If anyone knows what exactly happened between Ann Althouse and Charles and Roger at OSM to make her act like a whiny 12 year old school girl who isn’t accepted by the cool kids, please fill me in. After reading her yesterday and today, I wish someone would remind her SHE rejected the offer from Charles and Roger, and not the other way around.I guess she is going for her own market niche as the loyal opposition to OSM. Or something.
So you don’t have to read all of her posts, here is a summary of Ann’s criticisms to date: “I don’t know what it is! I don’t know what it does! I’m blonde! Open sores is a play on open source!”
I have no idea if OSM is going to work, but bitchy post-mortems 24 hours in seem a touch premature. And Ann- if it bothers you so much, don’t read it, and get this- don’t invest any money in the venture. That has worked for me and Pandagon.
At any rate, I don’t get Althouse’s attitude, so fill me in if you know what is bothering her. My attitude is, if it works, it works. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And if it works and you don’t like it, don’t visit them. But I don’t understand the childish desire to kill something or try to kill something that other people have obviously spent a lot of time and money trying to get to work.
*** Update ***
From the comments of her latest post:
OSM is destructive of the blogger ethic, I think. I tried to talk about this when Roger L. Simon called me on the phone after this post comparing the two systems, and that’s the very thing that made him say “Nice talking to you” and then hang up on. That said a lot! He’d been quite intent on telling me how important it was to the venture capitalists to see a return on their investment. I changed the subject and challenged that perspective. He couldn’t talk to me about that and simply hung up on me.
This seems to be more to the heart of the issue than her feigning to not ‘get’ OSM.
And I don’t know what that blogger ethics stuff is, or if it is contagious, but if any of you folks trot any of that stuff around here and it rubs off on me, and I am going to be pissed.
*** Update ***
Max Sawicky has about the exact same take I did when I signed on:
I’m listed here under the Blogroll link in a subdirectory labeled OSMcontributors, though we haven’t finalized a deal yet. The arrangement is that I run their ad strip for a fixed, guaranteed monthly payment. Maybe they run posts from this site, maybe they never do. I see no downside, except the potential for embarrassment, a risk I run every day without any outside assistance.
I am under no obligation to endorse anything on the portal site, nor any of the principals of the enterprise. I don’t care if people I don’t like get rich. That happens every day in any event. Nor am I under any obligation to be nice to the principals and their chief cronies. In fact, I don’t mind saying here and now that a number of them represent the dregs of public discourse in the U.S., and several of them are stark raving lunatics. We’ll get into some fun profiles at a later date.
Pretty much how I felt. Things ain’t changing here, and they can use whatever they want, and if some law professors at Midwestern Universities get their panties in a bunch about the erosion of the ‘blogger ethic,’ I am hardly going to lose any sleep over it. And if you haven’t already, go and check out this ridiculous back and forth between Jeff and Ann. I am starting to think what really pissed Ann off (along with Roger and Charles honking her off) is she thought Jeff was actually liveblogging the event.
Pb
I’m not seeing it. But I will reiterate, I still find the fact that they’re using the acronym ‘OSM’ hilarious, as it belongs to the classic slashdot troll ‘opensourceman’.
Steve
It’s all just blogospheric navel-gazing, a phenomenon I trust you will concede is widespread. I am actually kind of optimistic about OSM, even though I thought her comments about their unimpressive launch were well-taken. This is the blogosphere, and if it ends up working, no one is going to care how their launch went. Nobody cares about whether Glenn Reynolds used a crappy font in 2002.
On the other hand, I think they have a serious trademark problem with these other OSM people, and they’re probably going to have to buy their way out of it. And the name seems to be positively Orwellian given their absurdly restrictive copyright notice.
John Cole
Pb- That is all well and good. Nothing has a guarantee of success. But I don’t understand the desire to piss all over someone’s attempts. I supported the HuffPo, and will support any new ventuires that promise to bring me new things to read.
Davebo
What happened seems pretty obvious.
OSM co-founder Charles Johnson, in a post entitled The Epitome of Taste, quotes the joke and declares that “Althouse has jumped the shark.” Cue Johnson’s famous commenters, who epitomize taste thusly:
“Ann Outhouse is a bile bitch,” “Ann Outhouse is a bile stool of the left,” “She a vile bag of pus,” “uglier than a dirty boot,” a “dumb slut … [and] Berkeley house whore,” “nasty bitch,” “snot,” “ass hole” and “moonbat.” One correspondent surmised, “perhaps she’s dyslexic and intended to say that she wants her puss swamped with semen?.”
