We all know that people are losing their jobs, and possibly their careers for criticizing Charlie Kirk, and sometimes for merely quoting Kirk in his own words!
I want to quote parts of this article by Charlie Pierce. The actual title is shown below, but it’s important to not that it shows up as “thought crimes” in the URL itself.
Charlie Kirk’s Assassination Has Taken Us Down a Dark, Orwellian Path (paywalled)
by Charles Pierce
What the hell is going on in this country? If the authoritarian Right wants to make a cult of martyrdom out of an unforgivable act of public murder, it should go ahead and do so. But there is absolutely no reason for them to drag the rest of us into their rituals. Flags at half-staff and threats against local officials who decline to do so? Tributes at major league ballparks? A memorial service at the Kennedy Center? Professors fired over their reactions to the event on social media, most of which paled against the things that Kirk said, as a matter of course, that made him rich and influential.
From NBC News:
Even worse, the members of the Cabinet have signed onto the scouring of social-media posts in search of (once) protected speech that they deem disrespectful. Pete Hegseth is leading the way at the DoD. He’s already got one head on his wall.
From USA Today:
Nice to see who’s advising the defense department these days on personnel matters. Unsurprisingly, Secretary of State Marco Rubio has joined the parade, turning the visa process upside down and into even more of a mess than it was before.
Returning to the situation with Karen Attiah, the game was given away with that line about how Attiah’s posts “endangered” her colleagues. That’s the real thing here, isn’t it? To threaten reprisals against thought crimes and then follow through by any means, fair or foul. I’ve lived through how conservatives used the suicide of Vince Foster as a truncheon on the Clinton administration, and before that they used the suicide of a woman named Susan Coleman for the same purpose. That’s how the infamous “Clinton Body Count” was born. Its reach extended all the way to the 2016 murder of DNC staffer Seth Rich, whose corpse was used as a club on Hillary Clinton. So, frankly, coerced conservative demands for respect for the dead ring a little false to me.
I was about to write “scary times”, but it’s worse than that.
Dangerous times. And they are not just dangerous, they are disingenuous. Hell, they are lying liars who lie.
Open thread.
Governor Pritzker Says What Has To Be Said
WaterGirl
OT, but the sidebar pic is in honor of Robert Redford. He was a legend. Butch Cassidy, Electric Horseman, somehow he is connected in my mind to horses.
Barbara
My husband had never heard of Charlie Kirk (probably a lot of people haven’t!). He was trying to understand the over the top reaction so he has been going through a variety of sources and came across a clip in which Charlie Kirk said that he didn’t have empathy for anyone. He asked me why that wasn’t the end of the story.
So I have been avoiding the story. I didn’t listen to Kirk in his life and I am not sure why I should listen to so much about him after his death. And no, I am not celebrating his death. I have enough humanity left to know that it’s a tragedy when two small children lose their dad even if I don’t agree with him on anything.
Old School
I think someone in the comments last night linked to a post that said:
Scout211
web archive version Charlie Kirk’s Assassination Has Taken Us Down a Dark, Orwellian Path
Not paywalled.
Trollhattan
@Old School:
Is it bad that I’m over-ready?
Raoul Paste
Kirk: Gays should be stoned to death.
Jesus: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
So much for being a Christian hero
Trollhattan
@Raoul Paste:
Zombie Kirk, probably: “I’m telling you, Jesus has a terrible arm.”
Bulgakov
Meanwhile, the US Navy adds to Trump’s bloody body count, conducting extrajudicial murders of people who made the mistake of being in a boat.
And Republicans, and the Supreme Court, and the military follow the madman’s wishes and Democratic leadership (Schumer/Jefferies) salivate about running INFLATION ads for the 2026 elections.
Chief Oshkosh
I know you get tired of hearing this (or something similar) from me, but the above is all that you need to keep saying, over and over everywhere you have a social media presence. We can’t control what Hair Fervor and his rotting crew does, we can’t control what the MSM does, but we can use other media, which is arguably driving conversations more that anyone or anything else these days. This has been the ONE thing that is sticking to Trump, and the internecine fights and murder add to the damage.
