I was raised Irish; letting go of grievances is not in my skill set…
Alright, let's make a thread out of this.
Biden robbed them of their sense of control in 2020. They delight in being kingmakers, in their endorsements or lack thereof making or breaking campaigns. And yes, they all view each other as part of one big club, regardless of company. https://t.co/6QERphok9l
— Argella Stone (@argellastone) July 4, 2024
In 2020 Biden was not supposed to win the nomination, it was supposed to be someone popular in the club, or at least someone they’d have fun playing with, and he humiliated them and their friends in the club by winning in spite of their rejection.
Barack Obama was, briefly, palatable to them because he was useful in the 2008 primary. They had a grudge against Hillary dating back to the 90s and he swooped in and won the nomination everyone thought was hers, and they enjoyed convincing themselves they won it for him.
This part is crucial. They genuinely firmly believed that they won it for Obama. That without their help, he wouldn’t have won it at all. And that thrill was like a drug. And they lashed out like addicts whenever anyone tried taking it away from them.
Remember early on in the Obama admin when they iced out Fox News in response to them blatantly lying about the admin’s goals? CNN lashed out against him, MSNBC. Fucking Jon Stewart dedicated an entire monologue to chewing him out over it. Because he hurt their friends. The club.
And the admin stood down and begrudgingly let Fox back in, even though they spent the rest of his administration spewing blatant lies and vitriol against him. But that more or less satisfied the club, because they felt he remembered who the boss was.
Biden can’t do that for them. Nothing he can say or do can ever make them forgive him for making them feel weak by having the audacity to win. They’ve been twitching for this moment for three and a half years, begging for it. Because they are narcissistic little freaks.
People need to calm down. The media is going to push relentlessly the narrative that Biden is down in the polls and cannot win because they have a massive profit incentive to do so. You need to recognize this and ignore them. Push hard for the Dems and we will succeed. A 🧵.
— Not a Good Jewish Girl 🇮🇱✡️ (@estherzelda0514) July 12, 2024
Think about it rationally. Republicans are uninterested in pieces about how Trump is bad, and Dems don’t click enough on them. What are both demographics interested in? Dems in disarray and Biden/Dems are bad pieces. This creates a doom loop.
The news reports on what gets them ad revenue and clicks. The more they whip Dems into a frenzy, the more you click on the news and read their pieces, even if you’re trying to debunk them or avoid panicking by reading past the headline.
You need to resist this urge to feed the beast. Don’t participate in the doom loop. Do not click on or share these stories. The good news is that we have enormous power to kill this narrative and force the media to pivot to Trump’s many many issues.
You just need to be disciplined and encourage people out of the doom loop. Share stories about how Biden is doing well, good poll results, and stuff like Project 2025. Create the vibes you want to see in the world. Don’t give in to the feelings of hopelessness.
“The press conference never mattered to the ruling class. They had already made their decision, based on a single snapshot in time, and nothing—not even nuanced policy discussion that Biden’s opponent is wholly incapable of—was going to change their minds.” https://t.co/BDn8ttRm7r
— Angry Staffer 🌻 (@Angry_Staffer) July 12, 2024
Angry Staffer on “A Republic, If You Can Keep It”:
… As I sat watching last night’s press conference, I felt optimistic for the first time in what felt like weeks. Biden was doing really well. Not fantastic, but well enough. He was answering every question, displaying a mastery of the facts, weaving in and out of complex foreign policy issues, talking about world leaders and their individual personalities, and yes, making the occasional gaffe – he is still Joe Biden, after all.
This felt OK. It didn’t matter that if this Joe Biden had shown up to the debate two weeks ago, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Surely, this would help quiet – though certainly not silence – the calls for Biden’s political head, right?
Wrong. Before the final reverberations of his microphone fully dulled, milquetoast Democrats began hitting send on their preloaded Tweets, once again demanding that he withdraw from the race for the good of the country.
Early this morning, donors began saying they would withhold pledges if he remained the nominee…
Are we really going to push out one of the best Presidents in modern history because he’s old, while we ignore the hypergrifting charlatan with 34 felonies and an authoritarian bent, all because he’s three years younger?
If you can keep it, indeed.
Suddenly, I wonder if we can.
To be clear, the consequences of this election — of any election — are too dire to sit it out. I’m going to fight like hell to elect whoever the Democratic nominee is, and you should too.
It would just be really nice if Democrats could tone down the circular firing squad for the sake of the nation, particularly when there’s no clear, alternative path to victory.
JWR
Speaking of pushing back on “The Club”, I caught a bit of last night’s PBS News Hour, and I’ll put up a link directly to Jonathan Capehart’s answer to the bedwetter caucus. It’s only a few minutes long, but they’re minutes well spent.
And then came Amanpour & Co., who opened the show with noted neurologist Paul Begala telling us that we all know that it’s that time, that it’s time to have “the talk” with grandpa, telling him that we love him and thank him but we can’t let him drive anymore, either his car or the country, because of ollllld! Nevermind all that Biden’s done, nevermind that he seemed capable of doing more of the same just three weeks ago. Just nevermind
[ETA YikES! I didn’t want to be foist!]
prostratedragon
Not on topic, but awesome: Pres. Biden shares a recent image from the Webb telescope.
Lacuna Synecdoche
Not A Good Jewish Girl (@estherzelda0514) via Anne Laurie @ Top:
It’s beyond that at this point.
They predicted that Democrats can’t win with Biden at the top of the ticketed, and demanded that he be replaced.
Now, if Biden isn’t replaced, they have to make sure he loses, just to prove: they were right.
Yes, it really is that petty.
WereBear
@Lacuna Synecdoche: It would be my pleasure to participate in their incompetent irrelevance being brought out into the open.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone 😊 😊 😊
JWR
I see that Tim Scott has reentered the building! I know the “good” money is on Burgum, but I still think Scott has a chance. Not sure why, Hell, I can see Trump using him as a shoeshine boy. But it’s just a hunch, so who knows?
rikyrah
Please remember, in 2020, before the South Carolina primary, Joe Biden was told to drop out by these clowns.
They were salivating at the prospect of a Bernie win, because they could continue being Orange Menace stenographers.
You need to go to back to the night of the South Carolina primary.
Look at their faces
Across the board.
South Carolina was called at 7:02 EST
They were stunned. It wasn’t supposed to happen. And, then it was sort of dismissed, because Super Tuesday would happen, and Bernie would get back on track.
As Super Tuesday came… their faces were even more cracked as Biden gathered more states.
They had written Biden off, and here he was winning . They have been angry with the Black base ever since.😒
sab
I used to like Vox. Then they hired Constance O’Grady as their culture person. She follows the herd and reviews books she hasn’t actually read. The usual.
Now they are lemmings off the cliff with Biden being old. I am done.
Miraculously, our local cable news (via Spectrum) has been pretty good and vastly better than Time Warner.
Spectrum is big on showcasing what local businesses are doing. All the news that our local newspaper should be covering but cannot be bothered with.
The PGA bailed on Firestone Country Club a few years back but there is a Senior Golf event this week and the local paper never even mentionned it. So turnout was terrible. These golf events used to be huge for local business. It would be nice if our local paper was aware if that. But no.
EZSmirkzz
What Digby says:
The pollings are rigged ;-)
Ramalama
@rikyrah: Couple weeks ago I was at a dinner party in Quebec (where I live) attended by some writers. Journalist trained in Paris talked to me about Joe Biden’s age and I said, “The black people of South Carolina made up their minds about Biden, and went for him. The rest of the Democrats fell in line.”
He had not heard about that. He just thought Biden was a given from the first moment, and wondered why.
My uncle in Massachusetts talked to me about Joe Biden, Cornpop, and how Jim Clyburn had decided to go all in for Biden. He thought because of this, Biden was the guy. Urged me to vote Biden. I was still in the Eliz Warren camp. But seeing Super Tuesday, woah. Woah.
When the media uproar after the debate got fevered and speckled I started reading Black Twitter and calmed down some. I mean, I’m still put off by the Pod Save Guys. Have not listened to news (Canada gets USA channels).
Yeah.
sab
@rikyrah: I remember when Joe Biden was the boring guy on Sunday morning talk shows. Every Sunday there he was, making sense.
Then South Carolina primary.
He won!
Chris Johnson
I mean, just consider the possibility that it’s not some sociological thing, but us being at war and not admitting it publically.
If all the media operations starting with newspapers went broke in the age of the internet (and this started MANY years ago) they’d be hotbeds of inflated egos, grievance, and desperation for money. Those that didn’t just close up shop (many did!)
If an imperialist nation such as Russia, steeped in conspiracy thinking (see LazerPig’s ‘How To Kill A God’), was trying to be manipulative to manufacture consent for very old school imperialist ambitions, they might blanket a place like London with oligarchs until it’s nicknamed Londongrad, but it’s HARD to impress British Aristocracy with money. Buying control of media is much, much cheaper! You can buy everything from the Grey Lady to a raft of rabblerousing youtubers! It’s insanely cheap to do when you’re throwing oligarch money at people going out of business or barely holding on.
Sometimes the production values are a tipoff. Sometimes the tipoff is what I’ll call ‘media training’, but we’re not talking ‘how to be like Dan Rather or Linda Ellerbee’. There’s also training in how to badger people and just bluster ’em with bullshit, like a Gish Gallop but while intentionally larding your onslaught with debatey, implicit assumptions you’re trying to implant, because you’re actually a conspiracy loon trying to manufacture a narrative and it’s a war so you don’t rightly give a fuck about if anything is real.