My favorite comment, though was this: “When they have to stoop to insults, it’s probably all they have left for their attacks.”
Probably!
http://mattwelch.com/archives/week_2005_11_13.html#003385
Just some perspective for ya when you’re considering the quality of your commenters.
Lines
Michael Moore is fat!
Davebo
If Johnson really wanted to make a bundle he’d just make his comments section Pay Per View!
John Cole
LOL.
I know about CJ’s commenters yesterday- inexcusable. But I don’t understand why the desire to kill OSM dead exists, particularly from someone who was offered a chance to participate.
If the business model fails, so be it. Won’t be the first or the last time. But why the urge to try to make it fail? That is what escapes me.
Davebo
John, I don’t see here trying to make it fail. Or that such a thing is even possible with the amazing amount of funding they have.
It’s certainly way too early to declare OSM dead, but considering their start so far I’m glad none of the 3.5 million or whatever is my money!
Pb
Oh yeah. And as to “Open Sores” for “Open Source”. Ha ha. That hasn’t been funny since 1999.
scs
Can’t follow this inside baseball stuff.
ppGaz
Me either. Is there food? When do we eat?
scs
No food, but plenty of Scotch.
The Commissar
John,
I am confused by OSM. I thought it was going to a competitor to Blogads, with a different comp structure for the bloggers. But, now, OSM seems to be … some grander vision. John Hawkins posted all the questions.
As for the name “Open Source Media” already being used, that seems rather embarrassing.
I didnt read as much into Ann’s attitude as you did. This is the blogosphere; a lotta snarking goes on. Hers seemed well within normal standards.
cd6
Good thing Althouse isn’t Muslim, or those LGF comments would have gone to a whole new level
Justin Slotman
Wait–John and Amanda are united on something?
t. jasper parnell
Mr. Cole wrote: “So you don’t have to read all of her posts, here is a summary of Ann’s criticisms to date: ‘I don’t know what it is! I don’t know what it does! I’m blonde! Open sores is a play on open source!'”
This seems intemperate, inaccurate, mean-spirited, rude, and, what is more, inaccurate. I, for reasons unclear to me, read one of the linked post by Ms. Althouse about this bizarre and boring issue, and, to the extent I understood it, her complaint arose froma dispute over control of ad content, preceived disrespect from Mr. Simon, worry over the loss of some undefined (or in any event ill-defined) blogospheric culture, and a misrepresentation of her status within the new company. Hair color and what not played no role, or at least that I saw. Indeed, after Ms. Althouse’s badly formulated assertion about Dylan’s “real” political leanings, I had rather hoped that Mr. Cole’s characterization was correct.
John Cole
Jasper-
heh. Of course. but she did say all of those things, save the ‘I’m blonde” bit, which I threw in for effect.
As for the control of content, that is why she is given the choice to join or not join- and it will have no effect on whether or not OSM fails. regardless, there is no editorial control of the content here- they choose what they want to use on the OSM site. Bully for them.
My understanding is that OSM is what is trademarked, not open source.
Really, though, it just seems like some sort of personal dispute she has chosen to elevate into a federal case. Which is why I asked people to fill me in.
My attitude remains the same, though- if it works, it works, and while legitimate criticisms should be welcome, she just seems hellbent on making it fail or portraying it as a failure for whatever personal reasons.
Vladi G
I’ll give you a hint. It’s a long German word that starts with Schaden and ends with freude. And man, can it be sweet.
Vladi G
And in addition to Schadenfreude, there is probably about 250 or so people that want them to fail because they apparently got fucked over by mssrs. Johnson and Simon.
Davebo
John
Aren’t you a member of this new venture?
t. jasper parnell
Below is her summation of some of her reasons for not joining and actively resisting OSM.
Nonsensical they may be (again this is all gobbledygood to me)but they seem to fall outside the interpretation you presented. Not so much mean spirited or stupidly uniformed, but something else, overly punctilious or excessively Burkean, but not dopey or mean spirited, which is of course not to say that Ms. Althouse is neither.
