Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

So very ready.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

The revolution will be supervised.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

The lights are all blinking red.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Find someone who loves you the way trump and maga love traitors.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Epstein, Epstein, Epstein

Epstein, Epstein, Epstein

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Is the Epstein scandal blowing up in Trump’s ugly orange face again? Maybe! (NYT gift link)

House Democrats on Wednesday released emails in which Jeffrey Epstein wrote that President Trump had “spent hours at my house” with one of Mr. Epstein’s victims, among other messages that suggested that the convicted sex offender believed Mr. Trump knew more about his abuse than he has acknowledged.

Mr. Trump has emphatically denied any involvement in or knowledge of Mr. Epstein’s sex-trafficking operation. He has said that he and Mr. Epstein, the disgraced financier who died by suicide in federal prison in 2019, were once friendly but had a falling out.

But Democrats on the House Oversight Committee said the emails, which they selected from thousands of pages of documents that were released by their panel on Wednesday, raised new questions about the relationship between the two men. In one of the messages, Mr. Epstein flatly asserted that Mr. Trump “knew about the girls,” many of whom were later found by investigators to have been underage. In another, Mr. Epstein pondered how to address questions from the news media about their relationship as Mr. Trump was becoming a national political figure.

Trump’s spokes-liar Karoline Leavitt alleged House Dems cherry-picked the documents “to distract from President Trump’s historic accomplishments, and any American with common sense sees right through this hoax and clear distraction from the government opening back up again.”

In the words of my generation, as fucking if! 

Republicans retaliated a couple of hours ago by releasing more than 20,000 documents and claiming Democrats are implicated too. Reporters are poring over them as we speak.

According to the Times, Epstein was corresponding via email with Larry Summers in 2018, though nothing salacious has bobbed to the surface so far. I don’t give a fuck about Summers and don’t think the broader public will either.

If I were an enterprising reporter, I’d start by searching every name on the Mar-a-Lago membership list. If I were a Democratic member of Congress, I’d keep right on insisting on the release of all the files.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

216Comments

  1. 1.

    Jackie

    CNN is reporting the WH is planning a meeting later today to discuss the Epstein files.

    They’re also reporting Boebert is attending.

    eta:

    Multiple sources told CNN that Attorney General Pam Bondi, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, and FBI Director Kash Patel were meeting with Boebert at the White House on Wednesday.

  2. 2.

    Belafon

    Republicans: There are Democrats implicated as well.

    Democrats: Prosecute them as well.

    The only name that would truly demoralize me if it appeared would be Obama, and I suspect Michelle would kill him first.

  3. 3.

    Archon

    A duly elected President of the United States was likely involved at some level in a conspiratorial sex trafficking ring of underage girls. He is without a doubt involved in the cover up, yet he is still President with almost unprecedented power and an enormous cult following, so large that he is still more popular than the party opposing him.

    There is a part of me that wonders in my low moments, does America deserve to be saved?

  5. 5.

    iKropoclast

    @Belafon: Republicans: There are Democrats implicated as well.

    Democrats: Prosecute them as well.

    Bears repeating

    🐻🐻‍❄️🧸🐻🐻‍❄️🧸🐻🐻‍❄️🧸

    I don’t even think the most vehemently partisan Democrat wants to protect pedophiles in the party

    @OP: If I were a Democratic member of Congress, I’d keep right on insisting on the release of all the files.

    I wonder if the current doc dump helps or hurts in that regard.

  6. 6.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    “to distract from President Trump’s historic accomplishments, and any American with common sense sees right through this hoax and clear distraction from the government opening back up again.”

    You mean like crashing the economy in record time?  I mean, Trump just replace Herbert Hoover on that, twice.

  8. 8.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Belafon: It’s truly comical that Republicans can’t understand this. They really can’t grasp that we’re not at all like them.

  9. 9.

    Jackie

    @Betty Cracker: I think so. I’m pretty sure given who’s reportedly attending the meeting, she’ll be threatened with being primaried – or go after her less than angelic son.

  10. 10.

    MattF

    Heather Cox Richardson says the current moment is like the instant the cue ball hits the triangle of unracked pool balls. Everything goes everywhere and no one can predict what happens next. Including the regiment of Professional Opinion Havers.

  13. 13.

    Old School

    Trump’s spokes-liar Karoline Leavitt alleged House Dems cherry-picked the documents

    Yeah!  Why didn’t the Democrats release documents that didn’t implicate Trump??!!ONE?

  14. 14.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Archon: It really doesn’t, but also all of us who are not with the crazed white supremacist program don’t deserve to go down with the ship.

  17. 17.

    Steve Paradis

    @Belafon:

    The slightest mention–being present at the same occasion, in the same large room, staying in the same hotel–will be elevated into a bacchanal.

    But the only ones convinced are already convinced.

  18. 18.

    trollhattan

    I’m having MuellerTime pstd and not allowing my pulse rate to budge.

    Maybe Bibi will appeal to America to exonerate Donny of any prior wrongdoings and let bygones be bygones. Also, too, the Liberal Democrat Party is the real enemy.

  20. 20.

    Jackie

    I remember that one of the Democratic Caucuses wants to have ex-Prince Andrew speak in front of them re the Epstein files. He has no f’s left to give; so I wonder if he would state under oath what he knows regarding FFOTUS and the victims.

  21. 21.

    oldgold

    Was today’s release of Epstein’s emails an attempt to make it more difficult for Boebert and/or Mace to flip before Grijalva is sworn in and signs the discharge petition?

  22. 22.

    laura

    I care about Larry fucking Summers – I wish to see him reduced to wearing a barrel.

    Extreme pussy fever is so normalized – all the important men in positions of power seem to be in on it since all my adult life. Whether it takes down Shitler, who knows, the base loves them some transgressive, rancid crime boss, and the entire Republican party has been reduced to a testicle cozy, so shrug emoji.

  25. 25.

    p.a.

