lol
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 3:03 PM
Rolling Stone is on it — “The DOJ’s Epstein Memo Is Tearing the Trump Administration Apart”;
… The Department of Justice announced in a memo on Sunday that Jeffrey Epstein had indeed killed himself, that his potentially explosive “client list” doesn’t exist, and that the administration is effectively closing its case on the convicted sex offender, whose 2019 death in prison has been a lightning rod for conspiracy theorists — especially those who supported Trump, never mind the president’s own connections to Epstein.
Rolling Stone reported that the Trump administration was bracing for a MAGA revolt over its nothing to see here-style memo. MAGA revolted as expected, with scores of prominent right-wing influencers expressing outrage over the memo. Many are calling for Attorney General Pam Bondi to be fired, and some even seem to be souring on the president. “Trump has become the Deep State. What is more Deep State than covering up for pedophiles?” someone asked former Trump adviser Steve Bannon at a MAGA event on Friday.
It isn’t just outside onlookers and online MAGA diehards who are miffed. Rolling Stone can confirm that FBI Director Kash Patel and FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino have also been furious since the memo’s release, and more broadly over Bondi’s handling of the Epstein investigation, including the public rollout of federal conclusions.
Laura Loomer — a far-right conspiracy theorist who is close with Trump and was also apoplectic over the memo — posted to X on Friday that Patel and Bongino are “LIVID” at Bondi, and that Bongino even took the day off from work on Friday. Axios corroborated soon after that Bongino ditched work on Friday after clashing with Bondi over these matters, with CNN adding that Bongino has talked to people about potentially resigning over the memo…
Trump promised before the election that his administration would release the so-called Epstein Files, which MAGA conspiracy theories long hoped would reveal a host of powerful figures who were in league with Epstein. After Bondi said Epstein’s client list was on her desk in February, she arranged a stunt in which she handed out folders consisting of “Phase 1” of the Epstein Files to prominent right-wing influencers.
Many of these influencers now feel betrayed by the DOJ’s memo, which noted that after an “exhaustive” investigation, the administration found “no incriminating ‘client list,’” nor any “credible evidence … that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.” The DOJ also released a video of Epstein’s cell the night he died. The video skips a minute before midnight, however, which led to more speculation about a potential cover-up…
Trump, once a friend of Epstein’s, lashed out at a reporter who asked Bondi about the missing minute during a Cabinet meeting earlier this week, questioning why anyone was still bringing up Epstein, and calling it a “desecration.” Bondi attributed the missing minute in the footage to an old system that cuts out a minute when the video is reset every night, which hardly tamped down the uproar over the memo and video.
Elon Musk, a former Trump ally and megadonor who headed his so-called Department of Government Efficiency, has added fuel to the fire as his relationship with the president has deteriorated. He wrote last month that the “real reason” the Epstein Files had not been made public is because Trump “is in” them. Musk then wondered after the memo’s release on Sunday, “How can people be expected to have faith in Trump if he won’t release the Epstein files?”
Unsympathetic observers have snarked that Bongino is finding his ‘FBI deputy director’ job harder and less personally rewarding than his old gig as a prominent right-wing podcaster, especially since Attorney General Pam Bondi has been suspiciously unsympathetic recently to Bongino’s most loyal QAnon-curious audience.
===
And now Jamie Raskin is stirring the pot…
Top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee (which oversees DOJ) says "I'm going to be asking Chairman Jordan to call for a hearing where we subpoena the Attorney General and Dan Bongino and Kash Patel to come in and tell us everything that we know" about the Jeffrey Epstein files
— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 9:49 PM
===
yeah this feels different. They're getting hammered by their own base and its ripping the leadership of the administration apart.
Trump being totally checked out probably means this just rages for awhile, and who knows what happens with that being the case.— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 3:15 PM
==
@schnorkles.bsky.social yesyesyesyesyes he's not gonna go quietly fuck yeah fuck yeah fuck yeah fuck yeah
— SpiderHyphenMan (@spiderhyphenman.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 6:45 PM
===
Laura Loomer is currently referring to Attorney General Pam Bondi as “Scam Blondie”
— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yasharali.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 4:09 PM
===
White House backs Bondi
— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yasharali.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 5:55 PM
===
If you think Trump is going side with Bongino to fire Pamela Jo Bondi, who got her job by protecting Trump from a Florida investigation of Trump University's consumer fraud (after a $25,000 bribe), for protecting him again by withholding the Epstein list with his name on it, bless your little heart.
— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@mrsbettybowers.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 9:24 PM
===
crank schism. Crank schism! CRANK SCHISM!