Mai Naem mobile
I think the RW is overdoing it on ck. Americans have short attention spans and within a couple of weeks they’re not want to hear any more about their saint.
JML
Yes, in Trumpistan using someone’s own words is now “Hate Speech”. these evil swine of course keep presuming that only people they don’t like will get swept up and punished if they manage to keep this wave going.
And the biggest reason they keep stoking this is to get the focus off Epstein, the economy, the foreign affairs crimes, etc.
We know the playbook, and no one will be suckered by it faster than the media bobos who live their lives alternating being fear of a lawsuit and hopes of a book deal and/or time slot.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Trivia.
Redford was one of those under serious consideration by the producers to play the lead in The Graduate.
Soprano2
I was saying just yesterday to someone that we’re living in “1984” now, and they thought I meant the year!
Sister Golden Bear
@NotMax: The during the (brief) discussion with Redford, the director of The Graduate told Redford that he wasn’t capable of playing a loser. Redford disagreed, so the director asked if he’d ever struck out with a woman and Redford’s response was essentially that he didn’t understand the question.
lollipopguild
Trump/BONDI= Free speech for us and our side, but everything YOU say is hate speech.
counterfactual
How is all of this “playing in Peoria”? The one MAGA that I have to deal with daily hasn’t mentioned CK once since the shooting. Is this all excessively online fury?
Jackie
Related to the article WaterGirl posted is this:
Republicans are fighting amongst themselves regarding free speech vs not free to speak speech. This is new.
Orwell’s science fiction novel 1984 is real life in 2025. (Earlier actually, if counting states that started banning – if not virtually burning – books from schools and libraries)
Leto
Avalune sent this to me and it’s probably the best response/explanation to all of this: Millions of Gen Z’ers Don’t “Feel Bad” About Charlie Kirk’s Murder. Here’s Why.
WeimarGerman
Not 1984, more like 1910.
Was there a lynching at Delta State?
Trey Reed
Leto
@WeimarGerman: well the police did their 10 min investigation, found nothing, so all good there!
Ishiyama
1984? More like 1848:
Everything old is new again. Same system, same oppressors.
Telsiree
It shouldn’t be forgotten that one of the primary reasons the Right is doing this huge over-the-top reaction is that they’re desperately trying to turn their Frankenstein’s Monster back towards the appropriate targets, liberals and the left and minorities. White men getting popped, especially white men who are on a first name basis with multiple oligarchs, including the President, underscores for many of them how vulnerable they really are and they do not like that feeling. Ungoliant needs to be fed or she’ll consume herself.
Harrison Wesley
I don’t know what country AG Bondi lives in. Some European countries have hate speech laws, but USA doesn’t.
Kelly
@WaterGirl: No horses in it but “All is Lost” is amazing. Only 77 year old Redford, no dialog, as he deals with his sinking sailboat in the middle of the ocean.
WeimarGerman
@Leto: another chance in Vicksburg
mississippifreepress.org/homeless-man-found-hanging-from-tree-in-vicksburg-raising-fears-after-earli…
Bupalos
@Raoul Paste: Kirk did not say gays should be stoned to death and I wish this particularly embarrassing bit of online brain-rot would disappear please thanks.
Leto
@Kelly: I watched that and man… so good. Reminds me again why I joined the Air Force and wanted nothing to do with the Navy and open water.
iKropoclast
Sounds like the man has a legitimate moral objection. If they handled it like pharmacies and Plan B, any individual can refuse to serve you, but there must be someone available willing to provide the service.
But I guess what’s good for the GOP goose is hatred for the gander.
jonas
The sad truth is that trying to get Americans to give a shit about bad stuff we’re doing to brown people in some other part of the world is simply pissing into the wind. Getting them wound up about how much a pound of ground chuck, or their kids’ Halloween costumes, costs this year may actually strike a chord, though.
iKropoclast
No, he just wondered out loud whether they ought to be.
Jackie
@Jackie: And then this:
H.E.Wolf
We can stare into the roiling, hate-filled cloud of “breaking news” events… or we can turn our attention to finding one small, concrete positive action we can do.