    Demoncrats too!  Go after them!  But notice if the admin tries the Fux News shuffle: an elected Rethug pol  does/says  something disgusting, then Fux quotes some nominally Dem college administrator for example saying something odd or bad from a conservaturd perspective.  An actual elected scumbag compared to a nobody with a platform spouting something; that’s their “both sides” shuffle.

    As I’ve noted: Donald tRump has always been a scumbag.  He was a Dem: scumbag.  He was Reform Party: scumbag.  Independent/Unaffiliated: scumbag.  Republican: elected President scumbag.  Only they elected that trash.

  26. 26.

    Shalimar

    @Jackie: Everything I have ever read about Andrew suggests he’s an arrogant, privileged piece of shit who really believes he is better than everyone else and how dare you discuss these things that are supposed to remain private.  I can’t imagine him ever even acknowledging what he did, let alone talking about it in a public hearing.  I would love to be wrong though.

  28. 28.

    JoyceH

    @Scout211: There was an interview with Guiffre from early this year after Trump had been sworn in – she was upbeat and optimistic because Trump was president now and he’d promised to release the files. I’ve always wondered if her suicide was caused by her growing realization that Trump was going to break yet another campaign promise and the coverup would continue.

  29. 29.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @laura:

    I care about Larry fucking Summers – I wish to see him reduced to wearing a barrel.

    Same here.  I’ve always said that the first two places I’m gonna hit when The Revolution commences are his and MattY’s.

    I’d settle for him being implicated in a pedophile ring as the next best thing.

  30. 30.

    Shalimar

    @p.a.: If FoxNews really wants to cite prominent Democratic attorney Alan Dershowitz as an advocate of sex with underaged girls (he did write an article supporting it decades ago in addition to his involvement with Epstein), I won’t object.

  31. 31.

    Deputinize America

    “Historic Accomplishments” of fucking people over for no purpose other than to serve a corrupt and morally bankrupt ideology of pretending to supply quality goods and services while delivering shit.

  32. 32.

    tam1MI

    @oldgold: Was today’s release of Epstein’s emails an attempt to make it more difficult for Boebert and/or Mace to flip before Grijalva is sworn in and signs the discharge petition?

    Or it may have been an attempt to get the party back on track after the Quisling Caucus debacle.

  33. 33.

    JoyceH

    @Shalimar: I suspect what’s got Andrew in a snit is the suggestion that a woman didn’t want to have sex with him. Back in those days there were plenty that did. I remember that era – Charles was the stodgy boring prince and Andrew was the dashing sexy prince. I suspect wherever he went he could just turn around and find a young woman eager to go to bed with him. I imagine he always assumed that Guiffre was one of those.

  36. 36.

    oldgold

    After today’s revelations, it is hard to believe someone is not going to come forward with something from the files that is going to test the Fifth Avenue Shooting Theory.

  37. 37.

    Jeffro

    @Jackie:Multiple sources told CNN that Attorney General Pam Bondi, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, and FBI Director Kash Patel were meeting with Boebert at the White House on Wednesday.

    why this is exactly what you’d do if a) an INNOCENT man was b) DEFINITELY NOT in the files

    (not enough eyerolls in the world)

    also…DOJ, THE FBI, and THE AG are NOT trumpov’s private legal defense team, MAGAts!!!

  39. 39.

    Searcher

    @Belafon: I’d like to think Obama is too good a person to have been involved, but also I think his rise was a little too quick for him to have been in the right circles at the right time before he was President, and after he was President Epstein had already fallen.

  40. 40.

    Shalimar

    @JoyceH: Andrew also reportedly had a massive appetite for prostitutes on overseas trips, literally thousands of them over the years, so I am not sure he cared so much about consent or attraction.

  42. 42.

    fancycwabs

    In an effort to “move beyond this” Trump will issue pardons to everyone who raped children or procured those children to be raped at the child-rape club.

  43. 43.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Betty Cracker: Great line! My favorite law saying ever since I first heard it on “Better Call Saul”. Jimmy says it at the very end when everything is falling apart.

  44. 44.

    Jackie

    @Shalimar: But now Andrew has minimal clout and he’s probably F.U.R.I.O.U.S.! Taking the president of the U.S.A. down with him might make him feel a tad bit better ;-)

  45. 45.

    Shalimar

    @Scout211: Since when has Trump ever in his entire life spent hours with a woman that wasn’t sex?  What would they even say to each other?  That is their defense?

  46. 46.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Archon: the Cult Following is a key feature. I think addressing that is important.

    I found a YouTube with clear perspective and steps to change the situation, on the daily beast channel, featuring Dr Steven Hassan. It’s called “Trump Mind Control”. I offered the link in yesterday’s t-bogg thread about sisyphus, comment #531. I’d love to see it discussed here.

  47. 47.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: They probably showed Boebert a printout of all the money they have raised for Thomas Massies primary challenger.* And spoke slowly and made sure not use any big words.

    * Massie has long been the Republican House caucus’s biggest Israel sceptic, so Miriam Adelson is dumping a lot of money into that race

  49. 49.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Shalimar: there’s always the enjoyment of rolling out his charm and intimidation games. I’m sure that feeds his ego too. He probably likes to look, and leer, and talk. Talk. (Does he ever not, I mean except when he’s sleeping or dozing off?) How long can sex last, at his skill level?

  51. 51.

    Shalimar

    @Geminid: Massie is the biggest asshole in the House.  If anyone is going to be more extreme than the other Republicans on something, Massie is always the first guess.  I will be shocked if Republican voters stop supporting him, regardless of how much money they spend.

  52. 52.

    iKropoclast

    Just finished the article. Acosta is someone who really demands more scrutiny. Also, I find it fairly funny Wolf was recommending Epstein to position himself against Trump. A calculated political ploy, but I know Republicans will be using this as a spurious “see, he hated Trump.”

  53. 53.

    Belafon

    @Searcher: I think the timing completely leaves him out of it. It also doesn’t fit his personality. Just like I wouldn’t expect Biden to be on that list.

