I am more than a little upset with some of the behavior in the comments section as of late, and it looks like they have devolved into nothing less than the sewer that is Eschaton. Yesterday, in a post about Deb Frisch, it took about exactly 13 minutes and 2 comments for some of you to turn a post about her behavior into a vehicle to attack someone who you hate because you disagree with his political viewpoints.
The thread is now nothing more than an opportunity for you all to get away with saying vile things about Jeff Goldstein- who, I must remind you, was the victim in this case. Jeff didn’t seek out Deb Frisch. Jeff didn’t troll her website asking her to come make threatening and frightening statements about his kids. Even the courts agree with me on this one- it was Jeff who wisely received a restraining order against this woman- who we all agree is sick.
Yet you all, consumed with hatred, unable to harbor an original thought, can’t get past that, because “Jeff is the enemy” to you- and you did nothing but make personal, rude, nasty, and offensive attacks. I doubt had the roles been reversed in this case, and Jeff been the culprit and Deb the victim, your attitude would have been ‘the bitch deserves it.’
And it ends. Today. I can handle you all attacking me- I will swing back, and this is my website. But if you can not control yourselves, and can not manage to write comments that are not loaded with unwarranted, unfair, and personal attacks against my friends, I will take care of the problem myself. This will become one of those asshole websites that deletes comments and regularly bans people. I might even have more fun, and just edit your comments to make you look dumber than you already do- although in many cases, that will be exceedingly difficult.
So it is in your hands. Change, knock it off, or I will do it for you. I have had enough, and it is time for some of you to grow up.
Zifnab
Wow. I didn’t even realize that thread was that popular. Although, to be fair, once a thread hits 100+ posts if it manages to cling to the original topic its usually a shocker.
Still, I don’t know why anyone is commenting on this sort of thing anyway. Just let this tragedy of the blogsphere drop already. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to ressurect such a sad specter.
Davebo
I see exactly what you mean John, and I agree.
Oops.. did I just stroke the dog or what?
matt
Really OT: John, I was wondering why you don’t post more about the Iraq war? I think I asked this about a year ago as well. It’s the biggest issue we’re facing, you’re one of my favorite bloggers, you’re a supporter of the war, a vet, and I just don’t get why you don’t talk about it much. Unless the answer is obvious in that you just don’t feel like it, which is cool since it’s your blog and all.
Anyway, if there’s a BJ suggestion box, more insights into the Iraq situation, please.
ThymeZone
I feel totally left out. I really hardly even know who Frisch and Goldstein are. I have no opinion about either of them.
I can be paid to have one, and I work relatively cheap. For a hundred bucks, I’ll sing the praises of Rush Limbaugh.
The Other Steve
Wow.
Apparently you missed the Protein Wisdom commentators who were attacking you personally John, because you showed a little empathy towards this sick woman.
And you attack us.
Wow.
Zifnab
Wait. I got “claw my eyeballs out” and “liberals suck”. You’re going to have to run the rest of that by me again.
Zifnab
Careful. I hear the last time Hannity did that he got herpes.
RonB
Oh, I know, I just wanted to take issue with the idea that he is only hated by the left for his politcs.
Ancient Purple
Mr. Cole,
Fair enough. But can you clarify if there is ever a time when going on the offensive against Jeff Goldstein is ever appropriate on your website. I get the feeling you really want to make any discussion about him forbidden and that is fine. It is your website.
However, if you, Tim or Tom posts an open thread and someone wishes to make a post about Goldstein’s position on issue X and criticize him, is that going to be okay?
I like being here and being part of the fray, but I think it only fair we have a ruling as to whether or not Goldstein is fair game for comment outside of the Deb Frisch issue.
Mr Furious
Yikes, you guys really pissed dad off…
“I was gone all week! I didn’t do it!”
matt
The Other Steve, what connection does John have to the people posting comments at Protein Wisdom? He’s addressing the comments here. I don’t see what one has to do with the other. He’s supposed to say, “some of you guys are jerks, but so are some other people at another site, so it’s cool.”??
RonB
Sorry. That was my pretentious way of saying that Jeff is pretentious. My bad.
RonB
Ok, John, I get the hint. I wasn’t trying to start anything.
matt
RonB,
Got it.
John Cole
I don’t care what you all think about Jeff. I don’t want you using my wesbite to write your nasty, personal, over-the-top attacks about him. You don’t like Jeff- go to http://www.blogger.com. Write to your heart’s content.
And it stops today, even if I have to delete 1000 comments an hour.
Mr Furious
Seriously? Do what you need too, John. I cannot believe that thread garnered 250+ comments. Perhaps if there were some meatier topics to choose from, that one would have fallen by the wayside…
Krista
Can we still write unwarranted, unfair and personal attacks against your friend’s commenters?
/ducks
Mr Furious
There’s a reason why I NEVER ener the comments at escheton…they suck and they’re long. I’d hate to see that happen here.
John Cole
Pointing out that many of you used that thread to launch the most vicious, small-minded, personal attacks against Jeff that you could come up with and then telling you I am no longer going to put up with it is ‘attacking you?’
We don’t even speak the same language.
John S.
I’m amazed that that is what you walked away from that thread with, John. Never let it be said that you aren’t completely loyal and devoted to your friends (even the ones that call you names and mock you).
If you find this to be an offensive comment:
Then do what you have to do. I don’t think I said anything over the top or unreasonable.
Face
Zif–
Ron was lambasting Cole’s excoriation exacerbated by the vitriol expoused by the minions he mints his proletariat. Cole’s festooning of victimhood on Goldstein appears coorelated to his established friendship with said omnipotent and often superfluous confederate; alas, many ought question such victim status. While indeed, Goldstein was verbally accosted in a manner ill-advised and pants-wettable, his ilk so often opine with such hubris and ferocity so as to make his tasting of his own medicine quite acceptable to many.
Hope that helps.
matt
John, I think you inadvertently deleted one of my comments?
Pb
John Cole,
Er. Are you talking to me? I’m right here, and I’ll happily defend myself from your accusations. Here was the second comment:
For the record, it isn’t Jeff Goldstein’s “political viewpoints” that I despise–I may not agree with them, but if expressed civilly, I’d have no problem with him apart from that disagreement. But more importantly, I don’t know Deb Frisch from Eve, which is why I said “From all accounts”. I have seen Jeff Goldstein at work in the blogosphere, however, so I have some familiarity with that.
That having been said, I parrotted hearsay–the Common Wisdom, as it were–about Deb Frisch, and then pointed out a commonality I noticed through my knowledge of Jeff Goldstein, and I was content to leave it at that.
That is, until Paul L. and ‘Darleen’ and friends came in, apparently determined to pick a fight. But I guess that wasn’t worthy of your mention. You know, essentially calling us Nazis, or immoral, or what have you. I guess that’s just entertainment for you?
Hey, whatever happened to that “Blogger’s Code of Ethics” thing, anyhow, and how would that interact? Would you have to remove yourself from the blogroll, or just delete your own blog entirely, or what?
Mr Furious
Face, you must have worn out your thesaurus on that coment…
Faux News
DON’T. MAKE. ME. STOP. THIS. CAR (oops)THREAD!
Mr Furious
Good one, Faux.
Nikki
Actually, it looked more like a battle between John’s and Jeff’s commenters than an attack against Jeff. There wasn’t that much that can be accurately described as vile or viscious that was said about Jeff.
And I read the entire thread. Found it very entertaining.
John S.
John-
On second thought, I think your position speaks very highly of your character. You don’t want your blog to turn into a cesspool of hatred for Jeff Goldstein even though he doesn’t seem willing to return the favor. The fact that he doesn’t mind his commenters saying:
Doesn’t deter you from your position in the slightest. Congratulations on taking the higher ground. FWIW, I just found some new respect for you.
The Other Steve
I’ll just remind you all… When I first started posting to this blog regularly, Goldstein was defending some moron who had posted threatening messages on some BitchPhd blog. So I just think this whole episode is rather ironic, and could care less either way.
Jeff likes playing victim. He launches attacks at other bloggers all the time, and then whines endlessly when he is attacked back.
Don’t play his same game. It’s childish and it only serves to demean yourself.
Krista
John, you horse’s ass, in a lot of those comments, we were defending you after Jeff’s shrieking minions descended upon the thread, ready to tear you a new one because you had the unspeakable temerity to feel pity and sympathy for someone who is obviously mentally disturbed.
