The thing I don’t understand about this whole bailout is that they want to buy all the debt, but I was under the impression that what was stressing the markets is that they did not know where the bad debt is, as it has all been bundled and re-bundled and so forth. If they know where the bad debt is in order to bail it out, how come they do not know where the bad debt is to let the appropriate institutions fail? What am I missing?
Also, I heard someone on CNN claim that the idea was to buy the bad debt and hopefully sell it later for a profit to taxpayers. I laughed out loud when I heard that one. If anyone thinks the taxpayers are going to make a profit on this deal, they should immediately be required to surrender their car keys and any sharp objects to the appropriate authorities, because they are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
I just can not get over how brazen this money grab is, and that no one, and I mean no one, is going to pay a price.
El Cid
I need for you all to help my small business but I have a “rescue plan”.
I have lost a lot of money in bad dealings and bad business practices but I would really like it if you all would give me a million dollars and then go the f*** away and never ask me any questions about it.
But I do promise to send you an update memo once a year.
KTHXBAI
SGEW
I assume you mean besides us (the American taxpayers).
Walker
It is worse than that. Not only will we probably buy stuff at a loss, much of this stuff is probably worthless. As in 0 dollars.
Remember that these are not loans, but parts of loans. They are arranged in tiers (or tranches). The tier determines who gets paid first. First tier gets paid before second before third. If a bank forecloses a house and sells it at a loss, not all of the tiers get paid. The money runs out before it reaches the lowest tier.
As houses are down 30% from peak in many of the hottest areas, much of these lower tiers will never seen any money. They are essentially worthless. And as Calculated Risk notes, a Dutch Auction (which is what Paulson wants) will ensure that these are exactly the securities that your tax money is used to buy.
Stuck in the Fun House
I think they’re just dazzled silly at how many of the finest quality Golden Parachutes 700 Bil will buy. And of course, the government will simplify the highly complex investment banking industry to the point where only a form or two will be required to get things rolling. The more I think about this, the more I suspect there is more information about this “crisis” than we’re being told right now. Likely to be a depth to the corruption much deeper and more destructive than can be currently imagined. It’s either that or the Bush administration has gone completely insane, as has Bernanke.
SnarkyShark
Why are you surprised at how brazen it is? Everything Bushco has done has been brazen and out in the open. That’s half the the thrill and enjoyment of the power they wield.
I’m going to rape your wife and take your shit and enslave your children and there’s nothing you can do about it.
That’s been the modus operendus of power mad petty dictators for all of time.
Just cause you can vote for your favorite American Idol doesn’t mean we are much evolved since Genghis did his things on the steppes.
Maybe less so in certain areas. We certainly have gotten stupider about the supposed benevolence of those who lust for power.
I do think we have lost the right to question anything about the German population circa 1934. It seems we like our strongmen too.
El Cid
Do we at least get a free paring knife with our handover of 3/4 of a trillion to the Treasury Secretary / former Goldman-Sachs CEO to do with what he wants no questions no takebacks?
Or maybe an upgrade to a large from a regular sized bag of fries?
Brian J
You know, I just sent Dean Baker an e-mail about this, but I figured, while this thread is still young, I’d post it here so we could discuss amongst ourselves. Early last week, Kevin Drum cited an old Dean Baker policy piece where he suggested a transaction tax for investments. The basic thrust of the idea is here.
Baker says it’s so small and technology has made transactions so easy that most people wouldn’t notice the tax. It would also raise around $150 billion a year, which is a sizable chunk of money to do things like pay for universal health care or pay down the deficit, or something like that.
I’m waiting for him to correct me on this if I’m wrong, but this seems like a pretty great idea, since it’s small enough to not cause a lot of distortion in the economy and significant enough to raise a lot of money. But, like I said to him, if we are going to bail out these financial institutions, perhaps the tax is a good idea because it would essentially be the players on Wall Street paying for their own rescue effort.
LehmanBearIG
Hey, AIG is paying LIBOR + 7.5% on however much of the $85 billion they use. Awesome for the taxpayer! (Assuming they can pay us back….)
As far as I can figure on the toxic subprime sludge we are all about to be proud owners of, consider this: the main stumbling block from renegotiating the terms of crappy option ARMs and their foreclosure-inducing resets (many coming due next year!) was the investors. That is, banks, pension funds, foreign governments, etc.; they, understandably, were loathe to take the loss on their AAA rated trash. Modifying a large number of loans in any given security requires approval of most of the investors of the security. Good luck with that.