  54. 54.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Shalimar: Since when has Trump ever in his entire life spent hours with a woman that wasn’t sex?  What would they even say to each other?  That is their defense?

    Trump has had a lot of trouble getting good lawyers, probably because he stiffs them so often. [/S]

    Just to be clear, I agree completely. This doesn’t pass the laugh test. Even if it’s true, it can only be that Virginia Giuffre gave Trump the story.  So, what did he do about it?  Throwing Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago seems insufficient, especially given Alex Acosta’s role in the cushy first deal.  This is going to be explosive.

  55. 55.

    Betty Cracker

    CNN just broadcast a snippet of Leavitt’s briefing. She was asked why the White House is meeting with Boebert, i.e., are they trying to pressure her into flipping her vote for the release (duh!). Leavitt says the meeting just shows “how transparent” the admin is. True! But not in the way she meant.

    GOP Rep. Hurd is now on CNN and trotting out the line that the Dems’ document release is just a distraction from reopening the government. They need to workshop that.

  56. 56.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Shalimar: I’m afraid I agree with you. I also think he probably has an agreement with Charles to lie low and keep his mouth shut (so the monarchy is not dragged through more shit by him) under threat of being cut off from monetary support, free housing, and the title “Princess” for his daughters.

  57. 57.

    iKropoclast

    @Gloria DryGarden: How long can sex last, at his skill level?

    I kind of picture him as a performance anxiety guy, like he’ll try and try til he’s frustrated and the mood is gone his paid time has elapsed.

  59. 59.

    Shalimar

    @Gloria DryGarden: Maybe.  I have not read Giuffre’s book, but it does not seem like she spent much time around Trump.  I think the White House is just lying about who the redacted name is.

  63. 63.

    Old School

    @Betty Cracker:

    Leavitt says the meeting just shows “how transparent” the admin is.

    I thought the news of the meeting with Boebert was a leak from anonymous sources.  That’s transparency?

  66. 66.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Another reason why some of us care about Larry Fucking Summers and his connection here:

    x.com/DavidAstinWalsh/status/1988652690336047485

    Over the years, a lot of people pretend that Summers’ well-known sexism was taken out of context but there he is emailing pedophile Jeffrey Epstein 10 years after the scandal, explaining that he thinks women have lower average IQs than men.

    Reminder about him:

    He was forced to resign from the presidency of Harvard because of, among other things, comments he made about women being innately bad at science. Under his leadership, hiring of female faculty reportedly dropped precipitously.

    Probably not a pedophile but still scum.

  67. 67.

    Deputinize America

    @Shalimar:

    My home is at the far western edge of his sprawled out district – we have nothing in common with yokels who live along the WVA state line in the east save for a large GOP demographic lump (that’s associated with living in the priciest zip codes in the white exurbs of Louisville).

    I did a judicial run in 2022, and observed him at some events I was obliged to attend. For somebody who doesn’t know jack shit about his district and who dances like a Koch controlled marionette, he’s actually not a bad retail politician. He makes people think he’s listening to them and responding to the things that he’s being told when in reality, he’s just going to do what his paymasters tell him.

    My feeling is that he’s safe from a primary because of this; besides, wierd as they are, KY04 voters are reavers and won’t tolerate someone they perceive to be a new lickspittle.

  68. 68.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @JoyceH: I wonder about her death too. And about the accident where she sustained some pretty difficult injuries. We know sometimes accidents have been “arranged.”  Virginia Giuffre was outspoken, and fearless, and while others have spoken out on interviews one can see on YouTube, those slip from view, fading after a few weeks. her book won’t disappear.  She was such a fighter, and I’m not convinced she gave up.

  69. 69.

    Jeffro

    @Paul in KY: they can keep playing ‘whack-a-mole’ all they want with moving Maxwell to minimum security, bribing Boebert, waiting to seat Grijalva, hoping they win that open seat in TN, etc etc…

    …in the end, NONE of it says “yup this sure is an innocent man right here in the WH”, and it’ll stay on most Americans’ radar until he croaks, is impeached/removed from office, or leaves office in 2029.

  71. 71.

    Paul in KY

    @Jackie: He is susceptible to being bribed. I wouldn’t necessarily believe anything that came out of his mouth. Would need to have receipts, etc.

  73. 73.

    Geminid

    @Shalimar: Yeah, I think Massie will withstand this challenge.

    But I don’t think Boebert can win the CO04 primary if Trump endorses someone who is from the district. Last time, Boebert parachuted in from across the Rockies. She won a crowded primary with Trump’s Trump’s endorsement.

  76. 76.

    Paul in KY

    @Shalimar: He’s more popular now with the poor Dems in his district. Another thing to put on the ‘Weird and Crazy Shit I’ve Seen’ list.

  77. 77.

    MazeDancer

    Apparently, Trump has called Boebert and Mace directly to get them to take their names off the discharge petition. As an innocent man would do.

    If they don’t understand it is all coming out now and  they can go down with Trump or look like heroines, nothjng can help them.

    So far, allegedly, the women have refused.

  78. 78.

    Shalimar

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: You would think a former president of Harvard would be aware that IQ is a very limited and easily biased reflection of intelligence.  It is also easily documented, and I suspect women on average do better on it than men even though men have traditionally written the tests.

  80. 80.

    Jackie

    Karoline Leavitt was forced to lie so baldly at today’s press conference she didn’t wear her customary cross necklace. Nor cross earrings. I didn’t watch; so have no clue what she said, but saw a glimpse of her attire lol

  81. 81.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m still chuckling from that shitheel telling his friend *Jeffrey Epstein* DO NOT REPEAT THIS INSIGHT because it’s slightly too racist/sexist for polite society.

    I use the word “insight” loosely.

  82. 82.

    iKropoclast

    @MazeDancer: Apparently, Trump has called Boebert and Mace directly to get them to take their names off the discharge petition. As an innocent man would do.

    What was it the tough on crime folk always said in the 90s? The security state assholes post 9/11?

    If you didn’t do something wrong, there’s nothing to worry about.