— The Wrong Way Kid (@the-wrong-way-kid.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 5:52 PM
===
after bellowing about epstein for years they’ve all backed themselves into a corner and i love that for them
— shauna (@goldengateblond.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 5:38 PM
====
Mob boss Donald Trump resorts to the crime of extortion in hopes of keeping some of his other crimes hidden from the public. This is evidence known as #ConsciousnessOfGuilt in criminal cases.
— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@mrsbettybowers.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 7:21 PM
===
Like this was always how this ship of incompetence was going to go. The glue kind of keeps everything together while there aren't active catastrophic situations, but the second that happens, you have a federal government completely unable to respond because of Elon and Vought.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 5:28 PM
===
Bondi, Patel, Bongino…I wonder which one Putin will fire.
— Dana Houle (@danahoule.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 6:10 PM
===
Watching different MAGA factions rip each other apart over Epstein because the truth is completely incidental to their various agendas is quite a sight to behold.
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 7:41 PM
===
Amidst all the tragedy, stupidity, and horror of the Trump admin, it is good to finally have something incredibly stupid to lol about.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) July 11, 2025 at 6:07 PM
War for Ukraine Day 1,233: Another Day, More Russian War Crimes & Crimes Against Humanity
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
rikyrah
Epstein?
Epstein?
They are destroying this country, and THIS IS WHAT’S UPSETTING THEM?
Are they serious?🤔🧐
This just reads lunatic 😒😒
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Baud
It’s like that 2 am WordPress glitch that causes comments to repeat. Nothing to see here.
Baud
This is just a distraction from Trump’s other distractions.
Central Planning
@Baud: Does that work like a double negative, so there is no distraction?
Baud
@Central Planning:
As distractions go, this one might qualify, since whether or not they release the information, real people are unlikely to be harmed. But it’s important to MAGA which means it’s important to the media, and it’s important to us because it’s an internecine fight on their side that Dems can take advantage of since it doesn’t require us to compromise any of our positions or throw anyone under the bus.
ETA: As rikyrah said more succinctly in comment 2.
Baud
AI is becoming more human every day.
JoyceH
I have never understood the MAGA fascination with the Epstein story, because however many links they could draw between Epstein and this or that Democrat, there were scores more links between Epstein and Trump. Did they think the outside world would turn a blind eye to the Trump links and go haring off after a Democrat who’s been out of office for a quarter of a century? Did they think we wouldn’t also speculate about Trump’s other connections to attractive teens, such as his pageant and his skeevy modeling agency?
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
So did all these MAGAs think Epstein had a clien t list but Trump wasn’t on it?
Baud
Good on CNN.
Baud
@JoyceH:
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride:
All evidence against Trump is deep state fake news.
bjacques
@Baud:
NHI: No Humans Involve Maybe some lizard people
I’m rubbing my hands going “yes! yes!” like a Jack T. Chick-style sicko
mrmoshpotato
Boo hoo, Oinko Boingo!
As much as I love Monty Python’s work, can some take the script writing away from the surviving members
Added – He would look better if he smiled more. Smile! You son of a bitch!
TS
@Baud:
Nixon had 18 missing minutes – trump has to do better – he has the best of everything
Princess
I dunno. I’ll believe this is a real fight when there are actual consequences for someone. Until then, I think it’s all WWF, designed to keep their base together by providing release valves for their anger. When Patel resigns (Bognino is looking for an excuse to leave anyway) I’ll reconsider. If there are actual consequences for Musk, I’ll believe he and Trump are actually fighting. So far there have been zero. So I’m skeptical.
lowtechcyclist
@TS:
HA! That’s nothing. Fundagelicalism has an entire missing day.
Good morning, y’all!
mrmoshpotato
Depends on how well they suck Kremlin ass.
Jeffg166
Anything that brings the felon down is OK with me.
Baud
@Jeffg166:
I don’t expect anything to bring him down. I’m just going for maximum weakening.
hueyplong
The chef’s kiss in this WWE battle is that the person officially declaring “nothing to see here” has literally made a career out of not prosecuting Donald Trump.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Oopsie poopsie! McTrashass’s is also poopsie – before eating it.
mrmoshpotato
@JoyceH: Or Dump now being a convicted rapist. 🤷♂️
MagdaInBlack
Thanks for this, A.L. I have been enjoying this maga meltdown for several days now.
Citizen Dave
When these people aren’t destroying the nation in administration jobs, their other gig is always “right-wing commentator/podcaster/radio host/crank” etc. Always amazed at the seemingly infinite audience for daily bullshit.
mrmoshpotato
@Princess: Sorry, I must point out that it’s WWE (Wanking Wanking Entertainment?) now, but only because the World Wildlife Foundation bitchslapped the living shit out of Vince and Linda McTrash in court. Fuck them both!
