A reader writes to Andy Sullivan:
I am surprised that the Politerati, or DC’s chattering class, have not seen the parallels between Hillary Clinton and Richard Nixon. They both have brilliant strategic minds, suffer from extreme paranoia about the enemy of their agenda, and both are extremely secretive. Nixon had very high negatives, and re-launched his “brand” image in the 1968 campaign, just as Hillary is doing in 2007. In short, Hillary is Nixon in a dress, or more appropriately Nixon in a pant suit. We saw what happened the first time we entrusted the White House to a person with behavioral traits like this. Do we want to go through it again?
Methinks Sullivan’s reader made the same rhetorical mistake that war boosters make when they weigh the cost of leaving Iraq but not the cost of staying. Electing Nixon in a pantsuit sounds pretty scary until you realize that the alternative is Bush in a dress.
***
Seriously, Nixon? I can safely predict that this same writer used to nod gravely when Rush called her ‘Hitlery.” Bush Derangement Syndrome has nothing on Clinton Panic.
uh_clem
I used to be against Hillary running for president because I thought she’d be too divisive, and I’d really like to see us move past the BDS/CPS and start working together again.
But after watching the Kerry Campaign and the Swift Boat Liars in action, I realized that anybody the Democrats nominate will immediately get the full treatment. So it really doesn’t matter if the Dems nominate someone who’s divisive – the nominee will become divisive just by virtue of being the nominee no matter who he/she is. It wouldn’t matter if they nominated Captain Kangaroo, he’d become the most hated re-incarnation of Nixon/Hitler/Stalin in a matter of minutes.
So, I read this crap and say whatever. Nutbars on the interwebs. They could be manipulated into hating a jelly doughnought.
The Other Steve
I’d vote for Mister Rogers, but I’m not sure about Captain Kangaroo. He’s clearly a bi-product of the military industrial complex and a war mongerer to boot.
jenniebee
Dems tended to think defensively when they voted in the primaries in 2004, and the results were predictable. Not only did our candidate still get attacked viciously with the perception of “how Democrats are” overriding the reality of who Kerry is, but the conversation and debate never came around to Democratic strong points because the focus stayed on the swift boat/who lost Vietnam BS. To make it worse, the media story continued to be not only focusing on wartime foreign policy, but specifically on the meta-story of the perceived Democratic weakness in that area. Lose-lose.
We should have stuck with Dean. I still don’t get why we decided that anybody who yells in a pep rally isn’t presidential material.
Zifnab
Yeah, after 8 years of Bush Jesus, I can see how Sullivan’s readers are suddenly worried about a secretive, lawbreaking, wiretapping, out-of-control President in the White House.
Cognative Dissonance, thy name is Right Wing Blagosphere.
Right. There’s absolutely nothing the Dems can do to prevent a Republican smear job. Dems would have a better chance of winning elections if they just crossed their fingers and prayed for the Republican Party would stop fundraising. When Rush can play “Barak the Magic Negro” in between tirades about how Democrats are all racists… you can’t win against those people playing by their rules. Don’t even try.
Barry
“Bush Derangement Syndrome has nothing on Clinton Panic.”
Bush Derangement Syndrome *is* Clinton Panic. The right assumes that we look at Bush the way that they looked at Clinton. In addition, the right really, really understands the value of throwing an insult at the other guy, if that insult is the truth about oneself. It disarms the truth very nicely. The right figured that they could portray accusations against Bush as equivalent to right-wing accusations against Clinton (i.e., 90% pure, unadulterated, deliberate lies).
The Other Steve
The more the GOP wails, the more I lean towards Hillary.
George B.
9/11 changed everything.
demimondian
Actually, there are things that can be done. The simplest is to attack people who repeat the smear — “You’re supposed to be in the news business, yet you chose to broadcast this *even knowing it was false*? How dare you?” Lawsuits against Fox News might also be a good idea.
(No, I’m serious. The point is not to win money through the the lawsuits, but to force the courts to decide that Fox has been complicit in intentional slander. Once that is established, money damages will come in the future.)
Comrad Mattski
Mmmmmm…. Forbidden jelly Dohnut.
Zifnab
That’s a bitch to prove and it gives FOX lots of attention. It’s the sort of thing that drives up their ratings. Better to freeze them out and let them start flinging lawsuits. The screaming hissy-fit FOX is having over not being allowed to hold a Dem Presidential Debate is the perfect example of a Dem victory in action.
