Today, The Atlantic published an excerpt of Kamala Harris’s campaign memoir, 107 Days. Here’s a gift link.
I wasn’t planning on reading it anytime soon — still too painful! But there it was in my inbox, so I read the excerpt. It’s a bit saltier than I expected! Harris indicates multiple times that she felt undermined by Biden’s staff and occasionally by Biden himself.
As to the juicy parts the media hounds will be slobbering over, here’s how Harris describes her dilemma given her role as VP when Biden decided to run for reelection. (She pretty clearly indicates it was the wrong decision due to persistent voter concern about his age.)
During all those months of growing panic, should I have told Joe to consider not running? Perhaps. But the American people had chosen him before in the same matchup. Maybe he was right to believe that they would do so again…
And of all the people in the White House, I was in the worst position to make the case that he should drop out. I knew it would come off to him as incredibly self-serving if I advised him not to run. He would see it as naked ambition, perhaps as poisonous disloyalty, even if my only message was: Don’t let the other guy win.
“It’s Joe and Jill’s decision.” We all said that, like a mantra, as if we’d all been hypnotized. Was it grace, or was it recklessness? In retrospect, I think it was recklessness. The stakes were simply too high. This wasn’t a choice that should have been left to an individual’s ego, an individual’s ambition. It should have been more than a personal decision.
As for the alleged administration coverup of Biden’s condition, Harris has this to say:
Many people want to spin up a narrative of some big conspiracy at the White House to hide Joe Biden’s infirmity. Here is the truth as I lived it. Joe Biden was a smart guy with long experience and deep conviction, able to discharge the duties of president. On his worst day, he was more deeply knowledgeable, more capable of exercising judgment, and far more compassionate than Donald Trump on his best. But at 81, Joe got tired. That’s when his age showed in physical and verbal stumbles. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debate debacle happened right after two back-to-back trips to Europe and a flight to the West Coast for a Hollywood fundraiser. I don’t believe it was incapacity. If I believed that, I would have said so. As loyal as I am to President Biden, I am more loyal to my country.
I believe her, and the excerpt convinced me to read the whole thing when it is released.
In addition to the palace intriguey stuff above, it contains fascinating details about Harris’s role in the Biden admin, her perspective as the first woman and person of color ever elected VPOTUS and how she used her experience to approach the job. Harris remains a compelling figure, and I want to hear more from her, whether she chooses to run for office again or not.
Open thread!
On The Road – TheOtherHank – Iceland #1
Professor Bigfoot
“Steppin’ Razor” remains my first choice.
i love The Great Khan, of course; but gimme MVP every time.
Baud
cc: Tapper.
Baud
The excerpt here is interesting because it’s talking about bowing down to voter perception.
It’s always a delicate dance for Dems, because voters are not with us on a lot of things.
Lapassionara
Hooray for the blow out win of the Democratic candidate in the Virginia special election.
Suzanne
I love her — she would have had my primary vote in 2020, but she dropped out before I got to vote. I am interested in what she has to say. I think I’m going to hold off on reading the book, though, until I feel less freaked out by the state of the world.
BellyCat
100% Riding with Kamala still.
So weird that an 81 year old might not have limitless energy.
Baud
@Lapassionara:
Yes. It was a lock, but the spread was nice to see. Especially with the VA election this November.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Voter perception or NYT’s perception of what voters perceive?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Voter perception or NYT’s perception of what voters perceive?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Is there much of a difference within the Dem party these days?
Baud
Surprised the worker wasn’t sent to El Salvador.
Librettist
@Baud:
Same for the deep pocket donors.
TONYG
@Baud: ICE “agents” are just a lawless mob of cowardly thugs. But we already knew that.
Baud
@Librettist:
Agreed. I haven’t looked up the numbers recently, but I have the sense that Dems over the last decade have become more reliant on small dollar donations.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: That whole incident sounded fishy from the get-go. South Koreans sneaking into the U.S. to work at a…Hyundai plant?
An old family friend’s daughter and her family are living in South Korea (military spouse), and they report South Koreans are PISSED. Leave it to Trump & Co. to fuck up a stable relationship for no reason.
E.
I liked Harris, campaigned for her, cried when she lost, and I’m going to read her book. But her husband’s determination to continue working for his law firm that bowed to Trump and agreed to provide $100 million in pro bono legal services to Trump and his causes strikes me as close to unforgivable. They are rich enough already. He doesn’t need to do that. It’s repellent and also — baffling.
Deputinize America
OT – Maybe it’s my cussedness, but if I were the Qatar Grand Poohbah, I’d be inclined to tell Donald Trump that he’s got one week to remove everything he can from that giant base, and that the American presence is done, and that I’m in negotiations with the PRC to guarantee security and sovereignty.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
They have every right to be pissed. The only saving grace was this was in Georgia and will hurt Georgia. Let’s see if Georgia voters will actually stand up to Republicans.
geg6
I like her fine. I definitely voted for her happily, but I can’t imagine why anyone would read this book. Maybe in twenty or so years, but rehashing that shit right and looking back now is the very last thing I want to do. I hope the book does well, but it’s not going on my bookshelf. I’m happy to completely forget 2024. Much as I’m sure I’ll be happy to forget 2025. Sometimes I envy my John’s dementia, which allows him to forget shit like this.
Baud
@geg6:
I bought Hillary’s book and didn’t read it. Feel the same way about this. At my age, I’m cutting back on political details, especially emotionally difficult ones. The only real choice I have to make is who to vote for in the primary.
TF79
Ah, we could have had the nice, smart lady…
Baud
@TF79:
Relatively young too.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: I doubt the that Republican GA voters will notice even one tiny, teensy bit.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Good question. I am looking for Ds not swayed by NYT and the toxic online left that seldom votes D.
satby
“Joe Biden was a smart guy with long experience and deep conviction, able to discharge the duties of president. On his worst day, he was more deeply knowledgeable, more capable of exercising judgment, and far more compassionate than Donald Trump on his best.”
Bet Tapper and the rest knew that just as well as her. The conspiracy wasn’t in the Biden White House.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
That’s all one can do. I complain about things just like everyone else, but there’s no solution to anything except finding like minded people and promoting the people and values that you share.
Betty Cracker
@Deputinize America: Amazing how thoroughly these dumb, rake-stomping fuckwads have overturned American hegemony in half a year. I’ll admit to some ambivalence on that score historically, but it will materially affect all of us and soon.
WereBear
@Professor Bigfoot: I think yours sums up her style. I like it.
mappy!
Before Harris was our candidate, or even hinted at being, I had a thought that if Democracy was to be saved, it would be saved by women of color.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud:
@Betty Cracker:
A few months ago I actually spoke to Hyundai about their employment counsel role based at that plant. Wasn’t a good fit for various reasons (including, or especially, the location) but I’m sure whoever ended up there has been quite busy lately….