It’s like ‘since everyone agrees Joe Biden’s teeth are stinking and rotted, what action should the Democrats take to address the issue? Is it necessary for Joe Biden to leave public life because his teeth are stinking and rotted, or will it be enough for Joe Biden to not open his mouth and reveal that his teeth are stinking and rotted? We have five anonymous sources who fainted at the stench from Biden’s stinking and rotted teeth. Here’s a daring proposal from a loyalist who must remain anonymous, saying that the Biden administration is determined to turn the script around: do you think Biden can win on a platform of, my teeth are stinking and rotted because I eat nothing but gruel while fighting for your rights? We are reliably told top aides are knocking their teeth out in solidarity…’
Media training means ability to couch a narrative in plain sight and talk all around it even though the payload being carried is a LIE.
Because it’s war. And this is a kind of fighting, not ‘people may legitimately agree’. These people think they learned it from the CIA, which they still are full of conspiracy-brained fears of. They are fighting ‘back’ using the tools they think were used on them. And it’s all a pathetic pile of shit and doesn’t actually work, it just makes everything worse without delivering victory.
Otherwise Britain would still be run by Russia-backed Tories, and France would be Le Pen’s. It doesn’t WORK. It just makes quality of life shit for a while and confuses everyone.
Fight by making good governance, democracy, and talking sense. Mockery is good too! And above all, stop thinking that just because something is a mainstream narrative, it must therefore be authentic. LOOK at what happened. LOOK at ‘her emails’! It’s just war being fought in a more stupid manner.
TBone
“I welcome their hatred.”
The IRS is back, and they’re doing tax collecting from *GASP* the high income bracket! Oh noes! Of course the oligarchs have it in for President Biden. Taxes are like kryptonite for them!
https://www.wonkette.com/p/surprise-the-irs-found-1-billion
PS who owns the media? Rich guys?
Ramalama
@EZSmirkzz:
This part from Digby is well put / put well?
TBone
France and the U.K. have shown us the way this year, and very recently, I might add. Coalesce.
Ramalama
@Chris Johnson: Yes! And mockery is just what the …doctor (gerontologist?) ordered.
sab
@Chris Johnson: Fiona Hill, who knows this stuff since it is her area of expertise, thinks we have been ‘at war’ with Russia for years. Russians know it. We don’t.
TBone
We will be the news we want to see in the world. Turn off the narrative and make yourself a happy warrior. It gets under a bully’s skin to see someone fighting doom and fear while smiling. A little happy whistle doesn’t hurt either.
Gvg
I don’t know if we aren’t overthinking it because we are so pissed at the media for multiple failures over decades.
However they could be feeling scared and powerless due to the FACT that they have lost power and many of them have gone bankrupt over the last couple of decades. Fact is Trumps chaos does slightly increase their sales and readership. The whole industry is in trouble and it’s not Biden’s fault, or even Trumps or the republicans as far as I can see. So maybe they aren’t in the best place to make long term best decisions for national interests that are similar to everyone else’s. Also they would not see economic prosperity even while most of the rest of us and the statistics do. That will slant their reporting I bet.
I just get so sick of shallow entertainment reporting. I feel like I understand less than I could if someone actually explained it to me concisely and clearly. I don’t write or talk concisely myself, but I do appreciate it in others. I can tell when they are wasting time on non important things like how someone is dressed or horse race stuff.
Chris Johnson
@Ramalama: People need to get it into their heads that black people watched Joe Biden support his BOSS Barack Obama for eight YEARS, during which good things happened (Obamacare!).
In a country where men who look like Biden can easily be racist fucks, that is a very good, VERY legitimate reason to trust and support a man. It is earned. Never mind that he was also helping to do work that helped the country a huge amount. You can do that by accident but a racist fuck will not faithfully support a Black boss by accident. It speaks to character.
I am saying that because, as another white old biden-type man (not as Irish, but some Finnish and Swedish in there), I can’t help but notice a HUGE amount of narrative out there trying to paint the Black support for Biden as plantation-brained obedience. I don’t know how much of it is aimed at Black voters, and I don’t know how much of it is actually aimed at racists in order to DISCREDIT the loyalty of Black voters. But I’ve been seeing it for a long time, and it feels like narrative.
I’m just saying, respect is earned, and to a certain kind of person that I despise, it is kind of unthinkable that a white man would work for a Black boss, much less work faithfully and fight for the man’s achievements and legacy. And Joe did, which lowers him in the estimation of horrible racist fucks, but is hard for Black voters to forget.
Even if they are being outright told they are probably serving him because they’re slaves and he looks like the right kind of white man to tell them what to do. That’s gotta leave a foul taste, when that narrative goes out. Worse if it’s actually meant for a white audience, to explain away the loyalty in a worse than infantilizing manner…
EZSmirkzz
@Ramalama:
Agreed. Digby is an OG blogger like John,
sab
@rikyrah: I remember SC primary. I was Warren. SC results came in and I was Biden all the way. Still am.
sab
@EZSmirkzz: What is an OG blogger? Old here, not knowing labels.
TBone
@sab: original gangsta
pajaro
This is the most exasperating couple of weeks I can remember. Biden has spent them doing what people said he needed to do. He’s done interviews, a press conference, off the cuff addresses, rallies, speeches to the NATO summit, while he’s been working to try and get Israel and Hamas to a framework agreement for a cease fire. He’s been the same guy that he was before the debate, proving that what happened at the debate was a bad night, not a new normal. The public polls that we commoners have been able to see show that things haven’t changed much in the past two weeks–we’re still close to tied, and Biden is slightly behind in some of the purple states he won last time. There’s still more than three months before the election. The people who are asking him to step down act as if none of this has actually happened. I feel like they are gaslighting me. If they have data that shows Biden’s support has cratered, why in the world aren’t they sharing it?
And what they are asking Biden to do is to assist in the suicide of the Democratic Party and our democracy. You can’t ask him to withdraw and replace him with nobody. The process they are suggesting is some West Wing fantasy. None of the people they are suggesting have stepped forward and said they are interested. Whitmer has said she won’t do it. As bad as 1968 and 1980 were, there were actual candidates who had actual support in the party who were trying to replace the President. Here, there is literally no one who has said they are interested, and there has been no groundswell of support for any replacement other than Johnny Unbeatable.
Our elected leaders–Schumer, Pelosi, Jeffries, as well as Obama, need to step forward, in public, and help us get out of this doomloop, one way or the other, and they need to do it now. If they believe it’s Biden’s decision, they should accept that he’s made it, stand by his side in person, and publicly support him. If they think he needs to go, and we need to do some Hail Mary play risking everything, they need to share that play with us and be ready to make the case to the delegates why this needs to happen.
Chris Johnson
@sab: I’ve been saying it for years but there’s been a time when… put it this way. I drifted into ‘dirtbag left’ circles post-Bernie, which had a big crossover with 4chan-like thinking.
That’s where I saw the anti-Liz-Warren narrative manufactured, all that snake stuff, and the discipline and dogpiling of it… but I saw something else. If you hinted at what Russia was doing (which is now mighty well established and CURIOUSLY even now not much reported upon), there would be a few cries of ‘Russiagate!’ and ensuing mockery.
And an army of bots would come, and bury the fuck out of you INSTANTLY. This was on reddit, where you can downvote stuff, and it’ll get hidden if it gets enough downvotes. If you suggested a hidden Russian troll army was manipulating people, IT APPEARED and you’d suddenly have hundreds, thousands of downvotes, and the story was that you’d lost your mind and were stupid, Russiagate kek. (kek is 4chan-ese for ‘LOL’: it’s a simple letter-shift used in a video game to obscure messages of the enemy team where you’re supposed to see them but not be able to read them)
Just because it’s a stupid way to wage war doesn’t mean it’s not real. Russia has thought if it does that enough, when they invade a country the people of the country, swayed by ‘Russiagate kek’ and the influence operations, will rise up and join Russia. It literally does this and it’s not worked ever. It just makes a mess.
But it’s the precursor to Russia trying to use military force to annex territory in the traditional way, which they follow up with. They would absolutely invade here if they thought they’d keked enough to get away with it. ‘Alaska is ours kek’
TBone
Speaking of happy warriors, Propublica is still out here doing God’s work.
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-ziklag-secret-christian-charity-2024-election
I’m not saying Tax The Churches. Oh wait, yes I am! Cancel these fucks.
Ishiyama
I have nothing to contribute that has not already been said. G-d Almighty can remove Joe Biden from the ballot, but nothing less. He will die fighting. Thank heavens for stubborn old white men.
matt
Thing is, these media princelings aren’t popular. Biden can succeed by running against this group of media fuckfaces, big money donors and David Axelrods as a bunch of elite, rich scum who don’t represent the voters.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
If you want to be really cynical – since most of the polls are commissioned by these same MSM outfits, they are designed to show Biden is unpopular, the reason why the panic came from a specific demographic of Democratic voter was because The Narrative had been focus group tested over three years to work on that demographic, and because they weren’t the target group, this is why the Blacks saw right threw it.
And after I wrote that last line, I realized it failed because of the MSM media own damn racist trope of the magic negro, so the black saying fuck no was the only thing that would penetrate these media victim’s brains. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick this whole thing is stupid.
WereBear
@sab: Started with the century, really. We all knew W stole the election.
prostratedragon
@Chris Johnson: I see you share my high opinion of these “masterminds.”
matt
George Clooney can leave his Italian villa and come by my house and try to tell me who to vote for, and I’ll happily punch him in his nose job. Who elected him? His money doesn’t put him in charge.
WereBear
Shoutout to my favorite OG Bloggers, DriftGlass and Blue Gal, who have a Professional Left podcast.
Chris Johnson
No longer matters, you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.
They’re not bankrupt because they’re debtors: they’re in for billions of dollars to Putin, and Putin is calling in his favors. The people who are guilty of this including some of the biggest names and broke-est legacy media properties, no longer get to maintain plausible deniability. In fact they don’t even get to use their judgement. They’re stuck doing the bidding of a complete asshole.
