Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

You cannot shame the shameless.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Consistently wrong since 2002

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

You are here: Home / Elections / But the good news is…

But the good news is…

by | 160 Comments

This post is in: ,

“But the good news for you is that I will not spend 30 minutes swaying back and forth to music.”

h/t Josie (also)

I hope all the mockery is eating him up inside.  Yes, I know that’s a terrible thing to say.

It’s a great speech from Bill Clinton – the video is the entire speech.

Funny how offensive it is when people refer to the orange guy as “President”, but it seems just fine when it’s Clinton or Obama, probably because they were fit to hold the office.

And here’s some even better news!

And just because I can…

DC Indictment News

Totally open thread.

Reader Interactions

160Comments

  1. 1.

    rk

    I hope all the mockery is eating him up inside.  Yes, I know that’s a terrible thing to say.

    Is it terrible? I don’t know. I start every day hoping that I’d read  that he’s had a stroke, and spends the rest of his miserable life fully aware of his surroundings but unable to speak.  At one time I would have felt bad about it, but not anymore. He’s vile filth as are his supporters. They all should rot. Why do bad people deserve our consideration and charity?

  2. 2.

    KatKapCC

    You know, Bill might look and sound a bit older, but he’s definitely still got it when it comes to these speeches

    Also, for anyone who starts watching, when the “low battery” message pops up in the tweet, it does go away after a bit.

  3. 3.

    WaterGirl

    @rk:

    Why do bad people deserve our consideration and charity?

    I don’t think it’s about them and what they deserve.  I think it’s about us and who we want to be.

  4. 4.

    Jackie

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t think it’s about them and what they deserve.  I think it’s about us and who we want to be.

    This! Well said, WaterGirl! 💙

  5. 5.

    Jackie

    BREAKING: Judge Chutkan has denied Trump’s effort to block a new dossier of Jack Smith’s evidence from becoming public. She says she will unseal it tomorrow.

    I’m looking forward to dropping off my ballot first thing tomorrow, running a few quick errands, then waiting in 🎶anticipation🎶 for the unsealing!!!

    Will tomorrow be the day TCFG strokes out?

  6. 6.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    I wish for Trump to spend the rest of his life in court. I doubt he will wind up in jail although he deserves it. Just defending himself against a long series of indictments, convictions and civil cases is good enough for me.

    [ETA it seems fitting too as he is the very definition of a vexatious litigant.]

  7. 7.

    frosty

    A big thank you to the commenter who posted a video link to Kamala’s takedown of the heckler earlier. Great timing, great comedic delivery, great facial expressions! She’s got talent!

    I read the WaPo story of her years in Montreal and she originally wanted to be a singer/actor/entertainer. She’s doing it now!l

  9. 9.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jackie: I read someplace it drops at 12am ET.  Y’know, the start of “tomorrow” in Chutkan’s court.  Since that’s 9pm PT, I’m somewhat anticipating the flood of people digging thru it for little compressed nuggets of Trump’s shit, compressed down into dirty brown diamonds.

  10. 10.

    waspuppet

    Funny how offensive it is when people refer to the orange guy as “President”, but it seems just fine when it’s Clinton or Obama, probably because they were fit to hold the office.

    When people say it about Clinton or Obama, or even Bush as much as I despise him, they’re honoring the fact that they used to be president. With Trump it’s memory care and denial that he lost. As you can tell because they call him “President Trump” and mostly call Biden “Biden.”

  14. 14.

    rk

    @WaterGirl:

    “I don’t think it’s about them and what they deserve.  I think it’s about us and who we want to be.”

    In my real life I don’t cause harm to people. But I have no problem wishing ill for Trump and assorted bad guys like Putin, Miller, Musk et al. They should all rot and suffer varying degrees of pain. This wishing comes from seeing how there are no consequences for any of them. My well of sympathy and kindness is completely dry as far as some humans are concerned.

  15. 15.

    Jackie

    @frosty:

    A big thank you to the commenter who posted a video link to Kamala’s takedown of the heckler earlier. Great timing, great comedic delivery, great facial expressions! She’s got talent!

    It wasn’t me, but I saw that, and burst out laughing and applauding!

    ”I’m sorry, but you’re at the wrong rally. The one you’re looking for is the smaller one down the street!”

    Paraphrasing exact statement, but it was a thing of beauty, and sure to stab TCFG where it hurts the most: His EGO!

  16. 16.

    Ishiyama

    I liked Bill Clinton’s speech, especially when he was explaining tariffs – but I wish somebody would think to tell the audience to look at the label of origin on the clothes they are wearing !

  17. 17.

    Scout211

    Charles P. Pierce in Esquire.

