h/t Another Scott
What is Beto doing in Virginia? He cares about democracy. And organizing. And doing our part in this fight. Fighting and winning.
Here’s an excerpt, but there is much more at the link. And video for those who prefer that.
But one of the things that we learned in this last election and we should have learned it long before is that you will not have a political democracy if you do not also have an economic one. If folks cannot get what they need from a government of the many, soon enough they are open to getting what they need from a government of the few or a government even of just one. Now, we expect our fellow Americans to strive to get ahead, to serve, to sacrifice even. All of us have had to do that in our lives. But we do not expect you to have to struggle just to survive. And that’s what so many millions of our fellow Americans are doing right now.
So, I want you to imagine a future where we guarantee that your take-home pay is enough to live on so you don’t have to work a second or a job just to get by. I want you to imagine a future where when you’re sick, you can see a doctor before you’re sick. You can see a doctor so that you do not get sick in the first place. We guarantee that you have access to fresh and healthy food, clean drinking water, the time and space to exercise and move your body, to spend time with your kids, with your family, with your loved ones. I mean, this is the stuff that makes life worth living. That’s an economic future that we can all agree on and believe in. It is giving people what they’re asking for. And if we’re honest with ourselves, it is what they need and what they’re not getting right now. And I want you to remember, we are the wealthiest, the most powerful country in the entirety of human history. We do not lack for the resources to get this done. Only the political will to accomplish it.
Speaking of our power and the fact that we are the most powerful country on the planet today, I want you to imagine this future. An America that no longer turns its back on its allies and its friends, but instead chooses to work with them on matters great and small. We alone will not be able to defeat the spectre of climate change before it’s too late. We need the other countries of this planet. The issues and challenges of international migration. We need the other countries of this hemisphere. Nuclear non-prololiferation. I sure as hell do not want to get into another war in the Middle East with Iran. What about nonviolently, peacefully resolving our differences diplomatically, bringing the nations of the world together if that’s what it takes to make sure that we end wars and do not start them? We sow peace and reap prosperity for the people of this world and also for the people of the United States. And imagine us, imagine us standing on the principles of human rights and self-determination and no longer being complicit in the bombing and starving and slaughtering of children and families in Gaza, innocent civilians who are killed by the tens of thousands with the help of this country. Imagine a future we are not part of that. But instead, we use this awesome power to bring the nations of the Middle East together, the nations of the world, if that’s what we have to do, to ensure that we can establish a sovereign, independent state for the Palestinian people, guarantee their safety and security, the security of the Israelis and everyone who lives in that region. It’s good not just for them, it is good for the United States, for our people and our future.
And now imagine this. We bring that same logic back home to this country. And you and your loved ones and your neighbors and your fellow Americans no longer have to fear a masked plain closed federal agent without a warrant or a badge sweeping you off the street, illegally arresting you, detaining you, imprisoning you, deporting you to a country to which you have never been. perhaps sending you to that goolag in El Salvador out from which you will never come. And we we meet that challenge by rededicating ourselves to the Constitution, to the rights and protections contained therein, like due process, which is so sorely missing from this country today. And then back to my fellow Democrats. Listen, I am uh 52 years old and for my entire adult life, the Democratic Party has been promising immigration reform. I don’t even like to utter the phrase anymore because we have so badly failed to deliver on this promise. We had the White House, the House, and the Senate in 2009. We did some wonderful things with it, but we did not move forward on immigration. We had the White House, the House, and the Senate in 2021. We did some wonderful things with that power, but we did not move forward on immigration.
So I want to imagine a future when the Democratic Party once again has control of the levers of government that we use that to rewrite these laws in our own image reflecting our own values legalizing for example every dreamer in this country every Dreamer’s parent in this country every hardworking American who’s putting food on our table working jobs that our kids are not willing to take and make sure that they can contribute even more as US citizens and for those who want to come here who just want to join their family they live in another country right now or they want to work a job because they can’t find back home and this job is unfilled by an American here or they are fleeing certain death for themselves or their kids back in the country where they currently live. We want to make sure and I don’t think this is asking too much that there is a safe legal orderly path to come to this country and to do it the right way. We’re we’re the United States of America. We can figure this stuff out. And look, you see what’s going on. The pastor mentioned it earlier. This is not who we are. These are not our values. These sweeps that we’re seeing through cities large and small. Sewing fear on purpose, terrorizing people who are innocent literally of any crime. And it’s not just immigrants. It’s deporting US citizen children, kids who were born in this country, some with stage four cancer, deported from America without their medications. I mean, who are we at the end of the day if we stay silent and become complicit in what is happening right now to our fellow human beings? We can all agree that we want to have control of our borders. I live in El Paso, Texas, the largest border community in the Western Hemisphere with CEO’s 2.5 million people. We’re raising our kids there. Of course, I want it to be secure. We want to know who’s coming into the United States of America. I think we can agree on that. We want to protect one another from violent criminals. Whether they were born in Virginia or born in Honduras, it doesn’t matter. We just want people to be safe. But I also want you to remember this. Immigrants are not taking anything from any of us. They are contributing far more into this country than they are ever drawing down. They are helping to make this still the greatest country on the planet. I just mentioned it is one of the safest cities in America. Not in spite of the fact that it is a city of immigrants but because it is a city of immigrants. So we forget this at our peril.
But I don’t really think this is about immigration. Just like I don’t think that the attacks on DEI are really about attacks on the idea of diversity or equity or inclusion in this country. Just like I don’t think the attacks on trans Americans are about denying your ability to be who you want to be. That might be an ancillary side benefit for the MAGA movement right now. But what they’re really trying, and I want us all to pay attention to this, is they want to divide us and they want to distract us. They don’t want us to pay attention to the really important big thing that is happening right now, which is that the Republican party and Donald Trump and the billionaires who back them up are robbing us absolutely blind. Is that working? That ‘big beautiful bill’ which is transferring trillions of dollars of trillion is so big I cannot get my head around that number and it’s not just one of those trillions it is four of those trillions adding to the deficit in the short term to the national debt over the long term so not you and me breathing this there right now. But your kids and grandkids and great grandkids and great great grandkids are going to be paying off the debt for money that we sent to the wealthiest people on the planet, bar none, who live in this country, the 1%.
And this is not just a new thing. I mean, Trump did this in his first term. But presidents of both parties have been complicit to a degree over the last five decades. $50 trillion dollar of wealth has moved from lower and middle inome and working Americans to the very wealthiest in this country. If I were part of that heist, I want you to look the other way as well. Right? So, I want you to imagine this, a future where we no longer have socialism for the rich in America. And instead, we make sure that those trillions flow to the people who actually created that wealth in the first place. The folks who work day in and day out in this country, some in states like mine earning $725 an hour. You don’t have one $7.25 an hour job. You have two or three. It’s the only way that you’re going to feed yourself, that you’re going to be able to pa rent, that you’re going to be able to provide for your kids. It is so wrong and it is so unnecessary. Imagine using some of those trillions to cure cancer or Alzheimer’s or the diseases that our loved ones are dying from right now. Imagine using those trillions to build millions of new homes across this country so that people can actually afford to live with their families with a roof over their head because they can’t afford to do it right now. Imagine using those trillions to the benefit of everybody in America. Again, we can do this. It is a function of political will. But to get there, we have to lay out that vision.
