Pretty ripe Friday doc dump. Yesterday, Ed Kilgore at NYMag, “Mike Johnson May Want a Government Shutdown to Avoid Epstein Files Vote”:
… Democrat Adelita Grijalva’s special-election victory in Arizona on Tuesday to fill the seat left vacant by her father’s death means there will be 214 Democrats in the House once she’s sworn in. She’s indicated she will instantly sign the discharge petition sponsored by Republican Thomas Massie and Democrat Ro Khanna to force a vote on the Epstein Files Transparency Act, which would require the Justice Department to release everything it has on that explosive scandal. Three other Republicans, all of whom have been outspoken in various ways about pedophilia and sexual abuse, have signed the petition as well: Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Nancy Mace. Grijalva is likely to provide the 218th signature, the last needed to put the Epstein Act before the House. This is very much not what Johnson wants; he’s been ordered by the White House to let the president and Pam Bondi handle the Epstein matter without any messy and potentially disastrous public disclosures.
But here’s the catch: Grijalva can’t be sworn in until the House is in session. The longer Johnson can put this off, the more time he and the White House have to increase pressure on Boebert, Greene, and Mace to take their names off that discharge petition (Massie is considered incorrigible). And even if that effort fails, delaying Grijalva’s swearing-in gives them more time to gin up some distractions from the Epstein issue. So maybe the Speaker wants to give his troops a break while the government shuts down, or maybe he has other smelly fish to fry.
Today:
Now you know at least part of the reason that Trump won't release the Epstein files.
Elon Musk apparently went to Epstein Island, and Bannon and Peter Thiel are in this as well.— soonergrunt (@soonergrunt.bsky.social) September 26, 2025 at 2:12 PM
Politico, “Musk, Bannon and Thiel named in new Epstein estate documents”:
New files turned over to congressional investigators from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein suggest the convicted sex offender, in the last years of his life, had ties with President Donald Trump’s former adviser Elon Musk.
The documents, which were delivered to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and published Friday by the panel’s Democrats, come in response to the committee probe into the Epstein case. In what appears to be a copy of Epstein’s itinerary, Musk had a tentative trip to Epstein’s island on Dec. 6, 2014. A note appended to that plan reads, “is this still happening?” At the time, Epstein owned a private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Another schedule notes a planned lunch with tech billionaire Peter Thiel on Nov. 27, 2017, and a breakfast with conservative political strategist Steve Bannon on Feb. 16, 2019 — just months before Epstein was charged with sex trafficking of minors. Bannon was Trump’s chief strategist, and Thiel is a prominent Republican megadonor.
These new files are notable in that they suggest all three powerful men had a relationship with Epstein after his controversial plea deal that forced him to register as a sex offender. Many people have argued that the non-prosecution agreement, which was signed in 2007, allowed Epstein to continue to prey on young women and girls for years before his subsequent 2019 arrest.
“It should be clear to every American that Jeffrey Epstein was friends with some of the most powerful and wealthiest men in the world,” said Sara Guerrero, a spokesperson for Oversight Democrats, in a statement. “Every new document produced provides new information as we work to bring justice for the survivors and victims.”…
The new documents posted show a 2017 lunch with Epstein and Peter Thiel. But Thiel knew Epstein by at least Fall 2016. At that time Thiel had endorsed Trump and was pushing dirty tricks for him, including the Pizzagate conspiracy. Epstein introduced Thiel to the Russian ambassador Vitaly Churkin. 2/
— capitolhunters (@capitolhunters.bsky.social) September 26, 2025 at 12:33 PM
It hasn't yet been reported how deeply Thiel was involved in disinfo before Trump's 2016 election. He funded "MAGA3X"; his people first pushed the Pizzagate conspiracy (just after his Epstein-Churkin meeting). Every highlight here is Thiel or someone paid by him. 3/
docs.google.com/spreadsheets…— capitolhunters (@capitolhunters.bsky.social) September 26, 2025 at 12:33 PM
TL; DR…
Dems just released new Epstein files implicating Steve Bannon, Elon Musk & Trump’s shadowy tech backer Peter Thiel
docs reveal meetings scheduled between the notorious archpedophile Jeffrey Epstein & Peter Thiel the shadowy tech fascist billionaire who is building Trump’s surveillance state for him— justfara (@justfara.bsky.social) September 26, 2025 at 1:21 PM
WaterGirl
It sure seems to me that the administration seems to believe that their being responsible for a government shutdown is less bad for them than releasing the Epstein documents.