Does any of this matter? Not really and certainly not to me, but your stated confusion is a bit of a puzzle. She may not be especially bright, but her prose seems clear enough.
As to if it works it works, I think Ms. Althouse’s larger concern is that if it works as it is supposed to work it would be a bad thing for individual bloggers and for the “culture” of the blogosphere. This concern may be excessive, sort of like the endless complaint about the Eiffle Tower when first it appeared, but is it not a conservative truism that the less change the better? Or at least a Burkean conservative truism.
1. I’m concerned not just for myself, but for others who will sign on to this deal without thinking through what it means.
2. If PM is just “feeling its way,” how dare it demand a one-year commitment from the bloggers!
3. I did email them and I even had a phone conversation with Roger L. Simon and never once did anyone raise this point about my having a veto or say much else in answer to my questions except essentially: take it or leave it.
4. PM has gotten so much support and publicity from bloggers, and the proposal they have come up with is BAD and someone needs to say something to express the disappointment and to counter all the puffery they’ve already benefitted from.
5. As I’ve already said, the veto power, which I assume actually exists (ie, I’m not calling Johnson a “liar”) is nothing close to enough to make the deal good.
6. There is an ethic and a set of values emerging in blogging, and these things mean A LOT to me. There is a culture that bloggers HAVE CREATED. It means something. It’s important. I don’t want to see a group of people with dollars signs in their eyes coming along and sucking out this value. That’s what I’m afraid of. When I expressed this concern to Roger L. Simon — who telephoned me — he said “Nice to talk to you” and hung up on me!
John Cole
Sure am. Should have ads going up in a week or so.
But that is just it- they ca n use my material as they wish, and I have control over ads (if something objectionable comes up, I tell em). Everything else stays the same.
Doesn’t seem to restricting to me. but then again, I am not a law professor, and spent ten years in the restrictive confines of the military.
And, oh yeah- did I mention they are paying me to do something I LOVE TO DO AND ALREADY DO FOR FREE?
The donations from you cheap bastards aren’t what keep me going. :)
Nikki
I think that Althouse was just making blog commentary about OSM. The left blogs have been doing it all week and then some. What, did you expect her to give a cheer or just ignore OSM’s launch?
Now, if you really want to see someone rooting for OSM’s failure, check out Dennis the Peasant. He’s got a SERIOUS ax to grind against your boys (and I can’t really blame him).
Compared to Dennis, what Ann said was pretty mild. Charles should’ve been more mature and just ignored it; or does he plan on taking on everyone who says something snotty about his new business venture?
John Cole
Yeah- I have been reading Dennis- he is PISSED.
But like you said- he has a reason to want them to fail. I don’t get Ann, which is why I asked you all to fill me in. Seems to me she really ants them to die for some other reason, which I can;t gauge.
What Jasper posts are reasons for her not to join, which I read and am aware of, but why be pissed about other people trying.?
John Cole
And if it is constructive criticism, more power to her. but to me it just seems like bile.
Nikki
Also, they really do have a major problem with the new name. Steven den Beste has explained that OSM and whatever it stands for is too close to Open Source Media Inc. which has already been claimed. Steven den Beste explains why there will shortly be lawyers involved in these comments.
Ian
John,
Where do you think OSM will be in 3 months? 6 months? 12 months?
They haven’t given a clear plan to where they want to go, except ask the people who they “hired” to give their opinion! In theory OSM sounds great, but in reality it doesn’t sound like it will go anywhere. There are already plenty AP news aggregators (in fact they are getting their news from an AP aggregator!), we don’t need another one. The way I read, OSM is paying child-slave wages to remove BlogAds and put their ads on your site. I do agree that it is nice to have something new to read, however I don’t think this is “something new”.
Nikki
It may be bile, but on these Internets, you know this is gonna happen. My question is why are Ann’s comments such a big deal? She’s now got a link to a smear coming from Prof. Bainbridge. You guys have pretty much left Dennis alone. What makes Ann so radioactive now?
Brad R.
I hope they succeed and recruit more bloggers. I’m always looking for new targets of ridicule.
Jane Finch
How does criticism turn into a “desire to kill”? You new big time journalists sure are thin-skinned…kind of like the old big time journalists, in fact.