    It’s nice to bring that argument into a situation where it isn’t being used to deny civil rights.

  83. 83.

    Paul in KY

    @Jeffro: I sure hope so, but we (Democratic politicians/whomever makes political commercials)  have to keep flogging it and hanging it around his greasy neck. The average voter has a short attention span and is easily distracted by metaphorical squirrels.

    We absolutely CANNOT rely on the media to do it.

  84. 84.

    Gretchen

    @Gloria DryGarden: Yes, I listened to that interview with Steven Hassan. He’s an expert in cults and addressed dealing with a Trumper the way a family would approach reprogramming a family member in a cult with concrete suggestions of how to talk to them. He has his own podcast also but this interview was on the Daily Beast podcast channel.

  86. 86.

    tobie

    @Betty Cracker:

    Leavitt says the meeting just shows “how transparent” the admin is

    I’m assuming there was no follow-up to this asserttion like, “If the White House is so committed to transparency, why doesn’t it order the DOJ to release all the Epstein files?”

  87. 87.

    Matt McIrvin

    Well, gee, if the problem is that the documents were cherry-picked, there’s a way around that.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @trollhattan: I honestly doubt there’s anything in there we don’t already know. Mostly the political utility is in reiterating the things we already DO know, and getting them back in the news.

  89. 89.

    Redshift

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    “His accomplishments” goes back to the first term (now upgraded to “his historic accomplishments.” It gives the cult something to repeat when they don’t know of any specific accomplishments, which is what a normal person would talk about instead.

  90. 90.

    Betty Cracker

    CNN says Epstein victims will attend Adelita Grijalva’s swearing in today. Also, here’s what Trump barfed up on his social media platform:

    (1/3) The Democrats are trying to bring up the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax again because they’ll do anything at all to deflect on how badly they’ve done on the Shutdown, and so many other subjects. Only a very bad, or stupid, Republican would fall into that trap. The Democrats cost

    (2/3) our Country $1. 5 Trillion Dollars with their recent antics of viciously closing our Country, while at the same time putting many at risk — and they should pay a fair price. There should be no deflections to Epstein or anything else, and any Republicans involved should

    (3/3) be focused only on opening up our Country, and fixing the massive damage caused by the Democrats!

    Cornered rat.

  91. 91.

    Doc Sardonic

    Strangely enough, the Epstein stuff is gaining traction on Twitch. I am starting to think that, as the old saying goes, this has legs.

  92. 92.

    Matt McIrvin

    …I do think, though, that it’s interesting that there’s even a concerted effort to bury this stuff. Trump’s usual MO is to do all of his crimes right out in the open, brag about them and dare somebody to do something about them. Because if there’s no coverup, there must not be a crime. This must be OK now.

    It’s kind of remarkable that the connection with Epstein is an exception. If there’s any exception, it’s politically useful to harp on it.

  93. 93.

    Belafon

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I honestly doubt there’s anything in there we don’t already know.

     
    There may be nothing we haven’t speculated about, but to know would mean having proof.

  94. 94.

    rusty

    I should go find my Larry Summers quote where he says it is okey-dokey to ship polluting industries to the third world countries because the people there aren’t worth as much.  He is a horrible person, it would only be what he deserves.

  96. 96.

    JML

    Look, there are going to be names of prominent Democrats that come up if everything they have related to Epstein is release. The dude was pretty relentless about his need to be connected to everyone he could in the NYC circles of power and anywhere else he could shove his perverted little hands into. That’s how Bill Clinton ended up getting some rides to Africa on his plane, etc. There’s going to be more than a few where it’s Epstein chasing them for access.

    If any of them went further than that, fry ’em.

    But let’s be prepared for them trying to dirty up every NYC dem that might have crossed paths with that sleazebucket.

  97. 97.

    Suzanne

    @Belafon:

    Republicans: There are Democrats implicated as well.

    Democrats: Prosecute them as well.

    This is the correct attitude, and the one that you have when you’re a citizen rather than a cult member.

  100. 100.

    Geminid

    @Doc Sardonic: The Epstein matter seems to be one that interests people who otherwise don’t pay that much attention to politics.

    My friend Stephanie votes in every election and votes Democratic, but she’ll watch the most mediocre sportsball game before she’ll watch the best political show available. But a couple months ago, when I asked Stephanie if she was paying attention to the Epstein case she said, “Oh yeah.” I could tell.this affair really matters to her.

    I think the reason is she’s a woman, and she has a college age daughter. This stuff hits women in a way it does not hit men.

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    @JML:

    But let’s be prepared for them trying to dirty up every NYC dem that might have crossed paths with that sleazebucket.

    What are the odds that Andrew Cuomo is on the list? ***snicker

  103. 103.

    Suzanne

    @Steve LaBonne:

    I would be delighted to see that odious asshole Summers go down.

    I remember the day that I found out that Josh Duggar had two Ashley Madison accounts. I’m still riding that emotional high.

  110. 110.

    Kosh III

    @laura: “I care about Larry fucking Summers – I wish to see him reduced to wearing a barrel.”

    Nah. Penniless exile to Adak, Alaska in the furthest western Aleutians.  Sign him up for SNAP when he arrives.
    That’s the best we can do as we can’t send him to Siberia.

  113. 113.

    MisterForkbeard

    LGM also notes that Trump is giving Ghislaine Maxwell hugely preferential treatment in prison in an effort to keep her quiet, at the same time he is personally calling Mace and Boebert and leaning on them to not release further files.

    Whats amazing is how guilty he looks. I mean, wow. You have to try hard to self-incriminate this badly

  114. 114.

    Kosh III

    If Bill Clinton is on the list, everyone will shrug and ask: what’s your point?  He was an alleged womanizer as governor.

  117. 117.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro:

    …in the end, NONE of it says “yup this sure is an innocent man right here in the WH”, and it’ll stay on most Americans’ radar until he croaks, is impeached/removed from office, or leaves office in 2029.

    Yeah, same reason I was convinced from March 1973 on that Nixon was guilty: when you act for all the world like you’re trying to hide stuff, you’re probably trying to hide stuff.

