I just saw the talking heads on Hardball state that one reason Hillary is staying in until the end is “in case something big happens to derail Obama.”
I simply do not understand this logic at all. If Hillary drops out of the race, and something major is unearthed about Obama that would derail his candidacy (a videotape surfaces of him doing cocaine off the nipple of a teenage boy while Imams chant the Koran and organize a gun running organization for Hamas and Al Qaeda), who the hell does she think the delegates are going to turn to- Edwards?
It is a simple no-brainer that “if something happened,” Hillary would be the party candidate. She doesn’t need to be in the race to get the nod in that situation.
Not saying she should get out, just saying that is a particularly silly argument.
*** Update ***
Good point from the comments:
uhmm…this is the “talking heads” that are saying this shit. Not Clinton’s camp or even one of her swiney surrogates. Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about. Even if she’s just a big fat loser. Please quit giving the media fodder to feed on.
Zifnab
At the moment, I think Hillary is just playing every quarter she’s got left in the great American slot machine. Maybe Obama catches a bad case of the “hit by a bus”. Maybe everyone in Oregon sneezes at once and they all accidentally pull the lever for Hillary. Maybe Obama’s magic pony-powered mind-control ray finally breaks down and all the Super Delegates come back to their senses.
If Hillary stays in, she can turn on a dime and capitalize on Obama’s falter. If she leaves, Obama could replace the batteries in his Obamarama beam and be back on course to the nomination before Hillary can leap in to save the day.
Also, you haven’t actually lost until you admit defeat. Hillary can take this thing all the way to November if necessary.
vwcat
It’s an excuse. Hillary is pretending that she is needed just in case. right.
If the media buys it it just shows they are still clueless.
Afterall, they have combed through everything and if something was going to be found it would have already.
But, after the polls close tomorrow look for the bubble heads to begin their never ending ginning up of the race and questioning if Obama is strong enough.
Nevermind he did not campaign there.
sigh. Too bad we cannot have a media like the blogs where you get the real scoop and not created drama
Conservatively Liberal
Agreed John. I heard Tweety and the Talking Heads singing “I’ll Be There For You”, and my thought was ‘WTF?! Hillary is second, so who the hell are they going to ask to step in? Gore?!’.
Hmmm, maybe I am on to something… ;)
Dennis - SGMM
The Clintons will resort to floor fights, lawsuits, threats, and every other tactic that they can think of because it’s her turn, dammit! H.M.S. Pantsuit will sail on to the convention.
nightjar
I agree she knows she’s a shooin for second fiddle. I think she’s hanging in with this “Fightin’ woman” schtick to keep the sisterhood (and some menfolk) in maximum fawn and outrage for later on , say 2012 or 16. Although, the most rabid ones are few in number, they are much more fervent than the most dedicated Obama supporter, imo. And I think she likes the stage and adulation and wants to keep it going as long as possible.
Ninerdave
It’s called suspending your campaign Hillary.
shirt
I’m not sure where i read it but Obama would not like to lose uncontested in West virginia and Kentucky.
But how about tweety’s othedr amazing point, Chuck Hagel as Veep!?
Right… Isn’t that like painting a bullseye on Barak’s back?
Keith
It’s that Old Politics vs. New Politics dynamic: the punditry class cannot fathom that the “perfect candidate” (not that Obama’s perfect, but he is not a cynic’s candidate) is not hiding the proverbial dead girl/live boy somewhere all the way until the first Monday of November.
Notorious P.A.T.
Maybe it’s just me, but after watching the past few months I get a little nervous when I hear the Hillary campaign say “just in case something bad happens to Obama”.
Like, say, Richard M Scaife accusing him in print of being a gay terrorist (not that Scaife would ever help Hillary, his mortal enemy, who could never forgive him for all the terrible things he said about her).
Just Some Fuckhead
Could Ryan Lizza have found a gheyer pair of glasses?
crystal dawn
uhmm…this is the “talking heads” that are saying this shit. Not Clinton’s camp or even one of her swiney surrogates. Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about. Even if she’s just a big fat loser. Please quit giving the media fodder to feed on.
maxbaer (not the original)
So, she’s using Bush’s Iraq strategery?
Punchy
Makes ya kinda think that they know something we dont?
Just Some Fuckhead
No, it just means they’re a pack of racists who feel the black candidate must meet a higher thresshold of viability than simply winning the pledged delegate count that would normally suffice for a white candidate.
wingnuts to iraq
John,
If you wanna chuckle at Hillary’s expense check out this snarkfest “How Obama Blew It”
my favorite part:
the win is strong in that post
p.lukasiak
nothing “big” has to happen… Obama can just keep tanking in his matchups against McCain, and by August the party will be begging her to run.
But in order to win in November, she has to maintain at least a framework of an organization — she can’t just ‘show up’ and beat McCain — especially since dumping Obama will be portrayed by the media as a “desperation” move.
