date of oct 21. Next week! My library has 10 copies on order, and a holds list waiting for it.
I’m waiting for the ebook. I guess I’m holding off on reading the excerpt too, it’s sure to trigger, and stir up negative feelings.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gloria DryGarden: USAID. Sorry I didn’t catch that typo.
Betty
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I read that these guys were in a semi submersible which at least gives credence to the idea that they were transporting drugs. That still doesn’t justify the air attack.
This is tricky issue for Caribbean leaders because cocaine coming in from Venezuela is a problem, and I am not aware any of them criticizing the attacks. The Prime Minister of Dominica has been a long- time ally of Chavez and Maduro, but he is keeping his head down these days.
Eyeroller
@Sure Lurkalot: Near the top of the previous thread, Suzanne posted an excerpt from some right-wing screed about how it’s all women’s fault:
I don’t need to emphasize to anybody here that “empathy” and “rationality” are not opposed to one another. Of all the misogynistic swill I read, the assertion that men are “rational” and women are not irritates me the most. Men just channel all their emotions into anger and then deny that anger is an emotion, ergo they are rational QED. It’s infuriating.
Omnes Omnibus
@Paul in KY: Gloucester’s the one to go for. Or the thainships of both Glamis and Cawdor.
Castor Canadensis
@trollhattan: I sure wouldn’t recommend doing do if I were the police force in Wallaceburg! I’d call the OPP for a SWAT team.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh absolutely! On the day of the March, all marchers with good intent are welcome. But I still think it’s good advice for people to consider ahead of time.
Gloria DryGarden
@Ishiyama: if ice is acting officially, they need to dress accordingly, and follow due process. Name tags, visible faces. Without that, and hauling people off to unnamed locations without charging them, assaulting people as part of their arrests, it’s outside of official behavior.
I don’t think they deserve any protections or oriviledges.
IANAL.
WaterGirl
@Captain C: My sympathies on the upgrade.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Can you summarize for those of us who don’t have the fortitude to listen to him.
Cat Radio
@Gloria DryGarden: I read it: Yes. It . Will. I’m somewhere between rage at the predators and sorrow for the girl that did what she was told, because she wasn’t aware that she had agency. Oh – yeah, she didn’t. Not in that world. I say Burn Them, burn them all. And if that includes Bill Clinton, so be it.
Timill
@Omnes Omnibus: Younger brother of the then King, though, so that much would be the same…
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Comment 151 covers it.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Revenge for me, but not for thee!
Castor Canadensis
@Paul in KY: The ones with non-American flags should be watched carefully by the organizers.
Consider the problem of agents provocateurs. I’d watch out for folks carrying flags that will annoy the police/army, and visibly looking for a fight.
American Flags are good. My Canadian flag would be out of place.
Melancholy Jaques
@Miss Bianca:
I have the same reaction when I look in a mirror.
Melancholy Jaques
@Omnes Omnibus:
Me, I want to be the Duke of Earl.
Scout211
They have copies on Libby and are taking holds for the release next week. Both e-book and audio book are available. I’m #4 in the holds for my library on Libby.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: exactly that.
a few weeks back I wrote a Demi-poem about fire and flood and a scarecrow. Not great literature, but a girl can dream of her ill wishes, no?
it’s on bluesky, where I fight for every character, ruthlessly deleting punctuation and spaces, to fit in an extra word or two.
Omnes Omnibus
@Melancholy Jaques: Philistine.
Timill
@Gloria DryGarden:
Amazon ebook linky thingy
Gloria DryGarden
@Scout211: wow. Yesterday Libby didn’t have it. Today it does. Thanks! I’m in the holds list.
Gloria DryGarden
@Timill: thank you!
Aren’t you in Tennessee? There are hints of possible meetup locations, Chattanooga, and up north a bit. My close pal in Rome/ Summerville would sure be glad to meet some jackals in his area.
My opinion, human contact is a balm and a nourishment in these interesting times.
JoyceH
@Castor Canadensis: And there needs to be plenty of American flags! We can’t stop people if they want to bring Palestinian flags but we need to overwhelm them so that no news photog can frame a picture so there are one or more Palestinian flags but no American flags. Because to too many people Palestinian equals Hamas equals terrorist. And yea that’s false and unfair but we’re not going to win that argument quickly and easily. So just – lote and lots of American flags.
Timill
@Gloria DryGarden: Yup – just outside Knoxville/Oak Ridge.
Meetups could be good, presumably in the Chattanooga/Knoxville corridor not too far off I-75.
