I have calmed down (sorry for the earlier outburst, I really don’t know anyone who has the capacity to drive me insane as much as Hillary- I really don’t) and allowed myself to watch the idiots covering the post-debate, and only one thought is going through my mind:
“Was Michael Gerson beaten as a child, and if not, is it too late to make up for lost time?”
What an insufferable jackass. Why is it that the predominant value shared by those representing “values voters” is to be a tool? I don’t remember that value being taught in Sunday school.
Consider this an open thread.
Mary
I presume you are referring to his labelling of Obama’s down to earth answer re Bittergate as “academic and Marxist”?
Yeah. I was similarly impressed.
Punchy
If you haven’t seen this movie yet, be warned. Knowing that this shit (or some form of it) is actually happening in the real world by our government will infuriate you more than you think.
The Commander Guy
I don’t know why you gave Hillary the benefit of the doubt for so long ….. but you did so Hillary’s wingnuts got nothing to complain about.
grandma vicki
John, as always you make me laugh out loud. Can I help you beat Gerson? I used to like Hillary, what seems like eons ago, I now find it impossible to even watch or listen to her sanctimonius garbage.
Gus
Gerson took a pretty nice beating a few months ago, when one of his old speechwriting buddies bashed him for taking all the credit for a number of Bush speeches. Looking back on some of those speeches, I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t just let Gerson take that credit.
rob!
why would anyone on any reputable news network ask the opinion of anyone who can be introduced with the phrase “he helped get George W. Bush re-elected”?
The Grand Panjandrum
Anyone needing to be cheered up should watch this Obama take down of McCain and Hillary. Wait for the part where he talks about her “gun” experience. Annie Oakley indeed. Fucking priceless.
vwcat
John, CNN is rerunning it now. At about 5 min. to the top of the hour you really need to turn it on and see how when they introduced Obama, he got a rousing standing ovation – Hillary got a polite one.
He kicked her ass just by showing up.
The Grand Panjandrum
Oops h/t Andrew Sullivan for the video.
firebrand
I do: Republicans. Although telling the difference between Republicans and Hillary these days is basically an exercise in futility.
Punchy
And then there’s undersea earthquakes
/laughs uncontrollably at funny Spanish pronounciation
The Other Steve
From looking around the intertubes, i looks like the Obama bitter thing is backfiring on Hillary.
The only people still flogging it are our concern troll friends supporting McCain.
vwcat
Oh, yeah. A little something to make you laugh.
Here is a video of Obama at a steelworkers rally today ripping Hillary a new one.
Very funny.
huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/watch-obama-on-annie-oakl_n_96459.html
myiq2xu
You want her, don’t you John? You really want her.
But you can’t have her, and it makes you crazy.
You and Tweety.
Be patient. Bill is nearly thirty years older than you, and he can’t live forever.
west coast
IQ2: ewww.
myiq2xu
What? John is the one with the throbbing thigh sweats.
rob!
only republicans instantly conflate hate and sex. no wonder they’re so interested in what goes on in people’s bedrooms!
some people actually just HATE hillary clinton.
Adam
shorter myiq: please ban me so i can go complain about how i’m being censored. please. pleaaaaaaaase
Jake
Everyone I know in PA says Obama’s remarks didn’t bother them. Some of them also thought Hillary calling Obama an “elitist” was a complete joke.
I’m thinking the mediots got this one wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
The video of Obama laughing at Hillary and making jokes about wanting to see her hunting is priceless. Sully says Obama’s not afraid, and he’s right.
DougJ
God that’s funny.
ThymeZone
Bingo.
DougJ
Don’t ever ban myiq2xu. He’s the funniest commenter here by a mile.
God, that “you want her” stuff was good.
firebrand
myiq: There, there now. When Obama becomes the nominee, we’ll be here to help you work through it. Purging all that unhealthy Clintonista nonsense is going to be murder on your system, but you’ll get through it! Believe in yourself!
CBD
What a sexist thing to say.
