Does the Iraqi government have a home video showing mercenaries from the Blackwater firm firing wild into a crowd of Iraqi civilians? If so it could be very, very bad news. Words can inform but pictures, especially moving pictures, carry emotional impact in a way that written accounts almost never do. Fairly specific stories about what we did at abu Ghraib circulated from reporters like Seymour Hersh for quite some time before one CD of pictures blew the story wide open.
A video showing totally unaccountable American contractors firing wildly into a crowd of civilians, unprovoked, could crystallize opinion at home and in Iraq in the same way as that abu Ghraib CD. It could, for example, add instant weight to allegations that the same thing has happened many, many times already. For that reason I hope the video doesn’t show that, or if it does that it doesn’t get out until we have pulled our troops out of harm’s way.
Ugh
It’s just a few bad
appleslarge multi-national private armies.MNPundit
Oh I don’t know Tim. It’s become clear that we won’t leave unless we are MADE TO LEAVE.
How do you suggest that happen without the video? If anything the outcry would bolster the “Iraqi’s want us out so we should leave” argument.
scarshapedstar
That’s an interesting way of putting it. I would argue that the Iraqis already knew that people were being raped and murdered at Abu Ghraib, and similarly, they already know that these Blackwater scumbags shoot innocent civilians like dogs in the street. (This may have something to do with the fact that half of Iraq supports attacks on American personnel.)
So, in this case, what would “crystallize” is that American and Iraqi opinions would approach unity. Good. If we don’t know what the fuck is going on over there then it’s long past time we started listening to those who do, and they want us gone yesterday.
End this stupid, shitty war and bring our troops home.
Zifnab
Dude. Whatever. Might as well cross your fingers and hope to God the sun rises in the west tomorrow.
The Mechanical Eye
What floors me is how much information you have to ignore to continue to support this war under the freedom ‘n’ democracy banner — I don’t think any of the “Long War” people imagined mercenary armies acting like they’re above the law in a years-long occupation, but that’s what we have.
And the *exact same thing* will be recycled for Iran.
DU
JPL
Yeah, that happens. It was in “No End In Sight” – a home video of mercenaries (at least I hope they were mercenaries rather than soldiers) blasting away at nearby cars with no provocation until the driver died set to jaunty country music.
It reminded me of the scene in “Lord of War” where Andre Baptiste Jr. blasts to pieces a nearby shanty with the gun Yuri just sold him, laughing like a madman as some of the people inside run out.
capelza
Christ on a crutch…
We are an occupying force, the bullshit about us being allies with the Iraqi gorvernment is so much hogwash.
Talabani, the president of Iran is demanding that the U.S. release another Iranian they have detained in Kurdistan. Of course the Prime Minister and the President of Iraq are nobodies. And Iran just happens to be a trade partner for Iraq as well as the next door neighbour.
We aren’t listening to our “ally”, we are doing exactly what we want.
It’s lunacy
Bubblegum Tate
Ah, privatization. Is there nothing you can’t solve?
incontrolados
Privatization does seem to obviate all the burdensome ROE.
Chris Johnson
If this IS HAPPENING then I hope the video does show it and that it is out YESTERDAY.
I don’t care what price we have to pay to be accountable and responsible for our own actions and the consequences of our decisions. In the end we will be accountable for it all- I say that starts NOW, immediately, in the long run it is for the best.
As an American citizen I am personally, very indirectly, accountable for exactly this. I voted against Bush, I did all that voting stuff, but I have done nothing to forcibly wrest these people from power. Had I voted for him and supported him I’d be more accountable, but I still haven’t stopped him either. This, too, is an occupied country. …which might become more obvious in the next few years.
ThymeZone
You know what impresses me? The civilian violence in Iraq and the fact that, ANAICT, Iraqi leaders, officials and law enforcement officers are not in front of their people, using every available medium, demanding law and order and insisting on respect for law, and taking action against criminals.
I don’t see it, I don’t hear it. It appears for all the world that Iraq has no actual government at all. It has only an occupying force that is outnumbered and widely despised (that would be, you know, us).
What exactly are we doing in there at this point? Are those people going to govern themselves, or not? If not, then we need to get the hell out. If so, then we SHOULD get the hell out. Either way …..WTF?
Davis X. Machina
Privatization does seem to obviate all the burdensome ROE
The ROE play havoc with the ROI.
RSA
What does caviar have to do with French monarchs? (Good one, though.)