Professor Bigfoot
@Betty Cracker: Who wouldn’t be?
They have every right to be insulted and angered by this.
Like you say, who but Trump and his coterie of evil incompetents could so TOTALLY fuck up a great international relationship?
Geminid
I had always thought highly of Kamala Harris, but she really impressed me with her performance at the February, 2022 Munich Security Conference. It was held on the eve of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Harris showed confidence and competence, and the Western leaders she met welcomed it. After that, I had no doubts Harris could make a capable President.
I remember in particular the warm greetings between Harris and Benny Gantz. At the time, Gantz was Defense Minister for the best Israeli government in a decade. In an alternate timeline, Harris would be President today and Gantz would be Prime Minister.
But elections create different timelines. The Israeli election that November saw Benjamin Netanyahu wriggle his way back into power, on the strength of the Meretz party missing the electoral threshhold by a few thousand votes, and a corrupt bargain with Israel’s biggest racists. He then proceeded to run his country into the ditch.
But whatever else he was, Netanyayu was a shrewd political tactitian. Two years later, Harris faced an ignoramus, but the ignoramus still won because he had good help. The way I see it, Trump didn’t beat Harris, Susan Wiles and Chris LaCivita did.
zhena gogolia
Sorry to hear about this.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Probably helpful for Wiles and LaCivita that Musk dropped a quarter of a billion dollars on the operation too.
Baud
@Steve in the ATL:
Dodged a bullet. Now you have more time to Juice.
Dave
@Professor Bigfoot: For absolutely no gain beyond appeasing their own need to be cruel and destructive.
Professor Bigfoot
@WereBear: I have a screenshot of a Vanity Fair headline from I think 2019: “Kamala Harris Guts Barr Like A Fish And Leaves Him Flopping On The Deck.”
She’s been “Steppin’ Razor” for me ever since. 😁
Baud
@Dave:
That’s gain for Trump. That’s his staying power.
Betty Cracker
Just RSVP’d to a town hall invitation from my slippery worm of a GOP House rep. Selected attendees allegedly get 5 minutes of mic time to ask questions about federal issues! I have SO MANY questions! In the unlikely event I don’t get screened out for being a registered Democrat, I may have to workshop my approach with y’all! ;>)
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Oh cool. Can’t wait for the readout.
Professor Bigfoot
@Betty Cracker: Oooohhh, read him for filth, girl!
WereBear
@mappy!: Except some of them won’t vote for a woman of any color.
Except they might have figured something out by the time it all blows up. But then… they aren’t good at that, either.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: Please do. One way or another, he will hear from you.
mappy!
Banksy scrubbed.
“Truth can be hidden but never erased”
Betty Cracker
Did y’all see video of Trump getting heckled by people at a DC restaurant last night? His first foray into a restaurant that serves the public in DC? He did this weird, almost mechanical-looking head movement thing, like he was shorting out.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Supposedly Vance was heckled too. I don’t know if it was the same event.
Steve in the ATL
@geg6:
I agree 100%. Plus, I’m mad at her as I am dealing with a consent order from 2015 when she was California AG and its evergreen provisions are a PITA. That’s probably more the fault of the company’s lawyers who agreed to it, but I’m channeling right wingers and looking for anything to blame on Democrats!
Gvg
@Baud: That raid encapsulates the Republican machine lies of the past several decades demonizing immigrants as the cause of low American worker wages while the the rich get richer. It had enabled the rich to misdirect=redirect rising anger to a useless innocent target instead of understanding real causes.
Trump is a real racist and so is Miller. I do think they believe they buy their own opinions. Are probably surprised by the economy not flourishing and people not being pleased. But plenty of others did it on purpose. Like Murdoch and most of the rich. It’s an old tactic and frankly hard to prevent the local worker class from doing it to themselves in all times and places. Disliking foreigners and blaming them seems to be human instinct.
Anyway, the republicans have been overstating the size of illegal immigration and even legal immigration for decades. They have had to make larger and more sensational claims as time went on in order to keep the interest of their audience because they had competition and because the truth was too boring or repetitive. Now the audience believed them and elected enough of them to do what they said and knows that….and there are not really that many illegal immigrants nor even legal ones because the claims were such Bull.
On top of that, too many voters no longer know how too many things work including money, trade, interest rates, inflation, tariffs, foreign policy, alliances, loyalties that go both ways, nuclear war, why info from torture can’t be relied on, and vaccines. They also don’t know that evidence is more important than their feelings.
Steve Paradis
@Baud:
My question to all aside from Tapper is “Did Biden’s physical fatigue affect his judgement and understanding of issues? Was it all appearance over substance? Did anyone suggest actual dementia?”
Because that’s what we’re looking at now, as well as a prospective replacement by a man with the moral compass of an Ovaltine decoder ring.
Meanwhile, the Poles are under attack by Russian drones, and the White House couldn’t care less.
Baud
@Gvg:
Trump is a racist but unprincipled because he puts Trump first.
Miller is a principled and dedicated racist.
WereBear
She had to write it and now because this is when the normies can figure things out.
It’s not that they aren’t interested, either. They just don’t have the skills or the time to develop them and they didn’t use to exist where finding out what is really going on requires much more than Walter Cronkite telling us.
We’re all numb from the endless propaganda.
But of course this is all caused by the science of PR, from people with too much money and not enough brain. Creating the Zombie horde that derailed all our aspirations. Look at all the missteps, a person will say, and then maybe realize the bigger picture because it’s all up front like an assembled puzzle.
We had everything against us, and it was still razor thin. But now, they are not forgiveable. They have to be taken down, and is anyone quibbling about populism? Now?
Don’t run on policy. I think everyone has at least of better grasp of just how stupid they might be.
Teresa
@mappy!:
That is still my hope. I truly want to witness that before I kick the bucket.
I also want to witness, women’s health not being used as a political chew toy as a platform issue.
Baud
@Steve Paradis:
Always is.
Yes. People went full Frist.
WereBear
@Baud: And then Irony said, “I need a drink,” and left.
Steve Paradis
@Betty Cracker:
The instructional workers will return home and be greeted as heroes.
Hyundai (and Kia) will start looking for alternative locations in Canada and Mexico.
Suzanne
@Gvg:
“They say” experience is the best teacher. That would be perfectly fine, if they could confine it to themselves. The rest of us, who don’t need to FA in order to FO, are just along for the ride. I will never get over it.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud:
Dude, not cool. But I’m going to pretend Omnes posted this and pie him instead of you!
Belafon
@BellyCat:
It takes more energy to, I am coming to realize, to stay calm and collected around people who need some sense physically knocked into them, than it does to randomly say racist crap that Trump is allowed to get away with.