Now, the American taxpayer, soon to be a giant investor of mortgage backed securities, now has more latitude than the previous owners to renegotiate the terms of these mortgages.
Now the question becomes are we buying AAA rated used diaper material at mark-to-market prices or mark-to-model prices — are we paying a discount or a premium?
dd
See
nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/why-you-should-hate-treasury-bailout.html
for some scary details.
liberal
You’re missing nothing.
This is why some intelligent folks have proposed that the government inject equity, not take on bad debt. Not that injecting equity is a cakewalk, but it’s not as difficult to navigate as this debt idea is.
SnarkyShark
And just to make sure you understand there is nothing you can do about it I give you……..
The Democratic Party starring Neville Pelosi and Harry ‘Quisling’ Reid.
liberal
Brian J wrote,
Damn straight! That thought occurred to me, too. Make the pigs pay for the mess they made.
Dennis - SGMM
To the forty-seven-million Americans without health insurance through no fault of their own we, the Republican party, say that the marketplace must be allowed to find solutions for you. To the hundreds of investment bankers about to go broke due to their own greed and incompetence we say, “How much do you want and are large bills okay?”
vishnu schizt
John, John, John….. Oh christ, I mean you have been a republican in recovery how long now? No one pays a price give me a break. The price is paid by the little people, you know all those assholes the republicans spend so much time bullshitting. You know, come on man, those fucking assholes who live in fly over country… I mean you were part of the club, you know the rules…. you know, Morton offers them whiskey…. Dude quit making me laugh….
Andrew
I say we make it like Thunderdome. We put all the CEOs in the cage with chainsaws and swords and the survivors get the bailout.
chopper
yep. the whole thing had enough time to metastasize and now it’s all out in the ether in the 45 trillion/year CDS market. i don’t know how the hell they’re supposed to just buy it all up and cut out the cancer when it’s taken over the entire body.
RoonieRoo
This crap is making it harder by the day to smile and work with my co-workers and then come home and chat with my sister, all of whom are going to vote for McCain/Palin but they are “Republicans” and therefore “fiscally conservative” like them.
I guarantee you all of them just blindly believe that the government knows what they are doing and they have zero interest in even trying to understand what is happening.
We have taboos in our society, family and work, that you don’t discuss politics or religion. These taboos are counted on for dictators such as the current crop of politicians. If you can’t discuss it, the general population has much harder of a time being educated enough about policy to understand when they are being told to pick up the dropped soap.
As I read the articles about this and realize that very few of my compatriots are reading these or caring, it all comes back to the fact that it is verboten to discuss politics in our society in so many of those family/friend situations.
lampwick
A Democratic member of Congress uses curse words and images of violence to describe the plan:
openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8374
A must read for all.
El Cid
i kn haz nu lekture from Republicans on persnul responsblitee? kthxbai.
Stuck in the Fun House
This, my fellow Americans, is “Trickle Down Economics” when the dam breaks.
Montysano
John, I know that you listened to the Fresh Air interview with Michael Greenberger. Remember what he said: there is a $60T shadow banking system, one that has developed outside of any regulatory oversight. No oversight = we have no fucking idea what we’re buying for our $800B. And if the bailout passes as drafted, Paulson is free and unencumbered to go shopping as he pleases, and everyone, Congress and the courts included, can kindly just STFU.
In a sane world, the Democratic leadership ought to be in the Oval Office, ranting and kicking trashcans around the room, screaming “No fucking way!” Somehow I have a hard time imagining Harry Reid doing that.
Rick Taylor
I like Robert Reich’s take, and his proposed solution. The problem is the current administration was the first to propose a solution, and now the debate is give us authority to spend 700 billion dollars how ever we like without oversight or let the economy melt; we have a gun to our heads. We need a prominent alternative proposal being debated that people who don’t think this is a good idea can coalesce around, and we need it now.
On another point, are there any conservatives opposing this? Is it only a few liberals who think it’s a bad idea to give the government authority to spend nearly a trillion dollars without oversight? I’ve become so utterly cynical I’m not surprised if that’s the case, but it’s still extraordinary.
Stuck in the Fun House
I was just watching our “True” conservative bobbleheads Bill “The Bloody” Kristol and Fred “Fidget” Barnes saying the same thing. It’s the new “Through the Looking Glass” conservative movement.
