Yesterday evening, debit linked to this outstanding 7-minute YouTube video by Angela at the Parkrose Permaculture account.
Really smart, interesting, nuanced take. I’ll be keeping an eye on what she has to say going forward.
A very nice change from a lot of the hysteria you see on social media.
Watch the video, please, and share your thoughts.
Karen Gail
Watched yesterday and was worth watching again.
I commented that they were going to turn Kirk into a saint and martyr; today that is happening.
Karen Gail
What concerns me is the number of people who have come out strongly against the “radical left” or anyone who isn’t worshipping Trump and maga.
WaterGirl
If he had died in a fluke accident, I would have said the world was better off without him. But the way he died? That’s what makes this a big deal. We don’t need this to be the car backfiring that starts the riot because everyone thinks it’s a gunshot.
But it is what it is, and the right will spin it whichever way suits their agenda. I just hope that no innocent people get railroaded because they are the right demographic.
I have been away from the internet since yesterday evening. Is there any credence to the story about the guy in the white hat who touched the brim of the hat and touched his ear, seconds before the shots were fired?
OGliberal
The one good thing to come out of the lionization of this Kirk character is that it’s knocking 9/11 humping from the top headlines. I watched the towers come down from a few blocks East of the complex and a college friend died in the South tower so I know it was terrible but freaking Americans seems to want to re-live the mostly irrational and overblown fear they experienced as a result.
Ishiyama
And today, who remembers George Lincoln Rockwell?
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: I feel like our discussion of the myriad improvisations on pesto sauce in one of the threads yesterday was a fine way to treat Charlie Kirk’s legacy with the gravitas it deserves.
I am considerably more distraught about the larger implications political and gun violence has on the country.
I wanna try the arugula pesto someone suggested. I especially love arugula for being evidence of Obama’s bougie-ness.
Sister Golden Bear
FBI released two surveillance cam photos of a “person of interest” walking up stairs. I’m sure you’ll be shocked to learn it’s a young white man wearing a t-shirt with an America flag and something (a pistol or someone giving a Hitler salute?) superimposed over the flag. Also a logo or insignia on his baseball cap Hard to make out what either are due to the low resolution.
Old School
Belafon
@WaterGirl: I don’t want anyone to die except of natural causes. I wanted Kirk and people like him to see everything they planned fall apart in the end.
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
Standard gear for the liberal militia.
Soapdish
@Suzanne: OMG I used the whole Pesto meme in a number of places around the interwebs
Also, yes, that video is great.
Suzanne
@Soapdish: I might need to make some pesto this weekend. I was also intrigued by the pistachio idea!
Kelly
An accomplice standing where the white hat guy was would be pointless.
Belafon
@Sister Golden Bear: So the options are:
Salty Sam
I saw that vid yesterday- a really good nuanced response. “It’s OK to feel relief and gratitude when a person who actively hurts others is neutralized, and cannot hurt people any more.” I’ve been thinking about the ending of the Disney movie “Ol’ Yeller”- six year old me sobbed uncontrollably in the theater, and yet, I knew that it had to happen. Imperfect analogy, sure, but it’s where my brain took me.
In other news, I tested positive for Covid yesterday afternoon, and feel like hammered shit today. Oy.
MattF
One reaction I’ve seen that’s food for thought is the notion that Kirk was a ‘groomer’ of young men. There’s a specific vulnerable sub-group of young men that Kirk recognized, encouraged, and then exploited for political purposes.
ASC
Stopped at “…Charlie Kirk’s expiration…”.
Too much spin in that alone to think my time spent viewing this will be objective in any manner.
Belafon
@Sister Golden Bear: Imagine if we find out this was someone who listened to Loomer.
Wapiti
Good video.
Sister Golden Bear
@Belafon: Presumes the shooter engraved trans symbols on the cartridges. Not that Kash’s FBI might make up something that aligns with the MAGA narrative…
ETA: FYI turns out that the recent “trans” shooter, while he had legally changed his name, had detransitioned some prior to the shooting and was presenting as a man when he bought his guns. Nor was he on hormone therapy.
OGliberal
@Sister Golden Bear: The shirt – it’s an eagle super-imposed over an America flag with the text “Land of the Free…Home of the Brave”. Apparently, it’s very common and looks like a shirt non-lunatic normies would wear at a 4th of July parade…no way to determine anything ideological from it.
WSJ is reporting that “sources” say the gun had bullets engraved with anti-fascist and trans slogans…or something like that. Nothing official about that from the cops, FBI or state government. It may well be false but “it’s out there”.
What is it about transgender people that turn people into raging lunatics? I mean, to hear the right tell it, every trans person on the planet is a raging killing machine, just moments away from taking out a bunch of straight, “real” Americans.
Ishiyama
@Sister Golden Bear: As a commenter on JMG asked: “Where’s the rifle? Up his ass?”
Chief Oshkosh
@Belafon:
Many people, the best people, are saying that.
/s
me
@Sister Golden Bear: Think that’s an eagle. There are lots of shirts that look like that such as ebay.us/m/JPQ7yq .
Shakti
I mourn today.
I mourn Atti. Today would be 21 years since her funeral. She was like a bonus grandma to me. She was an immigrant, a poet, composer, founder of several cultural organizations. Her husband who died before i was born came to the US on a Fulbright scholarship. She helped found a bank of emergency translators.
I am of a certain age, and had relatives who lived in NoVa and NYC I was worried for, so I have 9/11 memories. And I mourn what we’ve lost since then.
