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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Stupidity Wears You Down

The Stupidity Wears You Down

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Ron DeSantis:

CNN — Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis publicly downplayed New York’s role in providing his state with shipments of an antiviral drug to help combat the coronavirus pandemic after a staffer in The Sunshine State’s health department had privately praised the assistance, CNN has learned.

Speaking to reporters last Thursday, DeSantis pointedly denied that New York was helping his state’s Covid-19 response, stating, “They’re not helping us.”

“I think that someone reached out to our office about ventilators — we got 6,000 just sitting idle, so we don’t need it,” the governor added. “We are working with the federal government on some of the Remdesivir.”

But a set of emails first reported by Politco and later reviewed by CNN shows New York’s offer to send remdesivir to Florida had been well received before DeSantis dismissed the state’s role in securing shipments of the drug.

A 30-year-old in Texas:

A 30-year-old patient died after attending a “Covid party”, believing the virus to be a hoax, a Texas medical official has said.

“Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” said Dr Jane Appleby, the chief medical officer at Methodist hospital in San Antonio.

Appleby said: “I don’t want to be an alarmist, and we’re just trying to share some real-world examples to help our community realise that this virus is very serious and can spread easily.”

A “Covid party” is a gathering held by somebody diagnosed with coronavirus to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected, she explained.

I read the story about the young woman who died to my wife this weekend and she thought it was made up, until I pointed out where it was reported and who was quoted. Even in a seemingly endless sea of stupidity, some things still seem unbelievably dumb.

Here’s something that isn’t stupid, the latest from the Lincoln Project:

Another thing that isn’t stupid is the fundraiser DougJ put up for Dan Ahlers, who’s running against Mike Rounds in the South Dakota senate race. Rounds is a decently liked down-the-line Republican who would normally sail to re-election. When I see the kinds of numbers that Democratic challengers for Senate seats are pulling down this cycle, and looking at the disaster that is shaping up for Republicans, I think it’s smart to make sure that challengers to supposedly safe seats at least have enough money to put up a fight. Ahlers has raised $52K compared to $3.5 million by Rounds. If he had, say $152K, or $520K, he could at least have name recognition in a race that could be winnable if all hell breaks loose.

Reader Interactions

240Comments

  1. 1.

    Betty Cracker

    Unfortunately, Florida has no provision for recalling governors, so we’re stuck with DeVirus until 2022.

  3. 3.

    cmorenc

    How much actual exposure do the Lincoln Project ads get with the wider electorate – and not just among the progressive-leaning political junkies like us who like the music, but we were already in the choir. Are the ads being placed where they can likely reach the sorts of voters who might need a bit of prodding to actually turn out to help vote Trump out of office, and not merely those among us who already would gladly crawl over broken glass and through razor wire to cast our votes?

  5. 5.

    Jerzy Russian

    So this person discovered the virus was real.  I am curious to know what the next step in the “investigation” was to be?  Write a report?

  6. 6.

    JR

    @cmorenc: The ads are placed with the purpose of antagonizing Trump. I think that’s pretty much the beginning and end of it. And it’s clear that Trump sees and responds to these ads, even though he really should be smart enough to avoid them.

  7. 7.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    @cmorenc:

    How much actual exposure do the Lincoln Project ads get with the wider electorate – and not just among the progressive-leaning political junkies like us who like the music, but we were already in the choir.

    Here’s an older article from OpenSecrets that casts some doubt on how much they’re spending:

    opensecrets.org/news/2020/05/lincoln-project-capitalizes-on-trump-rage/

    I wouldn’t give them a cent, but I like the ads, and clever ads get shared and might sway the non-broken-glass crowd.

  8. 8.

    Just Chuck

    @JR:he really should be smart enough

    I think we can leave it there as something none of us should hold our breath for.  Actually I can think of a lot of people who should hold their breath that long…

  11. 11.

    Ken

    @JR: he really should be smart enough to avoid them

    Avoiding them would mean giving up “executive time”, or whatever his staff calls it when he’s watching TV six hours a day.

    What does somewhat surprise me is that he hasn’t lashed out at Fox for running the ads.

  12. 12.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Adam-Troy Castro explains what the New Normal will be. It ain’t pretty.

    1) This pandemic is permanent.

    2) It is permanent because there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. It is permanent because it is airborne. It is permanent because immunity due to prior infection is lost within six to eight months.

    3) No country will succeed in wiping it out except with extreme quarantine, to allow it to die out without further infection. As it seems several countries have. As our country refuses to. And it will get harder, not easier, the more we refuse to address it.

    4) While it remains a thing, places that have managed to shut the epidemic down, like New Zealand and Scotland, will become very unwelcoming to visitors. This will remain permanent for our country that still has active cases.

    4a) This will also apply to parts of the country that have managed to shut the epidemic down. They will not want visitors from parts of the country that continue to do idiot things like open up theme parks while the infection rate is still rising. The days of being able to fly to distant cities or to travel cross country on a whim are, in the United States, in twilight. I have likely visited my mother for the last time, for as long as hopping a flight up north is a sociopathic act.

    5) Americans, currently unwelcome in almost every country in the world, will remain so for as long as we insist on our God-given right to make each other sick. This will have a permanent effect on our economy.

    6) Because we will keep re-infecting one another ad infinitum, health as we understand it will become a thing of the past. People who were sick will become sick again. People who don’t die from it will suffer a raft of physical impairments, and this will get worse and worse as “alive but impaired from COVID” becomes the new normal, for most people. The denialism will continue.

    7) Americans will resent being barred from the rest of the world and will turn their gaze inward. The opinions of the world will matter less to us, not more. Trumpian foreign policy may take a break, without Trump, but it will come back, without Trump. This will hasten our fall as a relevant superpower. We’ll continue to have Nukes, but that’s all we’ll have.

    8) Everything will continue to falter. Education. Art. Culture. The socialization of our children. The economy. Infrastructure. Unless and until we wake up and shut down, this time long enough the job to be done. Which we won’t.

    9) The domino effect on our health care system will cause a further drop in our life expectancy. And again, this can be stopped, but not while 40 percent of the nation thinks Happy Hour and the ball pit at McDonald’s in more important.

    10) This does not go away.

  13. 13.

    cmorenc

    @Just Chuck:

    @Patricia Kayden: They need to run it on the front page and headline it with the biggest font they have.   We need newspapers all across the country to do this.

    This close to the election, the perverse result of a Trump resignation would be to give the GOP, who has supported this monster, a chance for a reset to fraudulently distance themselves from him and significantly reduce the % of them who would otherwise be swept out of office along with him in a strong “blue wave” election.  Pence is a monster himself, but one with much better manners and presentation, and wouldn’t motivate quite so large a portion of the electorate to turn out to vote against him, even though Biden would still be favored against Pence instead.

    The best way to begin uprooting Trump and Trump-ism is by sending him and the GOP to a calamitous defeat in November at the hands of the voting public.  Granted that due to different timing, ejection by election wasn’t an option for the nearest precedent in US history, the resignation of Richard Nixon.

  14. 14.

    low-tech cyclist

    They say that yelling “fire!” in a crowded theater is beyond the bounds of free speech.

    How is it not far worse for wingnut media to spread lies about the coronavirus that make people believe it’s a hoax?

    (To paraphrase the late Abbie Hoffman, they’re yelling “crisis theater!” in a crowded fire. And people are getting burned on their account.)

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    I wouldn’t give the Lincoln Project one red cent either, but they troll Trump effectively to amplify their reach to mainstream audiences via the media. Their “Mourning in America” ad prompted Trump to have such an epic Twitter meltdown that evening newscasts and cable news played the ad to explain Trump’s hissy fit. That’s valuable.