Good on ya, World Wildlife Foundation!
Princess
@mrmoshpotato: 😂 Oops. You see what I know…
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
WWF should have forced them to wrestle a bear.
prostratedragon
@Baud: Just yesterday I saw a review of a show that criticized the writers for having someone use a stupid code like that for sensitive materials, as if in real life no one would do such a thing. My thought then was, “You dear child, if you only knew …”
lowtechcyclist
@Princess:
How about this?
Montanareddog
@mrmoshpotato:
Speaking of surviving Python members, from yesterday’s Grauniad:
‘I’d be proud to be thrown out of America!’ Eric Idle on Trump, life after Python and not talking before lunch
artem1s
I think it’s pretty obvious that the orange pedophile first priority for DOGE was to scrub as much incriminating evidence as possible. The Epstein files had to be pretty high on that list. Did they fuck up and scrub all the compromising info that’s been keeping so many of the sycophants in line? Is Patel pissed because he thought he was going to get to have his own secret Hoover files to threaten people with? Maybe it’s just that secrets only have power over someone for as long as they remain a secret? Lord knows the ;GOP and The Stupid Reich has completely buried the bar for what is considered a career or administration ending scandal.
tsquared2001
@rikyrah: Insane in the membrane.
p.a
How fucking stoopid are they when they could have just issued a half-assed report with mostly Dem names and let their whackjob followers and the multitude of media asskissers run with it for a while?
Sure, maybe repercussions later, but what do these chuds care? Their followers are idiots, just keep kicking the can down the road ans sooner or later some shiny object will steal attention…
eclare
Thanks for this, Anne Laurie. I’ve wondered what the kerfuffle was about.
Suzanne
@Baud: THAT’S THE SAME COMBINATION I HAVE ON MY LUGGAGE!!!
Anyway, Imma sit back and watch MAGA haz some big sadz and enjoy. This episode is making me realize something, though….. some of these freaks actually believe themselves to have principles! I have always assumed that the cult aspects would win out for them…. but huh! This is unexpectedly funny!
Baud
@Suzanne:
The cult worships Trump, not his flunkies. And the MAGA who are outraged aren’t outraged at Trump.
Spanky
@Baud: Wait, 64 million applicants? That means 20 percent of America wants to work at McDonald’s?
Shit.
divF
@Montanareddog: I just read it. The best part is the questioners, who are a mix of non-famous fans and prominent entertainment people – Hank Azaria, Tracey Ullman, Catherine Zeta-Jones, David Mamet,…
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Part of the interesting part (for me) is watching the various “influencers” twisting themselves into pretzels to NOT make the connection that trump is on the damn list they want so bad.
“Fire Bondi” : as if she’s gone rogue or something and isn’t following the orders of her boss: trump.
Warblewarble
MAGA outrage? Believe nothing until you are kneedeep in blood and entrails.
p.a
@Baud: In fascism, if/when faith in the leader falters…
German joke circa 1944: “How is Hitler not like the sun? The sun rises in the east. Hitler goes down in the east.”
Ramalama
@Spanky: what if a bunch of those applicants are bots? Nothing draws a bot to you faster than having something to fill out online.
Josie
@rikyrah:
This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the tweets, or whatever they are. This is very low on the list of things I am concerned about, although it displays how abhorrent the orange one is. Our democracy is headed into the toilet and these cranks are upset about a gossip blowup.
Baud
@Spanky:
Kamala was an inspiration.
Suzanne
@Warblewarble:
I can’t wait. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Baud
In more drag queen news
satby
Really haven’t much to say on the topic other than they encourage these conspiracy theories to grow out of control, so it serves them right.
And thanks to all of you who contributed to my rescue group’s little fundraiser for Sapphire kitty’s eye surgery. The grants we get are limited to our core mission of spay/neuter, so when one comes in so injured and sick, the expenses are out of pocket for us. So many thanks.
mappy!
If MAGA’s audience is MAGA, and the media is all MAGA all the time, at what point does normie attention fatigue hit? Or, did it already hit and nobody noticed? This is like a self driving outrage junkie Tesla with no route or GPS…
chrome agnomen
for me, the reason MAGA is so upset about the failure to release that Epstein list, is that they so much want Clinton to be on it, not that Trump may be on it. (which they will immediately explain away)
MagdaInBlack
@chrome agnomen: I think you are correct. They are sure that list is just chock full of Democrats and other evil “liberal elite.”
Baud
@chrome agnomen:
“Trump was going undercover to protect the children.”
lowtechcyclist
@mappy!:
Nominated!
