This is a terrible idea (report on CNN):
The three states where ammo is available in vending machines are Alabama, Texas and Oklahoma. No worries, though — AI handles customer screening, so what could possibly go wrong?
Also on CNN, the FBI has identified the deceased shooter in the Trump assassination attempt: Thomas Matthew Crooks. The report says he was “a 20-year-old registered Republican who had previously made a small contribution to a Democratic-aligned group, according to public records.”
Hmmm. Open thread.
Splitting Image
As I said in the last thread, it’s going to be hilarious watching the “news” media try to memory hole an assassination attempt.
Phylllis
I’m so glad I’m retired and do not have to go to the office Monday and listen to the goobers.
piratedan
@Splitting Image: depends on their motivation, they’ve done a fine job with J6 and all of the accomplishments of the 46 administration thus far. I fear you under-estimate them and their powers of narrative setting. These are the same guys that did their damndest to get Biden to step aside after a crappy debate performance but were willing to overlooked a convicted felon leading the other party.
Soprano2
On the BBC overnight they were yammering about the image of TCFG’s fist in the air. He does have the instincts of a natural showman. That pic will be on the front of every newspaper, and he knew that when he was doing it.
Betty Cracker
@Splitting Image: We’re likely to hear of little else in the coming days. My mom was a teen when Kennedy was assassinated, and she told me it was jarring how the story kept changing.
NotMax
Not initially “identified” as Fentanilio Gonzales-Gonzales by the MAGAs?
//
NotMax
@piratedan
Coming sooner than you think from the loony right: “The most brutal assassination attempt in American history.”
//
guachi
The “small contributions to a Democratic-aligned group” don’t make sense as they would have been when the shooter was 17 and living in Pittsburgh, not Bethel.
Betty Cracker
I made banana bread earlier, and it’s not pretty, but it is SO good, if I do say so myself!
SpaceUnit
I’ve heard that the shooter’s ancestors were immigrants.
Going to bed. Tomorrow’s going to be stupider than today.
Villago Delenda Est
ONAN had some other name, and said he was a member of antifa. Which was only an actual organization when it crushed the Nazis in the 40s.
guachi
Oh, the women’s Giro d’Italia bike race (Max) and the men’s Tour de France (Peacock) are amazing. Just great shows of athleticisms and physical ability/suffering. Check them out!
Tomorrow is the final stage for the women and the top two are separated by one second.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
John W. Hinckley Jr. turned out to be a son of a rich Dallas CEO, who got kicked out of college and joined the American Nazi party. Rich reactionaries were Reagan’s demo and still.
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
May have missed it. What did you end up doing with hose scrumptious looking eggplants?
Made a loaf of green pea bread in the super super bread machine today.
opiejeanne
A talking head on MSNBC quoted one of the idiot sons saying their father ” was in good spirits”.
In good spirits.
I rolled my eyes so hard that it hurt.
opiejeanne
@Betty Cracker: Banana bread doesn’t have to be pretty. I usually grow zucchini for zucchini bread but this year things didn’t germinate easily, and the slugs got the one plant I set out.
Splitting Image
@opiejeanne:
Good to know. Nothing qualifies a man for the White House like being in good spirits.
Cacti
I saw that the North Carolina R candidate for governor said there’s no place for violence in American politics following today’s events.
Just days after he gave a speech in a church saying “some folks need killing”.
What a fucker.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: We made a couple of trays of eggplant parm, which is the mister’s favorite.
I’ve never heard of green pea bread, but I like peas, and I like bread…
OGLiberal
@guachi: Read some stuff on the FEC site and it appears minors can donate, with certain stipulations:
*done knowingly and voluntarily
*use own funds
*can’t use funds from a gift
YY_Sima Qian
This is a time where I wish “China speed” is not a thing:
eversor
found some cigars will smoke one and hope that clams me down
NotMax
@YY_Sima Qian
Trivia:
Set of porcelain flow blue dinner service made in China in the 18th century (maybe early 19th?) on display in the State Department pictures Washington, Jefferson, etc., bewigged, frock coated and and all. The persons who painted the plates, cups and serving vessels, however, had no facial references to consult so those depicted all have unmistakably Asian features.
YY_Sima Qian
@NotMax: There was the whole chinoiserie aesthetic that was the rage in the 17th – 19th centuries.
Tony Jay
I just woke up.
I take it Project Veritas are frantically shredding all of the minutes from the meeting where they told new interns “Trump’s campaign needs some kind of big bang event to make people forget he’s an asshole. Ideas?”
Like I said. I just woke up.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Borderlands America is not a game, it’s here for real. Next will be AI dispensers for med kits and firearms.
Hi, Betty! :)
NotMax
@YY_Sima Qian
Even more trivia:
The dishware is displayed in a period breakfront.
It’s well-established such furnishing used glass separated into 13 sections to honor the 13 colonies, but since the exact design for this piece of furniture in lost to history the decision was made to substitute a screen of chicken wire.
Jay
@eversor:
The nicotine will slow your heart rate.
Roberto el oso
The speculation I read (over at LGM) is that the $15 donation to ActBlue, which was apparently made on the day Biden was inaugurated, was because Crooks lost a bet regarding the election.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Day Two of my Dark Brandon 2024 sign in the front yard. Noticed several vehicles slowing down and looking as they were passing by but no comments. The local kids discovered that they trigger the eyes to flash red when they go by so guess what the new game in the hood was this evening?
Even better was one boy had a voice changer that made him sound like Bob from Prometheus & Bob and he was providing lots of funny stuff…lol!
opiejeanne
@Splitting Image: It annoyed me because it’s a phrase usually reserved for someone recovering from something major, like actually getting shot, or a delicate operation to remove a tumor from the brain. Right now my husband has a really big surgical wound on his arm, the result of a Mohs procedure. He snort-laughed when I asked him if he was in good spirits.
