Dr. Helen fields a question from a concerned reader:
Dr. Helen:
I’m a middle/high school teacher, of a social-libertarian, economic-conservative bent. All the talk about indoctrination of kids is extraordinarily true. I have kids pass through my class with some of the most insane, Kos-style concepts running through their heads, really doctrinaire hard-liberal stuff. It only got more blatant as the election wore on (and on, and on). I subbed for a fourth grade class in which a girl trotted out the “Bush caused 9/11″ bit. Are you kidding me?
What can I do to help counter this? I’d like to avoid a whole new generation running on Marxist ideology.
Faced with the imminent danger of the Obammunist uprising, I can understand the concern parents might have regarding Marxist indoctrination. This is especially true given the events of the past few months. If your true concern is an entire generation running on Marxist ideology, after the Bush era 700 billion dollar bailouts (and we shouldn’t overlook the several trillions in loans) of the Wizards of Wall Street, my advice to you is to not let your kid grow up to be a Republican stock broker.
I am always happy to help folks out with these troubling questions.
Genine
You’re a giver, John.
r€nato
I suggest the teacher turn on Fox News Channel or Rush Limbaugh and hand out copies of the Bible (King James Version, the way God wrote it).
That’s all our children need to learn in the
madrassahschools.bud
Doctrinaire, hard-liberal, kos-style bush caused 911? Kos banned all the conspiracy theorists. Plus, you’re not gonna find a finer bunch of conspiracy minded lunk-heads as ron paul followers.
Keith
That reminds me of a pre-election conversation I had with a friend of mine who happens to be a broker, where he was telling me that an Obama administration would cause a depression, etc. My response (well, one of them) was "as a broker, what kind of credibility do you have with regards to economic matters at this point? My 3 hours of undergrad macroeconomics makes me more credible, frankly."
r€nato
Every time one of these wrong-wingtards starts ranting about the hard left, I feel like ponying up to buy them a ticket to any country in Europe, where I could introduce them to some TRUE hard-leftists.
You know, that place where it’s quite acceptable to talk about waging class warfare on the rich and imposing confiscatory taxes on them and guaranteeing a minimum income for everybody and granting lavish social welfare benefits to undocumented immigrants.
A place where unions strike regularly and are strong enough to block mergers and shut down cities and entire industries if they wish.
The American left is pretty weak tea compared to that.
DougJ
You know, I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all, but I do think that saying "Bush caused 9/11" isn’t all that crazy. I don’t believe that he deliberately caused it, mind you, but it sure does look like his administration had little or no interest in counterterrorism. They fucking demoted Richard Clarke.
It’s not unreasonable to think 9/11 might not have happened under a different president.
r€nato
…and, on the other hand, the American right is so far to the right by European standards that in Europe they would be considered flat-out kooks and fascists and they would not be accepted in polite company.
Zifnab
Dear Helen,
I am a middle-aged woman with deep conservative values who has always found your articles poignant, insightful, and incredibly good looking.
Recently, I have noticed that people younger, poorer, or in some way inferior to myself are expressing opinions that I expressly disagree with or stating facts that I believe are categorically untrue. As this can only be the result of brainwashing by an organization which we both detest, I was writing to you in hopes that you could tell me how to re-brainwash these feeble minded and inferior individuals into believing what I want them to believe instead.
What can I do to swap out their Obama-flavored kool-aid with a flavor of kool-aid that better reflects good traditional American family values? Also, is there any technique you know of to better suppress or drown out the opinions of those heretics that cannot be swayed?
The communist invasion is coming. Please respond with all due haste.
Sincerely,
Stereo-typical Conservative American
P.S. Wolverines.
Mike E
Does this person teach shop (nothing wrong with this discipline BTW) ’cause he sounds like my 7-fingered woodshop teacher in jr high
Jeff
FTW
r€nato
zifnab FTW
Zifnab
Depends on which Bush you’re talking about. Certainly, when Bush Sr was heading up the CIA under Ford, he had a hand in dealing with Afghanistanian rebels attempting to repulse the Soviet invasion. And Reagen / Bush had extensive dealings with Iran and Iraq – not to mention Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt, the UAE, Qatar, and the rest of the Arab nations – on multiple levels. No reason to believe they’d leave the Afghanies out.
The idea that Republican initiatives directly or indirectly helped fund the organizations that eventually perpetuated the 9/11 attacks isn’t outside the realm of speculation at all.
r€nato
and flouride!
David
Ah, one of the many illustrious Pajamas Media stars. I’m glad you are responding to this stuff.
I’m sure that the prevention of a generation of Obamafascists will help Dr. Helen "Turn the tide of Radical Feminism" and promote men’s rights with Glenn Sacks. Conservatism 2.0 at its sorry best.
More like Conservatism -0.5.
Next thing you know, they will be searching for lesbians in the girls’ middle school bathrooms in SE Oklahoma. Ooops! They already did that.
Athenae
Would it have been like committing murder to, oh, I don’t know, TEACH the kid? Ask her to back up that assertion with facts? Demonstrate through actual knowledge and argument that it was bullshit, instead of just whining to somebody on the Internet about how she’s a little Marxist? I mean, kids believe all kinds of wacky shit. It used to be the job of adults to help them sort out the world, not just dismiss them as stupid and hopeless.
A.
TR
For starters, this supposed teacher might want to investigate what Marxism is. I’m pretty sure "Bush caused 9/11" isn’t part of the dogma.
El Cid
How dare the young’uns speak when they ain’t spoken to?