Juju
@Betty Cracker: I don’t think Trump did the Hyundai raids for no good reason. My guess is he’s trying to revive his romance with Kim Jong-il.
Belafon
@E.: Looking for something to be angry about that isn’t Trump?
Baud
@Juju:
That crossed my mind. NK has been quiet lately.
Baud
@Steve in the ATL:
I had high hopes for GA, but they voted red. Hopefully, they send Ossoff back next year. That’ll be revealing.
Steve in the ATL
@Juju: seems like it benefits his erstwhile BFF Elon as well
Scout211
Have you read about “ICE Karen,” who is taking credit for calling in the tip to ICE?
She is fundraising off the backlash so who knows if it’s true or just part of her MAGA campaign.
Belafon
@Juju: In this particular case, I don’t think Trump had anything to do with hit. This was white woman in Georgia calling ICE and they came
runningjogging and huffing.Steve in the ATL
@Baud: yeah, and it wasn’t even close. If we are able to retain at least one of Ossoff and Warner that will be a win. Though I am enjoying having non-embarrassing senators for the first time since war hero Max Cleland was taken out by a draft dodger who attacked his military record.
Another Scott
Thanks for the pointer and the excerpt. I pre-ordered it a while ago.
I guess I’ll be a contrarian and argue that the way it turned out – Biden sticking around and getting good stuff done until summer 2024 and then Harris jumping in – was the best approach.
Doesn’t everyone agree that Harris would have had a much, much more difficult time passing the big bills that juiced the economy and laid a good foundation for the future? ARP, BIL, etc., etc. As it was, it was a nail-biter for Joe – the safe, genial, friendly old white guy – to get it done.
Biden fought back in 2022 and the off-year elections were basically a wash rather than a Red Wave. Would they have been if Harris was President in Waiting?
Biden proved the doubters wrong in the
JanuaryMarch 7, 2024 SOTU. He was lively and combative and showed grit and stamina. And it hardly changed the polling. That would argue that people weren’t upset with his age, or his policies, but with things that almost no POTUS can control but gets blamed for anyway.Harris/Walz was new and exciting for 107 days. It would have been old-hat if it had been 3+ years. The press likes new and exciting and doesn’t like old-hat.
And there’s the issue of the worldwide phenomenon “We didn’t like COVID, the disruptions, the quick change in prices, and don’t want to think about it anymore, so we’re going to throw the government out”. Maybe incumbents had a huge load rather than the normal huge benefit.
Given all that, and the closeness of the result, I think one could make the case that we had a good hand, but it wasn’t quite good enough. The voters were unhappy so the party in power was punished.
And it might set her up for a successful result in 2028 if she were to decide to run.
But, nobody knows….
Thanks again. Looking forward to reading the whole thing.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@Juju: I’d almost forgotten the story about US Navy SEALS murdering innocent North Korean fishermen in Trump’s first term thanks to the nonstop firehose of shit.
Steve in the ATL
Unrelated, but also unlikely to reignite the keep Biden/Biden was senile wars, what are your best techniques for getting squirrels out of your attic? I’m THIS CLOSE to inviting some rural folks to stay with me for a while so they can hunt the squirrels for food. Might be fun having a few banjos in the house!
zhena gogolia
@Another Scott: Thoughtful comment.
Scout211
In Epstein news,
Last night’s opening segment of The Daily Show was really quite good. If you have 10 minutes, watch Michael Costa explain the whole Epstein birthday card details and other Epstein and Trump pervy details.
Trump’s Pervy Epstein Bday Card Released & MAGA Allies Run Cover | The Daily Show
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Steve in the ATL: Thermonuclear explosives should solve your problem. Granted, you’ll just be trading it for a bunch of new problems, but one thing at a time.
Professor Bigfoot
I don’t like to use the word “racist” in this context because these very people will use it against non-whites as in “YOU’RE THE REAL RACIST!”
I use white supremacy. Trump and Miller are both white supremacists.
We can argue about the fundamental motivations— Trump is a white supremacist because he’s white and he thinks HE is supreme. but Miller just hates people who are darker than a sheet of copy paper.
”There is no horseshoe. There is only white people who are at best uncomfortable with any power being held in Black hands. Those white people are at all points of the ‘left-right’ spectrum.”
They are white supremacists.
gene108
@Baud:
That’s no surprise. I’ve tried to imagine how South Koreans could sneak into the U.S. without valid visas and I keep coming up blank.
The worst possibility is a few of them overstayed their visas. This could’ve been handled by contacting HR to get proof of valid visas.
ICE is so damn racist, they’ll destroy the economy of this country to achieve their dream of a white ethnostate.
Professor Bigfoot
@Suzanne: I just came to the realization that the majority of Americans* are ignorant, stupid, and lazy.
It’s a theory that explains the observed phenomena. ;^)
Paul in KY
@Baud: I mean, no shit on Pres. Biden being so so so much betterer than TACO. However, he’s got to win an election and look like he’s physically up to the job (for the low info voters) and TACO has been slagging him left and right on his aging.
‘Self Interest” be damned, she should have given him her unvarnished opinion!
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: I worked with South Koreans for several years. The people I knew were particularly sensitive about racism on the part of Americans towards them (some irony there because of racist attitudes in Korea). They were justifiably proud of the manufacturing and tech powerhouse they have built out of basically nothing by sheer labor and persistence and always had a bit of a chip on their shoulder about being viewed as inferior to Japan and other Asian countries. I could see how this would royally piss them off. This all started with some chucklehead local MAGA pol who set this chain of events into motion. I imagine it’s a headache for Kemp, as Hyundai and other Korean companies have made huge investments in Georgia.
Professor Bigfoot
@Belafon: You know… Black women and Jews cannot be trusted— the vast majority of both demographics voted against Trump, you know.
Scout211
The initial report stated that some had recently expired work visas and some had travel visas.
When I posted that in a comment, my question was, okay that’s “some” and “some” but what about all the others?
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: TACO’s minions see those rich S. Koreans getting all that Squid Game money…
UncleEbeneezer
@Another Scott: Thank you. Everyone assumes that Biden announcing he wasn’t gonna run again (and doing so earlier in his term) would have somehow yielded a better result. I’m not at all convinced. Sure the PSAmerica douche-bags, Jake Tapper and an unhealthy number of people here would’ve enjoyed a nice circle-jerk over a contentious Dem Primary but it could have kneecapped Biden/Harris’ ability to govern and led to an actual electoral blowout. Too many bad actors, even on our side, were devoted to tearing down Biden/Dems. Biden stepping down earlier may have made the Dem Brand™ problems even worse.
Professor Bigfoot
I hadda go get a paper towel to wipe off my iPad. 🤣
Paul in KY
@Deputinize America: Israel/Netanyahoo still would have sent those missiles. Even if PRC was there at the big base.
