The race has now been called for Democrat Bill Owens.
This is a huge win for conservatives.
[….]I have said all along that the goal of activists must be to defeat Scozzafava. Doug Hoffman winning would just be gravy. A Hoffman win is not in the cards, but we did exactly what we set out to do — crush the establishment backed GOP candidate.
[….]For all intents and purposes, NY-23 is a trial run for Florida. And in Florida, the conservative candidate is operating inside the GOP. If John Cornyn and the NRSC do not want to see Florida go the way of NY-23, they better stand down.
How much more of Erickson’s bullshit is the Republican party going to take? The guy is quoted in Politico every freaking day now. Okay, so are Lanny Davis and Doug Schoen, so maybe that’s a bad example. But you see what I mean, right?
Royston Vasey
I’m sorry, but I can I just say….Boo Yakka! Oh yeah.
In the words of Nelson Muntz – “Ha, Ha”
As you were.
mikefromtexas
Look at the name he has to walk around with. His parents had a twisted sense of humor. Almost as bad as a family named Dick naming their son Richard. Might explain some of his issues.
General Winfield Stuck
The thrill of defeat
The agony of victory.
jwb
Let’s just hope they are just as successful in Florida. Are we sure that Erick isn’t a Democratic mole?
Jay C
Really; on a rational level, how much of it do they actually take, even now? I know that RS is the dirt-scraper of low-hanging-fruit for blogospheric mockery – every shrill bit of it richly earned many times over – but how much influence does this niche blog (their megalomaniac delusions of being the “Repubican Daily Kos” notwithstanding) exert over “Republicans” in the main? Probably not a lot…..
soonergrunt
Pop the popcorn and ice down the beer! This is gonna be fucking great!
McGeorge Bundy
Conservative candidate touted and slobbered over by national conservative Republican figures loses: huge win for conservatives!
Jesus Christ, what is wrong with these people?
Brick Oven Bill
This is good news for conservatives.
Mr Furious
Awesome. Pure 200-proof Awesome.
As an Obamabot, I could try and spin this as an endorsement of Nacy Pelosi, Barney Frank and communism, but I won’t. All this really means is rural, small-c conservative New Yorkers didn’t appreciate a bunch of assholes from Alaska and Texas telling them they aren’t pure enough Republicans.
On the plus side, it makes Sarah Palin look even more stupid—no easy task.
It also underscores the fact that no matter how much hype surrounds her as a GOP savior, when people actually step into the voting booth and draw the curtain—even in a Republican stronghold—they fucking flee. What’s even better?
Erickson, Palin and the national party still won’t get it.
GambitRF
This is good news for the The Rent is Too Damn High Party
http://rentistoodamnhigh.org/
Mark S.
Completely fucking insane. Had anyone outside of northern New York even heard of Scozzafava before this election?
I don’t think too highly of the brainpower over on the right side of the blogosphere, but now I can see why guys like Moran and Charles Johnson have lost their minds lately. Could you imagine being in a party with Erickson, Atlas Pam, and the dumber McCain? John got out just in time!
mk3872
Doug – I wonder, were you as critical of liberal activists like Hamsher or Markos M when they pushed liberal primary candidates against the likes of Joe Lieberman?
I hope that your indignation for political activism is only against those that you do not agree with …
NCReggie
well they can’t exactly admit to screwing the pooch can they? That they took a seat that hadn’t had a dem in 130 some years and lose? Yea so the night was full of win.
Linkmeister
Winning by losing is the new black. Or something.
I’d say he’s dumber than a box of rocks, but that would insult the rocks.
asiangrrlMN
Really. I thought I was just being snarky, but no. It really IS a win for the conservatives. Erick the son of Erick says so!
Mr Furious
Great title by the way, Doug.
MBSS
the republicans will now eat each other alive, like the capitalists on wall st, or the donner party. i hope they don’t forget a salt shaker.
Mr Furious
Twice. Because the title’s even better when you sing it?
asiangrrlMN
@mk3872: Begone, false equivalency!
GregB
See this is a win, win, win for the extreme far right of the GOP. A far rightwinger was elected in VA by running away from his far rightwing record, a fat guy beat a bald guy in NJ and the far rightwinger lost ot centrist Democrat in a congressional district that hasn’t gone for a Democrat since Rutherford B. Hayes was in office.
Brilliant!
-G
slag
Now this is what I call entertainment.
fraught
“For all indents and porpoises,…”
Comrade Dread
Step 1: Get rid of moderate party members in moderate districts. Replace with hard right, Beck approved Tea Partier
Step 2: Lose elections to Democrats
Step 3: Big win for GOP!
My head hurts from trying to follow this logic.
slag
Also, allow me to point out that BOB made a funny joke. Good on you, BOB.
Mr Furious
Let me venture a guess…
DougJ (and Markos, et al) didn’t try to pretend Lamont losing was somehow akin to a World Series sweep.
belae
mk2872 Net root pushing for primary for Lieberman was completely different, since CT are pretty liberal, and they should not be represented by a Lieberman, rather by someone like Whitehouse, or Dodd. Markos and rest of netroot are pretty understanding of moderate dem from purple/red state/areas, it is the blue dogs from reliable liberal area that bugs them, or when blud dogs talk down Dem just for sake of making news.
belae
Ed in NJ
Scouring the wingnut blogs this evening the theme is clear: winning two local governor races = good news for potential future congressional races, losing two actual congressional races = irrelevant.
MBSS
@mk3872:
some merit there, but hoffman is such a carpet bagging, ignoramus that it’s not really an apropos comparison.
General Winfield Stuck
Associated Press
And so it begins.
New Yorker
Man, my schadenfreude meter has gone all Nigel Tufnel and is pegged at 11. It’s just absolutely delicious that a district full of Sarah Palin’s mythical “Real Americans” would go tell the airhead beauty queen to go eat shit and die.
I love New York. The whole state.
