Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Good lord, these people are nuts.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Let there be snark.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

You are here: Home / Politics / GOP Death Cult / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Life Goes On, Bumpily As Ever

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Life Goes On, Bumpily As Ever

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It’s like they were a dishonest party full of death cultists, bigots and kakistocrats!

For those who observe…

Reader Interactions

161Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    I hope every WNBA player playing in Russia never does that again. The WNBA is responsible for Brittney’s detainment, and they should focus on better pay for their players.

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    When you think about it, all galaxies are indeed far, far away.

    When I think about it, the Milky Way is right here.

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    When you think about it, all galaxies are indeed far, far away.

    Which, per Einstein, is exactly the same as “a long time ago”. See, it all fits!

  4. 4.

    New Deal democrat

    I have a modest proposal.

    The Supreme Court’s next term begins Monday, October 3.

    I think a Million Person March on the Supreme Court should be scheduled for that day. I wonder how arrogant the reactionary “Justices” would feel as they hear the chants from a million pissed off citizens surrounding their building?

  6. 6.

    Ken

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s remarkable, considering that we’re “stuck out in the uncharted backwaters of the western spiral arm” and confined to basically that one viewpoint, how much of the Milky Way we’ve managed to map

    I’m especially impressed with the detail astronomers have achieved for the center of the galaxy, like the ability to watch star S2 as it orbits the central black hole every 16 years.

  7. 7.

    OzarkHillbilly

    John Fugelsang@JohnFugelsang

    Those poor rightwing justices. Their opinion was leaked and they had no – what’s the word? – choice. Why, it’s almost like their autonomy & right to privacy were suddenly stripped away.

  8. 8.

    Ken

    @OzarkHillbilly: Serves them right for actually writing down the opinion. They should have just handled it with the shadow docket, like they do everything else they want to slide under the radar. “We rule for Texas and Mississippi, Roe is overturned, don’t ask for details.”

  9. 9.

    MomSense

    I think we need to face the reality that this leaked decision will motivate Republican voters to show up in November.
    I’m already seeing so many youngs angry with Democrats and bringing up statements from 15 years ago to blame Biden for this. I engaged with one young woman who countered that Biden isn’t protecting us. How the fuck is he supposed to do that?

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    Was just reading up on the Ohio election results. Brown absolutely clobbered Turner! That was expected I think, but the margin should maybe encourage Turner to find a more productive way to spend her time and energy in the future.

    Also so this eyeroller from Axios on the JD Vance victory:

    The big picture: Vance’s victory deals a body blow to a small but noticeable resurgence of anti-Trump — or post-Trump — sentiment in the GOP.

    Really? I think the resurgence was overstated and now the counter-resurgence is too.

  11. 11.

    Anonymous At Work

    Question for other Lawyers on SCOTUS leak:

    Senior most justice on the majority side assigns the first draft.  That’s Justice Mr. Ginni Thomas.  Why would he pick Alito unless he had Kavanaugh in the bag?

  12. 12.

    sdhays

    @Betty Cracker: He got ~25% and could easily have lost. Hardly a commanding performance for Tramp’s control of the Ohio GQP. Now Tramp gets to own the debacle of possible losing another winnable seat.

    The fact that even Republicans didn’t like Vance until Tramp endorsed him doesn’t seem to indicate he’s a strong candidate on his own.

  13. 13.

    EarthWind&Fire (formerly bluegirlfromwyo)

    Supreme Court’s in disarray! So we should be looking into reforming it, amirite, media? I crack myself up.

  14. 14.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MomSense:

    I’m already seeing so many youngs angry with Democrats and bringing up statements from 15 years ago to blame Biden for this.

    on this blog of olds a few people are dragging out the fantasies of Magick Executive Orders again, currently for Biden– Expand the Court!– and retroactively for Obama– “he should have just sat Garland!” they apparently think this means something–so they can blame Democrats. I’m even more confused by the need to blame Democrats than I am by the fantasies.

    One Weird Trickism is a cancer.

  18. 18.

    dww44

    Well Morning Joe is doing a bit of a walk back argument on behalf of the SC this morning. Pushing the idea that the leaked opinion is not the final version and it could well be that a couple peel off to align with Roberts and uphold the MS. Law but also keep Roe in force.

    To benefit us Dems I opt for the first, as the second would do little to help women who need abortion access in half the country. I’d rather everyone be angry enough to come out and vote more of us into office to legislatively address these issues.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    Salutations, Juicers. I would have checked in sooner but I heard that Elon Musk had bought Balloon Juice. Apparently, that was bad information.

    I see that Chief Justice Roberts has learned that information wants to be free.

     

    @MomSense:

    I’m already seeing so many youngs angry with Democrats

     

    Treat them like antivaxers. They don’t want to take the vaccine, we aren’t going to cry over the harm that comes to them.

    @Betty Cracker:

    Brown absolutely clobbered Turner!

     

    Good news.

