Badger and I both feel like crap. I know why I’m uncomfortable; I had my second shingles shot this morning, so my arm hurts, and I can’t sleep.
I’m not sure what’s up with Badger. Maybe he ate a bad lizard or something. Anyhoo, we’re companionably miserable, which is better than enduring our distress alone.
We’ll be okay. We both hate getting shots, but he’s far more stoic about it. I’m a big crybaby.
Years ago, I read about a new injection technology that was supposedly on the horizon whereby shots could be delivered painlessly via a Velcro strip-like device with multiple tiny needles.
If President Kamala Harris puts me in charge of public health policy — which despite my being an English major with no science qualifications makes more sense than Trump’s threat to appoint crackpot RFK Jr. to head up H&HS — I would invest in painless vaccine delivery and require Big Pharma to offer gummy versions of all pills.
Open thread!
War for Ukraine Day 978: Russia Strikes at a Kharkiv Landmark & UNESCO Heritage Site
HumboldtBlue
Love ya, Betty.
eclare
Oh no! Poor Badger.
eclare
@HumboldtBlue:
How is Noodles?
Yutsano
I hope this is just temporary and you both feel better, but give Badger all the extra cuddles for me.
In other news, racist piece of shit is a racist piece of shit. I hope Girdusky regrets his audition for the wingnut Wurlitzer.
Juju
I don’t fear the needle, I hate the side effects of the vaccinations. I don’t think I’ve ever had a vaccination that didn’t make me feel like crap. One of my least favorite is the tetanus shot. That was my least favorite until covid vaccines, although flu vaccines are crappy too. I should probably get the shingles series, but I dread the after effects.
I hope you feel better soon and I’m glad you have your buddy with you. I don’t know what I’d do without mine.
Sleep well.
hitchhiker
hiya
turning midnight here on Whidbey Island, about to take my pup out for his evening breath of PNW air.
listening to an 8 hr podcast about the making of The Godfather movies to distract myself from thinking about how many days are left.
I will never get over having to watch while adults with power lie their faces off day after day. never.
Nelle
I’m on the awake bench, well, sofa, beside you. Of all the silly things, I was awakened by a throbbing thumb. Base of the thumb. Can’t remember what I might have done, but memory is slipping. So is the body. I did spend the day wrangling a fractious three grandchildren (they are rarely in school five days a week so childcare gets to be a scramble for working parents).
It is October 29 and I have windows open at night. Very warm. Hard freeze was last Saturday. Between the up and down weather and the exhausting, never-ending election, I’m betwixt, bewildered, and between. Sleep might help. Can’t remember where I stuck my ability to sleep.
Gretchen
I would trust you much more than RFK as head of HHS. My public health daughter was horrified when I told her that was a consideration. She actually knows a previous, competent former head. Remember when competence was a minimum?
Gretchen
@Nelle: Yes! School doesn’t seem to happen five days a week any more! And my daughter’s two boys are in different schools, so the random days off don’t align. I don’t know how parents without local grandparents manage.
Daughter once complained that I don’t help her enough. Girl, I early retired to pick your kid up from preschool when you needed it. Oh, yes, forgot about that.
NotMax
Awakened from a most welcome nap to discover had pulled something in the back smack in the middle of the left shoulder blade. Not a happy camper, I.
Only hurts when I laugh. Or cough. Or sneeze. Or move.
This too shall pass.
Dangerman
I would trust Badger or that bad lizard more than RFK as head of HHS.
Betty Cracker
@Juju: I avoid shots when I can, but my husband got shingles once, and it was so awful it convinced me to get the vaccine. As added motivation, clinical studies suggest the shingles vaccine significantly reduces your risk of developing dementia.
opiejeanne
@Betty Cracker: The shingles vaccine does that? Welcome information. i need to get the current one; the one I had several years ago is now deemed inadequate.
I’m a bit nervous because on Thursday I’m having blepharoplasty* on both eyes, and having anesthetic shots in my eyelids while I’m awake does not appeal to me. They are having me take a sedative pill when I get there and they say I really won’t feel much, just a little scratch. I’ve been promised that I’ll probably fall asleep during the procedure. God, I hope so.
*Fancy term for removing some of the sagging eyelids (ptosis), so I can see better. It’s interfering with my ability to drive, enough that I won’t drive farther than a mile from home.
eclare
Never had chicken pox, so no reason to get the shingles vaccine. Sounds awful.
eclare
@opiejeanne:
Oh gosh! That would give me nightmares. Good luck!
TS
I don’t need the gummy versions but if I get the job I will ban any pills long than 1/5″ – those horse pills that are anti-virals near choked me to death – might as well have let the virus do its worst.
Ksmiami
Better to feel badly one night than endure 10 days of shingles…
my mom had it and said it was like being on fire from inside…
Geminid
@TS: There’s trick for taking large pills; that is, washing them down with something thick like apricot nectar or buttermilk. You may know this already but I mention it because not everyone does.
Chet Murthy
@TS: I take a B-complex pill daily — that sucker is 3/4″ long! Oof!
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: i don’t have apricot butter, does that ever sound delicious. My grandma used to make green gage plum preserves (among a zillion other things she canned from my grandpas garden) over in Annandale, VA.
My dad and my uncles always thought it was something special.
when I get to the part where it’s hard to swallow pills, I’ll remember this applesauce trick.
Chet Murthy
@Ksmiami: I’ve read of people committing suicide from the pain, of people getting their sensory nerves to the affected segment of their skin cut to stop the pain. When we came out of the pandemic, the first vaccine I got after my COVID shots was Shingrix.
Maxim
@eclare: You can get shingles without having chicken pox. It’s transmissible.
Gloria DryGarden
@Betty Cracker: oh, hey, that makes me feel very keen to get it. The vaccine. Because it would be great to skip dementia.
Chet Murthy
@Gloria DryGarden: I think Geminid meant apricot -nectar- : that is to say, something sort of like apricot juice? I haven’t looked for it in stores, but AMZN (haha) seems to sell a bunch of kinds. It seems like the sort of thing I’d see at my local middle-eastern grocery (though I’m not sure why that came to mind — maybe I’ve seen it there?)