That does not seem to be a great position for them to be in.
Hmm, seems like the choice between which leg you want to have broken or whether you would rather die in a fire or by drowning.
Am I off base on that?
WaterGirl
PSA copied from the end of the previous thread:
Fair Economist
I think the Democrats should put “releasing the Epstein files” at the top of their CR demands. The CR fight is about politics, not policy, and boy would that be good politics.
lollipopguild
Endless corruption. Even if trump had passed away by 2015 they would have found someone else to play the role.
JoyceH
Meanwhile, CNN is reporting that this unprecedented recall of all military flag officers to DC is so that they can personally attend a speech by Hegseth on “warrior ethos”. Hooooly shit – you’re gonna have some very powerful and very smart men really really really pissed!
iKropoclast
Someone pointed out to me that Epstein looks like Andrew Jackson and suggested he is a vampire, the most recent personality incarnation of the former President.
The look is right, I can no longer unsee it. Though I doubt he is a literal vampire, just the real version of what authors use the metaphor of a vampire to warm us about.
JoyceH
@iKropoclast: seriously? I’ve always thought Epstein looked like a dweeb.
UncleEbeneezer
Nice little reminder that Julian Assange was not only coordinating the Wikileaks release of Hillary’s emails with the Trump campaign, but he was also encouraging Trump to claim the election was stolen if he lost (as he did in 2020 resulting in January 6th assault on the Capitol). And yet some people on the Left (I know a few) still view Assange as some sort of principled Progressive hero. SMDH
trollhattan
Can I get some Meg Whitman time on the island? Everybody involved in Paypal is a fucking criminal weirdo, so why not?
gvg
The only problem is how complicated this is going to be to follow correctly. The weird Qanon people like complicated but they aren’t logical and don’t understand proof. They are likely to go in all sorts of incorrect directions with raw data. And I want valid jury convictions. Oh well, start with the truth and see where it leads. Its better than secrecy.
UncleEbeneezer
So in fairly big news (for me), I just booked a flight, hotel and rental car to go back to Los Angeles the weekend of 12/11. It will be my first time back since moving to Taos and my first chance to visit our old street/lot in Altadena, since the night of the fire. When we left, the National Guard was still not letting anyone go north of Washington.
I talked about it with my therapist and she thought it could be a very good thing for getting some closure and moving on. I’ll also get to visit some of my fave restaurants and see some old friends but the main purpose is that I’ve felt this nagging need to go back ever since we left. It’s gonna be an emotional rollercoaster for sure but it feels like a good thing to do and I’m also excited for it.
Parfigliano
Release all of it so Charlie can rest in peace.
dmsilev
@JoyceH: Well, at least it makes “Trump-lead military coup” that much less likely. Pissing off All The Generals And Admirals just for an ego-trip doesn’t seem like a great idea.
Less dramatically, high-ranking military officers are very good politicians. They pretty much have to be to reach those elevated ranks. And a lot of them are buddy-buddy with slews of reporters. And pissing them off for no good reason seems like a good way to ensure lots of embarrassing stories about Hegseth “somehow” get published.
Geminid
@JoyceH: Yeah, fly 8,000 milrs to hear a lecture on warrior culture from a National Guard Major. I wonder how much this will cost just in jet fuel.
Other MJS
@dmsilev:
I hope CNN is correct.
Timothy Snyder:
Another Scott
@trollhattan: Maybe she was the smart one. I don’t see her name in a quick scan of Epstein’s Little Black Book (on Document Cloud).
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Harrison Wesley
@UncleEbeneezer: That sounds like a really good idea. Hope it works your way.
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
Best wishes on your journey, physical and non.
prostratedragon
@JoyceH: Too late to avoid that, even if PH were to cancel. You don’t forget something this stupid and dangerous.