    At the end of the workday on Wednesday, Judge Tanya Chutkan dropped another little treat on the former president*’s lawyers. She ruled that their attempt to reopen the discovery process was largely DOA. The money quote is on page 19.

    In any event, the court is not persuaded that the USAO-DC prosecutors’ statements actually contradict the Government’s position in this case. It is entirely conceivable, for instance, that Defendant could share responsibility for the events of January 6 without such express authorization of rioters’ criminal actions that they could claim entrapment-by-estoppel or public authority defenses.

    It continues to appear that Judge Chutkan is deftly working her job within the parameters of John Roberts’s constitutionally heretical immunity decision. The defendant isn’t halfway out of the woods yet.

  18. 18.

    Bupalos

    Hey if we get down and anyone feels like giving up, watch the last 3 innings of the guards-yanks.
    also encourage listening to the guardians Espanol call from Carlos Baerga.

  22. 22.

    WaterGirl

    @Chet Murthy: Thank god that there’s at least one judge who truly believes that no one is above the law.

    And seems to understand the ridiculousness of Trump having delayed every possible thing for as long as possible and now complaining that it’s too close to the election. Like murdering your parents and asking for special treatment because you’re an orphan.

  25. 25.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @WaterGirl: Like murdering your parents and asking for special treatment because you’re an orphan.

    Ah, the dictionary definition of “chutzpah.”

  28. 28.

    Kent

    @WaterGirl:I don’t think it’s about them and what they deserve.  I think it’s about us and who we want to be.

    I want to be a person who never has to think about Trump ever again.

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    @notcapnamerica
    1h
    Bret Baier says he “made a mistake” when he played the wrong Trump clip during Kamala’s interview.

    oh my god, that is so lame.  these people are an embarrassment.

  30. 30.

    WaterGirl

    @MuellerSheWrote
    3h

    WOW: the guy accused of attempting to assassinate Donald has asked Judge Cannon to RECUSE because of Trump’s “repeated praise” of Judge Cannon, and that appearance of impartiality requires her to recuse.

    hahahahaha

  31. 31.

    Kent

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:I wish for Trump to spend the rest of his life in court. I doubt he will wind up in jail although he deserves it. Just defending himself against a long series of indictments, convictions and civil cases is good enough for me.

    I’ll be happy if he spends his last years hawking schlock to his last few faithful on the late night QVC channel while wearing an ankle bracelet.

    All while knowing that 95 cents of every dollar he earns goes towards the $1 billion plus civil judgements against him.

  33. 33.

    Jackie

    I don’t think former Haley supporters will bite:

    Donald Trump’s onetime ambassador and former primary rival, Nikki Haley, is in talks to join him on the campaign trail in an attempt to win over disaffected Republicans,” The Bulwark reports.

    “The details and dates for the joint appearance haven’t been fully worked out, but the likeliest scenario would put the two together at a town hall toward the end of the month, perhaps involving Fox News personality Sean Hannity.”

    “Facing a yawning gender gap, Trump’s campaign has hosted five other town halls moderated by female political figures since August, but none with the stature of Haley.”

    Haley supporters really don’t like DonOLD – mainly because she convinced them he was too OLD. And, Haley voters tend to be in the Never-Trump camp.

  34. 34.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I wish for Trump to spend the rest of his life in court. I doubt he will wind up in jail although he deserves it. Just defending himself against a long series of indictments, convictions and civil cases is good enough for me.

    It will be like he gets to preview hell in life.

  35. 35.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jackie: My first thought upon seeing this was: “Oooooooh nice [rubs hands together in glee]!!! She’s gonna set her career on FIRE!”

  38. 38.

    JoyceH

    I just hope that come 2025 and the Harris administration, the judiciary gets its ass in gear and proceeds with the long-delayed Trump trials. I want him to be convicted of at least one of the biggies, the insurrection or the National security, before he dies and the powers that be feel compelled to give his sorry ass a state funeral.

  41. 41.

    Kelly

    @Kent: Speaking of billion dollar settlements I read Musk was spouting off the sort of Dominion Voting Systems conspiracy bullshit that cost Fox most of a billion dollars. I’d be hilarious if he steps far enough over the line to get sued.

  44. 44.

    Jackie

    @Chet Murthy:

    if he dies under a Democratic Administration, i have a feeling he’s not going to get a state funeral.

    Hopefully you’re right! I don’t know if it can be avoided… 🤞🏻

  46. 46.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jackie: wikipedia says Nixon got a state funeral, but at his library in California.  My suspicion is that his cultists would not want a state funeral in Washington, because it would be mobbed by people like us who would carry on like it was a party, Bringing all manner of costumesAnd party implementsAnd music and dancing Making it very clear that we thought it was the best thing ever that he’d fucking died.  For that reason alone my guess is his cult would want to have his funeral at a place like merde-a-lardo.