    For direct voter outreach, Republican Voters Against Trump, founded by creeps like Bill Kristol and Mike Murphy, is probably a better vector. That outfits says it will spend millions in swing states on ads that are testimonials from former Trump voters saying why they won’t for Trump this time and are supporting Biden instead. I’ve seen a few of the ads on social media.

    I’m not the target audience, obviously, but the ads seem pretty persuasive to me. You have to give people a permission structure to make a break from something that’s a core part of their identity. Even stupid people. Maybe especially stupid people. Those ads might help, so godspeed Kristol, you piece of shit…

  18. 18.

    different-church-lady

    Frequently when I want to know if a grenade is still active, I hold “pull-the-pin” parties.

  19. 19.

    low-tech cyclist

    @cmorenc: Anybody think he might actually resign, no matter how many people call for him to do it?

    He’s not the intended audience of calls for his resignation; it’s the public at large.  The goal is to (a) make it a generally accepted fact, outside of the hardcore 35% or so, that he has no business being President, and (b) make the point that having won a Presidential election doesn’t entitle you to kill off hundreds of thousands of Americans.

    Just shrugging and letting the deaths continue, IMHO, sets a precedent for the notion that a President IS entitled to do that, by virtue of having been elected.  That’s one hell of a dangerous precedent.

  22. 22.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the O’Bros argue that PL ads are aimed at a small demographic over-represented in the political media: college-educated, fairly affluent, older, whiter and who follow politics closely… I don’t know if they have numbers on that, but they say those ads are unlikely to motivate the voters Biden needs to turn out

    ETA: Ted Cruz cares not for your communist rules!

    Hosseh @hossehenad
    Captured today at 10:45am — @TedCruz on a commercial flight, refusing to wear a mask.

  24. 24.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    @Betty Cracker:

    You have to give people a permission structure to make a break from something that’s a core part of their identity. Even stupid people. Maybe especially stupid people.

    I watched part of the Lincoln Project Zoom webinar for supporters (I’m not one, it’s recorded on YouTube) and the sole woman in the project (Jennifer Horn) made this point by saying that they aren’t seeking to shame Trump voters, just to get them to go into the ballot booth, close the curtain, and quietly vote for Democrats.

  28. 28.

    p.a.

    A “Covid party” is a gathering held by somebody diagnosed with coronavirus to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected, she explained.

    Should the Darwin Awards rebrand as the tRumptard Awards?

  30. 30.

    Feathers

    One important thing about the Lincoln Project ads is that their audience is not only Trump, but the media. There is a long-standing political truism that a politician can withstand anything except people laughing at them. Because the Lincoln Project ads work so effectively to destroy Trump’s credibility, and the Washington press corps have seen them, and know everyone else has seen them, they are serving to shift the Overton Window. We hope.

  31. 31.

    wvng

    @Betty Cracker: Lincoln has a powerful ad running in Senate swing states on those Senators being complicit and they cannot ever be trusted again. That one induced me to donate.

  32. 32.

    hells littlest angel

    @The Thin Black Duke: Reduce the human population enough, and the virus will go away. For over two hundred years humans have been doing everything we can to bring about our own demise. A viral plague may be the means to our end that does the least destruction to the rest of the planet’s species. Certainly it beats global warming turning us into Venus.

    How’s that for a cheering thought?

  34. 34.

    dmsilev

    @different-church-lady:

    Frequently when I want to know if a grenade is still active, I hold “pull-the-pin” parties.

    “Frequently”? Can I get your opinion on lottery numbers for the next couple of months or so?

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    WTF, independents ?

    Josh Jordan @NumbersMuncher ·51m
    Gallup: 72% of adults wear a mask ‘always’ or ‘very often’ when outside of the home.
    Breakdown by party ID:
    Democrats 94%
    Independents 68%
    Republicans 46%
    27% of Republicans say they *never* wear a mask when outside the house.
    Tribalism in politics is a really dangerous thing.

  37. 37.

    TS (the original)

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis publicly downplayed New York’s role in providing his state with shipments of an antiviral drug to help combat the coronavirus pandemic after a staffer in The Sunshine State’s health department had privately praised the assistance,

    Gov Cuomo is holding another of his info/press sessions today. Wonder if this gets a mention?

    I will be holding a briefing and making an announcement at 11:30am ET. Watch here:t.co/Fq5qEEPt23— Andrew Cuomo (@NYGovCuomo) July 13, 2020

  38. 38.

    Feathers

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, there is a great deal of purity fetish in the backlash. Do I trust them? Until the election, yes. After that? Some will fall back into their old ways, others will become good and loyal new allies.

    Unfortunately, too many people seem to see the rest of the world as either “bestest friend” or “unclean, unclean.”

  39. 39.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Ken:

    What does somewhat surprise me is that he hasn’t lashed out at Fox for running the ads.

    Since he only watches Fux, he probably assumes the ads are everywhere. Hopefully this adds to his pain.

  45. 45.

    different-church-lady

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: See, let’s game this out:

    DEM: 1) wears mask  2) virus proves to be a hoax. RESULT: Dem gets laughed at.

    REPUG: 1) doesn’t wear mask 2) virus proves to be deadly. RESULT: Repug gets interred.

    These… are… just… DUMB… people.

  47. 47.

    patrick II

    Can war crimes be prosecuted when it is fellow citizens you are murdering or is it a requirement the victims be members of a foreign nation?

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not really surprised that so many independents are mask-eschewers because I assume a hefty percentage of them are libertarian douchebags. Interesting that never-maskers boiled down to 27% among Republicans. I’ve seen that number crop up again and again over the past few years, even after the 2016 election caused me to assume the crazification factor had been severely low-balled.

  51. 51.

    Kropacetic

    @Feathers: Unfortunately, too many people seem to see the rest of the world as either “bestest friend” or “unclean, unclean.”

    The fearful, hostile tone of their ads don’t exactly do it for me, but I don’t exactly need to be won over to vote against Trump.  If we’re trying to sway new voters, it’s like to require different sort of arguments/stimuli than the ones that persuaded our existing voters, otherwise we’d already have them.

  52. 52.

    patrick II

    @Betty Cracker:

    The crazification factor was coined in 2005.  We have had 15 more years of FOX and Limbaugh.  It’s a process, it’s not standing still.  It may work its way down again after the virus works its way through Evangelicals when they start having Sunday sing-alongs again.

  53. 53.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @different-church-lady: Fair enough. But it begs the question, does the United States have the collective will to curb stomp the 40% of the idiots in the country keeping the virus alive? No, I don’t get off on doom ‘n’ gloom internet porn and I try to stay optimistic, but there’s nothing wrong with packing a parachute just in case. From what I see, Stupidity and Rationality are fighting to have the last word and right now it’s too close to call.

  54. 54.

    CaseyL

    @hells littlest angel:

    A viral plague may be the means to our end that does the least destruction to the rest of the planet’s species. Certainly it beats global warming turning us into Venus.

    You might get reamed for saying that, so let me say “thank you” for saying it.  I didn’t quite have the nerve, but have been thinking along those lines for quite a while.  Not only the number of humans needs to be reduced, but humanity’s capacity for material consumption.

    It’s exactly like the human species is a virus, and the host body (Earth) keeps trying out new anti-viral methods for getting rid of us.  Since we’re a smart virus, we keep evading them.  Covid-19 might outsmart us: it combines the contagiousness of the common cold (which is, after all, a corona virus) with the lethality of a superflu AND the long-term disabling effects of hepatitis, diabetes, and TB.  Fighting Covid-19 is like playing a deadly game of Whack-A-Mole.

  55. 55.

    Ken

    @Betty Cracker: I assume a hefty percentage of [independents] are libertarian douchebags.