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
I wouldn’t be surprised if former Dem Alan Dershowitz is on the list.
geg6
@Baud:
I watched it. It’s pretty damning if you ask me. But nobody ever does.
I’m having fun with this Epstein shit, I admit. Watched some YT shorts demonstrating the copium these so-called manosphere creators are injesting and it is delicious. And if you’re not watching them, you’re not seeing how this is starting to turn their brains to the obvious question as to why Cheetolini has been so quiet about all this. I love it. These guys aren’t really MAGA diehards like the fundies and Nazis. Think Joe Rogan and Andrew Schultz, who are plainly idiots but not completely evil. They haven’t really been thrilled with the immigration stuff and they are believing none of the DoJ and WH spin about this Epstein stuff. AFAICT, they haven’t definitively said Cheetolini’s in the files but their suspicions about that are growing and, however they dance around it, one of them is gonna say it someday soon unless they get the files. Most fun I’ve had in six months.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: oh , he’s on it =-)
news4sanantonio.com/news/nation-world/former-epstein-lawyer-speaks-out-amid-controversy-alan-dershow…
Baud
@geg6:
He hasn’t been completely quiet. He’s defended Bondi’s decision.
eclare
@geg6:
Thanks for your comment about the doc. I have HBO Max so I’ll watch it soon.
Geminid
@Princess: I think this is a real fight, but it seems like it’s within a subset of the MAGA base. I’m not sure how many of the larger set of Trump supporters care about the Epstein tapes.
I see that Tucker Carlson is flogging the Mossad angle hard; he says Epstein worked for the Israelis. Attitudes towards the US/Israel relationship are a fault line within the “American First” movement, and Carlson is trying to exploit its intersection with the Epstein story.
geg6
@Baud:
Exactly!
Suzanne
@geg6: Rogan and Schultz are getting restless with FFOTUS and I agree, it is fun to watch. This Epstein stuff is cooking some brains.
geg6
@eclare:
Be prepared. It’s some very ugly stuff.
Kathleen
@Baud: Thank you for featuring my BlueSKy post!
MagdaInBlack
@satby: That’s a good point you make about them losing control of their monster/method of control.
Baud
@Kathleen:
I forgot to like it. Fixed.
geg6
@Suzanne:
Did you catch the clip from Schultz’s show with him and his cronies discussing this? Where they all put on tinfoil hats? I was dying laughing.
MagdaInBlack
@Suzanne: I am enjoying this just waaay more than I probably should =-)
But I hate the word “should” so fuk it, make more popcorn.
@geg6: I have been watching a lot of clips of various maga podcasters twisting themselves into pretzels over this and it is hilarious.
Suzanne
@geg6: I have not! I will watch it today!
I’m a little bit mean. I’m sorry, y’all.
p.a
@Geminid: Yes, from my thankfully small exposure to those people, mostly ex US military, the attack on the USS Liberty looms large in their worldview. There are other instances they mention, but I avoid those particular rabbit holes.
Kathleen
@Baud: They wouldn’t even care about that, given evidence of how many red states want to lower age for child marriages. Older article but I’m sure sentiments haven’t chanaged.
rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-lawmakers-child-marriage-abortion-1235018777/
satby
OT, but fun and it also highlights what immigrants and their descendants contribute to a nation.
And with that, I’m off to the market. Everyone have a lovely day!
Kathleen
@Baud: Thank you!
p.a
@MagdaInBlack: Much like establishment Republicanism lost control of the chuds. I want to make the “popcorn” joke, but so many people are getting hurt by these trashumans.
MagdaInBlack
@p.a: I apologize. I did make the popcorn joke. For this Epstein list drama only tho…..
Spanky
@Suzanne:
That’s one of your endearing qualities around here.
p.a
@MagdaInBlack: Oh no I agree, it’s perfectly fine by me to point and laugh. Raised Catholic, so even though I’m a nonbeliever, pleasure/guilt is a thing.😂
Shalimar
@p.a: I doubt there are many politicians from either party among his clients, and this was 15-30 years ago so a lot of those who are there are dead now. Epstein mostly seemed interested in getting extremely rich, so most of his clients would have been well-connected ultra-wealthy guys. Not that many extremely rich people run for office personally, but Republicans protect the super-rich above all else, so they do not want those names released.
MagdaInBlack
@p.a: Me too on the raised Catholic non-believer. Man, it does stick with you, doesn’t it =-)
lowtechcyclist
@MagdaInBlack:
But it works so well in the Southernism “might should.”
Speaking of Southernisms, Betty Bowers’ “bless your little heart” was perfect.