And speaking of sounding like a whiny 12 year old, pots and kettles, JC…re-read your post.
John Cole
Ian- From what Steve Den Beste says in the thread Nikki linked to, it sounds to me like they will be in court.
Nikki- Umm. I didn’t think I was really picking on her, and that is why I asked you guys to fill me in. Dennis- I get Dennis. That is crystal clear.
Brad R.- A big ‘Heh. Indeed.’ to you.
John Cole
Jane- I am not sure how you can, with a straight face, accuse me, the proprietor of this comments section, of being ‘thin-skinned.’
And I didn’t think this post was excessively juvenile.
t. jasper parnell
She wants it to “fail,” although it seems more generous to say she wants it to reform, because of the damage to culture of the blogosphere and potentially shorn innocent bloggers, no? She worries, or says she worries about both. Thus she, like Cassandra, warns all and sundry that the ship is sailing the wrong way and those aboard doomed, doomed she tells ya. She may well be wrong, but her reasons for not wanting people to be join are clear: its a bad deal, badly thought out, and it will damage the blogospheric culture (neatly undefined but clearly dear to her lawyerly heart). In short, it’s about the bloggomaniacs and their bloggoriffic purity and the bottom line.
Ian
What’s link .. to Dennis’ site or the “real” OSM?
SomeCallMeTim
John:
To the extent that people want the venture to fail – well, look at who’s in it. Jeebus. I mentioned Lydon’s Open Source Media (which you already knew about) only because I appreciate a couple of the people who’ve joined – you and Corn. But other than that – [deleted as inappropriate].
“So you don’t have to read all of her posts, here is a summary of Ann’s criticisms to date: ‘I don’t know what it is! I don’t know what it does! I’m blonde! Open sores is a play on open source!’”
I don’t for a minute believe she’s a blonde. Her hair’s blond.
Krista
But the love you get from us is what keeps you going, isn’t it? Otherwise it would just be you, Tunch, and your Charlize Theron fantasies. :)
Stormy70
None of us here come for the ethics, John. When people start talking blog ethics, I fall into a stupor from all the bloviating horse hockey being peddled.
Geek, Esq.
The hatred is because Charles Johnson is perhaps the most widely reviled figure in the blogosphere for running a daycare for psychopaths and virulent racists.
Exhibit A.
Exhibit B.
Geek, Esq.
Seriously, having Johnson as a principal is like having the admin from st0rmfr0nt.0rg on board.
John Cole
Geek- As far as exhibit A, those were all commenters who called people ‘koranimals.’ Exhibit B, what did Charles say that was so bad?
Personally, I would have shut my comments section down were I Charles. But I am not holding his wingnut commenters against him.
Steve S
John seriously needs a cigarette.
Stormy70
Off/topic. I posted in the movie thread, Krista. I wanted your take on some of those, :)
Geek, Esq.
As I said, he’s the equivalent to the admin of st0rmfr0nt.
Note also that it was his policy for a long, long time (not sure if it still is) to delete and ban anti-semitic posts and posters, but allows the most putrid of anti-Muslim bigotry to flow freely.
And the fact that his commenters do favor bombing mosques and Islamic schools does tell you something about his blog.
It would be the same as the admin of st0rmfr0nt running 3-4 daily stories about black men killing white people and raping white women.
Geek, Esq.
Oh, and JC, the point of Exhibit B was that Johnson’s posters favor blowing up Muslim schools and mosques. A clear majority of them reacted in one of two ways to that story:
1) This is a good thing, it’s just too bad their government forced the citizens to take the law into their own hands; and
2) TOUCHDOWN!
Richard Bennett
Is it a desire to see OSM fail, or simply a prediction?
The OSM are awfully sensitive to criticism, aren’t they? Like, WTF do they expect bloggers to do to any new enterprise that promises to take blogging to a whole new level and then comes on-line looking like a Chinese copy of the Huffy-Puffy, sit back and praise it?
Simon made matters worse by alienating the majority of the right-wing blogs by first offering them deals and then backing out without comment. He may be able to get away with that shit in Hollywood, but not on the World Wide Web.
