I can’t believe this shit is still going on:
Sen. Trent Lott berated both the Federal Emergency Management Agency and his own state’s emergency management, MEMA, for being mired in red tape at a time of urgent need given the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina.
Lott said he has been trying to get FEMA to send 20,000 trailers “sitting in Atlanta” to the Mississippi coast, and he urged President Bush during a meeting Monday to intervene. He said FEMA has refused to ship the trailers until contracts are secured.
“FEMA and MEMA need to be saying, ‘Yes’ to Mississippi’s needs, not, ‘No.,” the former majority leader said in a written statement.
“Mississippians are homeless, hungry and hurting.”
Similar stories of governmental red tape have been reported elsewhere, including a case of 100 surgeons and paramedics hindered from caring for hurricane victims in rural Mississippi.
People keep asking me about Mike Brown, whether I think he should go or not, and I personally have no love for the man. The problem is, I think people are under the impression that firing Mike Brown is going to fix this problem. People keep pointing fingers, as if this is a failure of one man- it isn’t. It is a failure of men, and it is a failure of governments caught with their pants down. What needs to be done is that this whole thing needs to be re-worked from the bottom up.
*** Update ***
Title of post edited for those who choose to ignore what I write in actual posts and apply mythic, evil, anti-government motivations to me based on the title of posts.
slide
John Cole:
I agree. We are looking at a systemic failure of government here. But let us not forget that after the poor performance of FEMA wiht hurrican Andrew under the first Bush adminstration and when Clinton came into office they made major changes to FEMA. They made FEMA a cabinet level agency. They hired true professionals. They funded it. (re-worked it from the bottom up). But then Bush II came into power and undid these improvements. Every report I have read from people that KNOW about FEMA said it was badly hampered from doing their job by Bush adminstration policy decions. Demoting FEMA’s status from cabinet level agency to a subordinate agency of the huge Homeland Security dept. And of course everyone knows by now, Bush decided to appoint a complete hack with no experience whatsover to run one of the most complex agencies requiring the coordination of multiple entities, to the head of FEMA
yeah, there was a huge failure here and some of it (SOME) can be attributed directly to the policy decisions of this adminstration. Policy decisions have consequences. Hopefully there will be accountability this time.
Oh, and firing Brown will not fix the problem granted, but leaders do symbolic gestures to send a message. Firing Brown will say, incompetence is not tolerated when so many lives are effected as a result of that incompetence. But we all know that BUSH rewards incompetence (i.e. Paul Bremmer, George Tenent, John Bolton, etc etc) so don’t hold your breat.
Brownie here is doing a great job.
John Cole
In other words. “I agree. B-b-b-b-ush!”
slide
Does Bush bear any responsibility for this:
or this:
So when you say government failed, do you think it had anything to do with the policy decisons of Bush? Or is your defense of this man just, “shit happens”?
John Cole
No, Joe, I certainly think that a shift in priorities exacerbated the response. I also realize that we are suffering from a number of different problems here. A failure to coordinate, a failure to follow through on planning, a failure to have adequate plans at the local level (and that isn’t just blaming the New Orleans and louisiana government, I doubt most states and regions are prepared to deal with this), and also, a failure in perspective.
Even if everything went fine, we would still be dealing with a disaster of unprecedented magnitude. There is no question that lives have been lost, but even with the best plans in place, there would still be thousands dead.
docG
John Cole says:
We just spent 4 years re-working the whole thing! To what effect? Katrina is proof positive that we cannot handle mass destruction in any kind of organized, effective manner. Hypothetically, suitcase nuclear bombs are detonated in L.A., Washington, and Chicago simultaneously. Is there ANYONE one the planet that thinks Homeland Security, FEMA, et. al could handle this possibility in any effective manner? Remember, its not IF another terrorist attack will happen, its WHEN another attack will happen.
9/11 was used as a pretext for profound revamping of the federal government. We are no safer, much poorer, and mired in a civil war in Iraq, the other major response to 9/11.
No, I don’t blame B-b-b-b-ush. Blame requires the capacity to accept responsibility, the potential ability to behave differently and effectively in a future problem situation, and a desire to admit failure and seek remedies. No, indeed. I don’t blame President Bush.
Jim Allen
And with those same “best laid plans” thousands more would still be alive.
slide
I agree and have said so. But what I don’t quite understand is that you say this was a failure of government (which I also agree with) but you fail to see that saying that is, in and of itself, an indictement Bush (as well as local officials). He is the head of the federal government. He has been in that position for five years. He has a Republican congress. His budget proposals get passed with little change. He gets to appoint the “people” that you say have failed us. Government isn’t some theoretical entity, government is the sum of its people, its budget priorities, its policies, its focus, and its leadership. Bush had a hand in all of those things. Doesn’t the buck EVER stop with this guy?
