This is actually starting to get funny:
“What I mean is they have got no plan,” Grayson told Wolf Blitzer. “It’s been 24 hours since I said that. Where is the Republican plan? We’re all waiting to see something that will take care of the pre-existing conditions, to take care of the 40 million Americans who have no coverage at all.
“That’s what I meant when I said that the Republican plan is don’t get sick. And if you do get sick, die quickly.”
***But Carville backed away from Grayson when the congressman said that Republicans he believes are obstructing health care reform are “foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.”
“I would call (them) regressive as opposed to Neanderthal,” Carville said.
Grayson also rejected comparisons between his comments and those of some Republicans, including former Alaska governor and GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, that the Democratic reform plan called for “death panels” to decide who would get life-saving treatments.
“I said to myself, ‘I wish Sarah Palin read the bill.’ That’s not what this bill says. That’s a scare tactic,” he said. “What I said is the god’s honest truth.”
Grayson said he decided to deliver his after-hours speech Tuesday after the Harvard study was released and he realized “we cannot go on any longer in this country where people cannot afford health care, where they coverage they got is good until they need it.”
Calling for universal health care, he slammed “whoever it is that’s causing the Republicans to fight tooth-and-nail against anything, absolutely anything, to have every vote come down to being 257 to 175 in the House, over and over and over again.”
“Those are the people who are really disserving Americans,” he said.
Grayson isn’t completely accurate. A lot of the Republicans think prayer is a health care plan, too. Personally, I think the holocaust remarks were over the top, but who will be the first villager to create a false equivalency between Grayson’s statements and some of the nonsense that oozes out of someone like Michelle Bachman’s mouth?
My money is on David Gregory. Although since he took over from Russert, no one even watches anymore. Well done, Stretch!
TR
You know, I honestly forgot Gregory was still hosting MTP. I tried to watch it a couple times when he took over, but it was even worse than I’d imagined.
What are the ratings for it? Any chance they’ll replace Gregory with an actual journalist?
Legalize
The “Holocaust” bit was too much. But the knuckle-dragging neanderthal bit was fucking gold. He used that line on Maddow last night, so his continued use of it must be netting him some good feedback. I love this guy. I don’t care if he’s saying this stuff to raise money. Watching the preening babies in the MSM / GOP trample all over themselves in a race to be the most shocked is priceless.
Corey
It was “a” holocaust, not “The Holocaust”. 45,000 people a year die in this country for no other reason than lack of insurance. I might not use that term exactly, but I struggle to call it categorically untrue.
Kryptik
Sorry, John, but I doubt that anyone’s going to be making that false equivalency.
More likely, hacks like Gregory, John King, et. al. are going to paint Grayson as worse. After all, there wasn’t much honest to god pushback against Death Panels, and people like Rep. Foxx saying that Democrats would put ‘seniors in the position of being put to death by their government’ and the like.
And I don’t know about you, but saying that one party wants you to ‘die quickly if you get sick’ is a slight bit different from ‘one party wants to use the government to KILL YOUR FAMILY’.
Macsenmifune
What happened to Carville? Is it just being married or did they give him a Cnn lobotomy when he join the network. The only purpose hes seem to serve is to make paint peel.
Doug
What struck me about Grayson’s appearance on “The Situation Room” was the eagerness of the panel to talk about what amounted to Beltway cultural issues and their clear desire to avoid talking about health care.
They wanted to talk about how “rude” he had been and Grayson deftly kept talking about how people were dying. That made Blitzer, et al.’s, insistence on talking about civility look really, really shallow.
SadOldVet
My money is on David Gregory to soil himself before he will say anything negative about a rethugnican.
jwb
I see Grayson, a little wild, but still in the game throwing high and tight; Bachman—she’s off playing Calvin ball in pony land dropping nuclear bombs.
MattF
OT, but this object d’art, shows Mr. Madoff getting what he deserves.
Darius
Never fear, Politico’s already on the case!
Pangloss
Didn’t Stephanopoulosegojevich already do that?
mantis
I very rarely give money to politicians, but Grayson got a donation from me this week. That’s the kind of straight talk we need in Washington!
Napoleon
Grayson should get a medal. Although I wish he tempered a few of his remarks in general he did exactly what Democratic office holders need to do, which is make a strong emotional pitch and call the Reps out on the carpet for exactly what consequences are of Rep policies. Go back and read speaches from Truman and FDR and you simply do not have Dem office holders who give those type of speaches anymore that just lay it on the line.
We need more of Grayson’s type on the Dem side.
Dustin
If you can think of any other term to describe the modern American insurance cesspool than “an act of mass destruction and loss of life” I’m all game. Until then he’s perfectly right, it’s a holocaust. Just as the word Armageddon has meaning outside of the end-times fetish story in Revelations, the word holocaust doesn’t have to refer to the Nazi extermination campaign.
The word fits. Use it.