  47. 47.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Jackie: if he’s dead, he wont be aware of how small the crowd size is.. or which dignitaries send their most minor surrogates..

  50. 50.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jackie: they’ll all hire designated mourners, and all those designated mourners will Outsource their job to…. One guy, who will show up with like a thousand different placards hanging off of him of different potentates and States and corporations that he’s representing as their mourner.

  52. 52.

    Bupalos

    I have so little preference for what happens to Trump if and when he’s removed from a position of wrecking this country I can’t even tell you. He can eat two scoops and golf all day long, or have his lids propped open while circus clowns alternate pouring salt on his eyes and taking a dump in his mouth. Completely indifferent, apart from the fact that scenario 2 might also be clown abuse.

    The problem with Trump is what he prevents us from doing. Just want him and his successors gone.

  56. 56.

    Chet Murthy

    @Kent: his cultists will make sure it’s in a mausoleum with high fences around it.  If it’s on a golf course no grass will ever grow near that grave.  They’ll be enough urine to guarantee that.

  59. 59.

    MinuteMan

    Funny how offensive it is when people refer to the orange guy as “President”, but it seems just fine when it’s Clinton or Obama, probably because they were fit to hold the office.

    It’s plenty offensive when used for other former Presidents but when they refer to the Mango Magat it certainly seems way worse.

  62. 62.

    MinuteMan

    @Jackie:

     Haley shouldn’t flatter herself—well she is a GQPer, after all—those voters weren’t voting for her but against Twitler. They probably would have voted for a pet rock.

  63. 63.

    MinuteMan

    @Kent: ​We can bury him on the golf course somewhere next to his ex wife.
     Hey, he’ll finally get a legitimate hole in one ;-)

  64. 64.

    MinuteMan

    @WaterGirl: It’s an office, not a title.  There is exactly one President of the United States at any given moment. Consider if the usage is offensive in reference to Mangolini that’s probably a clue that there’s something wrong with it.

  68. 68.

    Chet Murthy

    @frosty: ISTR such things from various sci-fi space opera I’d read in my wasted youth.  Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_mourning

  69. 69.

    KatKapCC

    @Chet Murthy: Hell, the dancing in the streets in the US when bin Laden was killed.

    Now, am I saying Trump is as bad as bin Laden? I’m not NOT saying that.

  70. 70.

    Chet Murthy

    @KatKapCC: He’s a fuckton worse.  There should be a contest, “Trump Funerall Flash Mob Dance-off”.  Certainly easy enough to videotape, with all the smartphones.  You could have troupes from all over the country queueing up to dance in the chamber where the corpse is displayed.  Ratings gold!

  74. 74.

    anitamargarita

    Re the mockery eating him up: it’s not a terrible thing to say or feel – he has long since forfeited any compassion.

  75. 75.

    frosty

    @Chet Murthy: Space opera is not a wasted youth. Keith Laumer was one of my favorite authors.

    And I read way more E.E. “Doc” Smith than was worth the time. OK, maybe that was wasted LOL.

  78. 78.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @mrmoshpotato: i REALLY think there is a VAST undercount of covid deaths. i think they missed a LOT of them, especially at the “known” beginning of the plague in feb/march of ’20. i think pervert hoover is responsible for the deaths of easily a million, if not more.

    @frosty:  no lensman, no green lantern. a lot of smith’s stories were brimming with good ideas. problem was, the man himself was brimming with sexism and his books might as well have been titled, captain patriarchy versus the evil boskone empire.

  79. 79.

    Chet Murthy

    @strange visitor (from another planet): Not gainsaying you, but …. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7480051/#:~:text=In%20absolute%20terms%2C%20367%2C820%20directly,42…)%20excess%20deaths.

    In absolute terms, 367,820 directly assigned Covid-19 deaths occurred in the 2,096 counties in the study between January 1 and December 31, 2020, meaning there were 74,172 (95% CI, 60,162 to 88,183) excess deaths not directly assigned to Covid-19 for a total of 441,992 (95% CI, 427,982 to 456,003) excess deaths.

  82. 82.

    thruppence

    @Chet Murthy: About the same time as I was reading the Lensman series I also discovered Samuel R. Delany’s Babel-17 in our grade school book fair. Don’t think it was intended for grade schoolers, but I thought it was great.