Betty
@MagdaInBlack:Dersh was exposed before, but said it was only a massage by an old lady and he kept by his underpants on. Okay.
artem1s
I think there were lots of Bush brothers and their friends. Remember W created quite the scandal when he gave WH press credentials to known rent boy and his name kept showing up on the overnight guest list. The media buried that one pretty quickly. It wasn’t just girls being passed around at those parties. It was boys and coke too. Also,too everyone in FL politics wanted to be seen with Epstein – wanted an invite to the plane or that island. And they all participated in the first round of coverups.
Betty
@Shalimar: I may be a conspiracist, but I think there is reason to believe powerful figures, including politicians and millionaires, are on the list because the opportunity to blackmail them with tapes had to be very tempting. I wouldn’t dismiss the Mossad connection either. This was a very large and long-standing operation.
chemiclord
So basically, we are seeing the emerging conflict from the two primary camps of the GOP:
1) Those that saw Trump as their vessel they could use for the rise of their God-King…
and
2) Those that saw Trump as their God-King.
Lovely.
MagdaInBlack
@lowtechcyclist: I like that because the “might” softens the guilt implications of “should.” ;-)
zhena gogolia
@Princess: I’m wondering if an acquaintance is going to rename his dogs (from Kash and Tulsi).
Gvg
@Shalimar: from what I saw, Epstein was deliberately seeking out politicians to be photographed with at parties. Not necessarily the exploitive parties, just rich people connected parties where donations could be solicited, like all big politicians have to go to all the time. Epstein made sure he gave and went to a lot of those and that he was photographed at them, plus I think he made sure those pictures got published. Then he didn’t need to do anything really. No threats from himself. It would be in the politicians and their Allie’s and parties and probably even media editors to try not to notice any bad stories about Epstein until it got really bad.
Bill Clinton with the past stories about him (all of age not super young though) would be an especially useful photograph. I don’t know that he is totally innocent, but I do recall reading a more detailed list of an investigation into his contact with Epstein and concluding that Epstein was using him for cover and Clinton wasn’t the only one.
prostratedragon
@satby:
Fun indeed. Oddly enough, yesterday’s discussion in one thread of conversation as courtly dancing sent me down a rabbit hole of dance videos. One thing I noticed is how the movements of couples, quartets, and so on, prompt thoughts of cis and trans conformations, opposing spins, what have you.
Congo minuet, one couple. This was a standard form during the minuet age, in 2/4 instead of 3/4 time.
Pavane and Galliard, three couples. The pavane is a grand march, including the musicians. The galliard is short, but brisk.
suzanne
@Spanky: LOL. One of my friends described herself: “I’m a goddamned delight“. She really is, too. My favorite kind of people.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It’s hilarious they think there is a client list in the first place. Someone paying for sex with an underage girl isn’t going to give their full legal name.
gene108
@JoyceH:
My gut feeling is there’s a through line between QAnon conspiracy folks, who believed Hillary Clinton ran a child trafficking ring out of the basement of a basement less pizzeria in D.C., and the MAGA Epstein conspiracy folks.
QAnon folks believed Trump would liberate the trafficked children, back in 2016, who were being shipped in Wayair filing cabinets. It doesn’t take much to go from this to Trump will release the Epstein so MAGA knows who, figuratively speaking, was “receiving those Wayfair cabinets with kids in them”.
CCL
@artem1s: “Orange Pedophile.” Should be repeated everywhere and often. In their hearts, they gotta know it’s true. Let them disapprove it, as LBJ (apologies to raven) said.
stinger
@prostratedragon:
Lovely, thanks!
prostratedragon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think Epstein’s business model might have required thst he know these things.
Fair Economist
@JoyceH:
The media has. Compare the number of NYT stories about Clinton using the same email system as every previous Secretary of State to those about Trump’s numerous links to Epstein.
twbrandt
@lowtechcyclist: well, Prof. Harald Hill was a con man.
MagdaInBlack
@prostratedragon: And it’s not as if his clients were “John Doe” in from Kalamazoo for a convention. These were/are well known people, else there would not be such drama.
Princess
@Geminid: And the horseshoe became a circle when John Cusack posted a volley antisemitic meme tying Epstein and Blinken to each other and to Mossad (now deleted).
Geminid
Meanwhile, as MAGA-world wraps itself around the Epstein axle, the rest of the world keeps spinning.
London-based Middle East Eye reported yesterday on an important development in the 41-year conflict between the Kurdistan Worker’s Party (PKK) and the Turkish state that has cost 40,000 lives and distorted Turkish politics for decades.