Unbelievable.
chopper
i think a big part of the problem is that kids on this site are waiting to have discussions about more important things, but get some thin-ass blog stories to work with. it takes a while to get a story up about the huge recent decision regarding wiretapping, but some doin’s a-transpirin’ on a friends blog seems to get more priority for discussion.
john, you’re seen as a bit of the vanguard by people because you’re a republican blogger who’s starting to realize the complete ineptness of the people in charge. meanwhile, friends of yours are still firmly seated in the deck chairs, if you know what i mean.
problem is, so much of the time we’re seeing you take a few steps and then reflexively snap back into ‘right-wing blogger’ mode, making inane statements about how the dems are screwing up because some non-dem freelance writer used a term you don’t like or ‘cindy sheehan blah blah’. a lot of this is caused by bloggers thinking that they’re hot sh1t because they have a blog and so everyone gives a damn what they or their friends have to say. “i wake up in the morning and i piss excellence!!!”
missing the forest while obsessing over the trees. and such wankery in stories leads to wankery in comments.
the other part of the problem is, you and your ilk in the right-wing of the blog world defended the administration for years. loudly, to the point of acting cultish. friends of yours in the blog world took every opportunity to brand people like me and others here as traitors and the worst scum of the earth because we’re liberals, and because they could get away with it cause they were on top for a while.
what’s happening now is, the public is coming around and realizing that most of it is a buncha garbage. and right-wing bloggers who defended, and continue to defend the things going on are getting the internet version of a long-deserved come-uppance.
it may suck to see it happen to friends of yours, or even yourself, but you reap what you sow.
Krista
I do agree with John S., however, and can see your point about not wanting your blog to turn into a constant shouting match between your commenters and Jeff’s.
Still, it galls to see you perpetually defending Jeff from us, when he obviously doesn’t extend you the same courtesy.
Zifnab
You had me at ‘lambasting’.
mrmobi
John, I’d like to second Matts comment concerning more posts about the war. If there is a more important issue facing us right now, I don’t know what it is. Beer blogging and recipes are fine, but where’s the beef?
Pb
LOL.
Yeah, I wish–the scummy *conservative* BlogAds on this site suck! Although at the moment… world’s smallest camera phone? WTF? Oh, but there’s the Pajamas Media banner. Not that I’m likely to click through on any of those.
John Cole
Krista-
I do appreciate you defending me. I just don’t want this website used as a platform to bash Jeff. it really is that simple. And again, I don’t think asking you all not to spend 250 comments calling Jeff ‘pastie’ or a ‘fuckwit’ or whatever the insult du jour may be is really that outrageous.
And it isn;t just about loyalty, it isthat I think the attacks are personal and over-the-top. And I don’t want to host them. So please stop it, everyone.
RonB
This motherfucker should hit about 200 comments by the time I get up tomorrow. Goodnight, all.
When it’s all over John, will you give us an idea of how many ill tempered posts like mine you had to delete?
Zifnab
This is, in the end, payback. I think that’s the general consensus. Not always deliberate and conscious payback, but certainly payback that was due for some time. We’ve listened to Protein Wisdom swear up and down about traitor raghead sympathizer liberals. We’ve been banned from Red State for our “offensive discourse” when we argue for evolution or against state sponsored religion in schools or for a woman’s right to choose. The right wing of the blogsphere is notorious for its bigotry, small mindedness, and general stupidity. Tucked in a virtual bunker while conservative policy implodes around it, these guys take petty swipes at the opposition, Swiftboating and Macaca-ing, because they have nothing else productive to contribute.
So we’re sick of it. And we’re out for vengence. This is what a liberal backlash looks like. People getting pissed off and going for the nuts of every right wing “journalist” who’s had it coming to him for so very, very, very long now.
Pb
I appreciate that, actually. So is this going to be the new site policy for everyone, or just for Jeff Goldstein?
Zifnab
skip
Jeff is really Tony Kornheiser. Am I banned yet?
Ancient Purple
Who knows? I essentially asked the same question an hour ago and still don’t know if John actually answered it.
The Other Steve
I wouldn’t even know. I never read protein-wisdom, because it’s a cess pool, both the blogger and the commentors.
I was referring to the PW commentors who came here.
I queered the thread. I admit it, and I’m damn proud of it. There was no serious discussion that could be had with people accusing John of moral relativity, or the more bizarre attacks like this one:
Which was such a non-sequitor, I was baffled where it even came from.
Larv
Well, the number of comments had a lot more to do with the PW crowd coming over and acting like idiots (the Nazis were liberals! Deb Frisch is EVIL INCARNATE and deserves only our hatred and bile!) than any uncontrollable desire to bash Goldstein. He is an easy target, however, and the spectacle of someone who obviously has no problem engaging in a rhetorical free-for-all suddenly getting all touchy when its directed back at him is a bit much to take. I mean, it’s not as if JG tries hard to maintain his blog as an oasis of comity and politesse on the dirty mean interwebs.
Face
Sweet Jesus, Cole’s putting his foot down. I’m assuming this means the end of Darrell (personal attacks…check), DougJ & ppNewName (over the top…check), and Darrell, a second time. Which is good, because their dry humo(u)r, bombastic and acerbic remarks, and general pomposity just sucked the life out of those wine and cat threads.
And for a bloghost to threaten to “edit posts”…yea! Credibility in spades!
ed. JC: John Cole rules, bitches
PeterR
Talk about convergent evolution! Christy Hardin Smith had a similar post on Firedoglake just yesterday. What will those Jane Hamshers of the left think of next?
Seriously, you both have a point.
RSA
Me either. I gather it’s about Max Frisch, the Swiss novelist and playwright, and his views of Emmanuel Goldstein, the scapegoat character in 1984. It’s hard for me to see what the conflict is about, but after all Frisch and Orwell were both political writers.
The Other Steve
Well to be fair. I never really attacked Jeff Goldstein in that thread. I defended him and his commentors.
But while the thread was fun, I’d prefer something more of substance.
Punchy
I like Jeff. He is reasonable and fair. His wisdom is very astute…almost protein-like. This protein-like wisdom he speaks….all 3-D folded in alpha-helixes and B-sheets, using the latest in chaperone proteins, is topical, yet very fragile to hot tempers (denaturation) and icy-cold put downs (freeze-thaw cycles). I like to visit his site with some of my own opinions…ya know….just to phosphorlyze some of his views with my own personal tyrosine kinase of knowledge.
It’s a shame that Deb went all protease on his site….Jeff, unable to unleash the leupeptin, aprotinin, and pepstatin A in time, was chewed up and spit out before he knew what digested him. Perhaps I will send him a plasmid, so as to get those protein-wisdoms up and translated a little quicker.
The Other Steve
Interesting Post
I gotta say, the Jane Hamsher’s of the left are far more civil than the Jane Hamsher’s of the right.
Andrew
What if we just quote Goldstein accurately?
John S.
Comeuppance be thy name.
Staci
Hi again. My bad when I posted yesterday. I mentioned a we, and someone asked if I had a turd in my pocket. Uh no, I’m a lady in my mid thirties, and only a crazy, scummy woman would deserve that comment. However, I’ll take it with a grain of salt.
I am not from PW either nor do I know Jeff personally. I have read some things of John’s before, and while I don’t agree with many of the things he says, I enjoy reading him and find he seems like a decent guy.
My interest in this stems from teh fact I am in the education field. It has been a truly spectacular thing to watch. Not to mention, the academia I work with have heard about her antics through their fellow academics, including those from her alma mater, Penn.
The we I referred to was: http://donthiredeb.blogspot.com
I stressed bipartisan because it is.
We don’t consider this lady a representative of the left. Instead of attacking me with such childish comments when not ONE of you knows me instead of asking in the tone I pretty much came here with would have been nice.
I’ll say this, IF that lady ever came here and posted bullshit to you guys, there would be no free pass. We would just look at you as one of the many she harassed. She uses your bashing of Jeff Goldstein, whoever he is, to justify her behavior. That same justification she grasped, propelled her to stalk and harrass someone else. She is now again being prosecuted by the law from someone totally unrelated to Jeff, but basically the same type of behavior.
It is general consensus this lady needs help. I find it appalling her family has not done an intervention.
Sorry again if you find me so offensive. Maybe I need to go to sensitivity training since I come off as so darn harsh.
Andrew
I don’t think that Staci “gets” the Internet.
Allow me to recommend some light reading.
Davebo
You mean you have no idea who Jeff is, yet he is one of only two links on your blogroll?
ThymeZone
There’s a language gap between real life and the Internets.
Basically, blogs are now like Usenet, where the standard is based on the Food Fight model. Hyperbole and overstatement are the norm.