  84. 84.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @Chet Murthy:

    all i know is that at the beginning, hell, for years, it was endless ambulances wailing past our apartment and bodies being buried in mass graves, bodies piling up in refrigerator trucks and  dingus con’s administration doing everything it could to minimize the count of corpses. they NEVER tell the truth. his people NEVER tell the truth. i don’t trust their cdc or NIH to have given biden’s people actual numbers…

    because that would quantify his failures and hand them to his greatest enemy. we KNOW derp furor would TOTALLY take advantage of that had the circumstances been reversed, because we’ve seen him in action.

    i just don’t trust those fuckers, those bleach injecting motherfuckers for a second.

  85. 85.

    Chet Murthy

    @strange visitor (from another planet): We know that deaths that should have been attributed to COVID weren’t.  E.g. in FL.  Probably in lots of other places too.  FL also did tricks like not recording deaths for non-residents.  But all of that washes out eventually, when it comes time to list all the people who died in 2020.  And the Feds are going to get that right, b/c people who died …. stop getting social security, stop paying taxes, etc.  It matters to get that right.  And that’s where “excess deaths” come in, right?  That’s why that snippet I posted lists “excess deaths” separately from “Deaths attributed to COVID”.

    You can believe that they faked deaths (pretended that people didn’t die), I guess.  But it’s ….. unlikely.

    OK, except there is one category of residents I forgot about: undocumented immigrants.  I don’t think there’s any way to know exactly how many undocumented immigrants got COVID and died, b/c we don’t track them precisely the way we do with citizens.  Still, I have difficulty believing that a half-million undocumented immigrants died in 2020 (which is what it would take, to move 400k up to 1m deaths).

  86. 86.

    Aussie Sheila

    I had forgotten what a superb retail politician Clinton was. His speech was so excellent. Plain spoken, explanatory without being condescending, relaxed and warm.

    Folksy without being cloying and sycophantic.

    Whatever one thinks of his policies during his time in Office, I am reminded once again of how he got there. Twice.

    Thanks for the link.

    Aspiring contemporary pols in the US could learn a lot playing that on loop.

  88. 88.

    Chet Murthy

    @strange visitor (from another planet): That was for 2020, 1/1-12/31 inclusive, per the snippet I posted.  And since TCFG left office on 20 Jan, that would be the vast majority of the period for which he could have nobbled the death numbers, right?   I mean, I think we can assume that Biden’s admin honestly reported deaths, right?  Maybe states misattributed deaths, but the death totals were honestly reported, right?

    Many people have pointed out that we can’t use “COVID deaths” — that we should be using “excess deaths”: this isn’t novel or outre’.  And that’s why NIH calculates excess deaths.

  89. 89.

    Randal Sexton

    @Chet Murthy: I have always thought about visiting his grave, after consuming a LARGE amount of beer.   Maybe after hopping a fence at 3 in the morning, and then watering/fertilizing his daisies.

  92. 92.

    Aussie Sheila

    @JoyceH:

    I know this is a bit ‘previous’, but when she wins and is inaugurated, the first order of business should be the dismissal of Garland and the appointment of a partisan Rottweiler as AG, and in 2027 she should appoint a competent and fierce Democratic partisan as FBI Director.

    Enough with the Dem deference to the ‘Justice’ portfolios.

    When you win, you win.

    Make it count.

    Hard.
    Stat.

  93. 93.

    West of the Rockies

    Absolutely OT, but I came across and watched the final 30 minutes of Steel Magnolias and forgot how wretched and paper thin every male character in the movie is.  They’re all dull, weak, and overwhelmed.  Sort of the inverse of how Heilein and Larry Niven cannot write female characters.

  94. 94.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Chet Murthy: i kind of think we can blame him for the disease’s initial spread bc of his disassembly of bush and obama’s pandemic protocols as well  as their china monitoring program (so world wide numbers are ALSO on his head). i think we can CERTAINLY blame him and his fellow fascist propagandists for pushing the anti-mask brigades, the anti-vax assholes and the covid-hoax mitigating-denialists who refused to take even the slightest steps to prevent the spread, like social distancing (though you could put them in the anti-mask brigades).

    their behaviors, pronouncements and propaganda definitely got far more americans killed, and the fun part is, they didn’t care that (at that point) the majority they were putting in harm’s way were red-staters.

    i’m of the mind that they did that deliberately, to push up biden’s fatality numbers, so they could use them as a point-of-attack.

  95. 95.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila: My understanding is that the FBI Director can be fired for any reason.  Harris should fire Wray for his shenanigans during the Justice Boof fiasco.  Wray should have refused that bullshit background check, and if he took it, should have made sure that Congress knew it was merely a background check.  He did neither.  Fire his ass.