It was a ceremony in northeastern Iraq:
This was just 30 fighters, and the PKK has plenty more weapons in its strongholds in the nearby Qandil Mountains. But this symbolic step is the result of years of negotiations between government officials and PKK founder Abdullah Ocalan. They took place at the island prison where Ocalan has been held since 1999, and intensified late last year. Ocalan’s authority over the PKK is unquestioned, and he has thrown his weight behind peace and reconciliation between Kurds and Turks.
Today Turkish President R.T. Erdogan announced the next step in the process; his ruling coalition will work with the Kurdish-based DEM Party to establish a parliamentary commission and pass legislation aimed at ending the PKK conflict. The broad outlines of the reforms seem to have been agreed upon already.
Yesterday’s ceremony was notable for the role of the now-disolved PKK’s woman fighters:
This link will provide more details:
middleeasteye.net/news/pkk-fighters-burn-weapons-landmark-disarmament-ceremony
I tinkered with the link, but it still won’t work so I will delete it. I hit the article’s high points though
After more tinkering the link works.
JetsamPool
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a judiciously edited version of the files released. Or an obvious forgery. Chain of Custody? We don’t need no stinking Chain of Custody!
chemiclord
@Betty: If I had to guess, the “list” Epstein made basically had every interaction he had with anyone wealthy or powerful, and not necessarily clients. The creep went out of his way to integrate himself with anyone with any meaningful influence, and I sincerely doubt all of them were interested in buying what he was selling… but it would make for excellent blackmail nonetheless.
I strongly suspect if the “Epstein List” had anything particularly salacious beyond what had already been leaked… someone clout-hunting would have leaked it.
As for the entire “Epstein was murdered” angle, I have yet to see anything particularly compelling about the evidence that can’t be explained by “shitty prison doing shitty prison things.” Do I doubt that a shitty prison doesn’t exactly have the best surveillance? Yep. Would it surprise me at all they still use crappy equipment from the 90s? Nope. Am I surprised that Trump is trying to cover this all up simply because it makes him “look bad?” Not in the slightest.
At the end of the day, I have to believe one of two scenarios. Either a secret cabal of wealthy and powerful individuals who could have offed Epstein at any number of opportunities decided to choose the worst possible time when he was under the biggest microscope of his life to kill him and guarantee exactly the sort of scrutiny that they spent literally decades trying to avoid… or a dude used to a billionaire’s lifestyle was looking at a lifetime in a shitty prison with all his allies pretending they never knew him, and decided to check out early while creating exactly the sort of chaos and scrutiny his clients sought to avoid.
I dunno, the most likely scenario seems pretty obvious to me.
TerryC
@p.a: I was in Navy boot camp when the Liberty was attacked. Right afterwards they told me they wanted me to learn Chinese and be on a spy ship because I had aced their exams.
I said, “Nope” and they sent me to do menial crew work on an amphibious ship.
That lasted until I got the Commanding Officer shitcanned. Then they passed me on to Underwater Demolition Team 13.
prostratedragon
@chemiclord: Blackmail, but also advertising, saying, “I know everybody and can put you in touch underwraps with anyone.” That’s another line he could offer to intell services. It’s even self-enforcing.
Paul M Gottlieb
People like Patel and Bongino will never quit of “principle.” They are so corrupt AND incompetent, that they have no comparable employment opportunities. If you were a business owner, woul d you hire either of those clowns, even as a fry cook?
Geminid
@TerryC: In 1969, my older brother dropped out of college and enlisted in the Marine Corps. He tested well, so they sent him to language school at Monterey, California where he learned Arabic, Iraqi dialect. Then he spent most of a year at Lackland AFB in Florida for his communications MOS.
I’m not sure if my brother knew any of the Liberty survivors but he served with people who knew the survivors and those killed. He said there were a lot of hard feelings over the incident, as would be expected.
As it turned out, my brother was on a ship in the Mediterranean when war broke out in October of 1973. He got to put his training to work, monitoring communications much like those on the Liberty were doing in 1967 when the Israelis bombed them.
But my brother worked on a much larger ship, along with 1500 Sailors and Marines who were part of a floating expeditionary force. One of the things the Navy learned from the Liberty incident– and the capture of the Pueblo seven months later– was that putting intelligence units on small ships and sending them out on their own was a very bad idea.
Baud
When MO isn’t overturning the will of the voters, it’s doing useful things like this.
dnfree
@satby: Just donated a little. Poor kitty. Thanks for your efforts.
Geminid
@Paul M Gottlieb: I expect Bongino to quit on principle, the principle being: it’s better to resign than be fired. I don’t think this administration will tolerate boat-rockers.