I suppose getting shot at could be considered major, and I’m just glad TFG isn’t dead or badly wounded.
opiejeanne
@Odie Hugh Manatee: i just saw an article about vending machines for ammo, in Oklahoma, Alabama, and Texas.
opiejeanne
@NotMax: I thought the 13 panels of glass was a Chippendale thing.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@opiejeanne:
Yup… Borderlands America, when you need ammo and need it now you can hit the dispenser.
Just like the game. Idiocracy, here we come!
LanceThruster
Kristi Noem will require them in pet and feed stores.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
AFAIK, originated by Chippendale and some time later conveniently incorporated by American furniture craftspeople as a fillip to national pride.
LanceThruster
@opiejeanne: – to be honest, on a gut level, I didn’t care one way or another. He’s had a good run, gives no thought himself for any of those who died because his actions or inaction, and if/when he returns to office, his enabling of genocide and war crimes will be seamless.
In the sense standards of morality, or what could it mean as far as potential long term consequences, yeah… that’s a real toxic stew.
I recall a meme that applies.
“Can it really be that bad if a time traveller doesn’t show up to stop me?”
LanceThruster
The memes of Jebus protecting the one he sent to save America will be off the hook. You think they were delusional before, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
evodevo
@Cacti: Well, obviously, it wasn’t HIS political party members he was meaning in his comment LOL….now we know who he REALLY meant…
WereBear
@LanceThruster: It’s not easy running a cult of personality, especially if a person has none.
Jim Jones turned to those chicken-liver-healings to boost attendance. Manson escalated to random murder.
Something scary and dangerous like this will turn off those with a scrap of sanity left to protect, but the cultists will go deeper.
NotMax
@WereBear
Hale-Bopp cultists were rushed, so limited to matching sneakers, iIRC.
WereBear
@NotMax: To be fair, they already gave up a lot to get to that point.
Tony Jay
Just glanced at the FTF Guardian’s coverage of yesterday’s outbreak of Red On Red political violence and, yup, there’s reason bajillion why I hold that rag’s entire editorial cabal in the most necrotic contempt.
Assassination Attempt! Fist-Pump! Hide the shooter’s political associations! More Fist-Pump with added blood and resolute chin!
Meanwhile, quote assholes ragging on Biden while insisting the poor old guy has ‘struggled’ in appearances since Debataggeddon!
I’m off the pub. I assume that when I check back in the corporate media will have found some convoluted way to consign political party membership and whatever written statement the shooter left behind to the ‘unconfirmed rumour’ bin, while running hard with ‘America’s Hunt For Answers – Who are Act Blue and what else connects this shadowy money laundering operation to the assassin?’ headlines.
Bad people doing bad things never rest. It’s shift work, and the bonuses are what keep them churning.
Suzanne
@Splitting Image: Bethel Park is one of the Pittsburgh South Hills suburbs. Just a couple of miles down the road. This is freaky.
Steeplejack
@Tony Jay:
Which British paper do you like?
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Odie Hugh Manatee: And we’ve got someone who’s convinced he’s Handsome Jack. To the extent that he thinks that he’s the Big Hero, which justifies every horrible thing he does.
Chris Johnson
@opiejeanne: Yeah, I unironically am glad the guy’s OK. Not as much because I care about whether he’s happy, but because we need a steady hand on the tiller as we begin to suggest that things like assault rifles should be banned…
I’m not surprised the guy was a young registered Republican gun nut with a shirt from a gun channel that looks weirdly Nazi. I’m still expecting that his motivations were betrayal over Trump turning away from the Project 2025 wishlist.
This is a real danger of all the conspiracy crap, all the ‘everything is doomed, we’re all in hell, the country is about to erupt into civil war, everything is controlled booga booga booga’.
It’s not at all true, and when people believe that they act crazier than when they accept that it’s just a big mess from people who don’t agree on anything and that there’s nothing to be done about those fundamental contradictions.
I mean, there is something to be done. Joe Biden wins elections and then represents all the people, including when they don’t agree, to the best of his ability. I think this is a good time to keep people like Donald Trump safe by dialing down all the crazy. It’s not helping him, or us.
WereBear
@Chris Johnson: The shirt is apparently from a far-right group.
It’s the Secret Service’s total incompetence with a situation they let develop that should concern us now.
Unless Trump is a “Typhoid Mary” carrier of the Dunning-Kruger virus. I can see his followers giving in and letting him have his way.
Tony Jay
@Steeplejack:
None. They’re all different flavours of the same garbage, geared towards managing the specific biases of their readership profiles into ‘safe’ political action.
Might as well ask me which is my favourite wrestler. 🤷🏼♂️
Sorry for being such a grumpy fuck. Maybe I should take Cole’s advice. It’s hard, though, when I always envisage him in a set of tie-dyed dungarees riding a lawnmower down Route 66.
Chris Johnson
The one thing I’m pretty sure off: there’s ketchup on the walls of the Kremlin.
Not like THAT! Not right NOW! Not wearing that SHIRT! The guy didn’t even have the common decency to be in blackface. The last thing they need is to schism over whether Trump is betraying their most precious values, and that’s a real danger for them. Extremist right-wing conspiracy nuts schism. All the propaganda that goes into keeping them on the boil can go wrong if they’re not all kept strictly aligned, and Trump has pretty openly repudiated Project 2025.
I’m seeing some references to the shooter being a groyper (Nick Fuentes fan), Fuentes having claimed recently that Jews control Donald Trump. That seems like a pretty striking failure to keep all the right wingers aligned. Trump may be regretting cultivating guys like Fuentes now.
Chris Johnson
@Tony Jay: That image is American as fuck, and I love it and I love you for suggesting it <3
Also, good morning! We’re all still here, even Trump, and Joe Biden is still President and is still not acting crazy :)
cmorenc
@Splitting Image:
The particular part they’ll most quickly “memory hole” is that the shooter was a registered Republican.
Slightly_peeved
@Tony Jay:
Even if you can’t believe in British journalism, you can believe in Joe Hendry.