  22. 22.

    laura

    @Anonymous At Work: I’m guessing he.first offered ot to the handmaiden and she took a pass, and the cranky god bothered stepped up to deliver the death blow. I’m also guessing an Alito clerk leaked it to check the Chief Justice from retaining a fig leaf on Roe.

  24. 24.

    dww44

    @dww44: the issues being abortion rights and the SC  lifetime appointment and recusal and  lack of ethics rules.

  26. 26.

    Matt McIrvin

    Sooner or later, under some future Republican administration, conservative rule is going to become intolerable enough that the blue states try to secede, and the US will do to us what Putin is now doing to Ukraine (but with vastly greater firepower). I hope we’re ready.

    “Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.”

  27. 27.

    sdhays

    @soapdish: Ohio manages to send Sherrod Brown back to Washington every 6 years. All I said was that Vance was weak, and he might lose.

  28. 28.

    Ksmiami

    @New Deal democrat: with tar and feathers? But what does it accomplish? Why can’t we fight with everything we have? I’m just asking questions here before the nation turns into even more of a hellscape…

  37. 37.

    jimmiraybob

    Well, since I saw “open thread” and I’m in a mood this morning…….

    To know the target of “Make America Great Again” movement, largely shaped by Christian Dominionism, it’s necessary to know what period in time that the proponents think that America was great.  It was certainly pre-US Constitution and I’d say you can draw a straight line to 17th American colonialism and Puritan theocracy/theonomy.  [there seems to be a bit of “English common law” cited in the recent leaked draft SCOTUS opinion].

    I’d recommend looking up, “The Book of the General Lawes and Libertyes Concerning the Inhabitants of the Massachusets” (1648). It’s available online.  Very heavy on the Old Testament.  And, personally, I’d call it theonomy rather than theocracy, but why quibble.

    Disclaimer: You might first want to check whether knowing factual history has been banned in your state.

  39. 39.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: Oh, have you run into those Tories opiejeanne was chatting with? You can discuss Sleepy Joe with them.

  40. 40.

    Immanentize

    Doctors will be required by state law to report miscarriages (mandatory reporter law extension) which then will be investigated by law enforcement as purposeful abortions.

    I could explain what procedures happen at the Supreme Court re: assigning opinions, but there is no way a Junior Associate Justice would be allowed such a task. Thomas picked Alito because they see eye to eye and Alito is, if anything, more rabid on this issue than Thomas (who has his own credibility problems this term.)

  44. 44.

    zhena gogolia

    OT, I had to watch Gremlins 2 (long story, work-related), and it’s brilliant!

  48. 48.

    mrmoshpotato

    Tucker: The war in Ukraine is designed to cause regime change in Moscow. They want to topple the Russian government. That would be payback for the 2016 election…

    Who is “they,” Fucker? The Ukrainians who’re fighting for their country’s freedom right now?

  49. 49.

    Steeplejack

    @MomSense:

    I took a road trip to Philadelphia yesterday with an old friend, and of course we hashed out the issues of the day. She is 70, active in Democratic politics, and of course she was livid about the leaked Roe opinion. She spent some time specifically ranting about young leftie Dem women who sneered at Hillary and voted for Jill Stein. She was basically like: “Good luck living through everything we had to 50 years ago!”

  50. 50.

    Shalimar

    Wait until all the evangelicals discover that the religion of our coming theocracy is Catholicism.

  56. 56.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken:

    It’s remarkable, considering that we’re “stuck out in the uncharted backwaters of the western spiral arm” and confined to basically that one viewpoint, how much of the Milky Way we’ve managed to map 

    I blame telescopes.

  57. 57.

    rikyrah

    @MomSense:

    I’m already seeing so many youngs angry with Democrats and bringing up statements from 15 years ago to blame Biden for this. I engaged with one young woman who countered that Biden isn’t protecting us. How the fuck is he supposed to do that?

     

    that’s phucking crazy.

     

    question 1.

    did you vote in 2016 for Hillary?

     

    Question 2

    did you vote in 2014 for all Democrats?

     

    Question 3

    did you vote in 2010 for all Democrats?

  58. 58.

    Jeffro

    Make all the Rs answer all the questions all the time: do you support the opinion expressed by Justice Alito and the majority in (whatever the actual case is called)?  Do you support overturning Roe v Wade?  What would you tell a woman seeking an abortion due to rape or incest?  What penalties should there be for women who seek and/or obtain an abortion?

    Hammer. The. Shit. out of them on this, Ds.  If you get bored, you can always switch to questions about the GQP’s love of Putin, their silence on R reps and candidates like Gaetz and Boebert and MTG and Greitens and Vance and Oz and alllll the rest, their embrace of tax cuts for billionaires while insisting everyone else “have skin in the game”, and more.

    It’s a ‘target-rich environment’.  Just play offense all the time and good things will happen!

  59. 59.

    Starfish

    @MomSense: I hope that it will fire up Democrats to show up.

    Democrats trying to create a circular firing squad at this moment when Republicans have done a really unpopular thing is stupid.