ThymeZone
On another related topic, the body language in this picture is interesting, no?
west coast
Politico says that Hillary’s on a mission to save Democrats from themselves, that she honestly fears Obama’s nomination will lead to disaster for the Democrats and etc.
The question that goes unasked is whether HIllary’s fears are based in reality. Hillary’s past fear-based decision-making has proven problematic for the Clintons and America, what makes anyone think that this time her fears are justified?
Seems like great spin, so let’s ignore the fact that Hillary has always wound up on the wrong side of reality when she lets her fears lead her.
Adam
That picture is fucking horrifying on so many levels
rob!
re: that picture:
Obama: “Hillary, if you strike me down, I only become more powerful.”
Adam
Clinton: “Tee hee”
firebrand
I don’t know how Barack controls himself in a situation like that. If it were me, I’d have picked her up and chucked her over the side of a chasm like Darth Vader tossed the Emperor down the reactor shaft at the end of Return of the Jedi.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Wow, that didn’t take long:
http://www.bittervoters.org
If this catches on we may have reached the “I am Spartacus” moment in the primary.
Asti
That’s NOT funny!
ThymeZone
Clinton: You big black beautiful elitist buck!
MelodyHusseinMaker
yeah.
Jake
Speaking of body language, Campbell Brown is looking at Obama in this Compassion Forum like she doesn’t believe a single word he’s saying.
MelodyMaker
oops changed my handle too many times! got modded.
ThymeZone
Campbell: You big black beautiful lying elitist buck!
Asti
Hmmmm, fear, that’s a Republican reaction, isn’t it? I guess I should expect as much from the Goldwater girl.
Soylent Green
POTD
CT
I think Clinton’s plan was to go first and bore the living crap out of the audience to the point that CNN might cancel the show before Obama could come on. I could give a rip about the religious beliefs of any of the candidates, so the content of the answers was less illustrative than the demeanor of the candidates. Hillary seemed determined not to be pinned down on even the most trivial question. She’s talked before about having had spiritual experiences, but when asked to name one, she filibusters for 5 minutes before concluding lamely that its a question that can’t be answered, like being asked which one of your kids you love most?
And didn’t she blow a gasket in Ohio last month when Obama supposedly used…gasp! “right wing framing” in hitting her health care plan-and here she is using the words “San Francisco” like Obama was accepting the endorsement of the NAMBLA Nazi Whale Killers for Satan organization? What’s next, is she going to start calling him a feminazi?
ThymeZone
Good points CT.
Clinton comes from the same school as Karl Rove, it’s all about playing the media Wurlitzer and getting the crowd clapping in tune. Right wing – schmite wing. She doesn’t care, she only cares that the noise is negative on her opponent in some vague way. In a 50% Plus One world, facts don’t matter much. Noise matters.
Thursday
Re: Mr. Gershon – We could ask Ahhnold if the retroactive abortion clinic is still up and running…
youtube.com/watch?v=TPG-tKLAJuE
And there is to be no conflating of Sarah Connor and Hillary!
TenguPhule
Everyone to the right of me is crazy.
Everyone to the left of me wants Hillary to STFU and go home already.
Is it fucking September yet?
Slappy
Is someone nickswitching myiq2xu?
I know John said that he prefers to leave comments alone so that we can laugh yadda yadda but this ‘Cole wants to fuck HRC’ thing seems like a nickswitch parody and ought to be banned.
The “people want to have a beer with her” line in an earlier thread must have been a nickswitch too. Can we get this straightened out?
Phil
John, I see you and Andrew Sullivan’s subsequent man-crush on Barack Obama is driving you to severe rage. I guess the whole narrative of Obama riding to the presidency on his magical unicorn and CHANGE-ing and HOPE-ing and “YES WE CAN”ing all our problems away is not going to pass as you had envisioned it.
In fact, let me be the first of your readers to say bring this dumb motherfucker on, because I’ve changed my mind. I’d rather face this Marxist elistist fuck than Hillary Clinton (who while disliked by much of the general population is still a Clinton and thus quite shrewd and ruthless politically).