Barbara
@Suzanne: One of my cousins is a Trump fan who lives in Butler. We don’t keep in regular contact (I abandoned FB after he threatened to shoot people who wouldn’t stop dissing Trump because in his view they were inciting a civil war). I have no idea whether he was there last night.
ETA: My great aunts lived in Bethel Park. Don’t have a sense of what it’s like anymore.
Chris Johnson
@cmorenc: Not just any, if it turns out he was a groyper. I wouldn’t even class those guys as Republicans. Right wing, yeah, just a bit o_O
Elizabelle
No information yet on the individual killed by the shooter?
Props to the LA Times for NOT going w the photo of TFG raising his fist. Which is precisely the one the FTF Vichy NYTimes went with.
WereBear
@Elizabelle: They have to notify and do some things before that gets released.
Suzanne
@Barbara: It’s a fairly upper-middle-class suburb…..lots of houses in the $500-700K range. Pretty Republican and white. The closest Target is there, and a decent-sized mall, and the YMCA. Very little is notable about it.
Elizabelle
Interestingly, the WaPost comments section is back to more normal commenters and style. Not much sympathy for TFG, given his violent rhetoric. Not the swarms of antiBiden vitriol. Those days really seemed like an overwhelming attack to me.
Elizabelle
@WereBear: Yes. What an ignominous way to go, too.
Barbara
@Suzanne:
My aunts moved there when it was still mostly farmland. They had a summer cottage that they winterized, and the suburbs grew up around them in the 60s.
WereBear
@Elizabelle: I wonder if it will have a chilling effect for rally attendance.
And will the Convicted Felon keep doing rallies, based on how cowardly he is?
Elizabelle
Betty Cracker: enjoy that banana bread! And may more eggplant parm be in your future.
JWR
From NBC, good! These lowlifes were really getting on my nerves.
Further down in the story, there’s this bit of hypocrisy:
Aww, poor babies. Someone should tell them it’s language like that that butters their bread.
delphinium
@Betty Cracker: It looks good to me! Love banana bread.
Suzanne
@JWR: They had no problem with crosshairs rhetoric when it was Gabrielle Giffords in them.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: Beauty is in the eye of our tastebuds :)
evodevo
@Suzanne: Or when Sister Sarah used the imagery to target other Dem candidates…
Barbara
@JWR: Marjorie Taylor Greene routinely threatens political opponents with a second amendment response. Some guy in NY heard her and became so distraught he left a series of messages with escalating threats of violence. He spent at least a year in jail.
Tony Jay
@Chris Johnson:
“Sir. Do you realise you were doing 45 on a busy freeway while riding… that?”
Cole removes ‘Bey Bey/Tay Tay : 20 Thirt-ay 2’ sunhat, presses pause on his 8-track, and as the decibel heavy bass of ‘I Love You, You Love Me’ diffuses across the cornfields of Gatlin, Nebraska, points down at the West Virginia licence plate duct-taped to the front of the ‘mower.
“Oh! Oh! Sir, God Bless you, I’m sorry. I didn’t realise. May the Mustard be with you, Sir.”
Fade 2 Black.
Princess
Political violence, even when directed against a man who has called for political violence repeatedly, damages all of us and the democracy we want to save.
Looks like the would-be assassin (what else would you call this but an assassination attempt? I don’t get the parsing of this) was most likely a further right than Trump Republican. Look for the investigation promised by Preacher Johnson to go the way of the investigation into the SCOTUS leaker, fast.
Suzanne
@Princess: I’m guessing that he will have incoherent political beliefs. He was young and didn’t have a long voting history.
There’s a lot of white gun humpers around here. Makes me incredibly nervous.
ETA: Absolutely agree with you w/r/t the damaging nature of political violence. This is a terrible thing to have happened.
Tony Jay
@Slightly_peeved:
I don’t know what I’m believing in, but I’m firm in my belief, and it’s in that!
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker: I would have a piece
gene108
Considering how terrified some Republicans are about upsetting their voters, I wonder how this murder attempt on Trump will make them more compliant in doing what extremists want.
As far as this going down the memory home, I’m waiting for the shooter being posthumously diagnosed with an unnamed mental illness that caused him to do this. His political affiliation therefore doesn’t matter, it’s the “mental illness” that caused him to do it.
Princess
@Tony Jay: That’s…beautiful. *wipes tear from eye
Princess
@Suzanne: It would be worth us/someone paying attention to what’s going on with this group of early twenties white guys. Sounds like he’s at least the demographic of the white young men Kay often talks about in Ohio.
WereBear
And we haven’t even gotten to the conventions yet.
Barbara
@Princess: Agreed. Definitely not minimizing or excusing. Pointing out the rank hypocrisy and endless stoking of violent imagery routinely used by Republican politicians is not the same as minimizing violence that ends up being aimed in their direction.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
More like the fact that there is a Project 2025 at all, Trump was appealing to the conspiracy theorists and stuff like 2025 makes him part of the conspiracy.
We’re well over the Wingnut Event Horizon, and this is RiechWing Hawking Radiation so I will speculate the shooter’s declared motivations will make utterly no sense to us; like he had this revelation that Trump’s red tie showed Dumb Hands is under mind control of a Deep State alien brain slug. Also, head shot attempt, so the shooter was a gamer. We will find out the Secret Service shot him while he was bunny hoping to evade return fire.
Suzanne
@Princess: Dude, absolutely. I see people like this all the time here. (Not just limited to the twenties cohort, either…. I’m in my mid-forties and some of these are my peers. The guy who broke into my house naked while hopped up on meth is very much this type.)
If I had to bet, this is the same type of guy who wears his Oakley sunglasses and poses in his truck for his picture for his dating app profile. No college, no real animating motivation other than resentment (or, as Tom Nichols more accurately describes, ressentiment) that it isn’t all easier, that the defined path to success isn’t there.