LiberalTarian
Naomi Klein makes a good point–nationalize the profitable corporations to make up for the shitpile!! :)
El Cid
The Republican Party is the party of standing on your own. It is the party which believes in ownership, in personal responsibility and…
…OMG gimme gimme gimme $700 billion free free free OMG oh glorious money gimme gimme gimme OMG they’re gonna do it I get free money oh holy smokes this is awesome gimme gimme gimme!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dennis - SGMM
I can imagine the Administration offering to put a new coffee pot in the Senate lunchroom in return for unrestricted access to the $700 billion and Reid announcing that “We got important concessions before we passed the bill.”
Tim Fuller
Use the 1.3 trillion to pay off the mortgages of those most at risk. Force down all mortgage interest rates to no more than 8%. Put a couple dozen of these corporate criminals in jail after very public trials. Outlaw usury. End payday advance loans or force interest rates on the industry that aren’t predatory. Tax the hell out the rich people who have been doing all the stealing.
Food service industry is starting to suffer significant declines as people realize they can no longer afford the luxury. How much will it cost the taxpayers to bail out the failing food service industry?
Stop the bailout. Let the rich suffer along with the rest of us. Bastards.
Enjoy.
Dennis - SGMM
So where the hell is the money going to come from? Did Bush find $700 billion in change between the White House sofa cushions? Is there going to be a gargantuan bake sale? Are we going to raffle off the Air Force? No one seems to be talking about it.
Cruel Jest
They’re raping the country and they have the gall to suggest that if we just relax, we might enjoy it.
Irony, hypocrisy, rationality, shame; these words have no meaning anymore. What the hell happened to this country?
GSD
Bend over, Uncle Hank has a 700 billion dollar sausage teed up for our collective asses.
This won’t hurt at all.
-GSD
Lupin
My advice (and I’m serious) is to invest or better yet start a security company. Like in Russia, the rich will need security, A lot of security. It’d likre starting a temp agency, except wuith gun licenses.
Bolder folks might try kidnapping, taking hostages for ransom, one of the oldest business in the world and still very much prevalent around the world. I expect brisk business.
Finally, kinder souls might look into learning chinese and become excellent tour guides to show the wonders of our soon-to-be partially underwater ruined cities to our future Asian tourists.
liberal
Tim Fuller wrote,
Why? Why should idiots who bought during the height of the bubble get bailed out?
I understand that there were some people who really were screwed by e.g. mortgage brokers, but that train already left the station, and there’s no good way to sort out who was a victim and who wasn’t.
Besides, is bankruptcy for a homeowner really the end of the world? Many of those folks put little down, so they have little to really lose. (OK, their credit rating will take a huge hit. Cry me a river.) OTOH, these a**hole bankers really will take a nasty hit. So, mortgage bailouts for homeowners are really bailouts for banks.
Dean Baker has a much more sensible idea: allow people foreclosed upon to continue in the house as renters (at a market rent) until the place is sold.
Keith
Yes, this is quite scary:
This administration’s disdain for the courts is obscene to the point of codifying the irrelevance of the courts into law, who are, ironically, in charge of interpreting said law.
SnarkyShark
Yep….
And whats it going to take to clean up SE Texas? Don’t forget, this place is loaded with GOP voters. Nobody but Nobody can suck down the Public Dole like welfare hatin Red States.
They are going to print money.
Just watch.
Bill H
Who is the idiot who said we didn’t need impeachment because Bush only had one more year to go – couldn’t really do much damage in that little time so impeachment was a lot of trouble that wasn’t worth the time amd cost? Who said that? I’m loading up a big truckload of dogshit to dump on his lawn.
Dennis - SGMM
Another thing missing from these discussions is responsibility. It’s as if the bad mortgages and the investment instruments based on them just grew – like toxic mold in a damp house. Mistakes were made, folks.
John Boehner just dropped the classic line on ABC’s This Week; “It’s time to put partisan politics aside.” That was a nice euphemism for “Eight years of Republican rule are in no way responsible for the state of the economy.”
jcricket
Thank you! I don’t care if we hose corporate profits for a while. If we’re bailing out companies to prevent collapse of the “system”, whether they “deserve it” or not (based on their actions). So to, we can bailout individuals, whether they “deserve it” or not. And while we’re at it, nationalize more companies (more like the AIG takeover) – or increase corporate taxes on profits. If we’re taking on a lot of liabilities, we get some assets/benefits to go along with that.