Bush was “hired” because he could protect us better than the other guy, we were told. Are we not allowed now to hold him to his promises? Can’t we expect, after 911, that out federal government could have done a better job? Bush once said that had he known of 911 in advance he, “would have moved heaven and earth” to protect the people in the twin towers. Did you see “heaven and earth” being moved prior to Friday when the proverbial political “shit” hit the fan?
slide
The lede of this thread is “The Problem with Government”.
the Republicans don’t like government. They have disdain for government. Republicans have said government is the problem not the solution. Republican anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist once said, “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” Congratulations Grover.
Does anyone wonder that government didn’t serve us well when we have this type of ideology in charge of government? When your core beliefs tell you that government is not the solution then its no surprise that political hacks, without any relevant experience, are appointed to positions charged with being solutions.
John Cole
You wonder why I don’t argue with you, and it is because of crap like this. Once again, you ‘divine’ my opinion, and then argue against some evil uber-Republican of your own god damned design.
I am not one of the Republicans who hates government, and I have, quite frequently, identified legitimate uses and reasons for the government. I think helping people in the time of disaster ‘rises’ to one of those occasions.
I don’t think this is “the problem with government.” I think this is a problem with bad government and I think this is a problem with bad execution of government on all levels.
I am done arguing with you. I am just ignoring you from here on out. You just make shit up, create strawmen at an alarming rate, and then use those strawmen to argue against your mythic prototype of the evil conservative that you have somehow decided I am.
Piss off.
– Cue Andrei, bemoaning my tone.
Don Surber
Hey John, read the Craig Martelle column in the Pitt P-G
Fire Mike Brown? Sheesh, bloggers are showing more ignorance with each passing day
By the way, Bush is doing a great job. 44% of the country blame him for everything. Truman had the same problem. Ditto Lincoln. Bush’s critics are banshees anymore
slide
whatever
John, where did you get I was talking about you? I was talking about those that are currently in power. This is about them, not you, as hard as that may be for you to understand.
Yeah, and thats what I said. Where is the straw man? and my point is we get BAD EXECUTION of government when we have people in power that fundamentally don’t believe in government.
Once again the post had NOTHING to do with you or your positions. What “shit” did I make up? What “strawman” did I argue against? Really John you are insufferable with your knee-jerk, egocentric defensiveness.
Vlad
John, I didn’t read Joe’s comment as an attempt to impose values on you. I think he was talking primarily about the Republicans who are currently driving the direction of the party. You can’t deny that the current administration has attempted to shift from the state of FEMA under Clinton, where the federal government was the big dog in any disaster situation, to a de-centralized model where local governments call more of the shots.
Under the old way of things, there would have been much less opportunity for an incompetent local official to de-rail the process (though I think the incompetence has been pretty evenly distributed in this one). It’s much easier to make sure that one moderately-sized federal agency has its shit together than it is to make sure of the same thing for 50 state-level organizations (more if you include DC and the territories).
slide
Surber:
I find no need to comment. Speaks for itself.
Narvy
Firing Mike Brown won’t fix the problem, but it could show that incompetence will not be tolerated (a first for this administration, he snarked), and it would open up the position to someone who might not botch his job.
Bush is not personally responsible for anything in this mess but his own behavior (which has not been exemplary), and he is not responsible for the terrible failures of Nagin and Blanco. As the President, however, he approved the hiring of Chertoff and Brown, oversaw the downgrading of FEMA, and did nothing – no pressure on LA state officials, no demands on DHS or FEMA – when it became obvious, or should have become obvious to the President, that things were not going well. Do you not think that these are responsibilities of the sitting President?
I suppose it’s redundant here to bring up Harry Truman’s slogan about where the buck stops, but what we get from this administration, whose Chief Executive has famously been unable to think of a single mistake in his administration, is “The buck stops there… no, there… wait, over there… well, anyway, not here.”
Narvy
Hey, Don Surber, read the last paragraph of my post above.
Don Surber
Narvy:
What exactly is the incompetence? FEMA is not the first responder. Local officials are. Firing Chertoff and Brown is like firing Bud Selig because the Yankees lost
I can think of many reasons for firing Selig. That one ain’t on my list
Don Surber
Narvy: Just read your reply. Bush takes responsibility for his action and his administration. Time for Mayor Crybaby and Governor Boo Boo to step up and admit they blew it
Parked school buses. Yup, it is Bush’s fault
Firing at helicopters. Yup, that is Bush’s fault
Levee braeks. Yup, it is Bush’s fault (by the way, levees broke on Clinton’s watch. I cannot imagine anyonee blaming him — although conserves still havce a few nutballs left from the ’60s)
Narvy
What happens when the first reponders don’t respond? Nobody does anything?