Princess
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: After every shooting of national significance, the press, the fbi, the police, we ourselves, always talk about figuring out the motive like it is going to bring us some closure or that if we understand, we can fix something. And if you look back, very very rarely do we ever get a motive. We can see no reasons because there are no reasons.
He did it because he could, because the country is awash in guns. That’s it.
Tony Jay
@WereBear:
Odds to oddballs they preview an entire range of Trump Defence Guard combat-gear and accessories in sexy red and black at the convention, with units of hulking sted-heads modelling the various ranks and styles (from Assault Group Leader down to Assault Guard) at every entrance and choke point.
Then the wounded hero himself comes out on stage wearing the National Leader – TDG variant and starts tossing T-branded armbands into the crowd.
NYT reports “enthusiasm is high following the Leader’s brush with death…”
The oldies never really go out of fashion.
JWR
@Barbara: I’ll bet MTG is one of the clowns bitching about a Dem misappropriating her schtick. God, how do these people live with themselves? [he asked rhetorically]
eclare
@Chris Johnson:
I love that image too!
badgirl
@LanceThruster: Just got up, read this, snorted coffee all over my keyboard. Thanks Obama!
NeenerNeener
@Princess: And…if he succeeded it would make him famous.
Liminal Owl
@Chris Johnson: When we saw the news, Spouse and I first were expressing hopes that the shooter wouldn’t be “one of us.” And I said it would be very interesting if he turned out to be a Republican angry about Trump’s “betrayal” on abortion.
And now a news comment that mentioned Steubenville, OH is not far away has me wondering (THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION) about connections to Franciscan University. If anybody wants the background on that, please ask.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Probably because of the topic, I briefly misread that as “open threat.”
dmsilev
@JWR: Remember the GOP screaming because people were so impolite to point out Sarah Palin using red crosshairs in ads just around the time Gabby Giffords was shot?
Those hypocrites can go fuck themselves.
lowtechcyclist
@Princess:
Yeah, that’s pretty much my takeaway too. We need to bring an end to this plague of guns.
We’d had an assault weapons ban, back when it would still do some good. Fuck the GOP of 2004 for blocking the renewal of the ban. By now, any meaningful ban would have to deal with the millions of assault weapons already out there, which is a much heavier lift than just banning their sale. And Lord knows that’s a heavy enough lift all by itself.
TBone
Adam Parkhomenko xit
@AdamParkhomenko
“When right-wing scum tried to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, Republicans made excuses.
When a lunatic beat Paul Pelosi with a hammer, they made jokes.
And when Trump sent a mob to attack the Capitol, they made up lies.
Don’t lecture us about condemning violence.”
BretH
My son says the shirt is from one of the most benign gun YouTube channels. Like a laid back dude who just shoots interesting weapons without any political messages.
different-church-lady
@JWR:
Gee, um, could it be that… it was entirely media driven and the media now has a new toy?
TBone
Turn Your Banned Guns Into Cash after the passage of gun control law works well.
People accepted strict DUI laws immediately. Gun control is what’s for breakfast today.
eclare
@different-church-lady:
So true…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Trump sent that mob to kill Republicans, it was Trump that went there first telling them that it was okay to kill Right Wing Politicians who didn’t pass the purity test.
Princess
@Liminal Owl: I want background on this. I have third hand connections to both Steubenville and Bethel so I am alert.
stacib
@TBone: The ONLY reason they will turn their guns in for cash is to go buy bigger guns. I was in Walmart getting a fishing license right after Obama was elected. One guy bought ALL the ammunition that Walmart had in stock because Obama is going to whatever, whatever, whatever. We’ll never get these folks to even have a serious conversation about guns.
Rusty
I expect at the Republican convention the crowds will be wearing bandages on their ears to match Trumps. Trump will wear his long after the ear has healed to continue to milk the issue. The truly devoted will have their ear surgically modified (by their best friend over the kitchen sink) to match Trumps.
I’m glad Trump is OK, no political violence is acceptable and this was an attack on our political system (as broken as it may be). I’m praying for the family and friends of the person killed, the two critical condition victims and their families and friends, the hospital workers caring for them, and everyone traumatized at the rally yesterday. There were families and children. I’m even praying for Trumps healing and for Trump’s family, Baron almost last his father as did Trumps other children.
JWR
@different-church-lady: Yeah, funny (not funny) how that works. But damn, the media will be the death of us all.
ETA fixed for errors.
different-church-lady
Just thinking out loud, based on a condition of the Boston Marathon bombing.
One of the mystifying things at first about that bombing was, “Why the Boston Marathon? There’s no political significance to that event.” Turns out it was a matter of convenience: the assholes lived in Boston and they had been thinking the Fourth of July on the Esplanade, but the finished the bombs sooner so they took the first big public event they could.
Most of the time political assassinations are guys who just go crackers, who pick a target based on making a big impression. If so this time, it might also have been a matter of convenience. (Think Arthur Bremer: he wanted Nixon but couldn’t get near him so he settled for Wallace.) Trump held a rally nearby first, so Trump it was. Had Biden held a rally there it might have been Biden.
Again, just spitballing, but what I’m saying is that if he was delusional/paranoid as so many are, then there would be no consistency to be found between his politics and his target.
zhena gogolia
@Rusty: You are a better person than I am.
I’ve been trying all night to pray. I’ve given up on thinking for the moment. Prayer is all that’s left.
different-church-lady
@JWR: I probably should have said new drug instead of new toy.
different-church-lady
No, you’re glad Trump is alive. He hasn’t been OK for decades.
Chris Johnson
@BretH: I follow Xanderhal on youtube and he’s a kid who is a gun fan, like you describe, but also a diehard Biden supporter.
I remember him during the last year at some point talking about a gun channel that he used to really like, which has taken a swerve into hard-right ideology, kinda stealth wingnut. He lamented this specifically because he really wants to watch left wing or at least centrist gun channels, because HE is a gun fan. But he’s having problems because they’re swerving hard right, and he outlined some specific tells that he objected to.