    Some years ago, a lot of “independents” were Republicans who didn’t want to say so. Although I suppose that wouldn’t affect the masking percentage; if you’re an idiot about that, you shouldn’t have any problems with the rest of the party’s stances.

  58. 58.

    Kropacetic

    @Ken: In a lot of polling I see, though IANAS*, it appears like the opinions of independents tracks pretty close to the overall population.  It’s almost as though the same partisan dynamics are in play whether someone is willing to name themselves as a partisan or not.

    *I am not a statistician

  59. 59.

    Just Chuck

    @hells littlest angel: Our atmosphere doesn’t have the composition to turn Earth into Venus even if we pumped all the CO2 and methane we possibly could into it.  It can certainly become hostile to 90+ percent of life on the planet, since that’s happened before.  The tardigrades will shrug it all off as they’ve always done.

  60. 60.

    Kropacetic

    @Just Chuck: Our atmosphere doesn’t have the composition to turn Earth into Venus even if we pumped all the CO2 and methane we possibly could into it.

    Republican party says “challenge accepted.”

  61. 61.

    Betty Cracker

    @patrick II: Great point. Didn’t realize the crazification factor was identified so long ago! Still, it seems to crop up persistently, even now. That could be confirmation bias, or maybe there truly is an irreducible percentage of lunacy in the population.

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    @Kropacetic:

    Not only has it been conceived of, it is a regular topic of discussion.

    I think h.l.a. was asking Betty about DeSantis, not the Murderer-in-Chief. Or has there been a lot of DeSantis-resignation discussion, and I’ve missed it? [Certainly possible, I ain’t here as often as I used to was.]

  64. 64.

    Anya

    @cmorenc: not much but even if they’re getting any exposure, most of their ads are not that effective. They’re for never Trumpers and those of us who already hate Trump.

  65. 65.

    Ken

    @TS (the original): Gov Cuomo is holding another of his info/press sessions today. Wonder if this gets a mention?

    “I had been under the impression that New York was shipping medications to Florida. After Gov. DeSantis’ said this was wrong, I checked with our health team, and found that, indeed, New York will not be shipping any medicine to Florida. I thank Gov. DeSantis for the correction.”

  66. 66.

    Kropacetic

    @SFAW: Oops.  This was all amidst other talk of Trump resigning so I jumped to a sloppy conclusion.

    Nevertheless, the very act of hells littlest angel asking the question implies its conceivability.

  67. 67.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @cmorenc:  The LP ads are for an audience of one, and force errors because of his psychological  derangement.

  69. 69.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Only supports the widely-held belief that many “independents” (looks like ~1/3 here) are Republicans (or at least supporters of much of what within their lifetimes were Republican positions) trying to separate themselves from the worst excesses of the contemporary crazified GOP.

  71. 71.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Ken: The man frequently watches more TV than a 10 year old boy on summer break.

  72. 72.

    A Ghost to Most

    Some people call Florida paradise. I will continue to believe it is an unlivable hellhole, largely run by corrupt cretins. YMMV.

  74. 74.

    patrick II

    The specificity of DeSantis turning down remdesiver from New York seems to add culpability.  There are people dying from Covid in hospitals every day in Florida.  Remdesiver has been shown to save lives in the dire circumstance of end-game Covid.  If he delays a week he will cause the death of Floridians now fighting for their life.

    With school openings, mask-wearing it is tough to point at a specific group of people and say you are going to die.  With end-life Covid in Florida, we could know very specifically the group of people among whom there will be unneeded death.  Traipses close to the policy/knowledgeable-murder line for me.

  76. 76.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Feathers: I think Rubin, Kristol  and Schmidt have made a full transition. Wilson appears to be positioning himself as a middle agenda broker that will likely be super attractive to centrist Ds, which is fine.

  77. 77.

    Hoodie

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe, but a lot of people who call themselves conservatives also like to call themselves independents but generally vote GOP.   Those are probably a lot of the the mask eschewers in the independent column.

    I thinks these polls reflect the amount of public health ignorance out there.  My wife was speaking with one of her cousins in rural Louisiana yesterday, who indicated that she thought all of this was exaggerated, a problem in places like NOLA with lots of black people, and they were proceeding basically as if normal.  This woman is not particularly stupid, but she is not well educated and not the type to closely follow multiple news sources, probably basing most of her opinions on what she hears from people immediately around her and what she sees on Facebook when sharing family pictures and fat- and sugar-laden recipes.  She related some weird conspiracy theories about  the deaths being overstated and attributable to more than one virus, which may have been a distortion of the discussion of multiple strains of SARS-COV2.   As in the past, the biggest enemy is ignorance.

  78. 78.

    Gin & Tonic

    @J.: Wouldn’t that require the Democratic Party of Florida to come up with a viable candidate?

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    @Kropacetic:

    Oops.  This was all amidst other talk of Trump resigning so I jumped to a sloppy conclusion.

    Yeah, I had to re-read it myself. Easy oversight to make.

    Nevertheless, the very act of hells littlest angel asking the question implies its conceivability.

    I think s/he was riffing on Vizzini (who used it incorrectly, of course).

  81. 81.

    cain

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Why is it always 27% – I mean that fuckin number would show up daily during the Bush administration. So we have a roughly 30% loony tunes population on any unpopular opinion.

    There are probably 27% who would cheer a nuclear winter.

  83. 83.

    Fair Economist

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    2) It is permanent because there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

    This is not true. There is a vaccine for MERS, and there is a vaccine for the cow version of human coronavirus OC43. The reason there’s no vaccine for the human common cold viruses is that there’s no great need for it, and a lot of risk for companies in a world where antivaxxer nuts can hound a Lyme disease vaccine off the market.

  84. 84.

    Just Chuck

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I’m going to continue to see Kristol as the guy who always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and can’t shut up about it.  He’s a cynical actor through and through.  So in the spirit of that cynicism, I’ll say he just happens to be useful right now.

    I do however think Rubin has gone full Cole.

  85. 85.

    Kropacetic

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: If he’s right, I don’t know that anything is worth it anymore. Seriously.

    Well, it’s still best to proceed as though life is worth it.  Because if it is worth it, we may produce better outcomes that way.  And if it truly isn’t worth it, what’s the harm in trying anyway?

  88. 88.

    Xentik

    @cain:

    There are probably 27% who would [helpfully suggest] nuclear winter [as a solution to global warming.]

    Fixed that for you.

  89. 89.

    MattF

    About the Lincoln Project ads— if you’re trying to change minds, the target should be the marginal voters, the group that’s not really paying attention and voted for Trump last time because Fox and Jesus said so, and because Hillary was icky. But voters on the margin of changing their minds are always a small group, and with the recent poll movements a changing group as well— so targeting them is hard. Another group the LP might be targeting is disappointed lefties, but I doubt that ads from the likes of Wilson et. al. would convince that group. So, I’m left with ‘It’s entertaining and might motivate some lazy libtards’ but that’s hardly a big deal.

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Just Chuck: Kristol gives off kind of a broken vibe, or is that just me? I still don’t trust a lot of the NT crowd especially on foreign policy, and I believe Schmidt was talking on MSNBC the other day about “small government”, which I always hear as Republi-speak for “shred social safety nets”, but… we’ll cross, or burn, those bridges when we get to them.

  92. 92.

    Feathers

    @Kropacetic: Not all ads have to be targeted to new voters to be effective.

    These ads are by longtime Republican operatives and appear to be intended to a) drive Trump crazy; b) warn Republicans that Trump’s time is ending, and get prepared to jump ship; c) scare Republicans who sat out the election or voted third party into considering voting for Biden.

  93. 93.

    Kropacetic

    @Feathers:Not all ads have to be targeted to new voters to be effective.