Violet
Can’t be David Gregory. He’s never first or best at anything. But he’ll fall in line and push the meme, just like always.
jwb
@Macsenmifune: I didn’t watch the clip, but from the quote I found Carville’s response amusing and productive. Sure, he seemed to say that he was not approving of Grayson’s comment, but he made certain to repeat it, and then when he seemed to back off he stuck the knife in: no, really, they are just regressive. I think that’s perfect use of Grayson’s comment to move the overton window to the left. (It is now “reasonable” to call Republican opposition “regressive.”)
gizmo
I have mixed feelings about Grayson. The guy has brass balls, and heaven knows that the Democrats need more like him. But his over-the-top rhetoric sets him up for cheap and easy criticism, which our corporate media is more than willing to provide. I’m more inclined to listen to people like Howard Dean, who talks tough but doesn’t get into gratuitous personal insults. It’s a more effective style, IMHO.
Steinway1957
Here’s the Reuter’s article about the study linking 45,000 US deaths yearly to lack of insurance: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE58G6W520090918
So far, Grayson has done a good job framing this. I would like to see him and the rest of the Dems point out that 45000 per year averages out to 123 deaths per day, or, as the article says, 1 death every 12 minutes. That really starts to hit home — every day without health insurance, on average 123 people die.
ChrisB
The false equivalency? It already happened this morning courtesy of, no surprise here, Mika on Morning Joe.
With help from guest Tom Brokaw.
kay
@Doug:
That’s why I’m glad he said it. He’ll have to continue to shout about dead people above the pundit din, but ask yourself if there would have been any media coverage at all of that truly shocking casualty number without the Republican Outrage Of The Day angle?
Nope.
He’s right. The only OUTRAGE here is that we’ve been “debating” health care for 6 months and that’s the first time anyone mentioned all those dead people.
If he stands his ground, I’ll donate to him.
JGabriel
But Carville backed away from Grayson when the congressman said that Republicans he believes are obstructing health care reform are “foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.”
“I would call (them) regressive as opposed to Neanderthal,” Carville said.
Carville is right. Calling the Republicans Neanderthals is an insult to Neaderthals — not to mention wildly inaccurate, as Neanderthals had larger brains than we do.
Republicans should only be compared to things that are vicious and stupid, like … umm … you know, I’m having a really hard time coming up with something vicious and stupid enough to serve as a good analogy for Republicans.
.
Bruno
I got a woody for Grayson.
Wag
When I watched this last night on C&L, I was struck by the fact that Carville had this bemused look on his face. His words were soft left squish, but his body language was full of admiration for Grayson. I think Carville was proud of a Dem who stood up to the rest of the panel the way Grayson dod.
Ash
Hyperbole is not rare on the floor of Congress. I liked that he was willing to meet these assholes face to face and not back down.
A dictionary.com definition of holocaust: any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life
Seems to fit perfectly fine to me.
jibeaux
I am just thinking of Richard Dawkins’ interesting Newsweek article on evolution promoting his new book, where he says that Neanderthal is colloquially and unjustly used as an insult. So, probably Grayson was too kind on that score.
I can’t watch the clip here, will do it at home, but at this point I kind of don’t care if there’s hyperbole and overwrought emotionalism. Fighting the absurd right wing talk with reasonable, rational wonkiness is going nowhere. Let’s get our mugs on the teevee and start talking about people dying in this stupid system.
ricky
@Macsenmifune:
Having spent the last couple of days arduosly struggling to scrape peeling paint from a door frame, I appreciate your suggestion. If Carville is available, next time I will use him instead of a scraper and sander.
Shawn in ShowMe
Agreed. Apparently Carville has been taking Obama Jedi lessons. Now the frame is “Are Republicans intentionally or unintentionally driving Americans into bankruptcy?”
JHF
Remember, Grayson didn’t say “THE Holocaust,” he called the many thousands of deaths from lack of insurance “A holocaust,” which I think absolutely applies.
Brick Oven Bill
Here is my health care plan. It is very similar to the health care plan that existed for 160 years in this country and is tried and proven:
As a person, be productive and be compensated for your productivity. Take some of this compensation to a health care provider of your choice, and exchange it for his services. Be frugal and save money to provide for yourself in retirement, and for your dependent children.
This plan would reduce administrative costs to, like, zero, and significantly reduce the overall cost of health care to the American population.
fuddmain
Grayson is my representative and I’m damn glad I voted for him. Not that there was much choice with the alternative being that walking colostomy bag, Ric Keller.
I really like that he’s saying this while coming from a district that ain’t exactly DFH heaven.
Legalize
From the Politico article:
Win.
donovong
So far, I haven’t seen a whole lot of folks disputing WHAT Grayson said, as much as how he said it. And I don’t recall Wolfie and his clan calling on Bachman or the idiot from North Carolina or etc., etc., to apologize for the bullshit lies they spew.
And the word holocaust is not exclusive to The Holocaust, and everybody needs to STFU about that, including Rachel Maddow. 45000 people dying annually should be a fucking holocaust on anybody’s moral scale.
