Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

When we show up, we win.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Everybody saw this coming.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

American history and black history cannot be separated.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

So many bastards, so little time.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / TGIFriday Morning Open Thread: Compare and Contrast…

TGIFriday Morning Open Thread: Compare and Contrast…

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Compare & contrast, healthcare edition:



I haven’t heard rumors about Dr. Oz being a Russian asset, so I’m guessing he just wrote a seven-figure check directly to Donald Trump…

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  4. 4.

    Barbara

    My work requires me to be knowledgeable about things like the travails of rural hospitals, and although I will never say I don’t care about rural health access, any mental energy aimed at alleviating the problem is a complete waste of time because there is no receptive audience that is empowered to make things better. Those in charge would rather bellow about the problem than solve it.

  5. 5.

    Math Guy

    Remember that the people telling us we should get our healthcare in 15 minute doses, accept a 3% mortality risk, or be ready to endure some economic hardship are talking about you; their wealth will keep them insulated from the effects of the policies they are pushing.

  7. 7.

    RevRick

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” H. L. Mencken

  9. 9.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    The “Illness Industrial Complex”?

    Well, given how our medical system is a complete clusterfuck, I hate to admit this but that’s a pretty apt description when standing alone and you bring in all the players like insurance, etc.

    Of course in the context of this, it’ll be the label they use to segue into attempts to dismantle the ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

  10. 10.

    hrprogressive

    @Math Guy: ​
     

    Now, keep this in mind should H5N1 decide to blow up into a pandemic with a double-digit CFR while these Fascist thug clowns are in power.

  11. 11.

    mrmoshpotato

    Remember during COVID when Dr. Oz said he’s ok with 2-3% of children dying so they can open schools

    Time for John Oliver to do another episode on Supplement Boy.

  12. 12.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Barbara:

    My work requires me to be knowledgeable about things like the travails of rural hospitals, and although I will never say I don’t care about rural health access, any mental energy aimed at alleviating the problem is a complete waste of time because there is no receptive audience that is empowered to make things better. Those in charge would rather bellow about the problem than solve it.

    You make it sound like some House members don’t give a damn about their rural constituents.

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    Morning, folks. Life has been …busy the last couple of weeks, culminating with the text from my dad yesterday morning “Hit by a truck. Lucky to be alive”. Fun times.  Thankfully, truck was going slowly enough that it just knocked him over and he “just” needs a few screws inserted in one hip.

  14. 14.

    mrmoshpotato

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    The “Illness Industrial Complex”?

    Well, given how our medical system is a complete clusterfuck, I hate to admit this but that’s a pretty apt description when standing alone and you bring in all the players like insurance, etc.

    But I’ve been told my entire life that we’re the greatest country in the world!

  16. 16.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @mrmoshpotato:

    You make it sound like some House members don’t give a damn about their rural constituents.

    Sure they care…they define “care” as maybe (on a good day) providing their rurl constituents bootstraps.

    Cuz who needs hospitals, doctors, nurses, dentists and all that when you have bootstraps?

  19. 19.

    H.E.Wolf

    @RevRick: ​
    I’m more of an Abraham Davenport type.

    “The day of judgment is either approaching, or it is not. If it is not, there is no cause for an adjournment; if it is, I choose to be found doing my duty. I wish therefore that candles may be brought.”

    Toward which end, this week I ordered stamps for GOTV postcards. There’s a (judicial?) election in WI soon, and I want to be prepared.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Davenport

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    @mrmoshpotato: Thanks. Surgery is later today, and if it goes smoothly he should be able to go home tomorrow. Then I get to see if I can change my plane ticket to get there a few days earlier than planned. Not a great week for flexible travel arrangements….

  21. 21.

    Soprano2

    Got this from TPM. I copied the whole thing because it’s pretty short. This goes along with my idea to take pictures of some prices right before the inauguration. Next time I hear someone talk about $1.50/gal gas, I’m going to remind them why it was like that. If we had $1.50/gal gas, we’d be in a depression.

    My Kingdom for Some Scorecards
    By Josh Marshall
    |
    November 21, 2024 8:38 p.m.

    I’ve been thinking about this since the day after the election and been going back and forth on whether to say someone else should do it or just do it myself. Still not sure which but here goes. It would be very beneficial for Democrats to create scorecards right now charting where inflation, unemployment and GDP were at the end of Biden’s term and regularly updating it with Trump’s latest numbers. One of the smaller benefits of this is these three numbers are currently pretty hard to beat. You can only get them slightly lower or higher, depending on which statistic you’re referring to and you can get them much further into bad territory. I’d also add percentage of people with health insurance, even though that’s not normally considered an economic marker.

    Leading into the November election one of the big talking points was that this time Trump would be more ready, more experienced and better assisted in doing bad things. That’s true. But it works both ways. His opponents should be and are more prepared. We know the guy’s playbook. A year from now if he’s lucky enough to have these numbers where they are now, he’ll be talking them up – in endless repetition – as evidence of the gangbusters Trump economy which is the best ever. He got a lot of mileage out of that in his first term despite the fact that he’d inherited that economy in solid shape from Barack Obama. You counter this with a chorus to remind everyone – constantly – that he’s bragging about the numbers he got from Joe Biden. Quite likely those numbers will be worse. And there should be a chorus reminding everyone of that. A chorus. Shareable infographics, memes, and more.

    Nothing matters, you say? Bullshit.

    What matters is consistent, easy to understand repetition, in line with a really constant recitation of what the opposition party offers. These things do matter. But it can’t come only at election time. It can’t be in policy-speak. It has to be in the language and idioms and visuals of social and alternative media where people are really getting most of their information.

    Added to that, the country is now covered with embryonic factories, businesses, economic redevelopment projects and more courtesy of Joe Biden’s CHIPS act and the Inflation Reduction Act. Most of them are only just starting to get off the ground. And they’re disproportionately in Red States or areas of Trump strength. There needs to be a concerted and consistent and voluble effort to brand these as projects and jobs brought to you by Democrats or Joe Biden, the precise mix there is open to debate.

    This is first of all to take credit for what Democratic votes accomplished with an eye to future elections. But it’s as much to prevent them from being canceled by Trump and the Republican Congress. Different projects are more or less easy to cut or cancel. And many of these factories and manufacturing enterprises will be protected by Republican members of Congress because no one likes losing jobs in their states or districts. But it’s critical to start doing this now.

    This is not a plan for Democrats’s future. There are a bunch of other things that are necessary too. But it’s a critical part, albeit by no means the largest, of any plan for the future. Winning elections turns much more on creative and forward-thinking new means of blocking and tackling than it does on ingenious strategies.

  22. 22.

    schrodingers_cat

    We could have had peace and prosperity for 4 more years but the media and their white liberal audience wanted excitement that boring old Joe Biden didn’t provide so here we are.

    Congratulations! You got all the excitement you wished for and more.

  24. 24.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: I think the press wanted TCFG back. I think the voters want to go back to 2019. That’s what they think they voted for. We have to remind them every day that they aren’t getting that.

  25. 25.

    H.E.Wolf

    More near-term: Good morning, all. And best wishes for good health and/or recovery (yikes, Dmsilev’s Dad!) to you and yours.

  27. 27.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @H.E.Wolf:

    And I’d like to thank you (I think it was you) who suggested rollering my calves after running as a way to help mitigate the unusually nasty flare up of plantar fasciitis.  It’s helped immensely.

  28. 28.

    dmsilev

    @Soprano2: It’s had its ups and downs. My colleagues and I now start twitching uncontrollably when anyone says the phrase “chilled water”; that’s been a three month and counting “adventure” which hopefully has about only three or four more weeks to go before finally being over. Lot of more interesting work as well. And then …everything else.

  31. 31.

    Unabogie

    Ugh, I hate to defend Mehmet Oz, who is a quack and a bad person and grifter, but I think he was talking about an increase in rate of overall mortality of 2%, so if the mortality rate of Covid was 2%, then it would increase to 2.04%. Which is still terrible and represents thousands of preventable deaths! But the pedant in me insists on correct information.

    That said, he’s horribly unqualified and together with RFK, will kill a LOT of people if given the power to do so.

  32. 32.

    Rusty

    @Barbara: I’m sure the Republican plan to kill $300B in ACA subsidies, along with Medicaid and Medicare cuts will do wonders for the finances of rural hospitals.

  34. 34.

    Spanky

    Well, the radar tells me the snow has crossed the Mason-Dixon Line and it’s advancing on Baltimore. Down here it’s sunny, but the clouds are advancing from the north.

    Too warm (40) to snow, sadly, but we’ll have rain all afternoon and evening. We need it.

  35. 35.

    Nancy

    @dmsilev:

    Thinking of you and your dad. That is never, ever, a good message to get from anyone. Hope his recovery is as smooth as he thinks it will be.

  38. 38.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @dmsilev: that hip thing can be a big deal, if they don’t put it together soon enough.

    my dad was a great minimized, too. Good luck. Yikes

  40. 40.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    the media and their white liberal audience wanted excitement that boring old Joe Biden didn’t provide

    So you’re saying that it was white liberals who get their news from CNN, the FTFNYT, etc. (as distinct from the newsmakers they’d see when they were watching CNN) who pushed for Biden to step aside.

    Gotta admit, I’m curious as to what evidence you have of this.

  41. 41.

    H.E.Wolf

    @schrodingers_cat: ​
     As an alternative to mainstream media for news [sic], I’m partial to Electoral-Vote.com – two bloggers who write up the previous day’s news on M-F and do a Q&A on Sat. They usually publish the daily blog post at ~ 6 AM West Coast Time.

    Today’s Electoral-Vote.com post leads off with good news, so I recommend it. :)

    (I prefer the Tues/Wed/Fri blogger, because he’s a history professor and takes a wider view.)

  42. 42.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Ben Cisco: The US has dominated the world since WWII and as a result  many privileged people in this country have lost the basic survival instinct that every living being has. Voting for Trump is an own goal of epic proportions.

    Its not just the MAGAs I am talking about.

  47. 47.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Unabogie: Right.  Still deplorable.

    From NYT article
    Dr. Oz Faces Backlash After Saying Schools Could Reopen

    During an interview on Fox News on Tuesday, Dr. Oz, a frequent guest on the network, said the idea of reopening schools was “an appetizing opportunity” in light of an article in a medical journal “arguing that the opening of schools may only cost us 2 to 3 percent in terms of total mortality.”

  48. 48.

    cmorenc

    @mrmoshpotato:

    You make it sound like some House members don’t give a damn about their rural constituents.

    Oh, but they do care about those among their constituents who own car dealerships and contribute to their campaign, or a pulpit to preach the moral importance of electing Republicans instead of immoral Democrats.

  49. 49.

    p.a.

    The psychological benefits the MAGAts get from Rethug pols threatening this election cycle’s targets makes up for the decimation of rural healthcare by providing at least a few milliseconds of extra life for them before they meet Free Market Jeebus.

  50. 50.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Spanky:

    Well, the radar tells me the snow has crossed the Mason-Dixon Line and it’s advancing on Baltimore. Down here it’s sunny, but the clouds are advancing from the north.

    Too warm (40) to snow, sadly, but we’ll have rain all afternoon and evening. We need it.

    Yeah, no way it’s gonna snow here, but maybe I ought to get out there and mulch the fallen leaves this morning before they all get drenched again.  (The rain gauge said we got just shy of an inch Wednesday night.)

  53. 53.

    H.E.Wolf

    @mrmoshpotato: ​OT – oh you jackasses with intentionally loud engines and mufflers…

     …and teeny-tiny penises, poor things.

    I have fond memories of the “Car Talk” radio show guys* dubbing the latest giant Ford truck “The Compensatah” in their Boston accents.

    * “Don’t drive like my brothah!” “Don’t drive like MY brothah!” at the close of each episode.

  54. 54.

    LAC

    @Ben Cisco: They so are.

    And what the fuck was soooooo special about 2019? The year of K Pop?  We are going just keep making lame excuses for these people’?

  55. 55.

    Gloria DryGarden

    From the last thread

    joe Biden is still president for another 59 days. Can’t we have a thread to notice what’s going on in his administration? Can’t we enjoy it?

    i don’t mind being alerted, or prepared for a bunch of worst case scenarios. I just don’t see the point inONLY chatting about intense fears, angst, worries and clearly naming each piece of the unfurling shit show. That’s what main stream news does, it tries to break peoples hearts, get attention, or clicks, keep people hooked on negative emotions.
    Yes we have to talk about the darkness. It doesn’t have to be so unrelenting.
    The nervous system needs a break . And Biden deserves some good reporting, even if it’s just on this blog.

  59. 59.

    RevRick

    @H.E.Wolf: This sounds like a variation of the apocryphal quote of Martin Luther: “If I knew the world would end tomorrow, I would still plant an apple tree today.”

  61. 61.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: @Ben Cisco: The US has dominated the world since WWII and as a result  many privileged people in this country have lost the basic survival instinct that every living being has. Voting for Trump is an own goal of epic proportions.

    It’s not just the MAGAs I am talking about.

    QFT.  I feel kind of resigned in a way. I want to fight back, but I also feel that the only way for these people to learn at this point is for them to get what they voted for.

  62. 62.

    Gloria DryGarden

    From the last open thread:

    A friend just sent me this poem by a fourth grader. Knocked my socks off. Don’t have the child’s name.

    “I am done with watching the world burn
    Life, help me to Live
    all I want is to run in the
    Wild
    the way I did when I was
    not afraid.
    Lucy,
    Wild lynx, say it:
    I am not afraid“

  64. 64.

    Soprano2

    @H.E.Wolf: I miss those guys, we listened to them every week. I liked that they weren’t beholden to anyone except themselves, so they could tell the truth about cars.

  67. 67.

    TBone

    I’m already subjected to getting my health “care” in fifteen minute doses.  Nobody with an actual M.D. after their name spends more time than that with patients in my locale. If you want face time, you get a physician assistant or nurse, and they don’t spend longer than 15 minutes on average, either.

    It is not, however, in a festival-like setting.

  68. 68.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    i don’t mind being alerted, or prepared for a bunch of worst case scenarios. I just don’t see the point inONLY chatting about intense fears, angst, worries and clearly naming each piece of the unfurling shit show. 

    I take it you don’t watch CNN or MSNBC! :)

    Good for you and your mental health.  (Seriously.)

  70. 70.

    Soprano2

    @TBone: I’ve actually found that a couple of my husband’s PA’s are better than the doctors! More practical and more straightforward about things.

  73. 73.

    mrmoshpotato

    @schrodingers_cat:

    many privileged people in this country have lost the basic survival instinct that every living being has. Voting for Trump is an own goal of epic proportions. 

    Tell me about the trees voting.  Who did the tulips elect as their leader?

  74. 74.

    TBone

    @Soprano2: when I first suffered the Covid multi-system inflammation (blew up like a balloon overnight), the nonchalant nurse told me to take water pills (diuretics).  Fuck her.  Staying hydrated is still a serious problem for me to this day.

    ETA manners! I’m GLAD your experience is better than mine!

  75. 75.

    Soprano2

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well I know that, and you know that, but I think a lot of the voters think they can somehow will that to happen. How else can you explain how people can remember $1.50/gal gas but can’t remember why it was so cheap?

  79. 79.

    Jeffg166

    I liked that President Sheinbaum has told the felon if he starts to deport people to Mexico there are 2 million Americans  living in Mexico she will deport.

  81. 81.

    RevRick

    @H.E.Wolf: Also, Stamford Connecticut is my hometown.

    @Omnes Omnibus: The Puritans were a lot of things, but because they are held in such contempt, we forget that most progressive impulses in America began with them. For instance, the Massachusetts Bay Colony passed a law criminalizing spousal abuse in 1639.

  83. 83.

    TBone

    @RevRick: my ancestors!

    You have inspired me to take the next thing or book out of my Ancestors Treasure Box today.

    Anticipation 💜

    If it’s great, I will share/report.

    My first foray into said bin revealed a 1902 book of Robert G. Ingersoll lectures.

  84. 84.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RevRick: I am very much aware.  A lot of what we blame on Puritans tend to be the Victorians fault when you get right down to it.

    FWIW I have ancestors hanged as witches in both MA and CT.  On the MA side, I also have accusers, ministers, and judges from the 1692 witch trials.

  85. 85.

    ArchTeryx

    My mother’s a member of this cult. She was a big fan of “Dr.” Oz until he was outed as an outright fascist. Despite being in her 80s, having her idols turn out to be fascists is a bridge too far. She’s firmly on the D side. (She lives in Michigan).

    And now the Cult of Woo is going to not only be inflicted on the rest of us, but is going to be used as the tip of the spear to attack every health program we have.

    What would COVID had been like if the Rs had been successful, in 2017, in repealing the ACA and destroying Medicaid? They intended to block-grant Medicaid so Grandma wouldn’t be thrown out of her nursing home, but the poor would be 100% left out to rot. And that was before COVID came.

    10,000,000 new people without health insurance, and we get hit by COVID. That would have turned a disaster into a catastrophe. That’s what they want for us.

  89. 89.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: i love how science is catching up. I wasn’t even high.
    The trees, baby, the trees and the miles of mycelium..

    I’ve had people quote bible at me and tell me I can’t talk to my planties, they aren’t sentient.

    bosh¡!

  90. 90.

    cain

    @Soprano2:

    Yep. Still should fight for Congress and statehouses but I think we should let the GOP have the presidency since apparently Americans don’t have any basic civic sense in economy, govt, and education.

    It’s gonna suck but we waste too much time and energy on the presidency and people seem to think that solving problems is an EO away.

  91. 91.

    cmorenc

    @ArchTeryx:

    10,000,000 new people without health insurance, and we get hit by COVID. That would have turned a disaster into a catastrophe. That’s what they want for us.

    What wealthy Republicans want is to be free from the burden of being taxed to help support benefitting anyone other than themselves personally.  Because they are the makers and they resent their productivity being burdened by the takers.  I’ve heard this from various amond them for decades.

  96. 96.

    HinTN

    @dm: I bought some of these from Kroger. Thankfully, they remained unopened (at least the latest bag).  I got a recall notice on my receipt (how many people read those???) and got them replaced.

    It’s going to be a mess.

  98. 98.

    ArchTeryx

    @cmorenc: The trouble is, COVID doesn’t distinguish between “makers” and “takers” like they think it does. Poor people made excellent vectors to throw the virus into the rest of the population, and even billionaires were getting sick with it. (None died, more’s the pity). However, Medicaid wasn’t cut, it was EXPANDED to try and slow the spread, and help us come out of it faster. It worked, and probably saved a lot of lives Trump had left out to die.

  100. 100.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @mrmoshpotato: well, people have been flapping here about the shut show, the creep is not yet even president.
    i want some attention on the present. Might as well enjoy it while we can.

  101. 101.

    Almost Retired

    Re rural health care and its role in this election:  We were in Montana for a week in September.  The sheer volume of Senate campaign commercials was so overwhelming that I felt sorry for the car dealers trying to squeeze in an ad.

    Tester ran ads highlighting statements made by Sheehy about “privatizing” Medicare, eliminating ACA subsidies, etc.   The ad argued that Sheehy’s positions would severely damage an already strained rural healthcare system.

    Local media jumped on this, labeling Tester’s claims “mostly false.”  Sheehy, they said, did not propose to “eliminate” Medicare.  True enough, but Tester was essentially promoting limiting Medicare to the Part C private insurance option, which kinda sorta sounds like privatization to me.  But why bother with that level of nuance when you can shit on a Democrat and exaggerate and misrepresent Tester’s claim.

    And then the media helpfully reminded us that the ultra-rich carpetbagger Sheehy used some of his own money to prop up a rural hospital and health care clinic somewhere somehow once.  People across much of Whitefish could hear me shrieking and howling at the television.

  102. 102.

    narya

    @Omnes Omnibus: There’s an old collection of John Sayles’ short stories called “At the Anarchists’ Convention” (or something similar); that particular story reminded me of the anarchist picnics I attended as a kid, but the whole collection is quite good. Highly recommend, if you’re looking for diversion.

  103. 103.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @cain: I do agree that there is too much focus on the presidency and the presidency alone on our side.  Part of the reason the GOP has had its successes over the past 50 years is because it put real effort into state and local elections.  A lot happens at those levels.   I don’t agree that we should let them have the presidency though.  Fuck that noise.

  106. 106.

    Another Scott

    @dmsilev: Tell your colleagues that 3-4 months is blindingly fast.  A little bird told me of a place where chilled water plant and facility plumbing issues have been ongoing for a decade or so…

    Good luck to your pops, and with the travel stuff.  Hang in there.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Jackie:. People who wanted Joe Biden to step down because of the polling and his debate performance.

    After people who voted for Trump

    Voted third party

    Or stayed at home.

    Our toxic media

    The Biden is too old crowd, has a stutter on our side is to blame for this debacle. They shit on all his achievements instead of celebrating his successes. They took the bait the media was dangling in front of them on the behalf of Republicans and Trump.

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat:

    We could have had peace and prosperity for 4 more years but the media and their white liberal audience wanted excitement that boring old Joe Biden didn’t provide so here we are.

    Congratulations! You got all the excitement you wished for and more.

    I have to agree.  It is sickening.   Of course, also the problem of the rightwing media consumers who “think” Democrats are Satan Incarnate.

  111. 111.

    Kosh III

    @RevRick: we forget that most progressive impulses in America began with them.

     

    And they fought and nearly exterminated a society in the Pequot War 1636.  Love one another, right?

  112. 112.

    TBone

    @TBone: I just emailed the White House using the ERA Coalition script at their link AND adding in my own, thanking the best president of my lifetime for everything he’s accomplished.  It took a moment.

    (They also provide a link to send email or text, as well as the necessary phone numbers.)

  113. 113.

    ArchTeryx

    @Almost Retired: Just another of a million examples that the media is wired for Republicans. The truth is dismissed as false, and falsities are elevated as truth if it helps the (R) candidate.

  117. 117.

    Kosh III

    Dr Oz saying the uninsured can have “access” to healthcare means you can get it IF you can pay for it and IF you meet the rules of whatever malignant company(Blue Cross, Cigna etc) will deign to allow you to apply.

    Remember: Republican health care is get sick and die.

  118. 118.

    moonbat

    @Kosh III: You could also see them as the forerunners of the prosperity Chrisitanists of today with their concept of only the ‘elect’ getting into heaven.

    And the way you knew who the ‘elect’ were was by how rich they were, of course. Very progressive. /s

  120. 120.

    Ben Cisco

    @Soprano2: Same. I’m occupied with looking out for my mom, my girlfriend, and myself. These clowns are gunning for Medicare, ACA, and VA benefits. My plate is FULL and I don’t have time, energy, or patience required to deal with willfully uninformed/misinformed/disinformed/racist/misogynist people.

     

    ETA: I don’t care how they got there; they got there and have enabled a threat to me and mine. FULL STOP.

  121. 121.

    narya

    @mrmoshpotato: I sorta do! This guy was one of the people who was there. And when my grandfather died, a different man gave my parents an inscribed copy of a biography of Emma Goldman; it turns out that Goldman got that guy out of jail at one point. It touched me, because it made it clear that my grandfather had talked about me to the man.

  122. 122.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @narya: [the Anarchists Convention]
    I love that story! There’s a great Selected Shorts reading by Jerry Stiller.

    “Mind the shuttles!”

  124. 124.

    narya

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: :-) Sayles has a special place in my heart. No matter the medium–film, novels, short stories–he’s a master of good stories, well-told, which is my criterion for those media.

  125. 125.

    RevRick

    @Kosh III: The causes of this war are complex and hard to sort out. In part, it was due to growing encroachment on Wampanoag territory by the British settlers of Plymouth Colony to which the Wampanoag responded with raids. The outward trigger was the hanging of three Wampanoags for the murder of another. This triggered more raids on settlements by the various native tribes, and that in turn led to the states calling out their militias to violently suppress them. It quickly became a mutually genocidal war, with the near extermination of the native populations and an estimated 15% death toll amongst the white settlers.

  127. 127.

    Geminid

    @Gloria DryGarden: My late friend Chris told me about a couple of friends who were getting some pre-marital counseling from Chris’s Uncle Ickie. Uncle Ickie was an older preacher in a fundamentalist Black church.

    So John, Donna Ray and Uncle Ickie were about to start a prayer for the prospective marriage when Donna Ray’s cat jumped into her lap.

    Donna Ray: “Aww. Skippy wants to pray too.”

    Uncle Ickie: “Cat ain’t got no soul. Says so in the Bible.”.

  132. 132.

    frosty

    @lowtechcyclist: @Spanky: We’ve been getting snow just north of the Mason-Dixon line all morning. More like lots of flakes than a snowstorm though, which is fine with me. Makes it a good day to stay inside (and maybe cook) but not enough that I have to get the snow shovels out.

  134. 134.

    H.E.Wolf

    Okay, gotta run. Time to assemble the motley collection of objects I’ve stacked up for Homemade Exercise Session, and meet one of my siblings on Zoom for hilarity and our weekly strength-and-resistance training. We’ve progressed from 5 min. when we first started this, to 40.

    May we all incrementally increase our strength and resistance, and still find room for hilarity. Happy Friday to you all!

  136. 136.

    artem1s

    @Rusty: Medicaid and Medicare cuts will do wonders for the finances of rural hospitals.

    not to mention Memaw and Papaw’s retirement home. Where do the MAGAt’s think the payments for staying in those places comes from?

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    @Jeffg166:

    I liked that President Sheinbaum has told the felon if he starts to deport people to Mexico there are 2 million Americans  living in Mexico she will deport.

     

    CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP

  138. 138.

    frosty

    @mrmoshpotato: ​I don’t know who the tulips elected as a leader but I’m sure it was Dutch. First they came and cut all of our doors in half … (h/t National Lampoon – Americans United to Beat the Dutch).

    ETA @Omnes Omnibus: Thought provoking …

  139. 139.

    Realworldrj

    Rightwing motherfuckers yelled and jeered Michelle Obama when she suggested that kids should eat healthier but they are going to cheer like crazy when Oz turns Medicare into a giant Jillian 6 minute ab circus show on TV featuring the poors

  140. 140.

    RevRick

    @moonbat: While Puritans and their successors, and white Evangelicals both claim to be Calvinists, the latter made a deal with the devil in their gradual transformation from grudging tolerance to full-throated defense of the institution of slavery.
    The Puritan/Congregationalists and their cousins the Presbyterians and Unitarians were in the forefront of the Abolitionist movement. And before that they were in the forefront of the anti tribal removal campaign.
    First anti slavery sermon: Samuel Sewell, 1700. First African American ordained in the ministry: Lemuel Haynes, 1785. First woman ordained: Antoinette Brown, 1853. First openly gay man ordained: Bill Johnson, 1980. Advocating a woman’s right to choose, 1971.
    Nobody and no group is pure and blameless. We all have blood on our hands. If we put anyone’s life and ancestors under a microscope, we’d always find a ton of shittiness somewhere. So, before you go pointing your finger, tell me about where the shittiness lies in your family/ethnic/religious tree.

  142. 142.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: TCFG’s people talk about the remain in Mexico policy as if Mexico has no say in it! They seem to think they can just impose that on Mexico.

  143. 143.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RevRick: Literacy and education.  Since salvation was individual, people had to be able to read the Bible and understand it.  This broadened into a sense of the importance of education in general.

  145. 145.

    RevRick

    @Omnes Omnibus: Every family tree is composed of victims, persecutors, and rescuers.

    I have a Hungarian Jewish grandmother and the other three are descendants of Germans and Slavs. No love lost between any of them.

  147. 147.

    Miss Bianca

    @RevRick: to say nothing of free public education, a respect for learning…yeah, the Puritans get a bad rap. Much of it deserved, but some of their actual virtues could be better appreciated nowadays.

  148. 148.

    Aziz, light!

    @Jeffg166:

    I liked that President Sheinbaum has told the felon if he starts to deport people to Mexico there are 2 million Americans  living in Mexico she will deport.

    He doesn’t care what happens to Americans.

  151. 151.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    People who wanted Joe Biden to step down because of the polling and his debate performance.

    Ah yes, the white liberals watching CNN and reading the FTFNYT somehow made this happen.  Did they deluge their Congresscritters with calls and letters?  Or was it some mass group overmind sort of thing?  I’m trying to come up with cause and effect here.

  152. 152.

    satby

    @Aziz, light!: he doesn’t, but they and their families do. 2 million expatriates who moved to Mexico to live a more luxurious lifestyle than they can afford here (ocean views, servants) will be major league pissed off. Add in the threatened cuts to social security, which will piss off non-expatriates too.

  156. 156.

    Kathleen

    @LAC: Alas,  we are. The fact we keep seeing code words “economic anxiety” and “Dems are bad at messaging (subtext: “But what about the white people?”) year after year after year. Lee Atwater should be proud.

  157. 157.

    gene108

    Rural people don’t want easy healthcare access. If they did, they wouldn’t keep voting for Republicans.

  159. 159.

    The Truffle

    All this is great but…

     

    Dems need their own Contract with America. Where is our Newt Gingrich?

  161. 161.

    dnfree

    @schrodingers_cat: Sorry, but I am really tired of being accused of being “to blame for this debacle” because I “shit on all his achievements instead of celebrating his successes”.

    I didn’t take “the bait the media was dangling…on behalf of Republicans and Trump”.

    I observed the debate and surrounding information about Biden’s demeanor and appearance in the context of the existing Republican memes, true.  I also nevertheless celebrated and recognized Biden’s successes.  I just didn’t think based on existing facts that he could win the election, and I also doubted he had another four years in him.  I also had nothing whatever to do with making the decisions that were made.  No one was consulting me.

    Accusing those ON THE SAME SIDE AS YOU, who looked at the same situation you saw, of being gullible victims of Republicans, Trump, and the media, because they reached different conclusions than you did is counterproductive to working together.

  162. 162.

    VFX Lurker

    @schrodingers_cat:

    We could have had peace and prosperity for 4 more years but the media and their white liberal audience wanted excitement that boring old Joe Biden didn’t provide so here we are.

    Congratulations! You got all the excitement you wished for and more.

    Yup. I’m battening down the hatches here like Ben Cisco and others upthread.

    Thank you for flushing out pie-able folks I had missed. Hit dogs will holler, and boy, do they holler.

  163. 163.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @dnfree: As a straight white male, I get told “if it’s not about you, it’s not about you.” And it’s good advice.  I don’t get mad when people say that white dudes vote GOP.  By and large, they do.  I don’t, so I know I am not among the people being complained about.  s_c clearly thinks that the events of July hurt our chances.  I can’t say she’s not right.  But she certainly has every right to make her opinion on the topic clear.

  165. 165.

    dnfree

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
      Schrodinger’s cat has every right to make her opinion clear, I agree. I disagree with her imputation of motive to those who don’t agree with her, and I’m making that clear. This was a very difficult situation and the people who actually made the call had more information than either she or I do, and they didn’t agree either. It’s possible to look at the same information and draw different conclusions. I’m not at all impugning her right to conclude differently from me, and I can understand her reasons.

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