    Oh, I didn’t necessarily mean new new voters.  Just people who aren’t currently our voters.

    c) scare Republicans who sat out the election or voted third party into considering voting for Biden

    Yup, that will do quite nicely.

  94. 94.

    different-church-lady

    @cain:

    There are probably 27% who would cheer a nuclear winter.

    As long as they were promised that the cave the black family was living in was colder than theirs, yes.

  97. 97.

    dogwood

    The 27% crazification factor began with John Rogers at Kung Fu Monkey during the Bush administration.   In reference to the question of what was Bush’s floor of support, the answer was 27%.  It’s the percentage of people who voted for Allan Keyes in his Senate race against Obama.

  99. 99.

    patrick II

    @MattF:

    I think those types of ads are more important than you do.  First, it has worked in the past for Republican candidates.  They eviscerated Gore and Hillary with personal attack ads and they add up. Especially if they are grounded in truth, which these are more than the anti-democratic ones.

    And they set a floor that allows somewhat more muted attacks from Democratic groups to be successful and not deemed too outrageous.  We have really been too polite in the past, and it has hurt us.  I don’t see anything in the Lincoln Project ads that aren’t truthful, and mostly talking points that have been posted or commented on here at Balloon Juice.  I like the wider distribution.

  100. 100.

    Mary G

    This gets my vote for the new name of the DC NFL franchise:

    The Washington Administration Officials Who Spoke On Condition of Anonymity Because They Were Not Authorized to Speak Publicly— Daniel Larison (@DanielLarison) July 13, 2020

  105. 105.

    Kropacetic

    @different-church-lady: Is everyone else just ignoring the very first statement upon which the entire rest of the rant is premised?

    The second point is an argument as to why the author believes the first point.  I don’t actually find this scenario entirely implausible.  But I also don’t find it helpful to fixate on the possibility of the worst imaginable outcome. Let’s just find whatever opportunities we can to help avoid this future.

  107. 107.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:

    I’d like to be able to understand their stupidity.

    So that possibly in some way it might be eradicated. Or at least tempered a bit.

    Their tribal stupidity, which causes massive pain, death and destruction, not only to their “enemies,” but directly to themselves as well.

  108. 108.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @The Thin Black Duke: Your gloom&doomer is saying “the pandemic is permanent” based on two other assertions:

    1. There has never been an effective vaccine for coronaviral infections
    2. Individual immunity to COVID-19 won’t last more than a few months

     

    The implication of #1 is that the fraction of the population who would have immunity after vaccination (i.e, the seroconversion rate) would be too small to remove the disease from the population as a whole. The implication of #2 is that even those with immunity (from vaccination or prior exposure) would no longer be immune after a few months.

    Both notions are deeply pessimistic and neither is inevitable. In principle, vaccines can be blended from several different types & those who get no protection from one type might get protection from another. Quick mathematical interlude:

    If only half of the inoculated seroconvert after getting Vaccine A, and half after getting Vaccine B, and half after getting Vaccine C, and the seroconversion rates are independent, then a blend of ABC would induce seroconversion in (0.5) + [(1-0.5) x 0.5] + [(1-0.75) x 0.5] = 50% + 25% + 12.5% = 87.5% of those vaccinated. Which ain’t chopped liver.

    (NB Seasonal flu vaccines are blends of vaccines that work against several different flu strains – the vaccine makers have to guess in advance which strains will be prevalent, & sometimes they guess wrong, so the vaccine isn’t effective against some of the stuff that actually shows up.)

    The other thing is that some of the candidate vaccines are using novel methods to induce immunity, and it may well be (or not be) that one or more of these will lead to a successful vaccine.

    If immunity wears off, the obvious response is to revaccinate however often is required to maintain it. There’s no a priori reason a COVID-19 vaccine could only be administered once a year.**  IIRC the old anthrax vaccine (the biostatistics of which I worked on before the turn of the millennium) required several boosters, one only 6 months out from the initial injection.

    ** For that matter the same is true for seasonal flu – it’s  logistics & lead-time that get in the way of more frequent inoculations.

  109. 109.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Kropacetic:

    We need to stop by my wife’s closed office every month or so to retrieve various items. It’s a travel agency that is a branch of a national outfit – this branch caters to high end leisure experiences, primarily international.   About a dozen people worked there; all that’s left are her and a manager, working from home about 30 hours a week. She only works cancellations and refunds these days, the work load dwindling to zero (she had been on commission only, and had to negotiate something around the unemployment pay rate – even then, we’ve already lost 6 figures of her income this year). The manager stops in a couple of times a month to check the mail.

    When I go in, it’s a sad thing to see. The wall calendar in the break room is perpetually stuck on March; that formerly lively, fun, pleasant space silent.
    When the world blew up, we were in Roatan, Honduras on a diving trip. When we came back, the airport was noticeably quiet; we were out 48 hours before Honduras shut down.

    I think about the wonderful, lovely, lively people we’ve met in our travels. The fun, the joy of discovery, the pleasant little surprises, and I want all of that back – every fucking bit of it. Introversion cannot be my new world.

  110. 110.

    catclub

    @Patricia Kayden: Philadelphia Inquirer calls for Trump to resign.

     

    newpaper editorial pages were almost uniformly, (and much more so than in previous years) opposed to the GOP candidate in 2016 as unqualified, incompetent, etc.    Nobody listens to newspaper editorial pages.

  111. 111.

    zzyzx

    @The Moar You Know:

     

    It is permanent because immunity due to prior infection is lost within six to eight months.

    That is not a known fact. The only evidence to support that is vague enough that it could come under testing error. We haven’t seen Italy and Spain and New York City have massive reinfections upon reopening, so that is not a universal truth.

  112. 112.

    different-church-lady

    @Uncle Cosmo: Thank you so much for handling this — I was going to try to reply but I’m not sure my forehead is rated for that much impact damage.

  115. 115.

    Fraud Guy

    @cain: Because Jim Inhofe would bring a nuclear ashball onto the floor of the Senate to show it’s not too bad.

  116. 116.

    MattF

    @patrick II: I agree that the LP Not Targeting Democrats is a good thing, and even believe that it’s evidence of good faith. But I think they’re mostly preaching to the choir.

  117. 117.

    randy khan

    @Jerzy Russian:

    So this person discovered the virus was real.  I am curious to know what the next step in the “investigation” was to be?  Write a report?

    Unfortunately, in this particular case, the next step was funeral arrangements.  (I can’t bring myself to make a Darwin joke here, justified though it might be.)

  118. 118.

    zzyzx

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: my friends are all scattered around the country and we mainly meet up at big events. I haven’t had plans with anyone since February and haven’t spent time with anyone but my wife (who is essential and is gone from the house 40 hours a week or so) since then too. I love my cats but I’m definitely starting to lose it. I need to have something to look forward to or what’s the point?

  119. 119.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TS (the original):

    Gov Cuomo is holding another of his info/press sessions today.

    Evidently the cable channels are no longer carrying his press briefings. I toggled between MSNBC and CNN, but there he wasn’t. Wonder what his big announcement was — and whether he was able to burn DeSantis a little.

  120. 120.

    randy khan

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    This is not a majority opinion.  It could be right, but I don’t think we should treat it as gospel, particularly on the point about a vaccine.

    And, as an aside, there’s no vaccine for SARS or MERS, and neither one changed the way we live.  I’m not saying they’re the same as COVID-19 – they’re not – but it’s important to recognize what’s happened before.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    Zoe Tillman
    @ZoeTillman
    ·26m
    The judge in Roger Stone’s case would like to see Trump’s commutation order — she wants clarification about whether it only keeps him out of prison, or if it affects the terms of supervised release that she imposed at sentencing as well.