    “Do you want to forever re-hash the 2016 election?” I for sure do not. I am not sure what is so appealing to both some lefties and the centrists who do. What do people get out of this other than a sense of self-righteousness?

    It is taking focus off the important policy issues that will be lost if these folks do not get their mess together.

  63. 63.

    Steeplejack

    @dww44:

    Pushing the idea that the leaked opinion is not the final version and it could well be that a couple peel off to align with Roberts and uphold the MS law but also keep Roe in force.

    Counterpoint: Interesting thread positing that the opinion was leaked to lock in wavering justices.​

  64. 64.

    Jeffro

    @mrmoshpotato: if you have time, go and read that NYT 3-part series on ol’ Tucker.  There’s ALWAYS a vague, menacing “they” who’s responsible for X (X subject to change on a nightly basis)

  65. 65.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: there have been a few opinions where he voted with the minority (making it 5-4 rather than 6-3) and/or wrote the opinion himself to lessen slightly the radical right wing opinion of the majority, all in a desperate, pathetic, and ultimately futile attempt to prevent his court from being Taney 2.

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jimmiraybob:It was certainly pre-US Constitution and I’d say you can draw a straight line to 17th American colonialism and Puritan theocracy/theonomy.

    I think it’s more complex than that – you have Catholics like Witch Hunter General Alito who want to undo the Reformation and the Enlightenment, the rank and file simply want anyone not like them to be punished for being different and the Evangelical pastors who need to keep the rubes making their love donations to Jesus even Sunday for the pastor’s yacht payments. The vast majority of that group certainly don’t want the 17th century, but they are to lazy to think threw were the Alitos are leading them.

  67. 67.

    PJ

    @Gin & Tonic: Customer:”I’ve been standing here half an hour, and you still haven’t brought my coffee!”

    Attendant: “Ah, I can see you’re confused.  If you actually want to get your coffee, you have to go next door.  This establishment is just where you wait for it.  That’s why we put the little clock next to the sign.”

  68. 68.

    Bupalos

    @MomSense: I’m not going to predict the effect come november, but I’m fairly disappointed in the reactions and messaging from our big-wigs. I spat my coffee watching Biden talking about the right to “abort a child.” I don’t know how that passes through your lips even as a gaff if you’re really engaged in this.

    Plenty of “women women women” that frankly doesn’t sound all that sincere. Very little what SP Warren’s brings – real anger at a meticulously planned, lie-ladened, full-spectrum derailing of the most fundamental American principles of self determination.

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    @Matt McIrvin:under some future Republican administration, conservative rule is going to become intolerable enough that the blue states try to secede, and the US will do to us what Putin is now doing to Ukraine (but with vastly greater firepower). I hope we’re ready.

    I’m ready!  The only thing worse than living under minority rule is living under majority rule that’s still, somehow, kept in check by the minority anyway.

  71. 71.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: I agree. And I also think that this was a maximalist stab by Alito. Remember — the Justices do not discuss opinions in person, it is all done in writing. The only time they sit together and talk about a case is in the conference soon after argument. And that is not a real discussion, it is just each Justice, in reverse seniority, stating what outcome they prefer and –VERY briefly — why. So at conference, a preliminary vote was taken and Thomas (if he was present that day and not in hospital) assigned the first shot to Alito.

    This was not the “first draft” per se, but the first draft circulated. So, Alito got the assignment to take a stab at a majority opinion. It took him two months to create a “final first draft” and circulate. Between then and now, memos from Justices have been circulating. If you agree with the outcome (overturn Roe) then you might say, “I will join you if you rewrite sections ____, ____, and ____.  In the very final iterations, Justices disagree about words, phrases, sentences, punctuation. Also being circulated are dissents and concurrences. Among these is likely Robert’s opinion (given the arguments) that Mississippi law can stand because “viability” is no standard at all and 15 weeks seems to be an emerging international consensus.

    It is possible that the dissenters would join Roberts if he upheld the right to an abortion, but dissent to his conclusion. If one or more of the original 5 (in conference) could be peeled off, Alito’s draft would become a dissent.

  75. 75.

    oldgold

    Except in the case of real and critical national security matters, why are leaks as to what our government officials are doing or about to do, including robed pols, considered a bad thing? We need more light, not less.

    Why should the Justices drafts and negotiations concerning important public issues be shrouded in secrecy?

    What exactly does the head ump, Roberts, want investigated?

  76. 76.

    PJ

    @zhena gogolia: čekat is to wait, čekárna is a waiting room, as in a doctor’s office.  I’m assuming they named the coffee shop (kavárna) čekárna just for the rhyme, but it’s entirely possible that the service is incredibly slow.  That’s the Czech sense of humor for you.

  77. 77.

    mrmoshpotato

    @zhena gogolia:

    OT, I had to watch Gremlins 2 (long story, work-related), and it’s brilliant! 

    long story, work-related << You don’t have to make excuses with us. :)

    Now – when are you going to treat yourself to Gremlins?

  81. 81.