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Good to know — thanks! I went from taking no pills to about a dozen a day, and I hate it, especially the horse pills. Will try to wash them down with a thicker liquid.
Chet Murthy
@Maxim: reading around a little, it appears one can also have an asymptomatic chickenpox infection with about 10% probability.
Gloria DryGarden
@Chet Murthy: oh yes, wonderful juice, my dad used to get it. It was special.
Gretchen
@Chet Murthy: I have to chew that one up. Too big for me to swallow.
Honus
@Maxim: and you definitely don’t want shingles. The discomfort from the vaccine is bad, but nothing compared to shingles. And at least in my case, it only lasted a day.
Gloria DryGarden
@Maxim: my mom was afraid to get shingles off my chicken pox infection. Is that a thing?
So I was sent home from college, but no one helped me. I kept passing out on the way to the kitchen to get my own water.
I recommend having your chicken pox young; the older you are, the sicker it can make you. My little sister had it at the same time, and even just three years younger, she was way less sick for a shorter time.
Gretchen
I read about an antivax grandma who babysat her grand baby and wrapped her in a blanket used by a kid with chickenpox. Mom thought it was odd that she was using this raggedy blanket. Put it together when the kid got chickenpox, when they were scheduled to get the vaccine in a few weeks. Imagine making sure your grandchild gets the opportunity to get shingles when it could have been prevented by protecting them until they got the vaccine.Grandma thought she was strengthening the immune system, because she’s an idiot.
My daughter took her 4 month old baby to visit in-laws. In-laws informed them as they pulled into the driveway after a 12 hour drive that they had covid. Should have turned around right then, but were talked into outdoor meetings. MIL approached the 2yo, mask hanging off her ear. Daughter said please keep your distance. MIL went into a snit and ran into the house. SIL followed her to try to comfort her. He got covid, rest of the family got covid. 4 month old got covid. MIL feels she’s the injured party because she was blamed for giving the unvaccinated baby covid. I think she’s earned no more visits, but SIL won’t be able to do that.
TS
@Geminid: I rarely have such items in the pantry – but thanks for mentioning. I shall try the nectar, don’t think I could cope with buttermilk – I never drink any milk products.
I’ve had a “strange” throat all my life & with age it just gets stranger. The horse pills were almost the end.
JoyceH
@opiejeanne: You interest me greatly because I’ve been having eyelid issues as well. I’ve been trying a cream that’s supposed to tighten up the skin but not seeing any results. What sort of doctor do you see for this?
Chet Murthy
@TS: i’ve never tried one of these, but perhaps you want to get a pill crusher? I remember seeing one in the drugstore once when I was waiting in line to pick up prescriptions.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gretchen: speaking of competence, might president Biden make an executive order that folks in the White House, both elected and appointed officials , must pass a security clearance before that can access national classified info?
maybe before they can be sworn in. ..
something like that.
we just are going to have to win.
im going to watch figure skating until I can fall asleep.
Gloria DryGarden
They sent me home with a pill splitter once, so I could take half doses of the pain pills as I recovered from a surgery.
i need to get my next Covid booster, but I have to schedule to be in bed for a day, that’s how it usually goes.
Chet Murthy
@Gloria DryGarden: apparently at the end of the day the president vice president and elected house and Senate members are exempt from these rules by virtue of there being elected. And the president can exempt anybody else he wants, Since in a sense he embodies all the rules. Which is why he was able to Get Jared Classified access Even though he manifestly failed His Security review.
Gretchen
@Gloria DryGarden: It’s pretty shocking that Trump is saying that he wants to install less competent people. What is the constituency for that?
I’ve just finished the second season of Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix and am about to start the third. Mysteries that have answers wrapped up by the last episode are very appealing at this time.
Season 2 had an interesting twist in the last 20 minutes that I didn’t see coming.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Gloria DryGarden: The problem with an executive order is that it can be vacated by another executive order at any time, which will most likely happen if Trump gets back into office. Now, if it is a law, passed by Congress and signed by the President, that’s another matter. Of course, a Republican House of Representatives in thrall to the Trumpists wouldn’t be likely to pass such a law…
Suburban Mom
@Gloria DryGarden: So true. I was in my mid 30’s when I had chicken pox. It was the most miserably sick I’ve been in my adult life.
montanareddog
@Gloria DryGarden:
I got it in my 40s – the perils of being an older parent. Hoo boy, was I sick.
montanareddog
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
Thanks to SCOTUS, Trump could ignore such a law anyway, with no consequences, as overriding it would clearly be an official act
David_C
@Betty Cracker: Good morning! Immunology PhD guy here*. Good for you for getting the shot. It’s a pain, but better than shingles, which I got before two months before I was eligible for the older vaccine. We funded someone (former head of RadOnc at UPitt – Joel Greenberger, who’s a good guy) who was working on the micro needle patch for drug delivery. The thing is, it’s re@Loy not the needle that causes the pain (beyond the first few minutes or so) but the immune response.
@eclare: Yes, you should get a shingles vaccine. There is a possibility of an asymptomatic infection or a later infection by the virus that causes chicken pox and shingles.
cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/shingles-recombinant.html#why-vaccinate
*Spent 10 years failing to develop vaccines for HIV and Lyme disease. Now I’m more into radiation biology, but at the funding part.
Chet Murthy
@Gretchen: “It’s pretty shocking that Trump is saying that he wants to install less competent people. What is the constituency for that?”
I didn’t read the report as saying that, but rather, that he wants to install people who cannot pass the security review. That is, they’re either crooked, have red-flag foreign connections, chancy business history, debts, etc. More than likely, mostly b/c they’re corrupt assholes who would use their offices for personal profit and not for the good of the nation.
Betty Cracker
@Gretchen: Woof, it’s too bad your daughter has such a whiny, selfish MIL. I’d have been furious in that situation.
Ramalama
As a kid I needed to go to the ER or doctor’s office to get shots of adrenaline for asthma attacks. Most times the shots were administered by doctors who really should get more practice doing stuff like that. In America. Always painful, and perhaps my skin was extra sensitive when needing more oxygen. But it was always a terrible event.