    Good for her. Make the low quality Trump hires follow SOME of the rules and laws that bind everyone else.
    They’ll be pissed that they have to work for 15 minutes today, anyway.
    If it’s not right she’s going to make the dopes do it over.

  126. 126.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @SFAW: I think s/he was riffing on Vizzini (who used it incorrectly, of course).

    I fondly recall an ancient George Carlin riff in which he imagined himself an advertising exec tasked with coming up with catchy brand names for birth control pills. One was PoppaStoppa – & another was Inconceivable! (I forget the rest. :^D)

  128. 128.

    Kropacetic

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I think about the wonderful, lovely, lively people we’ve met in our travels. The fun, the joy of discovery, the pleasant little surprises, and I want all of that back – every fucking bit of it. Introversion cannot be my new world.

    It doesn’t have to be.

    You’re part of a community here.  Find other communities than you can be part of safely, ones that will help you live experiences you miss having.

    You want to be able to travel safely? Someone somewhere is trying to make that a reality.  Is there any way that you or your wife who is apparently very accomplished in the travel industry can help that initiative?

  131. 131.

    Eolirin

    @The Moar You Know: Statement 2 is factually incorrect, and the entire premise requires statement 2 to be true.

    There’s a bunch of other misleading and slanted stuff in there too.

  134. 134.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @zzyzx:

    I was supposed to have a 40th class reunion Saturday at a bar owned by a classmate. I don’t think I can justify going, and the whole affair is likely to collapse – we’ve all been pretty diligent about marking the 10s, and there are some that I’d routinely gotten together with for years.

  135. 135.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @raven:  No, it doesn’t, but then again, I can’t exactly seek out in-person therapy for it, either.

  137. 137.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    maybe there truly is an irreducible percentage of lunacy in the population.

    In any big enough (however big, big enough is) population there will always be a significant percentage of outliers of some measure. Politics will be no different. Some will be contrarian just because they never go along, some will join in because they are followers, etc. People voted for the massive idiot asshole because he was a he, not a she. They voted for the massive idiot asshole because they are idiot assholes out of camaraderie. A large segment of the population thinks without the application of logic or process, crap just pops into their brains, they don’t know how or why. A lot of people choose hate as their go to emotion. Half the population is below the median intelligence. That’s the one that makes most people ponder how humans have gotten to where they are, humans in space, humans with no homes or food, people with more money than a number of countries and within miles, people go hungry, idiots having COVID parties – and dying.

  138. 138.

    Kropacetic

    @Bex: Yeah, the NYT endorsed Elizabeth Warren AND Amy Klobuchar several eons ago during the primaries.

    Yet didn’t quite make an attempt to seriously cover their, or any other, campaigns. Who put the sports and gossip teams in charge of writing politics?

    ETA: Scratch that.  I’d love for our media to take politics even half as seriously as they take sports.

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s seven, not six.

    Only because of the trailing numbers after the decimal.  Usually when people discuss X figures, they’re referring to whole dollars

  139. 139.

    Kattails

    Holy shit listening to Cuomo right now live he just called Donald Trump a liar, he’s excoriating the Federal gov. for utter failure at so many points.  He’s furious having to deal with out of state people having sacrificed so much to get this under control.  Enforced forms at the airport mandating quarantine, must provide info or $2000 fine.

  141. 141.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    We we’re thinking things open in Europe by next fall, but every day seems to suck more, and when the Pandemic Assistance checks stop, what’s left of the economy will crater.

  142. 142.

    Brachiator

    Speaking to reporters last Thursday, DeSantis pointedly denied that New York was helping his state’s Covid-19 response, stating, “They’re not helping us.”

    “I think that someone reached out to our office about ventilators — we got 6,000 just sitting idle, so we don’t need it,” the governor added. “We are working with the federal government on some of the Remdesivir.”

    I would ask what is wrong with these people, but it is too tiring.

    DeSantis is a world class idiot.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    @Kattails:

    Holy shit listening to Cuomo right now live he just called Donald Trump a liar, he’s excoriating the Federal gov. for utter failure at so many points.

    How could Cuomo be right? I’m sure a White House staffer praised Trump for his “bold leadership” about an hour ago? :)

    This is insane. The more cases increase, the more Trump and his enablers are revealed to be vile, cynical fools.

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @J.:

    Have you seen his other nickname, DeathSantis? Seems appropriate. I, for one, cannot wait to vote him out of office.

    Between your governor and mine, Ron Gillum and Stacey Abrams are looking better and better with each day that passes.

  148. 148.

    MisterForkbeard

    @different-church-lady: This is the same calculus that leads Republicans to hate climate change policy. Except in that case, the ‘downside’ for Dems is “Planet is nicer and cleaner and Democrats are embarassed)”

    Yep. It’s a cult.

  149. 149.

    patrick II

    @MattF:

    I think the important thing is the baseline.  How often have you seen in the past when the Democrats put out aggressive ads, even policy-based ones, and get accused of practicing dirty politics?  Even in the face of egregiously offensive, dishonest ads from Republicans — written by some of these very same guys. These ads set a baseline that Democrats who want to go on the offensive can have some room to maneuver.

  154. 154.

    Elizabelle

    Cuomo O’Clock today.  He’s got an illustrated timeline, like a children’s book.  Taking questions now.  ny.gov

    And apparently put up a slide with Fauci’s photo:

    Science trumps politics.

    Thwack!

  156. 156.

    Elizabelle

    @Kattails:   C-Span online is covering, so there will be a full video later.

    I turned in late, but this one looks worth watching every minute.

    Trump deserves excoriating.  He deserves being up on crimes against humanity once his ass is thrown out of the Oval Office he never deserved.  Or earned.  Fucker is illegitimate.  We would not have him, or have had W, if we had an honest mainstream media.

  158. 158.

    Kropacetic

    @Baud: It’s like Cuomo didn’t even see Trump’s mask.

    It was a game-changing development that will make every difference for American public health the Trump campaign. Even the Democrats’ mighty hero, Cuomo, was stunned into silence.

  159. 159.

    West of the Rockies

    @Kropacetic:

    I want to express my appreciation for your presence here.  You often bring insightful, well-worded observations to this forum.  I dig your not-blind optimism and sense of perspective.

  160. 160.

    JustRuss

    @Just Chuck: Yeah, Kristol has been so wrong, so often, about so much, I don’t think I want him on my side. Even if he means well (doubtful), I’d never trust his judgement.  Rubin’s really growing on me though.

  162. 162.

    Brachiator

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    I fondly recall an ancient George Carlin riff in which he imagined himself an advertising exec tasked with coming up with catchy brand names for birth control pills. One was PoppaStoppa – & another was Inconceivable!

    Both of these suggested brand names are pretty funny. I recently saw a short video clip where Carlin mentioned Inconceivable!

  163. 163.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @zzyzx:

    I’m in a similar boat, though my spouse is working from home, too.  We have to have hope.

  165. 165.

    germy

    global health and vaccine expert Dr. @PeterHotez of @Baylor says the Trump admin is engaged in a “deliberate misinformation campaign” around #Covid and “this is a very uncomfortable time for scientists who are willing to speak out” @BBCNews

    — Judy Woodruff (@JudyWoodruff) July 13, 2020

    Correcting: Dr. @PeterHotez is affiliated with @bcmhouston

    — Judy Woodruff (@JudyWoodruff) July 13, 2020

    Then invite them onto NewsHour so they can speak out.

    — Tessa Arlen (@TessaArlen) July 13, 2020

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the stupidity wears you down, everywhere you turn…

    Chance The Rapper @chancetherapper
    · 2h
    Are u more pro biden or anti ye and why? I get that you’ll want to reply that you’re just tryna “get trump out” but in this hypothetical scenario where you’re replacing Trump, can someone explain why Joe Biden would be better??