    Bupalos

     

    @Jeffro:

    I don’t want to aim this at you, but for every 10 people the left I hear casually talking about this kind of violent upheaval in the future and how they’re ready for it, I hear roughly 0 people telling me about even fairly modest uncomfortable steps they are taking to attempt to prevent that future. Which gives me a pretty good idea what this kind of talk is actually about.

    Its like climate change.

  82. 82.

    Immanentize

    @oldgold: There are lots of reasons not to allow draft opinions to be released — take for example potential market manipulations if a draft was leaked affecting some serious aspect of a corporation that ultimately never saw the light of day?

  83. 83.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Immanentize: Agreed. I thought he would try to thread the needle.

    For everyone else:  Imm’s longer comment above is a good summation of how the Court works in practice.

  84. 84.

    zhena gogolia

    @PJ: Oh, I forgot the word kavárna and thought čekárna was the regular word.

    I’m a Slovak.

  86. 86.

    lowtechcyclist

    @soapdish:

    @sdhays: Please.  They’re going to line right up behind him.

    I’m not an Ohioan, so I’m willing to take correction from jackals who live there, but ISTM that all this means is that Vance is guaranteed the vote of every person who voted against Sherrod Brown.

    But Brown won rather handily IIRC.  So I think it really will matter that Vance is a shitty candidate, because it will limit the extent to which he can expand on that base.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    The MSNBC program and podcast Into America puts the Supreme Court’s abortion decision into sharp perspective.

    According to a draft Supreme Court opinion obtained by Politico, the Supreme Court stands poised to overturn Roe v. Wade during its next session. If this happens, it’s estimated as many as 23 states will enact some type of abortion ban, some of which will go into effect almost immediately. And Black people could be hardest hit.

    Black women seek abortions at a higher rate than any other group. And that, coupled with the knowledge that infant and maternal mortality rates are higher for Black people, could create a dangerous situation for Black people forced to carry pregnancies to term.

    Who knew that the world would get so crazy. The Republicans are oscillating between autocracy and theocracy. Poor democracy is barely hanging on.

    The battle is on. And for us, as the saying goes, failure is not an option.

  89. 89.

    Starfish

    @Steeplejack: The way that older folks who are very involved in party politics want to spend all their time ranting about the kids these days is going to assure that the kids don’t join the party. If their goal is to kill the party, they could not be doing a better job.

    I think the young not voting and the older voters complaining about them is business as usual.

    The things on the table in the Democratic Party for the younger voters were climate change and student debt relief. Nothing got done on either of those issues. The courts did repeal the Clean Water Act.

    The way that centrists are now complaining about Jayapal when she was involved in not letting the lefties kill whatever did get passed by being the face of “believing Manchin” is really not great.

  90. 90.

    jimmiraybob

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I understand what you’re saying but I think that 17th century America colonial law, especially the 1648 MA book referenced – essential modelling a theocracy/theonomy – would have equal appeal to both radical dominionist Catholics and Protestants.

    For instance, think Steve Bannon and Josh Hawley, the “conservative” SCOTUS justices, and Ted Cruz.  They could find common cause today and, if successful, fight for dominance after.

  91. 91.

    debbie

    @Immanentize:

    Once opinions have started being written, is there any circulation with the opposite “side”? Or, after that brief first meeting, are they walled off from each other?

  92. 92.

    Dangerman

    @Omnes Omnibus: If Thomas kicks the bucket, it’s 4-4, right? Now, I wish CT a long and happy life, but he was just in the Hospital and Mr. Actuarial comes for everybody. Plus, if I woke up to Gianni everyday, I think my heart would seize.

    I suppose if CT checks out, he would be replaced with RGB level speed, so it becomes 5-4 the other way.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Brown won in 06, 12, and 18. All great years for Democrats, especially 06, and 06 was also when he had his strongest opponent, DeWine. After that it was Mandel and Renacci- both weak candidates.

    Tim Ryan has a much, much harder job.

  95. 95.

    Ohio Mom

    @Bupalos: You are going to hold a grudge against Biden?! Biden?!

    All anger should be directed solely toward Republicans and other Right-wingers.

    I’m sure there is a term in psychology for people who attack their allies for smaller aggressions and skip over being mad at the real wrong-doer. Like focusing on blaming the mom for not stopping the abuse instead of focusing on dad, the abuser.

    I get that it has to do with feeling betrayed but really, who is the bigger back-stabber here? Why are you essentially letting them off?

  96. 96.

    oldgold

    @Immanentize:

    BS. If people want to bet on drafts, so what? They do on legislation. So what? These robed ideologues are not entitled to a protective shroud of secrecy as to the process that goes on in making their particular baloney.

    We need much more light on what these non-elected and non-accountable robed pols are up to.

  97. 97.

    Brachiator

    @rikyrah:

    Question 3. did you vote in 2010 for all Democrats?

    Careful . Some of the Youngs might not have been old enough to vote in 2010. ;)

  98. 98.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Bunter:

    Does that mean he agrees that Russia installed TFG? Huh, who’d think Tucker would tell the truth even inadvertently. 