Flash forward to being an adult getting Covid shots in Canada. I told them all how squeamish I am with needles but each and every time, no problem. Side effects for one vaccine shot pretty bad but the delivery was fine. I finally stopped saying, “Hey you’re good at this,” since they look at me like I’m stupid. I wonder if there’s different training or something. Different times. Different country.
Black_Onion
Is anyone else having a hard time sleeping from the election anxiety? My mind just won’t shut off sometimes, even when I try doing mindless, distracting things. It feels kind of like the constant background dread after the 2016 election. It can’t just be me.
Thanks for the reminder to get my booster. I had my round of shingles shots already, and boy did my arm hurt. Worth not getting shingles, though.
Gretchen
@Betty Cracker: Yes. Her whole response to the baby getting sick was “BUt what about MEEEEEEEE?”
Chet Murthy
@Ramalama: The first time I got a COVID shot, it was over before I even noticed it. I think they use shorter/thinner needles, b/c the amount of fluid is so tiny. So that might have been why you had no reaction to the shot itself.
@Black_Onion: Ohhhhhh yeah. I stay up late every night, unable to sleep. Hopefully in 8 days, I’ll start sleeping better. Hopefully.
Ksmiami
@Black_Onion: the fact that a literal fascist could be president again after his failed 4 years, his lies, his hatred etc is just utterly sickening, stupid and suicidal for the country. I try to be hopeful but …
Chet Murthy
@Gretchen: I read your story with rising horror. Still not over COVID and all the things we did to keep our families alive and healthy. The idea that somebody would just wantonly disregard the safety of their family …. grrr.
Gretchen
@Gretchen: MIL is demanding an apology for being harsh with MIL giving her baby covid. Daughter is not going there. OMG. You don’t get an apology for sickening your grandchild.
Black_Onion
@Ksmiami: I’m trying to think it’s going to be okay, but the whiplash from 2016 won’t go away. It’s tough when the feeling that nothing seems to matter for TFG. Like Van said, Trump can be lawless, Harris needs to be flawless. It’s infuriating.
Gretchen
@Chet Murthy: Yes, you’re probably right that the real reason for this is to get the crooked people through. Ugh.
Black_Onion
@Chet Murthy: Fingers crossed. I keep reading things saying that Harris is connecting with voters and the polling is suspect, etc. I still get stuck doom scrolling though.
Chet Murthy
@Black_Onion: if I believed she did not have a good chance of winning, i would be far more frantic. As it is, I’m just really troubled and waiting eight more days.
Black_Onion
@Gretchen: I’m second degree mad at MIL for everyone.
Gretchen
@Chet Murthy: thank you. I really appreciate that. I sometime feel like I’m out of step with reality. But we have this 4 month old baby, too young to be vaccinated against covid, and we’re just saying it’s no big deal if he’s infected with things he isn’t able to fight against? We could protect him, but we can’t be bothered? This sweet baby isn’t worth protecting?
Betty Cracker
@Gretchen: Ugh! Fortunate that the in-laws are a 12-hour drive away in that case!
I hit the jackpot with my MIL, who is one of the sweetest people on the planet. My friends’ stories about their terrible in-laws always remind me of how lucky I am.
Gretchen
@Betty Cracker: she really is awful. She decided to descend on her when she was 8 months pregnant to attend a shower. Who wouldn’t want unexpected houseguests when 8 months pregnant?
Chet Murthy
@Gretchen: There was a time when newborns and infants were kept at home, and nobody was allowed to see them, just because of this sort of danger of infection. Sure, it was mostly before our time, but we can read about it in the history books. And there’s another thing too: what right do grandparents have to dictate to the parents of a child, the level of health precautions that the parents will take? If that child were developmentally disabled, and the parents were taking extra measures to help the child learn, would the grandparents feel free to mess with that too?
It’s incredibly self-centered for non-parents to think that their own privileges matter more than the child’s health and safety.
Chet Murthy
@Gretchen: Imagine a relative visits a family with a newborn. The relative picks up the newborn and starts “flying the kid thru the air”. The parents object, b/c it’s a little dangerous. Should th.e relative take umbrage? I mean, it’s up to the parents to decide, and for the relative to comply.
Chet Murthy
@Gretchen: I have to wonder where SIL is in all this. I mean, it’s his mother, and he should be the one insisting that she respects his&his wife’s wishes in this.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gretchen: oh my gosh!!!
Gloria DryGarden
@Black_Onion: it’s the new version of
they go low we go high.
Gloria DryGarden
@TS: you can get applesauce in little individual tubs, if that helps. Sometimes I use it so little I hate to open a whole big jar.
Betsy
@Juju: I know it’s somewhat known for being a bit of a whammy, but there is a newer one (Shingrix) that isn’t as “whammy” as the one they used just a few years ago. And it’s more effective.
I decided to get the shingles vax after my friend had shingles so bad, she almost lost her eyesight.
She was also pretty much disabled for more than a year after her “recovery.” I mean she was a shadow of herself. It was truly scary, bracing. And she begged all her friends to get the shingles vax.
I was nervous about it but the “malaise” afterward proved only a little more noticeable than that of a flu shot.
Betsy
@Gloria DryGarden: Did she, by any chance, have a damson plum tree and make damson preserves?
I’d always heard about these being a thing regionally; then I happened one a damson tree in a side yard by an alley on one of my walks, asked the owner if I could have some, made the preserves and they were very good. I wish I had a damson tree.
p.a.
2012 shingles, right side of face. No pain. Had to see an eye doc, IIRC 3 times in 3 weeks to be sure it didn’t hit an ocular vein. It cleared up… THEN the pain started. Headaches. Not debilitating but pretty much constant. After abt a week I went to pcp. I forget the name of the antidepression med, but 10mg/day did the trick. It was a known treatment, so I’m guessing not an unusual occurrence. I don’t know how long it took to work, I stayed on for one year: it was cheap, generic, on my plan. The 10mg didn’t affect me in any antidepression-med way, I was still my miserable self.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: i expect you’re right. I resent paying congress w my tax dollars, for them to sit around and get nothing done. .and then obey a non presidents demand to not pass a bill.
that man surpasses all understanding.
when I adjust for time zones, I figure wester Europe is 6 hours from eastern time, or at least netherlands is. I used to have zooms w someone there. But Greece? What time is it there? Is this lunch time?