Anybody with half a brain would have realized that bi-partisan blogs don’t work, people go to a web site for predictable spin on new events. So his site was going to be a right-wing site, no matter what. And given that, the leftwing blogs were going to have long knives out, no matter what, and that means he should have treated right-wing bloggers who were shut out of the project with a little human decency, but they don’t do that in Hollywood, where the little people are ciphers.
I see OSM as parallel to Michael moving the Corleone family to Tahoe to try and go legit, and then being unable to escape his own mind. Charles Johnson has been selling hate, quite profitably, for some time and he hoped to go legit with OSM, but it looks like the same thing on a larger stage.
Blog portals are a decent business concept, but this doesn’t have much to recommend it. Other than you, Jeff, and Michael Totten, the stable of bloggers they’ve lined up are all shit: Dean Esmay, Cathy Seipp, LaShawn, Hewitt, Malkin, and Baldilocks. We’re looking at an average IQ somewhere around room temperature, and a view of the world that cries out for medication. The MSM never looked so good.
John Cole
What happened there? I have seen people write about it, but not seen the reason for it.
John Cole
I am not sensitive or offended, I just don’t understand why seemingly everyone not involved is declaring it doomed from the get-go. And Althouse just reads like sour grapes, not constructive criticism.
I would have stuck with the name Pajamas Media, btw.
Squiggler
I don’t know what Ann’s problem with OSM is (other than what I’ve just learned reading all these comments), but I know what I thought when they were advertising for a new name, I thought it was a bad idea. They want to become exactly what the blogosphere has managed to subvert … the sharks circling mass media of a single mindset that controls the flow of information and ideas. They want to be one of the big boys and join the elite inner circle. Turns me off. I like the informality of the blogosphere, the idea that there are very very bright people out here who have razor sharp minds and a personal love of “getting to the bottom of it.” Contrast that against those controlled by their bottom line and elitist editors who decide for you and me what we need to know. As soon as they changed their name and got out of the pajamas, I lost interest. Do I hope they fail … well, I’d hate to see them succeed.
Gary Farber
“… please fill me in.”
“But why the urge to try to make it fail? That is what escapes me.”
John, you’re being mystified about a blogger picking up a topic to be critical and snarky about.
Because that’s such a rare and inexplicable phenomenon.
Uh, right.
StupidityRules
John Cole said:
Where would LGF be without the comments? Long forgotten.
Hateful evil people also likes to talk to each other sometimes.
Gary Farber
“…but to me it just seems like bile.”
With great respect, and some affection, John: bwahahahahahahahaha!
John Cole
Touché.
StupidityRules
So is OSM some kind of pyramid scheme? Do any bloggers you recruit have to give any of their ad revenue to you? Do you have to give any money to Charles? Do you sell schampoo? T-shirts?
“A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered.”
“The essential idea behind each scam is that the individual only makes one payment, but somehow they are promised to receive exponential benefits from other people as a reward.”
“Most pyramid schemes are attempts to confuse potential consumers into complicated but convincingly fool-proof money making scams.”
“To embellish the act, most such scams will have fake referrals, testimonials, and information.”
Good thing you didn’t enter at the bottom…
Wasn’t there a guy in V called Charles btw?
Gary Farber
For the record — and I posted this in comments on the Crooked Timber thread — Roger casually invited me to participate, in the course of an e-mail exchange about something else, after I wished him luck with the venture, back around March, and I said I was afraid I couldn’t consider participating because although I respected him, Roger, despite many differing POVs, I couldn’t see associating my name in any way with Charles Johnson. I’ve not heard again from Roger in response to any of the handful of subsequent missives I’ve sent his way, but, then, he’s busy, and what I had to say was of no importance.
Regardless, I still wish those involved in the-entity-formerly-wearing-pajamas-which-aren’t-dignified-after-all-I-guess, luck and success. Why not? No skin off my back.
That doesn’t prevent me from enjoying the hell out of the spectacle — and only one day out of the box! Man, am I going through the popcorn! Slathered with butter and hot blogger blood! Yummy!