MattF
@OGliberal: Fair to suspect that ‘sources’ were FBI agents sucking up to the new regime. Bear in mind that they’ve all passed a political test.
me
@OGliberal: Yup, here it is ebay.us/m/JPQ7yq .
WereBear
This account is a favorite of mine.
Charlie Kirk WAS willing to die for his beliefs… as it turned out… because he was in a death cult.
Betty Cracker
Steve M made a great point about Kirk’s (and fellow travelers’) views on the 2nd Amendment, i.e., that it’s not for hunting or personal defense but to empower individual citizens to oppose tyranny:
Yep. It’s a pretty obvious flaw in that outlook.
In one public appearance (clip at Steve M’s place), Kirk claimed the Biden admin was a fascist regime, and when a follower asked, “When do we get to use the guns?” Kirk said it would be counterproductive to start shooting over covid restrictions because it would invite a government crackdown.
But like Steve said, if you put guns in the hands of hundreds of millions of people and tell them they have a duty to oppose tyrants, you’re telling them they have agency to decide when that’s appropriate.
We don’t know why the dude who shot Kirk did it, but maybe he felt like he was opposing a tyrant by taking out one of his powerful (culturally) allies. By Kirk’s own logic, isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
Tazj
Saying political violence is always wrong is not controversial in light of yesterday’s killing. People aren’t talking about Hitler or Stalin or Assad and shouldn’t be, they are very different things. I think that’s straightforward and bringing up Hitler is silly.
That said, you are allowed to feel however you want to about, and shouldn’t be made to feel sad. I don’t personally feel happy about what happened for many reasons and many of them are very self interested reasons. This doesn’t help Democrats or make the country safer. Yes, he spread some horrible rhetoric but unfortunately there are many more people just like him.
rusty
To pick a different topic, the stock market seems insane. Jobs are disappearing, (it takes roughly 130,000 new jobs a month to keep up with population growth. Anything less than that is job losses), inflation is ticking up near 3% and is forecast to go higher (well above the Fed target of 2%), and the DOW jumped over 500 points to yet another record high. The market seems completely disconnected from actual economy. Yes, the obscene tax cuts will boost profitability, but at some point a failing economy erode all those gains. There is a reason I am not a broker, I have historically been wrong on predictions (thank god for targeted retirement funds, boring and they do the work I would screw up), but all that said, this feels like a big disconnect.
Ishiyama
@rusty: I’ll take Black October for $500.
Belafon
@Tazj: In what way is Hitler being brought up that you are referencing? Do you have examples?
neldob
Like she said, no one is thinking of the school shot up yesterday, or the many schools shot up, thanks to no common sense gun reform. The repercussions of this murder may be bad, also ‘live by the sword die by the sword’. I won’t miss him.
Citizen Alan
@Sister Golden Bear: The longer they go without catching the guy, the more I think he’s a MAGA or something on that side of the spectrum and the feds know it but don’t want his true identity and politics to get in the way of Trump using Kirk’s death to whip up hate against liberals.
Sister Golden Bear
@OGliberal:
That sounds plausible. The only photos I’ve seen were low-res and I’m viewing them on my phone.
FWIW, people who study mass shooters say they generally don’t have any coherent philosophy, and their manifestos and messages added to the guns are all over the place and often contradictory. So there’s no actual message there just trolling for lurlz. Their only real motivation (usually) is being celebrated within their own mass shooting fan subculture, especially as the inspiration for the next mass shooter.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Yes, that was nicely done!
Funny, someone asked if we can have a pesto thread sometime so all the pesto ideas can be in one place. Might be a nice Saturday or Sunday afternoon thread.
WaterGirl
@Salty Sam: i’m sorry to hear you have Covid. Seems like there’s a lot of that going around.
Citizen Alan
@OGliberal: I think it’s that, because of the fundamental dichotomy of trans existence, they can trigger irrational fears of being sexually assaulted in both men and women. TERFS are afraid that trans women are going to assault them in the rest room or the girls’ locker room. Conservative men are terrified that they might “mistakenly” have sex with a trans woman, which they consider the equivalent of being raped by a gay man.
All of conservativism is a pathology of one kind or another.
Harrison Wesley
@Belafon: 3. The trans symbol story is bullshit.
laura
@WaterGirl: That’s the false flag rumor I heard this morning with the Instagram clip. Fishy, Yes. Dispositive, not as of yet. I’d be surprised that they were anything other than his security detail, but, then again, I’m just an old salty gal with zero security state experience.
Sister Golden Bear
@Citizen Alan: Also harder to investigate a serious crime when they’ve getting all the competent FBI agents—a “legendary” investigator for the local FBI office was just forced out, seemingly because she’s a Pakistani-American woman.
Although porque no los dos?
WaterGirl
@neldob: There is apparently a hierarchy of how much different lives matter in terms of being noteworthy, important, or of value to these people. Apparently children and Democrats are quite low on that list. Trans people may well be at the very bottom, even lower than the dreaded immigrants and other people of color.
debit
@Ishiyama: It’s possible that the shooter left it in position before the event started.
WaterGirl, thanks for highlighting the video. I hope more people follow her. We need measured voices, not to cool our passions, but to direct them into productive action.
me
bsky.app/profile/audacityofdespair.bsky.social/post/3lylaexd2tk2u
Incompetence.