  167. 167.

    Kropacetic

    @West of the Rockies: Thank you, it’s nice to hear. We all need each other.  We help keep one another informed and, hopefully, balanced.

    insightful, well-worded observations

    Haha, not always so.

  170. 170.

    JPL

    The idiot in chief is having a roundtable with folks positively impacted by law enforcement today.  I wonder if he’ll have each of them kiss his ass first..

  173. 173.

    Mary G

    @Kattails: The LA Times has a great piece up on the failures in California that led to the out of control cases we’re seeing now.

    There were massive testing fuckups:

    The pileup of samples left the county’s testing infrastructure bottlenecked and on the brink of collapse. A county memo asked hospitals to turn away any suspected coronavirus patient with mild symptoms — without a test and without reporting the case.

    “Don’t call” the public health department, one infection control coordinator wrote in an email to doctors.

    and

    Earlier that month, the pileup at Quest had become insufferable; Dr. Ng had redirected samples to Alameda County’s public health lab. But their aging equipment delivered test results by fax; the head of labs at three hospitals and several clinics found herself relegated to watching for the “LOW TONER” light to illuminate on the printer.
    Issues compounded when the lab equipment’s test results could not be validated. The deluge of specimens came to resemble the accelerating conveyor belt of confections in the classic chocolate factory episode of “I Love Lucy,” she said.

    and

    Meanwhile, at UC Berkeley, molecular biologist Fyodor Urnov formed what he called “SEAL Team Six”: hand-selected scientists, physicians and students who had constructed a volunteer lab in a matter of weeks to help relieve Quest’s backlog. They “moved heaven and earth” to get government certifications and create a highly automated lab that could run as many as 1,000 patient samples a day, he said.

    But when Urnov told nearby hospitals he could provide free testing and results in 48 hours, the hospitals declined, saying their electronic records systems were still entangled at Quest and LabCorp. The volunteers were stunned.

    “We said, ‘What? Are you kidding me?’ They have a direct link to a testing provider that has failed,” Urnov said. “There’s institutional inertia.”

    The testing regime “failure was federal, state and local. We all failed,” Kazan said. “If we could go back to January, when we saw what was happening in Wuhan, if we had taken that opportunity to scale ourselves up in anticipation, we could have been more prepared than we are now.”

  174. 174.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @randy khan: I believe what the writer is trying to say that if the United States continues to do what it’s not doing, the pandemic will be permanent. Does that make sense?

  175. 175.

    Redshift

    There’s plenty of research showing that a large majority of “independents” lean toward one party consistently, like this from Pew showing that about 7% of the population are true independents, and they’re mostly not very connected to politics. Most “independents” are just people who are registered that way for one reason or another in states with party registration, or people who pride themselves on their “independent thinking” that mysteriously leads them to the same result as other similar people.

    We’d really be better off if more polls pushed “independents” on whether they usually vote for one party, so this cult of the mythical independent voter might die out.

  176. 176.

    Kropacetic

    @Baud: The one and only answer should be “No, because we have more important things to do than play with fools.”

    Fools vote.

  178. 178.

    patrick II

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Biden is a competent, decent human being, and the potential success of his presidency springs from those personal characteristics. As opposed to an incompetent psychopath who’s already proven lack of a successful presidency, to put it mildly, springs from those very different personal characteristics.

    I have considered changing my nym to “KOOTO” — Keen Observer Of The Obvious — as this comment demonstrates. Actually, that is my twitter handle.

  181. 181.

    cain

    @different-church-lady: As long as they were promised that the cave the black family was living in was colder than theirs, yes.

    Truth. These people are so damaged. Strangely these people are also deeply religious.

  186. 186.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @patrick II: it surprised me because although I am not at all plugged in on pop culture, I’ve seen and read bits of interviews with Chance and he struck me as someone was fairly smart, mostly around his big donation to Chicago public schools.
    How willfully, intentionally, determinedly (wasn’t sure that was a word, but spellcheck is okay with) ignorant of…. everything… do you have to be to ask, out loud, if there’s a meaningful difference between trump and Biden?

  188. 188.

    Betty Cracker

    @Bostondreams: Graham is tweeting like someone who still has gubernatorial ambitions. I voted for her in the 2018 primary because I thought she had a better chance of winning than Gillum. It’s hard to prove a counter-factual, but I can’t help but think if she’d won, we wouldn’t be stuck with DeSantis.

  189. 189.

    Baud

    @Kropacetic: Chance is not a neophyte in politics.  He is asking this question disingenuously.  If people on Twitter want to use this opportunity to post good things about Biden, fine. But I hope they don’t get into the mud with Chance if he pushes back. Only pigs like it there.

  193. 193.

    Kropacetic

    @Baud:  If people on Twitter want to use this opportunity to post good things about Biden, fine. But I hope they don’t get into the mud with Chance if he pushes back.

    Agreed. Except you don’t suppose that Chance is swayable?

  194. 194.

    Kattails

    @Uncle Cosmo: @different-church-lady: Thanks for those, I was trying not to let that comment get to me, and hadn’t stopped to analyze it closely.  I would much rather you be correct.  Also, let’s face it, there’s a huge economic payback for someone coming up with a vaccine, which there isn’t for many other viruses.

  195. 195.

    Mary G

    LA Times had another infuriating article Friday:
    A plasma shot could prevent coronavirus. But feds and makers won’t act, scientists say

    It might be the next best thing to a coronavirus vaccine.

    Scientists have devised a way to use the antibody-rich blood plasma of COVID-19 survivors for an upper-arm injection that they say could inoculate people against the virus for months.

    Using technology that’s been proven effective in preventing other diseases such as hepatitis A, the injections would be administered to high-risk healthcare workers, nursing home patients, or even at public drive-through sites — potentially protecting millions of lives, the doctors and other experts say.

    The two scientists who spearheaded the proposal — an 83-year-old shingles researcher and his counterpart, an HIV gene therapy expert — have garnered widespread support from leading blood and immunology specialists, including those at the center of the nation’s COVID-19 plasma research.
    But the idea exists only on paper. Federal officials have twice rejected requests to discuss the proposal, and pharmaceutical companies — even acknowledging the likely efficacy of the plan — have declined to design or manufacture the shots, according to a Times investigation. The lack of interest in launching development of immunity shots comes amid heightened scrutiny of the federal government’s sluggish pandemic response.

    Even Fauci is lukewarm on it, saying they should wait until it’s shown that the IVs currently used on people hospitalized with severe infections work.
    My personal opinion is that it’s all about the money:

    Financial calculations may be another factor for companies. Intravenous plasma products are traditionally the main economic driver for the industry, supply experts said, in part because vaccines have replaced many short-term immunity shots over the years. The money-making antibodies are also far more diluted in intravenous drugs than in injectable ones, which boosts profit margins.

    “They charge a fortune off of intravenous drugs in the hospital. They don’t want to devote the manufacturing plant to something that won’t make oodles of money,” said one infectious disease expert, who has advocated for coronavirus IG shots but asked not to be publicly identified.

    Of course, that is not at all the reason, according to the companies:

    Representatives for CSL, Takeda and Grifols all challenged that assertion.

    “The choice of one delivery method or another has no connection with the potential financial or pricing implications,” a Grifols spokesman told The Times.

    Congressional ignorance and Jared the Useless probably have had a hand in it too:

    Throughout May, researchers and doctors at Yale, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Duke and four University of California schools sent a barrage of letters to dozens of lawmakers. They held virtual meetings with health policy directors on Capitol Hill, but say they have heard no follow-up to date.

    Dr. Arturo Casadevall, the chair of the National COVID-19 Convalescent Plasma Project, said he spoke to FDA officials who told him they do not instruct companies on what to produce.