Gloria DryGarden
@Betsy: i think maybe so. this is 55 years ago…
let’s ask geminid about the plums of Virginia.
my grandma didn’t teach me about their trees, nor did my grandpa, who thought girls didn’t need an education. And now I’m getting bullet points, I don’t know how that happened. So special.
she had canned goods lining the stairs to the basement, and shelves down there full of stuff. She was not the sweet nurturing teach you her wisdom kind of grandma. Unfortunately. I longed for it. There were severál kinds of plum preserves.
a friend in Denver had a plum that you dry for prunes. They were good eating.. Some plum trees grow so many suckers…
Chet Murthy
There’s a book by Edward Watt, Mortal Republic about a similar situation that occurred in the waning years of the Roman Republic. The normal avenues of negotiation broke down, and eventually government ground to a halt. This led to the Social Wars, and eventually to the civil war that ended with the rise of Augustus as Emperor. He draws a lot of parallels between that time, and our own.
TBone
I saw Ken Burns on with Nicole Wallace last night and was so impressed that I’ve been trying to find a clip ever since. I couldn’t find a clip but the entire episode is finally up. His appearance starts at around “32” (I don’t know how to fiddle around and get it to start there either). But I do know that what he said should be shared (fast forward to 32):
m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtrTdlUABdc
Gloria DryGarden
@Chet Murthy: I suck at Roman history, and the history of kings, government and wars. I just recall learning they got weakened, messed up,their resources, and got overrun by some northern Germanic tribes.
so, cool, we can get overrun by some other country that wants take us over. Not my favorite idea to look forward to.
it’s a marvel on adams page to read about the military equipment and strategies , how knowledgeable you all are. I’ve been working w 4 year olds, and. Y specialty, my job, is to keep them from fighting over toys and hitting each other, and help them learn to share ((otherwise, baby, this fire truck is going inthe closet, etc.)
it’s a different world.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Gloria DryGarden: Greece is Eastern European Time, 2 hours ahead of London and 1 hour ahead of Paris. Normally it’s 7 hours ahead of New York, but this week it’s only 6 because daylight savings ended last Sunday in Europe and it doesn’t end for the US until this weekend.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: thank you. Is noon when one eats lunch in Greece? How’s the weather?
Gloria DryGarden
@Chet Murthy: is it a pretty readable book with engaging story telling, or is it dense factual dry history?the parallels sound interesting.
Gloria DryGarden
Joe Biden made a grand big apology to indigenous people for the residential schools and assimilation programs. Was it discussed in a thread?
Rachel Bakes
Add tasteless antibiotics for children that don’t have the consistency of chalk paint. I want medications to be like Iocane powder from Princes Bride: tasteless, colorless, odorless, dissolves instantly in liquid.
lowtechcyclist
@Gloria DryGarden:
IIRC, it was mentioned in an OP (an AL morning thread, I think) but lately things have been so ‘everything, everywhere, all at once’ that it didn’t get much of a share of the discussion.
Geminid
@Black_Onion: Getting a good amount sleep is really important, because not getting it can contribute to depression. I try to get 7 good hours as much as possible.
I’ve been averaging about five hours a night lately. I could sleep more; the problem now is that I don’t want to sleep. Between the election and what’s been happening in the Middle East, I stay on edge and glued to my smart phone.
So now I try to set the phone aside around 9:30, eat some chocolate and read some Civil War history. I usually conk out after 20 minutes or so. Then I wake up at 3am again.
TBone
@David_C: I had the first dose Lymerix vaccine injection but, when I went to get the required second dose, Lymerix had been pulled off the market for “poor sales.” During that year, all hell broke loose and I began my journey through decades of of debilitating symptoms. I may have already had Lyme when I received that first dose. Do you believe that Lymerix was discontinued because of “poor sales”? Is it possible that the vaccine had unintended consequences? The adverse reaction reporting is so confusing. I was misdiagnosed many times, and also accused of being a malingerer for years. I thought “why am I testing negative if I had the vaccine?” The Lyme tests are based on antibody levels and my tests always came back “you’re only a little bit pregnant (infected) so it can’t be Lyme.”
satby
Judge Luttig in the NYT today: Trump Betrayed America, Republicans Must Put Country Above Party (sorry about the naked link) nytimes.com/2024/10/29/opinion/donald-trump-oath.html?unlocked_article_code=1.V04.EgFx.kfCUHcF1mpPD&… (gift link from him via Twitter)
lowtechcyclist
By now, one more voice saying, “absolutely get those MFing Shingrix shots” doesn’t matter that much, but I’ll add mine to the pile-on. My case of shingles was fortunately brief, but when the trigeminal nerve in the left side of my face felt like electricity was running through it, let’s just say that’s the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced, and it sounds like I was lucky compared to some who’ve had shingles.
So I’ve had my two Shingrix shots, in each case I felt for about a day like I was coming down with something – you know, fever, chills, that sort of thing – but no big deal compared to actually having shingles. If you’re in the age range where you’re eligible to get the shots, DO IT.
Every other shot, I might or might not have a sore shoulder the rest of the day, but that’s about it. I had this year’s Covid shot a few weeks ago, and I barely noticed it afterwards. Still need to get my flu shot though.
JAFD
Good morning !
The sky grows pink over New Jersey. Look like nice day upcoming.
I used to be really fond of apricot nectar when I was kid. Haveta look for it, next time shopping. ISTR that most of America’s apricot orchards were in what’s now Silicon Valley
The docs want me to swallow ten pills every day, now, but only big one is 3/4″ Atorvastatin at bedtime. With mug of tea with milk, not problem.
Mayhaps will see some of you at Fall In* this weekend.
Best wishes for a healthy and happy Halloween / Samhain / All Saints’ Day / Dia De Los Muertos / Mischief Night / autumn festival of your choice, and hope you’se all make it thru to Spring !
*grand gathering of toy soldiers and the men who love them…
TBone
@satby: thanks for sharing that.
Princess
@Gretchen: I’d be furious with SiL too if I were your daughter. He needs to learn that his wife and child come first now, not his mother. Your daughter is going to have trouble with her until he puts his foot down.