    And I was still a Republican back then.

  118. 118.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kosh III: Also he isn’t currently in elected office and hasn’t been President in almost 30 years. But if he’s in there let the chips fall where they may.

  119. 119.

    TONYG

    @Archon: “America” as a nation has done many evil things for more than 200 years so, no, “America” does not deserve to be saved.  There are alot of decent people in “America” though, and they do not deserve the shit.

  120. 120.

    cain

    @Jackie: Since Boebert has direct experience around these sexual matters, no doubt she was an important participant in these discussions.

    Of course, we know that she’s being leaned on not to be a signature. She will likely fold because she needs Trump’s endorsement.

  121. 121.

    trnc

    @Belafon:

    Republicans: There are Democrats implicated as well.

    Democrats: Prosecute them as well.

    Republicans who regularly call democrats vile, etc: We don’t want to embarrass democrats.

    (Fasctor Mike literally said that a couple of months ago)

  123. 123.

    cain

    @trollhattan: ​
    I’m having MuellerTime pstd and not allowing my pulse rate to budge.

     

    I agree. Trump has been able to withstand any scandal and lawsuit out there. The only thing that has proven effective is voting. We should stop focusing on Epstein files and just focus on getting our votes out there and flipping congress. Nothing else matters.

    If something happens, then great but otherwise we’re depending on a party of pedophile protectors to do the right thing.

  124. 124.

    Gregory

    Karoline Leavitt alleged House Dems cherry-picked the documents “to distract from President Trump’s historic accomplishments, and any American with common sense sees right through this hoax and clear distraction from the government opening back up again.”

    In other words, she didn’t deny their substance.

  125. 125.

    Wilson Heath

    I would not mind at all if Larry Summers finally goes down if there was something shitty he did on the Epstein front.  Fuck him.

    And, as with innuendo and accusations visa vis Clinton and the Epstein files, if there is dirt on Summers, why is the administration protecting prominent former Dem officials? Out of the kindness of their “hearts”? Or because they’re protecting someone else?

  127. 127.

    Betty Cracker

    @cain:

    We should stop focusing on Epstein files and just focus on getting our votes out there and flipping congress.

    I think we can and should do both. Also, making Trump and Republicans as unpopular as possible will be helpful in thwarting their toxic agenda in the short term and flipping congress in the future. Last but not least, Epstein’s victims deserve justice irrespective of the political implications.

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Archon: Three hundred sixty some odd million people?  You want to write us all off?  That seems a bit bloodthirsty and cruel.

  129. 129.

    cain

    @Betty Cracker: I think we can and should do both. Also, making Trump and Republicans as unpopular as possible will be helpful in thwarting their toxic agenda in the short term and flipping congress in the future. Last but not least, Epstein’s victims deserve justice irrespective of the political implications.

    Yes, but there is nothing actionable to do around the Epstein case. It’s all theater. It’s important theater because it has an effect of weakening the GOP and Trump mostly.

    But we need to face the reality that this might not actually do anything. It’s like a short cut. Only voting is going to fix this problem. We can do whatever we like in the pursuit of justice for Epstein’s victims and cleaning the clocks of all the GOP and Dems involved after we win.

    As a group we are suffering PTSD and we’re desperate to put our hopes on something that will just stop this madness. But it’s always going to be an incremental process. Trump’s DOJ is not going to convict Trump or any GOP people.

  131. 131.

    cain

    @Belafon: They are also screaming about healthcare and SNAP and those issues actually lead to poverty, homelessness, and death for them. This administration is going to ignore them.

  133. 133.

    Tony Jay

    It would be ridiculous, damming, and entirely on-brand if the US Media chose to fixate on the possibility of a Clinton/Epstein scandal while completely ignoring the massive, ongoing effort of a corrupt White House and its Congressional remoras to hide evidence that the current sitting President of the United States was involved in a paedophile blackmail network and is currently providing preferential treatment and dangling a pardon in front of the convicted sex-trafficker who knows exactly what he did.

    Ridiculous. Damning. They’ll totally do it.

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TONYG: Yeah, no, I am not partial to arguments that the United States is so uniquely evil that it does not deserve to survive as a nation-state.

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Nation-states don’t deserve anything, good or bad. It’s the wrong question. People deserve dignity and basic rights by virtue of being people. Nations can commit themselves to that or not. Breaking up nation-states has consequences for the people, though. I think people who haven’t been through the chaos of a total disruption of government don’t necessarily have a feel for the cost.

  137. 137.

    M31

    @laura: Larry fucking Summers hit skeevily on a colleague of mine, at which she just laughed. No more came of it, though I would have enjoyed any aftermath — my colleague is a totally vicious tough broad (in the best sense) — hahahaha Summers would been skewered, the piece of shit.

    Rot in hell you misogynist asshole.

    Never forget that when Summers was president of Harvard not only did he make those creepy ‘women not smart’ comments (to a room full of fucking tenured Harvard women scientists, some of whom I’ve known over the years and the shit they go through on the way up is astounding), but he personally intervened to direct how Harvard investments were allocated, and cost them BILLIONS of dollars because he bet very wrongly during a downturn.

    Why anyone listens to him is beyond me.

  138. 138.

    JoyceH

    I would hope, when everything is revealed, that we would have a better understanding of how Epstein got so rich. The ‘financial adviser’ story is obviously bogus, but can you get THAT rich running a sex trafficking blackmail business? The guy had a mansion in Manhattan, a ranch in New Mexico, and a private island. Plus the ownership and frequent use of a private jet. Getting these things is obviously expensive, and so are operating expenses once you have them. It seems to me that if the blackmail had been that lucrative, he would have been dirt-napped a lot sooner than he was.

  139. 139.

    WTFGhost

    @Belafon: Obama also probably doesn’t want or need the attention of young women. I knew many a woman for whom he’s on whatever list of potential cheats they keep with their partner.