To stop him from doing whatever the fuck he wants, there has to be regime change of some kind.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
I haven’t looked at the numbers, but it sure seems that the Dems get a shitload of money through ActBlue.
One thing I wonder is what the ActBlue and other small-dollar donations look like for different generations of Dem politicians. I bet AOC and Jasmine Crockett get more than enough small contributions that they don’t need to call up big donors, but I doubt that Chuck Schumer or Steny Hoyer are getting much money through ActBlue.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: God, I hope you get to attend!
Professor Bigfoot
@Another Scott: No way to know the future before it becomes the present.
One does the best one can with the cards one has been dealt.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
Paul in KY
@Juju: I think him and Apartheid Clyde must have made up.
bluefoot
One of the things that struck me about Kamala Harris is how she projects power. It’s very different than the white man traditional way. She’s very much a mixed race woman of color from Oakland….i speak as a mixed race woman of color of a similar age who lived in Oakland a long time. There’s joy in the struggle, and it’s a different approach to projecting and wielding power and authority. I think a lot of people don’t understand it because it’s not white male power.
gene108
@Geminid:
Along with an overwhelming Republican propaganda push that the MSM parroted. I think we grossly underestimate how much influence the Republican propaganda outlets had in influencing the 2024 election and people’s perception of Trump as a victim of “witch hunts”, who did good as president before and during COVID.
Paul in KY
@Scout211: God is she a horrible person. I would just get the ick from being in the same room with her. Read a story where she’s just gloating and gloating about it all.
She reminds me of TACO’s ‘Mouth of TACO’ liar.
Gin & Tonic
@Professor Bigfoot: ”Just”??
Professor Bigfoot
MANY folks here refuse to acknowledge that the Dem “brand” problem is that the Democrats are the party of Black people, Jews, LGBTQIA folks, and women… and the GOP is The Party of the White Man.
“There is no horseshoe. There is only white people who are at best uncomfortable with any power being held in Black (or Jewish or female, or LGBTQIA) hands. Those white people are at all points of the ‘left-right’ spectrum.”
MinuteMan
@Baud:
@Baud:
I haven’t looked up the numbers recently, but I have the sense that Dems over the last decade have become more reliant on small dollar donations.
Financially or emotionally reliant?
suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot:
Yeah.
Every debate that we have here, about messaging and vibes and normies and the media and going on Joe Rogan, etc etc etc….. is really about us bashing our heads against this fact, at the core.
Baud
@MinuteMan:
Is there a difference?
hueyplong
@Steve Paradis: What did the humble Ovaltine decoder ring ever do to you to deserve such disrespect?
Professor Bigfoot
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I struggled with that phrasing.
I came to the conclusion about 8 years ago but the “just” was how I deal with it: reject their advice and their opinions as being from stupid, stupid people.
“I came to the conclusion that most Americans* are simply stupid; and began to just reject their idiot maunderings out of hand.” 😉
Belafon
@Baud: Which one makes us feel morally superior to politicians?
sab
@Baud: The nice thing about having an e-book reader is I can buy big books and not have to worry about fitting them on a shelf somewhere.
BeaFitzAX
@Suzanne: totally agree at keast she had a sense of humor
WereBear
@Steve in the ATL: I’m STILL angry about that. Never held to account, either.
Hoodie
@Another Scott: I tend to think the structural anti-incumbent issues were more determinative and would have worked against whoever the Dems put forward. That said, I do wonder if Joe putting normalization above more aggressively addressing the threat to democracy – e.g., by having a less institutionalist AG and being more confrontational with the Supreme Court along the lines of FDR – enabled Trump to make a comeback. Of course, that problem extended beyond Joe to Dem leadership in general. There was a dissonance between declaring a crisis after J6 and then trying to act like everything was normal after the criminal leader of the insurrection was still free to rebuild his power in the GOP. Some people picked up on that and erroneously concluded he wasn’t a threat.
JPL
@Steve in the ATL: You have to seal all the points of entry. That will require some detective work on your part.
One word of advice, no banjos. Several years ago, the local high school got in trouble for playing dueling banjos, when the visiting team was from north GA.
jonas
21st century America in a nutshell. People don’t understand anything and the people they trust to “explain” all this incompehensible stuff to them are malicious or misinformed TikTok-ers.
Betty Cracker
@Professor Bigfoot: I think everyone here (regular commenters, anyway) gets that that is a major component of the Dems’ so-called brand problem. The disagreement arises around whether that is the only possible explanation and that any notion that there could be more to it than that constitutes denial.
WereBear
@Professor Bigfoot: Yeah. Went to school mostly in the small town deep South.
Moved a thousand miles to date in a deeper pool.
Paul in KY
@Steve in the ATL: Have to find out how they are getting in and close that off. Then put live traps up there baited with the finest nuts. You need to put a blanket over the trap (except for entrance). That makes it a cozy tunnel with yummy treat at end. Good luck!
sab
@Belafon: ICE in its current form is his creation, so yes he is to blame.
Professor Bigfoot
@sab: There was a recent Kindle sale on Terry Pratchett e-books.
Man, if I had that haul in “dead tree media” I’d need to build a whole new bookshelf!
lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
And that RFK Jr. brought his fan club along.
Paul in KY
@Professor Bigfoot: God bless them!
suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot:
I am by no means disagreeing with this, but there is also the issue that the Dem Party is a group of mostly good people who went to law school, who think that facts and policy matter, and who were not structurally prepared to deal with the onslaught of cruelty, lies, and emotional manipulation that the GOP has been perfecting for years. I certainly wish that that didn’t matter. But it does.
Belafon
@UncleEbeneezer: Look at all the mediocre white guys who tried to jump in to run a “primary” right after his announcement. The chances of beating Thanos with Tony not dying were higher than that turning out well.
Professor Bigfoot
@Betty Cracker: Considering that it’s mostly white people and almost all white men who are affected by that but who refuse to acknowledge that effect… well, there it is.
American white people simply DO NOT grapple with the role of white supremacy in their own lives, beliefs, and choices— or how that belief has shaped how WHITE PEOPLE have voted since 1965.
Betty
@Scout211: Assuming this isn’t a Facebook fake, MTG put up a large poster of the birthday card outside her office. It doesn’t make her a good person, but it should at least embarrass her lackey colleagues.
JPL
@Baud: There is a runoff for a state senate seat on the 23rd of this month. It’s a republican district and should not even be close but it is. Although I’m not in that district, I have seen several of the democrat’s signs. If she can turn out her fans, she wins.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I think you’re right and that raises two questions.
If the voters are not with us on an issue, should we back down or let it go?
Do we have to accept voters’ perceptions as they are or can we do something to change them?