Obama has only started to be vetted. Forget Jeremiah Wright. Wait until his associations with the Weather Underground, an actual domestic terrorist organization, come to light. And they will most definitely come to light. Wait until his ridiculously liberal voting record (#1 in the Senate) becomes common knowledge (and it will too). His support for partial birth abortion. His support for total bans on handguns. The fact that he has NEVER supported a tax cut. His support for driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants. His belief that government is the solution to all of our problems.
And this is all before he actually has to debate John McCain on the issues. Bring this aloof dumbass on.
Conservatively Liberal
I wonder if Hillary went on first because her some of her supporters might be weakening, plus she would get some of the people who tuned in early to see Obama. Going first gives her supporters a chance to tune Obama out after she was done.
I think going first was stupid on her part because Obama is a strong finisher. He ‘closes the deal’ when he talks, and with the show ending on him, he would be what is remembered. Sure enough, the commentary I have read everywhere reflects that.
Odd choice by her, especially with her (feigned?) offense at being asked the first question in the debates. I noticed that the Clintonistas at hillaryis44 were pissed off that Obama got a warmer reception than the Ice Queen did. That, and they felt that Hillary was given the tough questions and Obama was given the softball ones.
Here is some pleasant commentary from Hillaryis44:
eh? eh?! ;)
Mind you, there are more than a few members at Hillaryis44 that have come right out and say that they are gay. And they are suggesting Hillary does what?!
Hillary won’t throw Obama off the bus like people are trying to do to her, she just wants him to go to the back of it.
Ok, Hillary’s supporters know they will win because
psychospsychics say so. Gotcha.Everywhere Obama goes is a rally! ;)
Damn you psychics!
And for the grand finale!
But immediately amended:
As you can see, the Clintonistas have decided to try Ken Kesey’s “Electric Kool-aid Acid Test” on themselves.
They failed it.
TenguPhule
Shorter Phil: 100 years of War! No Billionare Left Behind! Pro-rapist and proud of it! Bomb Bomb Iran! Campaign Finance Law Applies to Thee, Not to Me! I envy Obama’s penis.
That wall is getting damn full.
TenguPhule
Will Fuckstain McCain be for it before he’s against it?
Martin
Yes, Obama was an early achiever, joining the organization shortly before they disbanded when he was 8 and living in Indonesia.
And ridiculously liberal? I thought liberal already meant ridiculously liberal? You guys have sucked all meaning out of the word that it fails to exist without the constant escalation of adjectives. We’re well beyond ridiculously liberal and up to radical liberal now. You need to keep up on the memos.
I wonder how much time McCain will spend defending why he approached Kerry to be the VP for a latte-sipping, birkenstock wearing, east coast intellectual flip-flop traitorous, America hating liberal? Or do you think the Dems will fail to bring that up?
And expect Obama to praise McCain for his very long tenure in the Senate and for serving the nation for over half a century – since well before Obama was born, in fact. And for helping in the war between the north and south.
Yeah, Obama is really in a bad way here.
Rick Taylor
Be patient. It will be brought.
Phil
While I realize it’s very early (Dukakis had an 18 point lead over the elder Bush before elder Bush won in 1988), best of luck to the Obama cultists. McCain is consistently leading everyday against the mostly unvetted Cult of Obama: rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_elect…
Look forward to the debates where Cult of Obama can no longer read from his cue cards.
TenguPhule
BP in MN
Right, because MCCAIN is the brilliant, off-the-cuff speaker the American public is dying for. Any word on whether they’ll allow Lieberman or McCain’s economic advisors to stand behind him and correct his gaffes in real time during debates?
shera
Oh, it’s already been broughten. In a milkshake glass.
Conservatively Liberal
Damn, you are an ugly parrot Phil.