Narvy
Not very carefully, I think. I said: “Bush is not personally responsible for anything in this mess but his own behavior … and he is not responsible for the terrible failures of Nagin and Blanco.” What leads you to
slide
Surber’s got the Rove talking points:
This list of FEMA’s incompetence in this disaster is too long to list but if you are really interested you can go to this web site FEMA Failures. Enjoy.
Darrell
I think this kind of ignorance is prevalent on the left. Newsflash: State and local govts have ALWAYS been expected to be the first responders, even under Bill Clinton.
Darrell
Joe Albanese, why the hell did you change your handle to “slide” you dishonest moron?
Yes, evil genius Karl Rove put those talking points on the FEMA website:
Joe, do you finally see what a moron you are?
Narvy
What happens when the first responders don’t respond?
slide
Yes, but after 911, the bush adminstration came up with:
..
slide
Darrell, reading comprehension not one of your strong suits is it?
Darrell
Then the plan falls apart, doesn’t it as the most critical piece dropped the ball? If there would be a case of zero first response, then any responsible governor should cede all authority to the Feds, instead of fighting to keep control of everything as Blanco has clearly done.. evidenced by what went on with her fight to keep control over the National guard
Narvy
My understanding is that the President can pre-empt control by declaring martial law. Shouldn’t that have been done when Blanco didn’t act? (I’d appreciate it if you answered without name-calling.)
Jim Anchower
George W. Bush = Worst. President. Ever.
Americans who voted for Bush = Dumbest. Americans. Ever.
Americans who voted for Bush twice – should be neutered/spayed, hobbled and lobotomized.
capelza
I agree with you, John Cole, the whole thing does need to be reworked from the bottom up. If ANYTHING positive comes from this disaster it will be that.
But, I do think that Brown needs to go, not because his resignation or firing will be the improvement that will miraculously cure everything, but because this , let’s say, “tepid” response from FEMA was on his watch. The comments that have come out of his own mouth have shown how clueless the guy is.
Do any of you, in your heart of hearts, want THIS guy to be in charge when a disaster or terrorist attack comes that doesn’t give us days of warning? And please, the next time, it won’t be LA Democrats who drop the ball. It may well be one of our metropolis where the entire infrastructure is destroyed, including the mayor and anyone who would have been “in charge” as local responders are dead or missing.
Narvy
I must be slower than usual this morning. I overlooked this:
That’s it? No contingency plan? “[T]he most critical piece drop[s] the ball” and and the federal government looks on helplessly?
Demdude
I would like to ask a plain question here, if that is possible. ( And for full disclosure it was posted on KOS.) I’m just looking for information.
The question was to the effect that we currently have Federal Troops in NO & LA. At what point were they legally allowed to enter the state? If they need the Governor’s permission to enter the state, when was it given? Did Pres Bush invoke some statute to allow him to do it?
If you have any links to that information, it it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Slide
Fire Michael Brown? The chorus is growing. this seems to make sense to me:
.
Tractarian
Mr. Cole, I do not believe that slide’s “evil conservative” (as you put it) is a strawman argument. There are those out there who do not believe, for one reason or another, that the government is capable or should be expected to save people in the wake of a disaster.
Take Bill O’Reilly for example (my emphasis):
Newt Gingrich’s wise response:
Sure, most conservatives recognize that, if government has any responsibility at all, it is to ensure public safety, especially at times of crisis. But to people like O’Reilly, the main lesson to be learned from Katrina is simple: if you don’t own a car, it’s your fault, so you’re on your own – and don’t expect any help from the rest of us.
ppGaz
I think you are under the false impression that you fire a guy like Brown in order to “fix the problem.”
You fire him because he deserves to be fired, for crissake.
You fire him because people need to see that feckless incompetance isn’t being tolerated.
You are dead wrong. Brown should be fired.
Tractarian
From Wikipedia (emphasis added):
There’s nothing here that explicitly answers the question, but it seems apparent to me that the governor’s authorization is not necessary for the president to order troops to enter a disaster area.
skip
You can rationalize all you want but still be left with the overriding question of accountability. What would it take to move this President to fire somebody? What would it take for him to admit something isn’t working?