It helps to wear kevlar underwear and to remind yourself not to take personally anything said in a place like this.
It seems like a rough crowd, but we’re all bark and no bite. All hat and no cattle. All …
Well, you get the idea.
Punchy
PoTD. I cannot stop laughing. Seriously, this is hysterical. No offense, Staci, I’m an idiot. Just ignore me. But guffaw I shall continue….
Tulkinghorn
John-
Sorry you do not like it if we pick on Goldstein. But he has been ridiculous, and it seems so right and natural to ridicule the ridiculous. And his commenters piled on with absurdities, Godwinning and ranting about non-sequitors, making a sorry spectacle of themselves. The point that somebody like Frisch is understandably attracted to that site is a valid one.
Still, for anyone who lives to team up on Goldstein, just google ‘retardo’.
Davebo
Yeah, no attacks to be found here. It should be noted however that this type of disgusting attack is typical of only 92.4% of Jeff’s commenters.
Staci
Oh, I think I get the internet. Quite well I may add.
And let me add, it is not my site. Yes, there are some PWs, but there are some libs too. I had heard of Jeff before, but didn’t really frequent his site. More like internet pop culture. As for the site, we stress this is not partisan. I do not believe this woman is a representative of the left or anyone for that matter. That is all I was trying to convey. The site tracks her history, simply put. She actually emails some behind the scene from there.
I’m not being oversensitive here either. There was some sarcasm. I just thought I was trying to be polite, and having read John before, had assumed maybe I would be treated with some form of courtesy. I wasn’t aware it really was a flame war either. My bad for trying to provide some extra facts before you twisted it around. And I don’t need special info as to what it is either. I can hold my own when I want. Again, just trying to be informative and POLITE. Something it seems you aren’t interested in for the most part.
kaiserD
“this type of disgusting attack is typical of only 92.4% of Jeff’s commenters.” ok, what’s the percentage with John’s commenters, Newton? quit playing innocent victim here.
Pb
According to John, I think it’s 0%, by fiat–so watch it.
Davebo
Me a victim?
You didn’t call me a self-righteous twat. But you did call me Newton and I take offense seeing as how I constantly violate the law of gravity.
Punchy
Fixed. Now lay off the insults, buddy.
kaiserD
“But you did call me Newton and I take offense seeing as how I constantly violate the law of gravity.” well, so did Newton.
Punchy: understood. buddy.
DougJ
I stopped attacking Jeff Goldstein long ago, because I believe he is genuinely mentally ill. But please tell me he’s not your friend.
DougJ
And I didn’t mean that last one as an attack. I agree that the attacks on him are often over the top and the Jane Hamsher post about his medication was completely inappropriate.
But don’t pretend that he’s reasonable or deserving of any sort of respect, John. That’s just silly.
Slide
how long did it take you John to attack Juan Cole as an anti-Semite, without a shred of fucking evidence, because you disagree with his politics? Guess some of your commenters are taking their clue from you for vicious unwarranted and unsupportable attacks.
chopper
good point.
kaiserD
Juan Cole IS an anti-Semite.
John S.
Round these here parts, son, we require lil’ things like proof when yer makin’ such bold statements.
Pb
What’s worse, when we did start looking for proof, we instead found… counterexamples!
kaiserD
why’s that, son? according to Slide, it’s already been asserted by John Cole. so i’m guessing he provided the proof.
John S.
Except that it’s easy to warrant and substantiate attacks of Jeff’s, er, behavior. There’s a veritable mountain of evidence out there.
John S.
You guess wrong, sonny.
kaiserD
doubt it, lassie.
Pb
And apparently kaiserD is incapable of verifying this for himself? Is your web browser broken?
Reid
People’s expectations are absolutely amazing. John, if I were you, I wouldn’t hesitate to shut down comments completely for an indefinite period. It would sure put the chill on the problem, and sometimes people don’t appreciate what they’ve got … until they haven’t got it anymore.
Anyone who complains can be told to fax in a copy of their contract with John, and get a pro-rated refund.
I don’t come here for the comments. I only read this thread because it seemed clear John felt they’d gotten out of line. So I wouldn’t miss them at all.
Slide
shut down the comments? It would put the chill on Balloon Juice that is for sure since the comments section is one of the only reasons for coming around here anymore as Cole has lost all interest in politics now that it is clear how profoundly wrong he has been about Bush and Iraq.
D. Mason
John, I didn’t chime in on the last thread because the subject was pretty low brow but I did skim the comments after you posted this. I’m a little curious about why there is no admonishment for the folks who went over the top defending your friend, partially by goading the other side of the argument. I mean, loyalty is a good thing but two groups of people got completely out of hand, not just one. Don’t you think it’s kind of bullshit to ignore the ones who are on your “team”?
The comments here have been a series of provocations and personal attacks for a while now. In some ways it reflects the altercation between your friend Jeff and this crazy lady Deb. Surely you can see how he provoked her which was followed by an outrageous response. Yes he is the victim as you accurately stated but he was not exactly a snow white dove in the matter either.
Given the state of the comments section I knew what the comments would be like before I finished reading the original post. I know you read the comments section so I can’t understand how you wouldn’t know that a thread about a crazy leftist doing something terrible to a provocative rightie would explode quickly(since you’re a professor feel free to correct the egregious grammar there, I deserve it).
Vladi G
I didn’t post in the thread in question, but I’d submit that people don’t hate Jeff Goldstein because he holds opposing policital views. They hate him because he’s a dick. He’d still be a dick if he Democrat. Some people are just dicks.
Blue Neponset
If you want to cut your nose off to spite your face then go for it.
My suggestion re: Goldstein bashing
I think it should be clear from the number of times you have given the ‘don’t bash Goldstien’ warning that any mention of him is a guarantee that the comment’s section will soon break out into a flame war/bash fest. If you don’t want people to bash Jeff Goldstein then I suggest you shouldn’t post stories that involve him. He doesn’t bring the best out in people.
Vladi G
I’ve never bought coffee from this website, FYI, so if you’re just doing all of this to suck up to me, John, you should stop it.
Pooh
John,
I understand the point that you are making (and it’s probably long overdue) – I just wonder about why these “knock it off” posts always seem to be in defence of Goldstein (While no one deserves to have their children threatened [duh] he gets a lot of vitriol that falls well short of actual criminal stalking because he dishes a lot out). Never a word when nameless denizens taken unwarranted and repeated personal shots at say Krista or Steve.
But that said, if you are going to “get tough,” it would behoove you to have a policy that goes beyond “be nice to Jeff.” While this place is a great deal more rambunctious and less high brow, I suggest taking a perusal of Obsidian Wings policy (and here) Those probably go too far – what would BJ be without profanity, I ask you? But a good start towards something that is both reasonably clear, and less prone to at least the appearance of arbitrary enforcement.
Ape
I want to cockslap you John.
Guess you now have absolute moral authority to threaten my children (if only in your own twisted mind).
Perry Como
That thread was queered as soon as our host hit publish on the post.
chopper
check it for yourself, boyo.
kaiserD
“That thread was queered as soon as our host hit publish on the post.”
why’s that, PC? cuz you can never pass up an opportunity to lamely flame Goldstein?
kaiserD
“check it for yourself, boyo”
no thanks, devotchka.
kaiserD
“It was all very, very sad, actually…”
yeah. tragic.
Perry Como
Go back through the thread. I didn’t flame Goldstein, lamely or otherwise.
Did I flame PW commentors? Yes. Did I use some of Goldstein’s favorite phrases? You bet. Did I throw in a barb about Althouse? One could say so.
Ozymandias
Excuse me while I lamely flame Plame regardless of the blame as it is all the same.
Mac Buckets
Sure, he might still be a dick (by whatever definition you use) if he were a leftian, but the left would never criticize him because he’d be their dick. Kos is a dick, and he’s practically the Mayor of Moonbattia. Greenwald is actually multiple dicks, and most of you want to erect (heh) a shrine or six for him and his phony sockpuppets.
I think the lefties hate Goldstein because, by the measure of the identity politics he so abhors (acerbic gonzo Colorado academic), he should be one of them. The heretic is always hated more than the infidel, after all. Hence, all the seemingly desperate ad hominem directed at “pastie” (an insult which, I admit, makes no sense to me) from places like S,N.
Also, they can’t beat him. He’s just too good, and he can be ruthless at dismissing those few lefties who dare take an occasional run at him. He’s the only blogger I can think of who doesn’t delete comments yet has no trolls who will take on his posts headlong. They know what will happen to them, and they stay far, far away.
