John Batiste, retired general and former commander of the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq (2004-2005), has added his name to the chorus of high-ranking officers calling for Rumsfeld’s head. The others are Gen. Anthony Zinni, Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton and Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold.
One general has credibility, four starts looking like a major trend. Critic alert! Danger Will Robinson!
You know what comes next.
Honestly the only question was whether Bush defenders would go with Mentally Imbalanced, Partisan Activist, Disgruntled Ex-Employee or Promoting a Book (MI, PA, DEE and PaB for short). PaB it is, although the writer (Victor Davis Hanson) can’t help throwing in aid and comfort for spite’s sake.
***Update***
I categorized the post with Rumsfeld in mind, but it’s fair to point out that Hanson’s commentary constitutes general rather than specfically Republican wankerage. For all I know he’s a registered Libertarian.
ppGaz
I they’ll get his head. Bush’s “I give the generals whatever they ask for” routine is going to come back to bite him in the ass here.
It’s going to be impossible to Scott McClellan their way out of this one.
ppGaz
“I think”. Why does my keyboard drop entire words?
Lee
I know it sounds naive but….
Do these people have no shame?
I cannot believe that some arm-chair General (I REALLY wanted to add chicken-hawk to that) is trying to smear men who have actually fought to defend our country.
Brian
What better situation for the anti-war media thatn to have REAL GENERALS backing their narrative to oust someone, ANYONE, in Bush’s cabinet? This is a perfect marriage. Heck, Murtha was just a sorry stand-in for guys like Zinni and Eaton.
Now the real show can begin, the media drums will beat louder and louder each day, and when Bush backs Rummy, which you know he will do, you’ll then retort that Bush supports his people at the expense of the country, the troops, THE TRUTH!! We can predict it like the tides by now.
Personally, I would like to see Rummy go, but I’d hate to see it happen in a wave of negativity of the media’s own creation. A pleasant balance to this shamelessly opportunistic posturing by the generals is the bitch slap that Murtha received in today’s WaPo. It was about time that SOB got a knock upside his sick head.
Over to you, moonbats.
capelza
I’ll add chickenhawk for you. And where are the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth (ironic) at? They have to be ratching up something.
Brian
This has passed its expiration date.
capelza
So have you, but you’re still stinking up the place. ;)
John Cole
Just wanted to let you know that the next time Al Franken says something stupid and I file it under Democratic Stupidity and you all have an aneurysm, I will be pointing you to this post.
Ancient Purple
I love how Hanson throws in the fact that these Generals are retired and receiving their pension.
How awful! Receiving your retirement benefits that you earns.
The gall.
Next thing you know, they will actually want their home owner’s insurance to pay the claim on the fire in the kitchen.
The nerve.
Doctor Gonzo
I think Rumsfeld has created a wave of negativity by himself that is large enough to last for several more administrations. But that’s just my opinion.
SeesThroughIt
Wow, I didn’t realize so many generals are objectively pro-terrorist, hate America, and want the terrorists to win.
RSA
Hanson wrote:
I can’t believe this traitor thinks we’ve made mistakes. I challenge him to identify one specific mistake that the administration admits having made concerning Iraq. . . “Thousands of tactical errors”? Come on, be specific. Just one.
Lee
I’m sure I’ll be making fun/ridiculing things he says. When I do I feel bad. Kinda like making fun of someone’s downs syndrome kid brother :)
Me being prior military (Marines) using the ‘chickenhawk’ label never loses its flavor :)
Zifnab
Damn that media and it’s foul “reporting” of the “facts.”
That said, I think this is more of a “they’re all retired generals so what could they possibly know?” It’s funny, but I begin to see more and more how the administration put one over on the nation way back in ’00. Any one of these claims, standing by itself, sounds not-entirely-uncredible. A General gets a book deal and starts saying Iraq was a failure. A famous news reporter uncovers a “scoop” that’s actually rather overblown. An Iraqi mother’s protests of her son’s death make her more of a fanatic than an anti-war activist.
Any one of these claims, by itself, is something the country can swallow. Any single lie or distortion floats on its own. But come year 5, and the administration is STILL responding with the classic “what do they know, they’re just all out to get us” line, and you realize it got stale a long time ago.