To paraphrase Thurgood Marshall, “if you inserted the collected brain trust of this administration into the head of the duck, the bird would would fly backwards forever and ever.”
Demdude
Tractarian
Thank you for your response.
ppGaz
Skip, excellent post. You have it exactly, precisely right.
ppGaz
Brown will not be fired from FEMA, which is now the laughingstock of the entire world, for the same reason that Darrell won’t be fired from Balloon-Juice:
He’s doing a “heckuva job.”
ppGaz
Just noticed that.
In case anyone was wondering where to go for that kind of critical decision, now you know.
Davebo
“What would it take to move this President to fire somebody?”
Ask Paul Oneil or Gen. Shinseki
“What would it take for him to admit something isn’t working?”
That we may never know.
Tractarian
From the “he really said that” column, I present Don Surber:
Narvy
Tractarian, take alook at my conversation with Don Surber upthread, here and here. He seems to have some sort of attention or comprehension disorder.
Avedon
I think the comprehension problem some of your readers are having has to do with the fact that the phrase “failure of men” suggests it is a problem of these particular men – which it is. And these particular men are, you know, all the president’s men. So when you write:
People keep pointing fingers, as if this is a failure of one man- it isn’t. It is a failure of men
there is a bit of a contradiction. I don’t know if Brown is doing what his boss hired him for or not, but I do know who his boss is. Ultimately, it’s a failure of one man, and that man’s name, I’m afraid, is Bush.
Just Some Guy
Did anyone else catch that the person John quoted — Trent Lott, reknowned partisan Deomcrat — is the one who is saying that FEMA is mismanaging resources in Mississippi? Nagin and Blanco have alot to answer for, but they have nothing to do with Mississippi.
ppGaz
Uh, oh! Breach of security! Bush has been bashed.
Darrell! Better get on this pronto.
slide
Yes, I caught that too and he was just a day or two ago so forgiving of the federal government. Guess his “constituants” may have told him a thing or two. Its also interesting that Senator Mary Landrieu who Anderson Cooper beat up on a bit has changed her tune as of late. She was very very careful not to say a negative thing about Bush and company initially, thanking him profusely etc… but on ABC’s George Stephonopolous’s show she was ready to ‘punch someone in the nose”.
As time goes on, and more of what happened is brought to light, there will be fewer and fewer apologists left until we are left with Stormy, Darrell and of course John (I’m not an apologist) Cole.
ppGaz
That’s right.
The “Buck Stops Here” sign was taken down from the Oval Office a long time ago.
Obsolete. No longer applies.
Now we have Mr. Rove and the “Office of Re-Vectoring of the Buck” which is working 24 by 7 as we speak to make sure that the little emperor is not tarnished by all this unpleasant business.
EL
I think people are under the impression that firing Mike Brown is going to fix this problem.
It isn’t, agreed. But it will do a few things:
Make it clear that someone will not be kept in a job they aren’t up to.
Make room for a disaster management professional who might be able to improve things somewhat.
My suggestion, (which I realize will be ignored) is for Bush and Blanco to agree to put James Lee Witt in charge of the whole thing. He has the credentials, a good reputation, and the FEMA ‘grunts’ are going to be comfortable with him.
Brown is way over his head. He appears not to understand the first principles of disaster management (you have your own people gathering information on the ground, you send people to areas you aren’t hearing from because it probably means their communications are out. You don’t assume that if they don’t ask for help, they don’t need it.
slide
As we all know the ROVE strategy is to put the blame on the local authorites. The willing Rovian Soldiers are doing their part blaming the Governor of LA, the Mayor of NO, and the poor citizens that stayed behind. But this shows that a lot of the local failure was CAUSED by FEMA. Read the whole thing it and if it doesn’t raise your blood pressure by 10 points you are not human. The website I linked to has all the links for each story of incompetence cited.
Yeah, its all the local’s fault.
jobiuspublius
Pink Floyd – The Wall
Blame the victim at it’s finest. He does have some wiggle room to keep rubbing his forehead, he said a huge bureaucratic government. Then he goes on to say that the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina should be taught in every American school. And around and around he goes. It’s interesting how Katrina has basically swamped O’Really. This is the first I have heard of him since the hurricane came to the scene.
jobiuspublius
Oh, I forgot to mention how O’Really seems to be such an expert in child psycology, especially child shock treatment.
ppGaz
That’s right, and if that happens, well, then fuck you. You were warned.
Or, as Babs Bush might say, “Most of these people were underprivileged anyway, so they might be better off dead.”
“Underprivileged” — deprived due to social or economic circumstances of some of the fundamental rights of all members of a civilized society.