    I have no idea.

  99. 99.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: they are not walled off because part of the process, when the court is functioning normally, is that justices try to convince their colleagues — by their reasoning in a draft opinion — that they should join this opinion because it is so legally and rationally sensible.

    Alito’s opinion is none of those things, which is why I describe it as maximalist — it has bad law and bad legal analysis. I mean, embarrassingly bad. It is a a Fox news commente’s version of history and law very poorly organized and reasoned. I really can’t imagine anyone would join that hot mess.

  100. 100.

    Bupalos

     

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I feel like 1 second of “BAM! PWNED” before the feeling that this stuff really trivializes the loss of freedom  we’re talking about here.

  101. 101.

    Jerzy Russian

    @Immanentize:   Years (decades?) ago on Car Talk Tom was talking about the severe vowel shortage in Bosnia.  His laughter was infectious.

  102. 102.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jeffro: I would oppose secession except in extreme cases–too many of our allies are in red states, and mass migration is never easy. Seceding is basically deciding that the civil rights push for African-Americans of the 1950s-60s should be written off as a loss. The breakup of the US would be a prelude to mass bloodshed, maybe genocide.

    But ICE was already doing mass roundups of undocumented people in blue states under Trump. This decision opens to door to federal bans on abortion, “sodomy”, all kinds of things that could lead to the FBI knocking down your door. If being in a Democratic-leaning state is no longer any kind of shield against federal oppression, at some point remaining in the US becomes intolerable and we reap the whirlwind.

  103. 103.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jeffro:

    if you have time, go and read that NYT 3-part series on ol’ Tucker. There’s ALWAYS a vague, menacing “they” who’s responsible for X (X subject to change on a nightly basis) 

    I’ll specifically make sure I don’t have time!

    Seriously, I know.  These chickenshits, going back to O’Reilly and beyond, always vaguely talk about the “they” Boogeyman.

    Autocorrect sees the Boogeyman that way I see.

  104. 104.

    Immanentize

    @oldgold: That is one of the worst analogies I ever have read. Many of these cases affect the lives of humans. Like life and death. Your “fuck people, I like gambling” attitude is very republican.

  105. 105.

    Immanentize

    @Jerzy Russian: I have a great sorta no-vowel English hangman word for you: “crwth”*. I never lost with that one!

    *A type of musical instrument.

  109. 109.

    Bupalos

    @Ohio Mom: I’m not going to “hold a grudge” against him and don’t really know what that means. And I’m going to continue to canvass and crawl across broken glass and do whatever I can to keep this thing from swirling down the drain.

    I’m also not going to pretend anymore it’s just fine that this is what we’ve got as  leadershio in this fight. It’s not fine. We are losing spectacularly. The GQP is moving decisively to the manufactured chaos phase of totalitarian takeover and we just keep reading off the script. Badly. Abort a child? The fuck???

  110. 110.

    Steeplejack

    @Omnes Omnibus, Steve in the ATL:

    [. . .] a desperate, pathetic, and ultimately futile attempt to prevent his court from being Taney 2.

    Agree with this, and I think it’s also personal brand management for Roberts. He wants all of those (bad) things, but he wants to keep his fingerprints off the worst stuff. “But I voted against x!” (After making sure that it would go through.)​

  111. 111.

    AM in NC

    @Jeffro: Also ask them about what this means for In Vitro Fertilization, because there will be no more IVF if every embryo is sacred.

    “Why are Republicans attacking infertile couples?”

  112. 112.

    Steeplejack

    @Starfish:

    There’s some truth in what you say, but my friend was specifically talking about young Democratic women that she worked with in  various political venues, not just “kids these days.”

  113. 113.

    Bupalos

    @Matt McIrvin: I’d take it a step further. Frankly anyone who talks about “sessession” and/or “civil war” at this point is either profoundly ignorant or profoundly immoral.

    It would make me angrier if I wasn’t dead sure it’s just lazy, breezy, posturing for “likes.”

  114. 114.

    Steeplejack

    @mrmoshpotato:

    That would be payback for the 2016 election.

    Does that mean Carlson is admitting that the Russians were involved in that election? ?

  116. 116.

    Immanentize

    @AM in NC: I just read that a Missouri trigger law criminalizes Docs who provide IVF services. At least that is consistent

  117. 117.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Oh, they did it to themselves. The refusals to retire when they were clearly in poor health or impaired, the game they play where they are essentially choosing their replacement like the seat is a property interest they own, the periodic “public” speeches that are mostly closed to the press where they demand respect and deference. They’ve taken a well-earned hit on credibility. That’s not the fault of anyone but them. They’ll have to earn it back. If they don’t, they won’t get it.

    The leak is a symptom of a weakened institution, not a cause. They can find the “bad apple” and it won’t fix a thing because they never addressed the cause, which is not the leaker but them.