If you do send people in, send in the clowns – literally. Putting comedians like Al Franken and Steven Colbert up against nuts like Melany Morgan and Bill O’ reinforce FOX as the E! TV that it is. Sending in smart, funny, but totally unserious people to debate thick-headed smear-artists is perhaps the best strategy thinking liberals have embraced against the braindead blowhard conservative.
Rome Again
Just having the name Clinton on the ticket will rally the righties to the polls. Think about it. Can’t we get anyone else? And isn’t Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton just a little too much nepostistic bullshit?
Rome Again
andd I kan’t spel!
demimondian
You mean like these guys? (Please God, let them be spoof, anyway. Syphilis — err, I mean, Sisyphus — the current front pager, says they’re not.)
demimondian
So, I see that balloon-juice is now censoring voices of which the left-moon wingbat editors don’t approve. How else could my link to blogs4brownback have failed to show up?
Jake
Sure there is. The Dems could grab their ankles for the Reps. Or just become Republicans. Look at how well they get along with Lil’ Joe “I-Con” Lieberman. Of course when I say Republicans in the current political landscape, I mean the Bush Approved Republicans. No independent thinkers, mavericks or moderates need apply.
The Other Steve
I think you mean… “Having a Democrat on the ticket will rally the righties to the polls.”
Yeah, not much of a fan of Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton… but she’s coming off well in the debates. So we’ll see. I’m largely undecided.
Rome Again
\
No TOS, I don’t. I’ve got righties in my family who vehemently hate Clinton (it’s not just “Rush Limbaugh says Clinton is dangerous and I believe it” hate, it’s “Clinton totally fucked with the aviation industry and I lost my job because of it” hate – of course, my family member doesn’t equate aviation and 9/11 with anything significant, hmmmm, go figure).
I think that those who have Clinton paranoia are not only concerned about Hillary being a Clinton, and being the first woman president, but that Bill would be back in the White House again, and he would be doing a hell of a lot more than picking out china patterns. I think Clinton fear goes far beyond what you think it does.
Tom Hilton
Simple: ‘we’ didn’t. The pundit class decided that, and ‘we’ let them influence our decisions.
(That said, I still don’t think Dean would have done any better than Kerry. Clark or Edwards maybe, but not Dean.)
Dreggas
I’m pretty much rooting for Obama. I like what he has to say and, despite his “lack of experience” and being so “young” I think it’s exactly what we need with regard to Fresh leadership.
Looking over some of his speeches I can even tolerate his references to his faith because he isn’t trying to shove said faith down anyone elses throat nor using it to score brownie points.
To me he sounds genuine, others not as much.
Rome Again
Because of any lack in his abilities or because of the scream? The scream was a farce, and only proved to righties that if they can’t find something in the way someone conducts their affairs to attack, then they can always make fun of the way someone emotes. We’ve got an idiot in the White House who is a dry drunk and the righties want to have a beer with the guy; they turn away and ignore him when he acts idiotic (constantly) and yet, they were afraid of someone whose voice carries a little loudly when he is happy. Tell me what is wrong with this picture?
Rome Again
Faith should be a private matter. It shouldn’t be discussed in elections and it certainly shouldn’t be used to influence elections either. I’d be much happier if he’d just not mention it at all, keep it private, between God and himself.
Zifnab
I’d like it if he had a bit more to say about issues of the day. His healthcare proposal was lukewarm. His stance on Iraq is moderate at best and wavering at worst. He doesn’t have a strong platform on corruption. He isn’t outspoken on taxes or social security. He hasn’t said one damn thing that’s contraversal, and that scares the bejezzes out of me.
I just hope we’re not looking at a young, black, John McCain. Because our country can’t survive another jackal in the White House. If Obama wasn’t trying to out triangulate Hillary Clinton, I’d be more ready to vote for him. But for me, it’s John Edwards, even if he did spend my campaign contribution on his haircut.
Dreggas
Zif,
He was pretty darn clear about protecting social security etc. this morning. He was also very much for unionization, the employee free choice act and making the department of labor the department of labor, not the department of management.
ThymeZone
Straw poll time?
1. Don’t care for Hillary, would vote for her in the general election only because she is the Non Republican.
2. Edwards is well meaning but I have doubts that his social-worker view, which is largely the same as mine, is adequate for the world stage he would play on. Doubts.
