I mean, it seems like a bad idea to stiff hundreds of thousands of your own voters and turn them against you but what do I know
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:28 AM
===
Plus, is “I saw a headline” really the analysis we want from top political leaders?
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 11:42 AM
===
Also I think the reality is OMB and the house are doubling down on this "We're going to try and ruin people's lives to force the democraps to the table" and it's kind of like holding a gun to your own foot and telling the person across from you that you'll do it.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:32 AM
===
Q: Why do you say some federal workers should not get their backpay?
TRUMP: Well, you're gonna have to figure that out. Ask the Democrats— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) October 7, 2025 at 12:25 PM
===
Wow — Trump & Russell Vought are trying to stiff furloughed federal workers and not give them back pay for the shutdown… but Speaker Johnson’s own website says they are legally entitled to back pay when the government reopens. 🤔
www.axios.com/2025/10/07/t…— The Tennessee Holler (@thetnholler.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:25 AM
===
I'm not sure how this "dramatically escalates pressure on Democrats to end the shutdown". It seems to me that it dramatically escalates the fallout of any extended shutdown on "Trump's economy".
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 9:47 AM
===
I think we should let them cook on this "We'll just ruin everyone's lives!" angle. It's a political winner I'm sure.
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:34 AM
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"Congresswoman Greene" ooooooooo they're getting testy
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:53 AM
===
A summary of the current GOP plan on the shutdown:
1.) We are actually the stewards of healthcare (ignore your premiums, plez)
2.) If the democraps don't open government, we'll ruin our own voters lives.
3.) *vague heavy breathing sounds from Stephen Miller's office*— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:54 AM
===
I mean, I've got to say, the insane thing about all of this is that I didn't think the GOP could have -less- of a plan than they did on previous shutdowns.
TURNS OUT I WAS WRONG— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) October 7, 2025 at 10:58 AM
M31
correction: assumes testes not in evidence
oh wait, testy
iKropoclast
No backpay? Every time I think they can’t go any lower…
But the weird semantical arguments about plain English are very on-brand for Republicans
ETA: I can no longer read that name “Vought” without thinking of the megacorp that the villains of The Boys are primarily organized around.
Percysowner
Slate had a fun column today How Does He Do It? Ross Douthat is the one conservative liberals will actually listen to. I asked him how he pulls it off. To say the commenters are not enamored with Ross is putting it mildly. Honestly I have no idea how Ross Douthat is so respected by media in general.
Old School
The “legal analysts” seem to be in the Trump administration:
scav
Are we being run like a modern business yet? Wage theft? check. Vaporware? Check. Shrinkflation? Check. . . . .
Jeffro
arsonists only know how to do one thing, right?
maybe if we do this whole routine another eighty times, the country will wise up and stop giving MAGAts the keys
(but I won’t hold my breath)
Scout211
Full text .pdf
ETA: who was president in 2019? Hmmm.
Hint:
dmsilev
Congresswoman Greene is closer to accurate than the Speaker. I know that Johnson is basically an omni-liar, but even still that’s impressive in its own way.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Jeffro: I’ve seen this a few times across a few different places, so I can’t attribute it, but I’ve seen it said that “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do are doomed to sit on the sidelines and watch.”
The thing that sucks for me is there is no escape plan. I don’t get to run to another country. I just get to watch as people who put their hands on the burning-hot stove decide that their genitals are tough enough to take it.
p.a.
@Percysowner: Simple: they have to find someone. Have to maintain “balance.”
Ishiyama
Another demand to put in the legislative hopper. No deal without including explicit language for back pay, and rejecting all layoffs.
Ruckus
They are not working in reality. It’s like 7 yr old kids playing president.
Except if it actually was random 7 yr olds, they might actually do a better job.
l doubt that they could do worse.
TONYG
President Russell Vought has been dreaming for decades of destroying the federal government (with the exception of the military and ICE). Old man Trump’s dementia is now at the point at which he literally has no idea what’s going on.
Barbara
MMG”s adult children rely on ACA coverage. Who knew we would have something in common. The rates themselves are fixed as of September 30 because of the approval process. Only reinstating the subsidies will help at this point, although doing that will also cost more because the expected loss of healthier risks has been priced in to premiums. These people are so fucking stupid.
iKropoclast
Intellectual consistency could be an answer to that question. The sense that someone is not just saying what they need to win an argument, but coming from sincerely held beliefs.
It matters.
And I’ll even agree, Douthat hasn’t earned immediate dismissal the way so many of his peers have.
rikyrah
NO BACK PAY?
While Congress is getting paid during a shutdown?
GET THEE ENTIRE PHUCK OUTTA HERE
bbleh
It really is amazing, not only how bad their messaging has been, but how confused, as they bounce madly from doubling-down on one bad message to dropping it and rolling out a new bad message.