But I think that for a lot of the people, the cavalier attitude of the mercenaries has been obvious for a long time. Even in the way they drive, forcing other cars off the road and not stopping when they hit pedestrians. It’s tough for the locals to distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys, on any side.
Punchy
Tim rhymes with dim. Dumbass, of course that video is doctored, and totally out of range to show the other, not seen, not heard, not felt insurgents firing unprovoked first. In fact, the insurgents fired BEFORE the camera starting filming, so all we see is Blackwater’s response.
Sean Hannity told me this, therefore it is true.
LITBMueller
One of the great ironies of this is that trying to force Blackwater out of Iraq, and demanding the release of Iranian prisoners is probably the only last way for Maliki to (a) survive politically and (b) gain any credibility at all outside of the
GreenColor of US Money Zone.Its ironic because, if Bush is to be taken at face value, he wants Maliki to survive. So, maybe he should take a page from the Rove playbook, stop blaming the Democrats & Iran for all our failures there, and starting blaming Blackwater for everything. That way, he can build credibility for Maliki and come up with an exit strategy: “We have to withdraw because Blackwater so poisoned our relationships with the Iraqi government and people, that our position there has become untenable.”
Of course, this will never happen because the whole point of taking Saddam out was to establish a US base of operations in the middle of the Middle East (that was not Saudi Arabia).
And, just remember: absolutely all the talk about reducing the number of combat troops in Iraq, from both parties, is totally meaningless without a corresponding reduction in private contractor forces, since the numbers of both are practically even.
r4d20
Mercs are fucking scum.
Eural
Yes, and that did exactly what?
Rumsfeld gone? Nope.
Anyone really held accountable? Nope.
US out of Iraq? Nope.
Bush administration suffers political fallout? Nope.
Gosh, if it does have the same impact then exactly nothing will happen. Just like before.
whippoorwill
I think the idea that Iraq is a land of perpetual murder and mayhem is burned into the Americans psyche. It’s also burned into the American psyche that their President lives on another planet and will do as he pleases when it pleases him. And with 34 southern republican Senators in his pocket about all anyone can do is holler and yell till they’re blue in the face.
Yippee!
KCinDC
Eural, I think Bush did suffer political fallout from the Abu Ghraib scandal. It was one among many things that contributed to his present sub-30% approval rating. Unfortunately now that we’ve gotten down to the hard core of truly stubborn, deluded Bush worshippers and war lovers, this story isn’t the kind of thing that will have much political effect on him or on support for the occupation.
Detlef
KCinDC,
it´s astonishing somehow for a non-American how a President with “sub-30% approval rating” can still get everything passed in Congress.
Just saying…
I´m not even mentioning that apparently that “hard core of truly stubborn, deluded Bush worshipers and war lovers” seem to approve of the current Congress more than Democrats and Independents? (If some blogs and polls are right).
Just asking…?
What is the worth of poll numbers in the “sub-30%” if your American Congress seems still to be too frightened to do something/anything?
Are they waiting for sub-20% or sub-10% before providing some oversight? Any oversight at all?
Are you really understanding what you´re saying?
Somehow, a “hard core of truly stubborn, deluded Bush worshipers and war lovers”, less than 30% of the US population somehow are still in charge of US policy towards the rest of the world. And somehow the 70+ % of you can´t do anything?
Forgive me, but that´s not a very comforting thought for the rest of the world.
P.S. Just to mention it, if that is true, your system is really broken. I mean, as a European, what are the chances that you Americans won´t elect Bush III in 2008 or 2012?
If your system is that dependent on the sub-30% voters?
MNPundit
The media. The media are absolutely mindless slaves of the Rightwing–the right worked hard on this, worked on it for 30 years to get it this way and our ideal of “objective” media just makes it worse.
Anyhow as for mercenaries… now what I’d like to know is if Blackwater would for money, hire itself out to a foreign nation in conflict with the Americans. That is, would BlackWater employees shoot at us? That’s the answer I want.
capelza
Detlef…it is indeed messed up. There are times that I lon for the parlimentary system and a binding vote of no confidence.
Thing is, the GOP memebers in Congress for the most part are the biggest tools in this whole mess, in terms of getting anything done.
It wouldn’t matter squat what Bush wanted with HIS 30%. It’s the GOP in Congress who, knowing that only 30% supportr this lunacy STILL go along with it. Them I can not understand at all. They aren’t even representing their own people anymore, but the party platform of the 30% lunatic fringe.