Geminid
@Gvg: I did some research into the Clinton/Epstein connection a few years ago. I found that both the Clintons had flown with Epstein on his jet to a couple third world countries. This was not long after Bill Clinton left office, and apparently Epstein had presented himself as a potential backer for the Clintons’ charitable endeavors.
The relationship did not last very long. I think the Clintons were told that Epstein was bad news and that they needed to avoid him.
Geminid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Epstein knew the clients’ names. He was performing a sort of concierge service for sex with nubile young women. I think the underaged component was the lesser part, but it was especially important for blackmail purposes.
I read that typically, Epstein did not extort cash payments from his wealthy targets. Instead he had them invest large funds in his “legit” money managing entity, where he could rake off the profit for himself.
Baud
@Geminid:
Today, he would have them buy his crypto.
bjacques
@Geminid: when everyone made a big deal of the flight logs of Epstei’s jet and the numerous rides he gave Clinton, I gathered that it was only about Bill’s Clinton Foundation tour of Africa, the jet being medium range, and each hop, including refueling stops, would have been logged separately.
Then I lost interest, and if publishing Epstein’s little black book means exposing the Clintons (unlikely), I am here for it.
Geminid
@Gvg: Epstein also cultivated Silicon Valley tech titans. One avenue was fancy dinners and events sponsored by the Edge Foundation based in San Francisco.
Back before she left Twitter in October of 2023, tech culture journalist Xeni Jardin posted material about the Edge Foundation dinners that she had attended. By her account, Jardin played no part in Epstein’s illegal activities, but she still felt that she had helped enable them. Her belief was that Epstein was running an intelligence operation.
prostratedragon
WIRED, today:
Ruckus
@Princess:
So far there have been zero. So I’m skeptical.
Skepticism is always involved when dealing with people that we call scam artists, especially when their skill as scammers is out in the open for all to see. Like here. There is almost always more to the story than the first or second press go round. The issue is not that the knowledge will get out for all to see it is that it normally takes time and effort to see the totality of the scam and scam “artists.” But for me I’d say the scam has been somewhat visible till now, when it is all being exposed as most of the involved will be shown publicly for their involvement.
A wonderful moment in our nation’s history.
Miss Bianca
@geg6: I have a hard time caring about the Epstein files mishegas, and I can just about give a wan-looking, watery shit about whatever’s roiling MAGAthood at this point, but it would be faintly delicious to see these Rogan-type bros finally turn on the Orange One and Orangehood in general.
“Slowly I turn…step by step…inch by inch…”
@Geminid:
Carlson is still a thing?
Ruckus
@Baud:
His own pompous arrogance will likely bring him down. And as more and more of his most pompous first level backers get exposed the more he will as well. This is a scandal of epic proportions, one long suspected, being exposed for all to see. Now a segment of the population will refuse to believe the story and the involvement of certain individuals because it involves people they believed in. But usually in these kinds of situations, as more and more of the participants get exposed the entire thing falls apart and it’s like a skyscraper falling down. A bit of noise and then all at once, the whole thing falls down – from its own weight. We are hearing the bit of noise. Stand by for the fall.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: wow, this is amazing news. Thank you for keeping us up to date on the world outside!
Miss Bianca
@chemiclord: Slightly to paraphrase Lord Peter Wimsey’s nephew, “Nasty clear-headed way you have of putting things.” ; )
trnc
Per the last O’Bork post, I don’t think it’s about the incompetence as it is about the competing agendas of people who have latched onto different lies. But the incompetence doesn’t help.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: Tucker Carlson still has a following, I don’t know how large though.
Carlson interviewed Iranian President Pezeshkian a week ago. He’s got some sort of internet TV platform.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It’s the exposure. People have habits. All of us have habits. Sometimes people with money have habits that the majority really can’t afford. But they also have money to either help involve others so they won’t talk or pay off others so they won’t talk. Now of course this isn’t all wealthy people but wealth does help in this premise of doing things most of us are likely do not do.
satby
@dnfree: just back, and thank you.
And all who contributed. So much appreciated!
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: This story has fascinated me since last November, when the news of negotiations between the Turkish government and Ocalan came out. Then in December, Ocalan released a statement saying he was “making the call” to pursue a settlement.
In addition to being a charismatic leader of a liberation movement, Abdullah Ocalan is a political theorist, and his analysis of the factors leading to this decision was couched in historical terms.
I would like to know more about the negotiations that led to Ocalan’s decision. Hakan Fidan, Erdogan’s formidable Foreign Minister, was point man in negotiations during the period 2007-2013 that resulted in an earlier ceasefire that blew up in 2015.
Fidan happens to be half-Kurdish himself, his father being a member of a Kurdish tribe. Fidan holds a PhD in International Relations and like Ocalan is considered an intellectual.