Please please please let the Democrats — the leadership (such as it is) and the rest of them too — remember the admonition never to interrupt your opponent when he’s making a mistake (or in this case, a series of them). They’ve done very well so far — pounding on healthcare consistently and adding a few secondary themes to keep it spicy for the media-entertainment complex. Please please let it continue!
Scout211
They can’t re-interpret the law, but they will try. But first, they delete all references to the law in their shutdown guidance documents.
More details:
. . .
Ruckus
We have a party that wants ultimate power.
Except that they seem to have that now and haven’t got one damn clue as to what the hell they are doing. Or not doing. They don’t even know how in the hell to accomplish nothing correctly. I wish they’d just go and screw themselves and leave the rest of us out of it.
debit
@Ruckus: I approve of the 7 year old concept. The Pony For Everyone lobby would totally succeed.
Deputinize America
@dmsilev:
Goddamnit – you have me thinking kind thoughts about MGT.
You suck, LOL.
M31
@Ruckus: seriously, the random-7-year-old making the rules would be SO MUCH BETTER
1) pixie stix are now a vegetable
2) bedtime is outlawed
3) the you’re not my real dad act of 2025
Professor Bigfoot
@bbleh: Schumer and Jeffries seldom get credit for keeping their caucuses together and on message.
Many people don’t understand the different positions of the House Minority Leader and a State Governor like the Great Khan.
The Great Khan and Governor Hollywood have more leverage and they and their fellow Dem governors are using it.
dm
So, what will it take for state officials to start apprehending ICE who kick in doors without a warrant (burglary), point weapons at people without probable cause (assault), push people to the ground (battery), detaining people without warrants (kidnapping)?
I suppose you do that, and maybe it serves an insurrection, but….
WaterGirl
Holy cow, I completely missed this questioning in the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Rick Wilson’s take. I can’t decide what’s more disgusting, Pam Bondi or this take on the questioning.
The Thin Black Duke
I hope the folks who wouldn’t vote for Kamala because of Gaza are happy.
Scout211
@WaterGirl: I’ve been reading bits and pieces about her performance. She yelled a lot and made snide comments. I think MAGA will be pleased. But mostly she was undignified and a bully. So win for MAGA and loss for congressional hearings as a way for anything but sound bites for future political messaging. Sigh.
Ruckus
@Interesting Name Goes Here:
There is no place to run to.
This is our government, not any other country’s.
Seemingly enough of our citizens want the government to shut down that they voted for people that don’t seem to be able to do anything else but screw over everyone. Including themselves.
We as individuals may not have had anything to do with getting to this point, but here we are. And so people that don’t seem to know how to do anything are attempting to run/ruin the government. They don’t seem to like it when the government actually works.
So I’m wondering if I’ll get my SS retirement paid this month.
I’m not holding my breath.
Belafon
@Percysowner: Gender Swapped Ross is Susan Collins.
iKropoclast
So I’ve been asking people all day to show me math and data that supports the notion that Gaza protestors, as a group, should be held responsible. Request open to anyone, by the way…
My back of the envelope calculations based on publicly available data suggests that 73 percent of those who were more sympathetic to Palestine than Israel in their conflict voted for Harris. That’s a fairly overwhelming majority.
Of course you’re welcome to reject my methodology, which I explained fully in the linked post. But please provide your own.
Professor Bigfoot
@dm: That’s exactly the question, isn’t it?
It’s long been a military axiom that you never give an order that you know will not be obeyed… and FOP were Trump’s first major endorsement in 2016.
This is where the rubber meets the road– where will the State’s security forces go? With their elected leadership or their union?
Timill
@The Thin Black Duke: That thread is over here
debit
@iKropoclast: oh my god can we please stop?
iKropoclast
@debit: Can you? I directly linked my response to the thread where this was already more of an ongoing conversation.
And why aren’t you making that demand of the other person who dragged that conversation into this thread (not that I personally have a problem with it, just I suspect double standards at play)
Belafon
@iKropoclast: How does your back of the envelope calculations handle that the 27% that didn’t vote for her affected the margin of victory?
Balconesfault
I said when Trump got elected, the project 2025 guys really don’t care about downstream effects on the Republican party. They have a 2-year time window to accomplish everything on their list and they’re going to break as much stuff as they can while they have the keys to the car.
They’ll leave it up to Trump to figure out how to hold on to power if that’s what he wants. Their goals will already be accomplished.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Ruckus: I’m trying to find a job. I spend half the time wondering whether or not I’ll have insurance in a week’s time. And to basically be told that things like what we’re going through is just inevitable and a part of life is deeper bullshit than what my last boss tried running past me. All of this shit was so fucking preventable, but people needed to cling to their fucking delusions that they pass off as principles.
iKropoclast
@Belafon: Linked in the comment you responded to. There you will find your answer.