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: I take larger pills by mixing them with yogurt on a spoon. It works very well so long as there’s no reason not to take the medication with food or dairy.
TBone
The Marsh Family is at it again!
youtu.be/YY_8WzcHqMQ
Barbara
@JoyceH: My sister in law had this surgery. I think it’s actually pretty common.
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: The Western Roman Empire was overrun by Germanic tribes but the Eastern Roman, or Byzantine Empire survived and prospered for hundreds of years after that. They even controlled Italy for a while.
In the year 1000, Constantinople was by far the wealthiest and most populous city in Europe. Then a combination of internal power struggles and pressure from Turkic tribes to the east weakened the Byzantine empire until the Ottoman Turks finally conquered Constantinople in 1453.
satby
@JAFD: Good morning JAFD! Happy almost Pumpkin (and all those other holidays) Day to you too.
MagdaInBlack
Good Morning! Gonna be in the 80’s in Chicago-land today. Yesterday it was 38 when I left for work at 6:45. Not complaining, just commenting
🎃🌻
Barbara
@Ramalama: The nurse who gave me the shingles vaccine told me that she tried to let it sit for 10 minutes at room temperature before givingthe shot, which made it less viscous so it dispersed faster. That’s also why you are advised to move your arm around. Shingles gets worse as you age. I had a mild case and I still have tingling from it in one of my arms.
raven
I’m off to my first “infusion” of BRIUMVI!
schrodingers_cat
@raven: How have you been? Haven’t seen you in a long time.
K-Mo
K-Mo
… and the 2026 Nobel prize for public health goes to Betty Cracker
TBone
@raven: that is really great news!
Ramalama
@Barbara: I had a bout with shingles last year and it was mildly annoying but I absolutely do plan on getting the vax for it. I wonder if it’s just my age (late 50s) that prevented a more dire reaction to the illness itself or if it’s my winning immune boosting formula of eating a lot of candy and homemade salsa, not together mind you.
Ramalama
@MagdaInBlack: Holy crap. That kind of weather swing makes me hope you don’t get a twister.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I’ve known maybe 4 people over 60 who’ve gotten shingles and wish they were dead during the experience.
Get vaccinated for it.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Gloria DryGarden: Lunchtime and dinnertime are later in Greece than in the US – two-ish for lunch (a lot of places don’t even open until half-past noon), and nine-ish for dinner. Unseasonably warm temperatures in Athens at the moment.
Got the latest COVID shot this morning. I was advised to wait a couple of weeks before other vaccinations, such as the flu shot.
And as for Biden and the apology to the indigenous Americans, yeah, we’re living in times where normally earth-shaking news can get plowed under by the next news cycle – heck, that’s one of the Trumpists’ go-to tricks. Plus, there’s the slight issue that the Money Men in charge of the major news distribution networks are becoming more and more blatant in decreeing what should be considered to be News.
Geminid
@Geminid: One thing I learned this year about the Byzantine Empire was that there was extensive trade between northern Europe and Constantiople. It was conducted across river networks in central Europe, with some amount of portaging. Trade items carried to Constantinople included honey and amber.
MagdaInBlack
@Ramalama: Thunderstorms tomorrow 😊
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@lowtechcyclist: Same reaction for me.
Here’s the thing about the WaPo cancellations…those of us living in reality have watched every institution that’s supposed to protect the country, its system of laws and government, fail to a greater or lesser degree and a “fourth estate” that basically papers over it all with both side bullshit, adoption of Republican framing of many of not all issues, and just generally focusing on nit picking the Democrats to death to counter balance all the corrupt, illegal, and disgusting things TCFG does.
This was the final straw to all that. We can’t make the courts work better or faster. We can’t make the FBI or CIA or any of the other departments uphold their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic other than through elections. But we can put pressure on the fourth estate to do better. Bezos signaled that he’s OK with the Post doing worse. So, y’know, its what we can do, right now, to tell everyone in the Press we see what’s going on and be better or we’re not listening, watching or reading your bullshit anymore.
BretH
@Geminid: hi, I know a long time back we had tossed around a Charlottesville meeting but never followed through. I think I saw you’re living somewhere else now. I’m always impressed by your knowledge of history – my son talks that way. He’s 25 and a little stuck about what to do with his amazing passion for it. If you have any insight you could share about how to apply it in the job world I’d truly appreciate it. I’m on gmail as bharris183 if you’d be willing to reach out.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: good morning, similar weather mood swings here. It’s now 34 degrees and we’ll be up to 80 degrees Thurs.
Singing Patsy Cline Crazy today ☺️
Ramalama
@Chet Murthy: Huh. Shorter thinner needles. I didn’t think about the amount of dosage being the factor. So as a kid I must have gotten a horse of adrenaline.
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: Your daughter is married to an Indian guy right? Indian MILs are something else.
Its funny when the #notallwhitewomen brigade on BJ gives me lectures about patriarchy as if only they have faced it. Only they have stood up to it.
Indian patriarchy is the weaponized version, like the one that existed here before the women’s movement. I have taken it on since my teenage years. Highschool bullies in the US have nothing over Indian mamis (aunties) who are experts are cowing you down into submission.
rikyrah
Feel better, BC.🙏🏽
Ramalama
Open thread so am posting here in case any other Jackal but me is a Bob’s Burgers fan. Animated show about a family running a burger joint that is both insanely funny and endearing.
The arsehole character of Jimmy Pesto, a thorn in the side of Bob the burger flipping father, is going to have to take a rest from the show because the actor who plays Pesto is going to jail as a Jan 6 Insurrectionist.
David_C
@TBone: Poor sales were probably the reason Lymerix was pulled, but there was also a fear (but no reported evidence) of a potential autoimmune response that was probably a contributing factor to the poor sales. The vaccine came out around the time of the fraudulent Wakefield paper and thee were all kinds of fears floating out there.
So sorry you had all those serious problems. Lyme disease is a devilish syndrome and, like Covid, an infection (even if not accompanied by obvious early signs and symptoms) can lead to long-term consequences. From what I read, the antibody tests pick up antibodies against multiple Borrelia proteins, whereas the vaccine just contained one. Maybe that’s why the results were confusing?