I go for the second because I don’t view voters’ perceptions as innate or immutable. The Democratic donor class and leadership seems to lean toward the first because it’s faster and cheaper if all you are trying to do is win the next election.
Professor Bigfoot
@suzanne: I hear you, but I still believe the core of why white people hate the Democrats is because too many Black people and women and Jews have *power* in that party.
Sure, there are other factors involved, but IMHO the BIGGEST one is that one.
White Americans have a nervousness, if you will, about having anyone who is not also white being “above” them.
BY DEFINITION that would include the entire Democratic Party.
When white people angrily spit “LIBERAL!” at other white people, that word is shorthand for “nigger-lover.”
Obligatory #NotAllWhitePeople
lowtechcyclist
@Steve Paradis:
Did Tapper give a single instance in his book of a bad action or decision by the Biden Administration that they could claim Biden’s alleged dementia contributed to?
Baud
@JPL:
Fingers crossed.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: They refuse to see it because that would lead to some uncomfortable soul searching
White people know what their ancestors did to the ROW following the so called Age of Exploration. Which has been whitewashed. The misery and death that their so called explorations visited on the world.
Professor Bigfoot
@Melancholy Jaques: White voters are not with us on that “human rights are universal” thing.
Betty
@lowtechcyclist: So many “if onlys”. We just have to survive this onslaught one way or another.
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: Yup. Dems (wisely) center Black People and Jewish-Americans in their approach/pitches/messaging because they are the most loyal and reliable voters who make up our base and Dems HAVE TO keep them happy. But this really pisses off a lot people in our coalition. The Centrist assholes hated when BLM, CRT etc., were openly supported by the Dem Party, or Obama even dared to mention race. And the antisemites, er excuse me, “AntiZionists” absolutely resent the fact that Dems won’t sign on to the destruction of Israel and open discrimination against Jews. As you’ve noted numerous times: Dem messaging works just fine for Black and Jewish voters. And for many in our coalition, this is part of the problem…
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, I get that it can be painful.
Seeing something I said/did as being the sexist bullshit that it was was painful, but you cannot grow without experiencing some pain.
But that takes me back to how Americans* are, in the main, stupid, ignorant, and lazy.
Obligatory #NotAllAmericans
gene108
@bluefoot:
I think there are a lot of unconscious factors we’ve been conditioned into accepting with regards to what an authority figure is like.
A man who is above average in height who has can speak loudly, with an average deep voice to a rich deep voice comes off as authoritative to people.
For whatever reason, I think we assume a man who speaks loudly either knows what he’s talking about (why else would he be so loud?) or is a raging asshole. The perception of him really depends on the listener’s internal biases.
A deep voice projects manliness in men in a way a higher pitched male voice does not.
I don’t think we’ve internalized a subconscious image of what a powerful authoritative woman leader will be like. I think a lot of people cannot picture a woman as being a powerful authoritative leader.
I do not know how to develop a picture of what strong female leadership would be like for the public imagination.
Belafon
The great thing is we can continue this conversation in the next thread.
Professor Bigfoot
@UncleEbeneezer:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
suzanne
@Melancholy Jaques:
One of our bigger ongoing structural problems has been that voters often prefer our policy but don’t like us personally. I have referred here before to Arlie Russell Hothschild’s book Strangers in their Own Land, in which she goes to Cancer Alley, LA, and she meets people who are sickened by environmental contamination (aided and abetted by Republicans), who are completely dependent on Medicaid and various safety net programs….. but they vote for Republicans. Why? Because they view Democrats as allowing immigrants and minorities to “cut in line” and they think they’re godless abortionists.
As for the question about changing voters’ perceptions…. that’s a hard lift. It often takes companies years to do so successfully. Remember that perceptions of reality are often deeply emotional and not evidence-based.
gene108
@Professor Bigfoot:
This is also why Republicans are taken seriously no matter how wrong they are and how wrong they have been. The concerns of white men have trumped the concerns of every other group for centuries.
Professor Bigfoot
@gene108: PRECISELY what I’m on about when I speak of how white people generally do not question their own sub- and un-conscious beliefs and understandings and choices, and frankly are unwilling to do the internal work to understand those choices.
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: I make this point to my students/players every day: you can hit all your shots and still lose. You can do absolutely everything right and yet your house still burns down. Tennis is life.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Juju: I keep finding stories reporting that a GQP state-level candidate was the one that reported the Hyundai/LG plant to DHS. The stories sound believably white.
The raid itself sounds like something Noem and Miller cooked up themselves.
GQP overall is catastrophically inept at forecasting predictable consequences. I am reminded of all the GA businesses set up to support immigrant farm labor that have since folded as their market has packed up and moved on.
Rural Georgians will go back to their miserable existences, secure that Those People* didn’t replace them this time, missing out on the better standard of living that they crab-bucketed away, and maybe (just maybe) lamenting that they were just starting to like pho when that furrin’ dinner joint shut down.
lowtechcyclist
[Replying to Another Scott @69, since the Reply button is broken again]
Weren’t just about all of those bills passed before the 2022 midterms, when we still had a House majority? After that, even basic stuff like funding the government for another year was a challenge. I remember how it took several months to finally get a bill for Ukraine aid through after the funds from the previous bills had run out.
Point being that Biden could have stepped down on January 21, 2023 and handed the reins to Harris, and it would have made little difference in terms of what Congress passed.
suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot:
I agree with this. I think this is the first big layer of the “problem pyramid”…. the idea that the Dems care about people other than white guys.
The Dems, being functionally institutionalists and IMO overly optimistic about the effectiveness of facts and policy on voter behavior, have not been effective in anticipating or responding to GOP tactics. This is the second or third layer of the problem pyramid.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Betty Cracker: Is it just me, or does Felonious Thunk act like David from War Games if David had been actually wanting global thermonuclear war?
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Sure, Musk did his part. But I mention Wiles and LaCivita from time to time because I see outsiders dunking on Harris and her campaign for losing to an ignoramus like Trump, and Democrats kicking their own asses for the same reason.
Trump *was* a crappy candidate, but his managers ran an efficient and effective campaign that made the most of his path to victory. I think Democrats sell Harris and themselves short when they don’t recognize this.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Professor Bigfoot: OK, so how do Dems highlight that what is good for all Those Other People* is good for white volk too? How does the party transmit that DEI is in their best interests as well?