Let’s start with repeal of the bankruptcy bill. I’m fine with some fiscally irresponsible individuals “suffering” the consequence of a marred credit record, perhaps even loss of their home. But the idiot banks can suffer too for writing the blank check in the first place. That’s how you “teach” moral hazard that Libertarians are always crowing about – it can’t be a one-way street where only individuals suffer.
Zifnab25
From where I stand, the real problem at the end of all this is the banking industry falling apart because no one trusts his neighbor to handle a loan. And who can fucking blame them? If my banking neighbor handed out a few hundred grand to some guy with a 400 credit score making less than $50k / year, I wouldn’t trust him with my money either.
But the end result of all this is an absolute credit freeze-up in which no one can get money from anyone else for any reason.
The solution, as I see it, is to go straight to the heart of the matter and allow people to take out regulated loans from the US Government. We’ve already done this to a certain degree. Loans from the US Treasury’s credit window have skyrocketed in the last year. So fuck the banks. If they can’t handle themselves appropriately, perhaps we SHOULD let them fail. So long as the cash continues to flow to the rest of the nation’s industries, is there any reason anyone else will be hit more heavily than they already have?
jcricket
On a personal level, I have a mortgage that’s only 25% of our total income, and we have the ability to max our 401ks/IRAs, and save a bunch in 529 funds for our kids, while still spending plenty on discretionary items. Why?
The short answer is that it’s easy to do when you’re in the top 5% income-wise. Even at our income level we have watched our earning power decrease every year for the past 5 years as inflation eats up the raises we’re getting – We just have options others don’t for covering those new costs.
I recognize that the deck is stacked against the lower and middle classes in this country. So I 100% support increased taxes on people in my bracket, and even greater increases at the top levels ($250k+), along with decreases at the lower levels, to at least reverse a little of the income inequality that’s galloped along in the last 10-15 years of Republican rule. If I’m ever lucky enough to move from the top 5% to top 1% income wise (my income will go from $150k to $250k), I’ll happily pay an extra 10% of that income in taxes (30% -> 40%, so I net $60k instead of $70k from that income growth) if overall it lowers our national debt and enables us to pay for social services for those not so fortunate.
I’d be more than happy to have a debate about what government should/not do, and what social services we should provide (and how). But it has to be reality based. Conservative/Republican/Libertarian’s reflexive stance that government is always the problem and that taxes are always an evil poisons the debate, and makes it impossible to have a rational discussion.
D. Mason
I haven’t heard him say anything about it but based on his previous stances I would bet that Ron Paul is against it.
jcricket
Rules for politicians according to Republicans:
1) It’s never time for finger-pointing
1b) unless the finger is pointing at a Democrat.
2) You must act in a bipartisan fashion when Republicans are in charge, which means doing what Republicans say.
2b) You must never act in a bipartisan fashion when Democrats are in charge. In fact you should obstruct everything they do, reflexively, whether you agree with the idea or not.
I think Democrats should sieze on the “non-partisan” label, frankly, and apply it to everything they do. Say, “This isn’t a partisan issue, our viewpoint is common sense” (whether Republicans agree or not doesn’t matter). Point out that Republicans are obstructing progress by acting in a partisan fashion. Bipartisanship is a concern-troll/Joe Gandleman wet-dream, and it’s meaningless when one side is Lucy holding the football.
John S.
Fixed.
SGEW
You know, I’m not doing anything tomorrow morning . . . maybe I’ll put on my good suit, make a big old “The End Is Near! Repent!” sign, and hang out on Wall Street during the morning rush hour.
[On Friday I was talking to a guy who works at Wachovia (long story), and I made a joke about how it was probably going to be a hard-drinking weekend for them. He responded by saying: “Shit, I started this morning.”]
jcricket
You know, I try and be as harsh as I possibly can, but I see it’s always possible to be harsher and more correct. Thanks John S :-)
jcricket
I work in a building full of law firms (I work for one of them) and we’re all gonna do fine (diversified business law can sometimes do better during downturns, sadly). But we also have a small number of financial firms, and are very near a large thrift that is probably going under soon. There’s a lot of silence on those floors and from my friends at that thrift. It’s spooky.