The last piece of it that I want to share with you, imagine a Democratic Party that actually fights for these things. that doesn’t submit, that doesn’t roll over, that doesn’t bend over, that doesn’t tell us the fight is over before it has even begun, but fights each and every single day on every front in every state in every county. And so, yes, we would love to see the Democratic Party continue to invest in Northern Virginia. You know, they’re going to go where they’ve always been successful, but how about central Virginia and coastal Virginia and Western Virginia? How about the places that have been written off or taken for granted altogether? And instead of those seven states that the Democratic Party poured $1 billion into and lost every single one of them, how about Mississippi, Alabama, or Texas, too, right? If you think about this, whether we want to agree with this or not, whether we like it or not, probably better said, Texas is our future. And it will either be a future of these extreme abortion bans, a state that leads the nation in school shootings. Nearly two years after the massacre at Uvality that claimed 19 lives, 19 beautiful children, and two teachers, not a single thing has changed in our state to make it any less likely that any other child meet that same fate. We are the state that is the least insured in the nation, that has refused to expand Medicaid even though we invented Medicaid in 1965 with LBJ. Either that is our future, or as Texas continues to pick up electoral college votes, which it will after this next census, and there will be no path to the White House for a Democrat unless we win it, we start investing and working and volunteering and meeting and registering those voters right now.
But if we wait until 2026, if we wait, god forbid, until 2028, if we wait till that census and the reaportionment, I think it will be too late. We have to work now. Which brings me to this. We have the vision. We have the dream. And it must be met with action. Action is the antidote to that despair that tempts us. It is the absolute key to the victory that we seek. And it cannot begin in 2026. And if it hasn’t already started for you, it has to begin today. In this room or just outside this room, there are volunteers who will sign you up and take your free hours this coming week to get out there and meet and register the voters who will decide the outcome of this next election in Virginia and ensure that Abigail Spanberger is the next governor of the great Commonwealth of Virginia. And so let’s make sure that we’re all doing that work right now. We cannot take anything for granted, any person for granted. Let’s get out there. Everyone is important. We talk and listen to each and every one of us. And let us no longer judge or cancel or excommunicate and instead say, ‘Look, if you voted for Donald Trump in this last election, we are glad that you are here today. If you voted for Kamala Harris, the same goes for you. If you did not vote for whatever reason, even better. We are here to listen and to learn from you to make sure that you have a reason to cast that ballot in 2025.
First, and then I’m going to turn this microphone over to you. There are some among us who will doubt whether any of this or certainly all of this is possible. And perhaps for all of us, there are those moments where we doubt whether any or all of this is possible. And I count myself among you. In these moments of doubt, I just want you to remember where we come from and who we are and what we’re made of. I mentioned Thomas Jefferson and the fact that we were just in Philadelphia last night. We are the people against the longest of odds who defeated the most powerful empire on planet earth to secure our independence.
And we did so not easily, not conveniently, not sitting on a couch, not in front of our phones. We did it by willing to by being willing to lay down our lives. And countless numbers did. It wasn’t but 80 years later that we faced another even bigger test. and more than 300,000 from the Union willingly laid down their lives to defeat the Confederacy and to end slavery in America.
We are those people. We are the people who in 1944 landed on those beaches in Normandy once again willing to lay down our lives to defeat fascism half a world away so that we could protect this fragile democracy here at home. And then in the next generation that followed in the 1960s, we marched, we protested, we stood up. Some lost their lives in the process to secure civil rights and voting rights. And we did that not because it was easy, as JFK reminded us, but because it was hard.
Think of the odds that each one of those generations faced. And the fact that they persevered and overcame them and triumphed and make us so godamn proud at this moment. 249 years of history flow into this room at this moment. We are the heirs to all of that struggle, to all of that service, to all of that sacrifice. And what we do with this inheritance, whether in Lincoln’s words, we noly save it or meanly lose it, is going to define us in the eyes of our kids. And it’s going to determine what is possible for America. So no pressure, but we cannot be found wanting at this moment of truth. We absolutely must come through.
Discuss!
I Could Use Your Help with Drawing the Raffle Winners
Suzanne
I have always liked Beto. I hope that there’s a way to use him to his full potential. Texas Dems have a hard road.
Baud
Not thrilled with the idea that we have an obligation to pay people not to be fascist. But I know my outlook is a minority one that won’t win elections.
Deputinize America
OT – We’re binging Palm Royale on Apple+. It’s delightful, and Carol Burnette is still a national treasure. Her facial expressions alone make watching it a joy.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
I’ll give Beto points for being out there and shoring up enthusiasm.
But I’m lukewarm on this take at best. Not only is it not true (cruelty is the point) I’ve said it before, but I think we could get some mileage out of tying economic issues to social issues.
Point out that racists will destroy your business just to “deport” a few dusky looking folks. That they’ll destroy property in your neighborhood to get at people who’ve been your neighbors and babysat your kids and brought your favorite dish to potlucks. That your grocery bills will go up because fruit and vegetable gatherers are scared to come to work.
Point out how racist and sexist and all other -ist policies have been bad for the economy. That Republicans have been bad for the economy for decades. It has the benefit of being true.
The idea that these are two separate issues and we have to downplay or dance around or ignore one to talk about the other is a false pretense and it might be one of the things that’s killing us. It leaves both parties that want us to champion one or the other dissatisfied. If we can figure out how to tie those issues together in the minds of voters, we can fight for both at the same time.
Martin
I you haven’t listened to Ezra Kleins interview of Sarah McBride, I thought it was really good. (I think Klein is a much better interviewer than idea offerer-upperer). I felt Sarah stated Betos first point a lot more clearly and then ran with that a lot better. I can see how she got elected in an environment of trans backlash.
trollhattan
@Deputinize America:
Their
very
slowly
easing
her
into
the narrative
is just genius. As is she (queen). Enjoy!
Suzanne
@Martin: Agree. I enjoy Ezra’s interviews. He gets good guests and he is able to draw really interesting commentary from them. (The McBride interview was good, as was Ehud Olmert.) But I haven’t read Abundance because it sounds boring.
WaterGirl
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: Interesting points.
I think it’s both.
For some people, they are racist and sexist and so on.
For others, it’s a means to an end. Power. Control. Money. Inflicting pain.
piratedan
although I keep a relatively low profile in my place of residence, I am seeing signs that the grip of DJT on the squishy conservatives is weakening. Before, lots of signs and professions of adoration. Not as many now. Hearing snippets of conversations in small breakfast cafes and farmers markets that not all is rosy in Trump land. wannabe landed gentry are having problems keeping workers in place due to the capriciousness of ICE, small business owners are noting the higher costs of items from overseas and its seeping into the low information, racist porous shells of folks.