Also, keep in mind that her campaign is in debt — but she has a whole pile of cash available for the GE. From what I understand, that money can’t be “spent” until after the convention…but it may well be that FEC rules make it possible for her to retire that debt using GE funds if she doesn’t concede the race.
SamFromUtah
it just means they’re a pack of racists who feel the black candidate must meet a higher thresshold of viability than simply winning the pledged delegate count that would normally suffice for a white candidate.
I don’t think so; I’m guessing they’d be every bit as whiny and annoying about a white competitor beating them, but they’d find different reasons for it.
Just Some Fuckhead
It helps if you ignore HRC’s clear racial appeals.
nightjar
Absolutely agree. And I’ve not called for her to drop out and believe the more excitement generated in individual states in the primary is good for the dems in the GE. The problem is, as has been quoted by thousands, her campaign tactics of dragging Obama thru the gutter and triangulating with wingnuts. Not to mention slamming the dnc and Obama for actually following the rules she has previously agreed on.
nightjar
Now your starting to spoof yourself pluk. But then we can always use a good laugh around here.
Mary
Clinton rehearses (YouTube).
Andrei
Way to be a trendsetter there Cole.
You even beat HotAir at their own game!
And now if anything, you can always say you were first with that story ages ago in case someone decides to Google it while doing oppo.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
When you’re wishing for ponies like a victory-obsessed warblogger, perhaps its time to re-assess your candidate’s chances.
Dennis - SGMM
Just as we’re all begging for more insights from pluk.
BethanyAnne
Dear P. Luk,
In what way is this tanking?
Thanks in advance,
Bethany
MDee
Tweety masochists. Why not just attach jumper cables from the car to your ears and rev up the engine? The experience would probably be more illuminating than watching Tweety.
Less painful, too.
Soylent Green
The talking heads have their primarymobile all gassed up and ready for a another run down the tarmac. They don’t want to acknowledge that this contest is over because then they would have to get off their keisters and do some actual footwork on McCain. Why research a new story when you can phone it in endlessly retelling the old one?
Oh please Senator Hillary we are so sorry. Can you ever forgive us? How blind and stupid we were. Why didn’t we realize that he would turn out to be a pedophile/communist revolutionary/serial murderer/space alien/black guy? We turn to you in our hour of need. Have pity on us poor fools for ever doubting you. And after you become president, please give Paul Lukasiak a position in your administration. God knows he deserves it. How about ambassador to the Republic of Elbonia?
t jasper parnell
Of topic, however,
Honest Abe on how to deal with guilt by association.
His Grace
It’s possible that she’s still in the race for egos sake, but not crazy egos sake. Obama has beat her de facto by virtue of mathematics but not de jure. Quitting now, with less than a month to go, after placing such a strong second would be very humiliating. Especially since she was considered the de facto nominee 6 months ago and may well feel (as many of her supporters do) that she was robbed.
The Grand Panjandrum
Thats probably not enough to sink him, unless they took all those guns being run were taken from “real” Americans.
But crystal dawn, as your update notes, makes an excellent point. Recall, this is the establisment media just adding some “expertise” to the conversation. They love to sound very, very smart. I’m not sure these morons actually understand how the internet works, as they seem to say things so utterly stupid, and are generally refuted before they get off the air. By the time they appear again they’ve been torched and fairly well fact checked. The blogosphere is probably the largest neural network ever devised.
Dug Jay
A new ABC News poll says most Democrats say there’s no hurry for Hillary to drop out:
PeterJ
I wouldn’t try that, even if the FEC isn’t working properly right now.
It doesn’t matter if she concedes the race or not, what matters is if she gets nominated at the convention or not. If not then she will have to repay the money contributed for her GE run or get permission to use it for other things.
She could for example ask contributors that hasn’t given the full amount for the primary for permission to transfer any money they have given for the general election to her primary funds and then use it to repay her loans.
But I’m guessing a lot of those that gave her money, either wants it back or wants to give it to Obama rather than giving it to her so that she can repay her own loans.
John Cole
Jeralynn has finally lost her god damned mind for realz.
PaulB
Yes, actually it does. At least it does out here in the real world. You should join us here someday.
That presupposes that Obama is actually “tanking” against McCain, something that is manifestly untrue and wholly unsupported by the available data. Obama is basically in a dead heat with McCain, something that will change now that the primary is over and the focus is on the November election.
Tell us again how Obama is “tanking” in California while Clinton is “rising” there, won’t you? You never did acknowledge that you lied about that.
dr. bloor
An obtuseness worthy of Jake Tapper.
Jeralyn and Circus Tent Democrat are going to be pretty lonely over there after the freak show clears out.