Watch what happened in the interview with Tucker Carlson and Putin. Carlson has ALWAYS worked for Putin pushing the desired narratives (usually civil war and how shit everything is without Trump). He’s even gone around enthusing about the wonders of Russian supermarkets: he is plainly a reasonably bright and savvy traitor, fully committed to serving Putin every way he can.
But when he interviews Putin, he’s trying like hell to make Putin give sound bites THAT WILL HELP HIM in America. Carlson knows full well what Putin needs to say. He’s feeding the lines, but Putin isn’t biting. Putin is full of contempt and just drones on about history, and it’s an absolute shitshow as far as propaganda is concerned.
It’s like that with the media now. They know they could be doing this in a smarter way, but the guy yanking their chain is like, NO. You say THIS. And so they do, chafing, sure they could do it better, but he’s got ’em over a barrel, and they hammer the talking points Putin says they must hammer, and it reverberates out into the second-order media, and it doesn’t matter that it’s not working because Putin is sure if you just clap loud enough, Tinkerbell will appear and start the civil war as all the dumb Americans revolt against the doddering old man, ashamed to be seen with him.
TBone
Bob Ross is my spirit animal today. 😊
sab
@TBone: thank you. everyone assumes we all know everything, and many of us don’t.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Chris Johnson: One of the things Cohen said during his testimony during the Stormy Daniels trial wast he was hiring companies rig polls to favor Trump like you just described.
rikyrah
@Chris Johnson:
There is a viral tweet with a Facebook post that says something similar to what you wrote. Joe Biden wasn’t just Obama’s Vice President, but we never saw him undermine Obama in 8 years. Can’t tell you what that means to the Black community .so, yes, we have Biden’s back.
WereBear
I think our true enemy has revealed themselves.
American didn’t respect Walter Cronkite because he looked good on tv. He had been a war correspondent and had a way of delivering the news a lot of people liked. But journalists were also held to standards then. We had a Fair Use doctrine in place, and news was licensed.
lowtechcyclist
@sab:
She’s absolutely right. Russia’s been at war with us for awhile, visibly so since 2016. How long before that, I have no idea, but I’m sure Ms. Hill could give chapter and verse on that. I’ve come to think of it as Cold War II.
sab
Very hot here, so I am bowing out on stuff I should do today.
I am old. I feel like I am wasting my remaining life away by acknowleding heat.I don’t do stuff when it is hot.
Geminid
@Chris Johnson: Are you familiar with Jackie Singh? She is a computer security maven with a lively Twitter account. Singh talks a lot about AI bot networks and I bet you’d appreciate her writing.
Yesterday in the “PSA: Postcards and Open Thread,” Mousebumbles(sp?) linked to a tweet of Singh’s in which she gave examples of questions that can be used to identify an AI bot.
OzarkHillbilly
Via commenter Jen over at OTB comes this little gem:
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lowtechcyclist: It goes longer than that, the Great Game between Britain and Russia.
sixthdoctor
Around 7pm yesterday I was convinced that Joe would have to drop and nothing was going to stop Dems from forcing him out. Then two hours later I heard about the Michigan rally. Maybe I should just get “Do not underestimate Joe Biden” tattooed on my chest Memento-style.
geg6
@lowtechcyclist:
Yes, Cold War 2.0 is what I’ve been calling it. Instead of just relying on spies, they’ve assembled a bot army.
TBone
@sab: yours in service,
TBone
Chris Johnson
@lowtechcyclist: If you watch what the Russia-controlled ones did with COVID, it stops being entirely a cold war. That said, they were also victims of their own narrative there: Russians were suspicious of vaccination too, but then it’s not like they had great vaccines as quickly so it was presumably collateral damage.
All the same people pushing for civil war and race war and narrativizing the decline of western civilization got heavy into anti-vaxx, and some of them (for instance, Jimmy Dore) made anti-vaxx their main thing. It’s basically to make as many Typhoid Marys on American soil as possible: not just infect people, but have ’em angrily running around infecting others and denying it’s a big deal, raging at masks etc.
Dore was also a primary force behind the ill-fated ‘Force The Vote’ in which he tried to get left-wingers to force AOC etc. to wreck the government if lefties were not given a pony. This went over like a fart in church, because AOC etc. are in fact real, not puppets. But the attempt at control was made.
Tony Jay
I’m of the opinion it’s really that complicated.
Every major news and entertainment outlet is owned by sickeningly rich oligarchs and/or profit seeking hedge funds ‘unionising’ the wealth of people further down the financial food chain. Those people as a class benefit in the short term from right-wing government tax cuts and attacks on the rights of little people.
So this isn’t ’bad reporting’ or anything accidental. It’s a class war and the corporate media is a weapons platform. Shots are being fired. Damage is being done.
Everything else is just painting a face on a bomb.
TBone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: good eye!
TBone
@OzarkHillbilly: 😆😆😆
BellyCat
@Gvg:
Anybody recall analysis somewhere from years back that showed FTFNYT subscriptions either doubled or tripled (can’t recall exact number) with TCFG?
Media profit incentive is much larger than believed.
TBone
Big Gretch was just on Moanin’ Joe. Gawd I love her! Her new book is titled “True Gretch,” and if anyone has true grit, it is that woman.
She is the epitome of Happy Warrior.
sab
@sab: I intend to spend this hot weekend on my back in bed claws up like a dead cockroach.
artem1s
@WereBear: I would argue it started with the Kennedy/Nixon debate. The MSM saw one TV appearance take down the presumptive nominee in an instant. It also lead to a lot of Good Hair politicians imagining that looks = winning = good governance. Then there was Raygun’s ‘there you go again’ and the MSM was all in on the ‘debate moment’ theory of picking a president. And feeding frenzy of the Dean Scream absolutely convinced them of their power. The seeds of it may even be tracked to Murrow taking down McCarthy who everyone was scared of confronting.
TBone
@sab: that is to be commended. Self care is a good deed! Revel in it!
The only things in life that truly last are dirt and work. They’ll be there when you’re ready.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, but in an American way. This is the billionaires are upset the lower classes aren’t constantly kissing their ass and praising them. They know the rest of us mock them as fail sons.
The Dark Avenger
I’ve come to realize that both physicians and media people have this “Respect mah authority “ complex that comes out when there’s pushback from us commoners who dare to question their Suzerainty over the discussion at hand.
artem1s
@Chris Johnson: Biden is responsible for reinstating the Russian sanctions too. And now the NATO nations are helping him by using their seized property to help Ukraine. Anyone who thinks Russia didn’t put their thumbs on the scales in 2016 is a fool. The ONLY thing TCFG insisted on adding to the GOP platform at the convention was that the Russian sanctions over invading Crimea be lifted. Donnie small hands owed Putin a favor and he delivered.
bbleh
If indeed we (ie Republicans / voters) do, it won’t be because “he’s three years younger.” It’ll be because he’s an overt misogynist, racist, homophobic xenophobe who, like Mussolini, gives his followers “permission to be their worst selves.”
A lot of them want to be *ssholes, so they’ll support an *sshole because then it means they can. Republicans, sadly, have become the *sshole party.
Tony Jay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It’s all over. I saw this playbook achieve its aims in the UK between 2016 and 2020, and today you can find the ‘liberal’ UK media going 110% all-in on the Get Biden effort with headlines weeping bitter tears over US reporters feeling ‘misled’ by the White House over Biden’s health.
It’s always about money. They want all of it, and anything standing in the way of that can and will be destroyed, co-opted or corrupted along the way.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@TBone: Well it wasn’t me, the lawyers were saying that it was Trump’s own lawyer who brought it up and it was clear that was why the MAGA hat on the jury changed his vote to guilty.
WereBear
@sab: I use a kennel mat, for cooling off, which can help me get to sleep. Can be put under a sheet and still work.
And it can’t over-cool you, I don’t think. The gel turns your temperature, so it won’t over-cook you, either.
WereBear
@artem1s: I agree with your assessment. McCarthy was a creature of the press.
Eyeroller
@Tony Jay: I don’t have a twitter account and can’t link to tweets, but the Pitchbot had one:
A narrative has taken hold or not. As a journalist it is not my place to judge the accuracy of the narrative. My sole duty is to repeat the narrative to you.
Biden has shown multiple times since The Debate that he’s mentally perfectly fine. He’s aged a bit in the past four years but that’s hardly been “hidden.” But the Narrative must be obeyed.
TBone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: it was you who remembered it. Not easy sometimes in the onslaught!
EZSmirkzz
@sab: Old Guard or Old Guy, but I think she would prefer the former. She started blogging back when no one new what a blog was, in the early aughts. MyDD was one of the first ones that I’m aware of. dKos was inspired by MyD(iligent)D(uty), and modeled on /., which open sourced its format so everyone could have a blog with comments.
I was raising hell on the WaPo forum at the time, and familiar with the flame wars of the newsgroups, which was based, essentially on the politics of confrontation of the 60’s.
(Imma wealth of useless information) :-)
Ramalama
@artem1s: Emptywheel (Marcy Wheeler) and LOLGOP have linked up to do a podcast called Ball of Thread talking about the vast collaboration / infiltration of useful idiots and Russia to help themselves and Trump. Podcast #3 was, for me, easier to follow than the other two. But still very good.
RevRick
@Ramalama: Not only is Trump spewing fascist rhetoric, but the silence of GOP officials is telling. For me, it says that they are in fact all in. The party is now fascist from top to bottom.
Which means that the whole GOP spits on the graves of the 16 million WW2 veterans who fought to crush fascism in Germany, Italy, and Japan. Every single God-damned one of them.