The guy who represents me now, Whittman, has a pretty effective local bent to his office, lots of regionalized local legislation geared to help out (as a Republican, a decided business bent and in a sane world, I wouldn’t mind it so much as it has an environmental bent to allow an invasive species to be used for cat food) what is not stated is that he’s voted in lockstep with his party for all the crazy and NONE of the cray is ever referred to in his letters to constituents, unless it is beautifully layered in non-offensive GOP spin, which helps for the glossed over crowd, but for anyone who actually asks a question, it falls significantly short and now via BlueSky, I’m getting word that if voting enthusiasm is to be believed, his seat is now gettable, if current trends hold.
WaterGirl
@piratedan: Looks like Whittman is in Virginia, yes?
schrodingers_cat
I disagree with Beto’s revisionist history of immigration reform. As an immigrant I have paid close attention to immigration legislation since the early aughts. The main stumbling block for immigration reform has always been the Republicans.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@WaterGirl: The results are the same whatever the motive. And if we make the -isms less viable as a lever of power (Yeah, I know, tall order, work of generations, etc. But we can look into how best to plant seeds now.) that helps in both arenas.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: That’s a good point, and I agree, but there are many aspects of human nature that are not thrilling. I don’t know whether ignoring it versus acknowledging it versus encouraging it wins elections, but at least recognizing that humans will go with whatever power/political structure they perceive as personally benefitting them in the moment is likely necessary in effective politics.
Edited for clarity. Maybe.
Professor Bigfoot
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: Thank you.
It’s not a distraction; it is the core of their message and the core of their ideology.
The question is— well, is pointing out how much is driven by white supremacy going to get many white people to change their voting habits?
Pessimist that I am, I think the opposite is more likely.
Deputinize America
@trollhattan:
“Valley of the Dolls” meets Eunice with money.
“Wa-wah-wah!”
I love it.
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: Indeed— but the end result remains the same… and it’s not possible, from the outside, to distinguish between their motivations.
Someone said something about what we call those who joined the Nazis not because they hated Jews but because it was the way to get ahead, the uniforms were dashing, and it was so patriotic.
We call them Nazis, their motivations matter not.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, well, Beto is a white dude.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jay
(snip)
wonkette.com/p/ice-gets-access-to-medicaid-records
Suzanne
@Baud:
I interpret this more that the American people have the right to a government and an economic system that function well on their behalf. But perhaps I’m being too emotionally generous.
Jackie
The world no longer trusts the US. They see what WE see: The US is two different countries – depending on which Party is in control. And if the Party switches back and forth every four years, there’s not much chance of the US ever putting another MAGA-like era in the rear back mirror.
WaterGirl
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: I think it’s mostly working for them because the other side doesn’t insist that everyone be on the same page, or have the same motives, or the same approach.
They are willing to use anyone and then spit them out when they are no longer useful.
People don’t like being spit back out after they feel like they are part of something. I’m hoping those numbers keep adding up.
Spanky
Since it’s an Open Thread as well, I’ma gonna just drop this WaPo headline here.
Like the sun rising in the east, this racist is so entirely predictable.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Martin:
Too bad Ezra Broder Klein doesn’t stick to something he might do marginally well. Instead, we get the usual dose of MattY “liberalism” as a doubling down roadmap of where/how the Dem party should go. I digress.
I don’t know McBride personally but my old friend who transitioned last year has gotten to know her thru one of the Denver trans support groups. CO is a state where the Dems, as shitty as they can be on a host of economic issues, are really pushing trans rights as civil rights. I mean nobody gives a crap that our glibertarian, techbro governor is gay, it never comes up. There’s plenty of other reasons to beat on him.
There’s a thoughtful reddit thread on McBride’s interview with Little Ezra:
reddit.com/r/ezraklein/comments/1lpn4gv/sarah_mcbride_comes_through/
A far better piece goes into McBride’s approach (it’s not all that laudatory but is nuanced and explains why) and brings in a lot of Klein’s “y’all hush up about trans issues” statements recently.
erininthemorning.com/p/what-sarah-mcbride-gets-wrong
Marc
+1 The DEI and immigration related “distract and divide” narratives that some of the establishment/progressive Dems seems like nothing more than a bid to coax the slightly less racist/sexist/xenophobic Trump-friendly voters back into the party tent. Too little, too late. I prefer leaders who express actual flat-out non-negotiable beliefs, let everyone know this is what they’re voting for, and if they lose, so be it. The old order of things is never going to return.
Martin
@Suzanne: Abundance is okay. I think the criticisms of it from the left are a little unfair. They do make some good observations about the political dynamics so there is some useful stuff in there that I think we need to hear, but then seem to fall apart on the practical side of the argument, in part because some of their accounts of why something failed are factually wrong, and in part because they are more motivated to support their argument than to see what might be a much larger problem. They talk of California’s housing crisis being a problem of red tape and excessive regulation, and no, not at the state level. My city has been building housing faster than pretty much any place in the US for the last quarter century and we haven’t run into any notable problems with the state. Yes, the regulation does require additional work, but if you don’t fight it, it’s not that onerous (I’ve participated in our planning commission and had a lot of conversations with our city planners – and they don’t find it to be onerous). The main problem is local governments opposing growth because the voters wanted a city council that opposes growth. That’s not a problem to be solved, that’s how democracy is supposed to work. Which begs the question, why do voters want that when they also want homelessness to be addressed? That’s the real problem to be solved.
That problem seems to be one of how housing got shifted from shelter to investment over the last 40 years, and how California, thanks to Prop 13, became the best place in the country to invest in housing. And there’s an argument that, well, it doesn’t matter if it’s being used as investment, it’ll still be rented, and no, not necessarily. In a strong enough housing market, you can make money without the hassle and risk of renting it. My house has appreciate at better than 7% annually since 2002. That’s S&P 500 performance, and you get that even if the property is empty. Shit, you get that even if there’s no structure on the property at all – empty lot will get you that. Equity gains by CA homeowners over the last decade is on the order of a trillion dollars. Thats a hell of a headwind to propose policy that will lower property values for the benefit of addressing homelessness. Yeah, people want fewer homeless, but not at the expense of their entire retirement nest egg, and that’s really what’s being suggested here, and Abundance doesn’t have an answer to that problem. It just assumes that there’s a market solution here, and no, there simply isn’t. Even my city, building housing as fast as it is (we’re going to grow the city population another 15% by 2030), has risen to some of the highest housing prices in the country – median home price of $1.7M after doubling housing stock since 2008.
The fundamental problem is that housing as shelter is incompatible with housing as investment. You can’t do both. If you want to achieve the former, you have to break the latter. You can do that by dismantling the incentives around housing investment, you can also do that through non-market rate housing. Ideally you’d do both. And because Prop 13 is an anti-wealth tax, one of the few in the country which is why CA has seen median housing prices soar past Hawaii and is now more than double the national average. That too needs to be further weakened (the state has been slowly undermining it, but the core strength is still there).