    “Operation Warp Speed” is the only game in town right now, and that is evil bullshit.

  196. 196.

    Ruckus

    @CaseyL:

    Notice that in many parts of the world the average number of children in families has been/is dropping. Even in my lifetime – and extended family infants died without any obvious reason. And a lot of people had 4 or 5 kids. That number is getting smaller around the world and there are a number of reasons. But one of them is that numbers of humans is getter exponentially larger and even if people can’t explain that, they can see it. Even many religions, who in the past wanted people to have lots of children – in my mind to gain many more followers, but anyway, a lot of them have changed because many understand that population growth is unsustainable. But any organism as big as the human population takes time to learn and rethink itself, if that’s even possible. That it’s happening is actually somewhat amazing, that it may take things like COVID to make it happen really is sort of an amazing look at the overall structure of living things.

  197. 197.

    different-church-lady

    @Elizabelle:

    Methinks Chance might have a few too many dead end Berners in the mix, or is sssssssssusceptible to Chapo Trap House be desperate for attention.

  198. 198.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:   This reminds me:

    didn’t bring it up at the time, but Bret “Bedbug” Stephens (I know) in the FTF NY Times did a rather factual column about a month back about Trump’s horrible coronavirus “response.” It was pretty good, for him.

    Donald Trump Is Our National Catastrophe
    With malice toward all; with charity for none.

    But, being Bedbug, he could not help himself and added this passage, penultimate paragraph:

    Trump is no more responsible for the policing in Minneapolis than Barack Obama was responsible for policing in Ferguson. I doubt the pandemic would have been handled much better by a Hillary Clinton administration, especially considering the catastrophic errors of judgment by people like Bill de Blasio and Andrew Cuomo. And our economic woes are largely the result of a lockdown strategy most avidly embraced by the president’s critics.

    Resulting in a flood of 1965 reader comments, and I would guess 1500 of them stood up for Hillary Clinton. Maybe more than 1500.

    It was glorious to see. I meant to let you and the jackals know. Although, FTF NY Times.

  199. 199.

    germy

    @different-church-lady:

    Entertainers have a right to their opinions, but unfortunately too many people take those opinions seriously.

    I remember in the 1970s, when the “Primal Scream” therapy became popular because of John Lennon’s adoption of it.  But Lennon also said in an interview that he didn’t believe in the theory of evolution, because “if it’s true, why don’t we see monkeys turning into men today?” He also became curious at one point about trepanning. (Fortunately he was talked out of pursuing that therapy.)

    Lots of talented entertainers nowadays are anti-vaxers.  Fans look at entertainers and think because these celebrities are good at one thing, they must be wise on all subjects.

    In many cases, entertainers are more ignorant, because they’ve spent their lives hyper-focused on getting really good at one thing.  And on every other subject, they’re simply dilettantes.

  201. 201.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    Trump is no more responsible for the policing in Minneapolis than Barack Obama was responsible for policing in Ferguson. I doubt the pandemic would have been handled much better by a Hillary Clinton administration, especially considering the catastrophic errors of judgment by people like Bill de Blasio and Andrew Cuomo.

    I hate this stuff.  I call them idiot hypotheticals. He’s saying, “If you assume that everything I say is true, then the outcome is necessarily what I want.” Big deal.

    But it’s nonsense.  But even so, it doesn’t matter what Hillary Clinton might have done. What Trump actually did was stupid and incompetent.  End of freaking issue.

    And our economic woes are largely the result of a lockdown strategy most avidly embraced by the president’s critics.

    Every country in the world, except Sweden, had some version of the lockdown.  Every country in the world, including Sweden, has seen their economies take a hit.

    What alternative did this idiot suggest?

  203. 203.

    Aleta

    Woke up w/ the music from Groundhog Day in my head.  Until the country gets it right.

  204. 204.

    Scuffletuffle

    For me the most disturbing thing about the covid party decedent is that even when hospitalized and apparently at death’s door, they apparently, based on those remarks, still entertained the shadow of a doubt.

  205. 205.

    rikyrah

    @Kropacetic:

     

    I don’t give a phuck if he’s swayable.

    We let bullshyt like these muthaphuckas stand in 2016.

    That was our mistake.

    They need to be laid waste to and obliterated for such foolishness.

  209. 209.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah:   Pretty much what 1500 reader commenters told him.  Some of whom said they did not particularly like Hillary, but are you for real, Mr. Stephens?

  210. 210.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    I remember in the 1970s, when the “Primal Scream” therapy became popular because of John Lennon’s adoption of it.  But Lennon also said in an interview that he didn’t believe in the theory of evolution, because “if it’s true, why don’t we see monkeys turning into men today?”

    And Lennon said that even as he saw Michael Nesmith turn into a Monkee.

    I give Lennon credit for being open enough and skeptical enough to re-examine some of his beliefs.  He and the other Beatles stepped back on the Yogi and meditation thing.

    In many cases, entertainers are more ignorant, because they’ve spent their lives hyper-focused on getting really good at one thing.  And on every other subject, they’re simply dilettantes.

    They are a lot like everyone else, but sometimes able to get more attention. Some celebrities try to do some research, back worthy causes, etc. And of course, they are often sought out for endorsements specifically because of who they are.

  211. 211.

    Kropacetic

    @rikyrah: I doubt the pandemic would have been handled much better by a Hillary Clinton administration

    And this is why, even if she had been President and handled it much better, the politics of the matter wouldn’t have been any better for her.  Remember how ebola was handled by the news during the Obama years.

  213. 213.

    Elizabelle

    @Brachiator:   Yup. That last sentence won’t stand the test of history either.  Winced at it, too.

    Andrew Cuomo is going to look like St. Andrew once the ‘virus ravages the red states.  (Although most are rural, and thus not the petri dish incubator you find in the nation’s largest city.)

  215. 215.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:

    It may be permeant, if enough people don’t do the simple things to stop/slow it’s spread, like wear a mask. It doesn’t have to be the horror that it is, in the lifetime of many on this blog we had many diseases that have been either wiped out or very close to it. Polio, for example. I remember standing in line with the entire famn damily for a sugar cube with a blue dot on it when I was 5 yrs old, to help with that, and to avoid what people I knew were going through. I still know people with polio today, like my neighbor, but rather than be wide spread, they are rare.

    We are at a time of change in the way the world of humans works. Actually we have been since we started as a species. And will continue until we either end ourselves or mutate to some other form. One of the things I’ve noticed in the world is that other animals don’t seem to have a problem with members that don’t look the same or have the same exterior color. Dogs and cats for example, many shades, sizes and so on and they seem to get along based upon individual personalities rather than exteriors. And even between species. Cats living with dogs, can you imagine? Humans seem to be always fighting for a few square inches of dirt or for air or water, it’s almost surprising when they get along at all.

  216. 216.

    Brachiator

    @Mary G:

    Scientists have devised a way to use the antibody-rich blood plasma of COVID-19 survivors for an upper-arm injection that they say could inoculate people against the virus for months.

    This is a press release masquerading as a news story.

    And there have always been people who think that injections of blood or weird crap like monkey glands can cure anything.

    I expect to see Trump pushing this any day now.

  217. 217.

    Ruckus

    @MattF:

    What changes minds one way or another?

    Logic? I find that hard to believe, especially when logic would dictate another direction completely.

    Reason? Is because a reason?

    Thought? I see the logic concept in action here. Also a lack of problem.

    Hate? Seems just a bit more likely. But why? This almost seems too easy. Maybe that’s the answer for most hate, it’s easy, takes almost no effort. And can put one in a group with the same goals and lack of, well effort.

  218. 218.