Legalize
Shorter BOB:
Don’t get sick. If you do get sick, go broke trying to make yourself better. If you can’t do that, kindly die quickly and out of my sight.
Midnight Marauder
@Dustin:
@Ash:
All these things, right here. Just because the Traditional Media and Republicans are going to start WankFest 2k9 about the use of the word “holocaust” doesn’t mean that Grayson used the term incorrectly. It very much so applies as a descriptor for the health care travesty that has existed and continues to exist unabated in this country.
Hopefully, this is the beginning of more Dems growing a spine and starting the pushback against the outright lies and grossly misleading rhetoric of Repubicans and Traditional Media hacks.
Zifnab
Hey, let Grayson keep those haymakers flying fast and thick. If he makes it through 2010 with a resounding victory and picks up an extra twenty or thirty grand in his war chest for his TV exposure, it might put fire in the bellies of the moderate Dems.
Certainly, the way the Wilson firestorm set off a wave of fund raising on all sides, and the way Dean’s bellicosity always brings home the bacon, more people are going to start trying to fattening their coffers just by being loudly liberal.
And then let the chips fall where they may.
ricky
@Brick Oven Bill:
Your plan is sound. Unfortunately too many of today’s busy health care professionals refuse to accept the chickens, even when beheaded and plucked.
The Grand Panjandrum
He called Republicans “… nattering, nabobs, or negativism …” Kind of timely, eh. Last I heard he’s raised over $80,000 since his appearance on CNN. Good for him. Punch those ratfuckers in the teeth every chance you get and good things happen.
Justin
Brick Oven Bill:
Tried and proven, indeed, at killing tens of thousands every year who could have been saved, but are too fucked by profit-whoring insurance companies to do anything other than, as Grayson says, “die quickly”.
Cat Lady
I love this Grayson fellow’s attitude. His language pushes the envelope, but he has the advantage of being right. He just needs to stay the course, and he’ll be fine. In fact, I’d like to see him double down, because that seems to work for the right, to get traction. The media folks seem really uncomfortable with him because he’s not defensive at all – he seems to be challenging them to tell him how he’s wrong. Since they can’t, because he isn’t, they need to fall back on civility, but then he can call them out on their IOKIYAR birther controversy/death panel/ YOU LIE controversy bullshit. They can’t ignore him though, because then they’ll get hammered by the Becktards. Oh how I love to see media get hoisted on their own petard.
BTW, Lois Romano already went the false equivalency route in her chat today. You can always count on the WaPo.
licensed to kill time
I would like to know where the outrage is for Republicans who have said things like:
and:
linky
I’m waving my freak flag high for Grayson.
Midnight Marauder
@JHF:
Absolutely correct. Here is the exact quote:
Context is your friend, Wolfie.
kay
@Ash:
He’s playing their own game, by their own rules. I don’t know why that isn’t fair. He said something to shock the media, basically, so he could get their attention and repeat his point 50 times.
His issue has the advantage of being true. There aren’t really death panels, but people really are dying without access to health care.
I don’t know if it will work, in the sense that the number or issue will stick out from the blathering din, but I give him credit for trying something.
shep
Corey @3 is correct. Small “h” holocaust is a word (you can look it up). Since it generally refers to “thorough destruction” it’s a rather poor usage (even with the “extensive loss of life” part) but it is in no way “over the top” unless you confuse it with a reference to “The Holocaust”.
AkaDad
I would be a little bit more subtle and say that the insurance companies are causing what amounts to fifteen 9/11’s a year.
Brick Oven Bill
“It is good to be back at work”
-Captain Chesley Sullenberger, minutes ago
Sully is a great example of step one of my health care plan. Be productive and be compensated for your productivity.
Senator Rockefeller’s health care plan fosters dependency, and eventual enslavement. His plan is unethical.
My plan would provide for everybody, but would include a provision for birth control among those who are unable or unwilling to work. This way, slavery will be avoided. My plan is ethical.
joeyess
He wasn’t referring the THE Holocaust. He was referring to the actual definition of the word “holocaust”. Here’s a link to help in divining the difference.
So, no, it wasn’t over the top. It was spot on.
The Populist
He did go over the top with the term holocaust but overall a fine performance based in facts and not bullcrap, dipshit strawman stances like some on the right.
If the Dems can find more honest souls like Grayson, I will register as a dem tomorrow.
He called it like he saw it, based his analysis on facts and used the GOPs own hyperbole to make and carry his facts home.
God bless you Rep Grayson!
The Populist
Oh and Grayson is very articulate AND he seems to be a populist. Things I admire in any politician. Republicans pander, folks like Grayson are fighting.
ricky
Every time you discuss whther Grayson’s words were
appopriate you have to discuss the context of his remarks,
the death of thousands of uninsured Americans, and the defenders of the system to whom his remarks were aimed, Republicans. Fair trade to me.