Btw, NATO is having a commanders’ meeting that day. One wonders which USAF Gen. Grynkewich, the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe, will be expected to attend.
Baud
@Other MJS:
“Only four”?
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: Glad for you.
zhena gogolia
@UncleEbeneezer: I hope it’s helpful.
iKropoclast
@JoyceH: Maybe it’s just me and the person who showed me, but pull out a 20 and check for yourself against the picture in the OP, I guess.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I’m sorry, but that is such a pompous ass thing to say. (I know he’s popular around here.)
prostratedragon
@Geminid: They’re explicitly supposed to bring their command sergeant majors with them.
Miss Bianca
@Other MJS: Seriously, has this kind of enforced gathering of all the current senior officers *ever* happened before? I mean, even in actual war time? (Or “warrior time”, I guess we have to call it now, per Kegsbreath.)
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
It’s ok. I know I’m both pompous and popular here.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
Probably not, because it’s a dumb thing to do. But the Trump people are all about showmanship. They don’t care about protocol.
Betty
Interesting that Epstein met with his defense attorney, Reid Weingarten, the same day he met with Bannon. He must have known something was coming. I knew Weingarten in law school. He started out prosecuting public corruption. I wouldn’t have thought he would represent someone like Epstein. I know everyone is entitled to representation, but you can decide not to take a case.
ETA: I deleted b the reference to the Thiel meeting as that was in 2017, not close to the time of the arrest.
prostratedragon
@Miss Bianca: Those files really do need to be released.
narya
The other things about hauling all the brass to this meeting: first, with the looming shutdown, they may have trouble getting back to their posts, and, second, the ones who are not on board with this shit will be able to speak to each other privately w/o writing anything down.
@UncleEbeneezer: Sending all the good thoughts your way. I expect it will be difficult, but here’s hoping it also heals in (un)expected ways.
Jackie
More speculation on delaying just-elected Adelita Grijalva’s swearing in:
Other MJS
@JoyceH:
Yeah, it’s hard to imagine they would just walk into a putsch because Kegseth tells them to.
Ten Bears
Pretty convenient, given the time they’ve had to doctor the files …
Jackie
@UncleEbeneezer: Closure is good; but I know it’ll be heartbreaking at the same time. Good luck and remember the good memories. {hugs}
Baud
Let me be the first to decry the imprisoning of the generals as a distraction from the Epstein files.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I meant Tim S., but then you know that.
Marc
They are more like very good authoritarian salesmen. Just the opposite of what I would consider a very good politician.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
That doesn’t detract from my comment.
ETA: in all seriousness, I initially did think you were referring to me on a first read. It took me a sec to figure it out.
Jackie
But will FFOTUS endorse him?
Baud
@Jackie:
That would be a big downgrade for MN.
rikyrah
KCCI News
@KCCINews
BREAKING: Des Moines Public Schools Superintendent Dr. Ian Roberts has been detained by ICE, the school district confirms. Here’s what we know: t.ly/rT4Nu
x.com/KCCINews/status/1971635709493522695
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Sorry! I meant the “only four things can be true” statement.
Marc
Not at all possible before WWII as it would have taken months to pull off and was too dangerous during WWII, so that leaves the last 80 years. I don’t think so.
JoyceH
@Baud:
And what gets me is that when this crazy stuff is proposed, no one seems to make even the slightest caution that maybe it’s not such a good idea.
Can we talk about the ballroom? Sorry, but I still can’t get over the ballroom. 90,000 sq feet? Old news – now it’s 125,000 sq feet. Have you seen the renderings that show the ballroom on site, looming over the diminished White House? Has ANY Republican suggested we take another look at this idea? The thing is three or four times bigger than needed for any event you can imagine. It’s far beyond the average Walmart now, it’s equivalent to a Walmart Supercenter. And unlike the Supercenter, this behemoth is going to have gigantic windows along two walls. This is the White House so the windows will of course be bulletproof and non-functional. And this is DC, so this ridiculously unnecessary space will be a broiler for eight months out of the year and an ice box the other four. Look up at a Supercenter and you’ll see a maze of ductwork in the overhead to bring cooler or warmer air to the center of the mammoth space. Does the ballroom have that? Nope, it does not. Go into your Supercenter and picture it emptied out and then filled with tables and chairs. Stand over in groceries and picture the state dinner. The head table is on the other side of the building, over by the garden center. Would you be able to even see the head table, let alone any speaker at a podium. Nope. So – Jumbotrons? Elegant. And should you decide you might as well fill this place since you have it and start throwing massive state dinners – how long does it take to serve everyone? An hour? Two? And anything other than a massively oversized state dinner is going to look ridiculous if held here, it would look like the Fellowship in the Mines of Moria.