  97. 97.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @CaseyL: heard very good things. not had a chance to start a read. been looking for someone to fill the void left by iain m. banks’ passing (presumably in some outlandishly named GSV).

  99. 99.

    Chet Murthy

    @strange visitor (from another planet): I agree with most of what you wrote, but especially with the part about him not working to ensure that the American people abided by restrictions to minimize transmission.  That cost a lot of people their lives, lots more their health.  The US had much worse outcome than  other wealthy nations.

    Re: dismantling surveillance and pandemic response, I remember an epidemiologist in Baltimore (maybe JHU?) being interviewed early-on: she said that the US was very well-prepared for a pandemic, and it would be no big deal for us.  Then …. well, nearly a year later she was interviewed again, and said that her mistake had been assuming competent direction from the top.  Likewise, there was a scorecard of OECD countries’ healthcare systems and their response to a pandemic, again just before COVID, and the US came out on top.  The problem was direction from the top, which was shitty beyond belief and cost lives.

  100. 100.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Chet Murthy: yeah, i guess “we don’t have to send these people SS checks anymore” (“no one is cashing the check” wouldn’t be viable in that with electronic deposit, there’s no “cashing” anymore but still) is a good way to count, along with tax reciepts. guess they were certainly right about death and taxes after all

    eta- that fiasco where he ordered americans abroad back to the states and there was that horrible rush at the airports- no distancing, no masking, no NOTHING, just hordes of panicked people breathing, screaming, shouting and spitting all over each other?

    yeah. holy fuck did he help propagate the virus.

  101. 101.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Yes the FBI Director can be fired for any reason, but as I understand it, they are appointed for ten year terms since Watergate (?).

    Might be a good idea not to fire him as such until his term is up, but invite for a close conversation once inaugurated. He might like to offer up his resignation after the conversation.

  102. 102.

    Chet Murthy

    @strange visitor (from another planet): I once worked on an “entity resolution” system (used to take a bunch of different kinds of records, and figure out which records are from the same real human person: the sort of system used to find people who operate under aliases and don’t want to be found).  One of the standard datasets that we used was the “social security death master” — the file of all people who had ever had an SSN, and had died.  The SSA takes that shit very seriously.

  103. 103.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    The US and UK Covid death totals were far worse than any comparably affluent polities.

    Public health outcomes are always, always the result of political  choices.

  105. 105.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @strange visitor (from another planet):

    Look, you people clearly need to read A Spaceship Repair Girl Supposedly Named Rachel.  Where else are you going to get Martian cyborgs, Saturnian air pirates, Venusian Space Bunnies, Comet Cletus, and one suspiciously intelligent kobold child all in one book?  All your space opera needs in one place!

  108. 108.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Chet Murthy: And while those two persons are sharing a topic, and while we’re on the topic of interment, I’d be in favor of doing to TFG’s remains what they did to OBL’s remains, except with less dignity. Chucking them off the fantail of a frigate into the middle of the Bermuda Triangle sounds about right to me.

    Ideally after he’s died in prison.

  109. 109.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    The exact details of his post demise arrangements is less important to me than the fact that he must face trial for his crimes against the polity and he must suffer the penalty that anyone else would.

    Anything less is a travesty against the people and will endanger democracy going forward. If the US State can’t enforce the law against those who have conspired to overthrow it by force, it is lost and as a consequence the people are defenceless.

  110. 110.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Aussie Sheila: You’re not wrong on any of those points. I was just radiating a weak brain wave that formed in my head in the absence of morning caffeine.

    Sometimes it can be healthy to pause our brooding about catastrophically consequential matters to amuse ourselves with frivolities for a brief spell.

  111. 111.

    WaterGirl

    Finally!

    @MuellerSheWrote
    2h

    I love that Judge Chutkan said that delaying the release of the Jack Smith evidence would be election interference just a much as postponing it.

  112. 112.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Of course!

    I didn’t mean to be stern with you. It’s just that I am flummoxed at the inability of the US justice system and the State it is supposed to protect to bring this demented criminal to justice.

    It’s beyond ineffable at this point. In any other polity this arsehole would be banged up to rights.
    Except I can’t imagine such a thing happening anywhere else in a contemporary democratic polity.

    It’s beyond thunderdome.

  113. 113.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila: You’re most definitely not alone in being flummoxed (though I’d describe my own reaction somewhat more ….. unprintably) by the inability of our “institutions” to hold him accountable.  I mean, we saw him try to run a coup on live TV FFS!  He should have been in custody on 21 January, on a plane to GITMO that afternoon, along with all his henchmen.  And watching all these Merrick Garland apologists make up stories for why everything is fine, things are going the way they should, is just infuriating.  There’s no way Jose Padilla was treated like this!  He was thrown in solitary in a military brig!  And all these lily-livered assholes who say “oh, but what about due process?!?!?!”  When this bastard has a history of abusing the legal system, and besides, sure, he’ll get due process, IN GITMO.  And he won’t be allowed to wander about, fomenting MORE COUPS in the meantime.