Which means that the MSM, with their relentless focus on Biden’s age and thus providing cover for the blatant and growing fascism within the GOP, also spits on the graves of the WW2 veterans.
Chief Oshkosh
@sab:
Really? Man, nobody assumes that I know everything. In fact, I think my wife mentioned something this morning about me not knowing ANYTHING. Something like that — I wasn’t really paying attention.
;)
Mark Leeder
OMG – Is there anyone at this site that will stop gaslighting us and acknowledge that we saw what we saw at the debate? I live in West Michigan and know many Democrats and none of us think Biden can win Michigan after the debate. I’ve looked at this site almost daily for 20 years. How can there not be one commentator who breaks ranks? Group think?
TBone
Good news, we’re working on it!
https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/nih-sponsored-trial-of-nasal-covid-19-vaccine-opens/48873/
Ramalama
@Chris Johnson: Very good. I will be among people again (much to my dismay; I love people but tend to avoid them) who will likely talk to me about USA politics. And this part you wrote will likely be said by yours truly (if your ears are burning later today, you’ll know why):
Tony Jay
@Eyeroller:
It’s worse than that. Every ‘journalist’ is incentivised to add to the Narrative, and knows they will be punished not just for contradicting it, but for ever even hinting that the Narrative exists. It’s a Cult as bad as any other and the cult leaders will not be challenged.
In that milieu, Russian bots and pay to play are considered far more legitimate and respectable than genuine ‘people power’ because ‘Rule of Savvy’.
TBone
This is paywalled but fuck this fucking guy. Tax him into submission!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-12/elon-musk-donates-to-trump-tapping-vast-fortune-to-swing-2024-race
It’s a good thing it’s paywalled – I can’t read the dollar amount(s).
Europe is prosecuting 😊
https://www.npr.org/2024/07/12/g-s1-9944/eu-takes-elon-musks-x-to-court-over-blue-checks-and-ads
lowtechcyclist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Sure, in the sense that having a right to empire is a thread that originated with the Tsars and only briefly got set down in the years following 1989 and 1991.
But I’d have a hard time characterizing that as Cold War Zero or some such: nobody in the West viewed that as a threat to the West, just a matter of how much of that Central Asian land would be colonized by whom. Maybe it mattered if you were in a position to make money off of those potential colonies, but other than that, ‘the Great Game’ was exactly what it was: a game on a large scale.
lowtechcyclist
@Chris Johnson:
A lot of shooting went on during the Cold War. And it’s one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
TBone
Going for a bike ride in the cool shade next to The Mighty Susquehanna on the Isle of Que today. Before the next heat wave arrives too soon.
https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/pennsylvania/isle-of-que-pa/
Lyrebird
So thankful for Anne Laurie and WG and everyone here at John’s very big tent blog.
Can’t stand cable news, never could.
The gap between the standard they are applying to POTUS and the standard they are applying to the felon can be seen from outer space.
Thankful for everyone who showed up in Detroit. They are fired up and ready to go. I am fired up, too!
I do not know whehter the right-wing noise machine will put out clips from where POTUS looked puzzled at the rally… I am embarrassed to admit that I was stressing out watching, thinking oh they may try to make hay out of this. Turns out, he was listening to some hecklers or protesters. Supporters were trying to drown themm out with more rounds of “Four More Years” … but he listened, and he earnestly responded. The protesters were raising concern about people in Gaza, and he said he appreciated their passion, and that’s why he’d pushed for the framework for the ceasefire. He said the war has gotta stop. And he went on with his planned remarks… Contrast this with that convicted felon guy who encourages his fans to physically harm protesters and threaten the press.
If you haven’t watched the Detroit rally, do, especially whne they start chanting “WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK”
And the closer, too!
Starfish
Can we quit linking to X now? Elon Musk donated to a Trump Super PAC?
Margaret Sullivan’s piece on all of the NYT Parkinsons stories is good.
EZSmirkzz
@Chief Oshkosh:
It is known Khaleeshi.
narya
As an old white broad, ISTM that white privilege means, in part, that one can choose political alliances in terms of “what do I have to gain?” and go with the person/party who promises the most gain. Conversely, black folks, LGBTQ+ folks, any group that doesn’t have that privilege, MUST think in terms of what’s the biggest risk–who’s likely to make my life (even more of) a living hell, and who might not do that.
And, maybe, Dobbs impressed on at least some folks who were benefiting from that privilege that they can lose a WHOLE lot, merely by thinking in terms of their own benefit rather than in terms of what a person/party can/will do to the folks who have been most marginalized–and then maybe also see that they’re a few small steps away from being on the pointy end of the stick, despite their fantasies to the contrary, or they have a queer relative, or a black family member, or a daughter who needed an abortion so she didn’t die. And Joe is the person who can tell that story, when he talks about being on the side of regular folks.
Betty Cracker
I find myself increasingly out of step with the prevailing view here. Yes, the political media sucks. It always has. But I don’t chalk up Biden’s political troubles to an “elite” plot.
If elected Democrats, most of whom understand politics better than we do, are “bed wetters,” it’s probably because they genuinely fear a wipe-out that takes them down too while reinstalling Trump.
If the majority of Democratic voters want someone else at the top of the ticket — and all available data seems to confirm they do — it’s not because they are all stupid or sheep-like; it’s that they fear we’re sleepwalking toward a catastrophic loss against a monster.
Voters have been concerned about Biden’s age since 2020. It was discussed extensively here at the time. The debate confirmed every negative impression on that score.
It’s not fair, but an elite cabal didn’t make the POTUS face-plant on that stage. Biden did that all by himself, and it may not be recoverable.
I don’t think all is lost. A lot can happen between now and 11/5, and Trump is an authoritarian lunatic whom most voters dislike. He’s fully capable of blowing up his own candidacy, and I sure hope he does because we need a game changer, and in this environment, it’s not clear Biden can deliver one.
I worry about the long-term health of the coalition. Even here among people who are familiar with each other and generally share the same goals, the rancor is off the charts. It’s rare to see good faith extended even to long-established commenters with different views, and paranoia is taking hold.
I don’t know what will happen. I don’t know what should happen. But it seems like we are reacting — all of us — from a place of fear. That can lead to some very dark places.
Anyway
It’s a coup — this century’s version. Elites taking down an elected president. No military needed.
matt
@Betty Cracker: But your entire message about Biden is fear. Anyways, maybe comments here should permit blocking. That would allow people to curate who they want to see and who they don’t want to see.
Gvg
@rikyrah: I don’t know, but I suspect, that if Kamala DID betray Biden, she would lose a lot of black support. I know I would think less of her. Now if Biden really was losing it, it would be her duty, but this is not that.
I have also wondered if Gavin Newson knows enough to think he can’t win any black votes if he went after Biden?
Well the last few years it has seemed to me he has been thinking in terms of needing the whole party to win as many places as possible in order for both he and California to prosper. Some democrats look a lot smarter than others to me.
Barry
“Barack Obama was, briefly, palatable to them because he was useful in the 2008 primary. They had a grudge against Hillary dating back to the 90s and he swooped in and won the nomination everyone thought was hers, and they enjoyed convincing themselves they won it for him.”
This is something I hadn’t considered. IMHO, the MSM were also running scared. They had just lost a war and were staring down the barrel of a financial crash/Great Depression II. There was a possibility that the GOP would spend a while out of power. They were willing to support a black man for president.
By 2010, there’d be no depression (at least for the rich, and that’s all they counted) and the GOP was making its comeback (i.e., the Tea Party). President Obama, a Dem President, was now a problem, so the press promoted birtherism.
BellyCat
@Mark Leeder: Worth reading is an article by Timothy Snyder, “Fear and Fascism”.
He addresses intra-party discourse/disagreement under conditions such as these.
Well worth a read.
Jeffg166
@prostratedragon: I see a cuttlefish.
Starfish
@Betty Cracker:
This needs to be a warning on every post from now until election day.
Chris T.
If the polls had been “99% Biden, 1% Trump” and moved to “98% Biden, 2% Trump”, the headline would be BIDEN SUPPORT DROPS 50%
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Both things can be true – people can wish that Biden were younger, and people can vote for him anyway.
The absolute freakout about the debate, the over-the-top adjectives and adverbs, and the press’s refusal to accept that Biden is fine after doing all the things they demanded he do since that debate, show that they have an agenda.
The choice is Biden or Trump.
The choice is easy. Probably the easiest choice for president ever.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
O. Felix Culpa
@Tony Jay:
Based on the evidence before us, I believe It’s an attempted coup by the media and their paymasters.
prostratedragon
@rikyrah: When Obama selected Biden, my father said he thought about the best possible choice for exactly that reason: Biden is honorable and not a backstabber.
matt
@O. Felix Culpa: The thing that annoys me is they’re trying to fire someone from a job they’re doing well for beauty contest reasons.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
This is news to me! What “available data”?
matt
@Steeplejack: I think she’s talking about that one poll.
Steeplejack
@matt:
That’s what the pie filter is for.
Mousebumples
@sixthdoctor: Joe Biden rope a dope?
Encouraged to hear reports of cable news breathlessly talking over an empty lectern, waiting for a Biden rally/etc. It’s like they did for Trump in 2016. Free earned media!
They’re expecting him to fall on his face… And he doesn’t. And then normies hopefully start to trust their own eyes and ears vs the pontification of the MSM.
Also, glad to see some union shirts in JOE-TOWN last night. I know I’ve asked this before, but as a person born in the 80s, I need some historical perspective. When is the last election that labor was ALL-IN for a candidate? I feel like Reagan kinda demolished that, so are we looking 70s? 60s? Earlier?