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Starfish: counterpoints: Lying (intentionally or unintentionally) to “the kids” about what is possible in American politics and how things get accomplished (“Revolution!” “There is… NO REASON!…. we cannot have….” “Look out the window, Mitch….”) or constantly repeating “The Young People did their part! They voted!” (once) gives “the kids” (who are all adults or they wouldn’t be voting but whatever) distorted ideas about politics that is guaranteed to leave them disappointed and turn them away from participation.

    Incrementalism is not evil, it’s reality. Politics will not bring instant gratification, it requires work, determination and the long view. The slow boring of hard boards.

    As to “rehashing 2016”: Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. We forgot the lessons of 2000 and did it again in 2016, with even worse results. And a whole lot of people somehow decided that the lesson of 2016 was that we didn’t 2000 hard enough. Among them are the people who lost the Democratic primary, badly, to Joe Biden. And thank the gods they did.

    The way that centrists are now complaining about Jayapal when she was involved in not letting the lefties kill whatever did get passed by being the face of “believing Manchin” is really not great.

    I’m a political junkie and I don’t know what  you’re talking about

  120. 120.

    Jeffro

    @Bupalos: I vote every election, I donate my time to campaigns for door-knocking and GOTV, I donate my money to campaigns and left-leaning groups, I write letters to the editor and op-eds and oh yeah, my actual work involves helping younger folks become educated and to educate others.  I think I’m covering the bases pretty well when it comes to doing everything that I can (beyond modest steps, one might say) for a better future.

    In my mind, that means I get to vent once in a while that it still isn’t enough, and that I hope the red states fuck right off.

  121. 121.

    AM in NC

    @Immanentize:  Well there’s that, I guess.  I don’t think nice, white  Republican women who want to have kids but can’t have them are gonna be happy about this.  All of a sudden the state telling you what you can and can’t do with your uterus might become important enough for them at least NOT to vote for the Taliban.

    I think this is a way to peel off at least some votes, and Dems should be pounding on this as an example of how extreme these people are.

    I’ve written to all the major news networks asking them to ask this question in interviews, because I haven’t heard anyone talking about it and it is a real issue.

  123. 123.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    If this is a draft for the majority, then Roberts is not voting with the majority, which is marginally interesting.

    Marginally at most, at this point.  It’s been obvious for some time now that the Radical Five are leaving him behind as unnecessary baggage slowing them down.

  124. 124.

    Steeplejack

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The vast majority of that group certainly don’t want the 17th century, but they are too lazy to think through where the Alitos are leading them.

    @emilybell: “Alito’s draft heavily references English legal precedent, including that of famed jurist Sir Matthew Hale, who, it should be noted, had at least two women executed for witchcraft and wrote a treatise supporting marital rape.”

  125. 125.

    Soprano2

    @Immanentize: I posted that horrifying Twitter thread about the wife of a serviceman who lives in Texas trying to get care after having an 11 week miscarriage. They can’t treat her on base because of the Hyde Amendment, and doctors in the ER are afraid to treat her because of the 6 week abortion ban. This is the future that awaits pregnant women who miscarry.

  126. 126.

    Nelle

    @Bupalos: I’m fairly strict about language and just yesterday called out an old friend on “aborting people.”  The intrusion into our language and, subsequently our thinking,  of Republican framing is insidious and damaging.  You are right to be alert to it.

    On the other hand, Biden, my old friend yesterday, and yes, even me, are old farts.  Language habits may be hard to break.  I’m struggling with “they” as a singular pronoun (teaching English for 35 years has some residue),  as well as other language changes, even as I know that language flexes and changes in fascinating ways.

    Biden, a faithful Catholic, is nevertheless, trying to walk with us on this issue, despite the judgement of his church.  I welcome him and am not going to freak out at his poor word choice.

  127. 127.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: I started following her after Geminid recommended her (think that’s who it was). She’s interesting and definitely worth reading.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    They’re really complaining about breeches of norms? Two of them lied under oath to get the seat. One of them has a blatant, continuing conflict of interest regarding his spouse that apparently everyone there has just decided never to address. What the thinking here? The staff or clerks will adhere to high standards when (at least) three of the justices don’t?

    Violating norms starts at the top.

  129. 129.

    Bupalos

    @Ohio Mom: to clarify further I in no way feel “betrayed” by Biden or other Dem leadership. Like I didn’t feel “betrayed” when Dwayne Kuiper grounded out weakly to short for the 1179th time in the late 70’s.

    But this is not going to get it done, and I do feel legit panicked about that. The right has an insanely nihilistic but coherent all-embracing emotion-stiring philosphy that even (or especially) their lowliest morons know how to work.

    And we get served up with shocking instance after shocking instance of the most fundamentally anti-American bullshit imaginable and we just look like we’re reading from a series of one-act scripts, without connecting any of it to broader reality. Our overriding message feels like a moving target of “lets just all calm down and go back to whatever was normal 10 minutes ago.” “Let’s watch and see, maybe they’ve overstepped this time!”

  130. 130.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Tim Ryan has a much, much harder job.