MattF
… and don’t forget that if those youthful liberal fascists aren’t persuaded by the force of overwhelmingly true reason and logic, there’s always, um, ‘physical’ persuasion.
r€nato
Athenae, clearly you believe that children should be taught to use such French skills like, ‘logic’ and ‘rational thought’.
That just leads one dangerously down the slippery slope to ‘free thinking’, which as we all know is identical to un-American ideas like Satan worship, legalized abortion, contraception, and world peace.
Like I said above, the answer is to turn on the Fox News Channel and Rush Limbaugh, and hand the kids copies of the Bible (KJV, just like God wrote it down).
nitpicker
Note that that the writer claims to be a teacher, but appears to be a substitute. The difference is a huge one. It’s like claiming to be a parent when you’re only a babysitter.
r€nato
I thought being a substitute teacher WAS like being a babysitter, essentially.
Evinfuilt
@TR:
Yes it is, its on page 28 of the Illustrated Guide to Marxism, from Fox News Press.
Jeff
Dr. Helen:
I’m a parent of a young child. All the talk about indoctrination of kids is extraordinarily true. My son has friends with some of the most insane concepts running through their heads, really doctrinaire bible thumping stuff. It has only got more blatant as the holiday season wore on (and on, and on). One girl even trotted out the "there is a Santa Clause″ bit. Are you kidding me?
What can I do to help counter this? I’d like to avoid a whole new generation built up on lies their parents told them.
/sarcasm
ksmiami
Because hard core fundie creationism plus extreme tax cuts and free market ideology has worked out soooo well for us lately…
Reverend Dennis
Well, that’s still cheaper than running on imported oil.
Zifnab
@ksmiami:
Conservatism can’t fail, it can only be failed. Everything would have worked out fine if we’d rid ourselves of Social Security and Medicare back in ’05, then let Freddie and Fannie collapse as god intended rather than turning them into hand-out-mobiles for the undeserving.
We wouldn’t we looking at this massive recession if we hadn’t instituted those bailouts. And we wouldn’t have these massive budget deficits if we’d only cut more taxes.
Comrade Kevin
Who the hell is this "Dr. Helen" person? Is she related to Amy Alkon? I think we should be told.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@Athenae:
That world is gone, Athenae.
Last week, here in deepest darkest Red State, a man with a gun was seen near an elementary school. A lockdown was instituted, kids had to get under their desks, and the SWAT team was dispatched. Turns out it was a 15 year old kid……. skipping school……. hunting squirrels….. with a .22 rifle.
Did not one adult think of simply sticking their head out the door and asking "Hey kid! WTF you doing"?
Yeesh….
Walker
@Comrade Kevin:
No. She is related to Glen Reynolds, which is worse.
jrg
I have no doubt that when this loon gets fired for arguing with fourth graders over Bush and 9/11 instead of going over the lesson plan that was provided, it will be further evidence of the great Obammunist conspiracy.
srv
The good Senators from the south may want to rethink their positions now. Toyota has suspended construction of the new Prius factory. In Mississippi.
Alex Higgins
Dr. Helen:
I’m a middle/high school teacher, of a social-libertarian, economic-conservative bent. All the talk about indoctrination of kids is extraordinarily true. I have kids pass through my class and some of them have ideas that are very different from my own. I mean stuff that you and I would really disagree with.
It only got more blatant as the election wore on, when it seemed like half the class or maybe more had an opinion different to mine. I subbed for a fourth grade class in which a girl said something I thought was completely wrong. Are you kidding me?
What can I do to help counter this? I’d like to avoid a whole new generation having ideas that I cannot myself be bothered to understand properly or argue against on substantive grounds.
Yours in total agreement with everything you say.
Zam
What 4th grade class covers topics that would allow for "bush caused 9/11" to come up?
Punchy
I’m very curious to see how Bush himself deals with the enormity of the calamity he brought forth, once he’s finally and permenantly removed from his Admin Bubble. I really think he’s largely unaware and ignorant to the actual plight of the common folk, due to the insular nature of his handlers.
One day he may finally realize just what a fucking economic and social catastrophe he commenced…
scarshapedstar
Yeah, I remember when Marx opined that Bush caused 9/11.
Reverend Dennis
Well, if you’re losing debates to fourth graders then fifth graders will easily kick your ass and sixth graders will leave you for dead. My advice is to buy a cheap handgun and use it on your self.
jake 4 that 1
I’m reminded of the time Dan Savage outlined the tells of a fake letter. This one scores 8 out of 10.
Jeff
@jake 4 that 1: i.e. what is a middle/high school teacher doing subbing for a fourth grade class?
cleek
Dear Scott,
Take a look in the mirror. Do you see a dittohead doctrinaire wingnut? You should. But don’t be scared, it’s no big deal.
Now, close your eyes, take a deep breath, let it out slowly, and repeat to yourself: "It’s OK if people don’t think like me," 50 times.
ThymeZone
Bush caused 911 is a conspirowacko theory, which has its roots in extreme paranoid wingnuttery, along with Chemtrails, The Pentagon was Hit by a Missile Not a Plane, the Government Set the Waco Fire, and TWA 800 was shot down by the US Navy.
Entire Usenet careers were built on these theories.
ThymeZone
You are going to see more and more of this kind of story. Honda has already suspended their racing program, production cuts are going to follow soon if retail credit doesn’t loosen up. The Big Japanese Three are suffering the same sales collapse as the American Big Three, for the same reason: People can’t, or won’t, but cars right now. The entire auto segment depends on cars being sold, not made. While GM and Chrysler have bigger cash problems, all six of the big carmakers in the US are going to go down the tubes, along with their supply chains and dealer chains, unless car sales pick up quickly. The bridge loan is just the tip of a very big iceberg.