    (The polyamorous side of me wonders if they truly considered those lists. “If my wife met Obama, and he wanted to have sex with her, I’d say ‘go right ahead!'” *I* could say that (safe sex protocols still mandatory, we’re fluid bonded), but I wonder if modern folks have actually thought of that, and decided, yeah, okay, for this celebrity who will never meet my partner, I wouldn’t deny (her, in my case) the chance!”)

    I earlier mentioned that I think Bill Clinton could possibly be seduced, but I firmly believe he’d be sickened by, and report, any underage sex he knew about. Being seduced, by a sex slave, isn’t good, he should feel ashamed of himself if that happened. But his mens rea in such a case would be  “having sex with a consenting adult.” Would anyone be able to stop him, if he was blackmailed, from destroying Epstein, just because he could, with a few phone calls? I don’t think so. I heard it said he’s got some sex abuse in his past. You really don’t want a victim to learn you’re one of the filthiest human beings to exist, not if he still has connections to some of the world’s most powerful people.

    If any of the Biden family knew, I firmly believe Epstein would have been shoved into a very deep hole, that not even a federal prosecutor could dig him out of. Joe Biden, hearing about sex trafficking, of children? He’d erupt volcanically!

    Let’s be honest, too: I believe that George HW and George W would also have destroyed a sex trafficking organization that they believed was trafficking children. Republicans *love* to destroy sex trafficking operations, and, it’s the one place where I find their rage somewhat appealing.

    But you have people who want a permanent Republican majority, and they realize that if they supported a bosom buddy (in all senses of the word) of one of the filthiest human beings alive, it will make Republicans look bad. They are willing to say “maybe it wasn’t so bad, it happened in the past, it’s not like revealing it will erase the suffering of the children who were raped, and, does anyone really care about the suffering of the innocent? This is America after all!”

    And it’s true; some of those Republicans might have even covered up sex abuse of children in their own churches, saying that “Christian forgiveness means criminal immunity!” for which I believe Jesus, St. Paul, and St. Peter would clobber them (and St. Pete might circumcise them for proclaiming themselves Christ followers, without a proper Jewish conversion experience). (I hope I remember my bible correctly on that. No offense if my brain fucked up (again), St. Pete!)

    My post is gonna vanish again, but the good part about practicng myhumanity is I know I won’t get it right, just like practicing medicine.

  140. 140.

    RSA

    FYI (open thread): My organization, in the Department of Defense, is planning for its furloughed workers to be back in the office on Friday, possibly even tomorrow, depending on the timing and outcome of the House vote.

  142. 142.

    Belafon

    @geg6: He’s still getting some housing, covered by Charles personally, but all of the family heirlooms were removed before he could move in.

  146. 146.

    suzanne

    @geg6: He still gets free housing, on the Sandringham estate, no less, and Charles is financially supporting him for the rest of his life. And his daughters maintained their titles.

  147. 147.

    Captain C

    @JoyceH: Possibly he had clients for the information and influence he gathered who saw Epstein’s luxuries as necessary expenses and had the means to protect him until he became a liability.

  148. 148.

    Shalimar

    @WTFGhost: There were accusations 30 years ago that George H.W. Bush was involved in a sex trafficking ring before he became president.  I don’t remember the details because it has been a long time and also I didn’t find it credible then.

  149. 149.

    HopefullyNotCassandra

    @Wilson Heath: this regime would not protect Bill Clinton.  Larry Summers?  Perhaps he was a gop plant all along.  That would explain many things.

  150. 150.

    geg6

    @suzanne:

    Not in quarters they are used to and paid by Charles, which means they have to come begging for every penny.   I read in Tina Brown’s Substack, I think, that the daughters were not keeping their titles.  Whoever’s Substack, it was a Brit with connections, so I believed it.

  151. 151.

    Shalimar

    Lauren Boebert ‘convinced’ Epstein conspiracy afoot as Trump pressure backfires – Raw Story

    Boebert later told CNN’s Manu Raju that she would not remove her name from the House petition despite pressure from the president and his team.

    “My understanding is that the relentless pressure campaign that has included carrot, stick, good cop, bad cop, has made her even more dug in, suspicious and convinced there’s a conspiracy at play,” Karni explained after the meeting.

    Was not expecting Boebert to have the normal, human reaction to attempts to manipulate her.

  153. 153.

    Geminid

    @JoyceH: Epstein was a limited partner with the Bear Stearns investment banking firm during the 1980s– the “Go-Go Years.” He helped float a lot junk bond issues for companies including Trump’s casinos. So he could have piled plenty of money then. And he stayed involved in finance right up until the crash in 2008 which took down Bear Stearns. That happened to the same year he got sweethart plea deal.

    How Epstein got to be a limited is another question. But he was a slick talker who knew human psychology, so he may have booststrapped himself.

  155. 155.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @geg6: No, he will be living on an estate owned privately by the Royal family not in a grace and favor apartment at state expense.  It is my understanding the his children received their status as grandchildren of the sovereign.  IOW it was not derivative of Andrew’s titles or status.

  157. 157.

    Jeffro

    @Matt McIrvin:I honestly doubt there’s anything in there we don’t already know

    oh, but let’s double triple quadruple check, just to be sure!

    besides the easy-to-assume “ick” when it comes to Donnie and young women, I suspect there’s a couple over the top things in there…there almost have to be: MAGA already knows he’s a womanizer and doesn’t care.  but he’s terrified that they’ll see the whole Epstein Files

    why is that

    ETA: along those lines…although we might well gross ourselves out…we really ought to get a pool going as to just what the over-the-top stuff is on trump in the Epstein Files

  158. 158.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Shalimar: It would be kind of hilarious if right-wing conspiracy madness that began with Qanon/Pizzagate etc. gave us the votes needed to actually get the files released!

  159. 159.

    tam1MI

    @Belafon: I believe all of that has already happened.  He and Fergie have been tossed from their free housing, he is no longer called a prince and the kids have also lost their honorifics.  Just happened a week or two ago.

    I believe the daughters were allowed to keep their honorifics.