Here’s a shirt closeup bsky.app/profile/torrleonard.bsky.social/post/3lyl65vmdk227
Matt McIrvin
@Citizen Alan: To them, if by chance you as a man find a trans woman attractive, that makes YOU gay. So trans people threaten their own sexual identity.
rikyrah
@Suzanne:
UTAH just recently passed that it was ok to OPEN CARRY ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS
The students thought that a mofo carrying around a rifle WAS PHUCKING NORMAL.
THE NORMAL reaction to seeing someone carrying around a RIFLE IS TO CALL THE POLICE.
BUT, because if was PHUCKING LEGAL….
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@WaterGirl:
Ain’t no ‘apparent’ about it. The right’s reaction to Sandy Hook, then and all these years later, convinced me of that.
Belafon
@Citizen Alan: Which is why we need to spread the theory that he died to cover up the Epstein files.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
YEAH,
if only they had competence at the SLC office heading it right now.
Belafon
@Harrison Wesley: I know.
Eyeroller
@rusty: Markets expect a rate cut and they (some personification there) think very short-term.
SiubhanDuinne
@Citizen Alan:
Nominated.
Ruckus
@rusty:
There are a lot of people who will buy stocks. It can be a good investment. It isn’t always.
However, an economy may have guard rails but they often guard the economy rather than individual investors. The Dow is a scoreboard, not a predictor of safe investment. It is often taken for one. I see nothing wrong with investing – BUT. It’s not like going to the store and buying groceries. It is almost always buying a risk. Now the risk may be small or it may be extreme. That’s the nature of investing in stocks, you should know and understand what you are doing and be prepared to loose your investment. It’s like going to Las Vegas.
Jeffro
sorry bud!
rest as much as you can, and hydrate your brains out…it sure shortened my down time last month
prostratedragon
They Call Me Noni
Spinach pesto is also a thing! And who doesn’t love spinach? Just be sure to wash it well. And I am very interested in trying a batch of arugula pesto.
Jeffro
YUP
There’s also the fact that the difference between a bad guy with a gun and a good guy with a gun could be as little as
a bad day
a bad hour
a bad moment
a stubbed toe
a dropped dictionary or car backfiring
a misheard comment
an unfavorable evaluation at work
a low grade
a relationship break-up
a day ending in ‘Y’
And in all of the above, a ‘good guy’ can flip to ‘bad guy’ in .5 of a second
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Max Granger on Klein’s FTFNYT’s piece:
Lapassionara
@Sister Golden Bear: Why would anyone engrave anything on a cartridge? Wouldn’t that affect the accuracy of the shot?
mrmoshpotato
@Suzanne:
Maybe it will make the reichwing actually give a damn about
gun controlpesto.They Call Me Noni
@Matt McIrvin: Good grief but these folks are scared of their own shadow. It must be miserable to be so damned narrow minded and judgemental.
Eunicecycle
@Lapassionara: I am betting that they didn’t. The FTFNYT actually said that was a “sources say” (unnamed of course) and that official sources say nothing about it. So cast doubt on that report.
They Call Me Noni
@mrmoshpotato: It could be a whole new vibe. Love, peace and PESTO!!!
AselFoley
@Belafon:
Is it irresponsible to speculate?
gene108
@ASC:
YouTube censors content creators who use certain forbidden words.
There’s a lot of different ways content creators try to get around this censorship of words like suicide, rape, etc. Assassination and murder may be on the list of the forbidden words.
Josie
Just now on Political Wire:
debit
@gene108: Exactly. There’s a reason they use phrases like “unalive” and call Nazis Yahtzees instead.
Elizabelle
@Eunicecycle: WaPost’s take was that the information might have come from an actual law enforcement bulletin, but that does not mean it has been proven true.
Some of the information pans out; some of it turns out to be inaccurate, after the fact.
Tazj
@Belafon: The person in the above video says that after the shooting some people were saying on their social media “all political violence is wrong!” Her response to that is “what, you think it was wrong to try to take out Hitler?” So I think she means saying that is worthless and essentially virtue signaling because really no one is or should be against all political violence because leaders like Hitler existed and the only way they could have been taken out is through violence. I think that there is big difference between Hitler and Kirk. There may be a rush to appear good or righteous it’s not a bad thing. Even if you’re not pure of heart and you post “I condemn all political violence” , that’s not a bad thing and not worth debating IMHO.
How you feel about things is different to me and I know some people on social media felt like they were being chastised for not feeling sad over what happened and that is more worthy of discussion to me.
ExPatExDem
This is one of those moments where the world watches with a mix of bemusement and horror as the United States sternly condemns violence at home, while also making guns broadly available to anyone, and constantly exporting violence around the globe.
Betty Cracker
According to sources cited by NY Mag, reports about the supposed engravings on the ammo might be bullshit:
I don’t know how can we can trust anything that comes out of Kash Patel’s MAGA-fied FBI. They’ve spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.
ExPatExDem
@Tazj: A personal example along those lines is one I saw this morning of a friend who made a sincere post “opposing all political violence” that also featured a painting of General George Washington praying.
The absolute contradiction of the two things didn’t register with her at all.
debit
@ASC: It’s a perfectly cromulent word, and as was pointed out, YouTube (and other social media) creators are heavily censored, demonetized or even banned for the tiniest of reasons. Caitlin Doughty (Ask a Mortician) has pretty much given up on YouTube as her content keeps getting deleted because she talks about (surprise!) death.
oklahomo
@debit: There are a number of crime channels who’ve resorted to using the phrase “PDF file” because the word “pedophile” can lead to demonetization.