John S.
Dr. Seuss…is that really you?
jg
So why is Mac allowed to say mean shit about Greenwald? Is Goldstein the only sacred cow for the Coles of the right?
John S.
Bullshit.
Stop projecting your flaws, Mac.
Anything beyond this point of your post is just sheer drivel, but certainly in accordance with your sparkling record here.
chopper
no thanks, devotchka.
suit yourself. as has been said by those of us who actually were a part of the thread, cole didn’t offer any proof when asked.
Pb
John S.,
Agreed.
Because, you know, ‘lefties’ have *never* criticized Kos. ROFL.
That is, quite possibly, the lamest BucketTroll(tm) I’ve yet seen.
Vladi G
Nobody who’s greatest hits of argumentation include threats to slap someone with their cock and bragging about molesting someone’s sister really doesn’t bring a lot of ammunition.
John Cole
If defenses of me become anything more than a semi-annual occurrence and approach the 200+ comments echoing ‘Fuck jeff Goldstein that fuckwit asshole pasty blah blah blah,” I would consider this advice.
As it is, any mention of Jeff gets levels of rage and viciousness that no other subject can even approach.
FWIW- Jeff and I don;t agree on very much these days, and he would probably very much disagree we are on the same team.
Mac Buckets
Very easy for you to assert, but no one cares what you think.
Feel free to roll the dice with your family’s safety when the wackos start posting filth about your two-year-old, but it’s the height of arrogance (fueled — as always — by partisanship, of course) to give your opinion of what is necessary and what is credible when you’re not involved.
Vladi G
Make that “Anybody…
Mac Buckets
Huh? Again, in English.
jg
I wonder why?
Tom in Texas
A few points from personal experience:
While Goldstein, to his immense credit, never deleted my comments, the reason I don’t take on his posts head on is because when I attempted to do so on a post concerning Greenwald the only reponse offered (not by JG, but rather a commenter) was a suggestion I fellated him. There was never an attempt to address my argument.
His willingness to let my arguments stand differentiates him from the aforementioned Christy Hardin Smith, who has (or some FDLer has) erased my comments multiple times. Perhaps she is serious about allowing constructive criticism into her site. I certainly hope so. The comments would improve dramatically.
Mac Buckets
I’m glad “lefties” agree that Kos is a dick. To be more credible, they should be louder in saying so.
Vladi G
You need to read the correction before being a smartass, genius.
John Cole
You wanbt to crap all over Jeff, you have two options.
1.) http://www.blogger.com – You can devote all your time and energy to writing whatever you want.
2.) http://www.proteinwisdom.com- You can go to his site and bash away, where he can respond.
I am not going to pay my money every month to provide you all with forum for personal attacks on Jeff, where each one of you tries to out-nasty or out-vulgar thenext on how much you hate Jeff Goldstein and create a Goldstein bashing feeding frenzy.
If that is asking too much of you, then move on somewhere else, or I will just add your ip to the list so that I can determine what comments of yours are apprpriate.
It really isn’t that hard. I have had enough. And for those of you who continue to attempt to bring my work into this, this is your final warning. Slide- you are gone forever. I am done putting up with you.
What I do for a living has no bearing, it is not relevant, it is not something I trumpet, and all you idiots who freaked out about John Aravoisis being outed but think it is appropriate to bring my work into thediscussion when I do not make it a topic of discussion can either knock it off, or you are unwelcome. Period.
Are we clear?
tBone
Did you delete a bunch of comments from that thread, John? Because I’m having trouble finding all of the over-the-top, vicious, rage-filled personal attacks that you’re so distressed about. I’ve seen much, much worse here.
Must be August.
Mac Buckets
I can feel the IQ in here rising.
kaiserD
hey Vladi, can you get over your obsession with cock-slapping? Goldstein’s entire repertoire does not consist of this. he mentioned it in jest a few times and all of a sudden it’s is MO. you haters grasp. and grasp. talk about pathetic.
yeah, and what Mac said.
Mac Buckets
Even with the first word changed, it’s still not a sentence and still doesn’t make sense, genius. Try again. Or better yet, don’t even bother — I can see it’s not going anywhere.
The Other Steve
Honestly, I think you have to admit. Jeff overplayed the whole Deb thing. This is not to excuse the woman, she’s clearly got problems. But to spend so much time obsessing about her himself. He clearly relished the experience.
You name a prominent blogger, and I’ll point to someone who has threatened them.
But it’s rare that someone tries to make a federal case out of it.
John Cole
Yes. I have deleted about 40 comments in the past 15 hours, more than I have deleted in the previous 4 years. I just deleted three from some anonymous poster who asserted that Jeff got a restraining order that was unneccessary (it was all a stunt- the woman was no real threat and Jeff just wanted the atention, you see!), who then wrote back that my deleting that crap was ‘confirming her suspicions.’
Because I am a fascist, or something.
The days of pile-ons of Goldstein are over. You disagree with him- fine. State why. But the simple ‘fuck pasty’ days are over.
You can call me a hypocrite because I encourage pile-ons of Dobson, but not Goldstein- whatever. I think there are precious few things I won’t allow here. 200 comments attacking someone I like and know as a person is one of them. Deal with it.
The Other Steve
A self-hating dick.
John Cole
I actually like Kos as a person, so I guess I am in for another round of crap. I think he gets unhinged sometimes, but from what I have seen, all passionate people do. And I think he has done something really great with the Daily Kos. Addtionally, he has never been anything but gracious and kind to me in all of our personal (email) interactions.
So there you have it.
The Other Steve
I think I understand your position.
But you realize that when people like Mac Buckets or KaiserD and the other haters post insults… they’re gonna get responded to?
kaiserD
“Honestly, I think you have to admit. Jeff overplayed the whole Deb thing. This is not to excuse the woman, she’s clearly got problems. But to spend so much time obsessing about her himself. He clearly relished the experience.”
no! we DON’T have to admit that he overplayed it, because he didn’t! jesus h., he didn’t care about the threats upon himself, but this emotionally disturbed woman threatened his wife and his 2 YEAR OLD SON! using Jon Benet references! initially he just let it slide, and she even “apologized”; then she came back with more vile and violent innuendo. what the hell would you do?
nyrev
John, I love ya, but that’s crap. You’ve got a blatant double-standard going on around here that is bound to draw a little criticism now and again.
For example, Andrei calls Stormy a dumb c#nt and gets banned until he apologizes. Fine. That was rude.
Darrel calls Krista a fucking bitch — free pass. Huh.
People point out that Jeff’s demonizing of anyone more liberal than John Ashcroft and his fondness for locker-room “humor” make him an easy target. Boo on them for being big meanies to your buddy Jeff.
Buddy Jeff sends the Illiterate Horde over here to call us all Nazi petfuckers — nada.
You want to have that double-standard? Go for it. It’s your party, dude. But don’t pretend it’s because the bad ole libs over here are so very, very mean to you. Darrell gives you just as much shit over your views as Slide does, and Doug J. and Krista are at least as likely to defend you as Mac.
And for the record, I don’t dislike PW because Jeff’s a Republican. I dislike PW because Jeff’s a lousy writer, and I find his unique combination of pseudo-intellectualism and misogyny somewhat less than endearing.
Punchy
Who posted that thread on Goldstein? Tim F.? T’n’T? Oh, nevermind.
There must be some Pajama Party rule about not allowing one’s site to bash another’s…Just wait until Cindy Sheehan moves to Pa’Jam a Media…Mr. Cole’d be out of ammo in a week.
Defense Guy
Good for you John. Not that it will make any differance, because they hate the right in general and Goldstein in particular way more than they like you, IMO.
While you are at it, maybe you can teach your readers a few of the other logical fallacies, as they only seem to know about strawmen and as a result tend to overuse it.
John S.
Only from folks like Mac and Darrell (and their new pal kaiserD). And if they give you crap, you can most likely be sure that your opinion is perfectly reasonable.
Vladi G
Hey, I can’t help it if you’re too stupid to read english.
kc
His willingness to let my arguments stand differentiates him from the aforementioned Christy Hardin Smith, who has (or some FDLer has) erased my comments multiple times
Surely I’m not the only person who’s had comments deleted by both Christy Hardin Smith AND Jeff Goldstein? In neither case was the deleted comment obscene, profane, insulting, etc.
I wasn’t too upset about it. Though I do think bloggers who run around deleting comments and threatening to delete and so forth just wind up looking kind of drama queen-ish . . .