The Populist
“Sully is a great example of step one of my health care plan. Be productive and be compensated for your productivity.”
Hey Brick Oven moron, Sully testified how the airline companies stiffed him. He works hard but he got the shaft as thanks. Kindly STFU now, thanks.
anonevent
@Brick Oven Bill: Glad you brought that up BOB. When you get pancreatic cancer, come tell us bye, since I know you’ll just curl up in a corner and die because you bravely decided that since you couldn’t afford the treatment, you wouldn’t ask for it.
In other words, GFYWABB.
El Tiburon
How about ‘genocide’? Does that state what is happening clearly enough?
45,000 Americans dying a year because of a lack of access to health care and somebody gives a fuck because Grayson used a word that is technically correct?
I could have thrown a brick at Rachel Maddow last night when she asked Grayson THREE FUCKING TIMES if regrets using that word and if it was in reference to Nazis. Sorry Rachel, love you, but you were wrong to harp on it.
Explain to me how either of these two definitions don’t fit here? Politicians are refusing to remedy a problem that kills 45,000 a year. I think we need a stronger term.
GENOCIDE: systematic killing of a racial or cultural group
HOLOCAUST: an act of mass destruction and loss of life (especially in war or by fire); “a nuclear holocaust”
jwb
@JGabriel: I believe the word you’re looking for is Republicans. Sui generis, or something like that…
kay
@Legalize:
Now I have to donate. He said “hissy fits”. I see he’s not backing down yet…
jean
@Zifnab: Yes. Finally, a Dem we have been wishing and hoping for and folks are complaining he’s not civil. Screw that. I, for one, am jumping up and down in my seat and sending as many $$ as I can afford.
Midnight Marauder
@Brick Oven Bill:
You are, quite literally, one of the craziest motherfuckers on the Internet today.
The Populist
“He called Republicans “… nattering, nabobs, or negativism …” Kind of timely, eh. Last I heard he’s raised over $80,000 since his appearance on CNN. Good for him. Punch those ratfuckers in the teeth every chance you get and good things happen.”
Grayson doesn’t have to worry, he is a rich man who doesn’t pander to special interests. Even if he nets out in the high six figures when all is said and done, he spent millions of his own money to beat the GOP and win in 2008.
gocart mozart
Re: Michelle Bachman
Section 2511 of the health care bill referred to by Bachmann, makes no mention of abortion and stipulates,
See also the Hyde Amendment which bans any federal funding of abortion and has been on the books for about 15 years. Far be it from me to tell her how to do her job, but for a law to no longer be in effect, it has to be either repealed or modified in some respect. Unless she shows me where in the bill Hyde is repealed or modified, I can only assume that she is pulling things out of her ass and throwing them against the wall to see if it will stick. Or she is an idiot, or both.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/bachmann-sex-clinics-will_n_306292.html
Sasha
@Bruno:
Dick Grayson?
The Grand Panjandrum
Here is a link to Grayson’s Kos diary about this issue and it appears he’s raised almost $100,000 since his sppech on the House floor.
bob
Mr. Cole, is there some reason you haven’t booted the resident troll yet? Is it too technologically savvy to be permanently banned, or is something else? I mean, we are talking years now of the same song, same dance.
Perhaps you’re thinking that ‘controversy’ brings eyeballs? Except this troll is bringing stupidity and hatred for fellow humans, not controversy. Oh, wait, wait … is it because it serves as a kind of pet/trophy, to remind readers of the pathetic benightment of America?
If so, I’d say just get a better one, Mr. Cole. Or at least make the thing re-register or something. It makes the site look bad to have such a lame enemy, and at this point I don’t think we need more reminders of the stupid swamp-things that corrode our nation.
lou
holocaust
Am I the only one who sees Grayson as spoofing sanctimonious Republicans with the “end this holocaust” language? I could swear I’ve heard this 1,001 times from indignant goobers waxing on the House floor about ending the holocaust of fetuses slaughtered every year by eeevilll abortion mill doctors.
It was pretty clever, at least to me, to turn around and use their hyperbolic language on them. I laughed.
Tsulagi
Too bad they can’t clone Grayson for the Senate.
Democrats in Congress like Grayson would be the Pubs greatest fear. Ones cutting through R-bullshit not distracted by their outrage of the day nor giving a shit about their feelings when crying they’re victims to get the work done. They’ve worked long and hard to train the rest of the Dems.
kay
I don’t know why there’s a rule that Republicans can say untrue things about this person’s plan (the House plan) with absolute impunity, yet he can’t say something true about the Republicans lack of a plan.
Who made this rule? David Gregory? Why are we following it, again? Maybe more importantly, why would he, follow this media-imposed rule?
The rule loses its magic power when he stops following it, and not a moment sooner.
ironranger
Bob must be quite wealthy & a wise planner if he has well over a million dollars set aside just in case he gets hit by a truck & ends up a quadriplegic. Very smart of him to plan for those health care costs plus enough for his retirement & plenty left over to leave to the kids.