AnneLaurie
Dukakis had an 18 point lead over the elder Bush before elder Bush won in 1988
… as a result of Lee Atwater’s most successful presidential ratfvcking campaign? If that kind of electronic thimblerigging is Old Jawn McCain’s best hope, Obama can start choosing his Oval Office artwork, because the American voter has gotten a lot more tech-savvy over the last 20 years. Of course the party that made Diebold a verb will do all it can to replicate Bush I’s ‘success’, but they’ve long since lost the presumption of innocence.
jones
Cole’s going to be a lot more whiny and petulant when Obama reaps the whirlwind from Wright and “bittergate” and goes down in a landslide come November. You actually think a far left, race baiting, elitist, inexperienced bigot like Obama stands a chance in the general? Exactly what red states is he gonna pick up? He’s likely to lose PN, NJ, hell maybe even Oregon, Washington or California, surely all the Mid-West and a couple New England blue states.
It was always going to be hard for a black man with 3 years national political experience to get elected in this country. He has sealed the deal with Wright and then iced the cake with bittergate. He’s toast, and even Dem insiders know it, that’s why the supers haven’t endorsed and anointed Obama yet, but what can they really do? They are boxed in. Kiss this election goodbye, hope he doesn’t kill too many downticket bleeders and start planning on how to flush the election down the shitter in ’12, Democrats.
JackieBinAZ
hmm someone sounds pretty bitter.
SnarkyShark
jones-
I don’t know how anybody could get more delusional, but I am sure some Fox Democrat Hillary supporter will come in here and top you.
It smells like fear stained troll sweat. Smells like victory
Escariot
I. for one, a, relieved that someone is here to set us all straight (pardon the expression) on how politics works. It’s fairly obvious that the seething rage exhibited from time to time by our esteemed host, is based on the actions and comments of the recipient of his anger, namely Senator Clinton. There is some consolation in that, at least until the primary season is over, there is an alternative to her, and that alternative is Senator Obama.
The more she talks, and maneuvers, and slimes (Kristol actually picked up her talking points and broadcast them on the New York Times Opinion page for her, THAT must feels good) the better he looks.
The world will be right again when Hannity is back doing the weather in Indianapolis or wherever he came from.
TR
Delusional. Sure, McCain’s going to take California. And then he’ll conquer the moon, too!
RSA
Given his most recent run for the Presidency, it’s hard to see how John McCain could possibly face any obstacles:
And that’s from people nominally on his side.
calipygian
Phil –
Since you are such a Republican supporter, tell us, please, under what circumstances the Commander in Chief can crush the testicles of a child in front of his parents? Is it to prevent a terrorist attack?
I thought so.
D-Chance.
To be fair, it’s hard to tell the two apart… although I think San Fransissys tend to favor baby seal clubbing over whale killing.
Conservatively Liberal
I luv me these wingnutz and rabid Clinton supporters, but frankly it is pretty hard to tell the difference between them. If you listen what each side says, it is like they are reading from the same talking points. If they were in a classroom in school and taking a test, nobody would pass because they all would be cheating by copying each other.
But everyone else gets to have a great laugh at their expense, so that is fine with me.
daryljhusseinfontaine
There’s at
least one.
D
Dennis - SGMM
So, Phil and jones, if you are actually two different people, why didn’t McCain show up at the shindig? He was invited. Seems to me that would have been a chance for him to express himself on an issue important to values voters. It wasn’t as if it was debate, was it? Could it be that the increasing frequency of McCain’s “Senior Moments” means that his handlers will have to keep him on the track of friendly audiences and set-piece speeches for as long as possible? Yeah, I don’t blame him for ducking out. Especially when it would have gone something like this:
“Senator McCain, how has your faith influenced your life?”
“Homina, homina homina, tax cuts, homina, homina, peace with honor, homina, homina bomb Iran. Well, it’s Tommy this and Tommy that and chuck him out the brute. But he’s the savior of his country when the guns begin to shoot. Good afternoon, Inspector Fenwick. Hello, Nell.”