Ramalama
@TBone: Do you wake up hearing music?
Barbara
@Ramalama: I had to give myself shots for a while as part of a course of treatment. The size of the needle relates to the thickness of what has to get through it and the density of where it has to go. Subcutaneous needles are fine and short. The real breakthrough will be nasal spray vaccines, although probably not feasible for all vaccines.
sab
@Geminid: I didn’t know that. I have been avoiding horse pills for years including the calcium pill my doctor has been recommending.
Ramalama
@Barbara: OMG yes. From your lips / typing fingers to God’s laboratory.
Central Planning
When my kids were young, I would go to early childhood music classes with them on Saturday mornings. It was a great way to do something 1:1 with them since I was working full time.
In the middle of the week, we got a note that someone in the class had chicken pox. Didn’t think much of it. One of my kids ended up getting a sore above his eyebrow (spoiler: it was chickenpox)
A couple years later, he got this weird rash on part of his back and shoulder. Went to the pediatrician and was diagnosed as shingles because we remembered the sore and chickenpox notification. The doctor asked us if she could bring around the interns and other doctors on duty to see “the youngest case of shingles you will probably ever see.” Of course we said yes. How else are doctors going to learn about something like that?
It turns out our son recovered fine and didn’t appear to be in much (if any) pain from it. He says he doesn’t remember that at all.
Ramalama
@David_C: Thank you for your service.
I have a neighbor bottom of my street who has a summer house in my town. She’s a scientist working for (insert name) a company that worked with other companies in Italy, Germany, the US, other parts of Canada for the Covid vaccine. A vaccine. She told me not to tell the others on our street who she works for because she didn’t want any fall out.
Having a dog means I talk to people I normally would never. And one set of summer neighbors showed up and turns out they’re frothy against Anthony Fauci, even though he’s not Canadian.
OK got it.
lowtechcyclist
@BretH:
If there’s ever a meetup in C’ville or elsewhere in that general vicinity, I’m game for driving on down. Would love to meet Geminid, Jeffro, and anyone else around there – didn’t neenerneener move somewhere down thataway? – and it’s been too long since I spent any time in Virginia further south than, say, Mt. Vernon.
I wish I had some brilliant advice. It just seems that unless you’re one of those people who’ve known since your teens (or earlier) what you wanted to do when you were grown up, one’s 20s just suck, even (maybe especially) if you’re a smart person with a college degree that doesn’t particularly match up with a specific career track (IOW, most of them). I went through that nearly 50 years ago, my little sister had the same experience, just before the pandemic I was talking with my cousin’s daughter who was just turning 30, and that had been the story of her 20s too – just a lot of floundering around, trying different things and looking for a good fit in a world where there are far more occupations than one can imagine. And I can tell that my 17 year old son is likely to go through the same thing soon.
So the one thing I can tell your son is that he’s not alone, and it’s not his fault. It’s just the way life is these days.
Spanky
@BretH: Has your son considered the National Park Service? There are tons of historic sites in the US administered by the NPS that require every conceivable skill related to history and historic preservation. And the East Coast/Mid-Atlantic area obviously has a concentration of sites.
Geminid
@BretH: I’ve lived in Greene County now for four years and was in Augusta County for ten years before that. But Charlottesville has been my economic and social nexus for quite a while.
As for history, I am an amateur historian and can offer little professional advice. I think it’s a great field for an amateur or a professional though because there’s always more to learn. The study of history reminds me of a chess saying a friend related to me, that chess was like “an ocean that a gnat can sip and an elephant drown in.”
The idea of a Charlottesville area meetup interests me. I’m a little agoraphobic though. I caretake a nice place, a former apple orchard, so maybe I’ll invite people out here this spring and host a meet-up picnic style. It’s easy to get here from Charlottesville. I might even be able to talk Honus into coming up from Free Union and cooking some barbecue.
And guests could take away as much bamboo as they want because I have a lot of bamboo that I’ve got to cut. I appreciate you giving me your email address, and I will email you once this election is over to see if you or your son want any bamboo. I’ve got plenty of good two inch and two and-a-half inch stock.
TBone
@David_C: thank you for responding!
BretH
@Geminid: it’ll have to be early spring because we’ve bought a house in Chapel Hill and will be moving sometime in March. We’re happy to drive to you, maybe others too, but don’t need bamboo. Maybe maybe if we’re all recovered from the election, something this fall/early winter? Campfire?
TBone
@Ramalama: nope but it gets me moving in spite of physical and/or emotional pain, it soothes my soul, and one of my cats, Josie Wales of the Nicked Ear, draws close to pay attention and listen no matter where he was or what shenanigans he was up to!
David_C
@Ramalama: Thanks. :-) Until he retired, Tony Fauci as my boss’s boss’s boss. I briefed him once (by phone, darn it) about a project I was heading up (and which ended up in a label extension) and that he was presenting to Congress. His public service record and his mind are amazing.
Here’s my “author in our midst” contribution describing some often work I’ve been involved in – mostly managing a product development contract. Sorry about the paywall – our publication costs were breaking the budget that fiscal year and we cut down on open access fees (~$2K). In a few months it will be on PubMed Central.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38407357/
BretH
@lowtechcyclist: thanks! My son thanks you as well – I read your reply to him. Would love to meet you as well. I think we share a lot – my first job was a bicycle mechanic in the DC area, was one of the first DC messengers to ride a mountain bike (the dispatchers were amazed the first really snowy day) and I’ve appreciated your posts over the years.
TBone
@David_C: 💜
AWOL
@Ramalama: Thanks. I watch it once in a while in syndication. I don’t deal with fascists, so I’ll ignore the show full-time now.
Murdoch was bankrupt. Battle with Robert Maxwell over Sky-TV. Revenue from “The Simpsons” saved him. Revenue for this start-up network called “Fox News.”
The final irony to all this is that Bart probably did destroy world democracy for decades, if not for centuries. Just loathe that show that won’t go away, like the freaks in the fascist party.
BretH
@Spanky: interesting, weird we never thought of that. He’s hoping to move to Hoboken next year so an NPS job might be one where once you’re in my could possibly move around in the system.