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: 1999?
lowtechcyclist
@Gvg:
Yeah, I’m sure Newsom is thinking in terms of winning the 2028 nomination, and what the political battlefield would be like for the general election. What makes him unusual is that he seems to be acting already with the goal of improving the terrain of that battlefield.
And he and Whitmer are both smart enough to know that there’s no route to winning a decent chunk of the Black vote in the 2028 primaries outside of standing foursquare behind Biden now.
Looking at Harris and Newsom and Whitmer, it’s kind of a shame that they can’t all be President for at least one term. Assuming we win this one, the 2028 primary is going to be interesting. (And thank the Lord that Bernie will have totally aged out of running by then.)
Mousebumples
@Mark Leeder: lol, tell it to your AI overlord.
matt
@Steeplejack: what is the pie filter?
O. Felix Culpa
@matt: Hmm, I think they’re trying to fire him because of the first part of your statement…he’s doing the job well.
If it were beauty contest reasons, how would you explain Trump?
artem1s
And they missed their moment (Afghanistan, Gaza, inflation, Red Wave) AGAIN. Time to tell the Fail Stream Media to stop trying to make Dean Scream happen. It’s not going to happen.
O. Felix Culpa
@artem1s:
You forgot the recession that never was and that the media devoutly wished for. So far nothing has stuck, so Biden So Old is the best (worst) they got.
ETA: To be fair, the debate was not great, but–as we’ve said ad nauseum–everything we’ve seen of Biden before and since indicates he’s fine. Time to FIDO. :)
prostratedragon
@Chris Johnson:
they were also victims of their own narrative there: Russians were suspicious of vaccination too
Like chemical/ biological warfare in a battle theater. It’s hard to evade it oneself.
Mousebumples
@matt: up top – below the post but above the comments is a photo of a piece of pie. Click it and you can select commenter to Pie.
Then their comments (and replies to them) are hidden by a pie image – you can still toggle to read, if you’d like.
There are additional tabs under that pie filter – to remove names you’ve previously Pied and to change what displays vs a pie image.
jimmiraybob
@Mark Leeder: “Group think?”
Team think. This is a team event. Without it teams lose.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@pajaro: Exactly. Exasperating is the right word
BellyCat
@Betty Cracker: Co-signed. Check out the article linked in my comment at 89.
The term RINO was conferred when the Tea Party rose up, then rapidly grew into the divisive fascistic reality of today.
The recent rancor you cite here suggests we may be in the early stages of DINO and divisiveness is underway.
The one commonality we all share that is too easily/often overlooked is that ALL Dems want Trump resoundingly defeated. Nobody wants to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory; thus differing points of view on avoiding loss are being attacked.
I plan to vote for straight Blue, and will encourage others I know to do the same, regardless of who is on the ticket in November. Expedient, unified direction from party leadership regarding the nominee is essential toward this end.
Joe is the nominee now and he has my vote. If another nominee is chosen, they will have my vote. End of story.
Gvg
@Betty Cracker: Biden did look bad in the debate. I believe the reasons given, overwork and a cold, and given the facts of his teams constant ongoing productiveness, and the known issue of his stutter and gaffs that never meant he was stupid, plus the fact his opponent is a Republican and worse, Trump, I don’t care.
My parents, lifelong democrats are scared out of their minds though. They believe the stories about polls dropping because of what they saw. In a normal election, a lot of people would switch their vote. I guess I am counting on people knowing it’s not 20 years ago, it’s Trump time. After Roe, and a bunch of other shocking rulings. It really is a serious election, so it’s natural to be seriously stressed.
I can’t seem to get through to them that it’s too late, even if Biden was demented, we would have to stick with him and bluff through it, then let Kamala take over. And I just don’t believe it anyway.
Maybe it’s because in my job, financial aid, republicans and the supremacy court keep trying to stop Biden from carrying out plans to help students with debt by knocking down helpful rules piece by piece, and Biden keeps coming back every few months with new solutions and plans to get around their stupid objections. It’s on going and does not stop. Now he has deputies that are doing it, but he picked them, he told them to keep on, and he signs. Good things keep happening.
Congress did the stupid FAFSA update that is causing problems you will hear about this year. Several years back being implemented now.
Ken
A giant space cuttlefish. Great Cthulhu is coming!
I see the Cthulhu for President site is pushing 2024 merchandise. I half-expected the Great Old One to bow out, recognizing the greater evil of Trump. Maybe they have a T-shirt with a slogan like that…
matt
@Mousebumples: Oh man, this changes everything. Goodbye Starfish
Update: wow, a lot of deceptive alts got wiped at the same time. Good stuff!
oldgold
I think, all things considered, Biden, in very choppy seas, has had a decent week. The NATO press conference and the Mo-Town rally were good.
I am not sure what percentage of Biden’s current political problems can legitimately be assigned to the media; however, I am sure the media is not going to change anytime soon. As such, carping about it is fun, but not very productive in terms of defeating Trump this Fall.
What can change and be most helpful in defeating Trump is for the Biden’s campaign to significantly up its communication game. In my opinion, to date it has been dismal failure. The people here know of Biden’s many signal accomplishments, but the vast majority of Americans remain clueless. The campaign needs to learn how to crow more effectively.
Yesterday, the Dow Jones closed above 40,000 for the first time. It is big symbolic deal. Biden mentioned it briefly at the Mo-Town rally. The campaign should have BANGED that big drum and going forward continue to do so. It directly refutes the “America in Decline” message Trump will be shamelessly selling at next week’s GOP convention.
EZSmirkzz
@Betty Cracker:
We all fear a catastrophic loss. How to avert that loss is what we disagree about. If you recall Nancy Reagan was considered a shadow president when Saint Ronald of Rayguns went senile in the 1980’s, or rumour has it. IOKIYAR doesn’t really cut it here does it?
Joe Biden is the only politician required to be without flaws, even if he is complete, to use the definitions of perfect.
Democrats have been doing this same dance since Bobby ran against Eugene who ran against LBJ, so I wouldn’t get to bent out of shape with the doings going on now. This is what we do. Eagleton is still a sticking point in McGovern’s loss to Tricky Dick, so there is a danger to changing horses mid-stream, that we should bear in mind as well.
This is nothing new here either. That’s why the pie thing appeared. Being civilized with other people is a good place to start, but if someone goes off on me I can, and unfortunately do, respond in kind. Like I said, I went through the newsgroup flame wars so I can play that game.
What I have learned is that BJ is more centrist than I am, but the reaction to us Obama supporters 2008 and Bernie supporters in 2016 was anything but civilized. So I got pied a lot. Yet I persist. Politics ain’t bean-bag.
O. Felix Culpa
@jimmiraybob:
IMO, using terms like “groupthink,” “hivemind,” “bubble,” etc. are signs of folks losing the argument. Since liberals tend to pride themselves on being rigorous, independent thinkers, throwing out that label is the equivalent of a lawyer pounding on the table if they can’t win on the facts. If you’re in the minority and think that your reasoning is better, fine. Believe what you believe and advocate for it. But it’s a sign of weakness to attack the majority opinion by resorting to these smears.
Eyeroller
For Tony Jay:
BBC News (World): “Biden Avoids Further Gaffes at Detroit Rally” is the headline. Oh, and “scrutiny over his candidacy grows”
EZSmirkzz
@matt: So you wish to re-enforce the bubble?
Martin
@Mark Leeder: And then what? That’s always the problem with these kinds of simplistic analyses.
Let me establish my position here: Biden should not have run for re-election. He should have used the 2020 win to set up a ticket that was focused on long-term governing rather than just beating Trump and secured the WH through 2028. That was especially apparent after Hobbs when Democrats were gifted the policy to run on.
Your first error is you think that Biden can’t win based on the debate. That was the conventional wisdom as well after the Access Hollywood tape came out and who won that election again? People who watched the debate didn’t think Biden lost it – only Democrats who had previous concerns about Biden did because that moment reinforced their fears.
Your second error is that you think dropping Biden will improve Democrats chances, when it almost certainly will not. Biden has the coalition, which is the most important thing for a Democrat to have. A lot of the names being floated for a replacement would probably result in a lot of core Dems staying home because their interests weren’t reflected in that replacement. And this is a big problem because Democrats are still running a pretty bad deficit in terms of party representation. If they were on top of this, they would have room to work, but they aren’t.
If Biden loses it won’t be because of the debate performance. It’ll be because Democrats, as usual, would rather score ‘I’m right’ internet points than win.
stacib
@rikyrah: we never saw him undermine Obama in 8 years.
THIS is a large part of why I always supported Biden. I’ve been bitten more than once by folks who claimed to be friends, and when the chips were down in real clear right and wrong situations, each of them “stuck with their side”. Biden NEVER did that to Obama. He got in front of him on gay marriage (which pushed Obama to have a come to Jesus moment), but even that was pushing him towards the right side of history and not trying to undercut his presidency. I’m riden’ with Biden until the wheels come off.
artem1s
@Betty Cracker:
WTF? All available data indicates the majority of Democratic voters want Biden/Harris on the ticket. They’ve been speaking for the last 3+ months. The butthurt assholes who couldn’t raise enough support to challenge him in the primaries (and knew it would be political suicide to challenge the incumbent) are the ones trying to knee cap Biden now without having to pay the political price. Biden won the New Hampshire primary by 40+ points and he wasn’t even on the ballot. He’s won 90%+ in every primary that mattered. In what world does that translate to the majority of voters don’t want him on the ticket? Stop trying to make Dean Scream happen. It’s not going to happen.
prostratedragon
@bbleh: Overheard outside 60 Center St., spring 2024:
🎼🎶 I see by your outfit that you are an asshole.
I see by your outfit that you are one, too.
We see by our outfits that we are both assholes.