  160. 160.

    Doc Sardonic

    Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie were allowed to keep their titles being that they were children of the son of a Sovereign per the 1917 Letters of Patent of King George V

  162. 162.

    Kirklin

    @Jeffro: I’ve suggested a few times that we’ll find not only dead girls and live boys but snuff – along with proofs of money movements from and to unexpected participants.

    And of them all, I think the proof of money movement scares them the most.

  163. 163.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Kosh III: exactly. And NY Dem politicians from 20 years ago, who cares? We already know Weiner and Cuomo are horrible.

  164. 164.

    Geminid

    @UncleEbeneezer: Boebert had no political profile until the Covid pandemic. Then she made a name for herself resisting shutdown orders for her restaurant. Boebert was able to parley that reputation into a primary win over a Republican incumbent, Scott Tipton.

    I don’t think Tipton realized she might beat him. He saved a lot of his war chest for the general election, and never used all the negative information on Boebert that was available to him. The Democrats did, but she still carried CO03 by 6 points, same as Trump did that year.

    I followed that election because Tipton was one of three Republicans who lost their primary that year. Another was my Congressman, Denver Riggleman, who lost to Bob Good.

  165. 165.

    Princess

    @Geminid: I’m not convinced Boebert will lose her primary to a Trump choice if the files do come out thanks to her. I trust her and MTG to have a better grip on how MAGA is feeling than the people in the WH.

  167. 167.

    Jackie

    @Shalimar:

    Was not expecting Boebert to have the normal, human reaction to attempts to manipulate her.

    I’m amazed, too! Maybe standing up to the administration bullying will gain her kudos with her district. And, maybe she’s seen enough from the newly released emails to suggest FFOTUS is in trouble (or will be) with MAGA. I guess if she holds strong, early Dec we’ll all see everything for ourselves. I think the Republican House members trying to protect FFOTUS will be the ones on the chopping block come election time.

  168. 168.

    Geminid

    @Princess: I don’t think Greene has to worry. But Boebert did not break 45% of the vote in her first CO04 primary, and that was with Trump’s endorsement. I don’t think she could win against a strong challenger who has Trump’s endorsement. She carpetbagged into that district to begin with, and she has other obvious deficiencies.

    But I’d like to see her try. I’m like, “You go girl! Let Lauren kook…I mean, cook!”

  169. 169.

    PJ

    @cain: Anything that makes Trump and Republicans look worse is going to help us come election time.  The Epstein files will probably have negligible effect on the 27% of America that are MAGA true believers, but it will make a difference with “independents” and the less brainwashed.

  171. 171.

    JoyceH

    @suzanne: I think the difference is that Charles is supporting Andrew out of his private fortune, so he’s no longer being supported by the taxpayers. And as for giving him private support, I suspect that’s the least harmful outcome they could devise. If they just dump him in a ditch without a dime (or a pence, I guess) he’ll have to find some way to support himself. In other words, he’ll write a book.

  173. 173.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @geg6: Unless something happened this morning I don’t know about, I have to disagree. He lost his lease to Royal Lodge, which belongs to the British crown (so is technically owned by the government), and is being moved to a cottage (I think) on the grounds of Sandringham,  which is personally owned by Charles. (Victoria and Albert personally bought it). Also, he has lost his government support,  and is living now on money personally given to him by Charles from his personal income. So lots of leverage to keep him quiet, no matter how nasty he wants to be. Similar to how the royal family paid the Duke of Windsor an income, dependant on him NOT living in Britain

    ETA: Suzanne got here first :-) at #146

  176. 176.

    Gretchen

    @Gloria DryGarden: That’s one thing that Michael Wolfe says about spending time with Trump: that he wakes up talking and yaks continuously all day long until he falls asleep at night. Nonstop yakking and look at me.

  178. 178.

    robtrim

    @Archon: Good question. But it wasn’t just Trump. Epstein and Maxwell were pimping for god knows how many wealthy white guys. I want their names too.

  180. 180.

    Archon

    Is there a possibility that the Epstein file revelations actually destroy the Trump Presidency and fracture the Republican party?

    I would have said no chance a week ago, but now?

  181. 181.

    Scout211

    Reposted:

    It’s done.

    Discharge petition to force House vote on Epstein files succeeds with Grijalva’s signature

    Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-Ariz.) became the 218th and final signature on the discharge petition shortly after she was sworn in Wednesday. She joined all other Democrats and four Republicans: Reps. Thomas Massie (Ky.), Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), Lauren Boebert (Colo.) and Nancy Mace (S.C.).

    . . .

    Trump and administration officials reached out to Boebert and Mace in the hours ahead of Grijalva signing the petition Wednesday, as either one of them removing their names would have prevented the effort from succeeding. CNN reported that Attorney General Pam Bondi, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche and FBI Director Kash Patel planned to meet with Boebert on Wednesday. Trump called Mace early Wednesday, but the two had not connected as of early afternoon, a source told The Hill.

    Both representatives kept their names on the petition.

  182. 182.

    Citizen Alan

    @Tony Jay:  Honestly, at what point should we start speculating about whether prominent journalists, editors, and owners of news outlets are on the Epstein list somewhere? Someone should ask the current nepo-baby Sulzberger running the FTFNYT whether he visited Epstein’s island to get “massages” from some 14-yo girl.

  184. 184.

    Citizen Alan

    @Shalimar:  I’ve never heard that. We all know that he had a mistress (ironically named Jennifer) because it became common knowledge at the same time as Clinton’s Gennifer Flowers scandal.

    (The thing that enrages me about Bill Clinton still after all these years is not that he was a womanizing horn-dog. It’s that he couldn’t bring himself to knock it off for 8 years as President, when the GOP had already shown their willingness to drag him through the mud over past sexual exploits. The country would be in such a better place today if Bill had just had the fortitude to take lots of cold showers and jerk off in the privacy of the Lincoln Bathroom instead of angling for blowjobs in the Oval Office.)