Rick Taylor
It’s been a long time in coming. Glenn Greenwald has been documenting the loss of respect for the rule of law for a while. Democrats haven’t raise a peep over legalizing law breaking over FISA for years, so why should they object to giving away power now?
Principles like were a nation of laws, separation of power, and so forth really do matter. When they become weak, then when the crises comes and those in power says you have to give us unchecked authority, there’s nothing to fall back on.
JL
Lampwick linked to an Open Left email from a congressman. The first paragraph was great.
JL
This is the last paragraph that Lampwick linked to at Open Left and this is one that John would probably agree to volunteer for..
Rick Taylor
Pay a price? Hah! Quite the opposite. Via naked capitalism:
Rick Taylor
It turns out Paulson can use this money to buy assets from foreign institutions as well.
Hellooooo, any right-wingers of the nutty variety listening out there? The government wants to take your money and give it to furigners. Helloooooooooooooooo?
Rick Taylor
Whoops, I forgot the link for the above.
nicethugbert
It’s S&L and Great Depression all over again.
Shouting at the Rain
One word: Ebay.
Mike
The point is, John, that no one knows how much of it is good debt and how much bad: this makes it all questionable debt. Since everyone’s terrified of it, its value keeps going down. That means that if a company is holding any substantioal amount of it:
1. As the market gets more and more scared, their valuation keeps going down.
2. No one is willing to lend them money.
3. No one wants to acquire them.
The government proposal is to buy all of this crap up, so the idiots who invested in it will have clean balance sheets, and can raise more money if they’re solvent or be acquired if they’re not.
(Note: I don’t understand at all how we got here. If any accounting standards at all are in use, it should be possible to tie each security to the pool of mortgages it came from, analyze how many of them are in default, and come up with a sensible valuation for it. If no accounting standards were used, why aren’t all these people in jail for fraud?)
Not that I’m defending this plan. First, you know as well as I do that it’s a license to loot the taxpayers. Second, there’s the “moral hazard” argument, even though it never seems to get applied to rich people. If you fuck up at a massive enough scale, the government will bail you out, and the worst thing that can happen is you get a golden parachute, though more likely you get to keep your job and earn a big bonus. Third, there’s the fact that it’s a pure giveaway, with no changes in regulation, accounting, etc. demanded in return for access to all this money.
SnarkyShark
Thank you, I thought I was the only one. JG makes Dean Broder look like a foaming Deaniac.
El Cid
Forcibly taking money from hard working Americans to give to foreign owned investor-speculators is now part of being a patriotic conservative Republican.
PS, Gosh, that health care system sounds expensive, and we don’t believe in socialized health care, so, you know, you need to just f*** off after you give us the $700 Billion.
Stuck in the Fun House
Their not listening, being presently consumed by what Charlie Rangel meant, when he said we should be nice to the disabled when speaking of Sarah “Moose Scat” Palin.
Rick Taylor
From our foreign creditors of course. Good question if they’ll continue to play along. I can’t imagine they’re happy. Especially after the stringent conditions we’ve placed on other nations that spent beyond their means trying to right themselves.
The Moar You Know
The bad debt is worthless – literally worth zero dollars. I was for a bailout in principle (you know, one with penalties and public ownership of the failed assets), but I am very much against this bailout and starting to think that maybe a bailout in general is a bad idea.
Dennis - SGMM
One of the thicket of ironies is that some of the bailout money will go to firms that moved their headquarters and/or operations overseas to avoid paying US taxes.
Rick Taylor
And the Iraq war will pay for itself.
wasabi gasp
The mother of all rickrolls.
Rick Taylor
The sad thing is the wake up call came years ago with Enron. That’s when we should have realized that firms transparency requirements had broken down, and that the system needed to be fixed. But then of course 9/11 happened, then the Iraq war, and the nation’s attention was easily diverted.
Jim
This is the Financial Emergency Broadcast System. This is an actual emergency. Please stick your heads between your legs and kiss your asses goodbye.
No one in the press is questioning the bailout. Paulson was on MTP, along with Bloomberg, who is not a disinterested party since in a sense NY is getting bailed out as well, and of course there was no discussion on the how all this shit was going to be paid for, or no real questioning of the assertion that this HAD to be done THIS WEEK. Apparently the government is completely incapable of implementing a national healthcare system, but is more than capable of bailing out the foundations of the capitalist system. We are so screwed.