McNulty
Tim’s two posts on Iran: 46 comments
John’s post on Republicans playing politics with stem cells: 14 comments
The two Deb Frisch/Goldstein/but the PW people started it posts: almost 400 comments
The irony that there are nitwits here who say they only get into these pissing matches because there aren’t posts on important subjects: PRICELESS
John S.
Why, Defense Guy?
Everything I ever needed to know about logical fallacies I learned from reading your posts – when you used to comment here, anyway.
The Other Steve
I think you mean we use the strawman accusation a lot.
You’re right, but it’s only because it’s such a common tactic of the right to try to win arguments we feel it necessary to point it out.
Glad to have you back! Arguing with Darrell has been boring.
kaiserD
“Anybody who’s greatest hits…” is not proper english. try “Anyone whose greatest hits…”
John S.
Ironically, I haven’t seen you weigh in on any of the other ‘important’ threads, McNulty.
I guess that makes you a nitwit, too?
tBone
Fair enough. I just couldn’t see what you were getting so excited about.
John Cole
I actually don;t remember this at all, but I will take your word for it. If anyone resorts to that kind of stuff, PLEASE bring it to my attention.
And I don’t mean simply calling me a dick or something- I can be a dick, and many times the choice of words is accurate.
kc
hey Vladi, can you get over your obsession with cock-slapping? Goldstein’s entire repertoire does not consist of this. he mentioned it in jest a few times and all of a sudden it’s is MO
Jeff Goldstein was sitting in a bar one day, looking downcast.
“Hey, buddy, what’s eating you?” said the bartender.
JG replied, “Man, life sucks. You start a political blog, post ten times a day, but do people call you Jeff the Political Blogger? No. You expound at length on literary theory, but do people call you Jeff the Literary Theorist? No. You build a bridge, heck, you build ten bridges, but do they call you Jeff the Bridge Builder? Hell no.
“But you threaten to slap just ONE guy with your cock . . .”
Mac Buckets
Hey, whether someone’s a “dick” or not is totally independent from whether you like them or not. For a lot of my friends, “dick” would be a relative compliment in comparison to other appelations they’ve been given through the years.
Just to test whether I’m right or not, let’s see what John “100% Wrong, 100% Of The Time” S. has to say:
Whew! OK, I know I’m right.
kaiserD
“But you threaten to slap just ONE guy with your cock . . .”
zackly. all of sudden people obsess about this “threat”…
Blue Neponset
John it wasn’t an open thread. You brought Goldstein up and got the usual response. The PW peanut gallery then showed up to ‘defend’ Goldstein and after that the flame war had a life of its own. I know I am repeating myself, but if you don’t want any Goldstein bashing then don’t write about him. It is pretty obvious, to me at least, that your ‘don’t bash Goldstein” warnings will never work.
Punchy
Waiting…waiting…waiting….
Defense Guy
It is, sorry if it wasn’t clear. I only pointed it out because in the Deb thread which birthed this one, accusations of strawmen usage appeared in an overwhelming number of posts. That and stupid arguments about where to plot National Socialism on the political spectrum.
Yeah, which would explain why you so misidentify then.
chopper
right, like the story about the wiretapping decision, that only garnered a few posts. mostly because the story had already been hashed out on like 30 blogs for days before. too little, too late.
but a new dishwasher, that’s some important-ass shit right there.
John S.
Ah, being contrary in the true spirit of oneupsmanship.
How noble of you, Mac.
John S.
Misidentify?
Hey, I was trying to pay you a compliment. I mean, it’s not everyday that someone provides as thorough and comprehensive of a lesson as you have on the subject of logical fallacies.
Why, it was just the other day that I recall you accusing Ben Franklin of being a chickenhawk (even though he served in the Continental army)…
Good times, man.
Pb
Man, this is like reading tea-leaves.
Ok. So… no Goldstein pile-ons.
So… it’s not a general policy? It is loyalty?
So… no Kos pile-ons?
T
National Socialism supported free health care, gun control, centralized economic planning, the State as the primary solution to social and economic problems, progressive reordering of society, and the overthrow of democratic and republican processes to ensure social justice.
Modern Leftism also supports these things.
American conservativism and libertarian do not support these things.
Far leftists (Stalinists) also labeled Trotskyist communists and social democrats as “far right fascists” – so clearly “fascist” in leftie speak means anyone to the right of Stalin.
Posting propaganda obviously written by far leftists does not invalidate a logical argument.
kaiserD
“I know I am repeating myself, but if you don’t want any Goldstein bashing then don’t write about him. It is pretty obvious, to me at least, that your ‘don’t bash Goldstein” warnings will never work.”
actually, the post was about Deb Frisch, which happens to be a very interesting subject for the blogosphere in general, regardless of political affiliation. more specifically, it was about the latest developments in situation. which had nothing to do with Goldstein. it’s the unsubstantial haters who constantly want to make it about him.
kaiserD
of her situation.
Defense Guy
Yeah, mistakes are made on occasion. I remember batting around .500 on that subject. In any case, the chickenhawk argument is one of the more shallow ways to try to get someone to shut up about the subject of war. I suspect you know this.
Of course if you are trying to assert you are infallible, perhaps you should consider starting a church?
Andrew
Man, these guys are a riot. T and kaiserD make Darrell look like Stephen Hawking. Intellectually, I mean.
Pb
Not this crap again.
Blue Neponset
If they are so unsubstantial why do you spend so much time attacking them?
Also, it has been shown time and again that, here and elsewhere that any story that has anything at all to do with Jeff Goldstein quickly devolves into a flame war/bashfest about Jeff Goldstein. If you want to claim that Deb Frisch’s 15 minutes of fame on the blogosphere have nothing to do with Jeff Goldstein then I just plain don’t agree with you.
Pb
Andrew,
Sad but true. I’m actually appreciating and enjoying my fruitless debate with Darrell (over in [one of] the Iraq thread[s]) more because of it. And I fully realize just how pathetic that is.
kaiserD
that’s awesome, Andrew. i guess that would make you look like Stephen Hawking’s wet-nurse. intellectually, I mean.
kaiserD
“If you want to claim that Deb Frisch’s 15 minutes of fame on the blogosphere have nothing to do with Jeff Goldstein then I just plain don’t agree with you.”
i’m not claiming that. i was talking about Mr. Cole’s post. and the recent developments involving Deb.
Mac Buckets
Plus, they wanted gay marriage… and the death of Terri Schiavo!
Pooh
Jeezus John, just announce your new “comment policy”, close comments on that thread and be done with it – it’s like we’re on an infinite inanity feedback loop here.
The Other Steve
Ahh, well I may have started that. After some guy responded to Cole’s post with a strawman argument. That is, taking what Cole said throwing out the window and substituting in a new argument that was much easier to refute.
The other one, the non-sequitor about the neocons and the jews. I wasn’t sure if that was a strawman, or if it was just the insane rantings of a Bush-lover.
I’m afraid your friends brought that one up. Accusing everybody who disliked Goldstein of being both a Nazi and a Communist at the same time. I actually thought that was quite funny, especially some of the responses.
The Other Steve
Actually the economic planning the Nazi’s supported is more akin to the economic policies of the modern Republican party.
Leftists tend to be more Liberal in their economic views, prefering free market competition than using the state to protect and prop up industries.
The Other Steve
Why do you hate us so, KaiserD?
What did we ever do to you?
kaiserD
nothing but love coming from me, OS. 24-7. the real question is, why do you love Deb so much? what did she ever do to YOU? inquiring minds want to know…
Defense Guy
Ok, you’re just fucking with me on this.
kaiserD
“Ok, you’re just fucking with me on this.”
yeah, he’s rather confused on the subject.
John S.
Hell no, DG.
I make mistakes just like everyone else does. I was just giving you a hard time. What I also remember is some very good discussions we had that were very amicable and allowed us to reach common ground, despite our ideological differences.
Why did you stop posting here, anyway?
chopper
national socialism also supported property rights for those who agree with the government, support of one specific race and religion to the detriment of others, no rights corresponding to the 4th-6th amendments, exreme nationalism, statism and perpetual war.
Modern conservatism also supports these things.
T
“Modern conservatism also supports these things.”
This is a lie. You are being dishonest, because you are uncomfortable with your own political positions, which you secretly realize are akin to national socialism.
John S.
The only similarity between the modern GOP and Hitler’s Nazi party is that they are on the same side of the political spectrum. As such, naturally they share a few common ideologies. This is a FAR cry from stating that they are one in the same, and any insinuation to that effect is poppycock.