Librettist
Enjoy sleeping in O’Hare this holiday season, you stupid motherfuxkers…
JPL
@Geminid: The best decision they made was to deny Harris a second debate. fk em
Weather also played a significant role. trump painted FEMA’s failures as Harris’ failures. btw FEMA did an excellent job considering the flooding that the hurricane caused. imo
Belafon
@suzanne:
They have never truly prepared themselves for this. To tie into what the Prof is saying, most white people and males on our side have never truly thought “What are my core principles and why do I have them?” Oh, they know they want to be good people, but they haven’t really thought through what that implies. They haven’t thought through what being on the side of blacks or women or LGBTQ+ really means. So, in principle, they want to claim they’re on the side of good, but then they won’t confront their friend who makes a crude joke, they won’t confront their family member who makes a comment about blacks using SNAP to buy lobster, and when they get uncomfortable about blacks and trans people demanding the same rights as straight cis whites they don’t challenge their feelings, they decide that the other group is just pushing too fast or too far.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: Meet ICE Barbie:
I can’t link, but search “Tori Branum and Hyundai” and you’ll find it.
Professor Bigfoot
It really seems like the majority of white voters would prefer to get a pandemic from a white President than universal healthcare from a Black one.
Belafon
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): How do you tell a white guy that the more qualified black woman would be better for everyone if she were your manager?
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@gene108: Boudicca. Elizabeth I. Catherine di Medici. Catherine the Great. Maria Theresa. Isabella of Castile. Hatshepsut. [Spit] Margaret Thatcher. Angela Merkel. History is replete with examples of strong female leaders. Surely there is enough material there to formulate an effective model.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Belafon: Point out how bad the last white guy was at managing? Show where her white staff went on to better success thanks to her leadership? Use the “where do you see yourself in five years” trope to show where she could help everyone – including the white guy subordinate – get to. White male management is all about stagnation; that stagnation is the obstacle that needs eliminating.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Jackie: This is the tale I keep running into.
Professor Bigfoot
@UncleEbeneezer: Pro athletes in “sports cliche mode” talk about working hard to “put us in a position to achieve success.”
No matter how hard you train, how much you work, your “sport intellgence” level… lol, at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza last weekend, Nico Hulkenberg’s car suffered a hydraulic failure on the formation lap— they didn’t even get to race a single lap!
”Stuff happens,” and “the Universe conspires against us.”
Professor Bigfoot
@suzanne: I think they’re just having a lot of trouble accepting that white supremacy remains such an enormous motivator in their own lives.
stinger
@E.:
Here we go.
Professor Bigfoot
As well to ask “how do we get white people to stop being white supremacists?”
I do not have an answer to those… but I recognize the PROBLEM when I see it.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): Also Aung San Suu Kyi, Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, and a host of other not-explicity-Caucasian women in leadership.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Professor Bigfoot: However we define the problem, the solution is needed. And quickly.
Professor Bigfoot
QFT.
narya
@Professor Bigfoot: nominated for rotating tag status… despite the F1 spoiler. Hobbes apparently always said about Hulkenberg that he deserved a better car.
Geminid
@Deputinize America: Matters look differently from Doha than they do from 7,000 miles away in Kentucky. After yesterday’s attack, the Qatari Prime Minister spoke with Trump and the upshot was that Trump told Secretary Rubio to complete the new US/Qatar security agreement post-haste.
The fact is, China is incapable of defending Qatar and would never agree to because of that incapacity. The US can, and the fact that Israel snuck in a few missiles yesterday does not change that fact.
@Paul in KY: I read a some more reporting about the attack’s timeline that could be accurate. That is, Israel did not inform the US on its own initiative. The US detected the fighter-bombers flying towards the Gulf and asked the Israelis what was going on. The Israelis waited until the planes launched the air-to-ground missiles and then told the US what they were up to. The Qataris say they didn’t get word until the missiles were hitting.
suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot:
Oh, absolutely.
There’s also a ton of research and scholarly analysis around “health behaviors” being coded as feminine and thus unmanly.
Dave
@Professor Bigfoot: I do agree that it’s the largest motivating factor by far and a big chunk of what makes people so susceptible to propaganda messages that prey on that.
Professor Bigfoot
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): You don’t really believe the majority of white people will actually LISTEN to that, do you?
I mean, just how fucking bad did white people have to think Kamala Harris was to choose a 34 count felon over a former prosecutor, former CA AG, former US Senator, and sitting vice president?
Really, please, tell me how the fuck did the majority of white people think that felon was a better candidate OTHER THAN THAT HE WAS A FUCKING WHITE MAN??
Mai Naem mobile
@Belafon: there was an article about the latest CBS poll. Even after everything, white with college educations approve disapprove of Trump 40+/50+ and whites without college educations approve/disapprove was 50+/40+. How after everything do 40+ percent of educated people still approve this idiot? How is this number down into the 30s? And don’t even get me started the non educated idiots still approving the guy at 50+ percent. He’s literally hurting them more and they’re like ‘gimme some more of that!’
Professor Bigfoot
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): It’s going to take white people to internalize that and actually DO THE FUCKING WORK.
But as long as the majority of that demographic looks upon outright white supremacy and fascism as “well, it won’t hurt me— might even help!” then we will be in this place.
IT’S WHITE PEOPLE.
stinger
@WereBear:
I agree. Don’t run on policy, and don’t run on vibes. Run on VALUES. That’s what got Joe Biden the nomination and the election.
Professor Bigfoot
@narya: He’s better than Sauber as a team, for sure.
And a better guy than the current World Champion, but don’t let me get started or I’ll be fuming about Abu Dhabi ‘21 AGAIN. 😉😂
JML
@Professor Bigfoot: I mean, I agree. The only other factor that keeps getting discounted is the “fix it all faster” effect, where the instant gratification folks picked the GOP in 2024 simply because they wanted change from the party currently in power. That drove a lot of elections internationally from the global pandemic, and any Democrat was going to be seen be these types of voters as status quo, not a step forward. It’s stupid and short-sighted, but so are the typical voters. It’s one of the reasons it’s been so hard for one party to hold the presidency after 2 consecutive terms.
But the basic racism and sexism of so many white people keeps screwing over the country. They always have an excuse, too. “I’ll vote for a woman, but not THAT woman. I’ll vote for a black person, but not THAT black person.” (“I voted for Obama, I don’t need to vote for another black person”?) And boy howdy do people get Big Mad if you suggest that race may have impacted their decision-making…
narya
@Professor Bigfoot: oh come sit next to me. I have not stopped being enraged by that.
JML
@Mai Naem mobile: wealthy white people are still doing fine…because they always do fine. And so long as people think someone else is getting hurt more, they’ll keep eating this sh!t up, right up until it ruins them completely…then they’ll be demanding the federal government save them. We’re seeing it from farmers already.
Scout211
Link at #66
Geminid
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): Don’t forget Tomyris. When Cyrus the Great asked for Tomyris’s hand in marriage, the wily nomad Queen knew he was just after her lands and refused. Cyrus would not take no for an answer and invaded.