Brian
Rag on VDH all you want, but the guy is very knowledgeable about the history of military conflicts. Probably more so that the generals mentioned here, combined.
gratefulcub
Honestly, me too. I wish the change had been made when it was apparent that he needed to go, but he got ‘great job’ instead.
It is a setback if the Sec of Def gets the boot during a time that everyone is calling for his head due to incompetence. It would have been better if he had resigned when he could have still said that he was leaving for completely legit reasons like he was fatigued from years in the post during a stressful time.
But now we are in a precarious situation. Calls for a change behind the scenes from generals didn’t work. They sent Murtha out to make the claim publicly, so that the change could be made before a ground swell of opposition built. More generals spoke out. “He’s doing a great job.”
It is obvious that Bush won’t do this on his own. He also refuses to do anything after someone suggests he should.
All that is left is for enough people with clout to publicly call for his resignation that the dreaded liberal media picks up the story. It has to reach a Harriet Miers level of opposition before it will happen.
I wish that wasn’t the situation. You can blame the media if you want, but this really is the only option remaining to get a competent leader in the position.
You may not want to think that this position is held by the brass of the military, but it seems to be. Where are all the retired generals supporting Rummy? And, they can only be honest after they retire.
Some were calling for his head long before they had a right to. You can’t disregard the argument now because the ‘Michael Moore Wing of the Liberal Democratic Party’ spoke too soon. you can’t lump us all together, unless everyone to the right of hillary can be considered a Pat Robertson fundie.
gratefulcub
Why don’t you have any faith in the ability of our generals?
Why do you not thing the Army War College sufficiently trains our soldiers in the history of armed conflict?
Do you just believe that these generals aren’t sufficiently informed because they disagree with you?
Do you want to call me a pillow biter again?
Nikki
As all things with this administration, experience counts for nothing.
Ancient Purple
Perhaps, but then Hanson throws this in:
What an odd use of the language to display the fact that these generals are retired. Having a pension is irrelevant to the fact that one is retired.
I will grant that one could read it the way you suggest, but considering this is a slam, I am dubious that Hanson was pointing out the generals were pensioned as a reminder that they were simply retired folk.
Lee
Brian, you have never spoken with a General in your life have you?
Generals are all about the history of military conflicts.
Check out the front page of The War College website if you think this critisms is only coming from the retired generals.
The War College
Link to article What went wrong in Iraq
Ancient Purple
Ugh. Too early in the morning.
“Having a pension is irrelevant to the fact that one is retired” should have “in this instance” at the end.
More coffee please.
Zifnab
*rubs eyes*
*yawns*
*passes pot*
SeesThroughIt
True, and neither do knowledge, expertise, and insight.
gratefulcub
Hanson:
Criticism is ‘self serving second guessing’ and what we really need is confidence.
He then continues to talk about choices we have to make in the future. I suppose no one should care about the poor choices in the past. Because, learning from mistakes won’t make you more capable of better choices in the future.
Rummy doesn’t need to learn from mistakes in the past, Bush does. The mistakes of the past include hanging on to Rummy too long.
yet another jeff
Perhaps the “pensioned” is mentioned to imply “if they really meant things, they would have put their entire future on the line, forgone their pensions, and not have followed the order. But they did, and so they have no right to complain now that it’s safe and they’re life’s work will not be thrown away for speaking”?
Regarding Rumsfeld, I don’t care if Rumsfeld gets fired, resigns, whatever and the media gets the credit. Sure doesn’t seem worth it to keep him up there, wrecking up the place just to spite the media.
gratefulcub
Didn’t Batiste turn down a promotion in protest, then retire? He threw away quite a bit.
Faux News
I’m waiting for Mean Jean Schmidt (R-OH) to tell these Generals what she said to Murtha:
“Only cowards cut and run”.
She should know from her extensive military experience.
yet another jeff
Maybe he’s implying that since they’re on pension, they need to supplement their meager incomes by selling lies to the liberal media? Maybe that it wasn’t their idea to retire, that they were asked to step down due to their hatred of America?
Cyrus
Shorter Brian: how could some Communist like Murtha possibly have figured out what’s actually going on before it got through to me?