    And yeah, a state that doesn’t know how to protect itself from coup attempts, isn’t going to survive.  It really, really pisses me off.

    Jesus, it’s so goddamn enraging.

  116. 116.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Jackie: laughing so hard, and then crying, because of the way she holds up the unity and peace as a real thing we can live. Fervently to be desired.

  117. 117.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    I blame the post Civil War lenience meted out to the traitors and insurrectionists of that time. If a few of the ringleaders, civil and military had swung from the yardarm, this current embarrassment to democracy might not have happened.

    I’m against the death penalty in ordinary circumstances for crimes against the person and property.

    But great crimes against the people such as the declaration of war against the Union and trump’s  crimes against democratic will  of the people require condign punishment in my opinion.

  118. 118.

    divF

    @Chet Murthy: This brings back fond memories of the night Nixon resigned. My date and I were  at a play in Zellerbach Playhouse on the south side of the UC Berkeley campus. When we stepped out of the play, we found ourselves in the middle of a wild street party – the city had to close off Telegraph and Bancroft Avenues.
    I imagine such a party in DC celebrating Trump’s demise, except extending the entire length of Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House to Capitol Hill.

  119. 119.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila: The Civil War was 150+ years ago: I don’t think that that’s what set the table for this fecklessness.  I think it was Nixon’s pardon, and the sweeping of Iran-Contra under the rug.  G(r)OPers have been getting away with high crimes for generations now.

    Notwithstanding, -at that moment- the whole country knew he’d committed the unforgivable: sedition against our Republic.  Biden could have had him arrested and sent to GITMO, shut him the fuck up, and the country would have agreed  and we could have moved forward.  Instead we let him keep blathering, and let him convince half the country that he was innocent!  What kind of bullshit was that?

  121. 121.

    Chet Murthy

    @divF: In one of the histories of the Punic Wars, a historian (Polybius?) wrote that the key traits of a successful general were the same as those of someone who could pull off a citywide fete (“professionals talk logistics”).  When TCFG dies, our major cities need to put on massive parties, along with everything that entails.  Massive, massive parties.

    We need to make sure that his cultists know just how much we fucking we hate his guts, and hence hate them.

  122. 122.

    Chet Murthy

    @Chet Murthy: something else: we know that he learned the tactic of “try the case in the media” from his mentor Roy Cohn.  I don’t understand why his judges haven’t put a complete gag order on him until his trials are complete.  Sure, it infringes on his 1A rights: so the fuck what?  No right is unilateral.  Just shut him up, and if he won’t stay shut up, haul him into jail.  Again, we’re just feckless as a nation, letting him get away with this shit.

  123. 123.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    I disagree. The post civil war lenience set the table for the forgiveness of the high crimes of the elite for generations.

    No other country would have ever extended such lenience. The Southern elites’ unwillingness to accept the democratic will of the people and their determination to resist that will by force of arms set the terms. The fact that no condign punishment was meted out has given US elites a ‘get out of jail free’ card ever since.

    That was the original mistake when it comes to holding elites accountable in the US imo.

    The result has been an escalating sense of impunity by said elites ever since. It is either nipped in the bud now, or it never will be.

  125. 125.

    Betty Cracker

    @Aussie Sheila: & @Chet Murthy: I am among the ranks of the flummoxed too. If Harris wins (and I think she will), we’ll get a rare second chance to address the institutional failure to hold the coup plotters accountable in a timely manner. We damn well better make the most of it.

  128. 128.

    Chet Murthy

    @frosty: that went right over my head.  But I read that stuff in the late ’70s, so it’s not like I remember much of it.

  129. 129.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Once again, no.
    This entirely wrong imo.

    The people might hold parties. That’s beside the point. The State, representing the people must ensure he is tried and held accountable suffering the most sever penalty available under law for the crime.

    Nothing less will  restore proper respect for democratic norms.

  131. 131.

    cain

    @Jackie: lol – and they aren’t going to be a fan of Haley herself. Pissing off your own supporters who you’ve convinced to go against Trump.

    Maybe, she’ll do it and then embarrass herself like Kristi Noem did while she had to stand there next to a swaying Trump through 30 minutes of music. I bet she was pissed after that because she looked like a total fool.