Elizabelle
@ExPatExDem: The little darling.
Thank you for the laugh.
Also, haven’t you noticed how rightwingers tend to canonize George Washington? Among all the early presidents.
Ishiyama
@They Call Me Noni: I have, in the past, made pesto from shisho. And enjoyed it.
Suzanne
Y’all know that I hate-read a lot of terrible people. Decided to check in on arguably the worst of them all, Rod Dreher:
(I removed the link.)
These people are SO FUCKED UP. “Don’t watch this ultra-compelling thing that I watched!!!!”
mrmoshpotato
@Jeffro:
Nice phrasing.
rikyrah
Brian Allen (@allenanalysis) posted at 11:18 PM on Wed, Sep 10, 2025:
🚨 Something doesn’t add up.
Everything we know so far points to Charlie Kirk’s assassin being a trained professional, not some unhinged amateur with a grudge.
Let’s break this down:
— One shot. One kill. From hundreds of yards away. That’s sniper-level precision.
— No attempt to spray bullets or take out multiple targets. No chaos. Just the hit.
— The shooter fled immediately after confirming impact. No showboating. No manifesto. Just extraction.
— Evaded law enforcement on-site—local and federal. That takes planning. Skill. Training.
If this were some lone nut or keyboard radical, we’d be seeing sloppier evidence trails. But this was surgical.
This wasn’t rage. It was a mission.
(x.com/allenanalysis/status/1965993231050490171?t=8c8P1DEli1gkUvcNEOhYmw&s=03)
JoyceH
@Betty Cracker: Patel has been reacting to this story like a podcaster, not like an FBI director. But frankly, I blame the Senate. If the Senate had done their job, a crackpot who sold supplements that could allegedly “undo” your COVID vaccination would have never even made it out of committee, much less be confirmed as FBI director. If you confirm a crackpot, you get a crackpot, what else can you expect?
Also – there are “trans symbols”? What the heck are trans symbols?
mrmoshpotato
@They Call Me Noni:
Popeye.
ExPatExDem
@Suzanne: I will agree with him that the video was awful. Like horror movie bad.
And the human in me feels sympathy for his widow and children that this video will be floating out in cyberspace for all time.
Citizen Alan
No, you’re overthinking things. It’s really very simple. Conservatives place NO VALUE AT ALL on human life unless the loss of that life can be used politically against liberals. That’s it. They don’t care about kids dying in school shootings but think legal abortion is “a Holocaust.” Charlie Kirk dying while in the literal act of mocking gun control is a tragedy. A Democrat being attacked and/or killed is, at best, worthy of being ignored and at worst mocked (as Kirk himself did about Paul Pelosi). I remain absolutely convinced that, on 9/11, the secret reaction of most GOP politicians in their heart of hears was a giddy delight that they would have all those bloody shirts to wave in our faces.
Belafon
@Tazj: Agree. Hitler was different because he definitely crossed the line from politics to war.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: Good article on that from MSNBC. I think another jackal linked this earlier today. Author is Ken Dilanian.
Sadly, it begins with an enormous full color photo of Kash Patel.
High-ranking FBI job losses disproportionately hurt women, people of color
Leaders are undertaking an unprecedented campaign to force senior officials off the job.
NOTE: This is the field office now handling the Charlie Kirk murder investigation.
And — curious:
WTFGhost
Um… you were asking a question that I think you kinda answered.
Why does the Right do this? Because there aren’t many transfolk, so, by hating on them doesn’t lose you too many allies, until people care about transfolk, which isn’t likely to happen while the Right treats them like rampaging terrorists.
Elizabelle
Have a comment in moderation. Article with perhaps too many links. Thank you.
Citizen Alan
@Jeffro: IIRC, the last guy that Kyle Rittenhouse shot also had a gun but did not take the shot against him first. I have often thought about how THE ENTIRE NARRATIVE would have flipped had that guy shot and killed Rittenhouse. Every single conservative who praised and defended that little shit would have painted him as a deranged killed who was “thankfully” taken down by “a good guy with a gun.” I’d give anything if someone ever actually pointed that fact out to Rittenhouse–that he was a hero instead of a villain only because someone else hesitated to put him down.
rikyrah
Greg Sargent (@GregTSargent) posted at 10:34 AM on Thu, Sep 11, 2025:
Two dozen Dem Senators just laid out 10 tough questions for Trump and Pete Hegseth to answer about the decision to bomb that Venezuelan “drug boat” w/o any clear authorization or rationale. These questions are a good roadmap for getting to the bottom of this.
Zero Rs signed it. t.co/oLZKBB2r7j
(https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/1966163439874965833?t=Uzy52kytwuM7ESIHVqvCXA&s=03)
Suzanne
@ExPatExDem: It is terrible and I stayed the hell away from it yesterday, because I know myself and I don’t need to watch it.
I am just so sick of social conservatives and their prurience toward violence and sex. They are just the most broken people. I would have sympathy if they kept that shit to themselves, but instead they make their inner demons everyone else’s problem.
Like, just go be gay, or wear your two wetsuits and your dildo, or go to therapy already.
Shakti
@neldob:
What’s infuriating is that these frequent mass shootings and deaths are entirely preventable, yet our political system makes an active choice not to prevent them; to thwart any people or measures that might stop them; to enable them and all of this is considered to be acceptable social deaths.