— Websters New Collegiate Dictionary
Tim F
You are simply wrong about that. From FEMA’s own website:
Some disasters will overswhelm local resources. That is why FEMA exists. In a fair world people trying to pretend otherwise would carry around a scarlet ‘H’ to commemorate their hackness.
jobiuspublius
Lol. Days ago, or so it seems, as the Nagin and Blanco scapegoating got started, I asked about MS, AL, and FL. Good to see I was somewhat prescient. Bad to see I forgot about my own questions. Doh on me.
Jimmy Jazz
I agree. Give Brownie the Medal of Freedom! We can have a celebratory Arabian horse parade down the middle of Canal Street once the bloated corpses of the untermenchen are safely disposed of.
Tim F
New Orleans will demand an investment by the government of unprecedented proportions. Think for a minute about how well the contracting thing is going in iraq. Catastrophic fraud, incompetence, waste and patronage hiring spring to mind.
Jesus wept.
ppGaz
And if you are old, senile, overdue for dialysis, mentally ill, diabetic and an amputee, if you are helpless …. if you have been laid off, if your factory shut down and you have run out of benefits, well, heh, fuck you too. We have no particular plan to help you cope with life’s little emergencies.
We report, you decide! — FoxNEWS
slide
Tim F to Darrell:
Good luck Tim. Trying to explain things to Darrell is similiar to teaching quantum physics to a grapefruit. I have shown him on numerous occasions the respnosibilities of the Federal Government through Homeland Security and FEMA when you have a disaster of this magnitude. It makes no difference. A true Kool-aid drinker is Darrell. He’s got his marching orders from Rove and he will stick by them no matter what. Facts be damned.
slide
How much you wanna bet that Joseph Allbaugh (Michael Brown’s roomate in college) gets a piece of the pie? He’s already got a piece of the Iraq reconstruction pie. This is a major league opportunity for the Republicans to make some real coin. Halliburton ALREADY has a contract.
This has to be the most corrupt and venal adminstration in recent memory. We are all now paying the price of their croynism by having that hack Brownie running FEMA.
Steve
I have to agree that getting rid of Mike Brown won’t solve the problem. Because Bush is still President and he’s free to appoint an even more incompetent n00b in his stead.
At this point it’s pretty clear that Clinton would have responded to this whole thing a lot better than Bush has. But then that’s because Bush isn’t a leader… He has to be told what to do to pretend to look like a leader.
Andrei
Hunh? Wha? Nope.. not me. I’m the new improved Andrei. Although I would say you were doing seemingly fine until the “piss off” comment. Ah well.
I will say however that I disagree with you when you say:
As slide pointed out, it was reworked from the bottom up. That was the whole purpose of the reorgnaziation of FEMA into Homeland Security amoung other things. The problem needs to be reworked from the top down this time, imho.
I agree with you this is a failure of men, but I tend to be more alpha male and military in my way of thinking about leadership. I tend to focus on the ones in charge at the top to fix things, not the ones in charge at the bottom. Especially in this particular case where it appears the scope and sheer size of the disaster was overwhelming for state and local officals.
Don
I don’t get the point here. Is anyone really saying that everyone but Brownie is perfect and if he’d just call in sick the rest of the team could Get It Done?
Is it a shock to “the party of business” that when it all goes to shit you replace the CEO?
Tim F
No. People are saying that he fucked up royally and deserves to be fired. Time will show that other people fucked just as grandly and also will deserve to be fired. It baffles me how difficult it can be to comprehend this simple point.
Tim F
Don, I might have misinterpreted the perspective from which you asked the question. If I did then disregard.
Don
Tim – yeah, I was responding to John’s original post.
MB’s clearly not competent to do the job. Nobody sane is saying he needs to be filling sandbags himself but he needs to be picking people who respond to him who are competent and vetting the ongoing process. He’s not, so he needs to go. Does that mean his direct reports are fine and need to stay? No, but that’s a decision for the (hopefully competent person) who replaces him to decide. Then those direct reports will continue the process on downwards.
This whole “bottom-up” meme I do not concur with. A house needs a quality foundation and you get one by having a skilled architect and contractor plan one out, not by discussing matters with the empty lot.