And yeah, it’s fundamentally an economics book – of course it’s boring.
piratedan
@WaterGirl: affirmative, VA CD 1 methinks
Marc
To hell with the white supremacists, here’s a whole cohort of under 40s out there who have little or no enthusiasm for voting, as they think the Dems believe little differently than the MAGAs when it comes to certain key issues. Quit pussy-footing around, either the Dems have some core beliefs that absolutely they’re willing to lose some wealthy/white support over, or they don’t.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@Marc:
I prefer non-fascists myself.
@Professor Bigfoot:
I do too, which is why I think treating white supremacy and a good economy as two competing ideas is unsustainable.
I guess I would’ve like to see it rephrased it as “Don’t forget while they’re talking about all this stuff, they’re also doing this.” Subtly make it an “and” or “because of” instead of a “but” even if you don’t say it overtly.
Plus it indirectly undercuts the idea that all their racist shit is good for any business but theirs.
@WaterGirl:
And because the other side is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
Not that our side doesn’t have it’s own baggage of that flavor, but it’s generally not a centerpiece of our platform.
tobie
Wow. After seeing the populist pablum from Ossoff yesterday and from Beto today, I really feel like I no longer have a home in the Democratic Party.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Martin:
Abundance is nothing but rebranded Reaganism with liberal PR.
Jonathan Chait said in the Atlantic, in effect the quiet parts out loud, that abundance is about defeating liberals and remaking the Dem Party as a libertarian, Never Trump Republican Party so let’s stop pretending it’s anything but that.
Patrick Condon’s work is something everyone should read:
planningreport.com/2022/03/07/patrick-condon-should-cities-now-mandate-affordability-inclusionary-zo…
48hills.org/2024/09/vancouver-study-shows-how-the-yimby-narrative-has-failed-in-real-time/
planningreport.com/2024/06/07/book-review-broken-city-land-speculation-inequality-and-urban-crisis-s…
It lays out what you’ve seen play out in real time.
Jay
Emptywheel notes that Todd Blanche’s (HairFurour’s former “personal” lawyer) rush to get the Grand Jury files released, before Ghislane Maxwell has exhausted the appeals process, could result in a mistrial, and that may be the “plan”.
emptywheel.net/2025/07/20/why-is-todd-blanche-risking-the-conviction-of-a-sex-trafficker-rather-than…
Spanky
I don’t believe I’ve seen it mentioned in our press that men first landed on the moon on this day in 1969.
Sic transit, and all that shit.
tobie
@tobie: In Oct 2024, the Center for American Progress published this info on wage growth during Biden’s Presidency.
Populists convinced the country that they were suffering. It was the most effective disinfo campaign I have ever seen. Globalists, bankers, financiers are code for Joos who were hurting the good common folk. I guess the myth of Jewish bloodsuckers will never die. Fuck Beto. If his views are the party’s, I am done.
laura
Well I call bullshit on Beto’s opinion that Democrats didn’t address immigration reform ‘when they could have’ because I wasn’t born yesterday. Speaker John Boehner not only refused to bring an immigration reform bill to the house floor and republicans sued Obama for the executive orders he issued on immigration. Similarly, Republican James Lankford was the point person for a bipartisan immigration reform bill in the very recent past that was sunk to the bottom of the Marianas trench on orders from presidential candidate Donald Trump. But up jumps Beto to chide and criticize Democrats for the absence of a workable framework for immigration, asylum and border enforcement. And, as typical from a white male, a call to welcome white racists back into the fold. Fuck him and fuck that noise.
The future for Democratic voters lies in the deep south, increasing voter registration among young people of color. Chase the elusive white whale and jettison the party’s actual core base voters is to guarantee electoral failure unless and until the majority of white people stop insisting on the perpetuating and preserving white (male) superiority.
Marc
@Martin:
This assumes the majority of the voters want homelessness to be addressed rather than simply go someplace else. They neither want to pay for affordable housing nor see those people on the street every day. Think of all those wealthy white towns where they (illegally) refuse to build any affordable housing at all, for their own special reasons.
There have been many attempts to build non-market rate housing in my CA city and many others. It doesn’t work well as it’s simply too expensive to build anything here, not just because of land prices. When construction costs for basic housing are around $500 per sq ft, you can’t afford to build too many units without raising taxes, which can’t easily be done ’cause California.
zhena gogolia
@tobie: I don’t think O’Rourke represents the party. We represent the party.
ETA: They’re all trying to be elected “leader/savior” and failing. We have to save ourselves.
zhena gogolia
@laura: I’m with you.
Suzanne
@Martin:
I spent years of my career taking projects (healthcare and senior housing) through various City and Town Councils. Most of them heavily Republican. You are bang-on here. Those governments oppose growth because their constituents oppose growth. And they oppose growth, usually, because they only want more rich white neighbors. They want the “cute” bakery and not a Chinese restaurant. They don’t want low-income seniors down the street, because they don’t want to see them smoking on the patio. They oppose apartments on empty lots on major thoroughfares because scary brown people rent them and they don’t want those kids in their schools.
They want homelessness addressed in the sense that they don’t want to see it. That doesn’t mean they want to address it in a humane manner, they don’t want to devote their resources to it.
I spent a couple of years reading a lot of nonfiction, and I knew that 2025 would be emotionally taxing, so I promised myself that this year is all fiction. Mostly mysteries and spy novels so far. It’s restoring.
schrodingers_cat
@tobie:I share your frustration. FWIW. You are not alone in seeing this turn to antisemitism in leftwing spaces.
Another Scott
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: Politics, IMHO, is many things simultaneously:
These days, it’s a little different for 47 and the other team:
In that environment, Pelosi’s mantra of “just win baby” is the path forward. “Campaign in poetry”, and all the rest. The GQP’s tactics are necessarily different than ours, because they have a brain-damaged, fascist, criminal felon at the top of the party.
If winning in pinkish areas means talking of compromise with GQPers or talking about fixing immigration, then that’s what needs to be done. If talking up the benefits of Socialism is what it takes to win in Berkeley or NYC, then that’s what needs to be done. We’re a big complicated country with a big complicated electorate.
Nothing good will happen until the Democrats have power again, and that means different finding ways to win in different states and districts.
[/Lt-Obvious]
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: @laura: Agreed. See my comment above. I have followed this issue closely since it directly impacted my life. So for over 2 decades.
@laura: How do you like your Albrecht Durer pens and pencils?
Martin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’m disinclined as a cis het white male to argue that the highest elected openly trans politician is wrong on trans issues. I’m open to the idea that she may be, but she has also navigated a space that nobody prior to her has, and that confers lessons that you can’t achieve any other way.
As much as I am inclined toward the position of ‘this is obviously the space we’re going to land on, let’s just jump straight there’, none of the things in my career that involved political working actually worked that way. They were all incremental, sometimes with some backsliding. I got to understand some of those dynamics while also failing to understand others. I never considered the periods of backsliding (disappointing as they were) as appeasement, because it was always coalition building. I had lost people I needed to succeed at the larger project and I needed to get them back. The backsliding was always temporary because I understood the need for it and stayed in the larger fight.