Whether the GOP blames Honda and Toyota production cutbacks on union workers remains to be seen.
John S.
I think it is worth pointing out that:
Bush caused 9/11 =/= Bush did not prevent 9/11
Often, the banal nature of evil dictates that you do nothing rather than something. The end result may be similar, but the catalyst is entirely different.
J.D. Rhoades
I’m from North Carolina, have kids who are in school, and if this writer is a teacher in the NC public schools, I am Marie of fucking Roumania.
ThymeZone
Entirely correct to point out that Bush snoozed while Al Qaeda planned its attack, and at the same time show that it is lunatic theory to suggest that WTC 7 collapsed because the government blew it up.
MH
I wouldn’t wait for the other shoe to drop.
ThymeZone
Ah, another spoof comes out and tells the truth!
gnomedad
OT, Sully finds an April, 2004 quote from Jonah Goldberg about Abu Ghraib:
Unless, of course, they are George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld.
Comrade Kevin
@MH:
For him to realize such a thing, he would have to care about it, and I have seen no evidence that he cares about it at all.
John S.
C’mon TZ, this is an easy one… Of COURSE they will! It will go something like this:
The very existence of a labor force that gets paid more for doing the same work clearly undermines non-union workers. Therefore, all unions must be crushed so that pay parity* may be reinstated and morale restored.
Voila!
*Pay parity is not valid for minorities, Republicans or white collar workers.
Zifnab
And claims like this are brilliant cover to shield yourself against people who claim your water supply may contain harmful levels of industrial chemicals, the government handled Waco irresponsibly, TWA 800 was the direct result of chronic neglegence, and "No one could have predicted…" is a bullshit excuse.
The policies of Bush and his Republican cronies helped forge the modern political landscape. But the causes of 9/11 stretch back a good 30 years and are built on an enduring legacy of Republican-lead imperialism and corporate-sponsored military subjugation of key resource fields. If you want to note that Osama launched is attack because of military bases in Saudi Arabia that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest all staunchly defended, then yeah – you might say Bush’s crew caused 9/11.
gnomedad
@MH:
Fixed.
bago
@David: Wait, you mean you Stopped looking for lesbians in the locker room?
Reverend Dennis
Odd, innit, that these are the same people who bray that raising taxes on the wealthy equals Socialism.
Face
I heard some rumors that the Yankees are looking to sign that Iraqi shoe-chucker for a place in middle relief. Anyone who can throw such chin music that just falls off the table without tipping his pitch is worthy of a minor-league contract.
Reverend Dennis
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
My comment is awaiting moderation because I mentioned a form of government that begins with "Social" and the mod filter tripped because the middle part of that word is also a remedy for the boner-challenged. I keep forgetting.
annoying thread killah
Wouldn’t if be funny if The Undertaker owned a funeral home? If Triple X moonlighted as a pr0n star? If Hulk Hogan had green skin? Or gangrene? Or drove a Prius and recycled? Was Sargent Slaughter in the Army reserve?
ThymeZone
Man, you got that right. That was some serious brushback.
The guy is obviously the Don Drysdale of the Iraqi press. Sign him up!
MR Bill
Jesus, read the comments to Dr. Helen. Some kind soul actually points out that Ayn Rand is not a suitable author for subteens, but otherwise it’s a swamp of hating ‘hard left’ teachers unions and recommendations for Terry Goodkind and home schooling.
ET
Punchy – Bush is going to go back to Texas and … well not do much of anything. Heck he won’t even have brush to clear as they are moving to an upscale Dallas neighborhood. He won’t think anything (not that he ever did). I doubt he will ever admit to himself much less anyone else how royally he f**ked up. He has spent 8 years (and more) convincing himself that he is right and his decisions were sound and he will continue to do so.
Comrade javafascist
Maybe Dr. Helen’s teacher and Chris Muir could get together and create the definitive graphic novel version of Atlas Shrugged for the liberally indoctrinated children of America. I’m sure this would go over as well as Jack Chick tracts and Paglia’s "Palin’s a street rapper" with the tween/teen set. It’d be bitching!
Reverend Dennis
He knows that History will vilify him.
CT
Count me as less than impressed with Bush’s dodge of the shoes. Obama would have caught the shoe and in one smooth motion whipped it back into the dudes face, Jack Burton-style:
Reverend Dennis
@Comrade javafascist:
That is one of the most comprehensively damning posts I’ve ever read. Chris Muir: bwahahahaha!
I doff my hat.
Ripley
Once again, as always, I have to say that I believe Dr. MOP is making this entire "e-mail" up.
Why… why does she lie to America?
Zam
That email is probably from someone who heard from someone. As are most of these stories about our education system. I work with someone who believes 8 year old sex is rampant in public schools.
Mrs. Peel
Good lord, if the kids played this "game" and understood it, Fox Noise and the Repug party would go the dusty way of the Whigs. I heartily recommend a game like this in every class room.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Reverend Dennis
Fixed.
And we now have the real story behind the guy who threw his shoes at Bush.
Ben
How do you get from "Bush caused 9/11" to "Marxist ideology," anyway? What does the former have to do with the latter?
cleek
it’s what happens when you have a lot of insane Limbaugh-style concepts running through your head. you know, really doctrinaire hard-right stuff.
r€nato
SHUT UP!
Next you’re going to tell me that those letters to Penthouse Forum and Dear Abby are fake too!
bootlegger
It doesn’t. Get it?
bootlegger
Dear Abby fer sure, but Penthouse, no way man! In fact something happened to me the other day, nobody will believe this is true but it really did happen. There was this girl on the bus you see….