I don’t have time right now but I probably should go and try and find that video of his. I distinctly remember it, because I don’t agree with Xan on guns, so I was humoring him, grumpily, and I paid attention.
The way Xan is, he could well post a video on how his suspicions were vindicated and that channel really was sus, IF it was that channel I’m thinking of. He’s going to be distressed at the renewed emphasis on gun control, but he was already finding fault with specifically ‘innocuous gun channels’ and said that there weren’t any left that weren’t grooming people into right wingers.
Chris Johnson
@different-church-lady: More like a new challenge. It’s an opportunity but they’ve got to turn it to Trump’s advantage, and heightening the divisiveness on the Right might not be a way to do that so they’re stumped.
Cacti
The shooter’s photos were of a mullet-head who could probably tell you exactly how much meth you can get for a stolen catalytic converter.
trnc
@Splitting Image:
On the contrary – the only thing about it that they’ll memory hole the “registered republican” part, as sure as they will admonish both sides for political violence even though no examples of democratic office holders or candidates have promoted or celebrated exist (AFAIK).
different-church-lady
Gonna seed this right here right now.
“There’s only one candidate in this race who wants to do something about gun violence. And it’s not Trump.”
Eyeroller
@Chris Johnson: I am afraid to do much searching for this picture of the perp that everyone is discussing because the images I find on Google are all of heroic Trump sneering and fist-pumping with a little blood on his face. (There wasn’t really all that much blood so I assume that if there was a bullet at all and not just flying glass, it did just barely graze his ear.)
trnc
Did he, though? /s
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Cacti: I’m not especially awash in sympathy for the kid, but have you ever tried not being an asshole?
Cacti
@different-church-lady: There’s one party who regularly uses violent, eliminationist rhetoric about their political opponents, and it’s not the Democrats.
JWR
@trnc: Damn straight! This “both sides” BS has really gotten out of control. /on both sides. ;)
TBone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: yup, and then they said it was ANTIFA, and then they said it was a merely a peaceful tourist visit, and now these treasonous fucks are hailing J6ers as patriotic political prisoners.
Putin also does fantastic propaganda.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@TBone: None of them have to be true because none of them are true. A convenience-first rhetorical stance, brilliant.
trnc
It’s definitely helping him as long as he doesn’t suffer any more critical violence.
PsiFighter37
Been a while since I posted, but this should really (IMO) kill the silly discussion about ditching Biden. Media attention is going to be consumed by the shooting – they love chasing the shiniest object in the room. The only way to run against Trump here is going to be continuing to hammer him for the wannabe fascist he is. I also suspect Republicans will overreact and start accusing Biden of orchestrating the whole thing, which will mean that Democrats will have no choice but to back him up.
We shall see. Why a 20 year-old Republican decided to try and off Trump is a mystery to me.
TBone
@stacib: we don’t need
amore conversation. We didn’t allow alcoholics to chime in about the strict new DUI laws that were passed. I’m not saying every gun nut will turn in his weapons, I’m advocating a good start.Geminid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I wandered into some “Groyper” accounts on social media the day after Trump disavowed Project 25 and it was a very hot topic.
Some sided with Fuentes, and said this was proof that Trump had been “captured” by the globalists who control the Republican Party, and was betraying the MAGA movement. Others said, not so fast, Trump’s just lying and being tactical, and he still believes in the MAGA strategy.
I thought the second group had it right, but it was an intense debate; these folks were riled up over the issue.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: gaslighting is how they excel.
I hope they choke on it.
Eyeroller
@PsiFighter37: What do you mean Republicans “will” start blaming Biden. That started immediately.
Cacti
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Have you paused to think for a moment “I hate an anonymous internet person so much, I’m taking sides with someone who literally just committed murder”.
Maybe you should step outside and get some air.
Marleedog
@108
A young Republican in other words.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Eyeroller: I informed my parents. My dad immediately started screaming about Democrats causing this by, inaccurately according to him, pointing out Trump’s tyrannical tendencies.
trnc
That was a stupid thing for Biden to say. I doubt he meant it as literally as I think some repubs have when they’ve said it, but it isn’t any more defensible when he says it.
ETA: In fact, I hope he’ll apologize for it and challenge all politicians to be more careful with their rhetoric, given how easily available guns are to almost everyone.
Steeplejack
@Tony Jay:
Thanks. Guess I’ll continue to read The Guardian. You appear to, since you complain about it so much, and you don’t seem to mention the others at all.
gene108
@TBone:
I really wish the media would take this honest framing about political violence. It’s not going to happen, but a boy can dream.
Cacti
@trnc: Oh fuck that. There is no both sides to this.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’m sorry. That has to be SO hard to hear. I hope you don’t take it to heart. Like water off a duck’s back, let it roll off.
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
LOL, and no lie told!
different-church-lady
@PsiFighter37:
Oh you sweet summer child…
TBone
@gene108: 💙💜 I would not survive without a rich and varied fantasy life.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Cacti: I’m not siding with anyone except, perhaps, with people struggling with addiction as a group.
@TBone: It is severely obnoxious and when one tries to discuss the very real decades-long history of Republicans encouraging political violence the whatabouts start.
But since my example was January 6 the whatabouts were about Al Gore and Hillary Clinton supposedly not accepting their election results and their behavior being the same as January 6.
Sometimes there’s just no use.
sdhays
@Chris Johnson: I really have a hard time understanding why it is so hard for “gun fans” to both like guns as very dangerous toys and also accept some limitations on them. I mean, I’m not opposed to having shooting ranges where people can rent whatever floats their boat, but I don’t see why everyone’s safety should be sacrificed so that any moron can sleep with his legs wrapped around his AK-47 at night.
trnc
@Cacti:
I didn’t imply in any way that there is, but I see plenty of people here complain when wingnuts like Palin use it, and for good reason. That one comment from Biden doesn’t begin to come close to the amount of violent rhetoric from the right. Still, it should be stricken from political speech. There are plenty of ways to say that DT should be prevented from gaining office again.