Narvy
Oh, I dunno, starting at the bottom with FEMA might work as well as it did at Abu Ghraib. After all, no higher-ups had any responsibility there either. Maybe FEMA can be fixed by just getting rid of a few bad apples.
h0mi
I think if we can find things that FEMA did that were good, right, proper, acceptable or great, Brown’s job would be fine. If we could point to anything that FEMA did quickly, did extraordinarily well, etc. our discussion would take on a different tact. But that’s just it. The entire situation seemed botched to me- The DHS umbrella with FEMA seems to me that it should’ve been able to pickup where the governor of La or Mayor of NO failed- so they didn’t evacuate 15k people as they should. Why weren’t NG troops put in place Tuesday or Monday? I thought after 9/11 and with the DHS situation, a massive effort like this requiring coordination in multiple states (Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida and their neighboring states) would be undertaken by DHS. The governor “was supposed to ask” for troops but didn’t… but shouldnt DHS have stepped in when it was clear that NO/La leadership failed and picked up? What if the governor or mayor died? This seems to me the biggest failure- the added layer of beauracracy failed to do what many people expected it to do, and if DHS/FEMA wasn’t supposed to do the things we’re calling for them to do, what exactly then was the purpose of the billions spent on DHS in the first place?
If the Mayor did his job right and Governor did her job right, we’d still see problems where aid and assistance took too long to get done. Things wouldn’t look so bad and dire- we wouldn’t have 10k dead, but we’d still see a FEMA response that appears inept to many people.
capelza
What is “interesting” to me is that the effort to lay all the blame at the feet of Nagin and Blanco has succeded at least the extent that people forget that things aren’t so hot in Misssissippi either (from listening to Scarborough and others and reading about Lott’s comments, etc). We are not discussing the problems faced by the outlying parishes of La, which are not under the control of Nagin.
Once again, I am not absolving Nagin and Blanco of any responsibility, but doesn’t anyone wonder why noone is jumping on Barbour for his lack of preparedness as well? Why didn’t his folks evacuate?
I think the “plan” is working…
Narvy
[ Begin sarcasm] Apparently not. [End sarcasm]
I’ve asked this on a couple of threads and gotten responses telling me that it’s illegal and that if Bush tried to push FEMA into the void left by local/state he would be impeached. Darrell called me a simpleton for thinking this could be done.
jobiuspublius
I tried to get answers to that direct question yesterday and all I got was an aligator roll. I’ve been asking for days, no response.
jobiuspublius
The defense to scapegoating is very simple. What about everybody else? That is way to many voices to control. There is no way all those state and local authorites can be cowed and managed. Game Over.
ppGaz
Weel, we’ve just watched the CNN broadcast of the Don Rumsfeld Comedy Hour here on the old boob tube.
You could change the subject of the briefing from “Katrina” to “Iraqina” and nobody would have noticed.
What exactly did these guys say? Did I miss something, or was this a rehearsed presentation called “We did everything right, so what do you wanna believe — us, or your lying eyes?”
See, last week never happened. There was no debacle, no day after day of WTF Is Going On, no people dying while politicans strutted before cameras five days after the storm …..
Don’t worry, everything is all right.
Was there some other message this morning? Did I look away for a moment, and miss something?
slide
The pressure is building for Brown’s firing:
John, I guess that makes you, according to Andrew Sullivan, one of the “most shameless of Bush partisans”.
ppGaz
Picture if you will … a large airliner plunging in flames toward the sea ….
…the captain turns on the PA system, and says to the passengers ….
“This is not the time for questions. We’ll have an investigation to find out what went wrong, and what went right.”
Boy, I don’t know about you, but back here in 17D, that makes me feel a lot better.
Ludicrous?
I just watched the President of the United States sitting at his Cabinet Room table, saying exactly that to the country.
That’s right, in the middle of an ongoing disaster that promises to be the biggest in our history ….
…your President is letting us know that he thinks there should be an investigation!
Folks, you could not write the script to this farce. Nobody would believe it.
Demdude
I’ve asked this on a couple of threads and gotten responses telling me that it’s illegal and that if Bush tried to push FEMA into the void left by local/state he would be impeached
==================================================
I’ve not been able to grasp that argument. If Pres Bush had sent Federal Troops at the beginning of this and let them do what they do best, organize and control, he would have been hailed a as a hero.
And the thought of Republican House & Senate impeaching him is just plain silly.
jobiuspublius
Failure to Effectively Manage Anything
Randi Rhoads, a few minutes ago.
ROFLMAO
jobiuspublius
I just noticed, Trent “new porch” Lott seems to have problems with MEMA, too. Wow, he sure loves to sit on his porch alone.
gratefulcub
He came to office 5 years ago as the cowboy president restoring accountability. He was the straight shooter. Jump off the plane cussin’ and gettin’ crap done. Bloated government bureaucracy is the problem, but no bureaucracy was going to stop them. They were cowboys.
Now they are hiding behind the bureaucracy, claiming there was nothing they could do.