Juan del Llano
Actually, what that teacher reports about her students is the best news I’ve heard in quite a while.
jake 4 that 1
@Jeff: Yeah, what’s up with that? If Concerned Teacher was subbing for another class (I assume in another school) who was teaching her class?
Mike G
How do you get from "Bush caused 9/11" to "Marxist ideology," anyway? What does the former have to do with the latter?
‘Marxist’ and ‘socialist’, like ‘ultra-left’ and ‘terrorist’ are terms that rightards hurl at anyone or anything they don’t like, without bothering to understand what they mean.
Medicine Man
Fred Reed’s latest column makes a pretty nice companion to this post: http://www.fredoneverything.net/Conservatives.shtml
I do enjoy reading that old curmudgeon.
Ella in NM
Poor lady. She just needs reassurance and some stories that will help her see the big picture out there– that these kids she is hearing don’t represent the experience of most of America’s school children.
Perhaps she could come to my children’s middle school, where 8th grade English teachers seem to think it’s ok to declare loudly to the entire class that there was no way they would vote for Obama because "he’s a Muslim", or where a gang of other people’s lovely, devoted Capitalist children chased my 13 year-old daughter across the football field screaming "Baby-killer" in response to her wearing an Obama ’08 button on her back pack.
Really, the future of America is in safe hands, Ms. "middle/high school teacher, of a social-libertarian, economic-conservative bent".
Kanamit
The only political propaganda I remember from school was my sixth grade teacher arrogantly chastising me for pointing out that Iraq had no WMD, and implying that the war would last, oh, about three days. Then some kid’s dad who was a Marine came by to tell us that there would be absolutely harm done to innocent Iraqis and that nobody except the bad guys would die. Even then I realized that was a total lie. Growing up in a military city during the 2001-2005 period was awful.
Tonal Crow
GOP strategy:
1. Accuse Democrats of being far-left America haters;
2. Democrats accept GOP’s characterization; fail to stand up for principles, and move right;
3. Goto step 1
J.D. Rhoades
Or my kids’ high school where the redneck boys are openly gloating that Obama will be assassinated at the inauguration, and a cheerleader was openly sobbing the day after the election because, and I quote, "this is the end of America."
This is why I’m convinced the letter’s yet another wingnut fantasy.
Ella in NM
@Reverend Dennis:
Now YOU sound like you are actually a full-time teacher!
Woodrowfan
Certainly, when Bush Sr was heading up the CIA under Ford, he had a hand in dealing with Afghanistanian rebels attempting to repulse the Soviet invasion.
Bush was DCI from 1976-1977 (not quite a full year). The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan began in August 1978. The coup that sparked Soviet intervention was in April 1978, both well past the Ford administration.
J. Michael Neal
Quite right. Stock brokers, along with bond salesmen, are the scum on the pond of the financial world. Manly men and women actually trade, and take positions and risk.
Smart manly men and women were also paying enough attention to go short 18 months ago.
JMN, former options market maker
Woodrowfan
or my cousin’s kid’s HS in Ohio where he was called "N**** Lover" for putting an Obama button on his backpack
SadieSue
@Zam:
This was the first thing I thought of, too – exactly how did this subject come up in a fourth grade class all these years later?!
Zifnab
@Woodrowfan:
Well then… clearly I fail at history.
Calouste
@Reverend Dennis:
I can ideed not think of anything more sociallist than the government setting wages for the private sector. Anything beyond that and you would be heading towards full blown communism.
MH
@gnomedad: Yes, that was the pun I was trying to make. Fission mailed, I guess…
Chuck Butcher
@Punchy:
Considering the neighborhood and the SS detail and the rest of the elements of being ex-President I’d be surprised if there was any reason for some kind of awaking. Then consider who he’s likely to hang with.
Will Danz
Dear Dr. Helen,
I’m married to a shiftless lout who pretends to be some sort of vague "libertarian," but is really nothing more than a GOP talking-points parrot.
This annoying asshole (my husband,) is such a lazy waste of space that all he can manage to do is links to lots of lunactic-rightwing crap and say "heh- indeedy."
Oh, and he’s obsessed with robot sex.
What can I do?
love,
Dr. Helen
Observer
Those of us down here in Texas never could understand why the rest of the country were so gung ho to elect him in the first place.
pharniel
@Ben: they’re all ‘bad’ things.
lovethebomb
There is a big red flag when anyone uses the phrase "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative." That is an attempt to dodge the bigot label and still vote republican. Only problem is there has never been a fiscally responsible republican administration. The "social left, fiscal right" position could never be applied to any republican, although quite a few democrats. Republicans need to use culture war social wedge issues to get the religious poor to vote for the interests of billionaires – so anyone who is socially liberal could not vote republican on those positions either. I’ve heard republican actors like Tom Selleck and Bruce Willis use this slippery description in order to stave off any accusations of bigotry, but it don’t work matey.
John S.
Well, the only thing more communist would be for the government to, like, actually seize the means of production.
Of course therein lies the irony of my faux-wingnut argument. To advocate for the government to step in and renegotiate wage contracts enacted between private parties to encourage some sort of industry pay parity would seem to be a decidedly un-Republican position. But then, the ends always justifies the means for the GOP, so it doesn’t matter if you utilize the tools of socialism or fascism as long as it achieves your goals – so eloquently laid out by Governor Schwarzenegger:
Also, I hope you aren’t insinuating that REAL pay parity is a socialist canard. Ensuring that all people receive equal work for equal pay within an organization regardless of race or gender is NOT socialism. Only a Republican would categorize Lily Ledbetter in those terms.