ETA: I actually do agree there’s no point to having this same conversation live in multiple threads, I just don’t like people being snooty about it.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
As I pointed out in the previous thread not paying those of us who have been furloughed is a major climb down from firing us all. So they already seem to be chickening out on that threat. This one will probably fall too in short order.
debit
@iKropoclast: what will this accomplish? At this point all of you are doing nothing more than some sort of public, performative jerk off. Look at me, I’m right!! JFC, get over yourself, all of you.
gene108
@Percysowner:
The bar for right-wing men to be broadly respected in the media is very low. Look at the praise Charlie Kirk despite the things he said publicly.
*******************
Why does Mike Johnson have no clue about what’s going on like only reading a headline about federal workers getting back pay or Trump’s rambling to generals?
Seems like an issue for someone second in-line to the presidency.
The Thin Black Duke
My apologies. I didn’t mean to derail the thread. It’s not just Gaza. But somehow I’m supposed to pretend that there was a legitimate reason for people not voting for Kamala when the alternative was You Know Who. That’s why there’s a persistent narrative all across the myriad media platforms that it was Kamala’s fault. Nope. But thanks for playing.
Marc
Please start with comments like this:
Interesting Name Goes Here
@The Thin Black Duke: This. All of this.
The Thin Black Duke
@Marc: Guilty as charged. My bad.
Hoodie
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Seems to be mostly a lame attempt to scare people. Problem is that repeatedly backing off like they’re doing makes them look even weaker. They really don’t seem to have thought this through, maybe they assumed the democrats would chicken out or public opinion would favor republicans because reasons. They may have maneuvered themselves into a position where they’ll have to do something about the ACA subsidies. MTG might have already telegraphed that, maybe restoration with some bullshit tweak about legal residents getting benefits.
brendancalling
My (other) shitty Senator, Dave “Lives in Connecticut” McCormick actually has people answering the phones this week. That’s how I know he’s worried. Also, the guy answering the phone is REALLY on edge and easy to bait.
gene108
@Barbara:
When ARP went into effect in 2021 the ACA subsidies kicked in, in July. I can see subsidies kicking in after 1/1/2026.
It’ll cost someone more, whether it’s the consumer or the government is the issue.
They are also evil. Evil and stupid is a deadly combination.
Barney
“I saw a headline” is the new “many people are saying”. I therefore request Mike Johnson is tested for dementia. It’s a sign they no longer have the brainpower to do their basic job, just parrot the last thing they read or heard (I guess this means Johnson can still read, so he’s got that over Trump, at least).
iKropoclast
@debit: Supporting arguments with evidence is actually a big part of why I have historically voted for Democrats. I see this claim/lament making the rounds on a daily basis.
Their claim, they need to support it. This is how things are done in places other than cults.
Kirklin
@Interesting Name Goes Here: what kind of job and where? Someone here might be able to share a clue. We’ve done so in the past.
frosty
@debit: Apparently not.
JML
@The Thin Black Duke: well, media has to find a way to excuse all the racist sh!tbags, right? Much easier to blame the black lady whose name they had to spend an extra brain cell learning to pronounce. Can’t ever look in the mirror and recognize the media had a massive hand in gleefully re-electing the most incompetent president the nation has had since…I dunno, one of the racist clowns in the 1800’s? Ever? (Hoover may have completely bungled the Great Depression, but he was at least a decent guy and good administrator, and a lot of people got it wrong back then)
Ugh.
Considering the lingering effects of inflation and international economic winds, not sure any Democrat wins it with the underlying elements being this bad and the biased media institutionally lined up against both Biden & Harris, but much much easier for them to blame the black lady knowing the racists will eat it up.
Me? I still love kamala. She’s better than we deserve.
debit
@frosty: sigh
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Kirklin: Right now, I’ll take anything that’ll provide insurance first and funding to go back to school in the future. I’m in Maryland (which is as much info as I’m comfortable with giving right now).
satby
Oh yes he has.
Captain C
@Interesting Name Goes Here: Also, those who try to prevent history from being taught intend to repeat it.
gvg
I didn’t even know about the new law that they had to get back pay, Always before in shutdowns, someone got stiffed. It rotated whose turn it was, and it was never enough to leave a big group of voters pissed, forever, but there was always some group that didn’t get everything they should have, not to mention compromises always resulted in cuts in jobs.
So the whole republican party has learned to screw on contracts. Of course lawmakers can always change the law. You can’t make them obey when they can just pass another law.
This is why I expect one shutdown after another until Trump is gone. How can you make any deal with a guy who WON’T understand the value of keeping your word. You can’t make a deal with him, not even his “allies”. This is also why it is better not to ask for too much from any deal we need to make in front of the voters. It is going to confuse them when Trump won’t do what he said. Complicated is more confusing to people. Premeium hikes are easier to understand and prive.
It should be possible to get more, but with Trump, we won’t. Only asking for things with a measurable dollar amount is easier to prove or disprove to voters.