Speaking of which: Huge thanks to the jackal(s) who just added small amounts to the funds being raised for Kimberly Pope Adams and Virgil Thornton, two Democrats running to flip seats in VA’s state House of Delegates.
Small amounts, literal and metaphorical, will get us where we need to go.
Sure Lurkalot
Read the whole thing!
bsky.app/profile/mcsweeneys.net/post/3lyxxca4w5x2m
Socolofi
@Leto: That article is really good, thanks for sharing.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The problem for them is the only “liberals” they know are less extreme conservatives. “Always to the Right” as the song in 1776 goes.
Also, this is 1934 – a lot of resemblance to Stalin’s purges were the communist were constantly being targeted.
Matt McIrvin
@Harrison Wesley:
And the right should feel thankful that it doesn’t, or many of them would have long since been in jail or under some kind of investigation.
I’ve talked to Europeans who are boggled that the First Amendment means we don’t have anything like Germany’s laws against Nazi expression. And maybe we’re paying the price for that now. But I’ve always believed that if we did have such laws, conservatives would find a way to turn them against liberals somehow sooner or later (since “NO U” is their standard response, sometimes as a preemptive projection, to any kind of assertions of bigotry), and I think recent events are evidence of that.
Leto
@iKropoclast:
well they fired the person who refused to print it. Conservatives spent decades waging the war on being able to refuse service to people for any reason, now they want to wage war on business for doing that. Coherent philosophy there.
NotMax
@iKropoclast
“Except when it comes to selling wedding cakes.”
hitchhiker
@Bupalos:
Nah. There’s nothing embarrassing about it, because it’s the sort of thing Kirk invited when he assumed the role of fervent defender of the Bible.
In the interview where this stoning business came up, he was correcting a woman who’s known as Miss Rachel. Among other things, he did say this:
I’m happy to comply. Let’s tell the truth, not just about Kirk, but about the people he was delighted to help put in power. We all know that he wanted to see what was in the Epstein files. We can honor him, if we must, by getting that done.
Josie
@H.E.Wolf:
Thanks for reminding us of concrete ways we can have an effect. Lots of small actions can add up.
Geminid
I already posted this in the morning thread, but I think it’s worth posting again. It’s an excerpt from a sermon by the pastor of Elfred Street Baptist Church in Alexandria, Virginia:
I assume the “enemy” Rev. Wesley spoke of is Satan.
I found this posted by Ankara-based Clash Report. They follow US politics fairly closely.
Jackie
@Leto:
Funny how it’s different when it’s NOT about wedding cakes for gays, marriage licenses for gays, morning after BC…
WaterGirl
@NotMax: That could have worked! Both actors had that boyish thing going on.
iKropoclast
It’s nice on coherent once you eliminate all the extraneous details and realize their mindset is “I, and only I, get what I want, always.”
WaterGirl
@Chief Oshkosh:
I wonder how many BJ commenters – adding that as a comment in some thread once a day – it would take before that would get some purchase in Google searches.
@Sister Golden Bear: Great story!
Bupalos
@iKropoclast: He didn’t do that either. He made a typical type of rhetorical debating-tactic point trying to show that someone’s argument for something they agreed with implied something they didn’t agree with or would think monstrous.
This is embarrassing dishonesty and we should at least have an intuitive feel for when the dumb shit we see and regurgitate online is too much of a caricature for normies to take us seriously.
raven
I moved from C-U to Athens in 84!
tam1MI
Inflation seems to be the only thing getting through to Joe Average Voter.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Wait, what about fucking wedding cakes for gay people? I didn’t think bigots had to bake those anymore.
Leto
More conservative on conservative action out in California. And yes, I know how I phrased that.
Jackie
Prosecutors seek the death penalty for Robinson.
Socolofi
So at the first Gen Zen in the article @Leto forwarded, she spotted quickly than when Charlie said it was acceptable for there to be gun deaths in exchange for the 2nd Amendment, he meant that it’s acceptable for “you people” to get killed. Not his people, and certainly not himself.