The goal is not high school sports. The goal is much larger than that, and when you get that larger goal, high school sports comes along for free. Once we got the general public to not see gay people as deviants (that was the larger goal) all of the other pieces steadily fell into place (with some still to do).
Ramalama
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I know it’s different but in Colorado in the 90s, I won a scholarship from a drag (queen) organization. I was in college then.
I was not in drag, but was a member of whatever the queer society was then, and this organization wanted to give a bit of support to students.
The mayor of Denver was at the ball where I and two others received our awards. We had to walk the gangplank (runway), which terrified the shite out of me. Several state senators were there. About 700 people in total.
A few years earlier, Colorado had passed a really shitty anti-gay amendment.
My few years there was a little like living on planet Pluto. Is it a planet or are you just in outerspace???@(EW#E
Suzanne
@Marc:
Yes this. It’s the LA LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOUUUUUUUU theory of politics.
Marc
@TurnItOffAndOnAgain: I prefer non-fascists myself.
You have to be willing to state you’re non-fascist in the first place if that’s going to matter, I note that there are more than a few Dem politicians who are unwilling to let the f-word escape their lips, as they think it’s a turn-off for white voters.
WaterGirl
@tobie: Can you say more?
What did Ossoff say that you described as populist pablum?
laura
@schrodingers_cat: so we are the non-Johnny unbeatables.
OMG, those pencils and pens are fabulous! The creaminess, the deep pigments, the shades that are created with the brush of water. I’m loving them seperately and together.
Martin
@Suzanne: I thought even his interview with Ta-Nehisi was good because even though it was more confrontational, he gave Ta-Nehisi room to make his argument and I thought he made it stronger as a result. I don’t presume that was Ezras goal, but giving Coates room to make his case produced a good result, IMO.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Martin:
I’m not one to really pull apart her interview either other than to observe she was providing Klein with material for his “hush on the trans issues” talking points.
The link to Reed’s piece was to provide a trans critique of McBride’s positions, at least as stated in the interview.
tobie
@schrodingers_cat: I appreciate the allyship. There are many times I have walked away from BJ and that time is coming again. Not a day goes without attacks now on Jews in the diaspora. Just this weekend, a man was attacked on a Dublin bus after helping pay the fare of a man who suddenly realized the person helping him was a Jew. Yeshiva students were attacked with a knife in Lucerne by a man yelling pro-Palestinian slogans. And in London, a woman walked into a kosher deli in London and threw things at the people while yelling at them about committing genocide in Gaza. What are diaspora Jews supposed to do? Move to Israel? Is that what folks want?
tobie
@WaterGirl: Oh, the usual, that the good hardworking folk are being drained by bloodsuckers. Both parties are beholden to their donors and don’t stand up for the people. He can do better. He didn’t.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ramalama:
The anti-gay amendment back then was over reach. I was at CU-Boulder from 79-85 and the Gay Rights group on campus had a first floor office with a window facing outside. It was constantly being broken so that by 1980, campus officials made them move downstairs. So yeah, the state’s different now and not unlike the anti-immigrant initiative in CA, it brought up longer term change in response to the over reach.
CO’s “blueness” is pale and the result of the mass of entitled white transplants that have flocked here over the last decade. They’re an updated version of the “socially librul/fiscally conservative” person who is most likely their parent(s) back in some lily white burb.
But, that “socially librul” part definitely shows with gay/trans rights and CO politicians are following a general desire of constituents.
Suzanne
@Martin: Agree w/r/t the Coates interview. Again, I think most of his interviews are good and he gives the guests time to be thoughtful.
As for McBride, she is obviously a deeply pragmatic person in her politics as well as her personality. She is clearly dedicated foremost to coalition-building. Her critics have a lot of valid points, but — when putting my strategy hat on — I’d submit that the best path forward is to elect more trans legislators.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@Another Scott: Does that contradict what I wrote?
We are gonna get areas that are more financially focused, more socially focused, and vice verse. But in areas where there isn’t one clear preference or where we’ve got people who’ve got the poisonous little parasite in their brains that whispers a candidate has to dump one to be for the other, some creative reframing might help.
The idea that’s it’s either or has helped screw us; finding a way to combat that feels like a good idea.
And just to clarify, I’d want, before anything else, such a thing be looked into before it’s tried in the field to the full hilt
@Marc:
Or you can look at their policies. Things they’ve signed off on in the past. That’s usually a pretty big indicator; a bigger one than things any politician says.
Fair Economist
@Martin:
I don’t see why. It’s basically a “failure of the commons” issues. Every municipality wants housing built – but only elsewhere. So almost none gets built (with a few exceptions like Irvine), which is a horribly undesirable result. As an state, overall, CA is now YIMBY-ish. The solution is to have housing and zoning issues decided on a much higher level than municipality.
I don’t think it’s an accident that Japan, the country that has done best on housing affordability over the last 30 years, does zoning on a national level.
tobie
@zhena gogolia: I wonder how happy Abigail Spanberger is about O’Rourke’s speech. He was hosted by Blue Virginia.
Marc
That night I was 15 and riding on the Santa Fe El Capitan (the non-sleeper portion of the Super Chief) from LA to Chicago on the way home from a long planned family trip. I was despondent, as I’d been following the stuff closely for years and there were no TVs or radios available. My Dad didn’t say anything, some critical components that he designed would be coming into play as well. So about an hour before the landing, he took me on a walk, and we ended up in the crew car, listening to the landing on a shortwave radio. I can still hear the cheering when it touched down.
Jay
bsky.app/profile/darthputinkgb.bsky.social/post/3luf2l435p22g
Fair Economist
@tobie:
Yes, that’s the goal of the RW Israelis committing the genocide in Gaza. Their hope, which is being fulfulled, is that their heinous crimes in Gaza will drive revenge actions on Jews everywhere, regardless of their personal stance on the genocide. The RW Israelis have a longstanding policy of trying to make it impossible for Jews to live elsewhere, to the point of actually bombing Jews themselves.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My dad was mentioned he bough this house for $35K in 1973 and it was valued at $150K by 1977. So, that’s a x5 increase in value at a time when the Stock-market was flat.
tobie
@Fair Economist: Thank you so much for crystallizing something I’ve suspected for quite some time. According to leftwing populists like yourself, who view the world in binary terms, responsibility only lies with one side. Israelis are responsible for any crimes committed against Jews in the diaspora. No one else has agency. If a person attacks a Jewish person or institution in the west, they are not responsible for their acts. They have been forced to do so by Israel. Ever hear of victim blaming?
Glory b
@Marc: As I think has been pointed out here before, Dems haven’t won a majority of white voters since the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, in 1967.
That plus the Supreme Court gutting section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, allowing oppressive voting restrictions against black voters are what brought us where we are today.
Let’s not get that twisted.