MBSS
@fraught:
“For all indents and porpoises,…”
hasn’t there been enough dolphin slaughter?
Comrade Darkness
@Mark S.: Exactly. Another thing to laugh at is all the calls for political do-over in 2010. 2010, when none of these people will even remember the fightin’ 23rd, let alone care. Sheesh.
Mark S.
@mk3872:
There’s also a difference in doing this in a primary and doing it in a general election.
evie
Bizarro world. As hard as the NJ defeat is to take, NY23 hopefully says more about the country, to say nothing of Democrats. Hoffman is winger who knows nothing about his district; voters rallied in the last few days for the only sane person left.
MBSS
@ doug j
i think it was you who recommended truffaut movies to me a while back. just saw “the last metro” today. he is a great director.
parksideq
If Club For Growth, FreedomWorks, etc., pull the same stunt in the 2010 GOP primaries that they just did in NY-23, well, I think we just saw how that story will likely end.
Man, their strategy didn’t even work in the one area of the state that it could have. What makes them think it’ll be any more successful nationwide? Not that I’ll stop them from trying of course; it’s just that I read somewhere that the classic definition if insanity is “doing the same thing repeatedly and hoping for different results”.
2010 will not be 1994; the Dems will retain control of Congress even though we’ll probably lose seats here and there. You can quote me on that.
JGabriel
mk3872:
I think your confusing “indignation” with “amused disdain”.
.
McGeorge Bundy
@General Winfield Stuck: Two for two, a humongous sweep!
I honestly do not like these people. Fuck Ron Fournier and fuck the AP.
gocart mozart
@GambitRF:
F’N awesome!
DougJ
Doug – I wonder, were you as critical of liberal activists like Hamsher or Markos M when they pushed liberal primary candidates against the likes of Joe Lieberman?
I don’t think that’s a very apt comparison here, given that Hoffman was a third-party candidate.
parksideq
@New Yorker:
As someone who’s lived everywhere from Kingston to Ithaca to Poughkeepsie to Brooklyn, I concur.
PeakVT
I really hope that Florida is where the teabaggers focus their efforts, though it would be amusing if they focused on Arizona.
S
There’s a funny post on NY-23 at Hotair where Allahpundit claims that the race is both “The big one” (in the title caption, before the call was made) and “disappointing but it’s a detail on an otherwise great night” (after it was clear that the teabagger lost).
DougJ
And, even so, if Hamsher and Markos had declared Lamont’s loss a victory, I would heaped all kinds of scorn on them, yes.
Comrade Darkness
@MBSS: Merit? Primarying is fair game. Third party spoiler is fair game. If you are the main party candidate and your message fails to resonate because you are a rotting incumbent term-limit poster child emboldened to vested interests far outside your constituency that’s your own damn problem. What we are discussing is whether it is a politically strategic in all cases. The answer is, it varies.
This guy is just trolling the same, dems are supposed to be weak and not enjoy victory crap.
IndyLib
@General Winfield Stuck
Jesus Christ on raisin toast, I’m going to have to stay away from the MSM, with the exception of Rachel and Keith for awhile.
And behold the front page of the “liberal” Washington Post. Headlines about the two Gov. races and no mention of NY23.
FTWP (Fuck the Washington Post).
MBSS
i’m really getting into godard as well now. also, i saw this movie by milos foreman, “loves of a blonde,” that is compulsory viewing for any film aficionado.
S
There’s a funny post on NY-23 at Hotair where Allahpundit claims that the race is both “The big one” (in the title caption, before the call was made) and “disappointing but it’s a detail on an otherwise great night” (after it was clear that the winger lost).
sloan
Will Republican black widow Sarah Palin help us turn more red states blue in 2010? You betcha!
And I’m starting to believe teabaggers might be dumb enough to throw the 2012 presidential election just to piss off the GOP.
Who will be their Ross Perot?
Reason60
Taking a safe GOP seat that has never elected a Dem, and delivering it into Dem hands. The only candidate who Palin campaigned for lost.
Shrinking the party will lead to victory!
Failure is success!
Freedom is slavery!
If I were a Dem strategist, I would be slavering over the upcoming events in Florida.
parksideq
@PeakVT: Per the Wall Street Journal, Charlie Crist is about to face a deluge of attacks from the right.
eemom
At least New Jersey makes it less mortifying to live in Virginia.
There is that.
btw, just so everyone knows, I’m a New Yawkah by birth. How I got here I haven’t a clue.
gocart mozart
I saw “Mon Oncle” by Jacques Tati the other day. One of the greatest movies ever.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050706/
MBSS
@Comrade Darkness:
oh, i have no problem with 3rd parties at all. indeed, i give them my support.
the “merit” refers to the comparison between a guy like hoffman, and the type of challengers preferred by dems last year. i said the comparison only had some merit because the dems were smart enough to put forward more reputable derailers.
NCReggie
2010 looks a lot better now with these TP loons calling the shots. And how long does Steele last as head of the RNC now that Erick the Red has his first ‘victory’?
lt shinysides
Forget party spin, didn’t the locals up there just decide that:
1. Hey this guys is not really from here
2. He has no fucking clue about any of our local concerns
Isn’t that the real/non-cable news case?
Forget ideology, i think these new yorkers looked at their choices and made the only sensible, non-wingnut choice they had.
This race means nothing nationally. I am actually sad, from a dirty hippie perspective, that hoffman did not win. I sort of wanted teabag primaries nation-wide in 2010(fingers crossed that it still happens. Good luck Mr. Crist).
And I have always wanted to say this on the blog: the NY-23 result has got to be good news for John McCain. Overused?
New Yorker
I may not have lived in as many places in the state, but I’ve been to all three Dinosaur Barbecues!
The one in Manhattan is my least favorite.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I wandered over to RedNeckState a bit ago and read that and the comments, which were hilarious (from a purity POV). These idiots want iron-fisted national/party rules, platform and candidates at the local level, taking away ‘local control’ from the locals. Isn’t this one of the constant worries of theirs regarding the government and Democrats they despise, that ‘local control’ would be lost?