Cyrus had conquered every kingdom from the Persian Gulf to the Aegean Sea by then, but he met his match in Tomyris’s warriors. Legend has it that when they brought her Cyrus’s head, Tomyris plunged it in a bucket of blood and then told it, “Next time try a dating service.”
tam1MI
“Will you sign the discharge petition/vote to release the Epstein files, yes or no?”
bluefoot
@gene108: yeah, I agree on this. Up until pretty recently, women in power were taken seriously when they projected power and authority in the same way as white men. It’s been changing, but slowly.
Professor Bigfoot
@narya: I’m starting to hate MV quite as much as I once did… but I will always hate Redbull and their TWO MF TEAMS under that fucker Helmut Marko… how TF do they manage to actually run 4 cars as essentially one team and get away with it…
SEE, I’m sitting here fuming about it again!!
suzanne
@Belafon:
I honestly don’t believe that most people think about core principles or values at all. They think about politics as whose interests are served. We keep talking about politics as an expression of values about the world and probably half of America doesn’t think about it that way.
And I have said before that sexism/racism/etc. shapes one’s view of normal. No animus is required. They think that the natural, correct order is white men controlling everything.
schrodingers_cat
@stinger: E’s tiny mesh for “acceptable” Ds is going to be zero at the end, is my prediction.
@Professor Bigfoot: Yes.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: I haven’t checked the timeline in detail, but you may be right on that. MillerCenter.org – Timeline of Biden Administration events shows a bunch of important stuff still happening in 2023 and 2024 even if not much legislation made its way through.
On the other hand, politics is slow. Even back in the simpler days, there were 4 factions in the Democratic Party in 1968 and it was around 2-3 weeks after Johnson coming in second in NH and him dropping out on March 31. It was roughly a month after the debate when Biden dropped out.
Point being, dropping out is a very big deal. These days it would not be possible for serious thoughts about him dropping out in January to be bottled up for weeks or months. It would have affected the election. And if he said in October – no way I’m dropping out, but in January did so, it would have pissed a lot of people off (along with exciting others) and would have made things like the Ukraine aid more difficult.
Counterfactuals are fun, and we’ll never really know.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
WereBear
@gene108:
But movies have been doing it for two decades. It’s been rejected, but doesn’t mean it’s not there.
cope
@Betty Cracker: I’ll be watching for your workshop post but for now, my initial thought is that if you only have five minutes, pick one topic and hammer the shit out of it.
WereBear
@Professor Bigfoot: Or even realize choices are being made.
dww4
@Baud: As a Georgian, most of my extended family are Republican voters and some have turned themselves into Trump cultists, at obvious costs to their ability to make logical arguments.
To wit: yesterday on the FB page of one of the younger than me relatives (40 something) he posted about supporting the ICE raid and his commenters weighed in. One of their arguments is that the 7.1 billion investment was, after all, done during a Democratic administration, so that made it suspect.
Kemp got this investment and was extraordinarily proud of it. Insofar as I know he’s been publicly mum on the whole issue. More than a decade ago Kia built an auto plant in NW Georgia and absolutely every Republican supported it. Kia IS part of Hyundai.
They have to turn themselves into pretzels to argue that it’s no big loss that we’ve dissed an ally. They also don’t know the history of our alliance with S Korea.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Professor Bigfoot: Why, yes, please do give up on white folks ever recognizing anyone besides themselves as human. That’s absolutely a winning strategy.
/s
Seriously, though, without making inroads into that ethnicity, what kind of victory over Murican fascism do you think is possible? And what means would you suggest to make those inroads if not these? Ethnic cleansing is off the table, is it not?
I’m looking for an effective approach to engaging a potentially key constituency, and “write them all off as a lost cause” ain’t it.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Professor Bigfoot: I will say it again: giving up on an entire population segment is not a winning strategy.
And if, as you say, it takes “white people doing their homework”, then engagement to get them that homework is essential. The ones that need it won’t go get it themselves without a push, and the “push” they are getting right now is coming from the Right.
Or do you anticipate that a coalition of Everyone Else is a winning proposition? There are right-leaning elements in each community: conservatives in Hispanic and Asian communities, sexism in each, TERFs among the LGBTQ community, etc etc. Is it possible to organize a unified front from among those communities to offset the “white people” that are the problem here?
Ruckus
I’m not all that much younger than Joe Biden. And this aging thing is different on the slowing down side than on the growing up side of life. Can’t say it’s the opposite but it really is different, as I’d bet a fair number of long time commenters on this blog might be able to agree with. I think social pressure may be a good phrase to use here. Now add in the most powerful office with decisions that have to be made and while Joe Biden has the experience of the job, there comes a point. Now Joe Biden is 4 years older than shitforbrains but all of us age differently. Some depends on our “character.” In the office of president I believe that concept of the whole is far more important than concept of self. And in that comparison Joe Biden and djt seem to me to be complete opposites. Joe Biden is a competent person who looks at the whole. djt looks in the mirror. And that aside age has a hell of a lot to do with day to day. I’m not far behind either of them and want that pressure? No fing way. I’ve owned 2 businesses, I’ve been in charge and run a department on a USN ship. And I’m younger than either Joe Biden or tump. Not much younger but younger. Why would I want that level of pressure? I do not.
Now I also think that our government/politics is having a tad of a problem. Meeting the demands of the two biggest sides of our politics is a very demanding, constant, important job and requires a person that wants to do the job, not just own the title. And our politics is two seemingly completely different groups of humans. And I’m not sure that one side even gives a damn that it actually does the job, but rather seems to want the ultimate power of control. Of everything. And that is not a democracy.
We all should – and many/most on our side of the aisle seem to – want what is best for all of us and the country. The current other side seems to only be concerned about themselves and their seeming ideal that they get everything and the opposition gets doodly squat.
jonas
@Geminid: I agree — I think that security conference was a breakthrough moment for her and I know the Europeans were particularly impressed as well. She would have made a solid president.
On Biden trying to run again, I think Harris’s take will be vindicated.
tam1MI
I am not going to make myself popular here today on this, but, having read the Atlantic excerpt, other than her words about Joe Biden, Kamala Harris does not come off well in it. She keeps complaining and complaining about how the President’s staffers refused to talk her up, or refused to push back on negative press coverage she received, and it doesn’t seem to occur to her that maybe the reason they didn’t* is because it WASN’T THEIR JOB! She had her own staff that should have been doing that, and if they didn’t, it is on them. (There is a very real possibility that they tried but the press kept lying about and attacking her anyway, in which case she is misplacing blame here).
* – Assuming her assertion that they didn’t is correct.
geg6
@Steve in the ATL:
I’m not sure, but I think you think I trashed a Democrat in my comment. I did not, just in case I’m right. I wrote a comment very generally phrased that was about my own self care, which has me avoiding rehashing how we got into this disaster. I prefer to look ahead and not put myself into the black hole of depression that I’ve been in since last November. Sorry if my mental health isn’t your priority but it certainly is mine.