PaulB
Good god, what an awful post that was. Does she even think about what she’s writing these days? Obama would make a good AG in a Clinton cabinet (in an earlier post)? Obama is throwing “us” under the bus? Pretending that it makes one iota of a difference as to whether the soldiers were drafted or volunteered with respect to Obama’s comment?
This is beyond pathetic.
PaulB
Yup, most people are fine with Clinton staying in the race until the final primary. What does this have to do with John’s point?
PaulB
John, you missed an even better post: BTD’s comment on that Jeralyn thread:
Um … no.
nightjar
from jeralynn
That damned elitist Obama. How dare he stand up for Vietnam Vets at the expense of good progressive BB voters. I’ve said it before, Jeralynn is a nice person that is somewhere left of Noam Chomsky.
Lyssophobe
Dude, I think she lost it a loooonnnggg time ago. And it really is sad. I admired Jeralyn for years, and TalkLeft was at the top of my blog bookmarks longer than any other. But the Hillary fanaticism is irrational on a Jonestown level over there. If someone, somewhere, happened to catch Obama buying Charmin tissue, she’d rearrange it into some sort of mortal insult to “real” democrats.
The constant harping about how Florida and Michigan should not only count, but count as voted, is what cemented it for me. I only check TalkLeft now in daily amazement that there is apparently no bottom.
PaulB
Some of the other comments in that thread are priceless, too:
And, in clueless irony, that same poster ended his comment with:
t jasper parnell
There are quite a few comments that suggest that the post is nuts. Perhaps a good sign?
PeterJ
Jeralyntown?
Davis X. Machina
This is America. Candidates get ‘derailed’ by something big all the time.
cleek
imagine life as an ‘illary supporter these days. it’s gotta be tough! can you really blame them for viciously attacking every little thing that comes their way, like rabid badgers ?
i think not
t jasper parnell
Although I will say that Jeralynn’s interpretation of Obama’s speech is just plain wrong.
El Doh
Sounds exhausting.
Just Some Fuckhead
I didn’t even understand her interpretation. I’m probably not stoopid enough.
PK
An idle question?
What happens if something happens to McCain? Its not too improbable. Who would replace him? Huckabee or Romney?
t jasper parnell
She takes this paragraph
And makes it the central theme of a speech concerning this:
And thus she transforms a long-form critique of Bush’s failures concerning the VA and McCain’s recent refusal to rectify that failure into a full-on assault on anti-War protesters. It is just plain wrong-headed and dishonest.
t jasper parnell
To quote someone else: His name is Ron Paul, son.
nightjar
She’s basically saying that Vietnam war protesters (also todays Baby Boomers) were correct or noble in blaming the soldiers for Vietnam and that somehow Obama was dissing them in his statement of support for VV and stating the error of blaming the troops for the war during that period. And hence suggesting that Obama might be more pro war than he says, sort of like a Republican. At least that’s my take on it.
t jasper parnell
This is not correct. The thrust of her argument is that the image of anti-War protesters spitting on returning soldiers and calling them, as Rambo lamented, baby killers is a myth or, in any event, wildly over reported. It is the case, so far as I have been able to discern, that these kinds of stories are less then reliable, so she is right there. On the other hand, the speech does not attempt to throw boomers under the bus, as she suggests. Rather, Obama seeks to recognize the myth’s power in an aside, in order to cast the current administration and McCain as unpatriotic because they will not fully fund the VA. It is of a piece with Obama’s earlier insistence that a flag-pin-wearing politician is not a patriot. His position is, to quote Elvis Costello, that actions speak louder now than words.
Bill W.
CNN on Sun:
“[T]he Clinton campaign’s search for damaging information and its hope that such information exists continues, according to knowledgeable sources.”
Gives new meaning to “in case something happens.”
cleek
so, she has created a strawman in the shape of Obama, accused it of badmouthing these mythical people who attacked returning soldiers, then sicced her attack dogs on it because those mythical people don’t really exist ?
i’m sure Hillary would be proud.
nightjar
As for the spitting, as far as I know there are no confirmed cases of that. As for the other stuff, I was there dude, a soldier during that period and experienced it for myself. It wasn’t everybody blaming soldiers for the war and accusing them of being “baby killers” but it was pervasive, especially those our own young age at the time.
from Jeralynn
The “us” are war protesters now baby boomers Obama was alluding to. Maybe he should have said not everyone was involved with mistreating the troops and maybe Jeralynn was not one who did. But it is unmistakable what she’s referring to.
It was more than some and Obama’s remarks are common opinions held by many politicians left and right and are nothing new.
As for the correlation with VA funding and Mccain, I’m not sure where that was in the article.
t jasper parnell
Yes, this is correct. The approach is wrong-headed because it undermines any legitimate criticism Jeralynn may or might chose to make of Obama and dishonest because she has to transform Obama’s speech into something it was not.
As to Hilary being proud. Let us not transform the failures of a candidate’s supporters into a candidate’s failures.