Narvy
Well, Demdude, you’re a simpleton too, as shown by your inability to grasp the argument. And since I agree with you, I guess I’m a simpleton squared.
Darrell, Stormy, Any comments?
ppGaz
A tale of Two Presidents ….
Parallel universes? We retort, you decide.
President A:
President B:
President A cautions against trying to question why it all seems so fucked up. He reminds us that it is hard work.
President B takes charge and issues orders to get things done, kick ass, and take names. He sets an example by showing how to tackle the hard work.
I guess we don’t have to figure out which president we have, do we?
gratefulcub
So, how many people have to be given jobs at FEMA with zero experience in disaster management before Bush is somehow to blame? Are we living in the Gilded Age Redux?
I don’t get the debate. Unless you believe the FEMA did their job well, and that HS did their job well, and that everything worked as it should have……..I don’t understand how the blame can be placed everywhere else. Screw the infighting between state and federal. The president is the president and he can get control of a situation of this magnitude. (He is the take no shit cowboy, remember?) He can put troops on the ground, he can scream at some people until action is taken, until results are shown. The people in charge did not do their jobs before the hurricane, or after. And this includes the president, vice president, and Condi, who were all on vacation through Wed and Thurs. (disgraceful)
It would be easy for bush to give a speech and say, “Mike Brown and Chertoff had 45 years of combined disaster management experience when I put them in charge. I thought they were the right fit, but they didn’t do their job, and I have asked for their resignation.” That would be fair, and I would only hold W so much accountable. But he can’t give that speech. He put people in charge that had no experience, so when they fail, it IS HIS FAULT.
DougJ
Gee, John, that’s right, lots of people screwed up to let’s not fire anybody. We can’t blame it all on Mike Brown so let’s keep him around. Great attitude. It’s like none of the kids learned to read, so let’s promote them all.
And you call yourself a conservative.
No wonder this country is going down the tubes.
Narvy
Well, actually, there should be. But what Bush is talking about is a whitewash. He’s going to identify the state and local officials who are responsible for this if it’s the last thing he does as President. That will be his legacy.
Narvy
Lest anyone think that I think an investigation will uncover anything we don’t already know, I don’t. But a 9/11-style commission TV spectacular is what it will take to persuade the less worshipful Bush supporters that maybe something actually wasn’t done right.
ppGaz
I wish that that were true. Alas, I fear that the Spud Government has figured out how to game these things, how to play the process like a violin. Every day of additional time spent on something like that is another day for the parade of Mehlmans (the real-world version of Darrell … whenever you see Darrell’s posts, think of the face of that ugly little Mehlman man with his ugly anus-like mouth spitting out those lies) …. and the other paid mouthpieces to go in front of the cameras on Sunday morning and blather it all to hell so that nobody can understand anything. Pretty soon, it becomes possible to believe that maybe up IS down, and light IS dark, and a complete fucking failure IS a “heckuva job.”
The simple human disaster you saw last week will thereby become hours and hours of the same kind of blah blah blah horseshit that you see in this blog, from the likes of Darrell and his followers ….
Blah, blah, blah, blah …. forever and ever, amen.
jobiuspublius
But, we have Geraldo video! ;)
Narvy
Are you trying to imply that they’re not?
I try not to be pessimistic about stuff like this, but I rarely succeed. This time may be different, though, because some of the easily recognized Republican names lost their copies of the Lockstep Handbook in the hurricane and are actually saying things that are not in the Official White House Blame Deflection Manual.
On the other hand, I’m sure Bush will pursue the truth with the same vigor as OJ in his search for Nicole’s killer. I don’t know how this will play out. After all, Reagan is adored and Nixon’s memory is revered. Well, so much for optimism.
Narvy
By the way ppGaz, I’d like to know how you really feel about Ken Mehlman.
Davebo
Why we can’t fire Brown
The Chief of Staff is a guy named Patrick Rhode. He planned events for President Bush’s campaign. Rhode has no emergency management experience whatsoever. From Rhode’s official bio:
His first position with the Bush Administration was as special assistant to the President and deputy director of National Advance Operations, a position he assumed in January 2001. Previously, Mr. Rhode served as deputy director of National Advance Operations for the George W. Bush Presidential Campaign, in Austin, Texas.
The Deputy Chief of Staff is Scott Morris. He was a press flak for Bush’s presidential campaign. Previously, he worked for the company that produced Bush’s campaign commercials. He also has no emergency management experience. From Morris’s official bio:
Mr. Morris was also the marketing director for the world’s leading provider of e-business applications software in California, and worked for Maverick Media in Austin, Texas as a media strategist for the George W. Bush for President primary campaign and the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign.