Balconesfault
@The Thin Black Duke: of horses popular on our side to blame the media, and of course there’s plenty of blame the media deserves …
But if you’re a GOP voter, all you need is that one issue, be it abortion, be it guns, be it taxes, be it anti-gay… Heck, just that the candidate isn’t a Democrat … Not only is their vote locked down but once the primaries are over it’s full-on support 100%.
If you’re a Democrat, and you don’t match up with at least 95% of what some voters want, you’ll be lucky to get them to bother to show up for you.
And it’s a fairly good bet that a lot of them will spend the entire time between primaries and the general election shit talking you on the couple issues where they disagree.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Percysowner:
“Liberals” that listen to Douchehat (meaning think he has things to say that the Dem party should follow) are entirely predictable Klein/MattY/Atlantic/Vox/New Liberalism types. The ones who define their liberalism entirely based on the fact the voted for Obama and support abortion rights. And we’ve seen how Klowns Like Klein feel about that latter issue of late.
Scrape away those two layers of the onion and those types of “liberals” are Moderate Republicans who…listen to people like Douchehat and think he has good things to say.
UncleEbeneezer
@Timill: Of course they are. They can just say it’s all the fault of Israel! “Look what Israel MADE voters do!!!”
The same people were blaming Israel for the 10/7 massacre and making accusations of Genocide, at rallies in NYC and all over social media not even 24 hours after the attack, before the bodycount had even been tallied and before any military response from the IDF. Now they can simplistically lay all the blame for not just the war in Gaza, but everything Trump 2.0 gives us, on Israel.
iKropoclast
I actually started making that accusation 19 years before the attack. That was only when it came to my attention. I suspect it was true for even longer than that
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@gvg:
I’m ready to be corrected on this but in my experience as a federal employee from mid-1985 until the end of 2023, thus experienced 8 total and all of the ‘significant’ ones (defined as 5 or more days in length).
In every case, we were paid. Bear in mind that getting paid was for *federal* workers, contractors, not necessarily. And the 2019 federal law guaranteeing back pay only applied to federal workers, not contractors.
cmorenc
@The Thin Black Duke:
If the many still-unrepentant Nader voters in Florida in 2000 are any indication, the Michigan voters who refused to vote for Harris in 2024 because of their perception of how Biden let them down restraining Netanyahu in dealing with Palestinians won’t have a moment’s more introspection and reflection than needed to reinforce their smug conviction about the righteousness of their 2024 vote. Nor will the couple hundred thousand+ normally D inclined voters in Pa and Wisconsin who indifferently stayed home because…pox on both parties and candidates. Consider that 24 years later, many 2000 Fla Nader voters are still unrepentant.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@debit: Keep it in the other thread, please.
iKropoclast
Listening does not mean agreeing. It is simply an acknowledgment that the person you hear might have something to say worth paying attention to, even if only very little.
I’ll hear Douthat out, not that I never find him compelling or persuasive, but he makes arguments from evidence rather than bold assertions, from what I’ve seen. This, alone, puts him heads and tails above 90 percent of his partisan cohort.
lowtechcyclist
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
One would think that any contractor with any experience with the Federal government would require a “we get paid for shutdowns” clause in any contract they’d agree to. But I could be wrong: during my 25-year Federal career, I didn’t have much contact with contractors.
lowtechcyclist
@cmorenc:
How about the Nader voters in NH? If they’d all voted for Gore, he’d have won NH’s 4 EVs and the election, and Florida wouldn’t have mattered.
I figure they’re probably the same, but everybody forgets about them.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
The Republican party is the party of Trump. If you don’t support Trump, you can’t credibly be called a Republican at this point. So when you flame everyone to the right of Sanders as a Republican, you are flaming allies against Trump. You are flaming people who actually agree with you on some issues, but apparently aren’t sufficiently pure. You aren’t convincing anyone to the right of Sanders that you have good ideas. You just make them angry with you. Is that your goal? If so, heck of a job.
JML
@lowtechcyclist: I’m sure the pink badges manning vast swaths of the Pentagon at inflated prices will all get paid via their corporate masters.
I can’t decide if the administration thinks this “we’re not paying federal workers!” gambit is actually a cudgel against the democrats or just another “burn it all down!!!” move where they hope more people they deem useless (aka, normal people who work for a living, rather than grift or live on a trust fund) will quit working for the feds and they can fill up the ranks with more cronies and losers.
iKropoclast
Less drama surrounding the counting process.
Mike E
I read this post’s headline as The Repubs Are Getting Testes and thought, nope not possible, heh.
HopefullyNotCassandra
The Speaker now wants to change Obamacare. More threats coming from the lawless goyper party.