Jackie
@Spanky:
Ruckus
This has been a country about freedom, reality of the level of freedom that works, using the least amount of control necessary so this doesn’t turn into anything other than what it was supposed to be when it started.
But money buys everything, and it’s more about the amount required than anything else. Our economy has been pretty good for a very long time, and sure it’s had it’s moments, all economies do. Our form of government is supposed to surpass money as the controlling factor. However, given how our economy has been working for the last decade or 4, wealthy people are still in power and we’ve seen people that should never be in charge of doodly squat – like the current highest office occupant, because they will fuck up doodly squat if given any chance at all. And because it seems that that current high office holder is aging out we are likely in worse shape than some believe. I’m not far behind his narcissistic ass in age and have known a number of humans that haven’t gotten this far. What I want to do is live as long as possible and do not much more than that. I’ve owned 2 businesses and worked in other jobs and professional sports and have seen more than my share of pompous, arrogant jackasses before this. But this one is in charge of a country. Now likely very few to none of us here voted for this jackass, but it only takes a majority of voters to elect a pompous, arrogant jackass. Hell we’ve done it twice in one decade. I have no idea why – other than money talks, and this one is supposed to be rich. Oh and maybe a not insignificant number of citizens really does not want to be part of an actual democracy. They seem to want an aristocracy. Is it because wealthy people must know more – they are wealthy? I have zero idea what people see in him – other than his bank account is supposed to be a lot larger than theirs, so he must know something – right?
Fair Economist
@tobie: I never said diaspora Jews are responsible for the Gaza genocide because, excepting a very few wealthy funders of Israeli RW politics, they’re not.
The problem is that the Israeli rightwingers have managed get a most people to believe that criticizing Israeli policy is “anti-Semitic”. It’s a nonsense claim. Just like with any group, there are good Jews and bad Jews. The horrible crimes committed against Jews in pogroms over history are no reason to let a criminal off just because they’re Jewish. Heck, it’s not even fair to attack anybody for being Isreali, because there are a lot of Israelis bitterly opposed to the current genocide. They’re just not running the government.
zhena gogolia
@tobie: Yeah, this is really insane.
Ruckus
@Jackie:
He has zero idea how to move on, to get to the point, because he has zero idea what the real point is. All he knows is EGO. His oversized, overly pompous, overly arrogant EGO.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
For some it’s both.
tobie
@Fair Economist: This is not what I claimed. I said you were arguing that the people who committed attacks against diaspora Jews were not responsible those acts. Israel was. Would you blame Turkey or Russia for attacks against Russian-Americans or Turkish Americans? Both nations can be credibly accused of genocide.
Another Scott
@tobie:
“hosted”?
The host seemed to be Beto’s Powered By People outfit. He’s in Baltimore today and will be in Milwaukee on August 2.
He’s continuing to walk the talk.
Lowkell of BlueViriginia.US is doing the thankless job of trying to keep Virginia Democrats informed and engaged. He’s indefatigable, thankfully.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ksmiami
@tobie: ffs. As someone with a fair amount of Jewish heritage, the support for Netanyahu has backfired on the tribe. Even among long standing supporters of Israel. If Israelis want to live in a Rt wing religious violent country, well brace for impact
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
We are like all animals – we have a beginning, a middle and an end. That middle part is/can be a distance and sometimes isn’t but still we can have a decent life if we aren’t totally pompous, arrogant and greedy, three characteristics that are as frequent as the sun coming up. IOW we’ve all very likely met someone whose life is defined by those 3 characteristics. I have. And I’m pretty sure I don’t have enough fingers to count them all. But I did work in professional sports and while most of the folks I met didn’t meet the criteria above, a few did. We may not all see them on a regular basis but they are out there and always will be in humanity.
Ksmiami
@tobie: all violence against innocent people is bad. Terrorism is bad. Netanyahu has sealed Israel’s fate to be a pariah nation
tobie
@Another Scott: Beto’s unemployed. He’s got nothing else to do. He wants to be relevant and yet he manages to alienate a portion of the Dem base every time he speaks. I will never forget this ponderous statement from him on the PodSaveAmerica podcast.
tobie
@Ksmiami: WTF does this have to do with attacks on diaspora Jews? Are you saying diners at kosher restaurants in NY, or Philadrlphia, or London are fair game?
Marc
I think you believe this, along with others, and I can be persuaded. We have a bunch of states with gerrymandered districts. Some of those districts were changed before the ’24 election. What was the net ’24 GOP pickup in congressional districts and electoral votes from the gutting of the VRA and actual vote suppression? Was it sufficient to alter the outcome of any specific race?
Baud
@Ksmiami:
This is the way.
I think tobie is right. Too often for my taste, people utter “Netanyahu” too quickly to events that are happening outside Israel and Gaza.
And since people are addicted to quotas, we’ve also too often failed innocent Muslims, Palestinians, Iranians, etc., who are targeted because they share some identity with bad people in the Middle East.
lowtechcyclist
@tobie:
If all it takes is two guys, no matter what their standing, to chase you out of the party, it raises* the question of whether you were one in the first place.
*Note, unrelated to this comment, to those who need it: that’s raises, not begs. Begging the question is a kind of logical fallacy.
schrodingers_cat
This.
Marc
@tobie: Just a reminder that not too long ago every Black leader and politician was forced to disown the Nation of Islam when they spoke in public (someone tried to get me to do it at work once, I said GFY). Maybe it’s time for Jewish leaders and politicians to start disavowing the state of Israel and its policies.
Baud
@Marc:
Making black leaders do that was kind of racist. Not a good example to follow.
Marc
@Baud: I agree, but it happened because the Dems were trying to keep everyone in the Big Tent. I guess they don’t care this time.
Baud
@Marc:
I have no idea what that means. Black people were subject to racist Jim Crow too, but that doesn’t become a model to apply to other groups.
wmd
Call the volunteer fire department – the barn is on fire.
helluva speech.
Fair Economist
@tobie:
Nobody actually *says* that. Netanyahu commits genocide in Gaza; lots of people work very hard to (falsely) equate Jews with the Israeli government, and occasional nutjobs fill in the implied blank and conclude attacking somebody wearing a yarmulke in a restaurant is attacking the criminals in the Israeli government. And Netanyahu manages to kill Palestinian and endanger diaspora Jews at the same time.
tobie
@lowtechcyclist: I have given more money and time to Democratic campaigns than I can possibly count. I am still in the party because immigration is an important issue for me, as is education, science, equal opportunity, public investments, democracy, etc. But I have little patience for the new strategy of scapegoating that Ossoff and O’Rourke were exemplifying–not introducing–in their speeches this weekend. Income inequality is complex problem that will require complex policy solutions. I don’t need a bogeyman. I want answers about how problems can be fixed.
Ruckus
@Martin:
I believe there is some more to it than what you said but it is likely minor to the bigger picture. I’ve lived on both coasts and in the middle. I’ve lived in both northern and southern CA and I say one reason people want to live here is the weather. Sure it’s hot in SoCal in the summer but then it’s hot in a lot of places in the summer. And yes it can be cool/cold in winter but where most people live it doesn’t snow or it does only very rarely. (It’s snowed in populated SoCal once in my life – and I was born here a fair while ago in human terms.)