John S.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Although I cannot for the life of me fathom why.
Sarcastro
Wait, did she just recommend assigning a Harry Turtledove book as a cure for proto-marxist thought?
"Time-travelers bringing assault rifles to Confederates totally disproves the historical dialectic!"
Ahhhg! The stupid! It burns! The goggles they do nothing!
Common Sense
This is why I think the Government should buy them from the companies directly. Mandate that the federal government will use energy independent and efficient vehicles. Than take bids from domestic companies to build them. Provide them with an immediate influx to remodel factories and settle their books, and buy vehicles from them as they make them.
How much better would it be if the federal government purchased vehicles to remake the federal fleet rather than loaning Detroit money? If every federal vehicle were built to higher MPG and emissions standards? What if we were to commit to replacing every urban Post Office truck with an electric one, and accept a bid from Saturn or Chevy to build them? Or replace interstate diesel heavy transport vehicles with engines using natural gas (achieving energy independence for our federal fleet), then signed a deal with Dodge to make the engines for the trucks?
As I see it, it would be a nonregulatory way of bringing these companies into the 21st century and of saving their factories and the jobs associated with them. By remodeling these factories and already designing the engines/frames etc. to be used, these companies would have a lower start up cost to designing such cars for the general public, and would already be able to produce them when people and local governments/companies need to replace their current vehicles in a few years.
About the biggest obstacle I can see would be whether we actually need $15 billion worth of vehicles. It seems that even some would be better than none though.
Napoleon
@Common Sense:
The problem with your idea is the car companies need that money NOW. If their lines are not set up to produce exactly the type of vehicle the federal government needs right now that idea does not work.
comrade rawshark
Not a problem since we wouldn’t get anywhere near a 1 to 1 return.
I like the idea. The same concept crossed my mind but I hadn’t considered it as a bailout alternative. I thought of it as a someone needs to make the first frickin move if we’re going to move away from oil ever.
Cain
@Zifnab:
Fixed.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Napoleon: I think Common Sense addressed that with "Provide them with an immediate influx to remodel factories and settle their books, and buy vehicles from them as they make them."
I see how that might sound like it’s glossing over the problem, but I think it’s not a bad idea.
Common Sense
@Napoleon:
I’m not opposed to a large short term investment if there is a long term return. There would be the cost of redoing assembly lines, and the cost of paying those workers while their factories are redone, but there is the plus of a guaranteed work order for thousands if not millions of cars once they get back to work. The long term benefits would be a self sustaining auto industry that will be competitive from a design standpoint. To me it beats the alternative of loaning them money, then crossing your fingers that they will be smart about it this time.
Brian J
I’m not sure why the insane idea that Bush caused 9/11 is equivalent to Marxism, but nevertheless, I think it’s amusing that this teacher believes the cause of the way the kids think politically is the educational system, as opposed to their parents or some other force. Maybe my high school was different, but I don’t remember that many overtly political people, even in the many advanced classes I took.
The Other Steve
I really worry about make work programs. They need to be carefully followed.
Charity
I’m a leftie librul living in blue-state New Jersey, and even I don’t think Bush caused 9/11. Did they drop the ball security-wise? Oh yes. But that’s different than causing it.
kg
Of course working for the public shcools naturally makes you familiar with indoctrination.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Brian J: I’m not sure why the insane idea that Bush caused 9/11 is equivalent to Marxism…
I think it goes like this:
– The idea that Bush caused 9/11 puts Bush in a bad light.
– Putting Bush in a bad light is an affront to conservatism.
– Since liberalism = "not conservatism", any affront to conservatism must be liberal. (Hence every possible Democratic presidential nominee being "the most liberal Senator" and such).
– "Marxist" is the same as "Liberal".
– Therefore, the idea that Bush caused 9/11 is Marxist.
And I agree with Charity @ 104 that they did drop the ball and that’s different from causing the attack. I also think that even worse than that was the opportunistic ramming through of the Patriot Act and the Iraq War on the "coattails" of 9/11.
The Moar You Know
The letter is bullshit – secondary school (middle/high school) teachers are not allowed to work as or substitute as primary school teachers. They are two entirely different credentials.
Finally my teaching credential comes in handy!
The Moar You Know
@lovethebomb: Interesting. I’ve never run into anyone who described themselves as "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative" who wasn’t a Democrat.
I’ve never met a Republican that described themselves that way, but I can see how a total jackoff like Bruce Willis, who has a lot of money and seems to like to spend it on booze and hookers, would.
gnomedad
@MH:
Oops, my apologies for giving you insufficient credit for subtlety.
Zifnab
Yeah, visit any NE blue state and you’ll meet them in droves. Generally speaking, it translates to: "I’m not one of those fundie wackos who want to burn your books and staple gun shut your vajaja, but I do enjoy low taxes, wars on commies, and the most minimal government regulation possible."
When I think of Republicans, fiscally conservative and socially liberal is more or less what I was raised on. It was actually somewhat of a culture shock growing up in Texas with very socially liberal parents when I started realizing exactly what a fundie factory I was living in. The idea that people right next door won’t let their kids read Harry Potter because ZOMG! Witchcraft! still sends me for a loop.
[delurk]...[/delurk]
@Charity:
I live in lefty-liberal Western Washington and even I don’t think Bush "caused" (as in "planned") 9/11, mainly because I don’t think the Bush administration could "plan" their way out of a paper bag.
I do, however, firmly believe that they did a lot more than "drop the ball." I’m convinced that they got rumblings from intelligence agencies that something big was in the works, and they deliberately blocked investigation of it because they wanted some kind of terrorist attack to justify the attack on Iraq and to tear up the Bill of Rights.