WTFGhost
Now, now, don’t dis Johnson over that, he’s Trump’s neutered little yapdog, and he can’t do *analysis* since the snip-snip. No, he just has to avoid speaking against Trump, so, he has to say something, that sounds like he’s in favor of supporting Trump, regardless of the legality, morality, or ethics of doing so. Good Johnson, here’s a bikkie for you! Remember, no licking your balls during the press conference, just yip
“REPUBLICAN SUPPORT MEDICARE AND MEDICAID!”
“Democrats broke it!”
“I love
gobbling Trump’s cran…the strong leadership displayed by our lord and savior God-emperor, Trump!”GOOD BOY!
WaterGirl
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I can’t tell if you are agreeing with debit or you are chastising her.
VFX Lurker
I’m 40% through the 107 Days audiobook.
I’m glad Kamala Harris told her story, because no one else will.
schrodingers_cat
@The Thin Black Duke: No we are not supposed to talk about it or express any frustration. We have to praise those vote withholders for their moral rectitude. We also have to agree with the broader blog sentiment or be lectured to in a condescending fashion.
Harrison Wesley
“I saw a headline.” Dunno what made me think of “I read the news today,oh boy.” Haven’t thought about the Beatles in forever.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@The Thin Black Duke: You want to point out racism on the left; how else does one explain the narrative on the Left is Jeffries messaging somehow weak and ineffectual next to that babbling fool Johnson, who is supposedly getting through to the public?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@WaterGirl: I’m respectfully asking she not continue arguing about 2024 in this thread.
WTFGhost
@Mike E: Two of us thought them neutered then. Hm. Go figure
@dm:
@dm: It takes enough noise that the mayor/governor has cover. You can’t arrest cops, unless you have them doing something wrong.
So if ICE opened fire, with real bullets and all, and killed a few citizens, the city or state might be able to whip up the support to expel ICE, and demanding the immediate surrender and temporary detention of all ICE agents, pursuant to an investigation of the murderous activities that occurred on $DATE_TIME. “We would restrict this order to the agents identified as part of the incident, but due to widespread masking, we must investigate every officer.”
That’s when you can risk it – and even then, you’d have to carefully find the golden line where you get to stand up for your people, without actively threatening law enforcement.
That’s part of Trump’s game. You don’t like mass deportations? You’re in favor of terrorists and child-rapists and drug dealers, which represent a percentage of the people we beat down! You don’t like the National Guard? You don’t want to keep your city safe from deadly, constant crime! You think our decent, kindly, honorable ICE agents (“Seconds Since Beatdown On Abuela: 15” flashes, then goes back to 0) are being mean to people and that’s why Charlie Kirk, that lovable Jesus-like figure who said we needed a few mass shootings, just to have a healthy second amendment, AND I BET YOU CELEBRATED HIS DEATH, DIDN’T you LIEBERAL?!?!
hueyplong
@The Thin Black Duke: “I hope the folks who wouldn’t vote for Kamala because of Gaza are happy.”
They’re not happy, but like the famous French aristocrats, they’ve neither forgotten nor learned much of anything about the experience except for concluding (as everyone does on the internet) that they were right all along. Whenever GOPers manage total silence on an issue, you can bet it’s one on which Dems are expected to (and do) form a circular firing squad.
It will be part of every thread posted today and apparently nothing short of exposing a video from the Epstein files of Trump and Epstein violating a child will change it.
And even that would have an effect lasting maybe two news cycles, as a military assault on San Francisco with lots of civilian casualties pushed it out of the public eye/mind and instantly drew 50/50 polling as to whether it was a good thing that a tank flattened a trans woman in Union Square.
debit
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: oh my god. The point, you have missed it. I’m out.
WTFGhost
@Scout211: Yeah. Now, me, I really want the shutdown to be short, and I want backpay going out immediately, for the good of all humanity. For the good of the Democrats, remember, the longer the shutdown, the more economic damage, the better D odds in the midterm. No backpay will further damage the economy, and make Rs look like petty little shitbirds, which is precisely the message we’d want voters to take from it.
So, is Trump bluffing? No, he’s just flexing. This is a “flex” for him. He’s a Big Man, and he can Break The Law, because No One Can Stop Him From Being a PLS, hurt voters, hurt the economy, and hurt the Ds in the way we don’t *want* him to, but… I’m willing to accept that aid in wiping out stupidity, hate, and evil from the Republican Party.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@debit: It seems I did miss the point. I read it back over. I apologize.
bjacques
I’m old enough to remember when Douchehat was affectionately known as Chunky Reese Witherspoon, because of a story he told about his college days, to burnish his credentials as a Young Fart.
lowtechcyclist
@Harrison Wesley:
“My story had more holes in it than the Albert Hall.” – Nick Danger
trollhattan
@Harrison Wesley:
I have Perforated Albert Hall holding on line #3.
trollhattan
@lowtechcyclist: Jinx!