We could have a better world; we’re choosing not to – and that should be mourned. We shouldn’t be numbed to all of this death.
rikyrah
NO, I think the phuck not.
christan (no i), ß (@ChristanWNBA) posted at 4:10 PM on Wed, Sep 10, 2025:
We’re at a point where minorities are just supposed to openly accept pure hatred as a “political leaning”
(x.com/ChristanWNBA/status/1965885727071453397?t=o5itl18frbDCLAAbE0SHzw&s=03)
JoyceH
@ExPatExDem: My sympathy for Kirk’s widow is similar to my sympathy for dead heroin addicts, sympathy for someone who made poor life choices and suffered the consequences. The fact that Kirk publicly described mass shootings as an acceptable price for the 2nd amendment is one element of my opinion and the fact that he also advocated for public executions and for children to witness those executions is another element. He got what he asked for.
rikyrah
Elizabeth (@alluring_nyc) posted at 4:39 PM on Wed, Sep 10, 2025:
Charlie Kirk:
“Black women do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person’s slot.” t.co/ttunsQNZJ9
(https://x.com/alluring_nyc/status/1965893013059907788?t=gkoWE-Dih53wMfZPcnu01Q&s=03)
Tazj
@ExPatExDem: I can understand that.I suppose the only people I saw saying (all political violence is wrong) were Democrats and liberal pundits yesterday and I thought it appropriate in the moment.
My own son (18) really disliked Kirk and blames him for turning so many people his age into idiots. I’m trying to remind him that it’s ok not to like people but not to rejoice (he’s not) in violence.
Ishiyama
@rikyrah: Iran? Israel? North Korea? Lots of bad actors on the international scene. If they never catch the culprit, the field of suspects is quite large.
Elizabelle
I just watched the Kirk shooting video for the first time. It did not disturb me that much, probably because of the target.
Very accurate shot. I suspect he was pretty much doomed within seconds. The blood just poured out.
When I heard of the video, I just imagined all those little schoolkids from Sandy Hook and Uvalde being hurt; many of them shot several times.
Terrible world we live in.
The Crimson Pimpernel
@Ishiyama: When George Lincoln Rockwell (mid-century leader of the American Nazi Party) was assassinated I was surprised at how horrified I was. He was no loss, unlike JFK and the civil rights workers who were assassinated before him and MLK and RFK who were assassinated later, but the trauma of assassination has a life beyond the value of the target. I, and maybe others who lived through the 1960s, still feel some residual trauma from all those assassinations. This is a frightening time. Charlie Kirk contributed to that in life, and, ironically, in death.
Elizabelle
Thinking about that shooting video, and the footage of the planes hitting the WTC towers 24 years ago.
How the news organizations decided to stop running the clips constantly, because little kids (and others) thought it was happening, again and again.
My young nephews drew pictures of the planes hitting the towers.
Suzanne
Apparently Couchfucker is going to use Air Force Two to escort Charlie Kirk’s body to Arizona.
Soldiers don’t get that.
p.a.
I hope he gets caught, but I hope he evades capture long enough that the “they’re incompetent from the head down” meme takes hold among everyone outside the reality-based community like it is within.
Also, if you’re an assassin, you wear something to fit into the crowd. Says nothing about his motivation/ideology.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Thank you.
I hope Kirk’s actual words get out. Some free speech warrior.
The MSM outlets might be out over their skis on this one, no?
MagdaInBlack
@rikyrah: Yup.
prostratedragon
David Simon:
Baud
@Suzanne:
Trump doesn’t like soldiers who get killed.
Ishiyama
Me, too. That’s why I mentioned GLR; I remember the newspaper reports from when I was in elementary school. As I told Michelle Obama in 2008, on the rope line, our generation had our hearts shot out.
Suzanne
@Baud: They are going to stir up so much hatred and violence against Democrats that the facts — if we ever even get them — won’t matter.
ExPatExDem
@JoyceH: Agree that Kirk was a dick. He laughed at and diminished political violence against those he opposed and ultimately was killed by the monster he helped create.
My greatest sympathy is for his children, as no one gets to choose who their parents are.
Elizabelle
Good MSNBC article on the “unprecedented” purge at the FBI, which took out the Pakistani-American female counterterrorism expert in charge of the Bureau’s Salt Lake City office. Now responsible for investigating the Kirk murder.
Another jackal contributed this earlier.
And this curious part:
Barbara
@OGliberal: Honestly, I think you should be asking that about transgender women — 95% of the hysteria is directed at transgender women. Men don’t care if a transgender man wants to use their restroom, play men’s sports, dress like men or just about anything else. The hysteria is about breaking the restrictive bubble around female identity and who gets to define and control it — a lot of it under the guise of “protecting” women.
Baud
@Suzanne:
They’ll never hate Dems more than Dems hate themselves.
SiubhanDuinne
There is a new report of an “incident” (of an unspecified nature) at DNC HQ in D.C. Apparently a significant police presence. Let’s hope it turns out to be a big nothing and that nobody is injured.
ETA Update: Now being called a “non-credible bomb threat.” Capitol Police are sweeping the area out of “an abundance of caution.”
MattF
@rikyrah: Same thoughts here. Unlikely that there was any ‘message’ on the bullet casing other than the implicit one of ‘a bullet is in this casing’. Not at all surprising that the weapon was found but the shooter was not. Thought out start to finish, and then executed.
prostratedragon
@The Crimson Pimpernel:
Yes, though the Rockwell assassination didn’t do much to me beyond reinforcing the sense of the times. The one like that that really got me was LHO, because I felt the truth of what happened to the President would then never be established.