They are against what they are for and they are for what they are against, winning is losing and losing is winning and with this wisdom in hand they expect everything to come up roses for them. Bullshit is good for roses but first you have to plant the roses.
Then you have to be careful not to smother them with too much bullshit. I don’t think there will be flowers this next spring but I can safely forecast that there are going to be plenty of weeds, the bullshit is too fresh and too heavy.
jl
Lamont a third party extremist wingnut? wha? Sorry, that is just silly.
I’m more frightened of what people like Gingrich, Romney, etc. will do if they were running the show. They can long enough in public to pass as sane, and as a result, mislead mass quantities of voters.
I would perfer the GOP return to some sanity, but if they cannot do that, I prefer people like Erikson, Palin, Bachmann, Limbaugh and Beck running the show.
Will there our liberal media will mention of CA 10? I am not a big Garamendi fan,but I think he will be a strong champion of some important progressive causes. His opponent is more of standard competitive seemingly sane anti-tax GOPer. CA-10 used to regularly elect nasty hardass Republicans. Tauscher’s first victory was not assured at all, and her conservative/DLC type Democratic cred was considered essential for victory.
Now, Garamendi, a far more liberal candidate than Tauscher is up over his anti-tax deficit super-hawk GOPer opponent Harmer by 16% (56% to 40%) with over 25% of precincts reporting.
I’ll take that over a weird upset caused by weird circumstances in NY-23 any day.
ondioline
I really loathe losing NJ, but incumbents suffer during recessions (and governors even more than other officeholders), and Jon “Goldman Sachs” Corzine isn’t exactly the ideal candidate for such a time, so whatevs.
But this NY loss (and the mad spinning by Erickson) is just beautiful. It’s a direct poke in the eye to all the lunatics, fundies, con artists, and haters on the right — Beck, Palin, Fred Fucking Thompson, Cock Army, the Manatee, etc., etc.
And they’re gonna get even weirder and angrier now.
Hold on tight.
jl
meant to type:
They (Gingrich et al) can maintain (ie, not wig out) long enough in public to pass as sane, and as a result, mislead mass quantities of voters.
MBSS
@lt shinysides:
1. Hey this guys is not really from here
2. He has no fucking clue about any of our local concerns
i would tend to agree with this line of thought.
MBSS
@gocart mozart:
I saw “Mon Oncle” by Jacques Tati the other day. One of the greatest movies ever.
thnx for that rec.
ondioline
@gocart mozart: Lawrence, is that you?
Mr Furious
I thought I read that Hoffman’s home was gerrymandered out of the district a few years ago, but is actually a longtime resident of the area…and at one time actually lived in the district.
That said…”Ha-Ha!”
Cain
Hows things looking in Main?
cain
jl
But, I hasten to add, I WILL take Owens in NY-23. That is good news from the electorate.
As for Gubernators, weird stuff happens where, witness Ventura and Arnold. Not too concerned about them for an off-year election.
lt shinysides
Let’s get serious about NY23:
Hoffman was obviously a ringer of “Spearchucker Jones” proportions (haters go watch Altman’s “Mash” for reference). Why this race became ground zero for the life or death of conservatism and/or liberalism evades me. I have a special problem with the idea that a Democratic win in this district, no matter who the opposition, is some sort of win for better governance or better health care or whatever. That guy owens is to the right of Bush Sr., so as a liberal, I wonder how this horse race thing moves anything down the road, policy-wise. Somebody wiser please enlighten me, I am new here…
Splitting Image
The yes vote appears to have won in Maine. Fuck.
As I said in the other thread, Maine is probably a good test of how well progressives will be able to push an agenda past Republican obstruction, and the answer is that more effort will probably be needed than they were able to put out tonight.
Oh well, in the long run, I agree with Howard Dean about NY-23. If the nutcases who supported Hoffman are able to do to the Republicans what the Canadian Reform party did to the Progressive Conservatives between ’89 and ’93, you’re looking at over a decade of Democratic dominance and about 16 years before these idiots realize how badly they screwed up and make themselves into a reasonable party again.
lt shinysides
@Splitting Image:
Yeah that Maine vote sucks. Seems to be a pattern, the votes from urban centers comes in, and you spirits rise. Then, the rural vote…. shit.
I come from rural Ohio, so this is not just flyover bashing, but, god-damn, there have to be liberal farmers, right?
MBSS
i thought corzine might squeak it out. how much did he lose by?
PeakVT
@parksideq: They’ve been talking about it for a while; it’s good that they are going to follow through. Florida will eat the cash that could have been put into a general election candidate.
raholco
Erick the Red was going to say that NY-23 was going to be good news for “conservatives” no matter WHO won.
Besides, odds are that that district will disappear with the realignment coming via the Census. Now what ought to scare folks is that the South will pick up seats which will lead to more “conservative” opportunities to make mischief.
The reality is that those ‘conservative’ standard-bearers are too cheap and stupid to start their own third party (think of the rip-roaring success of the gliberterians) and are willing to destroy the GOP in the process.
Unfortunately, someone beat me to the palinbachman2012.org domain. Damn.
gocart mozart
@MBSS:
Your welcome.
Here is a review by RogerEbert.
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030608/REVIEWS08/306080301/1023
Martin
@lt shinysides:
Long term: if Owens becomes popular in the district, then future Democrats of any stripe become more palatable.
Short term: it’s another vote in the house for the Dems. Not on everything, but likely on enough things, and if he rides incumbency in 2010, it’s one more seat the Dems can afford to lose elsewhere and stay in power. That’s the rub with how power works in Congress – bad seats are still valuable if it puts you in the Speakers/Majority Leaders seat.
Anoniminous
DougJ:
This is not bullshit. This is pearls of wisdom given from upon high from the Lord God his little old self.