Li
“We have taboos in our society, family and work, that you don’t discuss politics or religion. These taboos are counted on for dictators such as the current crop of politicians. If you can’t discuss it, the general population has much harder of a time being educated enough about policy to understand when they are being told to pick up the dropped soap.
As I read the articles about this and realize that very few of my compatriots are reading these or caring, it all comes back to the fact that it is verboten to discuss politics in our society in so many of those family/friend situations.”
My God, yes! Someone who sees this as well. This foolish social rule is the most perverse and effective method of social control ever devised in the minds of devils or men. It is only through conversation and working through the details that understanding can arise, and if you forbid that, then there is no opportunity to understand. And people who haven’t a clue have reduced themselves to the status of perfect tools, that will go along with any plan, and swallow any lie.
Rick Taylor
Woohoo! I found a conservative who thinks that just maybe super-massive unregulated spending to cure our ills is not entirely consistent with conservative principle. Of course he thinks the way to solve the problem is to suspend the capital gains tax, and he blames government entities for driving these poor innocent firms into bankruptcy, but at least he has some principle! Via redstate, congressman Mike Pence:
w vincentz
I have something that I’d like to sell to Mr Paulson.
It’s in a bag in my garage, next to the WMD’s I found.
He won’t be allowed to look at the contents of the bag until he hands over the cash. I’m thinkin’ he’ll make the deal, cause, well, there’s a planet at stake.
No peeking, Hank.
Deal or no deal?
meow
D. Mason
I would just like to point out that an October surprise does not, in fact, have to come in October.
The Thinking Man's Mel Torme
I’m searching in vain for a link, but I remember from 2 – 3 years ago when New York wanted to do exactly this as a way to raise revenue. The broker-bobbleheads were quick to say that, since most trades occur in virtual space anyway, it was trivial to shift the “location” of the trade elsewhere in the U.S. or overseas to avoid the tax.
I’ve heard months ago on NPR’s “Marketplace” yawping about how London has made out so well because of the onerous Sarbanes-Oxley rules that there ought to be statues in tribute to them.
FLILF Hunter
I officially dub this scam the AWMM: Authorization to Waste My Money.
Pass it on.
KSMIAMI
But we can fuck them over too. Imagine if across America, people pooled their funds and then sent them to the Cayman islands? Imagine if we got a message out neighbor to neighbor and blog to blog that this is naked theft and do not buy anything but the essentials of life for the next month. That and Obama should go in full metal mocking phase and make fun of the poor invementment bankers who have to give up their private jets and arm candy… YES WE CAN!!!
ninerdave
From Matt Stoller. So nice, I feel the need to quote in full.
Post entitled:
Yes, There Are Deeply Angry Democratic Members of Congress
I wish I knew who it was so I could donate.
NR
Over at Open Left, Stoller has posted the second letter from this anonymous Congressman. Also very much worth a read.
oh really
Damn, you’re naive. This is just a way to get Bush and Cheney a $700 billion severance package.
Jeebus knows they deserve it after the fine job they’ve done and all the hassles the world has caused for them.
chopper
yeah, we’re basically fucked.
we need a good team to 1) float enough capital into the markets to relax credit while giving the taxpayers confidence that they’re not going to get the royal screwjob in the deal 2) deal with the 800 lb gorilla in the room that is the CDS market, as well as 3) deal with the obstacle course of restructuring wall street in a way that makes everyone happy.
and who do we have in our corner? the bush administration. the guys who gave us iraq. and heckuva-job-brownie. these guys could fuck up a wet dream.
we’re well and truly fucked here, guys. and shit, its september so i can’t just plant a new crop of tomatoes and shit in the garden now, can i? shit.
Shouting at the Rain
What, me worry?
“Americans greeted The Collapse with a shrug”. Thus is written our epitaph.
snarkout
On another point, are there any conservatives opposing this?
Sen. Jim Bunning, who called it “socialism”. (Meanwhile, socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders is against it, saying it’s an unconscionable transfer of money from the middle-class to the rich. They’re both right!)
dslak
I’m reminded of a song:
FLILF Hunter
What I just emailed to my senators and congressional rep:
Rick Taylor
John, some sympathy here. These people are hurting. Via Digby:
dslak
Jesus Christ, RT, I was shocked to learn that snippet was not from The Onion!
Chris Johnson
I’m not at all sure that any bailout is a smart idea.