    No question about it.  It’s just that it’s going to take more for Vance than to win the vote of everyone who automatically votes Republican.

    Brown won in 06, 12, and 18. All great years for Democrats, especially 06, and 06 was also when he had his strongest opponent, DeWine. After that it was Mandel and Renacci- both weak candidates.

    True that.  And it’s interesting how a given class will have a whole sequence of great years, or of terrible years.  The GOP Senators up for re-election in 2022 were the beneficiaries of Trump’s win in 2016, the Tea Party blowout in 2010, and Bush’s re-election in 2004, if they’ve been around that long.

  131. 131.

    Soprano2

    @mrmoshpotato: These are the people who never would have been able to work for women’s suffrage, which took 75 years to achieve! It seems that if they can’t have everything they want right now, they’re going to take their toys and go home. Spoiled, children, the lot of them, with that attitude.

  132. 132.

    Peale

    @Soprano2: Ah, but middle class women will always be able to get around the law by flying off to a blue state to get an abortion. I’ve been told that many times. Somehow, middle class women will know the time and date of their miscarriages so situations like this are just fearmongering.

  133. 133.

    Soprano2

    @Starfish: What bothers me isn’t people who are young, it’s people who want to give up after a year or two of effort. I’m not one to bash “young people”, either – I often defend them. Some of the best people I’ve worked with in my job are in their 20’s and 30’s. I remind people that whatever they are saying about people who are young today was being said about them 40 years ago by someone who was the age they are now. It’s frustration that they want to give up after a little bit of effort rather than redoubling their efforts. Do they really want to achieve something, or do they want everything with a minimum of effort? Plus, the student loan thing isn’t done yet. Sheesh.

  134. 134.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jimmiraybob:17th century Puritan legal codes provide a model for where they’d evetually like to be.

    I agree with that, assuming they could even make what they want work.  Remember the Puritans by the standards of their day were radical liberals; teaching everyone to read and write!  But they were forced too, yes, that’s the only workable way to do it.

    personally I think that since Alito was quoting from some 17th Century judge, Alito is likely pining for an absolute monarchy.

  135. 135.

    Scout211

    Here in The People’s Republic of California, the Governor and legislature are planning to try to quickly move to add the right to choose to the state constitution.

    Thank goodness we have a supermajority right now.

    California’s governor and top legislative leaders want to add abortion protections to the state’s constitution. Their comments came just hours after Politico published a draft opinion from the U.S. Supreme Court. The opinion indicated a majority of justices support overturning the decision that stops states from banning abortions.

    . . .

    Newsom’s office said its goal is to put the amendment on the ballot this November, though lawmakers will have to act quickly to make that happen. They have to vote on it before the end of June to give state officials enough time to print the ballots.

    It takes a two-thirds vote of the Legislature to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot. That shouldn’t be a problem in California’s Legislature. Democrats control so many seats they could muster the necessary votes without relying on Republicans.


    The amendment would become law if more than 50% of voters support it in November. About 76% of likely California voters oppose overturning Roe v. Wade, according to an April pollconducted by the Public Policy Institute of California, a nonpartisan think tank.

  136. 136.

    oldgold

     

     

    @Immanentize: “@oldgold: That is one of the worst analogies I ever have read. Many of these cases affect the lives of humans. Like life and death. Your “fuck people, I like gambling” attitude is very republican.”

    Yes, “many of the cases affect the lives of humans. Like life and death.” Precisely why 9 robed pols should not be making the decisions in secret.

    As to your responding to me by placing words in quotes – “fuck people, I like gambling” – that is a bad faith “Republican” like response, given I did not say the words you attributed to me in quotations.

  137. 137.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Bupalos: I am opposed to advocating secession or civil war, but I think we might need to start thinking about contingency plans.

  139. 139.

    Bupalos

    @Nelle: I appreciate this, but to me this isn’t a question of whether it’s understandable or a question of Biden’s character. He’s a fundamentally good person and fundamentally shares democratic pluralistic values. He’s trying. So are a lot of folks, even some of those taking their old habits a step further and voting Republican.

    Its a question of whether this can work. Whether (and this is not an age thing) the old “its probably okay” mentality can save the free world. Its a question of who leads and who can actually call America to remember its highest principles.

    I admit I’m freaking out.

  140. 140.

    oldgold

    @Kay:

    My position is that it should not be the norm.

    I think the process should be open.

    And beyond that, I do not think the Court should have much, if any, role in reviewing this sort of thing. Marbury should be buried. It was a illegitimate power grab that has caused far more harm than good to this republic.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I love Sherrod Brown but if you could pick your election years in Ohio, you would pick those.

    People portrayed Howard Dean as this genuis organizer, but Howard Dean also happened to have a VERY good year for Democrats.

  142. 142.

    Bupalos

    @Matt McIrvin: a good contingency plan NOW, if people actually cared enough, would be to stop fleeing the tipping point states as these clowns try to make it uncomfortable for the liberal sensibility there. Ask for ammunition, not a ride. Better yet move there. Get more proud and less comfortable.