The success of the Tea Baggers in NY-23 should encourage True Conservatives to primary every single RINO in every single state. They should force these traitors to either kneel unto to the Limpblah or be forced out of their position so a True Conservative can ride to ….
Well, absolute disaster but … what the hey!
The death of the Republican Party upon a Cross of Conservative Correctness is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
FlipYrWhig
Erick Erickson = Irk Irksome
Gaucho Politico
@lt shinysides:
Oh to democrats or liberals it really shouldnt mean anything. The left is not under the impression that this was about the affirmation of deeply held classic liberal traditions or ideas. this was purely about a carpet bagger who was totally out of sync with the voters and any issues of salience. He was bad even as a carpet bagger.
As for policy implications, he is a blue dog. He will join that caucus and generally obstruct liberal legislation. As for policy running challenger candidates, the left picks people who are generally in sync with the primary electorate and have a shot at winning a district. Would Lamont have lost straight up with Joe out of the race? Probably not. I believe current polls show some buyers remorse by the Conn. voters at this point too.
I dont think that liberals will have trouble acknowledging that owens isnt liberal and that a sane republican would have won.
Of Bugs and Books
From Erickson:
“Were we to combine Scozzafava and Hoffman’s votes, Hoffman would have won.”
After saying:
“what we set out to do — crush the establishment backed GOP candidate.”
Does he think the two candidates’ supporters are on the same side or not?
lt shinysides
@Martin:
There you go, I can accept that.
It is funny: my need for a great Bernie Sanders/Russ Feingold perfect hybrid existing in Congress reveals my own prejudice towards a “pure” candidate. I guess I now align with the teabaggers.
At least i now have something to talk about with the bill o’reilly impersonation that is my father at thanksgiving this year. You see? Moving to the right is effective!
MBSS
isn’t redstate based in fresno, ca?
my former home hell. i think that sums it up.
ds
People aren’t mentioning it, but in 2001 Dems also picked up the NJ and VA governor’s seats, both of which were previously held by Republicans.
This was right after 9/11, so the Republicans were already benefitting from the rally around the president effect, and they still lost.
Did it mean the end of Bush’s presidency? Did it lead to huge Democratic gains in 2002?
If the gasbags want to determine how popular Obama is, or what shape Democrats are in for 2010 they don’t have to parse local election results. There are these things called polls.
MBSS
actually they are in d.c.
i must be confusing them with another reactionary digi-rag.
MBSS
here is the critical part of erickson’s article, the only part that makes sense:
The race has now been called for Democrat Bill Owens.
This is a huge win for conservatives.
“Whaaaa. . . ?” you say.
the Whaaaa is spot on.
Allan
Erick Erickson (in his best Pee-Wee Herman voice):
I meant to do that.
Andy K
@Brick Oven Bill:
Seven-Slices-Of-Liberal-Arts-Pie Awesome!
Andy K
@GregB:
Grant. 1871. Ulysses Simpson Motherfuckin’ Grant!
MBSS
i thought the pizza man was banned
Mnemosyne
@mk3872:
One eensy-weensy difference — Lieberman lost the primary, unlike Hoffman or Scozzafava. Remember? He then ran as a third-party candidate. He caucuses with the Democrats, but his part is “Connecticut for Lieberman.”
burnspbesq
This whole thing would be a lot more amusing if it weren’t for the possibility that these dick-heads might someday be our Gubmint.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: Ahh I love the smell of false equivalence in the evening. Especially since really these elections told up bupkess about 2010 or American opinion of Obama. Of course the teabaggers need something to latch onto because they cannot fail, they can only be failed.
burnspbesq
@Martin:
New York is going to lose House seats after the 2010 census. Whether Owens has a future depends on which party controls the redistricting process.
Mnemosyne
@Splitting Image:
This occurred to me while we were having our little election here in California last year, and I suspect it came into play in Maine as well: you confuse the fuck out of people by asking them to vote “no” on something they might be in favor of. The voters of Washington state were asked to vote “yes” to vastly expanding the legal rights of gay couples, and they apparently did. God knows that I got confused a few times because I was supposed to vote “no” if I was in favor of gay marriage, and I have a frickin’ IQ of 130 and was following the race closely. Lower-information voters might have voted the wrong way without meaning to.
I don’t know, maybe I’m grasping at straws, but it really was hard to keep straight in California whether you were supposed to vote “no” if you were in favor of gay marriage or “yes” if you were against it, and I suspect it was in Maine as well.
burnspbesq
@eemom:
As one who has lived in both states, I have to say “oh, puh-leeeze.”
201 fa life!
Mnemosyne
Oh, and not to continue tooting my own horn, but pretty much none of these results (except Maine) were a surprise to me. You mean that if a Democrat distances himself from a popular Democratic president, he’s going to lose? Gee, that’s a shock. You mean that when a Democratic governor who already has a terrible approval rating runs campaign commercials accusing his opponent of being fat, he’s going to lose the race? Again, not really a surprise. Winner of the Republican primary is forced out of the race by a third-party candidate and the Democrat wins instead? I can’t believe I was the only person who realized that forcing the primary winner out of the race was going to royally piss off the Republicans who’d voted for her in that primary.
ds
He didn’t. That’s just an example of the NY Time’s incredibly shoddy journalism.
He ran an ad accusing Cristie of “throwing his weight around as U.S. Attorney” to get out of punishment for traffic violations. Is it possible that it was a subtle fat joke? Sure, but it’s not the most obvious interpretation. Watch the ad on Corzine’s web site if you want.
Corzine losing is no big surprise. His approval has been in the gutter since before Obama was even elected, so you can hardly portray his loss as a reaction to Obama’s soshulism, or whatever the current CW is. Democrats were trying to get him to drop out of the reelection race a year ago.
The polls only tightened when a third party candidate Daggett rose in profile, and sucked up a lot of the anti-incumbent vote. On election day his supporters realized Daggett was going to lose so they voted Cristie.