  132. 132.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila: Sorry, my “party” comment was in response to the discussion of how to properly celebrate TCFG’s death, not about his trial.  For sure I agree that we need to prosecute his ass and send him to -prison-, not some country club, but hard time until he dies in prison for his crimes.  No doubt, no doubt.

    And when he dies, we’ll have massive parties.

  137. 137.

    Chet Murthy

    @frosty: Ha.  no memory of that.  I read a ton of Doc Savage books, but the only things I remember are:

    (1) he had a motley crew of sidekicks

    (2) in one story, they revived a Neanderthal, whose name was “Pey Dey Eh Ghan” (“payday again”, get it?)

    That’s all I remember anymore.

  138. 138.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Apologies for the misinterpretation. However I’m obsessed with the lack of urgency exhibited by Garland once he was installed, in dealing with the worst crime against the US since the Civil War. External enemies are much easier to deal with.

    It seems the US State simply can’t deal with its own elites. Which is a pity. Because US elites are more powerful than any elites anywhere outside third world shit holes like Russia.

  140. 140.

    Repatriated.

    @frosty: For some unfathomable reason, Doc thought everyone in the future would say QX instead of OK.

    Maybe it was an amateur radio kind of thing (like “CQ”) because radio was the then-current high tech thing.

  141. 141.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: I saw exit polling from the Republican primaries that showed half of Haley voters said they wojld not vote for Trump in November. Assuming that was accurate, Haley’s efforts are not going to change that because a lot of her voters did not vote for her so much as against Trump.

    So I don’t think Haley can help Trump, and I doubt if she can help her own future prospects either if that is her motivation. If supporting Trump this year is a prerequisite for winning the 2028 nomination– and I think it will be– Haley will get still squeezed out of the “pragmatic conservative” lane by politicians like Kemp and Youngkin who are successful males.

    And the more feral Republicans hate Haley as a “RINO” and always will. If Haley took the stage at a Trump rally she’d be booed. That shouldn’t be a problem with a town hall format, but there might be another problem: Donald Trump doesn’t like Nikki Haley either. If this event comes off that could be an interesting dynamic!

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    @Aussie Sheila: Abraham Lincoln thought otherwise, and the surrender terms Grant offered at Appomattox reflected Lincoln thinking. The two men conferred for several days right before Petersburg and Richmond fell, and the promise that the paroled Confederates soldiers would not be molested “so long as they observed the laws in place” expressed Lincoln’s lawyerly thinking. This was in effect an amnesty, and Lincoln knew it.

    Personally, I think Lincoln had it right. The problem was that Reconstruction was sabotaged by Lincoln’s successor. Overall, Lincoln conducted the war admirably, but he still made mistakes and choosing Andrew Johnson as his running mate in 1864 was his biggest and most irreparable mistake.

    At the time, Johnson was one of the most warlike of the “War Democrats” and when the war ended he initially expressed a vindictive attitude towards the Confederates. While Lincoln had said in his second Inaugural Adress that he would act “with malice towards none and charity towards all,” a few wweks later Johnson ominously intoned that “Treason must be made odious.” Johnson’s proposal to put Confederate generals on trial was forestalled by Grant who insisted that the terms given at Appomattox and consequent surrenders be fulfilled.

    But “Andy” Johnson lacked moral character, and his political ambitions soon led him to betray Lincoln’s trust by undermining Reconstruction.

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Andrew Johnson was drunk at Lincoln’s March, 1864 Inauguration. When one of Lincoln’s friends remarked upon this, Lincoln downplayed the concerns. But Lincoln had a strong physical constitution and did not think he might be the first American President to die by assassination.

  146. 146.

    Central Planning

    @waspuppet:

    As you can tell because they call him “President Trump” and mostly call Biden “Biden.”

    That’s because Biden never won a presidential election. Checkmate! /s

  148. 148.

    Kosh III

    It should always be EX-President or FORMER-President.

    Or my favorite: President Pussy-Grabber.

  150. 150.

    Gloria DryGarden

    It’s a great speech from Bill Clinton – the video is the entire speech.

    Funny how offensive it is when people refer to the orange guy as “President”, but it seems just fine when it’s Clinton or Obama, probably because they were fit to hold the office.

    Im not even sure what is the proper form of address, or title, when mentioning these persons. But indeed, it bothers me so much when people call him president trvmp to his face. Maybe because he carries on as if he were, bossing  congress, pretending his big lie is true. Sticks in my craw.

  151. 151.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @West of the Rockies: it’s just balance. The main characters were women, and the ladies friend group.  I need such a movie, because the movies with mostly only men and stereotyped women, was the norm for so long. Takes an equal number of movies, to balance that.

    as a female, I feel represented. An important chunk of our lives do end up being about our friend groups, our children, so it’s just fine to make that the central focus.