3. Obama is tempting, but like Jack Kennedy his first time out (angling for VP slot in 1956), I think he needs more seasoning. I like the guy very much. I don’t mind the triangulation, it’s primary season and primaries are all about triangulation. If we don’t like that, then we should get rid of the primary system.
4. All others: Dead on arrival except for …
5. Gore. By far, my favorite choice, and I am strongly hoping that he gets into the race. He has the chops, and he’s already been elected once. He just didn’t get to serve his term.
Dreggas
Rome,
I agree faith should be a private matter and should not play a part in ones politics. However if one does speak of their faith it’s better to sound genuine than to sound like some self-righteous nitwit paying lip service to something they don’t really believe in.
Dreggas
TZ,
I agree WRT Gore. If he did jump in the race I would definitely support him, even better if he selected Obama as VP.
ThymeZone
Unless you’re a spoof.
Where’s the Spoof-O-Meter today? Like the DHS Terror Threat Level Color Code, I think it is on Perpetual Yellow.
Jake
Yep, hoping for Gore here too. I don’t like the idea of voting against someone (a Repub.) but that’s what I’m looking at right now.
Zifnab
Eh. If you want to stable the word “Devote Christian” on your forehead and parade yourself through the street on a campaign bus, go nuts. I won’t vote for you, but I won’t begrudge you your freedom to express your religion.
I’m less worried about “sounding genuine” vs “sounding like a nitwit” than I am about the politician who says he’s a Christian vs the politician who claims this is a Christian Nation.
Claiming you’re in a club is way different than claiming everyone not in your club isn’t a citizen, and that’s what really irks me about the religious right. Otherwise, religion is just another flavor of pandering, like Richardson claiming to be both a Yankees and a Red Sox fan. I just can’t bring myself to care.
Tsulagi
That’s funny. A Sullivan concern troll looking to get the base bobbleheads bobbing in sync out of a fear of authoritarianism. The same bobbleheads who no doubt slapped on another American flag bumper sticker for the Patriot Act, unchecked NSA wiretapping, and an AG who said “I don’t see habeas shit in the Constitution for citizens.”
Not my preferred candidate, but I’d almost want to see Hillary get the nomination nod just to stick it to those retards and watch them wet their pants if she’s elected. But if the Dems think it’s going to be a cakewalk to the WH strewn with flowers and candies, they’ll get their asses handed to them again.
They need to come out swinging, especially by the time the nominee is chosen. If they do another Kerry rope-a-dope brilliantly staying on the ropes as the last bell sounds, the dope wins.
Zifnab
Is there something magical about Al Gore that I’m just not seeing? Like, he’s cool and all, but I don’t understand how he’s any better than the field. He strikes me as an Edwards or a Richardson. He’d be a good candidate, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see him as this hands-down better candidate that everyone drools over.
Bubblegum Tate
Not only that, Comrade Kangaroo’s red jacket pretty clearly spells out his socialist agenda.
ThymeZone
Not magical. Who said magical?
But yes, there is something you are not seeing.
By virtue of experience and temperament, and a notable cooling of ambition in his latter years, he is by far the most qualified candidate on either side of the aisle, if he gets into the race.
Of course, in blogville, such a thing is hardly a sure fire reason to support somebody. Simple superior qualification and predisposition aren’t worth much in the era of bathos, bullshit, values, and gagging blogspeak.
Name a candidate in either party who is better prepared for the job, and for running for the job, than Al Gore? Who has a better grasp on the domestic and world issues?
Who has already won a presidential election, and a primary?
Ah, why am I wasting my time arguing anything around here.
I should said, PARIS HILTON! Fuck her, send her to jail!
Which candidate would send Hilton to the Lethal Injection chamber? That’s the one that gets my fucking vote!
Rome Again
Gore would also be my first choice, and unless he does anything really stupid, he always will be.
He’s the only one who truly recognizes the problems we have today. I do have to admit though, I liked him better with the beard, it made him say things with more force for some reason. ;)
Andrew
She vil crush them!
ThymeZone
Sorry to shift focus here, but this is just UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE.
Good god. I need a drink.
(link is from DKos). toh
ThymeZone
I thought it made him look like Ironside.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
The Other Steve
And yet the same was true of John Kerry fucking over Vietnam vets, too.
As has been said repeatedly, any Democrat is going to get this treatment. Quit running from it and embrace it instead. Your family going after Hillary is going to drive 5 times as many voters away from the Republicans than it brings in.