If you get an outfit you’ll be an asshole too.
matt
Eyeroller
@EZSmirkzz: The other thing about BJ is that the commenters skew older (late middle aged to older) and white. It is impossible to know the demographics of readers who don’t comment, but I suspect it’s similar. I have noticed that we tend not to listen to our relatively few non-white commenters very well, even if we try to.
Unfortunately white people are just not reliable members of the Democratic coalition. Taken as a group we just aren’t. Remember what MLK had to say about the “white moderate.”
Starfish
@BellyCat: I don’t think we are in the early stages of DINO. I think this is just a more aggressive form of election year brain, and it will be over once the election passes.
Back in the bad old days of the blog-o-sphere, there was this one jackass who would do a post election “wellness-check” except basically he was using it to make fun of anyone who had gone hard for any candidate in particular, especially any candidate who had lost.
The Thin Black Duke
@Betty Cracker: POC have always been scared because there is the collective and generational memory of knowing that when the worse inevitably happens, we’ll be the first ones directly impacted. Maybe some white people need to know how that feels and–more importantly–how to appropriately respond to it.
WereBear
If we “follow the money” look at the cool billion the Biden administration clawed back from tax cheaters.
Who — coincidentally! — own the media.
All the goodness in our lives has been “taken from them.” And they are acting accordingly.
Subtext: How dare he.
O. Felix Culpa
@The Thin Black Duke:
Agree. Would you mind expanding on what you mean by appropriately respond to it? I think I can fill in the blanks, but would prefer to hear it from you. TIA.
Quiltingfool
I’ve been rewatching The Man in the High Castle, and there’s one line that I could imagine President Biden saying –
“I’m Irish. We know a thing or two about raising Hell.”
Chris
@Barry:
2008 and 2020 were both situations that were never supposed to happen. It was utterly inconceivable to the media, when that Republican president started his term, that he could ever fuck up that badly and leave us in that deep a hole. The guy was literally telling us to inject bleach into our veins, FFS. One of the differences between the MSM and overtly right wing media is that when they hit that kind of rock bottom, they actually take their finger off the scale and allow the Democrat to compete on something approaching even terms. (Which is not the same thing as actually supporting the Democrat, which they never did. They adored McCain; “did you know John McCain was a POW?” and “this is good news for John McCain!” became punchlines for a reason, and they might have stopped pushing for Trump but they sure as hell never started pushing for Biden).
A cynic would say the reason they take their finger off the scale in situations like that is that they know there’s no way they could ever keep it there and remain plausible with their audiences.
matt
@EZSmirkzz: I’ve noticed that it’s just assholes who talk about ‘bubbles’. I don’t get anything out of repetition of ideas I’ve thought about and rejected.
Mapaghimagsik
@Mark Leeder:
Yes, Group Think.
Starfish
So yesterday, a relative who shall remain nameless sent me a link to a podcast where two bros were fantasizing about Biden 3D printing a sword with the Presidential seal in the Oval Office and using it to decapitate Trump so that people would quit discussing his age under the cover of Presidential immunity granted by the Supreme Court. The political discourse is deeply weird this year.
Eyeroller
@Martin: I’m not convinced that things would have been better if Biden had not run for re-election. LBJ didn’t and look what happened. If the incumbent doesn’t run, it suggests that the record is bad and the President can’t run on it. It doesn’t really matter what the President says is his reason. And it would have set us up for a bruising primary while Trump cruised through his.
guachi
70% of Biden voters want him to withdraw. Calls to Congress are running 10:1, 30:1, 100% for Biden to withdraw (depending on the Rep). That is not a coup. Accusing the 85% of people who think Biden is too old as being “elites” is fantasy. I know the economy is good but it’s not that good.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Tony Jay:
I’ve been saying this for years. Freedom of the press is the only freedom you can buy. The wealthy have bought the freedom to fuck us over and they’ve been doing so for decades.
The Thin Black Duke
@O. Felix Culpa: Tune out the white noise.
When the news is aggressively and purposely not informative anymore, it’s not news and it needs to be ignored.
Pay attention to the boots on the ground.
matt
@guachi: The Dems should withdraw Biden and run nobody. That’s what I’ve heard so far in the way of plans.
guachi
Literally every poll shows that Americans overwhelmingly think Biden is too old and that he should withdraw. If Biden loses it will be because he’s too old and that even the dumbest MAGA understands how time works and that Biden isn’t getting any younger.
O. Felix Culpa
@The Thin Black Duke:
Thank you. That’s what I’ve been doing, to keep my sanity and my resolve. “White noise” might be considered a double entendre. :)
Martin
@Betty Cracker: The problem, as I see it, isn’t Biden’s state. The problem is that given all the ammunition that Democrats have been given between Trump’s criminality and behavior, USSC, and so on still cannot find a motherfucking nut of a narrative – and that’s not just the Biden campaign, but the entire party.
They wasted their ‘democracy at threat’ message by crying wolf and then doing fuckall about it. Voters are waiting for Democrats to stop sipping their tea with their pinkies extended and fucking fight for _something_ and they just refuse to do so. Say what you will about Trump, he’s willing to tear down norms to get what he thinks the public wants. Why aren’t dems half as committed to their ideas?
So I don’t think the problem is Biden. I think Biden is a bad messenger for this moment, but that can be overcome. I think Democrats still think they’re running against Romney and refuse to adapt to the fact that we stopped playing croquet back in 2015 and we’re full-on WWE now, and the GOP will throw you out of the ring and hit you with a chair, and the audience is there for it.
Soprano2
This morning on Weekend Morning Edition I heard David Folkenflik say, in response to the host’s question (that he’s getting from listeners) about why the press is so focused on Biden’s every gaffe while not talking about TCFG’s many, many gaffes and other crazy things he says, that “The definition of news is ‘new’. What TCFG does isn’t new, while this crisis with Biden and the Democrats is new. ” So friends, that’s why. I’m glad to know they’re getting a lot of pushback from listeners.
Eyeroller
@Martin: Did you listen to any of the Detroit rally? Biden went scorched earth on Trump. Used the “r” word even about his SA judgement.
EZSmirkzz
@The Thin Black Duke:
This sounds a lot like the white response to Trump doesn’t it? Legitimate fears are legitimate fears. We can’t even use know your enemy here, because they aren’t our enemy, they are our adversaries. They however consider us to be their enemies and so we have that conundrum to deal with. The ant-LGBT reaction plays well with the white evangelical base, which apparently is unaware of the prophet Amos.
I suppose we’re like salmon, swimming upstream to spawn and some of us get eaten by bears, but next year there will be salmon YA.
DougL
@Betty Cracker:
Your comment at #84 is where I’m at too. Thank you for articulating it so well.
EZSmirkzz
@matt: Yes, I would read your mind, but I can’t read the fine print.
Eyeroller
@Soprano2: I guess they have been asleep for the past 20 years and never listened to Biden before. He is famous as a gaffe machine. (Mixing up words and names, sometimes even losing train of thought.). He’s not a great orator and not just due to the stuttering. It’s nothing new either. Of course the reaction of some Democrats is new and they have all sorts of rumors and gossip and unnamed sources to talk about.
O. Felix Culpa
@Soprano2:
Well, that exposes the lie. Biden has been known as a gaffe machine since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, and I am not, shall we say, young. So how is that news, according to their definition?
Answering my question, it’s not. They’re all-in on a coup attempt. I’ll not speculate about motives. But their actions are as plain as day.
JeanneT
@Mark Leeder: I live in West Michigan, I’m a Democrat and I disagree: I think the President CAN win, and I sent him a big donation to help.
guachi
@Martin:
Biden’s campaign team clearly thought they were with their terrible debate prep. It’s why I want Biden to withdraw. He was clueless. His staff was clueless. Biden blamed never saying “Project 2025” on a cold. No one in the campaign lost their job.
It’s just a colossal level of incompetence.
Eyeroller
@O. Felix Culpa: Meidas Touch:
Kristen Welker spent her show hammering President Biden for accidentally getting names wrong and asking if Biden should step aside, and then moments later she called President Biden ‘President Trump.’
I will try a Nitter link since I can’t do Xitter links:
https://nitter.poast.org/MeidasTouch/status/1811998195653967917#m
Martin
@Eyeroller: Yeah. And I think that’s a good step. But I’m not talking about just taking shots at Trump. The right is articulating a cultural vision for the US, and Democrats don’t counter it at all. What are Democrats running on here? Beating Trump? Anything else? Because it doesn’t seem like anything else.
Betty
@JWR: Both Brooks and the moderator had slips of the tongue in that clip. I guess we are now supposed to refer to them as “having a Biden”?
O. Felix Culpa
@matt:
Well said. At this point, there aren’t any new ideas on the topic. They’ve all been hashed out, repeated, repeated, and repeated. And then repeated some more.
Speaking for myself, I’ve been on various sides of the debate and sifted through the arguments and evidence. I’ve settled on Joe is running, and I’m supporting him until or unless he steps down. Which he clearly isn’t. So FIDO and GOTV.
Betty Cracker
@matt:
Yes, hence my use of the phrase “all of us;” fear is driving this conversation on both sides of the Democratic divide, and that’s making people extra twitchy, IMO. As for comment blocking, there is the pie filter. Please feel free to add me to yours!
@Steeplejack & @artem1s: Here’s a recent WaPo-ABC poll. Maybe it’s wrong, but it tracks with what I see anecdotally in my meat space circles. The Dems I know will vote for Biden if he’s the nominee; I’m not worried about them. It’s the fence-sitting idiots in a handful of swing states who will decide the election that I’m worried about.
O. Felix Culpa
@Eyeroller:
Exactly. They’re getting desperate. Who among us has never mixed up names or had a hard time retrieving a fact we know? Are we all in cognitive decline now? (Maybe some of us are; can’t say.) :)
I also liked some comments about how the press all read their questions from notes at the conference. I guess they too are experiencing severe memory loss, since they didn’t trust themselves to speak extemporaneously.