I’m sure they were expecting something more like the 1993 WTC bombing and got a lot more than they bargained for: as witnessed by the gibbering fear with which Chimpy spent the entire day fleeing to progressively deeper holes in the ground all over the country to cower and soil himself in.
So yes, anybody who thinks the government blew up the WTC is a nut, but how big a nut does the foregoing make me?
El Cid
@[delurk]…[/delurk]: I agree. And I think it was on Bush Jr’s retreat that Cheney gave him the devil’s deal that he said would pull Bush Jr. out of looking like a failure who had allowed the biggest attack ever on U.S. soil — to come out hard and super-aggressive for a big war, a really big war, and the only one big enough in line was Iraq. And that was Cheney’s deal to try and ‘save’ Bush Jr’s a**.
Sparkletts Water Show
@Zifnab: I wrote this long post re: "I’ve never run into anyone who described themselves as "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative" who wasn’t a Democrat." but deleted it because I bored myself to tears in the long-winded composition. And then I read your response again and realized you’d probably just explained my friend to me. She’s a self-described "social liberal, fiscal conservative". She’s from MD. Pro-choice, tolerant, generous, not a bigot in any sense, has a lesbian sister with a longtime life partner, very well-educated, philanthropic, patron of the arts, etc. And she’s very wealthy.
How this kind, sane, compassionate woman can favor McCain over Obama (at least in the primaries…she might have voted D in the general. I don’t ask those things and stopped discussing it with her after our mutual war on Hillary was over) has perplexed me for a long time. I think you nailed it with low taxes and low government reg and intervention.
The cognitive dissonance I experience when I contrast what I know and experience first-hand of her with her Republican vote is too uncomfy, so I try not to dwell on it, because she’s so very kind to me, and most everyone else she meets. Not that some Repubs aren’t kind. I just don’t get why she votes that way, but I’ve always suspected it was due to me not fully getting her position and background.
And it really fucks with my head if I fixate on it.
Litlebritdifrnt
OMG there are so many points in this thread that I want to address that I could be here all night. However, what pisses me off the most is when those who believe they are in the know call most of Europe "socialist" like it is a bad thing. As you know I have family in England, so I know of what I speak. My sis and bro in law both work as the equivalent of nurses aides. Here in the US they are paid minimum wage, work about 32 hours a week (therefore no benefits) and are subject to dismissal for any reason. My sis and her DH work regular hours, have full benefits(including of course National Health Insurance) sick time, etc., get a full six weeks of paid vacation a year and on their salaries are able to take at least three vacations a year while paying all their bills, buying a house, running their cars, supporting their children and having money to throw around when they feel like it. My DH is a teacher, I am a paralegal, we struggle to keep up, despite my DH’s health insurance if he gets sick we are stuck with at least $2,500 of medical bills per year (deductibles and co-pays), which of course sits on our credit until we can whittle them down. If we can take a couple of days over Christmas to get away we think that is cool. My mother is retired and gets along quite happily on her government (social security) retirement, all her medical treatment is paid for and other than that her utilities etc are minimal. Round here I see 70 year olds working in McDonalds and convenience stores. Go ahead and tell me that "socialism" sucks when you have a 70 year old working in a convenience store just to exist. Go right ahead.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Why does this bitch think it’s okay to take other people’s children under her wing only to indoctrinate them into her accepted ideology? That’s NOT okay. If that were my child’s teacher, I’d sue her. My child’s education in math, science, social studies, etc… is left up to her. My child’s beliefs are NONE OF HER FUCKING CONCERN!
Delia
I have a brother-in-law like that. He’s actually a very nice person who would do anything for you. In his case I think the reason he became a Republican is more personal. His parents were typical academic liberals and they were also terrible parents, for reasons I don’t need to go into here. So I’ve always suspected his Republicanism was mainly an act of rebellion against them. Unfortunately, my sister’s also become a Republican. We just don’t discuss politics with them.
Litlebritdifrnt
Oh and another thing, I want a new puppy so bad right now. I am resisting. Cat question later.
DougJ
But it’s not clear which is the correct definition of "Bush caused 9/11".
If a QB throws five interceptions, you might say that he caused your team to lose. That’s not the same thing as saying that he met with the opposing team’s defensive backs and conspired to throw the interceptions. By the same token, saying "Bush caused 9/11" doesn’t mean he deliberately brought it about.
I believe that Bush caused the disaster in the Iraq, caused the FEMA failure in New Orleans, and caused the current economic crisis (we would have trouble with subprime but the severity of the crisis should be laid at his doorstep). I’m less sure that he causes 9/11 with his ineptitude but every fucked other fucked up thing that’s happened the last eight years can be more or less traced to him. I suspect the same is true with 9/11, it’s just that more of the evidence of incompetence is classified.
Zifnab
After 2 years of Reid and Pelosi – and after a gamer’s childhood growing up learning to hate the names Lieberman, Feinstein, and Hillary Clinton and the next round of "violent digital images are destroying America!" – I can certainly understand why raw cynicism would leave people voting "Not Democrat" as far back as ’04. And with the way the bailout has been handled combined with the Blago scandal, I can definitely sympathize with folks who throw up their hands and decry the entire political system as being full of crooks.
But with the bailout, I just don’t understand why we haven’t seen a widespread abandonment of the GOP from the libertarian angle. I was hoping to watch the emergence of hard right small government types – Club for Growth zealots – who could actually break the party in two and (maybe *hope*) start a viable third party. I’m just not seeing that down here in the south and that saddens me.