Mr. Tactful
I want to have Alan Grayson’s baby.
I used to think having rich guys as politicians was a bad idea, because they would just use their power to get richer.
Grayson seems to know he’s still going to be rich after he’s finished with politics and therefore is doing it exactly as he damn well pleases. He says hissy fits, and I feel little starbursts coming out of the teevee right at me…
geg6
Why is the word holocaust over the top or out of bounds? Lack of health care is causing about 44,000 people to die every fucking year in this country? Are you saying that somehow isn’t a holocaust? Are the only holocausts allowable now the one during WWII? The word, used properly according to its dictionary definition, is over the top?
WTF? I call bullshit. A holocaust (which is, I believe, the exact terminology used by Rep. Grayson) is not the same thing as The Holocaust. And deliberately killing sick people through neglect and with the motive of profit most certainly IS a goddam holocaust.
Zifnab
@lou:
Abortion and the Death Tax. The GOP only cares about you if you’re not yet born or already dead. I’m pretty eager to hear more Republicans like Ensign and Kyl protest maternity care in insurance policies while demanding that not a penny goes towards Planned Parenthood.
It’s almost a wonder why we haven’t heard more from the pro-“life” crowd, screaming at Democrats for being baby killers, while they demand more freedom for insurance companies to cut off compensation to actual babies.
Mr. Tactful
I want to have Alan Grayson’s baby.
I used to think having rich guys as politicians was a bad idea, because they would just use their power to get richer.
Grayson seems to know he’s still going to be rich after he’s finished with politics and therefore is doing it exactly as he damn well pleases. He says hissy fits, and I feel little starbursts coming out of the teevee right at me…
Sentient Puddle
Ech…I’m going to have to come out against the word “holocaust” in this case, but for slightly rejiggered reasons. It doesn’t really matter that the definition is a general destruction of life. It matters that the first thing people think of when they hear that word is Nazis, which makes it too easy for Republicans to go all “OMG GODWIN!!1” on him. See also: swastikas (run that one by your coworker and see what happens).
That all said, I also don’t think he really should apologize for it either. But I do think it’s a bit disingenuous to cherry pick meanings.
Pasquinade
Limbaugh v. Harvard – “No One Has Died Because of Lack of Insurance” and 13 Year old Abortions
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/1/788535/-Limbaugh-v.-HarvardNo-One-Has-Died-Because-of-Lack-of-Insurance-and-13-Year-old-Abortions
area man
Why is it only Democrats who have to temper their remarks while Republicans can blather on about death panels and putting gramma on the ice floe? Nevermind, rhetorical.
Grayson is a hero for saying what he did and for sticking to his guns and not backing down. I called his office and told them the same. I also called Speaker Pelosi’s office and told them that if the Dem leadership were even thinking about encouraging Grayson to apologize, they wouldn’t get dime one from me ever again. Apologize for telling the truth? Fuck that in the neck.
Oh, and ‘holocaust’ (small ‘h’) is a perfectly appropriate description of what’s going on for the uninsured and underinsured in this country.
Spines! We can haz them!
joeyess
@Brick Oven Bill: The President of the Randian Fanboy Club of America chimes in.
scott
I’m sorry John but I just don’t understand all the hand wringing and garment rending by you and others over Grayson’s use of the word holocaust.
He didn’t say THE Holocaust nor did he in any way equate it with the events of World War II or of the Killing Fields of Cambodia. He simply said that 44,000 people dying each year due to lack of insurance was “A” holocaust.
Its a word John. And its a word with a dictionary definition beyond the genocide of the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge. And among its several dictionary definitions is this: “a massive slaughter” http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust — which, I think we can all agree, is exactly what 44,000 unnecessary deaths each year represents.
I’d suggest that perhaps we’ve all become a bit too sensitive when we start making it a point to avoid the use of certain words, even when those words have a perfectly appropriate meaning in the context within which they are used, simply because that word may be associated in our minds with something else.
PurpleGirl
Lou — yes, anti-abortion forces regularly use the term holocaust.
Grayson also aluded to anti-abortion forces when, in his apology to those who have died, he said (paraphrase here) “caring about people AFTER they’re born.”
geg6
@ironranger:
BoB said something about health care? All I saw was his affection for pie. ;-)
That said, I wonder what BoB and his ilk would have to say if they were my late friend, Greg, who became a quadriplegic at the age of 26 (with a wife and 3 kids) and simply hadn’t been in the workforce long enough to save the more than a million dollars it cost to keep him alive until his health insurance company decided he’d lived off their dime long enough and pulled his insurance and had him thrown out of the hospital he was in being treated for the many infections that people with trachs get? I guess all those premiums Greg and his wife had paid weren’t enough and Greg had to die in his mid-40s because he was stupid enough to be hit by a drunk driver and paralyzed at C3 at such a young age that he couldn’t possibly have saved enough to save his own life. I guess BoB would be fine with the same thing happening to him.