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@lowtechcyclist: The way our contracts work is we give them a budget and a period of performance and try to get them to spend all the money by the end of the POP. So if they have projects they can work on without further guidance from us they can keep working. Otherwise they do more work in a shorter amount of time or get a no cost extension on the POP. So they’re not really out any money due to a shut down but their employees may not be billing any hours so they’re may or may not make that up later.
JBWoodford
@bjacques: Oh, thanks so much for reminding me of that bit of…well, technically it was writing.
Betty
The idea that Mikey thinks he can get MTG to be quiet is pretty hilarious.
Melancholy Jaques
@Percysowner:
Honestly I have no idea how Ross Douthat is so respected by media in general.
Respected? I’m not so sure. He can be relied on to misrepresent and criticize Democrats, but he is most helpful when he justifies of cruel and stupid Republicans with quasi religious bullshit.
H-Bob
@dmsilev: Not sure that I agree — the Republicans’ healthcare plan has always been “Don’t Fear the Reaper”!
lowtechcyclist
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Thanks for that excellent summary!
tam1MI
The claim is useful to both the Uncommitted crowd and the – I guess you would call them the “Anti-Uncommited” crowd, for very different reasons.
mrmoshpotato
Boo
this manPutin’s puppet, the fat, orange, fascist shitstain.WTFGhost
Thank you. You put your finger on the precise two points I hate.
First, all “Conservative” writers do as you say – they will lie their asses off so badly, they won’t be able to walk for week afterward, about Democrats. They don’t care about representing reality – they’re just going to base everything on straw men.
And, having been the target of childhood teasing, there’s nothing I hate more than “I call you X_Bad_Thing because I dislike you, and not because of anything honest.”
And, second, they are going to assume their conclusion. If there were actual “Conservative” thinkers, and not mere propagandists, they’d come up with something new and interesting once in a while, not mere justification for whatever Republicans want to do.
So it’s prejudice, coupled with sloppy thinking. You can’t get anything but swill doing that. And that’s why I don’t respect folks like Douthat – in point of fact, if he’s worthy of the respect he’s shown, he knows damn well he’s a propagandist, a Republican lapdog, who is given a longer leash, in case he does something especially cute.
Sorry – haven’t slept which is both uncomfortable, and dangerous, for me, but I’m definitely more cranky about some things right now.
Castor Canadensis
@Interesting Name Goes Here:
The folks who told you that are either stupid as stones, or aren’t acting in good faith. It’s a false dichotomy, arguing for hopelessness.
There are at least three possibilities:
don’t learn,
learn and don’t act, and
learn and act.
Captain C
@bjacques: And reading between the lines of that story, one wonders if he was either suffering from performance anxiety or a severe case of the closets.
Karen Gail
I was chasing posts on conversion therapy and realized that they missed a group; young women who don’t want to be mothers and wives. Okay, there are probably young men who don’t want to be fathers and husbands but I am an ex wife.
I thought about the way I was brought up; we train young women and young men to fit a stereotype; for my generation you were a wife and mother or weird or sick or insane. As a whole we want boxes that people fit into rather than accepting them as they are; politics, religion, sex.
I love the snark here, at times; but doubt people’s ability to think outside stereotypes; when it come to anything.
Harrison Wesley
@Castor Canadensis: Or don’t learn and act anyway.
iKropoclast
@Castor Canadensis: I think one implied facet of that outlook is that those who haven’t learned are more numerous and influential, constraining the ability of those who have learned to act effectively.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Castor Canadensis: And what happens when the people who have learned and acted are forced to watch the other two categories shove their dick in the mashed potatoes like they’re reenacting the scene from American Pie? Because if you’re a Black person in the United States, that’s what the last year and change has been. Despite our best efforts and gracious accomodations, we’ve been forced to watch the assholes who don’t learn do what they always do and the assholes who were taught assisting them in a variety of ways that would make TJ Watt proud. Biden bent over backwards for some of these people and was chased out as a result. Kamala made the best case she could and was told to fuck off because reasons. At what point do we break the stupid cycle? When millions of people die because of the current government’s hateful bull–oh, wait, we traveled that path and some people thought we should go for Round 2.
WaterGirl
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: That’s why I was so confused.
Harrison Wesley
@H-Bob: Hmm. Republicans give us rock nostalgia? First the Beatles, now Blue Oyster Cult…..
Castor Canadensis
@WTFGhost: A state can force them to identify themselves. Otherwise they’re impersonating a police officer.
The identification required can arguably include showing photo-id matching their face, recorded by the state police.
(Necessary, but not sufficient for those who pass. They then have to be identified comitting a crime)
HopefullyNotCassandra
@iKropoclast: good catch. I just kept seeing Karl Urban and didn’t know why.
Baud
Apparently, Stephen Miller said something he shouldn’t have, freaked out, and CNN edited the video to delete the scene.