Broken
Yeah, yeah! VDH’s expertise on the Peloponnesian War of 420 BC makes him more qualifed to comment on modern war than veteran modern generals.
yet another jeff
Shorter VDH – Another dead-ender. This insurgency of retired generals is in its last throes
capelza
What??? We’re not using sarissas anymore? (yes, I know, a century later..sue me)
Vladi G
Amazing to think that men who graduated from the Academy, worked their way up the ranks, earned the rank of General, and commanded troops in battle are so weak minded that they needed the media to tell them that Rumsfeld is an idiot.
gratefulcub
SUPPORT THE TROOPS!
(until they step out of line)
ppGaz
Uh, well maybe he should do a better damned job, then?
I know. We could throw a big party for him, and have Bush give him a medal.
Would that be “positive” enough for you?
What a damned idiot you are, even for a spoof. You’d want to keep the incompetant bastard in there because you don’t want to make your adversaries look good by getting rid of him?
Are you familiar with the term “Cutting off your nose to spite your face?”
Aw, never mind. I’m talking to a fucking spoof.
betamu61
Brian…hoping you are not serious in stating that VDH is more knowledgeable about military history than a general would be. As the son of a long term Naval officer, it has been my experience that most of these guys are exceptionally well versed in many areas of military history. From both sides of many conflicts thoughout history. VERY doubtful any journalist is better versed. Even if they were, without actual experience making the knowledge resonant within the individual, it is just information.
I want the War we started to go well. I want our troops to be successful so they can come home. I want our nation to be more secure. I know this will not happen while our current administration is running things.
Pooh
Huh? I’m sorry, I missed the linkage.
Al Franken says something stupid so…
1. This thread
2. . . .
3. ‘Democratic Stupidity’ causes aneurysm
Is it just the mere mention of “chickenhawk” that does it? John, we know you served, I don’t think anyone would think of applying that term to you. And if they do, they’re an ass.
capelza
Correct Pooh. I reserve the term chickenhawk for nice pudgy fucks like Jonah Goldberg and the other ivory tower neo-cons. Oh and the frothing at the mouth keyboard kommandos that think calling me names on the internet is doing their part for the “cause”. Veterans, I give a great big pass to, especially now that it is a volunteer army.
I didn’t like that word at first, but as the sabre-rattling continues at Iran, it really is the time to shut up and go join. I mean that.
The Other Steve
It’s too bad General Patton isn’t still alive.
After all, he fought in the Peloponnesian wars and could give VDH a lesson or two.
:-)
vetiver
I think the “pensioned” reference is just a stylistic tic. “Pensioner” is a Britishism meaning “retiree” — not sure why Hanson used “pensioned” instead of the more vernacular “retired.” Maybe to his ear, pensioner has a connotation of doddering senility he wanted to express. Maybe he’s one of those stuffy wanker-writers who puff up their unoriginal ideas with an Oxbridge vocabulary and syntax. Maybe he’s British.
Yeah, it’s too bad about all the negative media coverage of Rumsfeld. Like my grandma always said, “If you can’t say anything nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.” Would that have been so hard for those reporters to do?
Gary Farber
I see you’ve yet gotten to Maj. Gen.Charles Swannack (former commander of the 82nd Airborne). Really, Tim, you have to update every few minutes on the generals, doncha know?
You also left off Lt. Gen. Wallace Gregson, former Marine commander in the Pacific. Must keep up!
capelza
So for anyone keeping score..does that mean there are six generals openly calling for Rumsfeld head?
searp
VDH is an experimental weapon of mass destruction, psychological version.
He is actually a computer program somewhere written by some sick Republican operative that churns out random, impenetrable crap in a writing style best described as neo-Pelopponesian Gnostic. It actually hurts my brain to think of it. Nefarious, truly nefarious.
Tequila
VDH has done pioneering work on certain aspects of Greek classical warfare. I’d listen to what he says about how hoplite armies fought, though most scholars disagree with his argument that hoplites were agricultural yeomen rather than well-to-do landowners. VDH is not a historian, despite his vocation, but rather a classicist and dilettante farmer. Unfortunately he allows his own personal experiences and views affect his historical writings enormously. For instance, his conviction that small farmers are the true progenitors and guarantors of democracy (in a shocking coincidence, VDH’s background is as a small farmer) as opposed to urban “elites” seriously unbalances his assessment of Boeotia vs. Athens in FACE OF BATTLE. Too often VDH writes history as fanfiction.
RonB
And now that you’ve recategorized it, you have a nifty pun out of the deal! “General” Stupidity! Ho ho!