Geminid
@BretH: Maybe we could meet up some weekend in February, when the days are getting longer and before you move. I’m five miles south of Stanardsville and Route 33, but there is a nice back way through Earlysville that takes about 40 minutes coming from Charlottesville.
I hope North Carolina is a good place for you and yours. I’ve crossed the Old North State a lot either going to the beaches and the mountains or to Atlanta. I’ve always liked North Carolina and it seems like it’s progressing in a good direction now. My friend Debbie has an an African American friend who moved from Charlottesville to Greensboro a couple years ago, and she really likes it there.
MCat
@HumboldtBlue: Yes, how is Noodles?
BretH
@Geminid: just shoot me a quick email now and we can work it out. Lowtech, you too.
Ramalama
@AWOL: Noooo. Bob’s Burgers can’t possibly be fascist supporting. The creator of the series went out against Fox a while back. And the story lines are incredibly progressive. At least I’m hopeful. I love that show.
Betsy
@Gloria DryGarden: Thank you for sharing your recollections.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: It took me a while to realize that college and grad school mostly wasn’t training for a particular job. Even trade schools and internships are that way. And even if it were somehow the case, the job would change over the next 5-10+ years , and the knowledge and skills needed for it would change, anyway.
Trade schools, college, and grad school is mostly about learning how to learn, picking up skills on how to investigate and decide about things, learning how to be self-motivated, and learning how to get help from others (and how to help others).
I do research (electronic materials, etc.). Stuff I’m working on now is very, very far removed from what I worked on in grad school, as are the techniques and tools. One has to keep learning…
Having a passion about something in one’s 20s is a great thing! Being able to make a living on something one is passionate about is an extremely rare thing. Being adjacent to one’s passion at work can be very satisfying. Mostly, working is figuring out how to get along with others and how to get the work done in spite of difficulties along the way.
Best of luck to the youngsters starting their journeys.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ramalama
@David_C: OMG Tony Fauci is a superstar in the world of Teh Gays (me a member). Which is one of the things I shouted at the partying neighbor who had been watching too much Fox news (I think?). I was in her face saying the only people against Saint Tony are perverts in the GOP, and mentioned Jim shortsleeves Jordan turning the blind eye towards pederasts in boys’ locker rooms back when he was a coach.
It kind of stunned the family to silence.
And then I said, “If you move to Florida, you’re going to have to go into battle for anything medical. Even if you happen to get great insurance.” And then told her about my parents’ experiences with their insurance company (bad). Comedian Samantha Bee says she tells her grumbling relatives in Canada (she’s Canadian) that all Americans carry a backpack of worry about whether or not they will get medical coverage … something that does not exist in Canada.
Also YIKES …
You’re working on surviving nuclear fallout? I guess getting vaccinated is nothing compared to that.
Kineslaw
I am sitting on my couch with a very sore arm from getting the Shingrix shot yesterday. I’ve known enough people that had it I got my first shot two weeks after I turned 50 and became eligible.
The first dose had me in bed. The side effects this time are much milder.
Geminid
@BretH: I will shoot you an email soon but it would b better for me to start working out a definite plan next month, after the election.
There doesn’t need to be lot of planning; it’s mainly a matter of picking a date..So look at your February calender and think about weekends in February that would work, Saturday or Sunday. You’ll be getting busy then preparing to move, but this could be a good break, a few afternoon hours picnicking and walking around a quiet place in the woods. There’s a pond with some beavers to visit.
If we can pitch a date ten weeks in advance, say by December 1, people can have plenty of time to plan for it. You can always come out in the meantime to meet and check the place out. And maybe pick up some bamboo. It can make a great Chrismas gift!
Wolvesvalley
@Betty Cracker: Another trick, which works for me, is to turn your head to the right or left as you swallow the pill.
I use water to get them past my throat, and several swigs of kefir afterwards to get them all the way down.
Citizen Dave
Haven’t read all the comments (sorry) but I swear 40 years ago as a teen I received a shot (tetanus vaccine?) with a metal round circular thingy without the one needle. Hmmmm
wenchacha
@Chet Murthy: Oh wow. Asymptomatic Chicken pox is something I never thought about. I had them as a baby, and I guess my mom was pretty concerned about all the blebs on my face. I have maybe one tiny pox mark. My own infant son got them and he looked like Baron Harkonnen from the 1984 Dune.
My kids both had pox just a year or two before the vaccine was being used in clinical trials.
jame
The shingrex shot made me cry, too.
pika
@Ramalama: I’m a huge fan of Mr. Show where Johnston was an important part of the ensemble (his role in “The Story of Everest” is one of the great classic comedy performances) and improv generally, and it’s been a running grim joke on improv podcasts like Comedy Bang Bang to allude to a community member who was at the Capitol without saying his name
Ruckus
@eclare:
Lucky you.
I had every childhood disease available when I was a child, had every shot available, which when I was born was one. Second one came out when I was 6. And of course some of them come in a series of shots. Good times. At least I didn’t get any of the big nasty diseases, just every single one of the ones that everyone else got as well. Oh well, one can’t decide when they get to be born….
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
I take 11 pills a day, split morning and bedtime. Vitamins, minerals, one actual prescription medication. I still like modern medicine over what diseases were around when I was born, because some of them were just a tad less than fun. Polio was one of them. Anyone my age or older likely understands.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Chet Murthy: THIS. His mother endangers his children, and his first action is to comfort HER!
Mike S
My second shingles shot was like the worst flu I ever had for 36 hours. Better than the months of misery my friend who had shoeless went through though.
Nyquil and water got me through it. I slept for at least 15 hours.
Feel better and hydrate. This too shall pass.
Ruckus
@Ramalama:
It’s the needles. How they are made, the sharpness. If you are in the senior age category and got shots as a kid they sucked because the machines and process to make the needles wasn’t nearly as good as it is today. I worked in manufacturing tooling starting when I was 12-13 – family business, and what could be made then compared to today is night/day difference. Actually more like decade/decade difference. Sure it’s a shot, but if you are an old, like me, you know the difference between then and now. Shots are still not all that and a box of cookies but the needles are a lot sharper and possibly smaller than many decades ago.
opiejeanne
@JoyceH: My opthalmologist has been watching it for a few years, and this year he sent me to a plastic surgeon.