Gloria DryGarden
@Cat Radio: burning. Or other, slower methods. In trauma therapy, one spends some time on this. It seems to release and relieve some of the, um, feelings left over.
For people who don’t know why ms Giuffre killed herself, a quote from Andrea Dworkin, about women living after rape: “ I don’t wonder at why they died. I wonder at how long they live.” IYKYK.
JoyceH
@Timill: In the coverage of the Andrew thing, it was said that the Duchess of York would be known as Sarah Ferguson. Uh… not Sarah Windsor? She was married to the guy.
BC in Illinois
@Paul in KY:
I agree with this approach. I also don’t object to Ukrainian or Palestinian flags in attendance, or people carrying signs I don’t agree with. Just leave your hockey sticks at home.
For my own part, I served without distinction, stateside, in the US Navy from 1969-1973. I never said much about being a veteran for the next 40 years or so — [when I thought of veterans, I thought of my brother and my cousin who went to Vietnam, or my parents (WAC and Army Air Corps) who served in WW II ].
Until 2017. When I went to a St Louis march against Trump’s Muslim ban, I bought a “Veteran” hat with a USN anchor on it. I wore that hat again when I held one end of a banner (2019) that said “Impeach !” For the first “No Kings” rally/march, I added a US Navy t-shirt.
I figure it messes with people’s stereotypes.
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: I have the same experience on Twitter, with its 240 character limit. It’s kind of good in ways because it makes me condense arguments.
And I take full advantage of “&,” plus the various flag emojis: Turkiye🇹🇷, Israel 🇮🇱 Azerbaijan🇦🇿, Armenia 🇦🇲 etc. I like the flags, especially Azerbaijan’s and Armenia’s; nice color combinations.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: hey Géminis, on the subject of things in Turkiye, I was listening to some YouTube’s about Karahan teke, and Gobekli teke. Overly long videos.
In the Karahan teke one, he contrasts all the male phallus sculptures all over the place with the “so-called mother goddess” of the ancient farming community in Çatal Huyuk. Guess I won’t be listening to that guy anymore. Oops. So-called? The nerve!
Timill
@JoyceH: It seems to be common for Royal brides still to be popularly known by their previous names – Lady Diana Spencer, Meghan Markle, Wallis Simpson, etc..
She gets to choose…
stinger
@Paul in KY: I dunno, nobody thought there’d be a Charles III.
Scout211
@JoyceH: Sarah and Andrew’s daughter’s last names were York (before they married), which confuses me. But all things royal confuse me.
So Sarah’s married royal name was “of York” I guess. ;-)
Omnes Omnibus
@Scout211: William and Harry used Wales as a surname during their military service. I think surnames are a matter of convenience to them. The dynastic name is Windsor, but beyond that they don’t seem to use it.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@Cat Radio: I don’t think it does. If Bill Clinton was in the Epstein files in ugly-evil fashion, somebody from the frothy Clinton-hate land would have leaked it by now.
Way back when Bill Clinton was Arkansas’ governor, somebody invented the notion that young Bill Clinton created & ran the Medellin cartel. It did not matter to the frothing-fibber types that Bill Clinton was actually a Rhodes scholar when that cartel surfaced either.
Back then, the Clinton lie machine was a great way to separate the Dixie crowd that was infiltrating the GOP from the midwestern normie/loving Lincoln GOP. Today, the Dixie-gop crowd practically (& occasionally actually!) just sports the stars & bars, instead (& quite a few of them seem to hail from NYC).
President Biden’s department of Justice just would not leak that kind of thing, even against this president. Those folks took rule of law seriously. It is highly likely no politico in Biden’s administration even looked.
just my two cents.
NotMax
@.BC in Illinois
“Where’d that guy get the outfit?”
“Old Navy.”
;)
Lyrebird
@Sure Lurkalot:
Sigh, you have a very good point!
Although as far as Trump and friends continuing to alienate the bulk of the FBI, go right ahead you creeps! Make more white Republicans feel shut out!
Could be a bad pun in there I guess.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha before 1917, when George V renovated the House.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@Scout211: because the leak reflected who maga is like the painting of Dorian Grey?
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: I sent an article about the Mother Godess shrine to my friend Joan. She’s traveling to Turkiye next week for a six week visit, and Catul Hayuk is on her itinerary.
I sent Joan a text this morning reminding her that she’ll be in earthquake country and should keep a go-bag nearby at night with passport, cash, warm socks, long underwear, a water bottle and baklava.