You know my mom went back to university in 1968 and faced a bunch of crap getting a job, indeed, my mom faced a bunch of crap getting back into university in the first place, and at least one of my sisters, actually both, faced the crap of gender-based family employment realities. Both, in other words, took “time off” to raise the kiddies and each now has to work ten years longer than their husbands. Women have a legitimate complaint about gender bias. And much of the media, for example Chris Matthews, are members of the he man women haters club (see Spanky and Our Gang). Hillary Clinton has been screwed by this tendency.
On the other hand, the response of her supporters has been less than up lifting.
t jasper parnell
Nightjar,
You might reread my post in which I agree with all you say.
It may not be in the article but Obama said:
And then pointed out that
So, it would seem, that he accuses McCain of talking the talk but not walking the walk.
nightjar
Ok jasper, my bad then, this is what happens when attempting to analyze the average HIlbot frame of mind. Personally, I’m going try to not try from now on.
t jasper parnell
I am neither a Hilbot nor an Obamaniac. Obama’s point is clear and the errors of J’s interpretation are equally so. I would hope that my exegesis of both Obama and J rests on what they said and not what I wish that they had said. He castigates the current administration because it refuses to fully fund the VA, J misreads this as an attack on anti-War protesters. This seems to me to beyond dispute.
TalkLeft is filled, it seems to me, with nonsensical claims about what Obama said. However, I understand that women and some feminists are sickened by the crap from a variety of commentators Consequently, I would argue that the pro-Hilary camp fall into errors of judgment based on the misogyny that always already circulates in American political discourse, ditto Obama and racism.
Nontheless and speaking for myself only, I support Obama; however, I understand without supporting those who support Hillary.
nightjar
This is true. My complaint with HC supporters at this point is what I see as Purposeful and even corrupt notions on the primary process and following the rules everyone agreed to, even if they may be in need of modification after the primary. And trying to smear Obama because he follows the rules and has fashioned his campaign successfully within them. This is why Hillary is behind. She ran a coronation campaign to end on supertuesday and disregarded caucus strategy altogether. When it didn’t happen as planned the HC camp set off on a scorched earth path to make up for their disarray which has brought us to the sorry state of affairs we’re in. She didn’t lose because of inherent sexism, no more than Obama is winning despite inherent racism. He just ran a smart intuitive state to state campaign and that’s why he won. She didn’t.
Chuck Butcher
Regarding Hillary staying in the race, assume for a moment that she has some honor; her supporters have contributed heavily, worked for the campaign, voted for her, etc, etc, etc, so maybe they deserve to have their campaign played out. I don’t like Hillary, I like voters, this has been close and it should be played out.
For sake of accuracy, this thing is over with a vote at the Convention, until then it is probablys or there’s enoughs or… There should be a point in early June when it is known how it will play out barring disasters.
Brachiator
Nonsense. Nobody is suggesting that Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee re-enter the GOP contest just so that they can stagger across the finish line.
Senator Clinton has lost the contest by every way that the party has defined success. The only reason that she is persisting is so that she can use the magnitude of her projected win in WV to push the idea that the Democratic Party rules (which she previously signed off on) should be revised so that she can be declared the winner.
Meanwhile, Senator Clinton and her surrogates are hard at work pushing the idea that everyone should be kind to her, and that any critique of the Clinton campaign is “kicking her while she is down.”
But keep in mind that the same Senator Clinton who is now claiming that the media and Obama supporters are hurting her feelings is the same Senator Clinton who claims that only she is tough enough to fend off attacks by the GOP, and who sneers at any complaints about unfairness by Obama supporters because, after all, politics is supposed to be bare knuckle.
Look for Clinton to work the media hard after these next primaries, complete with dirty tricks and smarmy attacks.
The only antidote is to knock her off her game by emphasizing that she has already lost and is only making herself look bad by overstaying her welcome, particularly when she and her husband should be out there supporting Obama’s campaign.
cleek
i think she already exhibits these same failures.
grandpajohn
And if the media and pundits were to actually research his record of talk versus votes and flip flops they would find that it is a a perfectly valid accusation . McSames entire history in office has been one of all talk no walk, straight shooter indeed, except he shoots blanks
1jpb
Was this the Hardball when Hagel was discussed as a VP for BHO, as was noted at dKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/12/174641/716
In theory, it seems like Obama/Hagel would be hard to stop in November. Of course I do realize that there are issues, not the least of which would be Hagel’s desire (or lack there of) to participate in a way that makes Ds comfortable with his R background.
Ken
Crystal Dawn, John still reads Andrew Sullivan, so give him a break if he has trouble figuring out the who is really saying what. John has been making alot of progress these past 18 months, so cut him some slack.
Ken
JC
This is why I come here – no bullshit straight talk, delivered with a comic flair, as I spew my Coke on my monitor, from laughing my a** off.