The current full court press for Charlie is three-fold…
All of MAGA knows what Charlie Kirk says, and they approve. But we can’t just yell n*, n*, n* anymore, and most of non-MAGA would find what he said pretty objectionable. So both the whitewashing by not saying anything mean, and beating up on anyone who would. Who the shooter is and what the shooter wanted to accomplish? Who cares.
That said, Epstein files… oh and Luigi McDreamy is back in the news.
H.E.Wolf
That is very true. I’m seeing one now, in my volunteer job.
I’m helping get ready for GOTV in our state – it’s startling to realize that the November elections are 6 weeks from today – and one of the tasks is to make sure that voter call lists are up to date.
The most inspiring thing about this otherwise tedious project is that every single record has the name of at least 1 previous volunteer associated with it.
I’m seeing so many names! I don’t know who any of these folks are, but they set aside a couple of hours, sometime in the past year(s), to support other voters.
It reminds me that I’m not doing this all alone. There are so many helpers out there. We may never meet… but we share a willingness to pitch in.
Belafon
@Bupalos: Naaah, I’m not going to give a man who was fond of using the Bible to justify his bigotry any out. We know how those who want to run with that one small piece of the Old Testament feel, and stoning was just the available method of torture at the time. We’re way more advanced than that now.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: See my comment #42 :-)
Kelly
@Leto: As a teen I loved books by single handed sailors. As I grew up and realized the vastness of the ocean I removed a single handed ocean crossing from my bucket list. I like my boats on rivers.
George
What the hell is going on, asks Pierce?
One-third of the electorate in my beloved country is in a death cult and being manipulated by high-level grifters who will do and say whatever they can to stay in power and focus wealth in their pockets. The media are unwilling and/or unable to address the fact that the death cult is fabricating crises to prevent the Epstein files from being released. The hateful bigotry that Kirk spouted is supported as free speech by the death cult and the media, but anyone who simply quotes what Kirk spouted is guilty of hate speech and should be cancelled.
And the ignorant normies in the electorate who stand to lose everything as the death cult drags my beloved country down into a death spiral are intellectually unable to understand that the strange tightness they feel in their chest is not because they overdid it at the local Olive Garden last night, but because the Python of Consequences is simply finding another delicious meal among people who were too dumb, or selfish, or whatever to understand basic politics and economics.
Belafon
@Bupalos: He Cavuto marked it. “I’m just asking.”
Jackie
@Leto: What are Robert Weldon and GDL? Gang names?
ExPatExDem
I don’t celebrate his death, but no one can make me celebrate his life.
iKropoclast
@Bupalos: Bring out the fine-tooth comb, non-Republicans are speaking…
Ocotillo
@WeimarGerman: Inspired by Brian Kilmead?
iKropoclast
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
It must be.
Deputinize America
I’ll give you guys a handy sanitizing bit to post in our new environment where monsters have to be lionized:
Belafon
@tam1MI: Remember the flack Harris got for talking about how Trump wanted to end our democracy.
Belafon
Israeli settlers are trying to prove the country is the 51st state. They’re talking about erecting a Kirk statue.
zhena gogolia
@Deputinize America: Stalin wrote poetry too.
zhena gogolia
@Belafon: Yeah, the goalposts keep moving all around the field.
Leto
@Jackie: GDL = Goyim Defense League, an American neo-Nazi and white supremacist hate group founded around 2018. They’re mocking the Anti-Defamation League’s name; virulently antisemitic, holocaust deniers, racist, etc… but it’s continuing the narrative of an internal war going on. I’m not sure who the guy is but sounds like he’s connected to the group.
iKropoclast
@Belafon: Well, when the dominant political faction of your patron nation is gullible and craves flattery and you know it…
👏👏
ExPatExDem
@Deputinize America: Reminds of the movie Rat Race where the Jewish family takes a detour to the “Barbie Museum” for their daughter and it was a museum dedicated to Klaus Barbie.
The skinhead tour guide “preferred to remember him” as “A devoted husband and father, wine connoisseur, and three-time ballroom dancing champion”.
Belafon
@zhena gogolia: Part of the problem is that white people understand democracy like they understand unions and vaccines: They believe the benefits of both have always been here and don’t know why they’re worth the effort.