Fidan is an intellectual of an unsusual type though; he served 15 years as a noncom in the Turkish Army before earning his PhD at Bilkent University near Ankara. He was teaching there in 2005 when then-Prime Minister Erdogan tapped him to be his troubleshooter. Fidan’s first assignment: engaging in secret negotiations with PKK representatives in Norway.
News of this leaked, and at one point prosecutors opened a criminal investigation of Fidan for violating a law forbidding contact with the PKK. I suspect this was what Turks called the “Deep State” in action. Erdogan’s AK Party forestalled Fidan’s prosecution by passing legislation exempting an agent of the Prime minister from this prohibition.
Erdogan named Fidan head of Turkiye’s M.I.T. intelligence agency in 2011. That was a very important post because a lot of the heavy duty diplomacy in the Middle East is conducted through intelligence chiefs. So,Fidan was well-prepared for the role of Foreign Minister when Rrdogan tapped him for the position in June of 2023. That was right after Erdogan won another term as President.
Fidan is thought to be Erdogan’s likely successor for that post.
If successful, this peace process could have a profound effect on Turkiye and the greater region. It will definitely have a big effect on Abdullah Ocalan’s life. The PKK leader has been imprisoned on Imrali Island in the Sea of Marmara* ever since 1999, when Turkish intelligence agents snatched him up in Nairobi and brought him to Turkiye. Now there’s a good chance Ocalan will be a free man before year’s end.
* The Sea of Marmara was known as Propontus back in the day. Imrali Island may be the one Jason and the Argonauts camped at on their way to Colchis in search of the Golden Fleece.
CindyH
Deleted as already noted in many comments
Enhanced Voting Techniques
One of players in my on line RPG was a working girl.
What she said:
I mean seriously, talking to another guy about sex at that level is like talking to another guy in a restroom; a major violation of Man Law.
Going by what she was saying Maxwell would be the one with the list.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I’m a little bit mean. I’m sorry, y’all.
In this day and age I think not being a little bit mean would be wrong.
Look at our current government, as in who is in charge. And it’s not only that he’s aging out, as most of us do, it’s that he is one of the many members of the worst of the worst club. And enough people voted for him, in a population of the size of ours. I don’t think that bodes well for us, in the likely view of much of the rest of the planet.
Geminid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: This is all very interesting, bu I don’t see how the knowledge you gained from the “working girl” in your gamer group applies to this situation..
Jeffrey Epstein hosted these liasons, on his Carribean island and his New Mexico mansion. He did not hide out when the men showed up; he greeted them and socialized with them because they were his guests.This operation was of a whole different nature than what you are talking about
Epstein was not some run-of-the-mill pimp or panderer; he was running an extensive influence, intelligence and blackmail operation among political and financial elites. He didn’t just keep lists. He had pinhole cameras all over his properties and he kept video tapes.
Geminid
@Geminid: One cloud on the horizon for this Turkish/PKK peace process: negotiations between Syria’s central government and the SDF over the integration of areas it controls in northeast Syria into the Syrian state hit a deadlock this week. Same with the integration of the SDF into the Syrian army. The YPG militia that forms the backbone of the US-sponsored SDF is a rebranded unit of the PKK.
This is a volatile situation that could potentially develop into a shooting war, so it is worth keeping an eye on.
Geminid
@Geminid: Besides his island and New Mexico home, Epstein also had a large Manhattan partment where he did a lot of socializing with guests and they had access to women.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Geminid: at the very lest it should the middle class is more wary of being blackmailed than the elite.
Also, Trump demanded Maxwell’s pardon today.
Geminid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: That’s weird. Maxwell was convicted on federal charges and is a federal prisoner, so Trump can pardon her himself. He’s pretty messed up in the head though, so he might not realize this.
Trump definitely should shut up about the Epstein case because he gives it more oxygen every time he runs his mouth about it.
“He protesteth too much.” Way too much.
No One You Know
@Baud: I wondered how ADHD would get nationalized. Now I know!
No One You Know
@Montanareddog: Oh, yeah…John Cleese also made the UK section of the supposed “Epstein list.” Assuming that isn’t just a gag.
No One You Know
@JetsamPool: I have “Jeffrey_Epstein39s_Little_Black_Book_unredacted.pdf” from either X or Blue Sky… seriously can’t remember which one I downloaded from. Starts in 2004, runs 10,000 pages, lots of phone numbers. Alphabetically sorted by geography, and I can’t swear it’s not a spoof. (I have vivid memories of The Hitler Diaries that gave Der Spiegal a black eye, back in the day. )