The Maine loss is fucked up, but no big surprise. The polls were extremely tight, and what we’ve seen in several of these initiatives involving gay rights is that there is a small bloc of voters who oppose gay rights but are too polite to tell the pollsters so.
Until we have a race where the pro-gay marriage side is leading by 5% or so, there’s not going to be a victory.
Sly
A lot. That’s my hope, at least.
But they won’t, and really haven’t, taken any. TBs are the right’s equivalent of the LaRouchites. Forever yowling incoherent nonsense at the back of a crowd to make themselves look bigger than they actually are.
It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that the two groups protest together.
Andre
This is kind of like Alien vs Predator IV:
“Whoever loses, we win.”
ds
I’m starting to think that the Club For Growth is a front group funded by George Soros.
The Repubs actually have a pretty effective strategy where they run candidates who sound reasonable and moderate, and thus get all sorts of local endorsements and then nonetheless vote with their party 99% of the time, (except for a few months before the election, where they bust out their independent streak).
It works out well for the unabashed crazy right wing of the party.
The problem with this strategy, as far as I see it, is that the crazed wingers don’t just want power, they want affirmation.
Notice all the excitement around Sarah Palin based on the idea that she’s “ONE OF US.” They think that the mean liberal elites are constantly mocking them, so they take moderate posturing as a personal affront, rather than the obvious truth that it’s an attempt to appeal to an electorate that is broader than angry white conservatives.
Jason Bylinowski
@ds: I agree with that assessment. And I also tend not to worry about these results. Ten years from now it’ll all just be water under the bridge, as the gay rights movement now has so much exposure that it really can’t do anything but succeed.
Even though I’ve always been a liberal, not so long ago I had quite a homophobic streak in me simply due to lack of exposure to the gay experience. But then I got married, & since my wife’s best friend is gay, it was only a matter of time until I figured out that being gay is just another condition of humanity, seemingly strange from an outsider’s POV but in the end perfectly valid. Of course there’s always going to be resistance to this idea (as long as Southern Baptists and Mormons exist), but their position is looking increasingly irrelevant as time marches on.
Happy about NY-23 though, that’s really great, although I think I’ll be disappointed in the media coverage tomorrow. The narrative is already being etched in stone that this was big night for the GOP. NY-23 became a non-story as soon as they called it for Owens.
gnomedad
@Brick Oven Bill:
DougJ is slipping; his troll alias is not supposed to use irony.
JGabriel
Andre:
The Republican Party as a straight-to-video Z-grade horror flick?
Makes sense to me.
.
bernini
@ds:
the implied Jack Handy reference is spot on.
Dream On
I was going to joke “this is excellent news for conservatives” – but some nut in the headlines beat me to it.
My parody powers are useless.
calipygian
The odious Mark Steyn at K-Lo’s House of Crazy is actually almost correct:
Obama SHOULD push on a maximalist health plan RIGHT NOW.
Napoleon
@Mr Furious:
I am a huge Beatles fan and the title went over my head initially (before my first 2 cups of coffee). It is a great title and I will have that song in my head the rest of the day.
Napoleon
@lt shinysides:
Policy wise I think it could help. Assuming that a certain portion of people like Owens have substantially more progressive views then they run on then by building up a margin of them gives you more room for some of them to peal off from the DLC/Blue Dog line and vote with the progressives every once and a while without any one of them needing to build up much of an attachable progressive voting record. In other words it lets the Dems run their own version of the “catch and release” program the Reps ran from 94 to 06.
On a tactical level it ties up Rep resources trying to get a seat back that they could be using to pick off Dems that truely are on the bubble.
Shalimar
In other news, radio personality Rush Limbaugh died of an accidental drug overdose Tuesday night while watching the returns.
“This is a huge win for conservatives”, said Redstate’s Erick Erickson. “Rush was getting older and losing relevance. Now his listeners can switch allegiances to Glenn Beck like real Americans did months ago.”
kommrade reproductive vigor
While Maine needs to go fuck itself, Ah reckon and I’m disappointed Dough Offman didn’t win, EE’s sadtastic attempt to rally the troops is making me larf.
Shalimar
And in non-fake news:
Why would they do this? If they stand down and let the nutso wing of the party get their way in Florida without a fight, then the entire leadership of the Republican party might as well resign and let Erickson run everything.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: There was no primary in NY-23, they apparently aren’t required in New York for special elections. The local party bosses hand-picked the person they thought had the best chances of winning the general. This is part of what set the tea-partiers off in the first place. So no one was upset because the person they had already voted for was forced out, but I think the results do provide evidence that the local guys know their district voters better than Erick Erickson does. Scozzafava was up in the polls until Erickson, Malkin and the rest started throwing shit against the wall.
Keith
Steve Doocy just had the most awesome argument evah a sec ago (paraphrasing here): ‘The big winner last night was Scott Rasmussen because he got the %s right on the NJ race. Rasmussen polls also show lower support for healthcare than the others, therefore maybe Obama’s going too far, too fast with healthcare reform?’
'Niques
@IndyLib: Same on Yahoo News and every other site I’ve been to this morning . . . after all the hype yesterday, no mention of NY-23 today. I guess we’re supposed to forget all the crap of last week . . . so Orwellian!
dave anderson
All predictions of peak wingnut have been premature— we ain’t seen nothing yet.
WereBear
If they’d left Scozzafava alone, she’d have won. Card check, gay marriage, and all. And I wouldn’t have been bummed about that, necessarily, because I’m with her on those issues.
The fact that a moderate R who has lived her whole life in the district, has relatives who also hold office here, and is known to the voters… would have been a walk, even with her “liberal” positions.
Voting for a Democrat is still a little foreign to much of this area.
But kudos for the Tea Party contingent, who managed it handily. Thanks, you bunch of hardliners. From their logic, President Kucinich would be a victory!
John S.