I don’t interpret your statement as thus, chopper, but I just wanted to interject my take on things before a throng of right-wingers start screaming about people calling them Nazis.
T
“Leftists tend to be more Liberal in their economic views, prefering free market competition than using the state to protect and prop up industries.”
Another lie. Conseravativsm and libertarianism support free markets. The failure of (certain) Republicans in following these principles, i.e. their ACTING like leftists, are not applicable to my main point.
kaiserD
Chopper does sound like a Nazi. and a Communist. essentially, no difference. Nazi-sounding alias, too…
nyrev
This is a lie. You are being dishonest because you are uncomfortable with your own political positions, which you secretly realize are akin to both national socialism and fascism.
(But don’t pay that any mind. Just stick your fingers in your ears and keep telling yourself that Democrats oppose illegal wiretapping because they hate your freedom.)
chopper
whatever you want to believe. modern conservatism totally isn’t all about ‘america being a christian country’ or ‘war all the time’ or ‘warrantless wiretaps == teh awesome!’ or extreme nationalism. whatever it takes to believe that your political enemies are ‘nazis’ and you are just pure goodness.
Perry Como
No true Scotsman…
chopper
libertarians, i’ll give you that. conservatives, no way. unless you think massive corporate subsidies is part of free-marketism, which is most certainly is not.
chopper
yes, hence my undying support of israel. cause i’m a nazi. you totally caught me.
kaiserD
“yes, hence my undying support of israel. cause i’m a nazi. you totally caught me.”
well, your stupid 8th-grade appraisal of “modern conservatism” warranted that.
Defense Guy
It got tiring having so many here think of me as evil incarnate over bullshit political differences. It was making me angrier and more frustrated than I needed to be
nyrev
Damn! The braintrust blew chopper’s cover. It was good while it lasted though, eh, chopper? Or should I say ja, Herr Chopper Von Swastika-pants?
Pb
So how does this work again–if I invoke Godwin’s Law, will they magically disappear?
kaiserD
ja? Jah? One Love?
kaiserD
oh, Pb, we love it when you start getting pseudo-intellectual again. it’s so damn cute. btw, have you ever referred to our president as BushHitler? or do you support people who do? i’m sure you have, you little hypocritical rapscallion…
Davebo
So it’s only the current crop of Republicans that are averse to free markets?
Let me give you some examples.
Currently Democrats want to allow free markets to work by letting Medicare negotiate discounts on prescription drugs. Name one Republican office holder at the federal level that agrees with them?
Back in a second with more examples.
anonymous
Better now, Mr Cole?
You will of course protect your gentle readers from what you perceive to be a commenter suffering from GDS, but maybe you could do this for me ….
explain to the kids that they are comparing the Republican Party with the wrong example of fascism. Perhaps you could show them that the corporatist views of Mussolini correspond much more closely to the American Right’s policiesthan do the policies of the German Nazi party.
Feel free to throw in a review of Prescott Bush & his cohorts and their support of Fascism in the 30s & during the war years.
Alright then … deep breath… and … Delete.
nyrev
One heart.
Davebo
Does anyone think that no bid cost plus contracts are a part of free market theory?
Of course both sides have been guilty, take for example the truly idiotic ethanol subsidies. But that will be with us for as long as Iowa is an early primary state.
Pb
kaiserD,
Even that would be more intellect than I’ve heretofore seen expressed in your postings here.
No. Who the hell does that, anyhow? Have you ever referred to Bill Clinton’s wife as ‘Hitlery’?
What is this bullshit? Support? Provide aid and comfort? Fund? Did I donate to the ‘BushHitler Foundation’? Pfft.
That’s because you’re dishonest *and* delusional. I guess you weren’t kidding about that liquid LSD!
Davebo
Tarrifs to protect the US steel industry anyone?
kaiserD
actually, nothing can be LESS intellectual than pseudo-intellectual- i think that’s where your problem may lie.
you’re a shallow hypocrite. and you don’t even need the LSD to reveal your dishonesty and delusions….
The Other Steve
That’s the difference between myself and moonbat conservatives.
I know when I’m not being serious.
Davebo
I’ve got to admit, shallow hypocrite is better than ignorant twat
So yes, our children is learning.
The Other Steve
You know, if Republicans could learn to understand that we’re all Americans, we share common values and want the same things, our only difference is how we go about implementing those things. We’d probably get along great.
But you’ve got your buddies there… T, Darleen, Kaiser and so on calling us everything from Nazis to Commies, and you wonder why the tone of the dialog becomes rather bitter?
Pb
kaiserD,
Would you care to back up your slurs, or are you just talking out of your ass again?
anonymous
The specific examples certainly help to make the case, but adding them together should clearly reveal the fact of the matter:
Both the Republican and Democrat parties in the U.S. (that is, the Right and the Center-Right parties) have long ago committed themselves to the partnership of the Corporate World and the Governing Elite, to the exclusion of “the people.”
In large part, this has been accomplished. And it is Corporatism/Fascism.
Where the confusion arises, I think, is not separating plain old Authoritarian/Totalitarian Control from Nazism/Fascism. Obviously, there is an element of social control in Fascism, but that is not the main objective of the -ism.
The objective is economic control, and securing a favored place for a corporate and ‘intellectual’ elite. There is room for a small management class to prosper as servants of the elite. As for everyone else, behave yourselves, eat your gruel, and don’t bother the boss.
kaiserD
how is shallow hypocrite better than ignorant twat? does the word twat make you squeamish, Davebo? are you rendered uncomfortable by the sound of the word “vagina”, or perhaps the sight of one? how childish…
kaiserD
just responding to your slurs,pb. perhaps you should back them up first, and i’ll follow suit…
and quit sniffing around my ass. sicko.
Pb
kaiserD,
*He’s* childish? And *I’m* the shallow hypocrite? My god, talk about projection. How do they find people like this?
anonymous
kaiserD:
Apparently, you didn’t get the memo.
It is my understanding that personal attacks will no longer be tolerated
hereabouts.
kaiserD
yeah, that’s it. the hopelessly tired “projection” response. pseudo-intellect.
Pb
kaiserD,
The only thing hopelessly tired around here is your presence–that’s the quickest I’ve ever seen anyone wear out their welcome. Instant cesspool, just add kaiserD.
Davebo
OK Dougj, out of the pool!
Krista
Hey! I could handle being called a twat, but I take umbrage at the “self-righteous” dig.
Oh, and John? It was a “dishonest fucking bitch”. This is Darrell, so he had to accuse me of dishonesty, just because I was disagreeing with him. And I didn’t point it out to you because, 1. I’m not a tattletale, and 2. much to some people’s amazement (and Pooh’s utter glee), I managed to hold my own in that little contre-temps.
Richard 23
Gee, can’t we all just get along?
kaiserD
oh? i created this cesspool? more hypocrisy (or dishonesty) from you, pb. you can dish, just can’t take it, eh?
Davebo
Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Colorado.
And no, it’s not from the Onion
Davebo
By the way, that last one was from Reason’s Hit and Run blog.
Ironically Colorado has actually made it illegal for teachers to fly the Colorado state flag in class.
chopper
right, like the ‘nazis==liberalism’ analysis i was resonding to was soooo brilliant.
chopper
Or should I say ja, Herr Chopper Von Swastika-pants?
dude, you’re blowing my cover. and i got rid of those pants long ago. damn bell-bottoms…
tBone
Gee, I wonder what blog kaiser came to us from? Hard to tell.
anonymous
The one constant I have found in comments sections of right-wing blogs
has been sexual remarks. Of course, it is with the usual Xtian-Conservative
confusion of sex and violence.
References to homosexual acts with an inference of violent domination
appears to be the clear favorite for brilliant refutation of any serious
argument.
Richard 23
Staci:
:: raises hand ::
Sorry, that was me. It was a little thing called a joke. You didn’t refer to a website and it was unclear who “we” was. You and your imaginary friend? Were you referring to Jeff’s bipartisan site? I had no idea.
I apologize. I thought it was funny. I blame Southpark. ;-)
Evilbeard
Is Jeff Goldstein the only one who holds such a protected coddled position here at Balloon Juice?
Personally, I think it’s lame to forbid behavior towards one particular person but allow it towards others. If the behavior is wrong aimed at Jeff then it is wrong aimed at anyone. Be consistant.
Sure, it’s your website and you pay the bills but I think it’s total bullshit to make one particular person off-limits because they are a friend of yours. Is this a political blog or a beer, buddies, and dishwashers blog?