And I do agree with your housing as shelter and housing as an investment. Now I’ve “owned,” lived in a home that we got to pick the model to be built in SoCal, with a view of Catalina and most of LA county and the price was reasonable. And we sold it at a profit a few years later. I don’t know housing prices now, here in SoCal and I don’t see a lot of sales signs going up, but I’d bet it isn’t cheap. I was born here long enough ago that the population of LA County has well over doubled in my lifetime.
Marc
@Baud: OK, I acknowledge I’m not great with words. But if the dominant culture (say white people) decide a designated cultural grouping (say black people) supports an organization or belief that they find distasteful (say the NOI), then they have no issue with trying to force said grouping to repudiate such beliefs.
We have a Democratic political leadership that gives the state of Israel all of the weapons it wants when in power and throws anyone under the bus who even questions whether that makes sense.
So now we’re sitting there watching said state committing inarguable crimes against humanity and engaging in regional war, and we’re not hearing much from anyone outside of the usual suspects. Let’s not make believe there will be no blow-back against US Jews, there will be. You can’t provide unquestioned support then complain about pushback.
Baud
@Marc:
I can predict “blow back” against the Jews just like I can predict “blow back” against immigrants because of immigration. That doesn’t mean I’m going to say the blow back is ok.
Marc
@Baud: I have been dealing with ‘blow back’ against blacks my entire life. I never said it was OK. What I said is don’t be surprised that it happens, if no one who matters is willing to point out something very obviously wrong is happening that we all are paying for.
Baud
@Marc:
I’m not surprised by it. I’m not surprised by a lot of awful things. Including things we call out.
Eolirin
@Baud: Tobie is twisting what Fair Economist said to mean something he didn’t say.
Anyone committing violence against a Jew is responsible for committing that violence. But it is also, simultaneously, true that Israel’s governnent’s actions are often done with an intent of making it less safe to be Jewish elsewhere in the world.
It’s not like this outcome wasn’t predictable. At the very start of this conflict I predicted that the way Israel was acting would enable antisemitic lunatics to take more and more extreme actions. And here we fucking are. Israel’s government is responsible for the actions of itself and the consequences of those actions make every last one of us as Jews even less safe.
None of these things happen in a vacuum. Netanyahu hasn’t created antisemitic people willing to bring violence to us, but he has acted as an accelerant, and turned existing sparks into a wildfire.
We cannot talk about these things without a recognition of how intensely irresponsible his government has been, and how damaging it’s been to the standing of all Jews everywhere and how much of a threat it is to the diaspora. And the reason why it is all those things is because of the backdrop of global and real antisemitism which conflates Israel with Jews, and which the Israeli right wing themselves engage in on a regular basis. Which holds every Jew responsible for the actions of any Jew.
But that’s the environment we exist in. We can’t pretend it doesn’t work that way just because it shouldn’t.
This is why I said ages ago we needed to center the Palestinians. If we can’t make common cause with them, the narrative of Jew as oppressor will take hold, driven by existing antisemitic impulses. And then there will be nothing to keep us safe anywhere. The worse Israel’s treatment of Palestinians becomes, the easier and easier that’ll be to do, and the more and more at risk we’ll be.
Failing to resolve the humanitarian crises in Gaza and the West Bank, failing to hold Israel’s government to account for its actions, will likely end us. Israel is becoming an existential threat to us as a people.
Recognizing this does not diminish the culpability of the people carrying out attacks. But to treat these circumstances as irrelevant to the increase in anger, in targeting, in violence, is insane. And it is well documented that things like these are done as a deliberate tactic on the part of the Israeli right for politicial reasons. Just like it’s well documented that Netanyahu has boosted Hamas and taken advantage of their terrorist attacks as a way to maintain politicial power.
No one is going to come and save us from this dynamic. What few allies we have tend to be wedded to Israel, which is not helpful when we need to create space between us and the genocide they’re engaging in.
Ramona
@Professor Bigfoot: Amen! It’s so easy for many to imagine they are “not racist” and claim that they “don’t see color” (harumph) but what’s needed is for the majority of people to be firmly ANTI-RACIST to drive out centuries of anti-Black sentiment.
The Audacity of Krope
@Ramona: “Not racist” is not a thing when society is arranged in a racist way.
The Audacity of Krope
@Eolirin: I fully endorse this statement.
Marc
Netanyahu made a deal with the devil, 10/7 was the devil taking his due. Not at all surprising to me. I agree with your statement.
Baud
@Eolirin:
If an innocent Jewish person is attacked in the US, I’m not going to start talking about Netanyahu’s evil, just as I wouldn’t start talkimg about Hamas’s evil when an innocent Palestinian is attacked in the US. I’m going to call the attack wrong.
That doesn’t mean avoiding trying to address the broader problem outside that context. But foreign policy now belongs to Trump, so it’s really his decision how to handle it.
I get that a lot of people, including a lot of Dems, won’t follow my example.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: I get what you’re saying, but in some conversations sometimes, the feedback loop bears mentioning. I would personally say the time to raise both in the same context is when you’re talking about either problem generally as opposed to a particular instance described by either situation. That’s just me, though.
Eolirin
@Baud: The comment that was being responded to was that Netanyahu was deliberately creating the conditions to increase the volume of such attacks. Bringing that up is valid, since the comment it was responding to was about that uptick.
Do we stop pushing back on Republicans trying to gin up KungFlu as a way to create a broader permission structure to commit violence against asians so we can focus on the wrongness of the specific attacks that happen? They’re all part of a fabric. They can both be wrong at the same time without one taking away from the other
And I’ll note, as a Jew, I view condemnation of Netanyahu’s actions as an existential and moral imperative. Because we really can’t allow that association to stand as a people if we want to survive.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
It’s a delicate situation, even without the presence of bad faith actors, of which there are plenty on this issue.
Baud
@Eolirin:
It’s a question of timing. When the response when hearing about an attack sounds like “Yes, but…,” it’s not helpful.
Marc
@Baud: I talk about the Democrats as many seem to have a very hard time actually standing for much of anything these days aside from not being MAGA. They need to express beliefs on this and many other subjects, one way or another. When someone does express beliefs that are unacceptable to the establishment Dems (like suggesting holding Israel to account), they attack. The cost in votes should not be a factor, as the way they’re going they’ll lose in ’26. This is not rocket science, believe in something damnit, I’m tired of wonks and consultants.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: True as that may be, one side’s bad faith actors seem to have the most sway in our powerful institutions and count among themselves an inexplicably high number of the most backwards ass Christians you will ever meet.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Israel supporters have a lot more political power in the U.S. I don’t really care when it comes to how I react to innocent victims of individual attacks.
People haven’t been attacking right wing Christians who support Israel unabashedly.