WereBear
My own first thought.
different-church-lady
@sdhays: I mean, I drink a lot of alcohol, but that doesn’t mean I think everyone should have unrestricted access to it.
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
Yeppers to that!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@PsiFighter37: The movement to replace Biden still has real estate on the NYT homepage.
trnc
@sdhays:
They’ve been told for decades now that any limitation is tantamount to erasing all of our freedoms. Ironically, this was first amplified by the NRA after their hard lurch away from promoting responsible gun ownership.
Eyeroller
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: They are not going to give that up until Biden is nominated, and then they’ll snipe at him. They’re trying to get Trump elected.
trnc
@TBone:
That’s great. Thanks.
sdhays
Another thought I had after the reports indicating incompetence by the local police:
Well, the odds that the Butler, PA police department was going to get paid for their work last night were already low before someone took a shot at Trump, but now they should just write it off. He’s definitely never going to pay them now.
TBone
Last night’s Comment of the Evening:
“Play fascist games, win fascist prizes.”
My cousin in Michigan was similarly unimpressed, and she’s not even from DelCo (although her gentle mother is). I was once driving past a convenience store in Chester, stopped at a red light, when two guys came out arguing. One guy popped the other with a handgun to the temple in broad daylight. Exploded like a watermelon. I PUT MY HEAD DOWN first and then ran the red light, praying!
Eyeroller
@WereBear: Somebody mentioned QAnon or similar conspiracy theories as possible motivators. Also as Geminid and others have noted, Fuentes has suggested that the Jews are controlling Trump. For the perp’s demographic I doubt abortion would be a big motivator.
different-church-lady
@TBone: Also: don’t lecture us about condemning violence because WE ALREADY FUCKIN’ DO THAT.
Eyeroller
@different-church-lady: I don’t think it’s meant to lecture us, it is an attempt to set a framing to counter the narrative that is settling in.
RaflW
CNN mentioned overnight that the US has had at least 293 mass shootings so far this year (defined as 4 or more people hit by a bullet). In 196 days.
Even stepping out of the “which way was the shooter aligned” specu-drama, the horrifying reality is that the longstanding NRA — and GOP — line that moar guns is always better (self protection? a ‘polite’ society?) is utter dystopian hogwash.
TBone
@different-church-lady: Hugs! Your comments give me life 💙
TBone
@Eyeroller: oh no. Rethugs came out IMMEDIATELY blaming The Left for violent rhetoric. Immediately.
different-church-lady
@RaflW: “But none of those involved Trump, so they were all just water on the tree of liberty.”
Eyeroller
@TBone: And the media is already starting to call Trump a “martyr.”
TBone
@Eyeroller: nauseating. I’m not tuning in for that bullshit.
All those “Jesus saved him” FREAKS forgot about Jesus directing the bullet into someone else’s skull, apparently.
different-church-lady
@Eyeroller: I wasn’t saying TBone was lecturing us, I was adding to the rebuttal to Republicans TBone quoted.
Made a minor punctuation edit to make that more clear.
WereBear
@Eyeroller: I figured it was Project 2025 related.
different-church-lady
@Eyeroller: Don’t you have to die to achieve that status?
JWR
@PsiFighter37:
Maybe there’s a “manifesto” out there.
@trnc:
Agreed, and agree that he should probably apologize. Maybe issue a retraction. But as has been been pointed out these last 3 weeks, Biden’s a gaffe machine.
Tony Jay
@Steeplejack:
It is what it is. The rest of the UK media are either tabloids, Murdoch outlets, actually worse than Murdoch outlets or The Independent, which is owned by a Russian oligarch and is pretty much unreadable online.
With the FTF Guardian there’s a major “what crap are the wankers trying to spoon-feed the centre-left today?” thing going on, and their terrible coverage of the US is part of that.
Eyeroller
@WereBear: If he was a Fuentes fan–which we don’t yet know but he’s in the right demographic for that–nope, more likely that “Jews” are controlling everybody. It’s always the Jews somehow.
different-church-lady
@JWR: I’m sure, as a nation, we’ll tackle turns-of-phrase long before we tackle gun violence.
WereBear
@different-church-lady: That’s the beauty of Calvinball Jesus.
Eyeroller
@JWR: It’s such a common and everyday expression, though. I don’t think he should apologize, just make sure not to use it again (which I’m certain he won’t.). He didn’t print up posters with a picture of a physical bullseye around Trump’s head, unlike some Republicans have done.
TBone
@different-church-lady: ugh. They’ll never let him die, just like both JFKs.
TBone
@WereBear: 😆👍
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@different-church-lady: Sounds like an attack on you, personally.
Eyeroller
@different-church-lady: Never apologize, mister, it’s a sign of weakness. — John Wayne (She Wore a Yellow Ribbon)
TBone
I might round up every Rethuglican’s “Family Christmas” photo shoot that prominently features assault weapons of war and use them as postcards.
WereBear
@Eyeroller: There’s been recent discussion of Trump disavowing P2025 and the war this triggered in the R party.
I figured problems would come from the Q side.
RaflW
We can see one of the break points where the GOP really showed it had disconnected from reality (or decided to ‘make their own’):
After Reagan was shot, while he continued to speak in favor of general gun ownership, he was clearly opposed to assault style weapons, and was said to have helped as former POTUS in passing the Clinton era gun control laws.
Roughly a dozen years after Regan helped pass the Brady bill, GOP Majority Whip Steve Scalise got shot and remained steadfastly pro-any-guns-whatsoever.
Scalise’s reaction to being close to being killed by a gun has always struck me as bizarre, but it’s also a pivot moment when Republican gun nuttery seemed to ratchet up dangerously.
different-church-lady
@TBone: Do you need any seed money?
WereBear
@RaflW: We know the answer to “Your money or your life.”
TBone
@different-church-lady: 😊😆
OH and now I remember that video ad one rethug freak put out of himself SWAT teaming a home, guns ablaze!
different-church-lady
@WereBear: “I’M THINKING IT OVER!”