If you want to maintain some kind of integrity than don’t allow anyone to be treated the way your pal Jeff was treated.
kaiserD
“Gee, I wonder what blog kaiser came to us from? Hard to tell.”
Instapundit. to find out about the latest in the Deb Frisch saga. not to witness neurotic handwringing and an inordinate fear of being slapped by a cock.
Richard 23
As long as you stick to blogs which don’t allow comments you won’t have to get all stressed out and clutch at your pearls over their content. Have fun at Instapundit and Michelle Malkin.
kaiserD
who said i’m stressed out, Dick? i’m having fun here. thanks!
Andrew
I agree. You all should welcome a good cock slapping. Nothing else says “I’m a conservative who is starring reality right in the face (or cock)” quite like it.
kaiserD
Inordinate means unreasonable, Andrew. i’m just trying to soothe you and help you with your irrational fear of being cock-slapped. it won’t happen on my watch, i promise you kiddo…
anonymous
I don’t know if it’s right to say a “double standard” prevails here,
but earlier Mr Cole did seem quite agitated by the outbreak of
what we may call GDS (Goldstein Derangement Syndrome.)
(By the way, it is not improbable that Mr G is monitoring this thread.
Like the Sisters used to say: Speak of the devil & he appears.)
Krista
Maybe he’s like Beetlejuice…say his name three times and
hehis menagerie appears.Richard 23
I thought that three clicks sent you to Kansas.
kaiserD
“it is not improbable that Mr G is monitoring this thread”
shhhh, anonymous. it’s ok. just click your little heels three times and say, “I’m not getting cock-slapped. I am not getting cock-slapped…”
anonymous
I would never cut in line, kaiser; I’m sure you haven’t been defending the master for the past 24 hours just to let some no-name like myself have the honor
of the first cock-slap.
Dustbin Of History
*raises hand*
Yeah, I kinda helped queer the thread. Well, after the PW invasion queered the thread all over, and I felt like I had to come help play cleanup. That didn’t quite work out as well as I had hoped, but it sure felt good. Heck, I got the POTD out of Darleen too.
But anyways, anti-queering measures will be appreciated here. I can dig less flaming and more discussion.
kaiserD
“I would never cut in line, kaiser; I’m sure you haven’t been defending the master for the past 24 hours just to let some no-name like myself have the honor
of the first cock-slap.”
jeez, anonymous, i’m beginning to think that you actually want to be cock-slapped. i keep reassuring you that it won’t happen, yet you insist it will. well, you’re not getting it from me. nor “the master”, i’m pretty sure.
kaiserD
“But anyways, anti-queering measures will be appreciated here. I can dig less flaming and more discussion.”
i’m all for that.
anonymous
As I pointed out earlier, the default move for these right-wing commenters
seems always to be homosexual acts with an overtone of violence and
humiliation.
You see, kaiser, I made a comment to amuse myself, hoping others might be
entertained by it. I certainly wasn’t inviting your amateur psychoanalysis, any
more than I enjoy your amateur political analysis.
anonymous
To put it more simply, for the cognitively-impaired:
If you want to talk politics, let’s do that.
If you want to talk about your sexual fantasies and dysfunction,
maybe you should find another venue.
kaiserD
ok, sure, but it seems my amateur psychoanalysis is really starting to get to you. but not in a positive way, i’m afraid, as is my intent. you’re the one who seems to be obsessed with homosexual acts and violence. and if you’re ammused by the formulation that it’s “the default move for these right-wing commenters”, then perhaps you need professional help.
kaiserD
sure, let’s talk politics. just keep your irrational fears to yourself.
anonymous
I am absolutely sure that in your fevered imagination your brilliant gibes
“get to” all those you perceive to be “the enemy” (which I suppose, at
this point, is most of the human race.)
Now, why don’t you say something of interest on a subject other than your
DM Mr Goldstein and his magic member. Go ahead; I’m sure we all can’t
wait to be dazzled.
kaiserD
jeez, still obsessed with that huh? why don’t you begin something without referencing JG and/or your fear of him cockslapping you.
Joe Albanese
Pathetic
anonymous
kaiser, please, the only reason you are here is to defend “he who may not be named.” Other than that, it is obvious you have nothing to say.
Go ahead: prove me wrong. Say something brilliant.
kaiserD
and the only reason you’re here is to rip on him. i didn’t come here to defend him. i came here to allay your fears, to end your obsession with Goldstein…
anonymous
Once more, with feeling:
Neither the good Dr. Frisch nor the not-quite-Dr. Goldstein is worth
another minute’s attention from any of us.
Now, quit stalling …. and say something brilliant or witty on an
entirely different subject.
kaiserD
jeez, don’t put me on the spot like this! you first!
(and there you go again, gotta get another gibe in on JG…)
anonymous
sweetjesusonastick, how much are you getting paid for this?
Really, you’ve got to try to move on.
A new day. A new subject. Go for it.
Free yourself.
anonymous
Time’s up.
But thanks for playing.
Tell him what he’s won, John ….
kaiserD
hey, don’t forget, before you leave…Juan Cole IS an antisemite! it’s pretty freakin’ obvious…But Goldstein, as far as i know, is not. he’s over at Protein Wisdom.
Darrell
Krista, for not being a “tattletail” you’ve brought up that exchange at least 2 or 3 times before, each time omitting your expletive laden post which provoked my response. Dishonest and deceitful on your part? Draw your own conclusions
kaiserD
goddamn, finally, Darrell. i gotsta to get home! here’s the baton, run with it…
Darrell
Krista, please bring it to John’s attention IN FULL CONTEXT, including your expletive laden rant aimed at me, so that he can see for himself how dishonest you truly are.
Krista
Feel free to quote my expletive laden post, then. Go nuts. Nobody’s stopping you.
Richard 23
Darrell’s a punk? ;-)
Darrell
It would take an hour to find it. You know damn well what you said. But you’re too fucking deceitful, so you throw out-of-context responses to smear me. Do you seriously consider yourself to be an honest person? you’re not
nyrev
Krista hit a nerve, so, in the manner of weak, impotent men throughout history, Darrell called her a bitch?
Darrell
Hey, take your shots.. What bothers me is taking my response to her expletive laden insults at me in isolation. Then when JohnC comments about it, she doesn’t have the decency or honestly to mention what she said to provoke the response.
nyrev
Hell, I’ll post the link.
It goes to your charming post, but Krista’s is a few posts above it. It’ll probaly take you hours to read all those pesky words, so I’ll summarize. She said you were a fucking dishonest coward, which you are. You’re also plagiarist, and if your IQ’s higher than 80 you certainly have never proven it with your posts here. You retaliated, dear Senator, by calling her a fucking bitch, which she’s not, but it seemed to give you a tiny little woody to get away with it, and you’ve whined ever since that her calling you a coward gives you every right to call her a bitch in return.
That about sum it up for you, jackass?
Krista
Actually, I don’t remember what I said. I don’t doubt that I did curse at you, though. And as far as smearing you, I don’t think that’s really an issue. People on this site abhorred you long before I came here, and they’ll continue to do so long after I leave here. You seem quite obsessed with whether or not people are “honest”, but make no allowance for people having a different opinion (or a different recollection of events) than you. Go around and call people “dishonest” all you want, Darrell. It doesn’t make you right, and it doesn’t make you any less repugnant.
Krista
Thanks nyrev. I do remember calling him a coward now. It was because we were talking about gay marriage. I made a generalized comment about how some people are just plain afraid of change, and it makes them angry because they don’t know how to deal with it, so they lash out. Darrell used that as an example of how “self-righteous lefists embrace your ignorant caricatures of the other side.” I indicated that my post was in no way partisan, and asked him to retract his comment. He refused to do so…repeatedly, so I called him a dishonest fucking coward. Right.
Darrell, did you want me to email that to John directly, so that he can see how I was picking on poor widdle you?
Darrell
Not quite. I looked upthread to see that you were the asshole who posted my comment out of context to smear me, you dishonest sack of shit. Krista, not to her credit, didn’t bother to explain when JCole questioned it.
Darrell
Thanks nyrev, for dishonestly taking my comment out of context? And it was “fucking” coward was the word you used Krista to be clear.. you’re still being deceitful about it, even when the citation was provided.
nyrev
Darrell seems to be under the misunderstanding that the use of the word “fucking” as an adjective is the offensive part of his behavior. If he’d called Krista a fucking liberal, we’d have all lauded his brilliant deduction. If he’d called her a fucking liar, that would have been as singularly easy to disprove as all the other times Darrell has equated “liar” with “anyone who disagrees with me.” Similarly, I doubt John would have reprimanded Andrei for calling Stormy a ditz who couldn’t find a clue if it were underneath the tv remote control. But if John’s going to draw the line at calling people stupid cunts, then I’d really like to know why calling them fucking bitches wouldn’t be off limits as well.