Nutmeg again
@Percysowner: We’re all chunky Reese Weatherspoon now.
bjacques
@H-Bob: more like having to play “Beat The Reaper”
coin operated
Really? another thread where we’re *again* hashing out the election?
Fuck…some of you people need to go touch some grass.
The only ‘past’ we need to hash out is how we’re going to get all these fascist fucks in front of a tribunal. To do that, you need to look *forward* and figure out how to get the levers of power back.
BTW…I’m liking the Dem messaging here. Any day the Pornhub Pastor is back on his heels re: messaging is a good day indeed.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@scav: horrible security practices? Check.
This regime is transforming the DC swamp into an open sewer. These folks will not be happy until our God-given right to drink arsenic in our milk is restored. Caveat emptor for all. Grifting by divine right restoration.
Harrison Wesley
@bjacques: Jaundice it is!!
trollhattan
@Nutmeg again:
My Morning Show residual checks have been yuge and zaftig.
Nettoyeur
@bjacques: I think you mean Chunky David Brooks. Chunky Reese was the young woman whose offer of favors at a party Chunk Brooks so nobly turned down. These pasty preppies who went from university lib arts degrees to well padded pundit spots without a real day’s work turn my stomach.
HopefullyNotCassandra
@Betty: yes, I, too, enjoyed Mike Johnson’s attempt to make Marjorie Taylor Greene submit.
HopefullyNotCassandra
Deleted because I duplicated
LAC
“If a society permits one portion of its citizenry to be menaced or destroyed, then, very soon, no one in that society is safe. The forces thus released in the people can never be held in check, but run their devouring course, destroying the very foundations which it was imagined they would save.”
James Baldwin
trollhattan
@Nettoyeur: It was Douthat. Brooks banged his assistant, got divorced and then married her. I don’t know if it was all to curry favor with Newt Gingrich.
Li’l Ross told the chunky Reese tale to exemplify his stoicism in remaining a college virgin—we salute you, son—something that incels have since decided is all the fault of college girrrrrls.
Martin
@Melancholy Jaques: I don’t think Douthat is respected. I think the NYT believe they need a Republican version of Klein, and there’s not really much to pick from in that regard. Klein really does have the ear of Democratic politicians, Douthat absolutely does not.
Now, I think a lot more criticism of the NYT is deserved for feeling that they need that slot filled. I have a lot of criticisms of Klein but I’ll give him credit for being a good interviewer and being a pretty good faith one to the extent that he allows his friends to come on the podcast and pants him in public. Given that I think Klein is a good proxy for the Democratic Party in general, I find that helpful. Pre-Trump I might have found that helpful for the GOP, but I don’t know how that party can be salvaged now and so I don’t know what the point of having someone in that slot, let alone someone as flawed as Douthat is.
Billd
This is the season Fonzi jumps the shark, right?
Baud
She expressed particular disgust for unthreaded comments.
WTFGhost
nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-weighs-challenge-bans-conversion-therapy-aimed-lgbt…
The SCOTUS might agree that bans on conversion therapy, for LGBTQ+ youth, violate the “Free Speech” of therapists. We need someone to write a fictional “friend of the court” briefing for “our clients, PornDogs R Us” demanding that the state also strike age restrictions for their marketing and services.
Mike in Pasadena
@dm: Friend said to me, “When masked and unidentified thugs start trying to force a Latino into an unmarked car, I should be able to help the victim. To me the thugs look like kidnappers, not police or ice. They have nothing identifying theselves.” I like the argument. Will it work as a defense? Maybe, if you ask for a jury trial.
Harrison Wesley
Chunky Reese? Somewhat like Reese’s Pieces?
Peke Daddy
@Percysowner: High comedic entertainment value?
Lyrebird
@iKropoclast:
I don’t know if you actually mean that you’ll hear questions to your method, but on this day of heartbreak, I will assume you did mean that, so:
I don’t think the national numbers can answer whether Mich. and PA were lost in part due to “Abandon Harris” type non-voters.
Anne Laurie
Given that Doubthat (my preferred moniker) divorced his wife, abandoned his kids, and is now hanging around Central Europe speaking glowingly of ‘big burly bearded men quaffing ales & gnawing on pig knuckles’… yeah, he was never really interested in CRW.
Harrison Wesley
@Anne Laurie: “Pig’s knuckles” is what they call it? Interesting.
Captain C
@trollhattan:
Wasn’t that right when he was teaching a class on ethics and morals at Yale?
Eyeroller
@Anne Laurie: I believe you are thinking of Rod Dreher. He started Protestant, went tradcath, then when they weren’t OG enough for him, went Eastern Orthodox. Then his wife divorced him and he moved to Hungary for a while.
I get them confused also.
iKropoclast
That’s precisely what I meant. And I did what I did based on publicly available information. Gallup did not have polling on comparative views of Israel/Palestine based on state, only the national numbers which is why I excluded that portion when someone asked me, what about Michigan?