JenJen
You know what I love? I love when Boehner comes on my teevee and talks about how “the Speaker needs to tone down the rhetoric in the Democrat (sic) Party.”
Gotta love it when the Minority Leader uses rhetoric in an anti-rhetoric speech!
georgia pig
He came on like Sasquatch in those “Don’t fuck with Sasquatch” beef jerky commercials. I only wish he could have thrown that rodent Castellanos through a plate glass window, and the obtuseness of Wolf, Johns and Borger was insufferable ( Carville was just trying not to step on Grayson’s lines). The Rude Pundit has a great summary: “Grayson walked into Wolf Blitzer’s house, drank his whiskey, and took a giant shit on CNN’s floor.”
Grayson’s larger purpose was to goose his dem colleagues. I don’t think he needs the campaign money, except to show his weaker colleagues that they can survive if they show some balls. This guy has been gunning for Federal contract fraudsters during the Bush years and knows the cesspool of corruption. Maybe it’s hard to square letting 40,000 people die and thousands more go bankrupt with the knowledge that contractors are stealing billions from the public trough in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There’s nothing at all over top about what he said, and it needs to be said more often. That is the fucking Republican plan, as eloquently expressed by Brick Oven Meathead.
ksmiami
We need more Garysons – kick these Republican and Blue Dog whores and their media enablers in the effin teeth and never, ever apologize. Take the stand that is right and the people will respect you for having guts. Clue to Harry Reid – you only have power if you USE it!
The Moar You Know
@Brick Oven Bill: Funny thing, BoB. I know a bit about Sullenberger.
Chesley and my father have the same job (instructor pilot) and work for the same company – and worked for the same previous company (PSA) before they were bought out by the current one (US Airways). They’ve been working together since 1973 and know each other very well.
They are both, to put it mildly, “productive”. And yet somehow all their hard work and productivity didn’t stop their employer, US Airways, from stealing every last dime from their pension fund and then declaring bankruptcy. Their employer, once they were done with the looting, then tossed the empty shell of their retirement over to the Feds to cover, which they did. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger and my father both got the same deal; 10 cents on the dollar.
You’ll pardon me if I don’t have too much faith in what you consider to be a good idea about health care, since you know about as much about health care as you know about what hard work and productivity gets you in America today.
ironranger
@geg6:
Yes, and according to BoB & friends we all should be able to plan for catastrophes. Those who can’t are just sol & losers to the survival of the richest/saved by Jesus crowd.
Calouste
@gocart mozart:
Maybe if a 13 year old girl can get pregnant and have an abortion without mom and dad being none the wiser mom and dad should be paying a bit more attention to their daughter instead of just stuffing them in front of the TV and giving them microwave meals? You know like talk and pay attention to the kids? Rep. Bachmann?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@El Tiburon:
I just did a little back-of-the-envelope math and at 45k per year it will take 134 years for that total to top the 6 million mark. Anyone want to take bets on whether, given the opportunity the GOP won’t attempt to block, obstruct and stall health care reform for at least the next 130 years? After all, they’ve already been doing it for 70 years.
gbear
But there’s been 47 republicans spewing over-the-top rhetoric on a regular basis and being treated very seriously by the corporate media. I’m so glad to see Grayson shoving the same thing back in their faces and forcing them to deal with it. The media is spewing about this more because Grayson is making them look bad than because what he’s saying is outragous. More power to him. Huzza!!
gocart mozart
@Calouste:
Also, it is interesting that Bachmann apparently believes that Obama healthcare will be so quick and efficient with zero waiting for medical procedures.
Koz
“Screw that. I, for one, am jumping up and down in my seat and sending as many $$ as I can afford.”
Name that tune. A fool and his money are soon parted.
danimal
I prefer civil, reason-based dialog that elevates the civic discourse. Usually.
With all the GOP death panel trash-talking, a good punch in the face is appreciated and merited. We don’t need all our pols to go nuclear, but letting the truth slip out in anger once in a while is good policy and good politics. People have a grudging respect for righteous indignation, even when they disagree.
ericvsthem
@The Moar You Know: You win this thread. DIAF, BoB.
DBrown
@Midnight Marauder: True, but he is our “craziest motherfucker”. Fart for brains is too much fun to lose.
Koz
“Lack of health care is causing about 44,000 people to die every fucking year in this country? Are you saying that somehow isn’t a holocaust? Are the only holocausts allowable now the one during WWII? The word, used properly according to its dictionary definition, is over the top?”
You are a piece of shit.
Midnight Marauder
@DBrown:
Perhaps for some, but I have long tired of his increasingly repetitive and tiresome shtick. It was barely funny when he had the occasional “hit,” and it’s exponentially disgusting and moronic when he misses, which is all the time these days.
Either switch it up or GTFO.
Zuzu's Petals
I think I posted this on the wrong thread.