  143. 143.

    Kay

    @oldgold:

    You really are a radical! :)

    I am less of an institutionalist than I was. I think in many cases they have not risen to the challenges they are faced with. I think they’re really profoundly lost in some ways. They keep grasping for “credibility” as if “credibilty” doesn’t spring from actions. It does. The institutions will be more credible when the people who make them up are more credible. It just won’t work the other way.

    Lying under oath corrodes the credibily of the person who does it. If that person is a justice it also corrodes the credibilty of the institution. It cannot be otherwise. It’s the people. Other than that it’s just a fancy building.

  144. 144.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Bupalos: That’s easy to say. You’re basically asking people to plan to commit suicide by cop.

    I think mass raids and concentration camps are a real possibility for places like Florida. Really wouldn’t want to move there at this point.

  145. 145.

    oldgold

    @Kay:

    Yes, it is a fancy building and it was a mistake to build it.

    They got it right the first time, when they were placed them in the basement of the Capitol building – Very fitting.

  146. 146.

    Bupalos

    @lowtechcyclist: I’m not THAT sure he’s a shitty candidate. There’s a pretty deep wellspring within the rural whites of wanting to evaporate the social safety net. And contrary to the soothing story educated whites tell themselves, this isn’t as much about ethnicity as they think. The people Vance shits on and basically wants to social-darwinize to death or redemption are all around them. Blacks and even hispanics, not so much.

    The reality is that rural people already live in a world that is as white as they need it to be, theybare totally socially dominant. The role “racism” plays there is primarily as a bloody shirt example that people look down on them. Having lived in 4 big cities, 1 liberal suburb, and Ohio exurbia now for 25 years…I actually doubt the cartoonish version of personal racism is any more prevalent out here than anywhere else. They are threatened by anti-racism more because they feel others believe they are the racists.

  149. 149.

    Chris Johnson

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m never able to see talk of civil war as desirable without remembering that Russia has worked very hard for many years, sometimes with control of the Presidency and Republican party, to augment such feelings and maximize them for their own benefit.

    If you want to help Russia destroy Ukraine and more effectively pursue imperial ambitions towards ruling the world, then work towards civil war in America. It’s that simple. We in America are divided bad enough without open civil war.

    Naturally it is the highest possible priority for Russia to have us tear ourselves apart, like right now ASAP over any possible pretext, so any suggestions about that being inevitable and necessary have to be looked at real skeptically.

  152. 152.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    And fucking Rahm did. A good job at DCCC of recruiting candidates (fucking blue dogs) who could win swing and R+ districts. I’ve said this before, but Howard Dean’s 50 state strategy was aspirational.  It was not implemented.  It Lao went abandoned. He also thought we shouldn’t be afraid to talk economics with confederate flag people but I’m sorry fuckem’.

  155. 155.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Bupalos:

    @lowtechcyclist: I’m not THAT sure he’s a shitty candidate.

    Sure he is. Even with all of Peter Theil’s money behind him, he was going to be a footnote until Trump endorsed him.

    Everything you said subsequently was about the electorate, not about Vance as a candidate.  But whoever the GOP nominated would have had that same electorate.  Were all of them equally good?  Of course not.

  156. 156.

    Bupalos

    @Matt McIrvin: I don’t get “suicide by cop” unless you think I mean actual guns here. Which of course I do not.

    I mean before we fire up the armored personell carriers to go kill, how about we just consider not running away, voting and maybe talking to “the enemy?”

    Americans are in the habit of running away.

  157. 157.

    Tarragon

    @rikyrah: I just had someone on FB tell me that democrats aren’t doing enough to fix this because Biden won’t arrest Manchin and ten Republicans and add 10 justices, like right now.

  158. 158.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: Magdi Semrau, or @Magi_Jay, delivers consistenty thoughtful commentary on her twitter account. She is well worth following.

           Foreign Policy published an article she wrote about longstanding public health practices. It was a rebuttal of conservative pushback against anti-Covid measures. The article was based upon Semrau’s own experience when she contracted antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis. Her longer pieces are alo published by Dame Magazine and John Stoehr’s The Editorial Board.

    I was introduced to Ms. Semrau, aka Mangy Jay, by Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha).

  159. 159.

    jimmiraybob

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I once heard Pat Buchanan say on the old McLaughlin Group show that he would be happy to have a King….a benevolent king……presumably, although he didn’t say, a Catholic king.

  160. 160.

    Gravenstone

    @Tarragon: I pine for the days when kids had to take actual Civics classes in high school. At least then you might hope that as they aged they might remember at least a portion of how government is supposed to function.

  161. 161.

    JR in WV

    @Gravenstone:

    I pine for the days when kids had to take actual Civics classes in high school. At least then you might hope that as they aged they might remember at least a portion of how government is supposed to function.

    This !! So much this !!! But the R fascists don’t want people to understand their political system, it makes it harder for the fascists to manipulate the results!

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