ETA: Your link worked.
Eyeroller
@Martin: He also outlined a plan for the first 100 days. Most of it would require Congress, of course, but nobody ever gets into the details when talking about visions. It was mostly economic but included codifying Roe and voting rights. Honestly, I think nearly everybody knows our “cultural vision.”
A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)
@JWR: I can definitely see Trump making him VP AND using him as a shoeshine boy. The ritual humiliations must continue.
matt
@Martin: You think the Democrats need their own Project 2025?
BellyCat
This. Sadly, Biden seems unwilling to acknowledge let alone correct this situation.
matt
@O. Felix Culpa: where I’ve landed is that all these panicking people are driving us to the biggest self own in US history, because they don’t have a fucking plan.
They’ve progressed to the ‘shoot your own guys in the back’ stage of their panicked routing.
Eyeroller
@A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno): FWIW, and it may mean nothing, rumor is it’s going to be Vance. I guess we’ll find out in a few days.
I am not an Ohio resident so don’t know the appeal there (other than the R tribal label) but Vance comes across to me as a crooked “financial manager.” Maybe one conman recognizes another.
Another Scott
@Martin:
(repost) – APNews.com:
That’s what Biden’s running on. It’s out there, it’s easily available, it’s consistent, and it’s compelling. It’s a big, bold, American program. It’s a lot because he’s done a lot and a lot more needs to be done.
HTH!
Cheers,
Scott.
matt
@Betty Cracker: Your posts here are great and I’m a fan – I’d never block you. The problem I have with all this is there’s no plan, just freak out from the dump Biden side.
O. Felix Culpa
@matt:
As far as I’m concerned, the plan is Biden-Harris. It’s the only one we’ve got, and it’s a good one.
I’m fully aware that the polls are tight. That’s not surprising. In a way, it’s encouraging because it means that with effort on all our parts, we have a fighting chance to win. If we stop fighting amongst ourselves, that is.
I also get feeling scared. This is a high stakes election, and the consequences of a Felon victory are unthinkable. All the more reason to stiffen the spine and fight. Our ancestors didn’t give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and neither should we.
BellyCat
@Martin:
Agree with your first observation. However, your conclusion seems at odds with this observation?
If Biden loses, my position is that he failed to properly pursue your initial observation. Biden, from Day One knew that age would be a drum that would be beat on by Trump, Republicans, and the media (all birds of a feather) for the next election. He had the opportunity to support Kamala or another for this election for at least the past two years but chose not to. Strategic error or hubris? We may never know. But it’s too late to change anything. Thus, while Biden has been a great and transformative president, I’m gonna be True to Blue and see where things shake out.
Eyeroller
@O. Felix Culpa: I’ve seen wailing about how no D (not sure whether that means just D incumbent, don’t recall details) had been so low in the polls in July for decades. Such people seemingly have no understanding of the unique circumstances. Joe is an unpopular incumbent with high negatives. It’s not fair and we all know why it isn’t fair, but it’s a fact. He’s one of the least unpopular post-pandemic Western leaders, at least. Trump is an ex-incumbent who also has high negatives, higher than Joe. But he has a base that is actually loyal and sometimes downright fanatical and we never seem to get that kind of loyalty on our side. There was also a pre-existing narrative that Joe is too old/Joe is senile that was easily turned from a whisper campaign (supposedly boosted by Russia) to a full-blown screaming fit.
It’s also been striking how the polls really didn’t change after a post-debate dip, and now Joe is gaining. It’s also pretty clear that the circular firing squad did more damage than the polls. I wonder how much better Biden would be doing if he’d had some loyalty shown rather than backstabbing.
Steve in the ATL
@Eyeroller: exactly.
Steve in the ATL
@Eyeroller:
I don’t think that’s even remotely accurate.
Tony Jay
@Eyeroller:
Almost like it’s a co-ordinated message. Across the board and reinforced by repetition. Free Press my arse. It cost a fortune for the rich to buy it all up.
Tony Jay
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
And you’ve been right.
Responding to the wholesale takeover of every mainstream news media platform in the developed world with a panicked “Stop exaggerating. That would be terrible!” is kind of missing the point.
Yes, it’s terrible. Look around. This is what terrible looks like.
UncleEbeneezer
There have been countless posts/links to very smart people from all over the spectrum of our coalition, explaining why this is not a solid conclusion, for a whole host of reasons. Anne Laurie has dropped a bunch in her posts.
We are no longer on debate night. There are numerous signs that the momentum has changed over the past 14 days and the coalition is now getting in line behind our President.
Yes, some white pundits, Centrists and Progressives with outsized platforms want a different candidate. That is true. That is not “most Dem voters.” Black, Latinx, Union voters etc. are all with Biden in gaining numbers.
The Biden train is starting to roll.
I hope you jump onboard soon because we really need everyone to help us prevail in what is still a very winnable election.
Mapaghimagsik
@JeanneT:
Thanks for calling out the bullshit!
My friends are all over the map, but my little shit stirrer friends (sadly have to deal with his ass today) Hide behind their white privilege blanket (if it was a sheet, I’d dump them) and bitch.
They’re more fun when we just talk movies.
AWJ
@Chris Johnson: In addition to the Russiagate stuff, the dirtbag left was also bizarrely and grotesquely pro-Assad in the Syrian Civil War. I don’t just mean that they were skeptical of American intervention like you’d expect leftists to be, I mean they were all the way in Marcyist “Victory to Assad, death to imperialism!” territory and fully invested in conspiracy theories that the White Helmets were a “CIA op” and all regime atrocities were fake news. They platformed people like Maram “yeah she’s a Nazi, but trust us bro, she’s got good takes on Syria” Susli.
Mike E
@Tony Jay: and yet we get the “where’s the good messaging?” comments here when the Big Media blender is set to puree… you are absolutely correct with your verdict of all-out class war: racism and misogyny and religious bigotry are all easy levers to derail critical thought and that goes back 100 years for a reason.
I’m voting for the president, fuck everybody.
UncleEbeneezer
@Another Scott: If only there was a thread like three posts down, showing Biden absolutely killing it in Michigan…
I get the panic after the first debate I really do (even though I resisted embracing it). But I truly don’t understand why it’s so hard for people to go from “Oh shit, Biden looks terrible” to “Oh wait, he’s fine” and use the latter to reassure themselves. If Biden continued to look shaky in the past two weeks, I’d be starting to panic too. But he hasn’t. He’s looked better and better with each appearance. Almost like someone getting over a cold. It seems like people are forever stuck on debate night and won’t acknowledge the fact that Biden has been righting-the-ship at every step since.
The Thin Black Duke
@Mike E:
End of story. Everything else is a waste of time.
Mapaghimagsik
@Mike E:
Completely agree, and supporting my friends doing the same. I’m annoyed they’re in a sea of reply-guy BS.
Betty Cracker
@matt: Thank you. FWIW, I’m not on the “dump Biden” side. I’m on the “beat Trump” side, and I’m genuinely not sure which path makes that outcome more likely.
TaMara
@Tony Jay: I shared your wise counsel on the book of faces….it was excellent.
UncleEbeneezer
Our Veterinarian gets our cats’ names (and genders) wrong so often that it’s a running joke between me and my wife. Yet we have no hesitation to defer to him on major life decisions for these animals that we absolutely adore. Likewise, I deal with a LOT of student names (sometimes 100 or more) and probably call one by another’s name at least once, almost every lesson, several times a week. I’m only 50 and have fully-functioning cognitive skills. Tripping up on names, especially under pressure (like a gaggle of kids bombarding you with “what are we doing next?” questions all at once), is completely normal.
TerryC
@Mapaghimagsik:
@JeanneT: I live in SE Michigan and my friends are strongly behind Biden. In my little very conservative township we have a slate of progressives running against the Republicans for trustee, clerk, and supervisor for the first time in memory. Lots of enthusiasm!
Mike E
@Betty Cracker: you’re on the “cite polls” side though. It’s BS.
japa21
My 2 cents worth.
I am glad the debate was held when it was. September would have been a killer. Now, it’s no place to go but up.
I truly believe that if Trump had chosen not to run, Biden would have chosen not to run.
I don’t believe 80% of Dems want Biden to drop out, but if they did, I doubt any of them would not vote for him.
I also don’t believe Trump will get much of, if any, of a post convention bounce this week. Normally, that would be a death knell for a campaign, but that would require a media actually willing to do journalism.
For all the talk of Dem pols saying Biden should drop out, I have not heard of a single one saying they won’t vote for him. There are plenty of Republicans saying they won’t vote for Trump.
Frank Wilhoit
@Lacuna Synecdoche:
We were grateful to Kay Graham for forcing Nixon out, neglecting the fact that one scalp is as good as another.
UncleEbeneezer
I think this can extend beyond the pundits/podcasters etc., to many members of our coalition. The worst BernieBros (NOTALL) and Centrists I’ve known who are big-mad that Biden won’t step down, all seem to share this same belief that they are the ones who really carried Obama to power and resent the fact that they aren’t he ones who really are in charge of our party. Especially as it’s been made crystal clear this week.
Mapaghimagsik
@TerryC:
I grew up in MIchigan, and while the area I grew up in was pretty much a piece of shit {TM} One of the things I did respect was the pragmatic clarity of its Democrats.
And the Tulip Festival this year was pretty snazzy!
Frank Wilhoit
@Ramalama:
If you allow yourself to get into a place where two coalitions are so nearly equal, then it no longer matters which one wins, because “consent of the governed” is in either case unattainable.