Surgery is on Hallowe’en, and I’ll have 2 black eyes when they’re finished. Too bad we don’t get any kids at the door these days because I could easily scare the pants off of them, but they all go into town or their church for Trunk or Treat.
Ruckus
@Black_Onion:
We all can do our parts but it is humanity. Not everyone is on the same page, not everyone wants the same thing. Mental acuity is not the same human to human. We have far better education than when old farts were young, but there is also more to learn. We have a human who was president and wants to be again, because he’s such a putz that he’s gotten himself into just a bit of “issues” – again – and really has one choice (one that isn’t actually his choice to make) that will keep him from – what are those 2 words – legal issues. I always like to remember that if it was easy more people could do it, if it was far easier shitforbrains could – nope, he couldn’t have helped himself – he’s shitforbrains. (Now do you see where I got that moniker?)
Ruckus
@Chet Murthy:
It wasn’t before the time of people alive today, like me. There was one vaccine when I was born, smallpox. One had to have a shot to attend school where I lived.
way2blue
Badger does look put out. Hope you’re feeling better by now.
(Just need my second son to turn in his ballot! I’m avoiding all the psych-ops polling blather that’s ratcheting up—it helps.)
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
As an old I can say with just a touch of authority that it is a human thing and really not all that much different anywhere. I’ve traveled a lot over my lifetime, to different parts of the world and met people from many countries and walks of life. Sure, people sort of fit into groups based on where and how they were raised but while there are differences based on that where and how they were raised, as a biological group, much of our differences are often relatively minor. And like everything else in life there are exceptions to the somewhat vague rules.
StringOnAStick
@Gloria DryGarden: Classic Italian plums are the ones to dry for prunes.
Manyakitty
@Betsy: the second Shingrix shot laid me out for over a week. Still better than getting shingles.
Manyakitty
@Ramalama: I thought they replaced him.
Ramalama
@pika: Ooh, thanks for the rec. Gonna give Comedy Bang Bang a listen.
Ramalama
@Ruckus: So the machinery is better. Is it that manufacturers are using different materials than olden times to make shots or is it better engineering?
Probably a chicken-egg answer.
StringOnAStick
@opiejeanne: I had a friend stay with me when she has this surgery. Use the ice packs and pain meds, and be confident that it’s a really successful surgery and is a miracle in the making. She’s still employed in a high stress job and the work it took to keep her eyes open was more exhausting than she realized. It also took 10 years off her face too.
StringOnAStick
@Ramalama: The needles are also disposable now, and that means thinner and sharper. In the old days they were reusable, huge diameter and obviously not as sharp once they get used a bit. When I was given oral anesthetic injections, I could tell by the 3rd poke that the needle was getting dull, those are very small diameter needles that can not be used effectively outside the mouth, just too thin to get through “outside” skin.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: this is probably too late for you to see it. I have twin daughters. One is married to an Indian guy, and was prepared for cultural differences. Her MIL is amazing, sensitive, helpful, and careful to include me in things. Other twin is married to a guy whose parents grew up in Argentina, and expect to be the center of everything. That’s the one who is mad about being blamed for giving baby covid. Don’t we know that her feelings are what really matter?
The Indian MIL is a Catholic from Kerala. We are Irish/Italian Catholics, so the cultural difference is less than it might have been
I think it also helped that SIL was in his late 20s and showing no signs of marrying when my daughter turned up, so they were more relieved that he found someone than upset that the someone was a white girl.
Jacel
@Gloria DryGarden: In the 1950s, during my grandfather’s last days of life he had shingles on top of all the other ailments. My brother and I came down with chicken pox from that and were really knocked out by the time he died. I’m glad my younger brother and I talked about this in recent years, because his memory was that grandfather caught the shingles from our chicken pox, which killed him.
RedDirtGirl
@Gretchen: They seem to set up the next season that way.
SomeRandomGuy
They are working on a nasal vaccine for respiratory threats in general, and Covid-19 in particular, but, seriously, unless you’re “OUCH OUCH OW OW OW” to the *needle*, it’s not going to make vaccines more pleasant in their reaction. So if your entire arm is sore after getting a Covid-19 shot (and I know, you said *shingles*), then you might have a bad headache after a Covid-19 nasal spray vaccine.
Now, I got allergy shots. For me, a tiny needle isn’t scary at all – which doesn’t mean I haven’t had a perfect nerve strike once in a while! (I swear, that nurse was part Vulcan.) So for me, the one and only scary part of a vaccine is the after effects. I realized that, for me, the morbid truth might be I’m in too much background pain and so forth to notice how cruddy the vaccine makes me feel. You know, like, if I journaled *everything*, I might have noticed a slight increase in crud, a day or so post-vaccination, but since I didn’t, there was no way I’d think “wow, I feel relatively more like crap than normal…”.
Would I ruin your day if I said, gummy meds would still need to be swallowed whole (so, not *much* advantage over gelatin capsules, except, you know, gummy)? Some medications (including THC and other ETOH extractable friends from the marijuana flower) can be absorbed through mucous membranes (like your mouth and tongue), so, while you might think marijuana tincture is called “green dragon” for the alcohol burn, you’re wrong – it’s also the drug absorption that causes bitterness and burn. Some would be beautifully colored crystal clear gummies that you wouldn’t want to sit on your tongue for more half a second.
Um. But don’t feel like a wimp because of the shingles vaccine. I was told you might have a horrific reaction either shot, pretty much independent of how the other shot went. Huh? Well, yes, I was told *you* might have a horrific reaction, I just told you I can’t track *my* horrific effects, but, I can assure you, I was laid up and felt like I’d been on the losing side of a fight for the week after each shot.
It’s just, in my case, I didn’t notice anything *different* – I got the impression other folks, like you, would.
Modern medicine sucks sometimes, and the body’s eternal vigilance against possible infection is a harsh mistress.
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: typical steppes weather. In Colorado we get those big temp swings. Not all the time, but our plants are mostly adapted to the big swings. It does sometimes kill trees etc. It’s a big deal, and we’re used to it.
strange to think of these wild swings happening over by you.