Shakti
A mormon tiktok influencer who livestreamed himself with a selfie at Charlie Kirk’s shooting, as people were screaming and fleeing, pitched his account, and then stole bloody merch to sell on Ebay; contaminating an active crime scene. Later he posted a video that was basically, “My bad.” It took days for him to private his account. I’m sorry he seems representative of these fans and I wonder where the smoke is for people like that.
Trump skipped the candlelight vigil to go play golf after saying he’s going to bury this guy in a state funeral like a martyr and order(ed) the flag at half mast. Come the fuck on.
Bondi threatens to bring down the full force of the law on *checks* an Office Depot employee for refusing to make copies for some vigil for Charlie Kirk. Which is very important unlike your doctor’s prescribed medication; or your marriage license, or public accommodation laws.
Karen Attiah is fired for… stating facts? People aren’t allowed to actually quote the plain words out of this man’s mouth b/c it’s hateful now?
I really don’t like the conclusions I’m being forced to draw.
WaterGirl
@Sure Lurkalot: That’s really good!
iKropoclast
America’s major institutions to non-Republicans: drop dead.
WaterGirl
@Leto: God, I hope that article is correct about that!
Empathy for thee but not for me.
edit: Empathy for thee but not for us.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
I’m trying to see daylight between (a) a RW Christianist calling it “God’s perfect law” that gays should be stoned to death, and (b) his saying gays should be stoned to death.
If there’s any daylight there, it’s such a hairsplitting difference that it’s absurd to call it out.
gene108
I feel like this crackdown on free speech is a long planned retribution for all the racist and sexist stuff that got people fired or appearances cancelled over the last 10 years from speakers on college campuses, to comedians, to the contractor in a work van getting recorded saying n-word.
The big difference is Obama and Biden stayed out of demanding anything of private entities.
iKropoclast
@gene108: Right those were all private decisions. The whole cancel culture thing was always bogus. You can’t choose to disassociate from us or even criticize what we’re saying, but we’ll continue to bring the power of the state down on our political enemies.
Everything is one way with these people.
Peale
@gene108: They did not, in fact, throw people in jail for not making wedding cakes.
Sister Golden Bear
@NotMax: Or selling birth control.
iKropoclast
@Peale: Threatening a business license is kind of like throwing someone in jail…
WaterGirl
@Geminid:
iKropoclast
@WaterGirl: Aww, lovely speech. I tried to share, but it just puts me into Instagram. I am not a member.
Old Man Shadow
All I can tell you is to hold on to your principles, your beliefs and your faith if you have one. Be true to them. Hug your loved ones every day. Pray, wish, or cast a spell for the madness to break and sanity to return, then help where you can and who you can. Have one another’s backs. Be kind.
It’s not going to be fun. And a lot of us will probably die younger than we should have. Maybe me. Maybe you. But we’ll go without bowing the knee.
No night is forever. Hope for the dawn even in the darkest of hours.
iKropoclast
@Old Man Shadow: Also lovely.
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: I know I’m replying to my own comment, but WOW.
WaterGirl
@iKropoclast: I am not a member either, but it let me copy the embed code and embed it here.
WaterGirl
@Old Man Shadow: Thank you for that.
iKropoclast
@WaterGirl: Maybe because I’m starting from a different circumstance? Maybe I’ll try to find independently. Thank you for sharing, nonetheless.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Right. Weren’t we scolded for not talking about the economy enough last year?
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Dancing on the head of a pin.
WaterGirl
@Shakti: If repeating his words is somehow considered hate speech, doesn’t that make his words hate speech?
kindness
I’m thankful the gun humping Malitias out there haven’t started shooting us in the streets….yet.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Kirk hated God.
iKropoclast
@Baud: Too much, not enough; depends on your druthers.
It’s not the words themselves. In Rightwinglandia, accountability is hate speech.
Aziz, light!
Stoning to death offenses in the Bible:
Idolatry. Worshipping any gods other than Yahweh.
Blasphemy. Using God’s name in a curse.
Divination. Consulting mediums or necromancers.
Kidnapping.
Adultery.
Being a wayward and rebellious son.
Abominations to the Lord:
A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.