  186. 186.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Archon: There’s not going to be any dramatic rupture. It’s already a drag on opinion, though, and it will just get stronger. Everything is a game of inches.

  188. 188.

    Miss Bianca

    @Shalimar: My God, am I going to be forced to say something good about my former Representative?

    Well, all righty then, I don’t begrudge her this one. So I say, GOOD!

  189. 189.

    ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Have we ever had this level of political stupidity and idiotic lack of thought, at our highest national political level? I’m over 3/4 of a century old and can’t recall it ever being this bad. It’s not just shitforbrains actions and words, it’s all those he’s hung out with, his entire adult life.

  190. 190.

    Miss Bianca

    @Scout211: OH HEY!

    See, those feckless Democratic Senators we hate were good for something after all!//

    Cuz I don’t think the House would have come back into session until the New Year without that Senate vote.

  192. 192.

    Matt McIrvin

    @ruckus: I can’t remember anything like it. Nixon was possibly as malign but also much, much smarter in the pursuit of self-interest, with less of a sense that he could just openly do anything and get away with it.

    But some of this is the culmination of things that have been building for a long time. I think a lot of American movement conservatives, the guys who were in the College Republicans and the Young Americans for Freedom back then, wanted some kind of autocratic rule like this at least as far back as the 1980s; they just hadn’t eroded mainstream political norms severely enough to get it. Reagan could be as checked-out as Trump but he had to pretend he was a constitutional leader.

  193. 193.

    Geminid

    @JoyceH: I posted this piece by financial writer Pesach Lattin a couple months ago, but it’s relevant to your question so I will post it again:

       Eveyone keeps obsessing about Epstein’s “little black book.” Wrong book.

    Epstein wasn’t just some creep living on an island. He was a limited partner at Bear Stearns, plugged into the high risk junk bonds machine, then later running offshore entities like Liquid Funding Limited– co-owned by Bear– that greased the CDO casino before 2008 blew up.

    Now here’s the kicker: Bear Stearns also bankrolled Trump.

    Those Atlantic City casinos that “magically” went bankrupt but left Trump standing? That was Bear Stearns underwriting $675 million in junk bonds for the Taj Mahal and more. Epstein’s firm and Bear were part of the same pipeline propping up the house of cards.

    So when you connect the dots: Epstein wasn’t just Epstein. He was part of the Wall Street artery that helped fund Trump’s fraudulent bankruptcies, the very ones he bragged about as “smart business.”

    They want you to think that Epstein and Trump were separate scandals. Theyre not. They’re chapters in the same playbook of reckless finance, junk bonds and disappering accountability.

    Follow the money. Always.

    When Mr. Lattin posted this on Twitter, one of the people replying said that the operations he described were a means for the Russian mob to launder money.

    When I read that I thought, “Welp, if that’s true, I guess we know who had the means and motive to kill Epstein in that Manhattan jail.”

     

    @Geminid:

  194. 194.

    Armadillo

    I called all of my congresspeople (they are all R’s) and left messages asking them to support the release of the Epstein files. And sent them this email:

    I am writing to urge Senator Moody to work and vote for the release of the complete Epstein Files. Other Republicans (Rand Paul, Josh Hawley, Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene) have voted for the release of the files and I hope that Senator Moody will join them. I would like to understand Senator Moody’s official position on this important issue, and urge her to make a public statement on the topic as well.

  195. 195.

    currawong

    I absolutely don’t care if Democrats are involved. Of course there will be some. Every single man that preyed upon these children should be in prison.

  196. 196.

    JaneE

    I would be surprised if some Democrats were not involved.  Epstein was too ubiquitous and too something to have restricted his “friends” to one political party.  That is not good business.  I would not even be surprised if some Democrats who were friends with Epstein talk loudly about morality and how gays/trans are abominations to God.  That type of hypocrisy is to be expected.

    Does it matter to me?  No.  But Democrats are playing dictator and pretending to eliminate “the worst of the worst”.  Wouldn’t pedophiles or child sex traffickers fall into those categories?

  197. 197.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @JaneE: ​
     

    But Democrats are playing dictator and pretending to eliminate “the worst of the worst”.

    What do you mean by this?

  198. 198.

    pluky

    @stinger: Not even a Prince anymore. Letters patent were issued to completely rusticate him, thus the surname change to Montbatten-Windsor of a commoner cadet to the noble house.

  201. 201.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Geminid: mmmhm. That money laundering angle has been bubbling around at the edges for awhile. I’ve been waiting for it to break through.

    And I had the same thought about who had means and motive

    p.s. Isnt that what Ron Wyden has been digging through? All the money transfers?

  204. 204.

    Scout211

    @2liberal: if you are referring the blogger , please provide a link.

    Gloria is referring to the morning thread yesterday that reached a “TBogg unit,” which is 500 comments in a thread.

  210. 210.

    Paul in KY

    @geg6: Kids still with ‘princess’ titles. He is still technically Duke of York till Parliament passes a bill resuming it to the crown. He has lost his HRH title and all honorary military titles. Has been removed from Order of the Garter, etc.

  213. 213.

    Paul in KY

    @stinger: His title as ‘Prince’ and the HRH has been removed. The King/Queen does not need Parliament to do that. Removal of a Duke from their Duchy (probably applies to Earls and Barons too) technically requires a bill to pass thru Parliament, as those titles were officially conferred thru a Parliament bill.

    Back in Middle Ages and some time after, the sovereign could do that by themselves (to any ‘Royal’ title. A ‘Royal’ title being one controlled by the monarch and dispensed at his/her pleasure. The Duchy of Cornwall being a classic example. A ‘non-Royal’ or ‘hereditary’ title not directly associated with the crown has to be dealt with differently. The Duchy of Norfolk is a classic example of a ‘hereditary’ title).

  216. 216.

    Paul in KY

    @Kayla Rudbek: It wouldn’t surprise me. Maybe something horrible like draining all blood from captives and drinking it as tonic or something else that would cause even a ‘Trump-No-Matter-What’ nut to go iccckkkk.

Comments are closed.