Belafon
@Barbara: Two high school students back in may were suspended because they refused to be in the same locker room as a trans-male.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
ExPatExDem
I can’t remember where I saw this yesterday. It might have been from you. But with the recent SCOTUS stay of the injunction against ICE racially profiling Latinos…
We’re damn near at the point of the 21st century Court going Dred Scott again and holding that “Latinos are beings of such an inferior order that they have no rights which the white man is bound to respect”.
And they’ll probably have Clarence Thomas write it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Thanks, just updated my comment while you were writing yours.
WereBear
@rikyrah: OMG.
Elizabelle
LOL. Dana Houle just put this up on Bluesky.
RevRick
@OGliberal: One revealing take from the far right in response to this killing is that they want to declare war on blue cities. One tweet called for bombing them by our AirForce.
In other words, they are furious that a radical fundamentalist group rooted in Islam did what they long to do now.
Omnes Omnibus
@JoyceH: I would put a caveat on that because addiction is not a poor life choice. It is a medical condition.
Chief Oshkosh
deleted semi-duplicate post
kwAwk
I think she’s right. The people on the right after something like this happens want to shout us all down and make us pretend that Kirk was something akin to the kindly head of the local Lion’s Club.
He wasn’t and people are right to talk about how his chickens came home to roost. He was an extremist and very hateful. We shouldn’t have to pretend otherwise.
Yes, we should denounce political violence, but we shouldn’t have to pretend Charlie Kirk was someone who he wasn’t.
Elizabelle
I think the Republicans and their MSM toadies sanitizing Charlie Kirk’s actual views and work might come back to bite them.
All the ugly, backward, racist and misogynist things he said.
And you are flying his
corpsecasket around on Air Force 2? Really?WereBear
@debit: And she’s so good!
prostratedragon
@ExPatExDem:
It is in line with where they seem to be heading.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
They’ll probably take his corpse to a taxidermist so they can use it at campaign events.
Chief Oshkosh
@Elizabelle:
That is outstanding. And true.
WereBear
@rikyrah: Agree. Although I doubt this Administration can find a real professional.
They have fired them.
Baud
Reddit
trollhattan
Never imagined this halfwit Nazi wannabe would suck up all the oxygen in the room and yet here I am, looking for a spare tank to get me through the week.
Seldom has less, been more.
Elizabelle
@prostratedragon: Yep. Roger B. Taney Roberts.
I wonder how many people have said that to his face. I would think, quite a few by now. (Protesters who come across him.)
piratedan
and we all thought irony was dead….
here’s a dude that thought we needed moar guns, moar guns on campus, we needed to ensure the people that like himself had the opportunity/right to yell their shit, if not impose their view on the rest of us that guns were not the problem, they were the solution.
I consider this problem solved in the very specific.
Lyrebird
Obvs it’s nothing about transgender people themselves, and I think you get that.
I don’t know whether I really agree with the term “rape culture”, but I’ve always thought that bigoted men who hate on trans people are angry at the idea that anyone could dominate or assault them.
And before I say any more from my cis het perspective, let me type out loud that trans women and men are in way more danger every day than me generally speaking.
Anyhow, I know some women soldiers who could beat the crap out of almost any man, but on average, women have less upper body strength etc. Apparently there are men in the world who like thinking they can beat the crap out of anyone they consider attractive (brief break while I throw up)
I didn’t start thinking about this as a trans issue initially but instead, why the fck do male judges etc not get the danger of being female* – “oh your male boss just stroked your butt gently, where’s the harm?”
Reverse tool order
@Lapassionara: (@ #58) They mean on the wide part of the brass containing the smokeless powder, not the bullet or the necked down brass gripping the bullet. So, no effect on ballistics or otherwise.
Chief Oshkosh
@Elizabelle:
Does anyone know if there is a list of Kirk’s shithead statements? I’ve seen a couple of compilations, but they’re limited and drenched in the posting authors’ views.
Teresa
@Baud:
OMG! I had to wipe the coffee off my phone. 😂 It wouldn’t surprise me.
BethanyAnne
I love the Parkrose Permaculture channel. That’s Angela in the video.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
I’m totally with you here. I’ve been saying for years that, to steal a fundie phrase, open carry is ‘of the devil,’ and this is why.
If we see someone carrying a gun in public, there shouldn’t be any argument about what to do about it: we call the cops, and they come and arrest him for carrying a gun in public, and take the gun away.
But if open carry is legal, we’ve made the decision as a society that it’s no big deal for people to walk around in public with the ability to shoot anyone dead at a moment’s notice. And inevitably, some people will avail themselves of that opportunity. And that very possibility makes us all less safe.
They Call Me Noni
@Ishiyama: I’ve not ever heard of that particular plant and don’t recall seeing it at the grocery store so I googled it and it looks like sawtoothed mint. From the description I imagine that it would be very tasty. Next time I’m at the grocery I’ll have to pay closer attention to the offerings.
Did you put pine or any other nut in your pesto?
Ishiyama
@They Call Me Noni: macadamia nuts. Shisho is used extensively in Asian cuisine.
schrodingers_cat
@laura: OT Question: Are you still having fun with the Albrecht Durers? And any new art supply acquisitions?
I just got myself a set of 10 liquid watercolors by Ecoline. Planning to use it as paint and as ink in my fountain pens.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: An armed society is one in which no one helps one another. Inherently low-trust.