Ezekiel (16:49-50): “Pride, excess of food, prosperous ease, without care for the poor and the needy.”
Unjust weights and measures.
And my personal favorite, tattoos.
Deputinize America
@ExPatExDem:
That movie was underappreciated.
H.E.Wolf
@H.E.Wolf: Thanks also to the additional donors who added to the totals for Kimberly and Virgil. You’re seen and appreciated!
Exactly 6 weeks to go. Think how good it will feel when these 2 seats flip, with our help.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Great minds.
Belafon
@Aziz, light!: Yep, I love crosses and Bible verse tattoos.
Baud
@Aziz, light!:
Explains American aversion to metric.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Chief Oshkosh: the 16 year old who shot up the high school in Colorado on the same day of Kirk’s murder was assuredly a naziferatu. He tried to murder every person in that school. He was definitely influenced by on-line evil chambers that still exist right now.
What is the FBI doing about that? Chasing landscapers who committed no crime through our streets and breaking car windows to drag law abiding people out of their cars. That is not helping. I wager that is precisely the point.
Although I doubt Mr. Kirk would approve, I have empathy for his plight. We all die as Joni Ernst so crassly said, but most of us get a chance to atone and repent first before we face whatever comes next. Mr. Kirk never got that chance. With that loss I can empathize.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@JML: that card this president sent Epstein shocks the conscience right down to the marrow. The three! books celebrating Epstein’s pedophilia reveal way too many people knew about on-going child predation and thought it was funny. They thought it was funny.
This horror is going nowhere. It is in our laps now.
Belafon
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Which really is the big reason they’re screaming “Kirk” at the top of their lungs.
Belafon
@Deputinize America: “Even the Devil can quote scripture if it suits his purpose.”
iKropoclast
…which it increasingly does.
NeenerNeener
So, how real are all those purported messages, with no time stamps, to a trans room mate? The last I read, the kid supposedly lived at home and wasn’t dating anyone. Now the MSM is pushing a trans girlfriend and the kid has become a flaming liberal. I’m more inclined to believe he’s an ammosexual who wanted street cred for taking out somebody famous who unfortunately happened to be another right winger. You know, hoof beats, horses instead of trans zebras, etc.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@NeenerNeener: Since the guy is alive, he’ll stand trial which will be a good chance to get some evidence. It’ll just take a while
Belafon
@Dorothy A. Winsor: And I think the informant has plenty of reasons to hide for now.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@WeimarGerman: another man was hanged near Vicksburg and found on the same day.
yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/two-men-found-hanging-trees-141557508.html
The police tell us that Mississippi black men have a penchant for hanging themselves in public places by labeling these things suicide. The MS police have not said anything about the cause of death of the hanged man found near Vicksburg. He was homeless. I know next to nothing about Mississippi.
What did Brian Kilmeade say we should do to homeless people? Yet, Matthew Dodd, the guy who refused to run the campaign against Barack Obama, is the person who got fired.
Geminid
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He might not talk, though. He hasn’t so far. Most people want to tell their story, but he may prove an exception.
Citizen Alan
@lollipopguild: My favorite formulation:
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Harrison Wesley: Any such law is prohibited here by our First Amendment
Nonetheless, Mr. Trump and company are daily proclaiming “we don’t need no stinking” law. So far, our Supreme seems keen to tear down our Constitution and let the churn drown us all.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@WeimarGerman: My apologies. I repeated this below.
Trollhattan
@Jackie:
Wow, when Nancy Mace shouts “bring back the death penalty” she really gets results.
prostratedragon
@Sister Golden Bear: Many of Redfod’s characters, especially when he was younger and almost impossibly dazzing, either are hoping no one notices the big flaw, or themselves stumbling into them. He might could have pulled it off, though one can see why Nichols wanted to be more straightforward (notice Elaine’s society fiance looked a lot like Redford). And that new guy did quite a good job.
Shalimar
Just watched a documentary about Charles Ponzi. At one point a newspaper printed an article that explaining in detail how the scam he was pulling worked. It got people talking about his business and investments skyrocketed that week. People in general are so dumb. It’s kind of shocking we maintained a democracy this long.