All of which is to say – WHY do this at all? Why why why?!
BTW, Trump has added his special stamp on the Palm Room. Missing? Palms. Now it’s a gleaming glaring expanse of ‘marble’ (when a Trump project says marble, you know that means a manufactured composite) lit by gaudy chandeliers. whimper.
Baud
@JoyceH:
Trump is Big Daddy Whiteness. No one stands up to Big Daddy Whiteness.
Jackie
@Baud: No doubt. I hope, should he run, he’s treated like the clown he is.
rikyrah
@gvg:
this is indeed who they are
NotMax
Is the Hegseth invitation marked BYOB?
//
Baud
@rikyrah:
ETA: I don’t know how someone without status becomes a fairly high level government official.
prostratedragon
@JoyceH:
Simply ineffable
RevRick
@iKropoclast: I recently watched a series about London in the Time of Dickens and one segment was on London as the seat of a colonial empire. In this segment it was mentioned that many scholars think that Dracula was a metaphor for the blowback from British imperialism. Britain sucked the life blood out of its colonies. So, the vampire returned the favor, preying upon London’s most vulnerable.
mrmoshpotato
@JoyceH: I always thought Epstein looked like a pedophile. Oh, wait…
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Can someone without legal status compete in the Olympics, as he did ?
“Prior to becoming a special education teacher, principal, district leader, and leadership trainer, Ian was a world class and Olympic Athlete, competing in track and field at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia, and World Championships in Maebashi, Japan and Seville, Spain.”
japa21
@dmsilev:
That’s basically why my son retired after 22 years as a Lt Col. He hated the politicking he saw and wanted no part of it.
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
I don’t know. I know athletes get citizenship in different countries sometimes to compete when they can’t make their home team. That would suggest that undocumented people can’t compete on their team of residence.
I guess we’ll find out.
bjacques
That should be Pedoph-Isle!
(h/t Chris Morris, Armando Iannucci, and Brass Eye)
prostratedragon
@MagdaInBlack: I saw somewhere that he’d competed for Guyana, where he was born.
Shakti
*blinks at the sewer*
There’s a lot to say, but it feels like more and more that any concern about women or children or crime is performative, endlessly fungible as words and almost always involves massive amounts of projection.
Subject change : Are Halloween costumes still a worthy form of personal expression? How would you tweak them if your neighborhood did parking lot trick or treats, instead of walking around the actual neighborhood?
I dislike the idea of edgeless costumes.
Shalimar
@Other MJS: Just because CNN confirms it will be a motivational speech by the war fighter doesn’t mean there won’t be a loyalty oath to our lord and savior Trump at the end too.
MagdaInBlack
@prostratedragon: I had not seen that. We are all speculating at this point, but he sure doesn’t seem like a crazed maniacal criminal like they tell us they are “rounding up.”
rekoob
@prostratedragon: There’s a section on Dr. Roberts’s athletic career in Wikipedia. He competed for Guyana, his country of origin. No mention of his current immigration status.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Roberts_(athlete)
HopefullyNotcassandra
@iKropoclast: I don’t see that similarity at all.
Here is Andrew Jackso
cdn.britannica.com/97/182197-050-44F262A1/oil-Andrew-Jackson-canvas-Thomas-Sully-National-1845.jpg
Baud
Gin & Tonic
Can’t we just deport all these fucking South Africans? Musk, Thiel, Sacks, these dudes are fucking anal warts.
Shalimar
@Baud: Especially an area school superintendent, which is an appointed position. We had periodic searches for new superintendents where I grew up (there was a lot of corruption and they didn’t last long), and they usually hired someone who was already a superintendent for a smaller school system somewhere else.
patrick II
Wow, I didn’t know the near complete absence of government regulation demanded by libertarians included regulations against child-fucking.