    Brachiator

    @Ruckus:

    Humans seem to be always fighting for a few square inches of dirt or for air or water, it’s almost surprising when they get along at all.

    Humans sometimes co-operate and sometimes fight.  Same is true of other species.

    In the 60s, Jane Goodall wrote a lot about observing peaceful chimp societies. Then she ran across two groups whose territories overlapped. Soon there was total and brutal warfare.

    All the stuff about pacific “hippie” chimps got scrapped.

  219. 219.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Chance The Rapper @chancetherapper ·1h
    The particular skills the job has required in the past include a stomach for war crimes, an indifference or adherence to white supremacy and the intention of keeping things status quo. Andrew Jackson is still on our money and we’re well aware of his special set of skills

    Is “status quo” part of the Chapel lexicon? the only things missing are: “incrementalism”, “dronze” and a rose

  220. 220.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:

    It’s not just you, but.

    What if he’s right?

    Does, would that change your outlook? Right now it doesn’t have to be permeant but the possibility does exist, although the virus will probably mutate into something more or less dangerous. But as long as it can reproduce and prosper……

  221. 221.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    Andrew Cuomo is going to look like St. Andrew once the ‘virus ravages the red states. (Although most are rural, and thus not the petri dish incubator you find in the nation’s largest city.)

    Famous last words: “We’re red states. We’re diff…”

  222. 222.

    Kropacetic

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Andrew Jackson is still on our money and we’re well aware of his special set of skills

    The administration our nominee was part of started a process to end this, only to have the current administration go back on it.

  223. 223.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    One more thing.

    Trump is no more responsible for the policing in Minneapolis than Barack Obama was responsible for policing in Ferguson.

    Trump often spews nonsense that declares that he personally controls the military and civilian police forces. He talks about “my generals” all the goddam time.

    It is insane that right wing pundits don’t pay attention to what Trump actually says and believes, or insist on filtering it and making it look acceptable and pretty, while falsely bashing Democrats.

  224. 224.

    Kropacetic

    @Brachiator: Trump is no more responsible for the policing in Minneapolis than Barack Obama was responsible for policing in Ferguson.

    That reminds me, didn’t the  current President end a bunch of consent decrees that some jurisdictions were on? Didn’t the O administration implement consent decrees to help start addressing this issue?

    Fuckin’ Bretbug

  225. 225.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: I mean, the real answer is “someone who literally did nothing all day and didn’t actively sabotage things would be better. Luckily, Biden not only won’t sabotage America he’ll actively fix things, too.”

    But yeah. Someone that stupid may not actually deserve an answer.

  227. 227.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Elizabelle: Bedbug Stephens is awful and also consistently a giant idiot. Also asshole.

    Even in this case: You see what de Blasio and Cuomo did after their initial fuckups? They fixed shit. You see how they fixed things by locking down and providing leadership? That shit didn’t cause the ‘economic woes’, the virus did. Without the lockdown we’d all be New York from mid-May, and that’s going to have some pretty damn awful economic effects.

    The path here has been clear since at least April, and it’s been what Democrats have been advocating for: Strict lockdowns to put the virus into retreat until it’s manageable, heavy economic investment and straight out giving people money to stay home. That’s how you keep the economy functioning and people healthy while lockdowns endure, and then the lockdowns lift when there’s no longer a problem… and the economic measures can be dialled down.

    Not complicated. Just requires work, a commitment to logistics, staying home, and basic fucking morality. Stephens can’t admit any of that because the best he can do is to “bothsides” the shit out of this thing to pretend Trump won’t be directly resposible for 250k+ deaths this year and the decimation of our economy.

  228. 228.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    Absolutely. I’m not saying that every animal other than humans gets along all the time, they do not. But it seems to be for reasons that possibly might have to do with survival in some way, while humans seem to hate for reasons that have to do with, well hate.

  229. 229.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kropacetic: I think three things are clear:

    • Hillary’s administration would have done MUCH better than Trump’s. We’d have more PPE, sensible national guidelines, better initial containment, good leadership and less economic damage.
    • Her efforts would also be hamstrung by Republicans who insist she’s doing it wrong, sabotage her legislative and executive efforts, and wholesale rebellion by red states to follow the lockdown guidelines while eagerly lapping up the PPE and economic assistance offered by the Feds
    • The media would take the Republicans lead and declare she’s failed – or at best, should have done much better or had given too much to liberals and the poor.
  230. 230.

    Ruckus

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I believe that a lot of the conservative argument is that they are in charge and have freedumb so no one can intrude on that. It is of course an argument based upon selfishness and greed, probably the two biggest reasons they like shitforbrains, his greed and selfisness.

  231. 231.

    Elizabelle

    @Kropacetic:   Don’t tell Bedbug!

    @MisterForkbeard:   Yup.  Bedbug’s column was from June 5th, and both Cuomo and DeBlasio had changed their strategy severely well before that.

    And, in fairness to Cuomo, the feds did not do him any favors, with no oversight whatsoever of airports, and the CDC hedging.  With abdicating any responsibility for manufacturing and acquiring PPE and needed medical goods and supplies.  (Hey states:  fight it out yourselves. Look out for Jared!)

    People have to remember:  this is a NOVEL virus, and we learn about it week by week.  The strategies for caring for it in hospital have changed.  Sadly, some of those who died early might benefit from slightly different treatment, but maybe not.

    Mostly, shame on the FTF NY Times for Bedbug having that sinecure with prime real estate.

  232. 232.

    Doug R

    @The Thin Black Duke: A lot of the world have the virus tamped down. Remember, trump* got 2,800,000 FEWER votes and only 27% of Republicans say they won’t wear masks. 27% of 25% is less than 7% and we only need 80% masking to effectively kill off the virus.

    We managed for hundreds of years without a measles or scarlet fever or polio vaccine, not having a vaccine means vigilance but we’re not done for.

    Lastly, COVID-19 is near the upper limit for RNA pairs so it’s about as sophisticated as a RNA virus can get. Which means it’s tough to counter, but it doesn’t mutate very fast.

  233. 233.

    Citizen Alan

    @Betty Cracker: The “Bernie guy” narrowly beat the “establishment woman” with a plurality of votes and then lost to DeSantis and then proceeded to get caught in a meth-fueled gay orgy. At this point, I will always vote for the Dem in the general, but I won’t consider anyone who even says a kind word about Wilmer in the primary.

  236. 236.

    J.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Both should have won. I was particularly upset about Abrams. She was robbed! (I only became a Florida resident end of last year, so wasn’t involved in the 2018 race. But I was rooting for Gillum.)

  237. 237.

    Leumas

    The same argument in Oklahoma where a great unknown candidate is

    waging a campaign against Jim Inhofe.  Normally, Inhofe would sail to

    victory.  Abbie Broyles is smart and waging a great campaign on limited

    resources.

  238. 238.

    satby

    @cmorenc: The Lincoln Project posts the ads on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram where they’re shared widely on all three platforms. They aren’t just putting them on Fox in the DC area.

    The best ones on YouTube have over a million views each. Insanely effective with almost no major expense.

  239. 239.

    chopper

    @Fair Economist:

    likewise we came up with something for SARS, it just didn’t have high efficacy. it was never implemented because SARS never came back. not-very efficacious vaccines are used from time to time, if that’s all we have, against certain diseases. doesn’t knock em out but helps a fuck of a lot with outbreaks.

    also, where was that ‘immunity lasts 6 months’ shit coming from?

    i mean, i’m cynical as balls but come on.

  240. 240.

    SFAW

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    I have to confess, my appreciation for Carlin waned after awhile. Seemed like he was really into stylishly screwing around with words, in an attempt to make some larger point. Didn’t seem to work as well as I assume he thought it did.

     

    That said: his suggestions for Pill names are pretty good.

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