Now I’m hoping that foreign governments are paying attention to this and prepared to take drastic action to prevent the US wealthy looters from taking a final dramatic robbery.
Isn’t it true that if our Republicans and upper classes manage to seize the moment and cash in one last MASSIVE time before running like hell, the damage they will do will harm world markets way more than a simple economic collapse?
Isn’t it true that the course of action being proposed is not a bandaid on world markets, but one last erosion of the dike, risking apocalyptic collapse worldwide?
Who the hell wants that? Where would safety be for these crooks after that? Where would they even hide in a world that has taken the damages for their actions?
That said, can we not have too many mad Road Warrior rantings about hoarding bullets and fighting off city folk? You don’t want to be boarding up your windows and buying kevlar-piercing bullets. You want to be opening up communication with your neighborhood so you have a community that can look out for you as you look out for them.
Pulling that ‘survivor of the war of life’ bullshit is just more rightwinger, I’ll grab everything I can and kill you if you don’t like it, crap. Fuck your bullet stashes and plans to make a veggie garden behind barbed wire. Make a bigger garden and work with your neighbors to tend it. Look to what you can do to take care of them. Little groups of cooperators can thrive.
For that matter, anywhere it’s safe to do so, communities should make friends with their cops. If we DID get people driving down from the city to rob some houses and stores, I want the cops to be on my side and vice versa. They can use their new militarism to PROTECT the community they’re in, and maybe that attitude would be good for them.
jenniebee
Not surprised. Check this out. Democrats are already being sold on the idea that they will be blamed if they don’t act and deliver exactly what the Bush administration wants; Republicans are going to be left clear to vote against the sure-to-be-unpopular bailout with no risk to themselves.
For those of you who don’t click through, reputed to be from an anonymous congressman (zomg Act Blue for this guy!):
jcricket
I stopped reading both him and Bob Somerby when I realized their slavish devotion to “ideals” that failed to resemble reality was no better than the poor behavior of the people they criticize. Witness Bob’s latest jihad that Josh Marshall has turned into “Hannity” regarding Palin.
I’m all for working with anyone, of any party, who is willing to be pragmatic and have honest debates about subjects. There are differences of opinion regarding how, for example, a government-funded/controlled health care system should work (Taiwan, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, Britian, etc. have radically different systems). The trouble is there is no one in the Republican party (elected officials I’m talking about) with whom you can have that conversation.
To twist a famous phrase around, the only way to win, is not to play with them.
TenguPhule
Thank you for putting something together that never should have been.
What has been seen can’t be unseen.
Molloy
Worth a read:
A short primer
The Subprime Crisis, particularly section IV-Tackling the Credit Crunch.
Here’s hoping this is helpful.
Singularity
When the Mafia busts out a legitimate business, they usually burn it down after all the available credit is gone in order to collect on any insurance that’s left.
The last seven years have been the Republican bust-out of America. And here come Paulsen and Bernanke with the matches, right on cue.
Molloy
Since we are talking money, I just came across this via Media Lens. I’ve no idea whether it’s worthy of attention or not. Could be crap but then again … You be the judge.
KSMIAMI
“There must be some way outta here, said the joker to the thief – there’s so much confusion, I can’t get no relief.”
Summary of Paulson’s super secret bail out meeting
H/T Bob Dylan (though Hendrix played it better.)
Delia
Well, I was listening to some Very Serious Expert on NPR this morning. And the reporter asked him this very question. And the VSE assured her that the Federal Government has ways of dealing with a situation not open to the average person. Like printing money. Really. He said that.
bootlegger
George Will this morning, he even agreed with Donna Brazille. It was actually kinda funny, they both seemed uneasy that they agreed exactly with each other.
Then I listened to two idiots from the senate explain how serious the whole thing is. Brokaw, to his credit, tried to get them to say exactly “how bad is it”. They kept dodging the question so he kept asking it. They said when they heard about it in a meeting with Paulson that there was total silence in the room. So again Brokaw asked for details. And those fucking pricks had the goddammed gall to claim they couldn’t tell US, it was that awful, they couldn’t tell us!
This has been eating at me all day. These idiots really thought we couldn’t handle it. One even said, “I can’t repeat this stuff on a Sunday morning to a national television audience”. Not that he couldn’t, but that he wouldn’t.
No money until one of those asshats goes on TV and tells us what is so damned awful that we have to cough up more of our children’s future.