:-)
(I think the blogosphere may actually have achieved its highest purpose in that no greater tool has yet been invented for allowing people to achieve the greatest possible embarrassment of themselves in front of the maximum possible number of spectators.)
t. jasper parnell
I confess to finding all this focus on Ms. Althouse just plain odd. As an aside, UW-Madison and its law school are far more than some mid-western university, if the intent of that characterization was meant to be derogatory. Ms. Althouse may be less than stellar, but all institutions, even the Vatican, have had dopes and dupes wandering their halls marbled and otherwise. But this is not the reason I find all this odd. Ms. Althouse’s remarks are small beer compared with Mr. Peasant’s.
This Dennis the Peasant fellow has laid out a case against Mr. Simon, his associates, and the substructure of the PJM/OSM enterprise that is damning and, if true, reason to reconsider participating in the PJM/OSM endeavor. His dissatisfaction arises not because of a political dispute, because of his unnecessarilty wadded undergarments, the color of his hair or such like but because he thinks they are a species of conmen. Why not at least consider his complaints?
Mr. Cole suggests that Mr. Peasant is “pissed,” which seem to be a gross understatement, just as his inability to grasp Ms. Althouses worries about bloggoculture and less-well informed bloggoscribes’ bottom lines seemed purposefully obtuse. Employing “pissed” suggests that the cause of Mr. Peasant’s multiple postings is rage born of a bloggomaniac scorned. His early posts, in any event, lay out a multi-pronged, albeit heated yet still wholly rationaly, attack on Mr. Simon’s character, intentions, business acument and managerial abilities as well as casting serious doubt on the long-term viability of the enterprise. An attack that casts Mr. Simon as a particularly unlovely combination of Henry Hill and a Borgia pope. Yet we are here treated to comments on hair color and panty-waddedness, a puzzle.
Fledermaus
Shorter t. jasper parnell: “Hope you got the money up front, John”
John Cole
DougJ- Enough with the jasper charade.
One of your funnier caricatures, though.
Juliette
Richard Bennett:
I love you, too, Richard. Please come back over and “quote” the Bible to me some more so I can slap you down again.
Jackmormon
Pajamas Media was a clever name. That name alone made me less willing to wish the entire enterprise to hell for Johnson’s involvement. Now?
I hope you get yours, John, and I hope you’ve ironed out what your copyrights and dues will be.
Kevin K.
I just want OSM to fail because Charles Johnson is a fucking hippy. And I’m not too fond of the visual of Roger snorting coke off of Bette Midler’s ass.
I want OSM to succeed so that David Corn can afford to buy a new tie. Wake up and smell the decade, Colmesholio!
Kevin K.
That said, John, the best defense I’ve read of OSM from people like you, Corn and Max is that you’re going to make money. That’s all fine and well, but, seriously, what do you make of OSM post-launch? For all of the pre-game hype, you’ve gotta admit it’s not that impressive. I don’t recall as much advance chest-thumping with HuffPost and that project was a lot more substantial and well-defined from the get-go. Granted, I don’t really read HuffPost at all (Gutfeld’s massive leather-pants-clad package always pokes me in the eye whenever I try), but at least I get what it “is.” OSM is even more of a mystery unveiled than it was back when it was whatever in the hell it was depending on what calendar day it happened to be.
Or something like that.
Richard Bennett
Here’s John Weidner’s account:
Weidner says they’ve come out of hibernation and started communicating again, but the pattern of behavior isn’t encouraging, and if they are acting better it’s because they were shamed into it.
StupidityRules
You can’t run a pyramid scheme with everyone sitting at the top. You need grunts in the bottom. Lots of grunts.
Seems like they got Weidner on the hook for position as grunt:
Rick Moran
Blogger Ethic:
I will write and comment on whatever I damn well please. I will be as hysterical or as reasonable as my mood permits. I will strive to be as accurate as possible but won’t have a cow and committ hari kari or wear sackcloth and ashes if I happen to get something wrong. And if you want to hold me to some high falutin standard of “purity” when it comes to blogging then eff you and the effing horse you road in on. Mind your own blog!
Richard Bennett
That’s mighty Christian of you, Juliette Baldilocks. (She’s one of the followers of the God of Love who wanted to burn Mike Schiavo at the stake for defying the will of Randall Terry, and one of the high-traffic delights awaiting you behind the Portal of Peace, OSM(tm).)
t. jasper parnell
Is it ad hominem to deny someone’s existence as a means of avoiding responce to substantive comments or questions?
Boombo
Ann Althouse beat Vince Foster to death with her long blond hair!