DougJ
There’s one other point here: Bushism has a lot in common with Marxism, at least in terms of its practical application. Systems which place ideology over pragmatism are all the same. It doesn’t matter what you call it when what you’re doing is denying reality.
Zifnab
@DougJ:
Cheers to that. Its a definition we should see pushed more often. I’m sick of watching apologists give Bush a free pass just because Bin Laden didn’t launch the attack on Bush’s direct orders.
In much the same way that New Orleans was destroyed by the hurricane but LOST by the politicians who fucked up the management of the crisis, it’s important to put the blame where the blame is due.
DougJ
And with the way the bailout has been handled combined with the Blago scandal, I can definitely sympathize with folks who throw up their hands and decry the entire political system as being full of crooks.
That is a steaming load of bullshit.
Did Blago ask for $700 billion for the fucking seat? Will his choice of Senator cost us $3.5 trillion?
Honestly, I hate this jerk-off "oh, they’re all so bad" bullshit.
Grow the fuck up.
Reverend Dennis
Harry Reid just named Dianne Feinstein to chair the Senate Intelligence Committee. Not only is the notion of Feinstein chairing anything to do with "intelligence" a huge oxymoron, it’s yet another sign that Harry Reid could be replaced with a wind-up toy at no loss to the Democratic party.
DougJ
Sorry to write that after you told me "cheers to that", Z, but I just have no tolerance for anyone (and I know you’re simply creating a hypothetical citizen here, not speaking for yourself) who can’t see the difference in magnitude between Blago and Brownie, let alone Blago and Rumso.
LiberalTarian
I promptly introduced her to my Glock 27’s gaping bore.
Hey, as long as you’re making up shit, might as well go the whole distance.
Litlebritdifrnt
Arnamade, my gloriously evil Orange tabby who cost me a fortune in medical bills* went missing several months ago. Today as I was eating lunch I saw a "Found" ad in the newspaper which described Arnamade perfectly. I called the people and mentioned a few other things that only they could have known. I went out there and checked him out in his cat box, he looked like Arnamade, and he let me scritch his head (although hindsite Arnamade would never have allowed me to do that). I brought him home, got him out of the cat box and it is obvious it is not Arnamade, so what the hell do I do? This is a cat that has no connection to my "family" of pets, no doubt he would have a serious problem fitting in, but I have brought him home and he is now in the bedroom being a cat that does not want anything to do with me.?
*When Arnamade was a kitten he got himself stuck in a tree and broke his leg and tail, as a result major surgery was required wherein his leg was plated to his hip and his tail was amputated.
Laura W
@Litlebritdifrnt:1) Suck it up and force him upon your family.
2) Contact all the pet rescue groups in your area and ask them to take him into their systems while you foster him (if that’s an issue for them.)
3) Run a FOUND ad of your own and hope his real persons see it and claim him.
4) Have your hubby take him to school as an adoption project. Marching band mascot?
5) Drive him to my house. I HEART orange boy cats.
Bring good wine with.
LiberalTarian
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I have to move to get a puppy. :o(
And I just might.
bago
I see a metal gear head!
Reverend Dennis
@Litlebritdifrnt:
You didn’t notice that the other cat had a tail whereas your looked-for cat didn’t?
Litlebritdifrnt
@Laura W:
Ha! He is in the cat box in the bedroom right now, sulking, as they do, I am hoping that I can coax him into coming out. And then, hoping that I can get him to associate with the rest of the house, if it doesn’t happen guess I will call CAPS and get him a forever home that way. Having said that what are the odds of there being two orange tabby cats with docked tails and gimpy left legs in the world? However, he went missing three months ago, he would have grown since then, but the left leg of this cat looks fine, nowhere near what Arnamades left leg would look like. The LAST thing in the world I need is to adopt a strange cat. However if it is to be, then it is to be.
Mike
Pretend she said "Evolution is caused by an Intelligent Designer" and teach the controversy.
Laura W
@Litlebritdifrnt: The LAST thing in the world I needed with my last five adoptions (four cats and the insane Heeler) was another pet. Two came and went quickly (ie, died), three remain. You know you’re gonna love the shit out of that little orange dude if you keep him. Which you will.
Pictures pleeze.
Looks like this is our open thread tonight so I will share this from Sullivan’s site. I’ve just scanned it, but love it. Will go back in the morning, over coffee, when I do my best thinking/reading.
Daily Routines
How writers, artists, and other interesting people organize their days.
OH wow. I totally forgot that INTERVENTION comes back on tonight. Thank Allah KO had a commercial reminder just now. I even had it in my daytimer! I love that show. Better open another bottle of wine.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Reverend Dennis:
Dennis this cat has no tail, that was the first clue.
Laura W
@Litlebritdifrnt: Hey! Isn’t your Peaches an orange Tabby? I think this is a sign.
(Anything related to a stray getting a home is always a sign to me, but so what!)
Litlebritdifrnt
@Laura W:
Actually Arnamade is the son of Patches, a kitten I found under the wheel well of my car at the Food Lion parking lot, she had a litter of three kittens, Harry (died), Mini Me (died) and Arnamade. Patches was stolen (right out of my driveway according to my neighbor) so Arnamade is the only baby I have left of her. I am still beside myself over this, I mean how many bob tail cats with a gimpy left leg can there be out there? (oh and orange tabby) I am still hoping that this is Arnamade, he just has got so independent that he doesn;t know home, I am so hoping that I can get him happy with us.