Pray for me Juicers — I have tolerate Doocy and Kilmeade at a charity event this weekend.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Keith: You misspelled Douche.
Napoleon
@John S.:
Wow, I hope the charity is going to end world hunger or cure cancer to make it worth the cost.
SiubhanDuinne
@John S.
You have not only my prayers but my deepest sympathy. Maybe there will be some compensating (unintentional, FSM willing) moments of humour to help get you through.
I have a job that frequently requires me to attend, and even organise, events at which many of the attendees are elected officials, media types, and various celebrities that under other circumstances I wouldn’t walk across the room to see. But one smiles, and nods politely, and (without actually agreeing) says agreeable things . . . .
kay
@WereBear:
It makes a lot more sense for them to elect a Democrat at the federal level, and Owens fits the district.
I have a GOP House member, and it’s horrible. All he does is oppose. He won in a special election and hasn’t been relevant (or heard from, really) since. He disappeared 20 minutes after he was elected. I assume he’s voting The Dogma, because the House Republicans march in lock-step, but I never hear his name.
Being in the minority sucks.
Upstate New Yorkers did the rational thing. They ignored the national media din pushing Hoffman and voted their own best interests.
PaulW
@Mr Furious:
DING DING DING! We have a winner!
Yes indeed, having Palin and the Beckheads (ooo rock band name!) charging in and backing a third-party candidate instead of, you know, showing support FOR YOUR OWN LOCAL PARTY’S SELECTION, tends to p-ss said local voters off.
Someone once said “all politics is local,” but I think it was a librul so he shouldn’t be believed.
It’s amazing how the Far Right wingnuts are trying to portray the GOP victories in Virginia and New Jersey as referenda on Obama, when both history has proven that’s never the case and when the exit polling is showing a majority of voters didn’t even consider Obama the issue when and how they voted. But then again, the Far Right hates Obama with a passion and wants to freak him and the Democrats into thinking OH NOES EVERYONE’S A FAR RIGHT CONSERVATIVE LET’S GIVE UP. Meanwhile voter identification as Republican has slipped to 20-27 percent depending on the poll and in the places where Teh Teabaggers pushed their own agenda (NY-23) that sh-t ain’t working. When will the MSM wake up and realize the Far Right narrative sucks rhino? Probably when Roger Ailes of Faux News gets thrown into jail on fraud charges…
JD Rhoades
So a Democrat wins a House seat that’s been Republican since the 19th century, after wingnut stars like Glenn Beck, Michelle Malkin, Sarah Palin and Tim Pawlenty throw their weight behind a teabagger third party candidate and drive the Republican nominee out of the race for being too liberal, and after Barack Obama gives his endorsement to the Democrat who eventually wins…
…and the night is reported as a huge setback for Obama and the Democrats because of two governor’s races.
MSNBC: The Republican victories Tuesday in Virginia and New Jersey are a setback for Obama as he struggles to overhaul the U.S. health care system, win passage of climate change legislation, and build political support for his handling of the war in Afghanistan.
Yes, because the governors of Virginia and New Jersey have so much power over those issues.
Liberal media, my ass.
El Cid
And just so you know (via Digby), when Democrats won odd-year elections in 2001 the establishmentarian media ignored it and did NOT declare that this meant America was against lord Bush Jr’s agenda.
INCLUDING THE SAME GOD-DAMNED NJ GOVERNOR’S RACES IN VIRGINIA AND NEW JERSEY.
So, when Democrats win 2 governors’ races in 2001, pffft, it’s fucking unimportant, who knows what this means, we must all follow Dear Leader into our bright Republican future.
And when Republicans win 2 governors’ races in 2009, OMG teh AMERICA HAS STOOD UP TO OBAMUNISM!!!!
Brian J
If the goal was to defeat Scozzafava all along, then sure he will reveal his ever growing list of pure candidates to run in every single district where the country where such a candidate doesn’t already hold the seat. Who is going to take down Peter King from Long Island? What about Jodi Rell of Connecticut? Is Bob Bennett from Utah on the list? (He probably already is, since Joe the Plumber is trying to help some woman unseat him from the right.) As someone said last night, Mark Kirk in Illinois is likely to be a target. What about Mary Bono in California? She won her seat by over 30 points, but she also supported climate change legislation, so she has to go…right?
In some ways, I could see how this might be good for conservatives, in their goal was to simply see if they had some sort of influence where they wanted to. But that wasn’t the goal, or at least not the primary one. Instead, they wanted to win. They came sort of close, and there could be many reasons that Hoffman lost, but the simple fact is that they will try to claim victory regardless of what happens each and every time. It’s not a logical thing to do.
El Cid
Oops, the missing link. And Digby.
El Cid
Oops, the missing link. And Digby.
El Cid
Oh. And the fact that the Democrats now have an even BIGGER majority in the House of Representatives means that AMERICA SUPPORTS THE CONSERVATEABAG AGENDA.
r€nato
Well, it’s already been said but I could not resist.
In what fucking universe is losing to the Democratic party a House seat that’s been GOP over the course of 3 centuries (19th, 20th, 21st) a ‘win’???
And where can I contribute to Red State? They are doing a bang-up job of electing Democrats…
r€nato
@kay: for what it’s worth, a House member who’s not in the majority party is pretty much worthless. They can do constituent services and that is about it.
Porlock Junior
@MBSS:
And if you like Mon Oncle, go for Mister Hulot’s Holiday. After that you will be (or won’t be, making this irrelevant) enough into Tati’s style to enjoy Play Time, a late work on which he personally lost a bundle of money, so don’t expect something that everyone will like. The movie requires a certain level of alertness, being loaded with trompe-l’oeil jokes, some of them as running jokes. If you catch them all on first viewing, you’ll have no trouble following The Saragossa Manuscript, which has nothing to do with Tati, and I just mention it because it needs to be mentioned often.