They Call Me Noni
Oooh, dirty pots and pans!!!
prostratedragon
@MagdaInBlack: Yes, per the same article I think, they’re quite upset in Des Moines, suggesting even in this benighted era that he’s nothing like a gangster type.
rekoob
@rekoob: Actually, I stand corrected. An update on Wikipedia says that an order for final removal was issued in May 2024. Who knows?
jonas
On top of all this, Thiel has been going around recently giving talks about how anyone who *opposes* the brave, new AI/MAGA surveillance world he’s helping Trump build is….the Antichrist!
Dude is fucking nuttier than a truck full of squirrel shit.
Shakti
@Gin & Tonic:
*Tsk tsk due process*
In voter outreach my gunfluencer rep put out a flyer talking about preparing for hurricane season. :/
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: I vote yes!
Matt McIrvin
@patrick II: oh, there’s a lot of amazingly creepy stuff in that subculture, some of it about this.
Geminid
@Shalimar: We’ll know soon enough if there is such an oath. Hegseth can’t bring that many people together without something like that come out.
Even if this meeting comes off as projected I expect there will be plenty of complaints from.the attendees. They know reporters and officeholders so those complaints will come out.
Hegseth could be the big loser in this affair. Just the inordinate expense involved will be discreditable considering that the military has remote links as good or better than Zoom.
So this could be a third mark against Hegseth. The first was the Signal Chat during the opening of the offensive against the Houthis, and the second was the crappy 4th of July parade he staged for Trump. Plus, reports are that Hegseth is drinking again when he promised he’d stopped.
I have a hunch Hegseth won’t be there six months from now. That is, unless Trump is planning a putsch and needs a loyalist in the SecDef position.
Baud
@Geminid:
So 50/50?
prostratedragon
@rekoob:
Be surprising if Des Moines never checked that out. ICE is saying the knids of things that often have proved less than meets the eye. And per this article, it’s not even clear where he’s being held. More:
Miss Bianca
@prostratedragon: This smells like just so much unadulterated bullshit, to me.
gene108
I once would’ve been excited corrupt rich people would get what’s coming to them, but I doubt Musk, Bannon, and Thiel will face any consequences.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
What doesn’t work these people?
All we can do is wait and see.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: 😂
pieceofpeace
@UncleEbeneezer: Enjoy the trip! Altadena had good coffee spots, too. We drove all around it last December, had a fun time there.
XeckyGilchrist
@patrick II: there’s a good reason for all the “technically, it’s ephebeophilia” jokes
iKropoclast
Bring your own bondage?
Timill
@Miss Bianca: It’s almost like there are two different Ian Roberts being described…
iKropoclast
Ah, the standard planted evidence kit. Lazy asses probably just wrote it down and didn’t bother actually planting anything.
gene108
@JoyceH:
So Trump can never be forgotten. The biggest part of the White House will Trump’s addition. Every future picture of the White House will include the ballroom.
It’s like the Egyptian pharaohs building the Great Pyramids. A monument to display how important he was in life.
iKropoclast
@gene108: White House Tour Guide: see the beautiful Colonial-Era architecture, then this giant box dwarfing the entire structure is Trump’s legacy….
Shalimar
What are the odds that Epstein turns out to be one of the major links between Russians and people like Thiel and Bannon working to get Trump elected in 2016, without Epstein continuing to have contact with Trump himself during this period?
patrick II
A while back Musk asserted on X that Donald Trump was named in the Epstein files. That post seemed to increase demands to publish the Epstein documents. Why would Musk do that if he’s in there too?
Interesting Name Goes Here
@UncleEbeneezer: As I have said before and will keep saying until it’s finally understood in a meaningful manner, today’s Progressives have severe problems when it comes to vetting people to represent them. Many are just in it for the glory and the show, and those that want power and a seat at the table eventually switch to the Right at the first opportunity. The entire movement needs an intervention.
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
It is hard to return to a disaster area.
It can also be very good to visit, just to see how people move on.