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
A lot of us make our own seed…
Eyeroller
@WereBear: I doubt a 20-year-old groyper would understand that. It’s possible, though, that Fuentes thinks that “the Jews” are making Trump disavow it.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: and nobody likes my dick jokes, she said, dejectedly.
😆
Another Scott
@trnc: The reporting I saw said that it was in a July 8 “letter to donors”. I haven’t seen it. It wasn’t in his July 8 letter to House Democrats that I’ve posted here a few times (I just checked).
Always, always, beware the ellipsis.
Biden won’t let them both-sides gun violence.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
RaflW
@different-church-lady: I get the cynicism, but there’s a reason 80% of Americans want at least*some* gun control.
Campaigning on the unresponsiveness of Republicans to do anything on this issue could be a wedge, especially after someone was killed and others shot at one of his rallies.
TBone
A favorite meme.
Photo of a granny, sitting in protest. Sign says:
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@TBone: See your dick jokes are just fine. You don’t need to be comparing your dick jokes to all the others or getting your ideas of what a dick joke should be from the internet.
Eyeroller
@RaflW: We’ll see. The immediate media response has been to lionize Trump’s “defiance.” They ache so to serve a strongman (who in reality is quite weak).
It’s been pointed out that the cops couldn’t really do anything about the guy (presumably he was outside the security perimeter) since Pennsylvania is an open-carry state. We could perhaps hammer on that.
Chief Oshkosh
@gene108:
As someone here once said, then Republicans use the “he was crazy and therefore…” excuse, the best rejoinder is “So why do you want criminally insane people to have guns?”
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Because criminally insane people vote.
trnc
@Another Scott:
Good to know, and that’s better than if he said it at a rally or some such thing. Still, that word and a few others should disappear from political discourse, regardless of how innocently it is intended.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@trnc: So much of our political rhetoric invokes violence people don’t even notice. “Fight” is a huge offender that flies under the radar all the time from probably every politician.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Tony Jay:
Heh heh, you kill me. Oops, that might not be the best word choice. I’ll come in again…
trnc
And neither of those would matter if guns weren’t so easily available.
zhena gogolia
@trnc: He probably will.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack: I canceled the Guardian. They’ve been execrable on Biden.
Barbara
@Eyeroller: Hmm. It’s usual for presidential security to work with local authorities to scope out possible rooftop vantage points and take measures to prevent access. I don’t know the venue but I am surprised that even a cursory check of that sort didn’t occur. In reality, I do think that there is a tendency to believe that Republicans are unlikely to be the target of these kinds of threats. Remember Trump telling security on J6 to stop using metal detectors because the attendees weren’t a threat to him?
Barbara
@zhena gogolia: For a long time. They are tone deaf in the extreme, and that’s being charitable. They seem to go out on them way to give a platform to David whatshisname.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
I saw that last night. Somebody commenting on it pointed out that Felonious D joked about the attack on Paul Pelosi multiple times. MTG said Nancy Smash should be executed for treason.
Thus, the Reich wing noise machine response to this is, sadly, entirely predictable.
Sigh.
Bupalos
@Chris Johnson: People always do this ‘motivation’ dance and the primary motivation is always actually that the person is mentally ill. Then we dress up narratives around that.
the shooter could absolutely be a psycho from any “political alignment.”
Eyeroller
@Barbara: People were wondering about that in (I think) the thread from yesterday evening. Years and years ago some President, maybe Poppy Bush, visited my workplace, which has a lot of buildings close together, and the Secret Service and whatever other security positioned somebody on every single rooftop with a line of sight.
sdhays
@Barbara: This is a really good point.
Chris T.
Nothing, of course. Therefore, they should give the AI the ability to fire off the ammo as someone stands there in front of the machine.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: 😆
Barbara
@Eyeroller: Yep. For instance, my graduation at the UVA had at least one sharpshooter on every rooftop when GWHB spoke. I didn’t go, it was such a zoo.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: try not to feel bad about the onslaught, since it won’t cease. I got called an asshole here right away because I wasn’t sufficiently concerned. I’ll always remain unconcerned about the well being of fascists. It’s in my DNA.
Remember, Dotard called for the execution of General Milley.
Also too, “heads on pikes.”
He’s tried to have his mob sicced on every prosecutor and judge and their families as well.
Except that one lady in Florida.
Chris T.
@Chris Johnson:
I as well, if only because if he were taken out, the R’s would nominate someone (Haley? probably not) at their convention and that person would be considerably more of a blank slate for Mushy Middle “I don’t know if I want to vote for cake or death” types in November.
(That’s the one conspiracy theory that appeals to me here, that someone wanting Project 2025 to succeed thought the best way would be Felon Martyrdom.)
Eyeroller
@Bupalos: The one thing we do know is that he was a registered Republican and voted in 2022. He made a $15 contribution to ActBlue when Biden was inaugurated, but could have been several reasons for that, such as losing a bet.
Eyeroller
@Chris T.: Some press (FTF Politico) are calling him a “martyr” for a nick on his ear. Needless to say, lots of claims that God intervened to save his chosen one (and allowed some unimportant schlub to die in his place).
The craziest take I’ve seen yet was from a “DEI expert” at Forbes (got this from DougJ): “Will Surviving Gunfire be Trump’s Next Appeal to Black Voters?”
Also stories–take them with a grain of salt given how much rumor and gossip often turns out to be false–that the same Doom and Gloom Caucus that wants to get rid of Biden is now sure that Trump will win no matter what. So I guess the “Replace Biden” movement is fizzling out. Not even Johnny Unbeatable can defeat him now, I suppose.
Mike E
@Eyeroller: antisemitism is the LaZboy recliner of bigotry: it fits every tired ass
different-church-lady
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
No no, don’t trouble yourself…
Eolirin
@Bupalos: By any clinical definition, no no they fucking are not.