Backbencher
The big winner has to be Newt. I smell 1994 all over again.
zoe kentucky in pittsburgh
Actually, I think there is a really important point here– that for all their ranting and raving and big dollar mouthpieces the right-wing really can’t move the needle when it comes to elections. We fear the Tea Party-Limbaugh-Beck-Palinistas because they’re scary stupid morons, but when it comes down to it they get a lot more attention than they have earned a right to.
Let’s hope that the mainstream GOP takes this lesson and doesn’t lurch to the right thinking that is where they need to be to win. I’d personally like to see the right-wing loonies universally shamed and ignored by everyone, dems and GOP alike.
kay
@r€nato:
I’m really enjoying the win because voters in NY ignored media.
They were assigned their role, as at the vanguard of a media-invented revolution, and they wouldn’t play along.
Campbell Brown was haranguing the pundits who wouldn’t play with her this-is-a-referendum-on-Obama story last night: she had decided on the narrative, and she would not quit. Jeffrey Toobin, as usual, refused to be bullied into parroting his lines. They feed him his lines, but he often refuses to repeat them back. He may not be cut out for punditry.
Plus, any day decent people beat back creepy ghoul Dick Armey is a good day. I think all Americans can agree on that.
AkaDad
Hoffman losing was a slap in the face to Sarah Palin. Also.
Johnny Pez
Since Hoffman was simultaneously a teabagger and a carpetbagger, does that make him a teacarpetbagger?
kay
@AkaDad:
She’s just the tool. It was a slap in the face to all that outside “grassroots” money, and the media arm, FOX.
I was so pleased when Pawlenty went along. He got bullied, and then he got played. He’s unfit for office. God knows who’ll pull his strings on any given day. What a wimp.
r€nato
@kay:
yes, I too am fucking weary of this enthusiasm among the media to cast everything as a referendum on Obama. I guess they all want to be first to break the story that Obama is no longer popular. You know what they say, first they build you up then they tear you down.
I love Jeffrey Toobin. Sometimes I wonder how the hell he keeps his job at CNN. I guess being a sharp legal mind and being around sharp legal minds gives him a pretty strong bullshit detector which even resists the MSM reality distortion sphere.
Fulcanelli
@Brian J:
Anybody more whacked out and to the right of this clown should be euthanized with a shovel.
I believe there’s a provision in the pending health insurance reform bill that would cover such procedures in the public interest.
I hearby coin the phrase: “Anti-Logic”. It could be used when attempting to describe the mental process wingnuts perform when unsuccessfully attempting to interact with reality, sane people and the non-wingnut world at large.
Safety Tip: Do not try to comprehend it as it is highly unstable, a known toxin and may have a corrosive, lasting effect on healthy brain function and peace of mind. {insert Bio-hazard symbol here} Also.
Johnny Pez
And to paraphrase Erick the Dim: purging the moderate from the GOP was the real victory. Losing the seat to the Dems was just gravy.
Bill Arnold
kay –
It’s pathetic. Nearly all of the current Republican side of the House could be replaced with a simple count of “no” votes. For this they collect a salary?
Tim F.
@MBSS: John normally goes with up to a week in time out. Permabans are vanishingly rare here.
Shalimar
@AkaDad:
I would assume most Republican males are secretly into that sort of thing, so that too is a win for conservatism.
Comrade Dread
Maybe someone can explain the CW to me.
How is it that when the Republicans lose the only national office up for grabs and win two local statewide races with some non-crazy candidates this is good news for Republicans nationally?
Also, how is this a referendum on Obama when exit polls stated that voters said the president was not a factor?
hoi polloi
Erick, son of Erickson, Erickson’s secret plan is to ensure election of as many blue dogs as possible in order to drive the left insane. It just may work.
kay
@r€nato:
Toobin secured his place in pundit history when they were all raving about McCain’s “green screen” speech, looking at each other nervously for affirmation and approval, and he sat back and waited ten seconds and told the truth: “that was the worst speech I can remember”.
There was this mad rush to agree with him, because, of course, it was a terrible speech. He had given them “permission” to state the obvious.
They don’t have any confidence in their own impressions. It’s really common among the junior high set, this lemming-like behavior, but I would think professional tv people would have a little more spine.
How do they get those jobs? They’re paid so well, and it must be competitive, and they have no spine. I don’t get it. They must reward conformity in that industry.
hoi polloi
@mikefromtexas @2
My in-laws had a friend long ago whose parents in their infinite wisdom decided to name the newest member of the Dick clan Randall. I kid you not, their friend went by the name of Randy Dick. I have been known to accuse my in-laws of being urban legends.
El Cid
Erickk Erickkkkkson has now declared Glover Norquist and Americans for Tax Reform as potential anti-conservateabagger traitors.
GO ERCKKKKK !!!!! GET ‘EM !!!!!
kay
@Bill Arnold:
It’s not really working for him. My House member died suddenly, and “we” (not me) elected this man, and he’s fallen off the face of the map, because he takes orders well, and votes “no” on everything.
From a purely self-interested standpoint, voting for the lock-step opposition is just dumb. You’re irrelevant.
cleek
Tbogg wins the day with “Erick’s victory post may become the most ridiculed post ever. This is good news for Dan Riehl.”
Johnny Pez
@kay:
It’s called the Wrongness Doctrine. The more often you express opinions that turn out to be utter bullshit, the more highly respected you are and the better jobs you get. See Kristol, William.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@calipygian: What you said.
AkaDad
By saying this is bad for Obama and good for Conservatives, the Liberal media is clearly trying to hide their liberalism. They’re cunning and devious like that.
r€nato
@kay:
bingo.
kay
@Johnny Pez:
It gives me the creeps, because it goes against human nature, IMO. People have ego and opinions, and they usually (eventually) try to distinguish their opinion from The Consensus. This is my experience, anyway. They eventually gather their nerve and say “that’s not what just happened”.
Not pundits. They’re really, really susceptible to peer pressure.