Elizabelle
@lowtechcyclist: It means open carry is taking away our right to assemble in public spaces.
Because I sure am not going to share my coffee shop, grocery store, theater, church, university campus with some yokel walking around with a gun.
I guess some places can restrict the carrying of weapons — I see signs up on municipal and federal buildings, on libraries, on drugstores. I guess the Gun Owners of America will be going after those, too.
Sure did not keep guns out of elementary schools, or Colorado high schools, as in the day sainted Charlie Kirk was called home to glory.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Wearing a jaunty MAGA scarf. Ummmm…
WaterGirl
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I can’t tell whether Ezra Klein said that, or if it’s a paraphrase by the other person you mentioned.
Do you have a link?
schrodingers_cat
Garbage Times op-ed writer, Klein’s tongue bath of Kirk is pukeworthy.
No One of Consequence
@Lapassionara:
Doubt it affects ballistics if it was on the brass, not the lead.
FWIW,
-NOoC
cain
@WaterGirl:
Just realize our violent death would mean nothing to him.
WaterGirl
@ExPatExDem: Not to mention the outright murder of people on a fishing boat, etc.
cain
@Sister Golden Bear:
How come they are always low resolution?
I mean you can use AI to fix it right ?
ExPatExDem
@WaterGirl: And the violations of Posse Comitatus
The National Guard are the new Runaway Slave Patrols.
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: Klein gave the late Charlie Kirk a tongue bath this morning.
His column is called Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way.
And, having read it quickly, the content is more “why can’t we all get along? It never ends well when we start shooting at each other.”
No surprise the FTF NY Times went with that headline, though.
I have decided FTF also means Fellating the Fascists.
Josie
I don’t post on social media because I am an old. I think, however, that anyone who does should post a statement made by Mr. Kirk with the date of the statement. Maybe if we had multiple quotes in all social media that proves his attitude, people might realize where he was coming from. Our current leaders are surely not going to expose him.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: Well the Grey Lady gave Hitler gushy coverage too in the 1930s.
Shakti
@ExPatExDem: I only feel sympathy for his minor children.
There is no likely scenario that an adult woman who went to Liberty University for a graduate degree, agreed to marry and have children of her own free will with Kirk somehow didn’t share his values. She married him after the attack on the capitol. He had a net worth of $12 million dollars; enjoyed Turning Point paying for her wedding reception and enjoyed the lifestyle from his activities. She is a very wealthy widow who genuinely mourns him.
ExPatExDem
@Elizabelle: The left needs to get out of their fetal position on this and quickly.
Charlie Kirk was no exemplar of civil discourse.
He thought Paul Pelosi being nearly beaten to death was high humor. He was also a co-conspirator of J6 who brought three busloads of goons to DC, and pled the Fifth in his testimony to the House Select Committee.
He helped create the monster that ate him.
cain
@Betty Cracker:
A deliberate attempt to cast blame on the left. To feed the rage. Once out there it will be spread by right wing influencers and it will become truth.
OGliberal
@Sister Golden Bear: Others identified the shirt and provided images of it – or variations of it – on various shopping sites. Seems very common.
I was also going to note that about mass shooters, which is why I think it’s weird that the Governor of Utah (and others) is calling it a political assassination when we don’t know the who the shooter is or his (assuming the guy in the security cam still is the shooter) motives. I’m sure politics was a factor – and maybe the only factor – but, yeah, when these folks leave manifestos or social media clues, their ideology is all over the place, to the point that you can’t even tag them with a specific ideology. This guy could be somebody who worked for Turning Point and they pissed him off somehow – workplace/work related issues are much more often the motive behind targeted, non-domestic, non-paid hit killings than political reasons.
p.a.
tRump calls Xi to see if Mao’s embalmers are still alive & available, or left notes, to take care of Kirk.
Also need info on Mao’s enclosure design…
They Call Me Noni
@Ishiyama: Macadamia, yes that does make perfect sense. So now I have a new mission! Thank you.
cain
@Elizabelle:
But Dem politicians should absolutely push back at the lionization of this man and point out the double standard when a dem couple was assassinated.
The media and Trump want to sanitize this man but also criticize Dems for not falling in line.
Shakti
Tressie McMillan Cottom:
They Call Me Noni
@Shakti: I was thinking of their two, small children yesterday. I wonder what they will think when they are older and curious and search the internet about their father and his beliefs and the details of his life and death. Warts and all..
Elizabelle
Ha ha. Remember in reading this: the FTF NY Times screens its reader comments before posting them.
And these are the most popular comments on the Ezra Klein tongue bath. I do wonder how the FTF NY Times keeps its subscriber base. Maybe there are a LOT more of them than we assumed hatereading the addled political content.
and
and
and
and
and
and wrapping up with this one
The Sulzberger-Joe Kahn Times “leadership” may not care, but you know Ezra Klein likely read a lot of those reader comments.
Charlie Kirk radicalized a whole contingent of gullible, susceptible young men. Go ahead and canonize him, FTF NY Times.
Elizabelle
Aha. NY Times reader cb in Philadelphia addresses Ezra Klein’s perfidy directly.
Elizabelle
Apologies if you find these FTF NY Times items tedious, but I want to help put up a record of how people viewed the Kirk murder at the time. And not through the lens of MSM’s attempt to whitewash the victim and his activities.