Ramona
@Martin: Your analyses always stretch my mind open. I have one nit though: the expression “begging the question” is an age-old term for the logical fallacy whereby the proposition one aims to prove true is assumed true in one’s argument, i.e. circular reasoning. I think this meaning of the expression as the logical fallacy of using circular reasoning is useful as “You beg the question” is a short sentence. I’d much rather hear people say, “this raises the question”.
The Audacity of Krope
Imagine the uproar. They’ve already been crying victim since time immemorial.
Eolirin
@Baud: And I find bringing up the uptick we’re seeing in antisemitic violence without condemning Netanyahu as tone deaf in a way that furthers the dynamic I’m describing.
That uptick is so intensely obvious in its origin that we need to avoid noticing a genocide to not see it. Bringing it up that way signals that the genocide doesn’t matter as much as Jewish lives.
I desperately wish that that wasn’t the case. There are so many things about that sentence that are profoundly unfair and it’s logic is an antisemitic logic. But it is how many many people will view the dynamic that exists. It is dangerous to let stand.
Ramona
@Suzanne: The New Republic or The American Prospect (can’t remember which) has a good criticism of “Abundance.” It really does sound like Reaganism cut-regulation warmed over.
Baud
@Eolirin:
Then we disagree.
tobie
@Eolirin: You should really review the exchange before weighing in. I pointed to three attacks on Jews in the diaspora this weekend. Fair Economist responded by saying that the Israeli rightwing govt was responsible for the attacks. That’s the back story. I didn’t twist anyone’s word.
This statement from you is A-grade bullshit:
Israel’s actions may have the effect of riling up people so much that they take it out on the Jews in their community but this is not the intent of the action. I consider your statement to be the modern-day equivalent of blood libel. Scurrilous doesn’t begin to describe it.
Ruckus
@Baud:
There may not even be enough money to pay them.
People that want everything, who think they “deserve” everything, are wrong. Maybe not in other government structures but not in a democracy. Now look around many other forms of government and tell me how well they do as a oligarchy, one that places itself higher than any of the people that do the day to day work of a modern economy. Because there are a lot of jobs that didn’t used to exist or existed in smaller percentages because other forms of work took a lot of humans to accomplish and no longer do. This world is not the same one I was born into and a lot of olds can say that. And the point is that it is better in many ways, and yes it hasn’t changed much in some ways. We have our 47th president now. 47 men have held that office – OK 46 men and one pompous arrogant asshole have held it, hold it. (Does it seem like maybe it’s possible that maybe one woman might be able to do the job? Out of the millions that are citizens? Just a thought. There’s got to be at least one better than shitforbrains. I mean it CAN’T BE THAT DIFFICULT.)
Baud
@Ruckus:
And the price always goes up.
Gloria DryGarden
@Another Scott: finding different ways to win in
different districts and states.
and everything else you said.
so be it.
Gloria DryGarden
@Marc: how about if we leaned into both ? Win, baby + believe in something.
it’s awkward when one’s social values conflict with one’s economic survival, or in some cases, economic benefit.
fir some people it’s simply survival, survival this month, for others, it’s benefit, investment, retirement, growth. If we’re between a Rick and a hard place, we need a plan, baby.
I didn’t read everything deeply, but I agree that divide and separate to overpower is a thing. Even when laborers were first separated by white and black, to create racism, and keep workers from rising up, it was all about winning for the powerful, and oppressing others by dividing them and putting them against each other.
I still vote for democrats to win, even when their policies and aims are not good enough.
The Audacity of Krope
Is this where Morty comes in?
Fair Economist
I didn’t bring up antisemetic violence, Tobie did. My response to antisemetic violence is just to condemn it. If somebody tries to link it to Gaza, (either the perpetrator, or somebody else) I point out that dispora Jews aren’t the Israeli government, usually *oppose* the Gaza genocide, and are almost never responsible for it.
I oppose both killing people in Philadelphia diners and starving children in Gaza. I don’t see how either stance could reasonably be controversial.
tobie
@Fair Economist:
Good. I’m glad we can finally agree on something. I’d like Israel to withdraw from Gaza and do nothing but make huge food deliveries around the clock. I’d like some organization–not Hamas, not the UN–to be in charge of distributing the food. The people there need it and they need the bombings to stop.
I wasn’t in a dialogue with you when I first talked about what happened in various places this past weekend. You responded to say that Israel was doing whatever it could deliberately to endanger diaspora Jews. FWIW, I don’t think Israel is thinking at all about diaspora Jews when thinking about settlements in the West Bank or its campaign in Gaza. What motivates both is Netanyahu’s need to placate Ben Gvir, so he can keep enough of his coalition together to remain PM and avoid going to prison. That’s the only thing that matters to him.
Fair Economist
@tobie: The Israeli government has a history of reprehensible acts to make Jews migrate to Israel.
Fair Economist
@tobie: Well, we do agree on what should happen in Gaza – I’d be pleased with your solution. And we also agree that the Israeli government’s crimes in Gaza are not a acceptable excuse for attack on diaspora Jews.
Ramona
@Jay: An injured ear, hmmm? History seems to rhyme in trivial ways as well…
LAC
@laura: 💯🙌🏾🤸🏾♂️
Thank you for saying this. It’s Infuriating that this pontificating by Beto is considered a game plan. A revisionist storyline (those darn dems!), punctuated with “C’mon gang! let’s reach out again to those squishy bigots!” Andy Hardy pitch. How much further back in the bus would you like people looking like me to go to make room for them? Should I just hang out the window?
Ramona
@Fair Economist: Thanks for the Wikipedia link. The article cites the trial conducted by the Iraqi authorities of two Iraqi Jews as the main source of the idea that the bombers were Jewish but the doubt introduced by the fact that the Iraqi government then was overtly anti-Jewish, I don’t want to say anti-Semitic because Arabs are also a Semitic people, renders me unable to conclude unambiguously that the bombers were necessarily Jewish.
However, I find it plausible that RW Israelis would like diaspora Jews to find life outside Israel uncomfortable enough that they resettle in Israel.
Ramona
@The Audacity of Krope: Exactly!
Martin
I disagree with the ‘they don’t want to see it’ to some degree. I think this community would agree that we do want to see it properly addressed. We are not complete outliers.
I suspect there is a lot of variation in the sentiment. The last 5 people I saw standing on the median asking for money were white millennial women that looked more like PTA moms than the person you would stereotype as homeless. I’ve talked to my friends about it and we all people we know who are relatively high earners that are technically homeless – they’re living in an RV, they’re in a residential motel because they can’t get a lease, etc. There is surely some variation in the sentiment simply due to the perception of who is homeless. There’s been almost no opposition in my city to construction of housing, of low income housing, of shelters, and the like. And I know we’re not unique in that regard, we’re not the only city building, providing shelters and low income housing but people are getting priced out faster than we can build – especially when everything we build gets comped to the market, rather than cost.
dnfree
@Professor Bigfoot: I fear you are correct. All the accusations of “reverse racism” and denials that systemic racism doesn’t exist supports your fear.