Johnny Pez
@kay:
It’s because, mentally, they’re still in grade school. Digby has pointed this out several times.
SpotWeld
It will be interesting to see how much media play this gets.
Specifically, this is a case of a politcal party dividing itself to ensure its own defeat.
This is exactly what the hand-wringers were suggesting would happen is Hillary wasn’t chosen to the VP. It’s what everyone played up the PUMA movement to be (but it never was)
The GOP is splitting down its middle, is anyone going to talk about it?
Gus
@lt shinysides: Nope. If you ask me, “good news for John McCain” never gets old.
bago
Are you telling me that mister rocksalt lives here in DC?
Ash Can
@bago: I’ve been under the impression that the D.C. mailing address is just for show. It’s my understanding that Erickson is a Macon, GA city councilman, so that would make Macon the de facto HQ.
@El Cid: LOL! That’s beautiful. You said it — go get ’em, Erick! And hey, Erick, why don’t you check up on that Limbaugh guy’s countertops while you’re at it?
r€nato
Hey, the Great Powder Blue Satan linked to this post…
Frank
Erickson is thrilled that he got a warning track home run.
Steaming Pile
@Mr Furious: Joe Lieberman, while having been defeated in an actual Democratic primary, got elected anyway because Republicans threw their own candidate under the bus because sending Lieberman back to Washington was worth more to them.
In NY 23, the Palinites thought they could replace the more viable decaffeinated Republican (who would have won handily had the teabaggers left well enough alone) with a right-wing ideologue and still win, not taking into account that Scozzafava might try to screw them back on her way out. Call it a reverse Lieberman, or a double-decker karma sandwich, if you prefer.
r€nato
@Steaming Pile:
yep, the real winner I think was Dede Scozzafava! She ratfucked the GOP but good. I’d be sporting an ear-to-ear shit-eating grin for the rest of the month if I were her.
Nutella
Local commentary on this:
Gus
@El Cid: Awesome! I can’t help but be reminded of this from Catch-22.
Mike in NC
“Dede, the White House is on line one. Says his name is Rahm something…”
Mnemosyne
@Comrade Dread:
Because shut up, that’s why.
(Sorry, someone had to say it.)
Trinity
@El Cid: Awesome.
Svensker
@gocart mozart:
Yes, and it just gets better with age and more viewing.
Tropical Fats
I can imagine a Dr. Erick Erickson:
“You have an inoperable tumor and will die a slow, agonizing death. Clearly this is excellent news for you! High five!”
IndieTarheel
@Anoniminous:
I see what you did there. Nice.
Comrade Darkness
@Mike in NC: Funny you should mention that. From this article:
Loyalty, smoyalty. Or is it because she’s a woman . . . ? Republican women in NY get treated like dirt. I can think of a different Hoffmann as an example.
freepatriot
For all intents and purposes, NY-23 is a trial run for Florida ???
so the repuglitard plan is to LOSE florida ???
BRILLIANT !!!
rotflmao
Ed Drone
Oh, please, God, please! Go for it!
Please! Please! Please! Please! Please!
Ed
Please!
terry chay
@mk3872:
– Liberals primaried Lieberman out, this happened in the general.
– No evidence that the liberal netroots would have rooted for the conservative candidate had Lieberman won.
– In the general, liberal grass roots was for their party candidate (establishment backed Lieberman), here it is reversed: conservative grass roots against their party’s candidate (establishment backs their party until she pulls out).
– Lieberman’s opponents actually lived in the same district as the election.
– The bulk of Ned Lamon’s support came from in state, this is reverse of what happenned in NY-22.
These are not minor details.
whetstone
@calipygian:
Good catch, that’s about right. I’d also add that Virginia was a referendum on an unpopular incumbent as well, if not one as reviled as Corzine. Plus my understanding is that Deeds’s campaign sucked.
Steyn’s best point might be that the Scozzafava nomination might not have been the slickest idea, insofar as if they’d split the difference between moderates and teabaggers they probably would have won the seat.
SiubhanDuinne
@Comrade Darkness: At the end of the article, Scozzafava says that in time, her story will be told. I really hope she writes a book, or at least a lengthy article, about how the whole thing went down from her own perspective. The bits you (Comrade D) cited, about Pataki campaigning for Hoffman, and the phone calls she got from Schumer and Israel, are very telling — as much about just human decency as about the politics of it all. Boo hiss on Pataki. Yay huzzah for Schumer and Israel.
JenJen
If you want another chuckle, read Malkin’s searing NY-23 analysis, and how amazing it is that Hoffman came thisclose to beating the Democrat who was supposed to win anyway! Heh.
Onward! Upward! Rightward!
batgirl
@lt shinysides:
It’s not. You totally missed the point of following this race. It is about the Republican civil war and the push by the far right to purge the party of all moderates. Whether the Dem won or not, the point would be the same. In fact, most people did not think the Dem would win.
This race is a window into the future of the GOP and who will control it.
Comrade Darkness
@SiubhanDuinne: Pataki jumping on the teabegger bandwagon caught me by surprise. He’s holding out for a lot higher office and it was an ill-conceived moved. Hopefully the stain of it doesn’t come out of his suit on the first cleaning.
Tim I
Funniest headline, ever.
benjoya
Funniest headline, ever.
Actually, “It’s only a paper, Moon” was better, IMO.
Wile E. Quixote
@mk3872
Lamont versus Lieberman is different than Owens v. Scozzafava v. Hoffman because Ned Lamont actually lived in Connecticut, whereas
Doug Hoffman doesn’t even live in the district he was running to represent. Then there’s the matter of grassroots support. Lamont had significant grassroots support in Connecticut because voters were disgusted by Lieberman’s support of the war, so much so that Lamont won the Democratic primary against Lieberman. Hoffman had very little local support in NY23, his campaign was pure astroturf manufactured by Dick Armey and supported by Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty and a cast of thousands who don’t live anywhere near NY23, which is why Hoffman lost the election to Owens.