Shalimar
@Jackie: You can’t plea bargain if you don’t start out high.
Trollhattan
@prostratedragon:
Hoffman’s many neuroses are what make Benjamin’s character work. Plus, getting Elaine to fall for him needed to be a big stretch. For Redford?
For laffs, picture Redford playing Ratso Rizzo.
Citizen Alan
Once more for the people in the back: Conservatives do not care about any loss of human life unless that loss of life can be used politically against liberals.
NotMax
@trollhattan
At some point Redford pooh-poohed his possibly being in the role, with “Even when I was a virgin I didn’t look like one.”
Trollhattan
Evidently, Kash went to Capitol Hill today, prior to getting the ol’ boot. Went well, I understand.
The convo with Cory Booker went well, too.
bbc.com/news/videos/cx2xed8yv00o
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Bupalos: Moreover, the biblical reference Mr. Kirk made when he claimed God called for stoning homosexuals was wrong.
main-stream.org/clearing-up-the-misinterpretation-of-leviticus-a-favorite-biblical-clobber-passage-o…
The Bible’s passage is referencing pedophilia. It is saying you should be killed if you force a boy or another man below you in the hierarchy to have sex. This was legal in many cultures when the Bible was written. Note the passage is fine with raping women or girls; so, Epstein and Maxwell would certainly like this biblical passage.
Suffice it to say, the passage in Leviticus Mr. Kirk cited to suggest God wants gay people stoned does not mean what Mr. Kirk wanted it to mean. That passage truly has nothing to do with gay people at all.
Shakti
@WaterGirl:
More to the point, don’t these types of people love that speech? So why is it objectionable to repeat his words from his prolific corpus of podcasts, speeches, townhall articles, public statements?
I am looking for a Charlie Kirk labeler or the like on Bluesky. So I and other people can remember which so called liberals and allies and “good people” decided to show their asses over Charlie Kirk.
Jamie Lee Curtis? The WaPo? Newsom?
All of these people crying about this “man of faith”. Listen, my late grandmothers and great aunt, from whom I learned religion, never made it their legacy to spew hate from one side of their mouths while promoting religion and quoting scripture from the other.
We’re supposed to stop at “man of faith” and not note what is it in practice and word.
iKropoclast
@Trollhattan: Confronted with documented facts, Patel’s responses range from the willfully obtuse to “uh, no, you.”
The United States, 2025.
WaterGirl
@Trollhattan:
From the Dept of Understating Understatements!
Wow. What an entitled prick Patel is. I have never seen the equivalent of “fuck you democrats, I will not show the slightest respect for your office” in a hearing like this before.
iKropoclast
I strongly suspect your characterization is more accurate than the hagiographers and the skeptic skeptics. But does anyone know of anywhere that I can find an excerpt with good context without having to listen to the whole damned thing?
Jackie
@Leto: Ahhh, thanks! It sounded like two different gangs? But a gang called Robert Weldon seemed weird? But gang names aren’t in my wheelhouse.
RevRick
@Bupalos: Stochastic terrorism. Peddle hateful lies about gays, women, black people, immigrants, and one of your million followers will hear this message as a command to do something violent against said people. But Kirk had plausible deniability. “I didn’t tell him, to kill that person.”
Eventually the torrent of hateful speech will lead to murderous violence.
Barbara
@Shakti:
Because there are many people who have no idea who Charlie Kirk was or what he stood for and they know that many people will be repulsed when they read his actual words — so they want those people to get their introduction through a highly filtered and distorted record. Given how ubiquitous he was it seems unlikely that effort will succeed — people like my husband had no problem finding the second amendment carnage and zero empathy statements. Maybe just repost and link widely without comment.
WaterGirl
@RevRick: And it has.
NeenerNeener
@RevRick: “Can no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?”
Not enough people know about how that all worked out for Henry II and Thomas Becket.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@iKropoclast:
snopes.com/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gay-people-stoned/
Unfortunately, snopes suffers from complete ignorance of known biblical translation errors that can cause violence.