Frank Wilhoit
@WereBear:
He didn’t steal it. He was given it. That is even worse.
different-church-lady
Why the political press shifted? There was no shift, they’ve been in anti-Biden mode all year.
Frank Wilhoit
@Mark Leeder:
The meaning of the metaphor about changing horses in the middle of the stream is that if you try to do that, you are absolutely certain to drown.
Bill Arnold
@Tony Jay:
I am stealing this.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: The fear is legit. But keep in mind three things:
1) It would still be there even if Biden hadn’t coughed up a furball at the debate.
2) The enemy is cultivating the source of the fear
3) The most important thing we can do is not let the enemy use the fear against us.
Soprano2
@guachi: So the 81 year old should withdraw but the 78 year old is just fine. This whole discussion is insane.
Bill Arnold
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know what will happen. I don’t know what should happen. But it seems like we are reacting — all of us — from a place of fear. That can lead to some very dark places.
Quoted for Truth.
My focus is/will be on attacking Trump and the GOP, and praising the Biden administration’s astonishingly good record.
The first will be useful no matter what.
The second will be more useful if Biden is the candidate; his record will be discarded to a significant extent (at an emotional level) along with him otherwise.
Soprano2
@O. Felix Culpa: I think the “new” part is the freakout on the part of some Democrats. IMHO that’s mostly what’s driving this now. The voters already factored in that Biden is old. I was listening to the Pod Save guys this morning, and Favreau’s fear is plain now – he thinks Biden can’t adequately prosecute the case against TCFG, that he won’t do it forcefully enough and the message will get lost in the press fixation on every misstep and stumble Biden makes. That’s not an unreasonable fear, but my fear is that trying to change horses now will be even worse for all the reasons I’ve already mentioned in other threads, especially if they try to throw Harris overboard as well. I think Biden is the candidate, and Democrats have to continue to make the case against TCFG and quit feeding the press fire. It’s not helping at all, it’s only making Biden dig in even more and I think it’s hurting Democrats with voters.
Tony Jay
@Mike E:
Bang on. That’s exactly what’s called for. Take each fight on directly and win it. Becomes a habit.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: The reaction of the fence sitting idiots is why Democrats need to quit stabbing their nominee in the back and in the front and get their message out about why they are better than TCFG and Republicans. Right now that message is being drowned out by the breathless “which Democrat will come out against Biden next?” crap. Which do you think is more helpful in beating the Orange Menace?
Soprano2
QFT, that’s exactly how I feel these days. Their plan seems to be to keep telling everyone they have no confidence in the nominee so we should do something, but the things they suggest are fantastical.
Bill Arnold
@EZSmirkzz:
Reagan was degraded by actual early-stage Alzheimer’s disease, with memory failures, during his 1984 campaign, and won with 525 electoral votes. There were serious concerns among some about his clear befuddlement during/after a debate with Mondale (which I personally recall):
Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer’s while president, says son – Son Ron Reagan’s claim that Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer’s while in office leads to war of words with half brother Michael (Ed Pilkington, Mon 17 Jan 2011)
Reagan then surrounded himself with competent evil people who implemented their extrapolation of his agenda.
Biden is clearly not dealing with that sort of dementia at the current time; the memories of both current and long-ago events are still working, and executive function seems adequate. The NATO press conference made that quite clear.
The press in 1984 was willing to help Reagan over the hump. Morning in America, and all, due to a combination of a stimulus twice the size in real dollars of the 2009 stimulus, and an 8 percent reduction in the Federal funds rate goosing everything, including real estate, that depends on borrowing.
The press now is … willing (nay, eager, in management) to help elect Trump.
So, different times, with one big different being the press.
Uncle Cosmo
Just be sure to have it tattooed either upside-down (so you can read it when you lower your head) or backwards (so you can read it in a mirror – assuming you have a reflection. [JK, I’m a sucker for a straight line.])
Uncle Cosmo
Might I note that there is actually a non-whacko rationale for “raging at masks”? Consider how many of us in the Western world derive a major fraction of our cues for face-to-face interaction from, literally, the other person’s face. Put everyone in masks and you lose that source of information. (Not to mention how much harder it is to understand someone with impaired hearing and even the slightest bit of lip-reading folded into the interaction.) It was already hard to communicate, and masks added another layer of difficulty.
I am personally convinced that if someone had developed and marketed an economical and effective mask that was transparent, a lot of the ensuing foofaraw could have been avoided. A word for wise entrepreneurs to keep in their pocket for the next pandemic…
Uncle Cosmo
World War O-For-Oligarchs. As far as the O’s** are concerned, Vova is just one of them, on a slightly larger scale, doing their Lord Moloch’s work in destroying liberal democracy. If worst comes to worst (fingers toes eyes crossed it’ll never come to this), it will occur to them hard on the heels of said destruction that an oligarch with death squads and thermonuclear weapons is a qualitatively greater threat to the human race in general, and them in particular, that they bargained for. Then again, consider how many of the Third Reich’s moneybin-Abteilung ever paid any significant price for fascist enabling – we recruited them for the anticommunist brigade rather than stringing them up as we should’ve….:^(
** Not to be cornfused with the O’s of Balmer Merlin Hon, still clinging to the top rung in the AL East as their pitching staff crumbles… :^(
trnc
@Bill Arnold:
Everyone understands that Stephen Hawking drooling in a cup was one of the most brilliant minds on the planet, while some republicans claim that Biden taking two extra seconds to answer intricate policy questions makes him completely senile.
Uncle Cosmo
@Mark Leeder: Fuck off and die in a fire, whoever the fuck you are.
Tony Jay
@Mark Leeder:
Brain worms, man. Brain worms*. It’s the way of the future.
And for only $99.99 you too can have a breeding set. Get ahead of your neighbours, dominate that school board, become undisputed Lord and Master of all you survey by simply introducing our exclusive packet of Brain Worm eggs to lukewarm water and maintaining them at a very strict temperature for 40 weeks. The resulting spawnage are YOURS to deploy as you will in accordance with all LEGAL laws in your native jurisdiction.
Girls will like you. Men will respect you. Those you’re not sure about but have a problem with you can’t quite define will fear you.
Brain Worms! Like democracy, but easier.
* Brain worms are not for human consumption. Introduction into the human biosphere is strictly forbidden and not encouraged or enticed by this advertisement.
Also, Vote Trump – He’s Your Daddy. Maybe. Does your Mommy cry when she sees him on TV? That means he’s a great guy.
BarcaChicago
@The Thin Black Duke: THIS. Thank you!
Bill Arnold
@AWJ:
Yeah, that was eye-opening.
I mean, the Israelis will never[1] manage to exceed Bashar al-Assad’s civilian body count (albeit with copious Russian assistance). Though they have surpassed his father’s body count, at least arguably.
[1] excepting potential Israeli use of nuclear weapons.
Long Time San Diego Lurker
The last time a Democratic President dropped out of the race was Johnson in 1968, resulting in a landslide victory for Nixon. Biden dropping out now will result in a landslide victory for our former president.
BarcaChicago
@different-church-lady: Correct on all points.
EZSmirkzz
@Bill Arnold:
Agreed.
I don’t think Biden should take advantage of Trump’s youth either.( I was there too.)
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest. I’ve said the same thing here for the last couple of days.
Roberto el oso
Every single election I have ever voted in I have voted Dem all the way down the ballot. I’ve had discussions/arguments with folks who have more or less accused me of suffering from ‘plantation brain’ for doing so. Which simply isn’t true. In every single instance, from President on down to dog-catcher, the Dem has been preferable. Even in those instances when the Dem might be sleaze-adjacent, all it takes is a little research into the Republican opponent and, no matter how pristine they might appear to be in matters political and private, there is always something off about them and it usually doesn’t take a lot of pushing to find the rancid pus.
Bill Arnold
@EZSmirkzz:
Basically, that the election is in play.
More broadly, that we (non-Fascists) should fight ruthlessly, because if authoritarian Trump is elected, the rules of opposition change, and become much more ruthless and ugly.
Lynn Dee
I can’t speak for the media or elected officials. But I can speak (maybe) for other lifelong Democrats who were shocked by the debate. Yes, I knew Biden was old. And I knew he looked perhaps older than he even was, has struggled (admirably and successfully) with a stutter that he largely manages well, and that he’s been a “gaffe machine” for years. None of that was news to me, and none of it mattered. It still doesn’t. But, just as I knew Nancy Pelosi was old but hadn’t lost a step cognitively (to take an example), I believed Biden was still sharp cognitively. That’s what the debate threw into the air for me — not that I suddenly believed he was not sharp cognitively, but that — suddenly — I just didn’t know. And with that came a real uncertainty as to whether he could take the fight to Trump and win the election.
So that’s where I was coming from. The next couple weeks were awful, of course. We’ve all witnessed the back and forth on the national stage, in the media, in Congress, etc. etc. etc. I tried to focus on what was coming from Biden and from the campaign. Not a lot, imo, for the first couple weeks. Finally came the post-NATO press conference, which was huge, and then Friday night, when Biden laid out his record and his plans going forward, and really took the fight to Trump. All of that was awesome and a huge relief to see.
Even so, as someone who does let go of grievances pretty readily (but not immediately), I gotta say the ongoing outcry against those of us who experienced the debate as I did, as if we were all a bunch of bedwetters and backstabbers who weren’t acting in good faith or didn’t care as much about beating Trump as they did — has been fucking annoying.
Barry
@O. Felix Culpa:
“If it were beauty contest reasons, how would you explain Trump?”
Beautiful tax cuts for the rich, beautiful subsidies for the rich, beautiful deregulation for the rich, beautiful drama and sound bits for the reporters,…
And besides, it’s *ridiculous* that he might carry out his program, the program of the GOP, and the program of the Right, correct?
They mean *slavic* Jews only, correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews