“The opposite of democracy is apathy.”
As Trump prepares to return to office, new Democratic senator @AndyKimNJ tells @DanaBashCNN “no doubt there are challenges ahead, but I can't throw up my hands.” pic.twitter.com/C73x2q6XPE
— State of the Union (@CNNSOTU) December 29, 2024
There were a few political bright spots in 2024… From NYMag, “Andy Kim Is Ready For Trump 2.0”:
… At 42, Kim is the first Korean American in the Senate and will soon be its second-youngest member. Until recently, he was best known within Washington for cleaning up the ransacked Capitol by hand after January 6. A Rhodes scholar who worked in Afghanistan as a civilian adviser to General David Petraeus and then on counterterrorism in the Obama White House, he won a House seat long held by Republicans in 2018 by focusing on protecting voters’ health care. In November, he won statewide by about ten points by promising to clean up New Jersey’s corrupt politics, four points ahead of Kamala Harris in a deep-blue state that Trump came astonishingly close to carrying. Kim was quickly cast as one of the Democrats’ few national bright spots, both a stalwart liberal and a reformer who might be able to reconnect the party with voters who have come to revile the political Establishment. “I believe a reform agenda is powerful not just in New Jersey but in this country, and I think the results of November 5 very much showed that,” Kim says. He’s watching his words as we make our way through the basement of the Dirksen Senate Office Building and past a corridor of airless temporary rooms for new senators. Kim’s own office is occupied by aides, so we squeak onto plasticky leather couches in a meeting room his staff is using for storage…
As a rookie House member in 2018, Kim says, he was “constantly stressing about how to respond to every new crisis.” Already, Democrats must figure out how to handle Trump’s Cabinet nominees, a multifront battle. Democrats have been horrified by most of Trump’s picks, but they are essentially powerless to stop confirmations unless they can persuade some of their colleagues in the GOP majority to break with their own party.
Kim is being careful not to say much about almost any of Trump’s nominees before he can interview them. (He made an exception for Matt Gaetz, whose nomination for attorney general he condemned immediately.) “I don’t want to do, like, Whac-a-Mole,” he says. “I want to come up with a framework with which I can approach all the nominations.” He’s widely expected to vote against Trump’s picks but says he is wary of the reflex to respond to Trump’s every move with resistance. “I think I’m better at triaging and recognizing that my job is not to have an opinion about every single new development in American politics,” he says.
He does have strong opinions about the lessons his party should learn; he was disappointed not to be asked for his advice in 2018, when he flipped his conservative district, or in 2020, when he kept it, but has been encouraged to see that Democratic senators who lost have been debriefing their colleagues at their weekly lunches about what went wrong. After his win, Kim says he got a phone call from Barack Obama. When he told the ex-president about the responsibility he felt given Trump’s return to power, Obama reminded him that he’d won his own Senate seat under similar circumstances. George W. Bush was reelected that night, and Democrats looked headed for generational doldrums, just two years before taking back the House and Senate and four years before electing Obama president. “He was very kind in telling me that it’s okay for me to celebrate; it’s okay for me to be proud of my personal achievement in this moment, even if there’s a broader concern in the country,” Kim says. “That should not hold me back from understanding the magnitude of what I’ve accomplished.”…
Andy Kim says he worries Jan. 6 has been ‘papered over' https://t.co/EvDlyAP7Y8
— #TuckFrump (@realTuckFrumper) December 30, 2024
Despite brutal welcome, Sarah McBride will be sworn in as the first openly trans member of Congress https://t.co/GplHe7dIkj
— The Associated Press (@AP) December 31, 2024
It was her last day in session as a Delaware state senator, and Sarah McBride sat in her tiny office at the state Capitol, preparing farewell remarks.
She had made history here, as the first openly transgender state senator in the country. Now she was making history again, recently elected as the first openly transgender member of Congress.
Her political promotion has come during a reckoning for transgender rights, when legislation in Republican-governed states around the country aims to curb their advance. During an election where a deluge of campaign ads and politicians demeaned trans people, McBride still easily won her blue state’s only seat in the U.S. House of Representatives…
“There is so much joy and so much awe in having this opportunity, and I will not let anyone take that away from me,” McBride told The Associated Press. “I am simply there to do the job just like anyone else.”
Her political home of the last four years, the Delaware Senate, is small — just 21 members — much like the state itself, not even 100 miles (155 kilometers) from north to south. That proximity creates the kind of collegiality that, while not constant, is often lacking these days in Washington…
Back down the hall, on the state Senate floor, McBride’s colleagues in the general assembly sent her off like the popular classmate at graduation. She opened the day with a prayer about “new beginnings and bittersweet endings.”
She ended with a speech of gratitude for her fellow state lawmakers.
“I take with me the hope that I have found here that despite the rancor and the toxicity that we too often see in our politics, that we do genuinely have more in common than what divides us,” McBride said.
She continued, “We can have a politics of grace and not of grandstanding, a politics of progress, not pettiness.”…
Early promise and a meteoric rise
Growing up in Wilmington, McBride was the type of child who practiced Democratic political speeches in her bedroom at a makeshift podium.
By high school, she had worked on multiple campaigns, including that of Beau Biden, the president’s late son and former Delaware attorney general.
“She combines a passion for public service with a great intellect, with extraordinary political judgment and messaging ability,” said Jack Markell, the U.S. ambassador to Italy, a former Delaware governor and McBride’s mentor.
Though she seemed destined to work in politics, McBride once felt revealing her gender identity would derail those ambitions.
She was 21 and the president of American University’s student government when she came out as transgender, first to her friends and family and later in a public post that went viral…
Sarah McBride is such a valuable voice in Congress ALREADY. 🏳️⚧️
“And let’s be clear: the party that was focused on culture wars and trans people was the Republican Party.”
“I didn’t run on identity, but my identity was NOT a secret.” pic.twitter.com/GR9vapEoFr
— Josh Sorbe (@joshsorbe) November 12, 2024
Remembering Steeplejack (aka Burt Bralliar)
Baud
Our people > their people.
Baud
Thank you, AL, for another year of tireless effort bringing us the world.
MagdaInBlack
What Baud said. Thank you for all your hard work. Happy New Year, A.L. ❤️
BellyCat
Dear DNC: Elevate all of the New Generation of Leadership and step back to see what they can and will do. Take good notes and follow suit.
Suzanne
I listened to Andy Kim’s recent interview on Pod Save America, and he is just a gem of a person. I don’t know too much about McBride — she’s gotten famous for being picked on. I hope her colleagues have her back. I hope for long and productive careers for them both.
H.E.Wolf
The final quote in the article on Rep.-elect McBride is worth reading to the end for:
“At the end of the day, our ability to have a pluralistic, diverse democracy requires some foundation of kindness and grace,” McBride said. “And I believe in that so strongly that even when it’s difficult, I will seek to summon it.”
Nukular Biskits
Good evenin’, y’all!
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Why do you hate Murka?
Seconded!
Gin & Tonic
I’m going to trigger many of the olds on here by saying we need more 42-year-old Senators. We’d do better in elections too.
Nukular Biskits
@Gin & Tonic:
First, define “olds”.
Second, you’ll get no argument from this 60-year old.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
They can do what Andy Kim did and win their primaries and the general election.
Jackie
@Baud:
Absolutely. Now democratic voters need to step up to the plate and do better.
NotMax
Can’t make it to midnight?
Enjoy the test run.
;)
Nukular Biskits
@NotMax:
This will be my approach to tonight:
https://bsky.app/profile/nukularbiskits.bsky.social/post/3lendeauups2o
satby
@Gin & Tonic: not triggering this old. I think we need capable people of integrity, age is secondary to me. I was one of the very few people who was pro-Buttigieg when he was the youngest candidate. That clip of Sarah McBride is very impressive, and I’ve always liked Andy Kim. All three of them embody what we need….
And so did Joe Biden, and the 60yo geezer Kamala Harris.
JPL
@BellyCat: This Especially on the MSM talk shows. I am still a believer that Fox is a waste of time. Pete was excellent, but did not gain one vote. imo
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: He only had that opportunity because Menendez was crookeder than a $3 bill. Senators do not retire voluntarily, unfortunately.
satby
And Happy New Year to Anne Laurie and her spousal unit! So grateful for you!
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Then they should run against a sitting senator. If youth is compelling to voters, they’ll win.
There are also more Republican seats now. All for the taking.
satby
@Baud: and the corruption will be even more evident with some of the rules changes the
griftersRepublicans are already putting in play. A lot of his fans bought the fantasy that the convict was going to “drain the swamp”, so however incoherent their beliefs are, some are potentially gettable on anti-corruption platforms.Dangerman
Damn. Boise looks like they about to get beat down. 2024 playoff games have sucked.
Torrey
@JPL:
I’d like to see a copy of the carefully constructed and administered survey you ran that brought you to that conclusion.
Baud
@satby: I hope we’ll see more action in the states. The federal government will be a black hole for a long time at this point.
Melancholy Jaques
@BellyCat:
With respect, it really is not possible for the DNC to do that.
These new faces have to promote themselves. They are Democrats and they are not “but some” Democrats, so they will have to struggle to get attention.
We each can, in our own way, spread the word to everyone we know through whatever lines of communication we are comfortable using.
Suzanne
@JPL: Pete goes on FoxNews and invigorates me. Reminds me why I’m a Democrat. Gives me a video clip to share with friends in my socials.
If he ever runs for a position in which I can vote for him, I’ll remember that.
Glory b
Funny fact, when Libs of Tik Tok wrote their piece on McBride & Mace about the Congressional bathrooms,they included photos of both.
Until corrected, most of their commenters thought Mace was the transgender one.
different-church-lady
@Baud: I think it would help if more Democrats understood winning elections is a key to getting things done.
Melancholy Jaques
@Gin & Tonic:
Are you looking to replace the ones we have or just run younger persons for the open seats?
I wouldn’t miss Bernie Sanders, but he’s from a state that could be Republican curious. Same with Shaheen in New Hampshire
Do you have any specific Aged S you’d like to replace with a 42 year old?
different-church-lady
@JPL: It amounts to nothing but entertainment now.
Suzanne
@Melancholy Jaques:
You are correct that the DNC can’t do that, but that is also an example of how the DNC is weak. A strong party would be looking to spot talent and foster budding careers. A certain amount of turnover every cycle should be encouraged. Strong organizations plan for succession.
Dan B
@Glory b: LOL! Perfect story. Thanks for sharing.
Kristine
@Baud: Adding my thanks, AL.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Political parties in the US are historically weak organizations. We’re not a corporation.
Suzanne
@Melancholy Jaques: Maybe some of our New England jackals could tell us….. are there are up-and-coming Dems in those states who could be positioned as heirs to Sanders or Shaheen? Because that’s the better way to handle it. Find younger people who want political careers and try to make it a seamless transition.
Suzanne
@Baud: That’s true, but that’s also part of why we lose.
Suburban Mom
@Gin & Tonic: I am an old, and am all for the new wave of Dems. I’m also thrilled to have the talented Andy Kim as one of my senators.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Republicans don’t push their old people out either. Look at McConnell and Grassley and Trump. They just don’t get distracted by these things.
ETA: zero percent of Dems would approve of a top down authoritarian party structure.
Urza
Not saying an 18 year old should be senator. That would imply family money and all kinds of things that are bad. But 2nd youngest senator at 42 is also not a good thing. Some late 20s and alot of 30s should be sprinkled in among the grey hairs.
Omnes Omnibus
@Urza: You need to be 30 to be a senator.
Baud
@Urza:
Minimum age is 30, I think.
Miki
@Gin & Tonic: Paraphrasing Nancy Smash: elections aren’t about rewards – they’re about the future.
Yeah – even her’s.
Suzanne
@Baud: Yeah, that’s true, but their voting base is older, by a lot.
Their party is also completely captured by Trump and is a terrible model for good governance. So perhaps….. we should not do what they do?
Baud
When Massachusetts had an open Senate seat, AOC supported old Ed Markey over young Patrick Kennedy. She understood that age isn’t the most important consideration, and she’s young. I agree with her.
CliosFanboy
@Glory b:
Libs of Tik Tok is one of those people that I look at and wonder WTF happened to them to make them such awful people. At least with TFG we know he came from an awful family.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Well, sometimes people say we should act like them and sometimes people say we shouldn’t. I don’t know, and don’t care. I value diversity, but I wouldn’t support a black Joe Manchin over a white AOC, and I take a similar approach towards age.
satby
@Baud: Monomaniacal in the pursuit of power is why they don’t.
And I wish we wouldn’t consider age as a marker for anything other than time on earth. It doesn’t automatically mean anything else, and certainly not a guarantee of liberal values.
Baud
@satby:
Is that an area we should be like them?
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: We could, of course, rebuild our entire political structure from the ground up. I do wonder if we could get it done before the next elections in the Spring of 2025.
Glory b
@BellyCat: Too many people don’t know what the DNC does, it doesn’t direct the party like the RNC does.
The DNC’s job is to run the convention and the presidential primaries.
Even if it did, it’s job isn’t to pick & choose among members. There are no participation trophies.
satby
@Baud: updated that comment, and of course not. Adjust your snark meter. Or maybe it’s my cynic meter.
Urza
@Baud: Fine but you basically never see anyone under 40, barely anyone under 50. I see what you’re saying about the party earlier, but it ‘should’ be that the party raises money and recruits people who are good politicians and campaigners. Not recruit people who are good fundraisers but not good at getting votes.
Sister Golden Bear
2024, hours to go. I wanna be sedated.
schrodingers_cat
I am going to be on a Zoom call with the state party leadership in early Jan. What do you think I should
Tell them
Ask them
They are doing a listening tour of the various Dem Town Committees by District.
Heidi Mom
@Suzanne: Same here. Every now and then, when I need a sanity pick-me-up, I watch one of those clips on YouTube. My favorite is when Pete explained to Bret Baier why he took his husband along to “a sporting event in Europe” at taxpayer expense: because he was leading a U.S. delegation to the event, the leader of the U.S. delegation was traditionally accompanied by their spouse, and the event in question was the Invictus Games! Bret’s response was “Understood.”
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
Nice.
Nukular Biskits
Stating the obvious here:
While I do think we need younger folks in BOTH the US Senate and House (as well as state legislatures), youth is no guarantee of wisdom, effectiveness, or leadership. But, then again, none of that is guaranteed by electing someone in their 60s or 70s.
I definitely would love to have someone with the energy and enthusiasm I had in my 30s … but there have been a lot of things I’ve learned since then, many which overturned my preconceptions and beliefs.
IOW, I want someone young … but with the wisdom & experience of someone twice their age. Not asking for much, am I?
SpaceUnit
Fun fact: Andy Kim had a big top 40 radio hit back in the 70’s with Rock Me Gently. He looks sorta different now.
But good for his age. Nice that he got into politics.
Suzanne
@Baud: I agree with you that we should never promote a younger candidate who sucks in other ways.
I look it more like a pro sports teams. You want a winning team this season, but also in future seasons. (One critical difference here: if we don’t win repeatedly into the future, what we work for is lost.) And there’s a certain amount of turnover every season, and even if your star is getting older and he still wants to play….. you know you need a backup or two. And you are always looking for the best new faces, every year.
But those people take a long time to get good. And politics has the addd dynamic of where that person is — like Beto O’Rourke being stuck in Texas — limiting one’s ability to have a career. So it becomes even more important to spot those promising younger people, help them win those elections for state Senator or whatever…. and then, quite frankly, encourage some of the older crew to quit while they’re ahead, before it turns into an embarrassing situation. I was very pleased by Elissa Slotkin winning Debbie Stabenow’s seat. I thought that was a great example of the generational succession that would serve us well. And it’s not like Slotkin is a kid.
satby
@Heidi Mom: My favorite was when some Fox moron asked Pete if the reason Tesla wasn’t invited to some big Transportation conference on reducing tailpipe emissions was “because Tesla wasn’t unionized?” and Pete replied, no, because electric cars don’t have tail pipes or emissions from them.
MagdaInBlack
@Sister Golden Bear: Nice =-)
Baud
@Suzanne:
That’s all fine. But the Internet complaining about all that not being good enough, and obsessing about old people in the party, is counterproductive and a distraction.
ETA: Again, we should push for diversity, but complaining that white people aren’t retiring would be just as useless.
Urza
@Nukular Biskits: Young and wise does exist, just hard to find and usually not appreciated in politics.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, we could always continue doing what we’re doing. It’s obviously working so well.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Every one with an idea can say the same thing. Not all those ideas are good ones.
Geminid
@satby: They might not be as young as Andy Kim, but new Senators Ruben Gallego (AZ) and Elissa Slotkin (MI) are 45 and 48 years old respectively.
Maryland’s new Senator, Angela Alsobrooks, is 52 years years old. Alsobrooks served two terms as the elected prosecutor for Prince William County, which has a population of almost one million people, before being elected County Executive in 2018. She won reelection in 2022.he won two terms as County Executive. Those are two very responsible jobs. To me, Alsobrooks brings an excellent combination of age and experience to the Senate.
Several of the Party’s older Senators retired this year, including Delaware’s Tom Carper (77), Michigan’s Debbie Stabenow (74) and Ben Cardin (80). Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders ran again, but hopefully they’ll be exceptions going forward.
Suzanne
@Baud: I think the time when we are out of power at every level is a perfect time to engage in organizational visioning. I hope that whomever becomes the new DNC Chair would embrace that effort.
MagdaInBlack
@SpaceUnit: 1974, to be exact. I was 16. I remember A.M. radio. WLS “The ROCK! of Chicago” beat that one to death
And yes, he sure has aged well.
Baud
@Suzanne:
DNC chair isn’t going to push anyone to retire, definitely not publicly.
hueyplong
@MagdaInBlack: Not the only station to beat that song to death.
JPL
@Baud: AOC is a gift and someday she’ll be a Senator from NYC.
Suzanne
@Geminid: Gallego is a good example of the local party talent-spotting and helping grow his career. He ran for his House seat when Ed Pastor retired. Pastor had represented that district for a really long time. But even before that, he was in the state House, and he worked for Eric Swalwell’s campaign, and he worked for a City Council member. He was encouraged by state and local party members to run for higher offices when it was clear he was a rising star.
Suzanne
@Baud: I’m fine with back-room, off-the-record pressure. Shit, that’s what political parties are made of!
RevRick
@H.E.Wolf: Grace is not a word you often hear in politics.
SpaceUnit
@MagdaInBlack:
Clean living and a positive attitude can work miracles.
Happy New Year.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Who knows what goes on behind the scenes? But DNC really has no power over Congress critters. They have their own funding committees.
MagdaInBlack
@SpaceUnit: Happy New Year to you as well !
eemom
Because I am the literal devil, I am sharing Will Bunch’s parting shot at the craven chickenshit coward who didn’t do his fucking job. Off to the fainting couch, apologists.
satby
@Suzanne: And that’s another key thing: some experience in lower levels of government is important for a candidate to have. And that takes some time too. Putting a number of candidates with that kind of experience in their late 30s, early 40s generally.
different-church-lady
@Suzanne:
Offer not available to Joe Biden.
Suzanne
@satby: At this point, I’m thinking of really anyone roughly 45 or younger as “young” for a politician. Like you said….. we need people to have some relevant experience.
Fun fact: Cisco Aguilar, who was elected as Secretary of State in Nevada in 2022….. was my student body president one year in college. Talk about long political careers.
eemom
@SpaceUnit:
I love that song, together with a lot of other soppy ass 1970s hits.
Baby I Love You is good too.
Glory b
@Suzanne: Thats not the DNC’s job.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: You may indeed be the devil.
RevRick
@Jackie: The problem in the Senate is that Democrats are clustered in fewer than half the states that are reliably Democratic. We have to fight for seats in a lot of purple battlegrounds just to get a chance of a majority. In 2026, 33 seats will be up for grabs: 13 Democrats and 20 Republicans. Of the possible vulnerable seats, four are Democrats and only two are Republicans. Eighteen seats are basically solid GOP, which means that even if Democrats sweep the table of vulnerable seats, the GOP will still be in the majority.
Geminid
@JPL: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez may get her chance in 2028, when Chuck Schumer’s term is up. Senator Schumer will be 78 years old then and may choose to retire.
But I wonder if Ocasio-Cortez would win the primary. She might be like Katie Porter, another “star” whose national fan base did not translate into statewide electability.
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez is still young though, and that won’t be her last opportunity for higher office.
Glory b
@Baud: Lots of times people forget about the existence of the DCCC and DSCC, they are the organizations people don’t realize exist.
Then they get mad at the DNC for not doing things they can’t.
SpaceUnit
@eemom:
I was really young but I remember radio stations playing Led Zeppelin and then The Carpenters.
Kinda weird to think about it now.
JPL
@satby: haha I missed that so thanks.
Pete is great and I would gladly vote for him if I can. Earlier my comment was meant that Fox viewerships are fixed and won’t change. Suzanne mentioned sharing with others and that might help get out the vote.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
I shall taunt you with Soft Cell tunes when you arrive in hell. 😈
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: I don’t object to Soft Cell. I object to people confusing Soft Cell and The Clash.
JPL
@Geminid: Before trump, my brother was as right wing as you come and now he mentioned how good she was. He lives in TX so can’t vote for her but she does have appeal.
btw My brother is hoping to move to GA, next year and Ossoff can use another vote.
TBone
Dorothy Parker telegram to Robert Benchley, December 31, 1929:
“YOU COME RIGHT OVER HERE AND EXPLAIN WHY THEY ARE HAVING ANOTHER YEAR.”
Baud
@TBone:
Sounds so modern.
Glory b
@JPL: AOC has never gotten a bill out of committee, knew so little about Congress that she thought she’d inherit her predecessor’s senior committee positions, joined a Sunshine Dem sit in blocking Pelosi’s office her first day in DC, traveled with Bernie to primary campaigns before she won her General election, tried to primary her fellow members, like Hakeem Jeffries & Shontell Brown, refused to donate to the DCCC election fund, said she’s not REALLY a Democrat but feels like she’s actually a socialist,
And then expects the party to back her.
TBone
@Baud: indeed (1929 musta really sucked).
Because I won’t be awake to ring in anything, my last public thought for this year has to do with BOHICA.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud: Nothing to do, nowhere to go.
But I did put on my formal jammies, in honor of the occasion.
JPL
@Glory b: She has also grown and matured and that was over a short time. I don’t think that the party moves forward unless they embrace young democratic members.
WaterGirl
@Glory b: Curious about the timing of the things you mentioned. It seems like most or all of that occurred either while she was running or shortly after she was won the seat the first time.
Is that the case, or am I wrong about timing?
Because if all of that was when she was terribly green, I’m willing to cut her some slack.
WaterGirl
Looks like JPL and I were typing our comments at the same time!
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
Who in Hell’s name does that?!?
RevRick
@Baud: The scary thing the GOP is proposing is that voters will have to provide proof of citizenship to vote, and, surprise, surprise that will impact Democratic voters more.
Who would be affected?
People who don’t drive. When I went to get my Real ID license, I discovered, much to my chagrin that I had lost my Social Security card somewhere along the line, so I had to apply for a replacement. Then when I went the second time, they rejected me again, because my original birth certificate had a damaged crease, so I had to get a replacement for that, too, and it cost $50, because that’s now handled by a private third party.
This requirement may exclude huge numbers of urban voters.
This requirement may exclude married women who don’t drive and have taken their husband’s last name.
Like Orban in Hungary and like the Jim Crow South the GOP is aiming to shrink the electorate in their favor.
Baud
@JPL:
@WaterGirl:
Agree. I think she’s grown a lot over the last couple of years. Even with her recent loss in getting the committee chair, she handled with grace, although a lot of her fans didn’t IMHO.
Suzanne
@Glory b: The DNC’s job is strategy. We need one.
KatKapCC
@Glory b: As others have noted, the AOC of her early days is not the AOC of today.
And if we’re going to hang people’s past foibles around their necks like political albatrosses, I got some interesting news for you about…well, probably almost every Democrat.
RevRick
@Glory b: What? No love for the DLCC?
Madeleine
Joining others to wish you a happy New Year, Ann Laurie, and to thank you for your always valuable and well considered posts.
TBone
@Suzanne: we need plural.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Lauren Underwood is an unsung hero, despite her legislative accomplishments and actually flipping a red seat. But AOC is the media darling and a liberal fave despite not voting for key Biden legislative initiatives and backing Nina Turner and other DSA primary contestants. She also made the Defund the Police slogan really popular.
Go figure.
Baud
@RevRick:
They’ll do it if they can get away with it.
Nukular Biskits
@Urza:
Not in my line of work. LOL.
Geminid
@JPL: My friend Joan is a big fan of Representative Ocasio-Cortez. We were talking about her yesterday and I remarked that the NY14 Representative has almost grown into the politician people thought she already was when she entered Congress.
Joan was somewhat taken aback. I explained that I had followed most of Ocasio-Cortez’s fellow Class of 2018 members tbrough their elections that year, in particular the 40 who flipped Republican seats, and that I thought many were as or more talented and capable as she was.
Glory b
@KatKapCC: Two years ago, it was pointed out that Matt Gaetz voted with the Democrats more often than she did.
JPL
@Geminid: That might be true, but because the maga’s decided to attack her, she is the one that received more attention. That is what counts.
Do you know if she changed her staff, because she is always more that prepared?
Baud
@Glory b:
I’d need to see confirmation of that. Even Joe Manchin voted with Dems more than the best Republican. Even if AOC was the worst on voting with the party, it’s hard to believe that she was worse than any Republican.
KatKapCC
@Glory b: On which topics would Gaetz have sided with Democrats where AOC did not? Receipts for such a claim would be helpful.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
k, in that case you will listen for all eternity to the dance mixes from the early 1980s that created that confusion in my clueless, alcohol addled collegiate brain, which persisted unto middle age.
#hatethesinlovethesinner
RevRick
@Suzanne: The Democratic Party organizations are basically funnels for money to candidates. They can encourage up and comers, but they operate under the rule that they won’t support someone primarying an incumbent Democrat.
Basically, the party lacks the power today to dictate who runs when it adopted the rules post 1968 that made primaries the way to select candidates. Nowadays, candidates self nominate.
When I was a kid growing up in Connecticut, John Bailey basically set the ticket for statewide and federal offices. There are no John Baileys anymore.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez was three years into her Congressional career when she voted against the Infrastructure bill. I wasn’t bothered by that vote per se; as far far I was concerned that was between her and her constituents. But she publically trashed that bill before and after it passed, and I thought her misreprentations concerning it did damage to Biden and the Party.
JPL
@eemom: Should I hang my head in shame because I like 80’s rock? ABBA is okay with me.
RevRick
@Baud: The potential saving grace is the narrowness of the GOP margins in the House and Senate. They would have to blow up the filibuster and Republicans in Biden or Harris districts would come under immense pressure to think twice.
Glory b
@Geminid: Ive always thought that those who flipped Republican seats are the ones to pay attention to.
AOC and Bernie together couldn’t get 100 people to attend a rally for Jamaal Bowman in her own back yard. I don’t think she has the level of appeal people think she does & I don’t think she could win a statewide election.
FFS, she should pass ONE bill out of committee first.
Baud
@Geminid:
Geminid
@JPL: I’m not sure what you mean here, but I know Rep. Ocasio-Cortez cut her first chief of staff and press secretary loose 8 months into her first term, in August of 2019. That was after they exacerbated the rancorous party blow-up over emergency border funding.
JPL
@Geminid: She didn’t hurt the party, the structure of the party hurt it. Right now they are more concerned about getting air time, than promoting one single message.
Rep Khanna is someone who is more concerned about playing nice with the other party while they hold a book of matches. That is not going to win votes for him or the party. Truthfully there is no reason to watch Sunday talk shows if that is the best they can do.
omg is that what playing by the rules mean?
JPL
@Geminid: Simply mean she appears to be prepared and that often comes with the aides you hire.
RevRick
@Geminid: In a way, her trashing the Infrastructure Bill made it easier to snooker McConnell, who tied his support for it and the CHIPS Act to tanking the rest of the Build Back Better agenda. She and the other Progressives wanted guarantees that the Infrastructure Bill wouldn’t mean abandoning Build Back Better.
Baud
@JPL:
She probably has her pick of top aides. But she’s also hard working and talented.
NotMax
@TBone
Batten down. Supposed to be major winds in your neck of the woods tomorrow.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Forget it Glory b, it is Balloon Juice. Being an influencer carries more weight in America than getting the job done. Ask Biden or Lauren Underwood.
Montanareddog
@different-church-lady: people who confuse “Should I stay or should I go” with “Say hello, wave goodbye”?
But you pose a good question. Perhaps there is a backstory which Omnes can explain.
Glory b
Eolirin
@Suzanne: We don’t even know what kind of strategy we need to be focused on yet. All we can speculate about in terms of electoral politics right now is how to fight the last war.
And honestly, we may not even need to be that worried about that. Trump won’t be on the ticket ever again, and there’s no clear successor with his level of ability to drive turnout. Without Trump on the ballot, and running good candidates, we may go from narrow losses to narrow wins again just staying the course.
But that’s all assuming they don’t use the next four years to well and properly rig the system. It’s assuming there isn’t something going very wrong with PA that’s going to leave it like Ohio, and force us to break the antidemocratic rigging in GA and NC in order to have a chance at the EC math.
And we’re just fucked on the Senate.
In any event, I don’t think candidate age is all that meaningful, electorally. No one’s winning or losing because of age. It’s all party affiliation and vibes. Like, people aren’t wrong when they say that our politics are too dominated by old people, but they’re never using that as a reason to support younger candidates, they’re using it as a justification for why they’re tuning out. And then most of them just move on to the next thing if there’s a younger candidate. Too many people don’t want to be engaged. Civic responsibility isn’t a strong enough cultural force.
And yes, it’d be better for our political outcomes if there was more diversity, and age is part of that, but only if the Republicans were also out of power entirely. We don’t need more Matt Gaetzs or Madison Cawthorns.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, but hope springs eternal I guess.
Can you see the Republican commercials playing the video of her saying she’s REALLY a socialist, not a Democrat?
They would write themselves.
NotMax
@Montanareddog
A cue for Jimmy D. if ever I read one.
:)
Starfish (she/her)
@Glory b: I am old enough to remember her coming to be the featured speaker at the fundraising dinner for our local Democratic party.
Suzanne
@RevRick:
I know. I would argue that this can be harmful. This promotes inertia.
eemom
@JPL:
Au contraire, you are preaching to the, um, choir. I’m as unabashed a fan of ABBA as I am of Andy Kim.
Winner Takes It All….omg, swoon….
Eolirin
@Suzanne: There’s no way to get rid of that rule and maintain the ability to keep fundraising operations going which is what members spend most of their time doing. People facing primary challenges with backing from money they helped to raise
Unless that member did something really bad to the point that the party is willing to toss them overboard, it’s hard to see anyone supporting that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Eolirin:
It was only two years ago that Shaprio and Fetterman were elected, Shapiro with a healthy margin, who is still very popular
Baud
@Eolirin:
Also no way for the party to decide which primary challengers to fund, without tearing the party apart.
Eolirin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Bob Casey losing is concerning.
We need a few more data points to know if the Trump factor was determinative there, or if it was 2018 and 2022 that were the flukes.
Geminid
@RevRick: The CHIPS bill was passed eight months after the Infrastructure bill. Ocasio-Cortez’s and the five other “Squad” members’ votes against the Infrastructure bill had no bearing whatsoever on passage of the CHIPS bill.
The six Squad members objected to the decoupling of the Infrastructure bill from the Build Back Better bill. It was a tactical decision by Biden and Congressional leaders to couple them in the first place. When they decided to decouple them, many Progressive Caucus members resisted.
Eventually all but six came around. Like I said above, the votes against were between those six and their constituents. But the Infrastructure was good legislatuon in its own right.
Ocasio-Cortez and some– not all- of the other six squad members decided to justify their votes by persuading people that the Infrastructure bill was in fact a bad bill. I thought they did damage then and I hold them responsible for it now.
Eolirin
@RevRick: On the other hand, there is no actual check on the power of a lawless executive, if that executive has sufficiently consolidated it’s power.
They don’t necessarily need to pass a bill. They can also just use the lack of such a bill as justification to ignore voting outcomes they don’t like. Not too dissimilar from the fake electors scheme.
Suzanne
@Eolirin:
This is true. I have long thought, though, that we don’t use the kind of everything-is-now-national nature of politics to our advantage, though. Like…. I want to vote for Andy Kim, and Ruben Gallego, and Elissa Slotkin. Quite frankly, I’m real meh on my own Democratic Senator. I donate money to Democrats in red states, and that ends up being money utterly wasted, much of the time.
But when you’re real meh on your own Senator — but the party needs your vote anyway — appealing to the strength of the others on the team is a good way to do this.
I say this as someone who repeated, over and over to herself as she cast a vote for Senator Kyrsten Sinema….”Minority. Leader. McConnell.”
zhena gogolia
@H.E.Wolf: Wow, that’s great.
Happy New Year, everybody, especially AL!
RevRick
@Geminid: When Biden and Manchin announced the Inflation Reduction Act, reintroducing parts of Build Back Better, nobody howled louder about being betrayed than McConnell. He thought he had a deal that he and enough GOP Senators would vote for both the Infrastructure and CHIPS acts in exchange for killing Build Back Better and what convinced him was the opposition of Progressives to the Infrastructure Bill and their protests of being sold out. They were the political foil that President Biden needed to pull off this bait and switch.
Glory b
@Starfish (she/her): OKay, im sure she’s done something like that several times.
I’m not sure what the point is.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: I don’t see her winning a senate seat in NY either.
Suzanne
I will also note that, as much as we may hate this…. these elections are literally popularity contests. Being good at imagecraft is a political skill. Trump just kicked our asses because he’s really good at it. It’s literally the only thing he’s good at.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: It feels like most of the electorate doesn’t know who their senator even is.
Another Scott
@Gin & Tonic: … except for Jim Webb.
;-)
Best wishes,
Scott.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: So was Harris. If it was just that we wouldn’t have lost.
We really need to stop letting the electorate off the hook. People are making bad choices. They keep making bad choices. Those choices have really awful consequences that people really don’t like. But they keep doing it. And we keep acting like only the Democratic political leadership has any agency with regard to this.
When this is mostly a cultural problem that we need to fix as a society. And that starts with not accepting bullshit like, I don’t like how old everyone is, so I’m not going to vote. Or any of the millions of ways that manifests. Especially the I’m not racist, then says a bunch of racist shit variants. (I don’t mean to suggest you’re engaging in that. I know you’re not.)
If we can’t find some way of getting people back to a common reality and one in which we share values that don’t result in horrific outcomes, we’re going to keep having horrific outcomes.
RevRick
@Baud: There’s an organization that uses a tool D-Nominate that has analyzed Congressional votes over many decades. We are now in an era of extreme polarization so that the most conservative Democrat Senator, Joe Manchin, was closer to Bernie Sanders than he was to all but a couple GOP ones.
The same holds true in the House.
Back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s there was considerable overlap.
Suzanne
@Eolirin: Sure. You’re right. But I would argue that that’s why you build up your rising stars. Secretary Pete gets this. Going on Fox doesn’t change Republican votes to Democratic votes, but it probably helps other Democrats.
Has bemoaning the fact that people aren’t more civic-minded been effective? (I mean, it is true, but there’s lots of true things that still don’t move needles. Life and politics are unfair.) I would argue that we would do better to master the current communication and media landscape.
Glory b
@Suzanne: No, Trump kicked our asses because so many Americans refused to vote for the black lady.
This is about race.
In 2016, Trump was 12 or 13 out of 17 Republican primary candidates. Days after he came down the escalator and called Mexicans a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, he shot to number one and has stayed there since then.
Don’t get it twisted.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus:
spring of 2025January 7, 2025.;-)
Best wishes,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
@Glory b:
Sexism too – the dumb motherfuckers.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Yep.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Eolirin:
Do you have any thoughts on Martin’s theories that the Dems and Harris should have been more anti-corporatist? I recall him using John Deere and it’s awful repair policies that pissed off rural white farmers as example where Dems could have made inroads to them. He also speculated that the seemingly widespread dislike for the murdered United Healthcare CEO was another example of this anti-corporatist sentiment that could be tapped into
Suzanne
@Eolirin:
This is absolutely true, but it doesn’t ultimately change that we have to do the work of persuasion. It doesn’t matter if our policy and candidates are better if we can’t make enough people believe that. I also object to the framing that “we’re acting like only the Dems have agency”. We’re acting like the Dems are the only side over which we have even the slightest bit of influence. That’s not the same thing. We want to win, we’re trying to win.
I also don’t think Harris was great at imagecraft. She’s perfectly competent at it. She’s good at it in the way that most professional women are good at it. But Trump is, like, preternaturally good at it. On the day he got shot (or whatever)…. and he stood up with blood on his face and his fist raised, against that bright blue sky…. I turned to Mr. Suzanne and said, “That’s it, it’s over, he just won the election”. That shit at McDonald’s was shameless pandering and totally effective. We underestimate how good he is at this, because he’s so terrible at everything else.
Geminid
@RevRick: That simply is not so. The votes against by the six Squad members against the Infrastructure bill were not part of some strategy either by intent or in effect.
McConnell would have acted no differently if those six Squad members had voted for the Infrastructure bill. He would have allowed the vote on the CHIPS bill in July of 2021 either way.
What fooled McConnel was Manchin telling reporters in June that the clean energy portion of BBB was dead. Then, the evening after the CHIPS bill passed with Republican support, Manchin and Schumer sprung their surprise. Ocasio-Cortez’s only contribution to the passage of the IRA was her vote for it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
How? It was clear as day he wasn’t doing a real shift there. It was BS theatre. Where’s your evidence that this specifically was effective?
Matt McIrvin
@RevRick: That’s a stiff poll tax. I had to get a replacement birth certificate to get my passport renewed and it was expensive and slow. Most people wouldn’t bother.
Glory b
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): People know what our message is, what we stand for and what our policy positions are.
They like them, which is why they are mostly successful when presented as ballot measures, when disassociated from the party, they are popular.
They won’t vote for the party with the black people in it.
Suzanne
@Glory b:
As someone who watched a horrifying number of those 2016 primary debates, there’s another vibe at play, too. Over the course of those debates, he absolutely humiliated every one of his opponents. Taunted Jeb Bush’s family, gave Marco Rubio demeaning nicknames, insulted Ted Cruz, called Carly Fiorina ugly, bragged about the size of his dick.
I also remember one of the questions was something like, “Are you angry about the state of the country?”. And Kasich and the others gave some total coached, gross, politician-y answer just oozing with insincerity about “happy warriors”. And then they get to Trump, and he says something like, “I’m so angry! I’m proud to wear the mantle of ANGER.” And I knew, at that moment, that he would win.
All those other Republicans are white patriarchs, too, and they all lost. Trump is better at politics than all of the rest of them.
Geminid
@Baud: This meme of Erdogan and Putin has been around for a while now and has come up again in connection to Syria.
Not surprisingly the link does not work. The meme shows Erdogan in a fez, tricking Putin with an ice cream that he keeps pulling away. Russia and Turkiye have been at odds in Syria since 2013 and Erdogan got got the upper hand this month.
Jackie
@Gin & Tonic:
Late to the thread, but this going on 70 yrs agrees. We Dems need to leave stodginess to the GQP and MAGAts.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: I’m not bemoaning it, I’m identifying it as the primary failure point.
If it can’t be fixed, and it’s a nasty generational collective action problem, so it may not be able to be, I don’t think we survive much longer as a society, and probably not as a species.
The current media and communication paradigms are heavily biased against Democratic values in really intractable ways.
Pete Buttigiege being an amazingly effective communicator and going on fox and shutting down bad arguments also doesn’t seem to have moved things enough for us to be able to win. I think because most people aren’t even watching Fox. Or anything. When he does that, unless it goes viral, and even then it’s mostly hitting political junkies, only the people who saw it live are going to have seen it, and they’re not going to hear about it, it’s not going to get repeated over and over. While their talking points do. So it doesn’t penetrate.
It ends up being all vibes all the way down and we don’t control the media channels, they do. They can shape exposure in a way that’s literally impossible for us, and in ways our base and voters wouldn’t even respond to. We are going to be stuck going from crisis to crisis, and having control, to the extent that our electoral processes still work, flip back and forth depending on who is in power when something that can punch through that general ignorance into awareness happens. Like gas, food, or housing prices rising sharply.
And the right will continue to sabotage all efforts to resolve a crisis.
Without effective all levels of society engagement on the part of people who are willing to fight for better outcomes, and without a willingness, when we do seize power, to do the things that have had to been done in the past to shut down propaganda dissemination, we can’t beat that. Not for long anyway.
If there’s one area to push democratic politicians, it’s on breaking social media’s back through really aggressive data privacy laws and making it harder to lie in a political context while having the trappings of a news organization. And also going after the oligarchs who maintain the right wing infrastructure. These are all, at their core, anti corruption measures. But I’m not sure the electorate is at a point where they’d accept them.
And they can’t even make the attempt without winning again, so they have be able to win without being able to properly fix the reason why they’ve been losing to someone like Trump.
Or we have to hope that the system can survive four more years of this and that Trump was a unicorn that can’t easily be replicated and we just go back to winning because Republicans are kind of skeevy to just enough people, and have their own coalition problems, that we win when they don’t have an energizing standard bearer that can turn out low propensity voters and hold them all together.
I am not optimistic.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That stupid picture of him standing at the drive-thru window went viral, then they turned it into a meme about “making the milkshake machine great again!” or something and it got something like hundreds of thousands of likes and shares, which means tens of millions of views. Basically for free. Like, we donate heaps of money for ads and direct mail and we’re lucky to have a fraction of that reach.
See, everyone here is mostly rational, and they read and look things up. That’s, like, not most people.
Eolirin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I don’t think Democrats can effectively shape awareness of a message regardless of what they try to say, because it’ll get twisted by the media.
They’ll be painted as dangerous anti capitalist extremists and it may backfire horrifically.
But maybe it’s the kind of thing that would break through. Thing is, they’d have to take a position very very close to being pro-Luigi. A sort of, yeah if the law and the courts aren’t willing and able to protect people, murdering CEOs is all we’re going to have left. We’d rather be able to do this legislatively, but… *throws up hands*.
That’s a risky place to be standing even just in terms of reducing society into a meaner more violent place. Democrats aren’t constitutionally comfortable with that.
Suzanne
@Eolirin: I agree with almost everything you say. I do think Secretary Pete is effective, but I think there is a limit to what he can do, what any of them can do.
On this:
This is absolutely true, and I wish we could accept it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
You don’t have to be particularly well-read or politically-savvy to see through that kind of bullshit. It was plain as day to me and I work retail. It was phony. He’s a rich grifter that has fucked working people over much of his life, including while he’s been president. Besides, how many of those likes were bots?
Another Scott
@Suzanne: I remember seeing a “BETO” sign in my neighborhood in NoVA the first time he was making a splash running against Ted for the US senate in 2018. I thought it was a little weird and I’m not sure it had any impact on anything at all.
We’re a big country. We need lots of messages and lots of messengers because we have lots and lots of kinds of voters.
As Kos said long ago, we need more and better Democrats, and I think the important word there is “more”. Having a large enough majority makes all kinds of things possible (like not holding good policy hostage to Lieberman or Manchin or Sinema). That’s why I get uncomfortable at the circular firing squad stuff. When we’ve got enough votes to spare, we can beat up on our own. I’m, generally, not going to beat up on our 75+ year olds as long as they’re doing the job. They aren’t the problem, IMO. Their votes are as good as any 42 year old.
I’m going to, instead, try to support folks who are working to throw the folks in the other party out of office. If that means running a young BETO against Moscow Mitch or Cancun Ted, then great! If it means something else, then great! “Just win baby!”
Sure, we should have the ability to argue about things in primary campaigns, but as long as the monsters are running the other party, then we ultimately need to come together to effectively fight them.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: I’m drawing a distinction between us as Democratic voters, politically active and engaged people, and the party leadership and our elected officials.
If we’re talking about persuasion and messaging and looking at what our politicians can be doing better, we’re failing to look at how we, as actual people, can persuade and how this doesn’t work if we have to go through politicians saying things on various media platforms where they’ll be buried or distorted.
The work that needs to be done can’t succeed if it’s only done at that level. We also can’t actually effect how other people message.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I actually used to do that exact job — the McDonald’s drive-thru window — and I also see that it’s cosplay. But it grabs attention, and attention is currency. Trump won the votes of people in the McDonald’s-employee income strata. We hate it, but his schtick worked on a lot of people.
ETA: John Fetterman also cosplays as a slob and people ate that up.
glory b
@Suzanne: No.
Remember the infamous Lee Atwater “n word” speech? He said that you could win saying “n word, n word, n word” in the past. But you couldn’t say that anymore, it was offensive.
So instead, you said “states’ rights,” and ‘forced busing,” and tax cuts.”
And the theme people could understand was that everything you talk about ultimately hurt black people.
But more recently, lots of what is now the Republican base couldn’t understand the subtlety and didn’t vote.
Rachel Maddow noted that during the 2016 Republican primary, they experienced a huge increase in new voters registering as Republicans, many more than the Democrats and almost all in rural and exurban areas.
It was because Trump said the quiet part out loud and they heard him loud and clear. He is the embodiment of their hatred. Their loyalty is to him, not the party. They vote for other Republicans because he needs minions in DC to make his hatreds become policy.
The other Republicans felt the same way in their hearts. Trump was the only one who said it out loud so they could understand it. This is why he really does love the poorly educated.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
Race and misogyny, as glory b noted above, was also a factor I suspect
Eolirin
@Suzanne: We have a really serious toxic masculinity problem in this country. The racism is an outgrowth of it even. It’s pandering to that.
When you couple it with an intense cultural current of willful ignorance, we end up in very very bad places.
Suzanne
@Another Scott:
See, this is where I have a point of disagreement. I don’t think showing up and voting in the Senate is really “doing the job”. I think there’s much, much more to the job, and building popularity and political capital and commanding attention is an important part of it. So it’s not about “beating up” on anybody, but it is a recognition that calm and orderly succession is better for the whole team.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
They always are.
But, again….. there is no shortage of racist, sexist assholes in the Republican Party. They have a whole buffet to choose from!
Torrey
@Geminid:
A quick correction, if I may: Angela Alsobrooks was State’s Attorney and then County Executive of Prince George’s County, MD. To find Prince William County, you’ll have to cross the river and visit Maryland’s sister state to the south, Virginia, which, curiously enough, has both a Prince William and a King William county.
@Suzanne:
I’d add that Pete going on Fox makes him familiar; viewers may not immediately switch votes, but they can see that he’s not a monster and that he is smart and gives good answers. That can be important if he goes for higher office, or even just as he explains what his office is doing, as he has been for the past few years. To take another example, before the 2008 election Obama bought 30 minutes of airtime on the major networks to explain his ideas and policies. It appears that his doing that gave enough of the electorate enough familiarity with him that they no longer saw him as a scary liberal or a scary Black man or even necessarily an unknown quantity. Familiarity matters, and Buttigieg is wise to cultivate it with Fox viewers.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
It’s always hysterical that one of our resident Libertarians in a Trench Coat (also the lead singer in the Always Wrong Chorus) spends literally years claiming how they don’t identify as a Democrat suddenly decides to identify as one…tonight.
Tomorrow, it’ll be back to the usual “new liberal” BS as usual.
NotMax
@Suzasnne
Not attributable solely to one factor. It was a perfect storm of -isms of the basest ilk.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): My point is that Trump beat a whole party of racists and sexists for the nomination. It’s worth thinking about what special sauce he has that the others do not.
Hint: coming from the world of TV, he is a better performer than any of the people who came up through law school and elected office. He’s better at crafting an image.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
I see what you’re saying, but I think you seem to be downplaying those factors wrt to the election results
Suzanne
@NotMax: Nothing’s only one factor, of course.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Who exactly is the Always Wrong Chorus?
glory b
@Suzanne: Then what good is a democrat who commands attention and political capital and goes on to vote against the party’s bills? As I recall, Cori Bush got attention and voted against every Democratic proposal. We did better with several Republicans.
Attention and political capital are means to an end, not an end in and of themselves.
Some of the influencer politicians don’t seem to realize that.
As I mentioned before, AOC and Bernie struggled to get 100 people to go to a rally during a warm day in June. I think this may not be the path to success many think it is.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Being racist and sexist is table stakes for the GOP. Trump is more gross about it, in an age in which being really gross has a thirsty audience.
glory b
@Suzanne: He said the quiet part out loud.
That’s it.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: Trump, because there is just a gaping needy void where a worldview or soul should be, is able to come across as authentic no matter what he says, and is willing to be absolutely and shamelessly brazen in what he’s willing to say.
These things are heavily rewarded in this country no matter how destructive they are. I think it’s really that simple.
Harris came across as authentic too, but is definitely more polite and pro status quo in her expression. If she had been a white man she might have won (and would have had more room to be more radical in expression, which people would very likely have responded to better. You don’t get to do those things as a woman or member of a minority). If there had been no post pandemic discolations she might have won too. If Americans had longer memories or paid more attention to how things work, she definitely would have won.
BellyCat
Problem #1
Suzanne
@glory b: I agree with you: they need to vote the right way or serve in their office well as well. And I agree that Cori Bush didn’t help us. Again, I think Pete’s the better example here…. there’s no inherent conflict between getting yourself out there and serving well.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Chuck Schumer is 74. He and 82 year old POTUS Joe got amazing things done with razor thin majorities. They weren’t just sitting around waiting to collect their pensions.