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/06/fema-deputies/
Andrei
There’s no way to game a system if millions, not thousands, not tens of thousands, but millions of people march on Washington and demand a new government. As much as I agree with you on many issues ppGaz, I’m still hopeful something can be done and they can’t game this thing all the time. The calls for Brown’s resignation are fine, but they mean nothing from behind a keyboard. Same goes for Bush himself… all the blogging in the world means nothing if those people behind the keyboard don’t get out of their chairs, organize and hit the streets.
I think the simple fact of the matter is that if citizens of every major city in this country held a massive protest and maybe even shut their cities down for a period of time, there would be no way for Rove to play politicial football out of it for this administration.
At some point, you have to fight the crass political ames a guy like Rove plays with overwhelming force of protest. In this case, I await with baited breath for the Democrat who suddenly realizes that the way to make a difference in our country right now would be a massive, economy stopping protest. Although I would fear — maybe like you — that I’d suffocate.
The question is: Does the opposition party have the stomach for it? If the game is played inside the politcal stadium that is now Washington D.C., the Dems have proven time and tme again they will lose.
Maybe it’s time for some new tactics.
slide
Rick Santorum. Right wingnutia in all its fuckin glory:
.
slide
The Moderate Voice’s Joe Gandelman has a post calling for the firing of Michael Brown that has to be read. Just the beginning:
Looks like John is in that ever shrinking group of “staunchest partisans” not calling for the firing of Brown.
Nash
What *I* think is that you’d be hard pressed to produce very many people who actually think that. Fix this problem? “You going to go out on that joke? No we do reprise of song, it help but not much no.”
Entirely true and entirely beside the point. This guy named “People” that you keep quoting tells me that what he actually wants is a target to focus his anger on. He’s not saying it’s this particular target’s fault, he just needs a target for obvious reasons. Since Jim Fregosi isn’t available, he’ll go for Brown. Or Chertoff, or Bush. etc.
True, but again, “People” tells me that isn’t going to help with the anger thing.
Narvy
Dude, get real! Which is the currently fashionable way to say that while the Usual Suspects
mayundoubtedly will turn out, talk of millions of citizens marching or bringing their cities to a halt is not realistic. Neither is “demand[ing] a new government”, which, even if it’s limited to Bush resigning (hugely fat chance of that) is not going to happen. And staging a coup is so … um, uh, … unAmerican.Anybody want to take bets on the answer?
Narvy
I love it.
“We’ll flog their dead bodies until they scream. Unless they’re gay or fetus murderers, in which case we don’t want them moving to a safe area.”
The Senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santmoron.
.
slide
Is there an opposition party?
jobiuspublius
In the NRP, you will find a referance to a National Incident Management System, NIMS. The directive to develop the NIMS was issued in 2003. Read the NIMS, and you will find that:
Google National Incident Management System and you will in the news section:
Broussard on Meet The Press
Want to keep blaming Nagin and Blanco? Best laid plans of mice and men …
slide
Oh God, I hope this isn’t true:
.
Narvy
There don’t seem to be any pro-Bush partisans here. Any ideas why?
ppGaz
They are waiting for their new talking points.
jobiuspublius
They’re look for refuge before day of reckoning arrives.
ppGaz
He makes me want to put my fist through the tv.
I don’t, because it’s an expensive tv.
slide
Disaster in the Gulf. Tens of thousands likely dead. Hundreds of thousands displaced. Tragedy of unimaginable size. I was curious as to what the right wing viewpoint on all this was so I went over to National Review’s Online The Corner and this is the last posts from their site:
Wow. I was dumbfounded. An event so epic, so incredibly huge and narry a word on their blog. I’m not even going to venture reasons why that may be, I’ll just let the facts speak for themselves.
Art L
Yes, it’s bad enough that Homeland Security and FEMA were woefully late to act, when they did act they often were counterproductive. They halted busses when they first started to move toward the Suped Dome. They turned back a caravan of Wal*Mart trailer trucks loded with the very provisions that were needed most immediately. They refused entry of a busload of evactuees to the Astro Dome in Housten because they were not Officially from the Super Dome. They refused to allow Red Cross workers access to New Orleans because they said it was dangerous. They would have done is they would have stayed out of the way of people who actually do respond to the needs of victims of disasters.
Narvy
What’s more important, the Katrina Katastrophe or at long last getting a Supreme Court willing to roll back seventy years of social progress? What are your priorities Dude?
Narvy
Clearly, you are not a man of principle.
ppGaz
Well, it’s football season.