Good grief at least my GOP Senator, whether for pplitical gain or because he really feels that way, has broken with the GOP on somethings lately, like the Webb amendment. But the other? Someone must have some pretty raunchy pictures stashed away, for these guys to hold on like this. They can’t all be this crazy..or can they?
alphie
cap,
With 22 Republican Senators up for re-election next year vs only 12 Democrats, they may figure they have nothing to lose.
They are risking losing the power to filibuster, though.
ThymeZone
None. The American congress does not operate on poll numbers, it operates entirely on the basis of its own rules and procedures, and proceeds on the basis of known vote counts on matters that come to the floor.
Democrats do not have enough votes in congress to effect legislative change. They might after the next election, if Democrats can wise up and focus on winning seats next year and forget about the whining bullshit every time they misunderstand how the process actually works … which is mostly what you see here on this, and most other, blogs.
Vote counts and vote counts alone determine outcomes in this congress. All else is theater.
If you want change, you have the change the vote counts.
If you don’t believe me, write a few congresscritters and ask them.
whippoorwill
I think your absolutely right alphie. Mitch McConnell is a slimy corrupt worm but smart about politics and he sees the writing on the wall. I think he and his cohort republicans have dusted off the “How To Be a Pain In the Ass Senate Minority Party” book which they wrote during 40 years in the political wilderness. It only has one chapter on how to filibuster everything that moves in a way the public doesn’t notice.
Anne Laurie
It’s become clear that we won’t leave unless we are MADE TO LEAVE.
Well, the Iraqis/Iranians/Middle-Eastern-Boogeymen-of-the-Week may not be able to force us out, but China’s got the U.S. Treasury by its shrunken green ‘nads. Both the mercs and the troops will be sent back here just as soon as Dubya’s temper tantrums about the Eeeevuldoors looks like it might interfere with the free flow of oil into & merchandise out of the Middle Kingdom.
Of course, when that day comes, our new Masters of the Universe will need guys with weapons experience to keep American hoi polloi in line. The Blackwater “professionals” will be unleashed on the redstate masses (think of post-Katrina New Orleans as a very soggy dry run), and the heartland green berets will be sent to keep order in the effete coastal metroplexes. The ChiCom Princelings have had some 40 years’ practice running their native fiefdoms this way, and I’m sure they look forward to demonstrating how a real kleptocracy runs things to tyros like Dick Cheney.
Phil
I like pie.
Phil
I like pie.
John S.
Wow, Phil, you need to learn to read.
I don’t think the link you provided quite illustrates what you think it does (unless you only read the first few sentences), but then again, I don’t think you quite care about context.
By the way, do you really want to get started on who the Republican candidates are hanging around?
The fact is, candidates for president speak to the people that will vote for them. Therefore, democratic candidates speak to democratic voters (which includes KOs) and republican candidates speak to republican voters (which includes Fred Phelps).
It’s pretty simple.
whippoorwill
How’s your anger management therapy going, Phil. We’ve missed your razor whit and deep political analysis. Besides your really a funny guy, well maybe not that kind of funny, probably.
Undeniable Liberal
The Iraqi government doesn’t have it anymore. The Rove/Cheney/Bin-Laden production company has paid hundreds of million dollars for it, and editing hasn’t been completed yet.
Exclusive premiere airing to be shown on Fox “News” coming soon!!
Tsulagi
Ah, I see another of those really smart “big picture” Pubs. Followed Phil’s link. Goes to a diary someone wrote who essentially says she hearts Ahmadiningwhatever.
You could tell Phil that Cheney could post a diary on DKos saying he has Bush perform each morning in his old prep school cheerleader dress while tapping his feet so that he can get his pacemaker started. While that could be true (likely even), that wouldn’t mean the DKos site supports that activity or is proof they’re another chat room for the Gay Old Perverts party. Yes, you could tell Phil that anyone can post on DKos, even him, but why disturb his ignorant bliss. Stay the course.
Andrew
Phil is painfully stupid. Not much more to be said. I’m am going to a drink another Yuengling now.
Phil
I like pie.
Ryan
Off topic, but if you’re sick of watching the Republicans get their panties in a wad over the MoveOn.org ad, check out David Shuster absolutely destroying one of them in an interview.
I believe the appropriate term is: Pwned!
Ryan
Fred Phelps is a Democrat? I guess all the roster spots for Gay Haters, Immigrant Bashers, and Religious Right Assholes were already taken in the Republican Party.
Andrew
Time for more Yuengling.
John S.
Ooh, I struck a nerve.
Sorry, Phil, but the “God Hates Fags” meme is a play out of the GOP handbook. That’s why your Republicans keep using gay marriage as a wedge issue to scare up the voters.