I understand your point about vibes and making voters feel enthusiastic about voting for people closer to their age. Sure, it’s great and it’s always been a component of political campaigns. … We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans … etc., etc. (That’s also the speech which – in the next sentence – says that we “shall pay any price” which didn’t work out so well in Vietnam…)
Anyway.
Yes, we have to figure out ways to get enough people to vote for enough Democrats to have a large enough majority to get good things done. Yes, vibes and memes matter. But I think we have to understand and internalize that: the election was close; that we’re a big complicated country; that too many people are too invested in their brilliant observations being accepted as the reason why things turned out the way they did; and that changes are going to have to be incremental to be lasting; that people who do elected politics (as opposed to campaign operatives) want to win and usually have a pretty good idea of the various trade-offs of various campaign approaches. And that elections without Donnie are going to be different than elections with him.
Age made no difference to Donnie’s voters. He activated his tribe to turn out and vote for him better than Harris did, for whatever reasons. It’s hard to imagine that the result would have been different if Harris had been 18 years younger.
My $0.02.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Eolirin:
There was a good episode of Know Your Enemy recently in which they discussed how women have come up through organizations and institutions in recent years, including government. And the issue that presents is that, when people lose faith in institutions, those women are hurt by that association.
They go on about things like HR, and following rules, and harmonious behavior, and even things like handwashing….. all these pro-social behaviors end up coded as female. But people hate HR, and people hate rules.
So: women….. in a real Kobayashi Maru situation here,
Suzanne
@Another Scott: I mostly agree. I think Harris saved us from a bloodbath, though. And again, it’s not just about this next cycle, it’s about building a team that can win the next ten elections.
When I moved to PA, my rep was Mike Doyle. Perfectly fine longtime Dem. I had no objections to voting for him. But…. I was thrilled to vote the following cycle for Summer Lee. I hope she has a long career and she climbs as high on the career ladder as she wishes.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: I think Underwood and AOC are both valuable but in different ways. Underwood does solid legislating. AOC is prepared and effective in hearings and knows how to explain things to people who aren’t paying much attention and creating viral moments that get our message out. Both styles are valuable and we need both
Gretchen
@Geminid: My representative, Sharice Davids, is one of the class of 2018 who flipped a red seat in Kansas. She’s as talented as others but the skills required here to keep a purple seat are different than representing Brooklyn. She’s spends a lot of time in the district on veterans and business interests and doesn’t call much attention to being a Democrat. Different skills for different districts.
Gretchen
Successful companies need both the engineers who design the product and the salespeople who call attention to it and sell it. Underwood and Davids are the engineers. AOC is the salesperson. We need both to get our product across the finish line.
NotMax
@Gretchen
Parts of The Bronx and a slice of Queens, not Brooklyn.
But I agree with your point. What attracts constituents in her very urban, very multi-cultural district, IMHO, won’t translate to support upstate in places like Albany, Utica, Plattsburgh, etc. (not to mention closer to home, for example Staten Island) should she opt for a senatorial run.
Geminid
@Torrey: Thanks you for the correction. Something didn’t seem right about Prince William. I was scratching my head wondering whether it needed the possessive on the end.
Aussie Sheila
@Gin & Tonic:
Late to the party, but I second the remark about 40 somethings in the Senate. It’s a perfect age for such a position, assuming a good decade in State politics. Why oh why is it so hard for the only political formation remotely to the left of Salazar, Franco or Orban that exists in the US, to encourage, nurture and ensure young and vigorous candidates for elected positions across the board.
There is something wrong with your political pipes.
They need clearing.
TBone
@NotMax: HNY !
So far, 2025 has come like a lamb, mild and still. But we are ready for strong headwinds to roar later today. Hope your “first” day is everything you want it to be!
Kay
Is rejecting the Left side of the party “unity”? How is that any more unifying than when Lefties reject the middle or Right side of the Party? Isn’t it just an ideological preference ?
Kay
If Democrats in swing districts have to lean Right and keep their heads down to mollify moderates then wouldn’t it stand to reason that Dems in liberal districts have to lean Left and advocate liberal positions? Why is acting on the wishes of voters ok when those voters are centrists but not ok when those voters are liberals? Isn’t that just taking liberal districts and voters for granted? No one has to appeal to them because they have no choice – they can’t vote for Republicans?
This is exactly what the Left side of the Party says, btw, and as far as I can tell, its a legit beef.
Chris T.
@Suzanne:
The funny / sad thing is, had it been Biden or Harris at the drive-thru window, it would have backfired.
Kay
Republicans in conservative districts are very far Right – out and proud with it. That keeps their very Right wing constituents happy. Shouldn’t Democrats in very liberal districts be very liberal, and advocate on behalf of THEIR voters, or are the only voters that matter centrists or Right leaning?
Kay
I’m on the Left side of the Democratic Party. But I live in a 25% D county in a red state so I accept and welcome my fellow Democrats who are very Right leaning. I supported Marcy Kaptur as a rep back when she was loudly anti abortion. But if I lived in AOC”s district and was on the right side of the Party I would expect an advocate for the Left side of the Party. I think both the Left side of the Party and the Right side are valid and both are permitted to act on the wishes of their constituents.
Betty
Before we throw out the baby with the bathwater, remember the good work the “old lady” Elizabeth Warren continues to do. We know who the fossils are, but how to get them to recognize it is time to move on is the challenge.
Geminid
@Betty: I look at Elizabeth Warren a little differently than Tom Carper who retired this year at age 77. Warren got involved in elective politics relatively late in life, and she brought a lot to the table. Warren wanted to serve a third term, her constituents wanted her to, and I see no problem there.
On the other hand I want my Senator, Mark Warner to retire in 2028 instead of seeking a fourth term. He’s younger than Senator Warren, and his politics are a little closer to mine than Warren’s, not that I see many important differences between the two. But there are other capable Democrats here that can take his place and bring fresher knowledge and experience to the Senate.
I feel the same way about Tim Kaine for 2030, but I’m pretty sure Senator Kaine will retire then. He wasn’t certain to run last time, and I don’t think Kaine is embedded in the D.C. political culture like Warner is.
schrodingers_cat
One minor data point for those who want AOC to run for Senate and then the President: Trump increased his vote share in her district significantly from 2020.
So her politics and Biden bashing turned her constituents against our Presidential candidate. She has not been a team player.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: I’ve mentioned before that Gerry Connolly got around 125,000 more votes than AOC did in their races in November. Both won by around 2:1. Both districts have around the same total population. Pragmatically, unless there are very weird differences in the demographics of the two districts (e.g. many fewer people under 18 in AOCs), Gerry was much better at getting voters to turn out than AOC was in their own districts.
Most elected politicians are pragmatists at heart when it comes to elections. Most of all, above all else, they want to win. If that means that Gerry shows up at every Irish/Scottish festival in Old Town Alexandria, if that means AOC plays games on Twitch, that’s what they’ll do. They have found a formula that works for them. It doesn’t mean that whatever personal brand of political mojo they have will be appealing to other elected Democrats. Those folks aren’t going to jump on some new thing if they don’t see a benefit to it. Appeals to put the oldsters on ice floes may get lots of memes and clicks, but it’s not enough to convince people who have a visceral stake in winning elections.
tl;dr – The new folks have to show that what they are proposing works in the real world and convince their colleagues (and/or enough voters). It was ever thus.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.