The point being I’m big on rewarding virtue as much as punishing asshattery.
geg6
@Koz:
LOL! Is this the best you can do? I’m a piece of shit because I point out the truth? LOL! May I be a piece of shit every day of my life then.
Svensker
@Koz:
Why?
Koz
“Also, it is interesting that Bachmann apparently believes that Obama healthcare will be so quick and efficient with zero waiting for medical procedures.”
Just remember when your health care plan dies in Congress, don’t blame “them”. It’s all on you.
Midnight Marauder
@Koz:
Wow. Seriously? That’s all you have to offer? Your performance yesterday while discussing HCR was laughable in its idiocy, and all you can do today is pop in with a “You are a piece of shit”?
Is every troll/spoof on this site throwing in the towel these days? Because, man, you fuckers are really not even trying anymore. What is the point of coming here and then just half-assing it?
Honestly, I want to know. What is the point of trolling when you’re not even knocking on the door of doing a decent to serviceable job of trolling?
slippy
Republican assholes searching for equivalence in Alan Grayson’s remarks will walk the familiar path that lead us to believe that Michael Moore is the liberal answer to Rush Limbaugh / Glenn Beck because of course Moore constantly makes up total nonsense like “nobody ever died from lack of healthcare” or “there are no homeless in america” or says things like he’d like to poison a Republican congressman or openly contemplates a military coup if the candidate he likes doesn’t get elected. I mean, it’s obvious.
It’s also the same bullshit equivalence I’ve recently stumbled across that Sarah Palin’s candidacy-destroying gaffes such as “I can see Russia from my house” which originated as “You can see russia from Alaska::therefore I know a lot about Russia” is the same as Al Gore’s “I invented the Internet” which originated as “I (demonstrably) authored a lot of early legislation relating to the Internet::therefore I will continue to champion forward-looking technology and ideas.” One of them of course was completely reasonable and blown totally out of proportion; the other was completely retarded to begin with and made only slightly more silly when it was turned into a Saturday Night Live skit.
Alan Grayson is not at all like the wingnut fucktards like Dick Morris who go on TV and say “Obama’s plan is going to kill folks” which he quite seriously actually said without any factual attribution to it; and not at all like Sarah Palin and the entire micro-coordinated Republican Establishment’s robotic claims of “Death Panels” which I am quite sure were repeated even by Chuck “bad faith negotiator” Grassley. Grayson called the death of 44,000 Americans a year a “holocaust.” The definition of “holocaust” is “sacrifice in which the offering is completely destroyed” which about fits for the destruction of 44,000 lives each year in the service of health insurance industry profits. The fact that Limbaugh is being forced to make up increasingly absurd stuttering horseshit to counter it on its own field, i.e., “nobody ever died from a lack of healthcare” is testament to its effectiveness.
I completely agree with everything Grayson is on record for saying. And I am overjoyed that he is saying it, loudly and unapologetically, and giving the Republican insurance industry shills a good solid kick to the teeth while he’s doing it. Right. The. Fuck. On.
Ghost Poet
As someone who had family killed in “The” Holocaust I don’t find Grayson’s description of 44,000 Americans dying per year for the sake of insurance company profits inappropriate at all. As I’ve seen elsewhere, that’s a little over one 9/11 per month, and the people doing it are celebrated as paragons of American Capitalist Virtue, not being sent to a secret prison in Poland and waterboarded until they pay your claims.
Ash Can
@Koz: You poor thing, you don’t have anything at all, do you?
ironranger
@geg6:
First strategy is changing the subject.
When that doesn’t work, resort to junior high name calling.
lovethebomb
Grayson is the new Obama. The other one gave his testicles to wall street, the banks and now, the insurance industry. There is no difference between what Obama has done and a republican. He is a right wing corporatist. If only an actual republican were in office, then there would be dem opposition. What sort of insanity virus causes the last 2 dem prez to comprimise away everything for no purpose at all. I think we have been had. It is all corporatocracy, all the time. There is no true democracy. All is corrupt. What rough beast, his hour come round at last, slouches towards Washington to be born?
wasabi gasp
The problem with Grayson is he doesn’t have a million (two? three?) Real Americans with Real Concerns standing beside him smooshing the lawn helping him Godwin his cause. He just has you ‘tards. Some of you are probably gay, too. I mean, really.
Why did the death panel cross the road? To keep fucking that chicken.
God, I want a joint.
Mark
The religous right has had no problem hollering about liberals allowing the American Holocaust to happen for decades.
American Holocaust = Abortion.
Midnight Marauder
@lovethebomb:
This shit again? Le sigh.
ChrisNBama
What I find fascinating about this stunt is that Grayson has turned the discourse to HEALTH CARE. He’s talking about people and not process. Before Grayson, the conversation was about the horse race, but when Grayson stood before the Grand Inquisitor’s of The Situation Room, he kept repeating the fact that 45K ppl are dying each year due to lack of health insurance.