And like I mentioned before, you need to learn how to read. Particularly the portion in the link you provided titled “Opposition to Al Gore and Bill Clinton”. Because, you know, democrats all go to the funeral of Al Gore’s father, screaming vulgarities at Gore and telling him, “your dad’s in Hell.” (And by the way, we’ll be voting for ya’!)
What Phelps’ followers believe in is indoctrinated in the republican party – not the democratic. People vote their beliefs – not what it says on their voter registration card. After all, John Cole is a registered republican and yet you come in here screaming what a liberal scallywag he is. By your logic on Phelps, Cole is really a republican – no matter what.
Therefore, either you are full of shit regarding your calling out of John, or you are full of shit regarding Phelps. You can’t have it both ways. Either you are what your voter card says, or you are what you believe.
And you and your party believe in hating homosexuals – just like Phelps. Love it, own it.
Tim F.
Phil,
Tim F doesn’t really care who you are either, but since you diss basic netiquette by pissing your off-topic nutpicking all over my thread it seems reasonable to introduce you to a little tradition around here. Better luck on one of our open threads.
whippoorwill
Now your really are getting desperate Phil, smearing Kermit the Frog. Have you no decency sir. Picking on a poor defenseless amphibian, and knowing how hard it is to be green and all. you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Lesbians and Achameanajob. That’s interesting Phil. Have you run these thought’s by your therapist. They sound a little like a homo-erotic fantasy klnda thing in a lesbian sort of way. I’m sure your doctor can help you sort it out.
Tim F.
The rest of you, save the Philbaiting for an open thread. Unless he manages to say something on topic, in which case whatever.
Chris Johnson
Detlef- remember I said this was an occupied country?
It’s very unlikely our votes are counted honestly.
It’s very unlikely we can even get near these people holding a placard saying, for instance, “Peacefully Vote Against Bush” without being hauled off by armed police somewhere nobody can see us.
God damn it, with a name like Detlef you could possibly be German- and you have NO IDEA what is happening to us? Do you study history, do you read, are you paying attention? You haven’t the excuse of living within the borders of this country and subjected to the continuous propaganda. We call it politics now, not that it was any different years ago.
This country was originally intended as a republic set up with a balance of powers using ambition against ambition, with the intent of reinforcing the effectiveness of small factions so things never got too monolithic. That’s why we have the electoral college in the first place. But the whole concept is fragile- and it’s grievously harmed now. It may still be salvaged.
This is an occupied country making a break for fascism, and it may or may not reach that point. I never voted for fascism- but I’ve often been given choices like fascist vs. fascist lite.
Wake up, how else can you explain what you see?
incontrolados
In my, granted, limited experience, I don’t think pie-eaters/throwers get that you put an ‘n’ at the front of an otherwise common word.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that the Blackwater or baiting issue got much play in the MSM today. I’d say bring on the Iraqi’s Blackwater video. All this wailing and threatening over the guy from Iran is utterly pointless.
Punchy
Serious tin-foil hat territory. Like a threesome of conspiracy theories. Unpossible.
Chris Johnson
Uh, no. Diebold promised outright to deliver votes to Republicans- and good luck demonstrating anywhere near Bush, because you’ll get hauled off to a ‘free speech zone’ away from the cameras. If I meant ‘without getting shot where you stand’ I’d have said so. I said hauled off where nobody can see you, specifically nobody on TV.
The latter two things of the threesome are what suggest the first one to me. Just because _you_ like it doesn’t mean squat to me. I don’t think Detlef approves of this stuff much either…
TenguPhule
Bad is an understatement. As I recall, they were already lynching and burning the bodies of these mercs.
Gods only knows what they’ll do to any contracter they can catch now. And I can’t blame them at all, the paid killers have it coming to them.
rachel
What did Machiavelli say about hiring mercs? In a word: “Don’t!” But then this administration runs things like they read The Prince so they could do the exact opposite of what they should do.
whippoorwill
More evidence we’re http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/25/iraq.main/index.html.
Andrew
That’s how I read it and it serves him right.
Punchy
WE WON!! WE CAN GO HOME NOW!
I had really NO idea this was true, but since he says so, AND says Iran is not a factor, that means:
1) We’re close to done there
2) We have no cause to attack Iran
I can’t wait to see how the right-wing blogs trumpet this success. Can’t wait.
SPIIDERWEB™
Yes video worked out so well in the Rodney King beating.
http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo72.htm