Church Lady
@The Moar You Know –
You don’t live in Memphis or Shelby County, Tennessee. No teaching credentials are necessary to substitute teach in the public schools. If you have a four year college degree, any degree, you are qualified to substitute teach. You can even sub long term, such as covering a teacher out on maternity leave, and without having any experience or expertise in the subject matter you are supposed to be teaching. And, best of all, those lucky dog subs earn $75 to $80 per day, teaching (i.e., babysitting) our impressionable children.
And you thought we didn’t care about education in Tennessee.
J.D. Rhoades
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Fate has saddled you with a cat. You cannot argue with fate when it is "saddling you with a cat" mode. Suck it up and deal.
AnneLaurie
I’m told that substitute teaching’s become a favorite fallback for well-educated spouses of high earners who don’t "have to work" (for pay), but who can’t bear the perceived ignominy of being labelled JustAHousewife. Once the youngest "homeschooled" offspring goes off to Liberty U — or rebels and enters the local public high school — a substitute teaching certificate gives someone whose last resume-worthy experience was a 1996 intern stint in the YAF a figleaf of capitalist respectability without requiring all the tedious soul-destroying minutiae of, y’know, a real job. Especially if one can credential up in a low-standards state (*cough* NH) in a high-shortage field (math, junior high science, ESL other than Spanish), and one doesn’t actually need to keep on good terms with any given local school’s administration. Now that "I’m doing consulting from my home" has become the tagline to a million jokes, saying "I’m a substitute teacher" gives the underemployed fReichtard spouse an excuse for hanging around the local PTA and complaining about how everybody else’s children are rude, disrespectful, semi-literate Marxists… at least until one’s own Golden Offspring drop an unplanned (usually illegitimate, possibly conceived under the influence of drugs or alcohol) grandchild or two into one’s lap for the next generation of Personal Responsibility Lifestyle homeschooling.
There are plenty of responsible, hard-working substitute teachers who deserve to be treated like professionals and not babysitters. But too many Americans believe that *any* form of teaching is just babysitting… it’s not like they learned anything useful in a classroom, after all!… so teachers join the roster of straw-boogeymen when the scared and stupid go looking for someone to blame.
Litlebritdifrnt
@J.D. Rhoades:
I am afraid you are correct…. sheesh.
Laura W
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Then you will! Give it time. Take it slow and gentle. He is shellshocked, given whatever he’s been through. And now that I know the relationship to Peaches and more of the story, it is EVEN MORE OF A SIGN.
Truly. What a tale. If it is not your Arnamade, it is still meant to be for some reason.
How fluky freaky a story is this, that you just "happened" to be reading the paper over lunch and make all these efforts to bring this guy into your home?
I’m a big believer in this shit, and some time when I’m not riveted to Intervention, I’ll bore you with the story of my black demon kitty, Annie, and her relation to my beloved Walter, RIP.
(BJ community breathes a huge sigh of relief, thinking I was about to launch into the back story now.)
Laura W
@J.D. Rhoades: Do you know Cornelia Read personally?
pattonbt
Re the ‘socially liberal, but fiscally conservative’ meme, I think most people describe themselves that way. Its only the real outliers (one way or another) who wouldnt.
In the end, though, it is a fight of ‘whats more important’ to you – being socially liberal or fiscally conservative? And unfortunately, most people are selfish and NIMBY focused.
Being all ‘socially liberal’ is nice and stuff, but most people dont want it at a cost. I run across people at work and in my extended family (thankfully not in my immediate family) every day who try and have it both ways yet still vote republican without question. And I simply retort, you cant have it both ways. You cant claim to be socially liberal, in any fashion, and vote for the republican party. Its really that simple.
Truthfully, you cant even claim to be fiscally conservative and vote replublican anymore.
What a vote by these people for republicans means -‘dont touch my money – lower taxes please – and damn the rest’. Me, me, me, me and then me. They dont care about the 99% of other policy decisions the republicans make (and will continue to make) that are against long term health, safety and prosperity of the country. For these people, its all about me and all about now.
I am past caring about all the ‘good’ people I know who voted for McCain over Obama. They are simply selfish assholes and are now treated as such (and I tell them as much – just in more polite, but equally direct, terms). People who value their own well being THAT MUCH more than social equality, founding American principles (i.e. no torture, no wars of choice, no infringement of civil liberties and separation of church and state) and macro economic strudiness can go right off and fuck themselves for all I care.
Church Lady
Annie Laurie-
You might have the college of choice wrong. My husband’s God-Squad cousin homeschooled her children. Of the three that are now college age, one is taking "on-line college courses" and the other two are at Bob Jones University – all this according to the latest Christmas card letter. What makes it somewhat interesting is that the cousin, in her younger years, was quite the wild-child offspring of super religious parents and got herself knocked up in high school. She gave the baby up for adoption, got right with Jesus and married another bible beater. I wonder if her kids will rebel at a later date?
Calouste
@John S.:
I’m there with you. The government mandating pay levels across an industry is sociallism, the government ensuring equal pay for equal work within a single company is common sense (except of course when you are a Republican, but Republicans wouldn’t recognize common sense if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Common sense is here again")
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
That’s right. There is no reason to vote Republican anymore unless one is ideologically driven to turn America into a hard right Christian theocracy, or just wants to see America self-destruct.
Ella in NM
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Oh. My. God. How the hell do TWO gloriously evil orange cats with plates in their hips and amputated tails show up in the same town?
This event proves the theory of multiple universes is true.
By the way, my husband did practically the same thing years ago, when our garden variety striped female tabby went missing. He stopped at the animal shelter, saw one in a cage that looked just like her, paid the fines and brought her home, all happy and excited to have made all the little one’s happy.
Except it wasn’t her. We kept her anyway, and she finally came out from under the bed after about two weeks and was a pretty nice kitty.