Still, going over what I do know, 5.6 million people voted in Michigan. If we assume the 30 percent support for Palestine again, that gets us to 1.68 million total voters sympathetic to Palestine. (This number is likely higher but since a higher number is more favorable to my argument, then I’ll go with the lower value for reasons of extending good faith).
Harris only lost 70,000 votes from Biden’s total in Michigan, about 2.8 percent of his total vote share. She lost Michigan by 80,000 votes. So even if we assume every lost vote was due to Palestine, it wouldn’t cover the difference.
The simple fact is Trump increased his vote total in Michigan. That’s why he won there.
That 70,000 dropoff vs 1.68 million voters sympathetic to Palestine is 4.7 percent of that group. So, if we again assume all drop off was due to Palestine, that still leaves over 95 percent of those supporting Palestine likewise supporting Democrats.
I’m pretty sure that’s a higher rate of support for Democrats among supporters of Palestine than I calculated with the national totals. I feel pretty safe not only that the abstain crowd wasn’t the reason Harris lost, they were even less the reason in Michigan.
I would have an easier time believing that Trump’s questionably authentic but definitely stated support for stopping the war crimes may have drawn in new support from prior non-voters that could easily have put him over the top.
But I, again, am not a statistician. I have pointed out my methodology and what I perceive are the gaps in it. If you want to take a stab answering this question with the publicly available information and use different methods, please do. And show your work.
Otherwise the only way we’re getting better answers is to commission a study.
Karen Gail
Told a few people I know that am end of rope and am looking for “job” where can pass on homesteading skills; didn’t realize how many people want my skills but not my resistance to be submissive to idiot male or am just old and old in their eyes means useless.
We have become a nation of idiots; old hard earned skills are made fun of with no clue of what it takes to kept people fed.
WTFGhost
@Mike in Pasadena: I’ve been told by a gunlover (and that is a euphemism) that you aren’t allowed to go by appearances, for third party protection. For example, what if the original assailant is running from the guy he attacked, who now has a gun? If you shoot the guy with the gun, it was the dearly departed, sainted “good guy with a gun.” And it’s a reasonably foreseeable situation, right? So even a random person, who uses a gun for self defense, can be expected to have thought of such a situation. Someday, you might be the one running around with a gun, etc..
But when it comes to your own defense (check your state, etc., if you want/need to know), you can go by appearances.
So if you see someone, who seems to present a reasonable threat to your life, and other conditions are met, you can usually use lethal force in self defense, even if you’re wrong about who it was, or why you felt you needed to use lethal force. After all, the law typically recognizes that if you wait too long, to determine if lethal force is threatened, the issue becomes unfortunately moot. So if you are defending yourself against ICE-like behavior, you’re in a much safer legal position… even if it turns out to be actual ICE, out of uniform, no visible badge.
However, if there’s no body cam footage, actual ICE agents may – though it’s unlawful! – swear to false facts, such as “we loudly announced ourselves, and pleaded with the subject to surrender!” because, face it, some people dream of being Cartman the Cop – YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!
And if they did so, then it’s your word, just someone who shot at cops, versus two agents of the court, presumed to be trustworthy and candid and to brush their teeth after every meal. So, meh, remember the old adage, be okay using lethal force if you feel “better judged by 12 than carried by 6,” and also remember, sometimes, the 12 might judge against you, be it justice, or not. Any prosecutor or defense lawyer will say a jury is a roll of the dice, however well loaded. If you choose “alive and maybe-in-jail” you can’t whine too-too hard if the “maybe” comes through.
Another Scott
@TONYG: 47 and his minions think, and want the rest of to think, that the president – especially this president – is a king . Anything he says goes. If he says we’re being invaded and it’s an emergency, and it’s snowing in Death Valley in August, well, that’s what it is because he’s the king. Doesn’t matter what the law and regulations say, he’s the king and he decides and if you don’t like it, well, you can get kicked out of the country or go to prison.
And the SCOTUS is fine with this view because he’s a Republican.
And he and his minions are going to keep saying and doing all this illegal crap until people, especially people in authority who take oaths to the Constitution, push back and say NO!
You are not a king.
Your lies do not counter reality.
The laws and regulations do apply to you.
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kayla Rudbek
@iKropoclast: although Douthat has gone back and forth among various Christian denominations if I recall correctly (starting as Protestant, then Roman Catholic, then Orthodox) so his only consistency is being right wing
Iron City
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Those are some contracts. Our contracts have tasks and descriptions and budgets and schedules and a little bit of cash on them. When the 3 weeks (or whatever) of cash is spent we have to stop work because we can’t let the agency go anti-deficient don’t you know. In the recent past the contracting has gotten more and more like this and since the last election of the orange menace and associated budget stupidity contracts have been dropping like flies.