Aussie Sheila is visiting Turkiye now. She’s commented on how hospitable Turkish people are.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: I wish I could go to çatal huyuk! Fantastic. I hope she sends you pictures and tells you how the land/ ecosystem feels there. Some people feel time bleed throughs in ancient sites, maybe she will.
On my tablet, if I hold down the letter, it offers me accent choices, such as that C with cedrille . I’m not sure how that works on a regular pc.
tell me how to find this article about the Mother goddess shrine… is there a link?
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: I’ll look for the article. It was on a Turkish news site, maybe Daily Sabah. That’s their top daily newspaper.
I think someone could spend a year in Turkiye and not get to all the archeological sites if they tried. The Hellenistic-era ones are especially spectacular, but there are excavations of sites going back to the Hittites and beyond.
There is a mountain near the Aegean coast where flames burn constantly from a natural gas vent. The ancient Greeks called it Chimaera. The locals visit it and bring along pots and hang them on poles to brew tea.
kalakal
@NotMax: There was a certain amount of anti-German sentiment at the time. Same reason their cousins the Battenbergs became the Mountbattens.
Also why the UK calls German Shepherd dogs Alsatians. They had a try out with Belgian Police dogs ( to bring notice to the fact the beastly Huns were occupying Belgium at the time) but that never caught on so they went for Alsatian ( to bring notice to the fact that the beastly Huns had been occupying Alsace since the war of 1870)
Etv13
@Ishiyama: Federal trial courts and juries just might be more sympathetic to these claims than you think. They’ve thrown out a lot of claims against protesters.
Jeffro
@Dorothy A. Winsor: it REALLY registers with “normies”!
Reminds me of when Education Secretary Rod Paige tried to call teachers’ unions “terrorist organizations” nearly 20 years ago. The blowback was INTENSE
Etv13
@hueyplong: pretty sure removal does not equate to “change the prosecutor.” I have removed (civil) cases to federal court, and the parties and their counsel stayed the same.
Jeffro
110%
somehow in their minds “No Kings” = “We Hate America”
um, no…read history much, MAGAts?
They can BS all they want, but to normies it must sound like the GOP is as high as a kite
Jeffro
@Geminid: “…and baklava” LOL
Eyeroller
@kalakal: As you probably know, Americans also had a renaming frenzy in WWI but unlike “Alsatian,” most didn’t stick. (Dachshunds were “liberty dogs or “liberty hounds” and sauerkraut was briefly known as “liberty cabbage”.) Much like the “freedom fries” from the beginning of the Iraq war when the French were being derided as cheese-eating surrender monkeys.
Some towns in the US and Canada named for German cities were renamed permanently, however. I was surprised to learn that Kitchener, Ontario, was originally named Berlin.
ETA in the US at least, the “Belgian police dog” is called the Belgian malinois. I am not into dog breeds so don’t see much difference between them and German shepherds, but dog people do separate the breeds and there seem to be some pretty subtle differences.
mapanghimagsik
@Matt McIrvin:
Suppressing speech he doesn’t care about. I get that, and while I understand his point, such as it is, fuck him. (I swear I had a more thoughtful response, but it’s been a long AI fueled day)
Karen Gail
@Gloria DryGarden: What so many don’t realize is that many of the victims of rape end up reliving the rape. A smell, a color, model of auto can all trigger the remembering. I ended up with a group of rape victims and was surprised just how many would relive the whole thing. Therapy doesn’t really work for those who totally relive the whole thing; one young man said the only thing that helped him was knowing his rapist was killed horribly. The strange part was this was a pagan group that someone mentioned they were having trouble sleeping and asked for help.
Kayla Rudbek
@JoyceH: and go look at the old OSS manual for sabotage as well
Kayla Rudbek
@Tehanu: as a Notre Dame alumna, it’s tough to cheer for Southern Cal, but cheering them on for this!
Gloria DryGarden
@Karen Gail: there’s a lot people don’t realize. And even flash backs from a trigger, that don’t entail the entire relived movie, can be rough, with terror feeling states, and body memories, that don’t just shake off.
I wish I could get the connection from your being with a group of victims/ survivors, to the thing about a pagan group, and folks not being able to sleep. I couldn’t make the leap, or connect which pronouns went with which. What was weird about it being a pagan group?
For me, it helped when my perp moved out of state, but also, EMDR made a night and day shift in the ptsd states I had been in.
Btw, sleep can be a real ongoing issue, if things had happened at night, or at home, or just because one can’t totally relax and feel safe.
Paul in KY
@stinger: Sorta agree, though Charles II was a pretty cool dude. His dad, not so much.