Very few mass shooters would meet the definition for any mental health condition nor do they have any history of mental health conditions
You can fuck right off with this bigoted bullshit
Being filled with rage and having a cultural permission structure for committing violence is not the same thing as having a mental health condition. FFS
Miss Bianca
FWIW, one of those bullet vending machines is going into at least one store in Colorado as well, up in Buena Vista, not too far from me. Yeah, this will end well…
Liminal Owl
@Princess: oh, nice allusion there.
Tony Jay
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
No, no. We won’t be censored, and since they love that word so much anyway, there’s no problem. 👍👍👍
Princess
@Liminal Owl: Glad someone finally got that!
Gvg
@TBone: no they DID NOT ACCEPT STRICT DUI laws immediately. There was a decades long social influence and propaganda push lead by the families of victims that changed our culture and made it almost an anti climax when it was time to pass the laws. Remember that Prohibition failed dramatically because even though it had the votes for a Constitutional Amendment, it did not really have society behind it. It was too fast and too magical thinking.
Fixing guns in society really needs that kind of push like MADD did. Sure we can do a few things now to keep the worst of it from spiraling up, but then we need to plan the campaign to fix the whole issue. That means hammering out some goals with sane gun owners to weed out the threats. Working out penalties for not handling guns safely, loss of ownership when it’s shown you make threats, get drunk, have m certain kinds of mental health issues. A reasonable path for getting them back if you recover. Protecting the rights of those around you, not just the precious gun owner. Getting society on board with this. Getting insurance worked out and improving the supply of mental health care.
As I recall movies and TV helped MADD a lot eventually.
George
@JWR:
Jesus, Biden should apologize? Stop with that nonsense. Biden’s comment was fine. It is a commonly accepted phrase that most adults know is just a figure of speech.
Honestly, the way that some commenters here always fall back on Democrats and Biden being imperfect is low-level gaslighting. Apologies at this level in politics are a sign of weakness, and a Biden apology would become part of the growing false narrative surrounding the events of yesterday.
UncleEbeneezer
@PsiFighter37: It really highlights the fact that so much of “the conversation” whether it’s Gaza, The Debate™ and now this, are all just exercises in people who are bored/nervous, looking for something to obsessively talk about, ad nauseam.
Eolirin
@Gvg: We really need to stop pretending that improving mental health care will help with gun violence. It will help at the margins with suicide deaths. Though much less than just making it really hard to get guns.
Most completed suicides are from people do not have a history of mental health conditions. The numbers are even more stark when it comes to violence against others.
Rage, hate, fear and despair are normal human emotions. You don’t need to be mentally ill to have them. You don’t need to be mentally ill to experience them to an extreme that can lead to violence or self harm. You just need means, intensity, and enough of a cultural permission structure to go to that as a way of processing those feelings.
And that’s what’s normally happening. Even paranoid schizophrenics and people deep in psychosis are less likely to engage in violence than radicalized young white men who are pissed off that they have no job prospects and women don’t want to sleep with them. The young white men are not mentally ill by any measure.
Liminal Owl
@Princess: Franciscan University of Steubenville is one member of a small group ( four that I knew of in the ‘80s and ‘90s) of ultra-conservative Roman Catholic colleges in the US. Franciscan University was specifically the center of “pro-life” activism in the US then, though with a somewhat kinder and gentler face than others (only the front-facing, I’m sure they were just as nasty behind the rhetoric). I’d be willing to bet that they’re also more closely involved with attempts to ban contraception, and likely transphobia/gender persecution now although that wasn’t a noticeable part of the discourse when I was in touch with such things.
A close friend from those days teaches there now, but he and his spouse cut me off after they went Opus Dei, and my more distant connections atrophied long ago.
Now I just read up on those places and groups occasionally. I don’t know how much influence they have at a local level, but no doubt Thomas More Society and presumably Heritage Foundation connections are strong and close.
(Just to forestall: I’m not regarding Catholicism in general, nor American Christianity in general, as this level of conservative danger. And I won’t get into any such discussions.)
TBone
@Gvg: oh, really? I musta missed the mass protests AFTER THE LAWS WERE PASSED.
You don’t need to explain Drunks Against Mad Mothers to me. I started my local chapter.
Geminid
@TBone: This reminds me of when Virginia Democrats came out of the 2019 General Assembly elections with a majority in both houses. They had promised to enact gun safety legislation so there was quite a reaction. My county board of supervisors was one of a few dozen to declare our county a “Second Amentment Sanctury,” and when the General Assembly met in January well over 10,000 people showed up for a gun rights rally near the Capitol.
Democrats went on to pass 6 gun safety bills and Governor Northam signed them. The new laws went effect the folowing July and when I searched around for protests I could not find any reported.
Democrats here used to be very wary of centering gun control as a campaign issue. That started changing during the last decade, and in 2017 Northam and other other Democrats made gun safety a top issue alongside abortion rights and Medicaid expansion. This issue now works in our favor, particularly in the suburban areas where Virginia elections are won and lost.
TBone
@Geminid: thank you! It’s only impossible if you THINK thataway! 💙
Liminal Owl
@Eyeroller:
Might I ask what you’re basing that opinion on? IME the perp’s demographic would be a noticeable (though by no means majority) element in the antiabortion movement.
Liminal Owl
@WereBear: Nominated!
Bill Arnold
@Soprano2:
That was not a fist. That was a “show fist”. A fist is tight, with the thump reaching to the second finger. That image has the thumb resting next to the index finger, and facing partially out.
It would break if it hit anything hard.
Convicted felon Donald J.Trump has never known how to make a fist. A man that presents as macho, in his late 70s. There is only one DJT image I have found with a proper fist, where some Tae Kwon Do master, hungry for publicity, had Trump pose with him, and that master would not accept a fake fist. (I know such things including correction of posture/hand positions, having been taught by such a master.)
How to Make a Fist (wikiHow)
Liminal Owl
@Eolirin: Thank you for saying it.