Tulkinghorn
But if the primary mode of the republicans is to smear and incite resentment, some candidates can handle that better than others. Kerry was favored because it was thought that he would stand his ground, and although he was a failure at that it does not mean impulse to look for a fighter is wrong.
Clinton has sharp elbows, but she will get bulldozed in the Mid-West, Mountain West and the South. She will inspire all the kooks and a servile press will feed it to the public non-stop. Selecting her is picking a fight she may well be unable to win, and by losing it she will revitalize the right wingers. All for a ‘centrist’ who can’t admit the error of supporting the Iraq invasion and occupation. A bad choice all around.
Tony J
Or he could compromise by going with a goatee and running as the evil version of Al Gore from an alternate universe.
“Vote Gore in 2008- Or Die With The Rest!”
Seriously, if he does that, I’m changing nationality.
Tony J
As in, moving from here, to there, and joining his GoreForce of Destruction.
Only to bring it down from within, you understand. The authoritarian is weak in this one, honest.
Zifnab
That’s the greatest sin. The rest – sharp elbos, inciting the ‘pubs, feeding the press – is forgivable. I’m not worried about losing the west or the south. I’m worried about winning a Pyrric Victory by electing a DINO to the Presidency.
RLaing
Let’s see: Hillary favors torture, does not regret her vote for the war, and believes the chaos in Iraq to be entirely the fault of the Iraqis. She’s different from the front-running Republicans in that she wears a dress, and not much else. Look for the war to expand to Iran if Madame Wal-Mart comes to power.
HyperIon
concerning Bush-In-A-Dress, i did not know this:
HyperIon
i neglected to mention that i saw this at sullivan’s site.
ThymeZone
Heh. Slow morning, just needed something to do.
mrmobi
Yeah, TZ, I’m also hoping he decides to run. I don’t know why he would, but I’m hoping. My favorite moment from “An Inconvenient Truth” is where he introduces himself by saying, “Hi, I’m Al Gore, I used to be the Next President of the United States.”
I also like my Senator, Obama, a lot. Lack of experience notwithstanding, (we know how well Mr. McFlightsuits’ experience has served us) I think he’s got the intelligence, temperment and knowledge to be a very good POTUS indeed.
As far as the Clagina is concerned, I’m experiencing a certain overload here. Don’t like her position on the war, torture or the way she fucked any real chance for health care reform years ago. That said, if she’s the nominee, she’s got my vote.
Chad N. Freude
This is what started my passionate dislike affair with her.
jenniebee
If that is truly the case then ‘we’ are a bunch of nitwits and democracy is a farce.
Jake
[Picks chin off desk]
So, lacking any real life instance of torture saving lives, Tony turns to the wonderful land of make-believe. This could make SC arguments really interesting. “No I don’t have any precedent but in Season Six of the X-Files…”
I thought it was only very young children who modeled their behaviour on what they see on TeeVee. Maybe AS is going through a second childhood.
Or maybe he’s a big freak.
When he would have been justified in taking a mallet to them. He could say he saw it on TV.
Methinks TZ has the right idea.
Chad N. Freude
I believe this has been the case, at least at the federal level, since January 20, 2001.
Chad N. Freude
And don’t forget St. Ronald Reagan’s confusion of his WW II movie roles with actual military service.
Rome Again
See, the Alzheimers he suffered later in life was actually self-induced.
kchiker
I’d also like to see Obama as Veep for 8 years before giving him the reins. Especially to give him time to find a decent staff.
The only real joy in voting for Hillary will be the simultaneous exploding-brains (“rapture”????) of the Clinton Panic’ers IF she wins.
I wonder if Gore and Obama have had dinner lately/ever. Maybe they should….
The Other Steve
The only other candidate who I think can handle it is Obama. But I’m not certain he’s got as sharp of a jab as Hillary.
Edwards has already proven he’s completely inept at letting the media paint him as a out of touch french sissy.
Gravel could probably throw some punches, but ultimately get painted as crazy. Ditto Biden. Dodd possibly, don’t know.
mrmobi
Now you’re talkin’, hchiker. Gore/Obama08, that’s a ticket I could learn to love.
DougJ
I think that’s why Hillary is unbeatable in the general. Attempts to swift boat her will backfire, because (a) they don’t know how to smear women yet (Nancy Pelosi is the most popular person in Washington right now) and (b) they’ve already hit her with so much crazy stuff.
That said, I’ll vote for Obama or Edwards in the primary.