Darrell
You see, you loons are hateful and dishonest to the core, so nyrev makes a dishonest as hell comparison to Andrei calling Stormy a “cunt” unprovoked, comparing it to my response to Krista. Admittedly not one of my better moments, but the dishonesty of nyrev to try and get away with taking comments out of context is typical of leftist vermin. No honor. And Krista is praising him for what he did.
nyrev
Actually, it was fucking dishonest coward, Darrell, and you still are one. Obviously the special ed teacher was going to get to Ethics right after he got to Reading and never made it to either one. What’s the matter? Waste too much time learning to count to 10?
Darrell
How could one hope to recover from such a witty riposte? You’re killing me nyrev
Krista
Darrell,
Krista is praising nyrev for having the patience to actually go back and find that thread. Relax. God, your blood pressure must just be through the roof with all the anger you have.
Oh, and you missed my quote from later that day:
That still stands. I actually didn’t take offense. I wouldn’t have dished it out if I wasn’t able to take it. Feel free to think of me as a dishonest fucking bitch all you want, because I’ll still think of you as a dishonest fucking coward. Deal? (But we probably shouldn’t use language like that anymore — we might get banned, and then what would the fun be in that?)
Richard 23
“Arab lies.”
Hahahaha!
Vermin? Charming. Your honor knows no bounds.
I’m glad you put that in the correct context.
nyrev
Actually, I didn’t bring it up out of context. I emailed John about it back in June and linked the whole fucking thread, which is why I brought the double standard up again today in the first place. Also, I’m still a woman, you illiterate goon. Got a few more derogatory sexist terms up your sleeve? Or you could just continue to throw various versions of your “special” definition of dishonest at me. Go ahead! You haven’t used “lying poopyhead who linked the relevent discussion in this thread so everyone could see what an idiot I am” yet.
Darrell
Did I direct any derogatory sexist insults in your direction? No? Well then, we can certainly see the righteousness of all your anger then.
Darrell
Just curious, did you email John supporting his ban on Andrei for calling Stormy a “cunt”? Or was that ok, because she’s a Karl Rove loving Bush fellator?
Darrell
The hell you didn’t. You did so in this very thread… dishonest as hell.
anonymous
Personally, I think the expression “Karl Rove loving Bush fellator”
is much more creative and amusing than plain old “cunt.”
nyrev
Yes, actually, I did. I was pro-ban once it was established that Andrei did call Stormy a c#nt and was refusing to apologize for it. (John deleted the relevent post before I saw it.)
nyrev
You actually don’t know what “in context” means, do you Darrell? That explains so much about your debating style.
Krista
And once again, a thread hits a new low…
anonymous
I think it can go lower (considering the quality of the past 24 hours.)
nyrev
Say, did anyone else notice that the Senator stopped shrieking about how his name would be cleared if only we had Krista’s original post as context as soon as I handed him the context and it turned out he was still a jackass? Now, all of a sudden, it’s my fault for bringing it up in the first place.
Reid
Earlier today, I left a comment telling John that he shouldn’t hestiate to shut down comments completely, if that’s what it took to chill things out.
Since then, nearly 200 comments have been added that do little but offer prime evidence that’s exactly what he should do.
Frankly, some of you people turn his site into a cesspool. Why the hell should anyone want to host the low brow bicker fest this thread has become? And I haven’t even seen the 40 or more comments he deleted.
Darrell
Yes nyrev, ‘all of a sudden’ everything changed. Is that your new ‘interpretation’ of events? You posted a quote of mine, without context in isolation – context would have included Krista’s “fucking” coward post to which my post/insult responded. You’re an obsessed loon nyrev, do you know that? No surprise you’re a dishonest filthy liberal.
anonymous
Perhaps Mr Cole should consider a ‘pay-per-view’ fee for the suppressed, now legendary 40 deleted comments. If only to defray the costs of the expanded
band width.
anonymous
(Hardly an unbiased opinion, but I think mine were the best.)
Darrell
Now that is a good idea. I’m still waiting to read the deleted BJ comments from a few months back where culturally diverse tolerant liberals were allegedly calling Michelle Malkin a “dirty brown Filipina fucking machine” and similar type insults.
anonymous
“… dirty brown Phillipina fucking machine…”
“… Rove-loving Bush fellator …”
If nothing else, you’ve got to admit that the English language
is a very versatile language.
Take note, Darrell… I know, with a little time and effort, you can do better than
“dishonest filthy liberal.”
nyrev
Oh, Darrell! You’re such any amusing little man. That’s right, I stealthily withheld the context from everyone, which is why I’m the one who posted it upthread and quoted the part where Krista called you a fucking dishonest coward (continuing to ignore the ‘dishonest’ part of that allegation is probably a good move on your part since you couldn’t possibly refute it) so you wouldn’t have to spend the ‘hours and hours’ finding it yourself.
You’d better stick to name-calling, Darrell. Your repertoire is limited, but you stop making sense entirely when you try to string together a coherent argument.
Darrell
you didn’t quote what Krista said until I pointed out that you had dishonestly quoted me out of context. Only then, did you produce the remainder. You didn’t quote me in context earlier, because that would have seriously diluted the point you were trying to make.
like these gems of brilliance?
Ouch, nyrev! I better go put ice on that spanking you gave me earlier with your stinging wit
nyrev
Heh. You wish. No woman would willingly touch your ass.
Only in your special mind, Darrell. Only in your special mind.
Pb
anonymous,
Or, here’s a movie quote: “Goddamn dipshit Rodriguez gypsy dildo punks”.
nyrev
Repo Man’s got all night, every night, Pb.
anonymous
Pardon me, which fuckwit are you addressing ? (if I may ask …
after all, we have so many to choose from here.)
Pb
nyrev,
Good catch. :)
Richard 23
another movie quote:
“Start with strawberries, you might work your way up to these goddamn bananas! When, boy? When…are you going to get your act together?”
…
“I think he’s the Antichrist. Anthony, I want to talk to you. Now, listen! Don’t walk away from me when I’m talking to you! You get a goddamn job before sundown, or we’re shipping you off to military school with that goddamn Finkelstein shit kid! Son of a bitch!”
Richard 23
Apologies to Reid, the concern troll.
Temple Stark
It’s petulant posts like this that paint you as a particularly putrid pussy.
God, …. Like the site most every other time – except, I guess when you’re PMSing.
Face
I’d comment, but I’m being moderated. So I’d have to say that John Cole is a God.
Richard 23
A petulant pussy? Jeepers, are you trying to get banned? Sorry. Puturid pussy. What a horrible thing to say.
Richard 23
Sorry, I can’t even spell putrid.
chopper
i love it when corky calls us all assholes in one breath, complains about us insulting him in the next, then excuses his own language in the next one.
it’s like the trifecta of stupid.
Bombadil
If JC were serious about his cleaning up of the comments section, there are dozens here that would be gone, starting with (but certainly not limited to) all of Darrell’s posts.
But I suspect he’s just as serious about this as he was about clearing his blog roll of anyone who didn’t take The Pledge — that is, not serious at all.
John S.
Oh, but he is.
Every comment I make now automatically goes into moderation, because you know, I have a tendency to write such filthy things.
Unlike Darrell, whose gentlemanly and eloquent posts sail right on through the first time without so much as a glance.
Temple Stark
Sorry ?i was pretty much aliteratively joking, playing off the first couple of posts. A weak moment of whimsy. And I had not finished reading the devolution of this thread.
Whoever said it upthread has it right though – John should just shut up and close comments on a particular post and ban people who’s ONLY contribution is to bring it down into the ugly.
Though I wish for more comments at my site, i would be embarrased to host this thread and would have turned comments off this thread as soon as it sounded like a South Park episode. So haivng finished this thread, I have a little bit more *sympathy* for Mr. Cole. But he still comes off as petulant etc etc.
Bombadil
That’s exactly what I mean. If he was really serious….
fivor
I didn’t even get to moderation. Now Mr./Prof. Cole has my email.
All I wanted to do was apologize for bringing Darleen on in force.
I have commented on this blog maybe two times.
Oh well.
fivor
Now for the moderation.
I’m certain Darleen didn’t get this treatment the other night, no matter the falsities she posted and will now be able to point to for sources.