Nettoyeur
@rikyrah:mirrors my engineer (but not law enforcement trained) thoughts. If a pro op, Patel’s Keystone Cop FBI may not be up to job
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle: No, I’m happy to see them, because I refuse to click on Klein. Thank you.
Gretchen
Elie Mystal had a good take: Dear all writers: If you can’t quote what the person you’re defending actually said, maybe don’t defend what he said?
Elizabelle
@Gretchen:
Excellent point. I guess Ezra Klein sees, from David Brooks and Bret “Bedbug” Stephens, that there is no such thing as failing down at the NY Times. Not to mention Peter Baker and all the sanewashing.
Find a long passage of an extemporaneous Trump statement. I dare you!
Glidwrith
@WaterGirl: There’s a report from the Intercept that the boat the Navy blew up had turned back to the coast when they spotted aerial surveillance. They were killed anyway and there were initially survivors. Special Forces used drones multiple times to kill them.
Yeah, definitely a scale of value at work here.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia:
You know what? Providing a free, nonpaywalled gift link to the FTF NY Times Ezra Klein column on Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk was Practicing Politics the Right Way
Not for Klein’s airheaded prose. So that you can read the reader comments, and have hope.
So far, not a single one that lauds Kirk, and all point out how dangerous and destabilizing he was.
Click on the little comment icon at the top right above Ezra’s bubblegum, and sort by “Reader Picks” or just scroll through in order, newest or oldest.
We are not crazy. And we are not the minority on this issue. Of people who had heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday afternoon.
Glidwrith
@OGliberal: One point: only one person killed, therefore not a mass shooting. So, applying a mass shooter psychology to this person is a category error.
Elizabelle
Another example:
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Suzanne: did your discussion include pesto based around walnuts instead of pine nuts? So very good
Central Planning
@Betty Cracker:
This will be the ONLY time republicans/maga have agency and we do not.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Sorry, baud, but that’s bullshit.
WaterGirl
@BethanyAnne: Thanks, I adde her name up top.
WaterGirl
@ExPatExDem:
I thought that was ICE.
cwmoss
@BethanyAnne: didn’t know about her until today. If her channel name is based on her location, she’s just a couple neighborhoods north of me!
Suzanne
@HopefullyNotcassandra: It sure did! So many great ideas for pesto variations. I like to add lemon zest to mine.
Harrison Wesley
@Glidwrith: I think Trump has found the military he’s been looking for to exterminate those annoying protesters.
sab
@BethanyAnne:
@WaterGirl:
Thank you WaterGirl and debit for that clip.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Suzanne: I will have to try that
patrick II
The 1982 movie “48 Hours” begins with a prisoner Albert Ganz, brilliantly played by James Remar, escaping from a road gang, killing two guards on the way out.Ganz is a total psychopath and the escape is only the beginning of Ganz’s psychopathic run — engaging in numerous shootouts, killing more people. Ganz is fearless while exhanging gunfire, never expecting to be hit, fighting boldly and killing without conscience.
This brings rough-hewed detective Jack Cates (Nick Nolte) and unwelcome tag-along Reggie Hammond (Eddie Murphy) who might know where Ganz is hiding, on the trail of Ganz.Eventually, Cates and Hammond catch up to Ganz, but Ganz takes Eddie Murphy captive, stands behind him with a gun to his head, and tells Nolte to drop the gun or Murphy dies. But Ganz’s right shoulder is showing, and without hesitation, Nolte raises his .357 and shoots Ganz there. Because it is such a nice summary of the criminal mind, the next moment has one of my favorite lines in all of movies. Ganz yells out, amazed… “I can’t believe it… I’ve been shot!” Even after all of the shootouts he has been in, the amazement in his voice is clear — this psychopath never thought it could happen to him.That movie moment is what reminds me of Charlie Kirk’s next-life reaction today. Whichever afterlife experience he woke up to today, his first words were undoubtedly “I can’t believe it…I’ve been shot!”
BethanyAnne
@cwmoss: It is! She does some great local coverage, too.
BethanyAnne
A couple of people have asked for some of Kirk’s quotes. Here is a Buzzfeed article with several. buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes
I saw a longer version yesterday, but I haven’t been able to find it.
Ben Cisco
@WaterGirl: The Guard are the NEW Runaway Slave Patrols.
No One You Know
@prostratedragon: If it was indeed an error. Hard to imagine that all uniformed-and-armed folks are automatically rightwing fanatics.
Then again, hard to imagine that recruiting doesn’t favor that profile.
Prove MeWrong
@Karen Gail: Seriously? That man didn’t deserve to be killed. This isn’t about the right or the left but about just plain decency. It is morally wrong to kill another person Period!
WaterGirl
@Prove MeWrong:
What Karen Gail wrote, that you responded to, was this:
What she watched yesterday was not the video of Kirk being killed. What she watched was the video linked up top.
There was NOTHING in her comment to indicate the she thought Kirk deserved to be killed.
I believe, to a person, everyone who has commented here since this happened, has been clear that it’s morally wrong to kill another person. With the possible exception of Hitler.
I’m approving your comment because I believe that you honestly misunderstood what she was saying. If that turns out not to be true, that will be a very different story.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Ugh.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: I appreciated them!
WaterGirl
@Glidwrith: I appreciate the information. That makes it even worse.
Sombermoss
@Lapassionara: no, the bullet itself cannot be engraved because it is inside the casing, the casing contains the gunpowder and bullet, but is not fired, so it would not affect accuracy