Mr. Kirk also falsely said “stoning gays” was God’s perfect law on Mr. Prosobiec’s, of pizzagate falsity fame, podcast. Again, Mr. Kirk did not call for anyone to pick up that stone. He just proclaimed (wrongly) that God called you to find and throw those stones.
sab
@NeenerNeener: Worked out worst for Beckett, but badly for Henry II. But Henry II was relatively young and extremely competent. Trump is neither.
ETA Jeopardy had a Henry II Beckett final question last week that I thought was ridiculously obvious and nobody got it. What are they teaching the kids these days? We had two movies, one with Richard Burton and Peter O’Toole? And a play we had to read in English class.
Harrison Wesley
@Dorothy A. Winsor: What makes you think he’ll live to stand trial?
WaterGirl
@NeenerNeener: Surely everyone knows?
WaterGirl
@Harrison Wesley: My exact thought, too.
sab
@Harrison Wesley: He is charged for a state crime not federal, and his dad is a Utah sheriff. I totally disagree with almost everything they believe in, but I like Mormons generically and I think they are mostly honest,decent, religious people. This murder must have shocked them. I, unlike them, was shocked but glad Kirk was dead.
sab
@Harrison Wesley: Utah. Mormons. They are severly right wing, but they are not political nutcases. They are religious nutcases and murder is a sin. His dad who turned him in must be having his heart torn out.
NeenerNeener
It being Utah is why I find it so hard to believe that the kid had a trans girlfriend. Is there medical care for people transitioning in Utah? If you transitioned, knowing how women are treated in Utah would you stay there either during or after the transition?
Mike in Pasadena
@Scout211: Thanks for the link to the complete article. Only a paragraph or two wre omitted in the front page quote, but I still appreciate your effort.
Charles Pierce is a treasure.
M31
I feel bad for Jezebel.com who published an article (which they pulled) about 2 days before Kirk’s murder entitled “We paid some Etsy witches to curse Charlie Kirk”
Jackie
Epstein is baaaakkk.
I watched some of the two senate committees where Patel was being interrogated. LOTS and LOTS of shouting and outright screaming at each other and over each other. Patel was on the defense with both his botches and blunders in Utah re hunting down Kirk’s killer and slow-walking REAL INFO re the Epstein files.
Patel was as defensive and rude as RFK jr was… last week? Week before?
Geminid
@Jackie: Kash Patel’s job is shaky, but he probably helped himself by his insolent exchange with Senator Schiff. Trump has a particular hatred for Adam Schiff and Patel knows that.
Matt McIrvin
@NeenerNeener: People can be trans and not seeking or not able to get access to medical transition. Undoubtedly the majority throughout history.
Dman
removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-ezra-klein-tanehisi-…
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: RIP Harold Beldon
prostratedragon
@mrmoshpotato: One of my favorite parts of his. Great one-act episode throughout.
NeenerNeener
@Matt McIrvin: It just seems too convenient tho. They’re looking for an excuse to demonize liberals, LGBT and trans people, and look, the killer is a Mormon dating a trans person!
Mike in Pasadena
@Bupalos: You are right, insofar as one can prove a negative, I guess. According to Kirk’s bio on Wikipedia, he claimed gays “are not happy just having gay marriage” and “want to corrupt your children.” He also claimed being gay is an “error” and compared gay pride to “encouraging addicts.” None of that sounds like someone supporting gay rights. YMMV I suppose. Asserting that gays want to corrupt your children is right out of anti-gay propaganda that has been fed to the world since forever.
Pappenheimer
@Baud: no, he just asked why God needed a starship
Kayla Rudbek
@Sister Golden Bear: not yet (if I wanted to make serious money, I would go into the business of making mifepristone)
Paul in KY
@Barbara: Because the GQP thinks they can make alot of political hay from his murder. Like Batshit McChimpy & Darth Snarly pivoting to take out Saddam when (/11 happened.
Paul in KY
@Telsiree: Good Tolkien reference!
Paul in KY
@NeenerNeener: Worked out worse for Archbishop Becket. Henry’s problems were with his kids.
Paul in KY
@sab: Thomas was a pretty popular name among the gentry/aristocracy back in those days. Maybe they get him mixed up with Thomas Cromwell or Thomas More?