  152. 152.

    piratedan

    I think when DJT goes, he can be buried in an unmarked grave outside the prison just like the other inmates.

  153. 153.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @frosty: Few years back I stumbled across my paperback copy of First Lensman and just for the halibut put in in the bedtime queue. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a pretty dang good read! Whoa, I thought, have I misjudged EES all these years? So I dug out the other 5 volumes and cracked one – then another – then another – and a few pages in each was as miserable a howler as I’d remembered. Turns out First Lensman was the last volume in the series to see the blight of day (early 1950s IIRC) and apparently Smith (or his ghostwriter, hoo nose?) had learned something about novel writing in the interim. Might’ve been interesting had someone taken a shot at reworking the others…

  155. 155.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @thruppence: Chip Delaney can flat out fucking write and everyone who isn’t too much of a literary snob to crack anything in his oeuvre has known that for >50 years. I started with Nova (the book not the car though I started with one of those too). One of his best short works (Nebula 1969/Hugo 1970) has one of the best titles I’ve ever encountered: “Time Considered As A Helix Of Semi-Precious Stones.”

  156. 156.

    Ironcity

    @Chet Murthy: They may take it seriously but they do mess up very occasionally.

    I had to get a new SSAN because the one they assigned me was already in use by someone else.  SSA didn’t find it until the original owner died and my employer was still making FICA payments, 0nly took 10 or 15 years.

  157. 157.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @frosty: ​For some unfathomable reason, Doc thought everyone in the future would say QX instead of OK.

    I wsas confused at first til I gave it some thought. If you go back to Triplanetary (once independent of the Lensman series but backdated into it by adding chapters at the beginning to bring the history of Mankind up to date) you find the last prequel chapter takes place during a global nuclear war. It’s not hard to posit that it took so long for civilisation to revive that when people looked at the ruins they saw “OK” and with a few cracks in the papers and concrete (which is most of what would still be around in a 1930s future) it might’ve been read as “QX.” After all, no one really knows how OK got to be, umm, OK. And it’s just as short (2 syllables). Maybe I’m giving “Doc” &Cie too much credit for subtlety, but I thought it was an interesting possibility. YMMV

  158. 158.

    Chris T.

    @Chet Murthy: Hey, Doc Savage actually has something to it! Lester Dent was a pretty good writer. (Some of the others under the House Name were not so good.)

    Perry Rhodan, ok, I’ll give you that one. 😀

  159. 159.

    Chris T.

    @divF:

    This brings back fond memories of the night Nixon resigned. My date and I were at a play in Zellerbach Playhouse on the south side of the UC Berkeley campus. When we stepped out of the play, we found ourselves in the middle of a wild street party – the city had to close off Telegraph and Bancroft Avenues.

    Zellerbach is a couple of blocks north of there (off Sproul Plaza), but I think they moved the entrance a while back. I vaguely recall going in from the east side for a Clannad concert, and then going in from the north side for Bruce Hornsby.

    Still, I can easily imagine a “Nixon Resigns” party overflowing well into Sproul, even past Sather Gate.

  160. 160.

    Chris T.

    @Chet Murthy:

    I read a ton of Doc Savage books, but the only things I remember are:
    (1) he had a motley crew of sidekicks

    (2) in one story, they revived a Neanderthal, whose name was “Pey Dey Eh Ghan” (“payday again”, get it?)

    That’s all I remember anymore.

    (1) yes, but (2) no (probably some unrelated pulp, though I don’t recall that from Rhodan, unlike the Swoons who never were swooped per the blurb on the back…).

    The sidekicks are Brigadier General Theodore Marley “Ham” Brooks (Harvard Law), Lt Colonel Andrew Blodgett “Monk” Mayfair (chemist, no further details), Colonel John “Renny” Renwick (civil engineer), William Harper “Johnny” Littlejohn (archaeologist), and  MajorThomas J “Long Tom” Roberts (electrical engineer). (We don’t know Johnny’s rank, although Farmer’s biography says they all met during WW1 when Doc broke them all out of a German encampment in, I think, France. Doc had lied about his age, at 16 or so, in order to enlist; he was the youngest of the six.)

    Monk and Ham appear in most stories, while the others are rarer. Johnny Littlejohn probably appears rarely because his dialogue required extensive use of a thesaurus (to find appropriate polysyllabic neologisms). Long Tom also appears rarely, for no particularly clear reason.

    (Note: I possess a copy of every single story, including the ones finished after Dent’s death, such as White Eyes. I forget who finished these up.)

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