Paul in KY
@Belafon: ‘Clem, I’ve decided that for the manager position Marquesha is the best and most experienced candidate. Thus, I am giving her the position, as I think she’s the most qualified and also did best in the interviews. I want to thank you for applying for the position and please continue to do your great work for Marquesha. Any questions?’
Paul in KY
@Geminid: That does not surprise me. Same shit (IMO) has been going on since the USS Liberty attack.
Paul in KY
@Professor Bigfoot: Alot of these ‘common clay of the New West’ types are single issue (anti-choice) voters, so for their addled brains, it matters not who the Democratic nominee is (Joe, Kamala, Jesus), as long as we are Pro Choice, those doofuses are going to vote GQP. As if TACO wouldn’t fund abortions left and right if he thought it was in his best interests to do so.
PatD
@Baud: I think Georgia may have been the only, or one of few states, that actually trended left in Biden/Harris counties from 2020->2024.
hoytwillrise
@bluefoot: Yes, this is true. Good observation.
prostratedragon
@Belafon:
This was Biden’s problem. Coming off the fierce workload described above, only to have thrust in one’s a 10 gallon container of Not This Motherfucker Again™ bowl prep would tie anyone up. As I recall, he got much better after a few minutes when something came up that he could loose his mind on.
Ruckus
@Professor Bigfoot:
I’m one of them and I agree with this comment.
I will say that it does depend on the individual person and how they see skin color but in the greater scheme of things I see a not insignificant amount of agreement is necessary. My only opposite is that it is actually the individual person, not their skin color that makes the difference. Now it may all revolve around skin color, which is the point for way, way, way too many humans. Not all mind you but not even close to an insignificant percentage.
We are all humans. Not all of us are good, decent humans. Some of us are decent humans on most days. Some never are. It’s humanity, in all its science, concepts, governments, intelligence. It is recognizing that the differences come from 2 sides, physical and mental. And some humans are far more mental than others. And mental can be 2 completely different sides of that same coin. Decent or pure shit. That doesn’t take into account intelligence. Which doesn’t always affect how one sees the world around them. Hate and stupidity are 2 human concepts. They have opposites. Which sometimes do not show themselves. Would living be fun without all the emotions, levels of intelligence, learning ability, desires, hate/love, an over abundance of stupidity – often or rarely, and all the other bits and pieces that make up humanity, both positive and NEGATIVE.
One of the things that shows humanities poor side is a war of dominance. Hitler would be a good example. There are others. Too many others.
My point is that we are different in many ways, and not so different unless we have to have hate as a baseline emotion. Most of those ways of difference is of no real need, but a very small concept of survival of the whatever. We’ve seen in time not all that far back that survival can be difficult, but we as humans often make it harder than necessary. Often a hell of a lot harder. I believe that many humans still take survival as the overriding concept of living and believe that their survival means the non survival of others. That last bit is the overriding part. I’ve got no answer.
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: To me the growth and knowledge that I’ll be better going forward (and maybe help others do so, as well) more than outweighs the pain of facing the fact that I did/said/believed shitty things in the past.
One thing I’ve found really helpful in doing the internal work is trying to remember that (as a podcaster I used to love put it): I am not my White Supremacist (or Misogynist or whatever) indoctrination.
We marinade in a sea of Isms/Phobias from the day we are born so of course we are going to absorb them and do/think shitty things. But they aren’t who we are, at least, not forever. We can (and should) change and grow etc. Part of doing that is not getting defensive and paralyzed by guilt for our sins, but instead acknowledging them, making amends, doing better and moving on. Too many people let their fragility be an excuse to avoid doing the work.
Ruckus
@suzanne:
To think that way one has to first SEE the bigger picture. Many humans have such a narrow point of view (no matter what that view is) that they could never see the entire bigger picture. And that stops most all forward motion. A side note. All animals first priority is survival. Now that can take many, many different roads and at some point some will make a decision different than most every other human, say falling on a grenade to save other lives. (A pretty rare and very extreme example – but not one that’s never happened) As above, a basic animal trait is survival. And yes we are animals. Now some of us can read/hear and understand the world around us and some cannot. Some want to know and others do not. Some want a perfect life and most know that’s bullshit. Close may be available but perfection? First that’s in the eye of the beholder, second perfect for one may be a disaster for everyone else. Need I mention war for greed? How many wars in human history are not for greed of one side? Not going to hold my breath waiting…. It’s be said that humanity takes all forms and sides. I say we have all forms and sides. Not that we need all sides/forms but we need most of them and we are going to have them, want/like it or not. Because that’s how life works. We have churches – for a possible better way. We have prisons – for defined worse ways. We have schools to teach thought and options rather than pure obedience. And we have all the levels in between. And we now have ways to discuss them, like what we are doing here.
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
Growth takes many forms. In a modern world (say this one) growth still takes each of us doing our part. Our part may be smaller than it used to be, and the way may have changed, gotten easier (or harder, or bigger) but growth takes desire to some degree, takes time, even if we don’t have a lot, effort to move forward and for the better for each and all, and that takes that time and effort and desire and understanding of where we are and where we want to be. It takes imagination, realistic imagination of what our portion of the future can look like. And it takes understanding that moving forward takes steps – big and little ones. Not everyone will have all or any of that, including the desire. Otherwise it’s existing. Which is most people. And never forget that some ALWAYS want to move backasswards.
bluefoot
@Professor Bigfoot: OMG don’t get me started on Abu Dhabi 2021. And the absolutely glee on the part of some of the racing community that somehow the n****r got his and the world had been righted.
dnfree
@prostratedragon: I do not recall that Biden got much better. Only slightly better. He was the one who asked for the early debate, and then he was overextended and apparently not prepared for it.
Kayla Rudbek
@Steve in the ATL: my grandfather used to live trap them and drive across the river before he would let them out (you have to be born in St. Paul to be able to navigate in St. Paul, so presumably the squirrels got very lost trying to find a way back across the Mississippi River and home into Minneapolis again). Although I would always wonder if there was some other cranky old man in St. Paul who was live-trapping squirrels and driving them into Minneapolis to get them out of his backyard…
Kayla Rudbek
@Professor Bigfoot: I suppose it’s good for my wallet that I missed that sale, but now I feel like I missed out.
Kayla Rudbek
@suzanne: Biotechnology and biology in general are coded as feminine (because there’s parity or close to it in male/female job holders).
Kayla Rudbek
@Mai Naem mobile: brainwashing by their churches (particularly the anti abortion ones)
Kayla Rudbek
@Paul in KY: as if TACO (or his daddy) hasn’t paid for at least a double digit number of abortions of his own children
Paul in KY
@Kayla Rudbek: You know it! Probably stiffed the people performing the abortions too.