So when the Miss Manners wannabe pundits kept turning the conversation towards what he said, he would turn the conversation back to the matter at hand: ppl are dying because congress is failing to act. Beautiful. He is providing the recipe for the rest of the spineless democrats to take action. I see Grayson, in a way, as this debate’s Howard Dean. If you recall in 2004, democrats were complete pussies when dealing with the WOT and Bush. Governor Dean came roaring in and spoke forcefully about the malfeasance of Bushco, and then John Kerry took up the baton.
Hopefully the catalyst of Grayson’s remarks prove more successful then Kerry’s campaign, but I for one am invigorated. The left has been shit on for the past nine months as Obama has triangulated his way into irrevelance. It’s great to see a purely democratic voice speaking in the wilderness.
Tonal Crow
@Cat Lady:
I’d like to see some other Democrats speak to the gut like this. It’s about time they learned that well-used audacity doesn’t consume political capital, it generates it.
ChrisNBama
This part of the conversation has become the silliest of all. Anyone who was listening to or reading Grayson’s remarks could clearly see that he was referring to “a holocaust” and not The Holocaust.
It’s a shame when words get appropriated by one event then lose all meaning outside of that event.
When I was in the military the phrase: Weapon of Mass Destruction referred to only one thing and one thing only–nuclear weapons. Then when Bush went on the road selling the American people on our Glorious War in Iraq, he kept conflating WMD with biological and chemical weapons. Now, admittedly, biological and chemical weapons are bad things that can cause massive death, but they do not wreak destruction. But since Bush’s conflation with virtually anything under the sun with WMD, WMD can mean anything from a truck load of fertilizer used as a bomb to a chemical or radiological agent. WMD, as originally understood, is no more.
Tonal Crow
…and promptly triangulated his way to a loss. As long as Grayson (unlike Kerry) keeps standing up, he’ll become an increasingly-powerful channel for real progressive action on healthcare, and possibly other issues.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Tonal Crow: …and promptly triangulated his way to a loss.
Yeah. I was gonna say… maybe Kerry isn’t our best example of how things should proceed.
gwangung
@Xecky Gilchrist:
So basically, say what you mean, say it passionately and say it straightforwardly, without regard to political calculation.
Midnight Marauder
Meanwhille, in the Land of the Spineless:
Got that? There’s a public option, a public option, and a “public option.”
Or something.
John D.
@ChrisNBama: Um, WMD has covered NBC weaponry since at least the 70’s. There’s plenty of blame to tar Bush with, let’s stick to the ones he actually did.
henqiguai
@Dustin (#14):
Yeah, late to the party as usual. But, what Dustin said ! Or are we to find a different word to describe the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks, Pol Pot, Stalin’s Ukranian 20 million deaths; how about the American kill-off of Native Americans ? These weren’t holocausts ?
b-psycho
@Brick Oven Bill: That depends a ton on how you define “compensated”. For decades the average person’s compensation has, in inflation-adjusted terms, actually gone down despite increased productivity. I’m all for a labor revolt if you are…
Outis
If he had said “tragedy” instead of “holocaust,” I would have had no problem at all with what he said. (And even with the word he chose, I don’t think he is entirely off base, just unwise.)
Wile E. Quixote
@Koz
Oh yeah? Well your mom is filthy whore. In fact she’s such a filthy whore that the term “cock-craving cum-dumpster” was invented to describe her. This suggests, albeit unscientifically, that you’re a pathetic, trolling son of a cock-craving cum-dumpster.
Mnemosyne
If anyone cares, BoB’s ideal world of 160 years ago had not yet figured out that germs cause disease or that it’s a good idea to sterilize your surgical instruments before operating on a patient. And that’s not even getting into x-rays, blood types, insulin, and penicillin. For the ladies, only one guy had figured out how to keep us from dying of puerperal (childbed) fever, but no one listened to him until the 1860s, so we’d still get to have the fun of that as well.
You have to admit, though, medical care was a heck of a lot cheaper since there was so much less of it available.
raptusregaliter
I think if Grayson had gone just a little bit further, he would’ve given the Rethuglicans their very own public option.
Step 1 is the same for everybody: Don’t Get Sick.
Step 2 is where the public option kicks in:
If You Do Get Sick, Choose Your Option:
a) Pray
b) Die Quickly
c) Pray That You Die Quickly
In re David Gregory, the only reason I know that he still has a show is because Brian Williams has to keep bringing him on NBC Nightly News Thursdays and/or Fridays just to pimp out that Sunday morning trainwreck.
priscianus jr
Grayson knew (and knows) very well what he’s doing. He threw a hand grenade to attract attention. Not only does he not mind the Republican hissy fits, the whole strategy was predicated on that, which sets him up for strong comebacks. Now he has a “bully pulpit” to educate about health care, and people are paying attention. I have contributed to his campaign and I recommend everyone do the same.
http://www.actblue.com/page/standbygrayson