Because we have to move on to help maintain humanity and where humanity lives. CA is a place where this happens sometimes more than other places because of the size of the population and the makeup of the area. I lived in an area of SoCal, on the northwest side and northwest of us was houses on the other side of the street and then mountain wilderness, such as it is in the northwest outskirts of SoCal. Not high altitude but a lot of hills, rocks, dirt and a few desert plants. The view was amazing, could see the ocean and the islands. We once had a fire on a hillside north of us. No houses burned but could have been and we could have lost everything.
prostratedragon
@iKropoclast: It’s a kit. The cash needs an inflation adjustment to seem hatdcore, though.
prostratedragon
@Shalimar: High.
Trivia Man
@Other MJS: missing from the list: disclose the presence of extra-terrestrial aliens on earth and share their technology and knowledge.
Ruckus
@patrick II:
Maybe he feels like he didn’t do anything but know some people. And getting out front of the issue might give him some cover. Won’t if he’s involved but if it’s just that he knows someone that did, he could be in trouble – or not. Maybe he thinks getting out in front early on might help him. OTOH, maybe not.
Ruckus
@Marc:
I could be 1000% wrong but I think this happened not long after the Vietnam war was over. Far easier to tell everyone at once what to do next than have it have to over and over again.
patrick II
@Ruckus:
one or the other or maybe not. O.K. got it.
Ruckus
@patrick II:
He might already know he is so is it better to look like you are helping than just being a douchebag?
UncleEbeneezer
@pieceofpeace: Sadly my fave, Cafe De Leche, burned down in the fire (along with most of the buildings around it on Lake). We still get their coffee subscription delivered to Taos though :)
UncleEbeneezer
@narya: I know the drive up my old route home will be brutal and my actual block…I will probably totally lose it, but that’s also kind of the point. Though we’ve had our times of crying here and there, I still feel like I have a ton of it bottled up. So part of it is a cathartic, rip-the-band-aid-off kind of thing. But I also want to see Altadena before it becomes completely unrecognizable once the rebuilding gets going full steam. While the scars are still there. To bear witness. If that makes sense.
David Collier-Brown
@iKropoclast: Nope, I pretty well know all the old guys (I’m from 1644) , and Jackson didn’t join.
Gvg
@patrick II: He is nuttier than a fruitcake.
there are a lot of reports of whose in there but previous evidence has shown Epstein kept records even of ordinary things like plumbers and other repair men. He also liked collecting visits from famous connected people that had nothing to do with his sleeze so that he could use their need to protect their own reputations to protect himself. He gave large amounts to their charities to get them to visit him. I am pretty sure that is why Clinton visited him. This tactic was reported years ago. So some of the people in his files are not going to have anything to do with Epstein’s nasty side, and we should expect that.
laura
@UncleEbeneezer: Brother. Please prepare your senses to see the burn scars and the scent of fire and ash. It is tough for me still driving to and through Sonoma County. Steel your heart, stay loose, enjoy the Mexican Food you knew and still crave. You’ll probably see enough things and people to break your heart, and bouy your heart all over again. Via con Dios brother.
Eyeroller
@gene108: This is something of a rhetorical question, but I’d still like to understand why he’s being allowed to do this with no oversight. It’s not his personal property. It’s a historical property owned by the US government. Why the fuck does every President have seemingly total control over modifications to the building and grounds? What difference does it make that it’s “privately funded” (ha ha).
People who buy ordinary personal houses that are listed on registers of historical properties are not allowed to modify their permanent homes to this extent, and this asshole can do whatever the fuck he wants to this building? Whyyy?
Out of all the outrages of this adminstration, I don’t know why this enrages me so disproportionately much. Maybe it’s metaphorical.
NeenerNeener
@Eyeroller: Maybe it’s because that thing will be there, making the White House look unbalanced, long after TACO is gone. It’s not going to be cheap to tear it down and rebuild the East Wing so it probably won’t happen right away.
Lapassionara
@JoyceH: Ditto!
Lapassionara
@Eyeroller: Ditto!
Kristine
@narya:
I’ve been wondering what the military can do when faced with a seriously incompetent Sec Def? Are malicious obedience/losing the paperwork the only options?
patrick II
@Gvg:
It has worked up until now.