“Thank you, Senator.”
jenniebee
Pffft – I just wish Democrats didn’t complain so loudly about their nominee being chosen democratically. More people are voting in the primaries this year than in any year previously, more people are getting to see the candidates than in any year previously. The only way this could be better for the country is if the actual campaigning was distinguishable from an episode of “Pardon My Zinger,” but the Megan McArdle School of Journalism says that what the people want is less policy analysis and more of an audition for Paul Lynde’s spot on Hollywood Squares, so that’s what the people get.
Fuck it all, I’m selling out and moving to Scotland. Scotland needs DBA’s, right? That’s the ticket – Scotland.
timb
Escariot, that hurt. I mean, ouch. Here in Indy we have plenty of things wrong. But, we NEVER foisted that moron on America. Our weatherman contribution to America is/was David Letterman, not Hannity.
Shockingly, Hannity began his radio career in earnest in Alabama and Georgia, where his careful race-baiting ways in the 80’s and early 90’s was new-fangled.
But, this bitter thing? It’s perfect for Hannity and morons like him. I was feeling pretty nasty about beating McCain about the head with his hundred years comment. But, seeing how the Republicans (and Hillary, I can’t tell the difference any longer) are going to take an intelligent, thoughtful answer to a question, cute two sentences, and try to scare the white trash, well, I’m feeling a little more sanguine about abusing McCain.
Dennis - SGMM
With respect, I think that the candidate has been chosen by the voices of the people. It’s just that the other candidate wants to overturn that on the grounds of electability. Clinton seems convinced that, although her own party didn’t choose her, somehow everyone else will.
w vincentz
i have big penis
Conservatively Liberal
Translated.
Ed Drone
I note that the commentators in the after-math segment made a point of McCain’s absence, and indicated that this was a sign that the Democrats are becoming the party of religion (albeit a kind of liberation theology) and the Republicans were losing out on the religious front. I was astounded, but secretly pleased, that they took this tack.
I noted that Obama seemed at ease when talking about religion, and Hillary seemed much less so. Part of this is probably due to her personality — “at ease” doesn’t usually appear in a sentence with “Hillary Clinton” — and also to her branch of Christianity — I can’t recall, but I think she’s from the kind of Church referred to as the “frozen chosen” (I’m an Episcopagan, so I recognize the type).
In all, it was an odd sort of ‘debate,’ even odder than the ‘dueling press conference’ style ones we seem to have now. I long for a real Nixon-Kennedy style debate, where you have to support or defend a given position on specific matters, with no ‘gotcha’ questions or any suchlike.
So, chalk up another win for Obama, and another loss for
Annie OakleyHillary Clinton.Ed
ThymeZone
LEt’s see … economy, check. McCain admits he isn’t sure what an economy is.
Sunni v Shia? McCain only knows that they are both brown-skinned. They might even be Mexican.
Ideas? McCain had one in 1980 but can’t remember what it was.
Yeah, we’re tremblin’ over them debates to come. Fer sure.
jenniebee
Oh, please. You aren’t complaining that she has been selected instead of elected, because she hasn’t been. You’re complaining because she thinks she might be selected, and has therefore not dropped out, which has kept your guy from being selected by the money/press/New Hampshire trifecta.
I had really hoped that a candidate hanging in beyond Super Tuesday and staying competitive all the way to convention would encourage future contenders to do the same – that maybe we’d actually change the way we think about the nomination process and start demanding that it be done by more than a few states. Judging by the BJ crowd, though, that’s not what the people want.
PeterJ
Jenniebee, the problem isn’t Clinton staying in the race. The problem is what she is resorting to to try to get the lead.
TenguPhule
Yes, those Hillary-supporters just can’t seem to grasp the concept of every vote counts.
TenguPhule
Shorter jenniebee: People with no chance to win should kneecap their own party because really, it’s people like Obama who think states shouldn’t count.
Better trolls please.
oh really
I believe rational people can (should?) hate Hillary Clinton. [Note: in a non-violent way.]
However, no fair-minded, rational person can hate Hillary more than he or she hates Bill unless there’s a bit of misogyny hovering around somewhere.
Hillary’s the bubonic plague; Bill’s the pneumonic plague. It just doesn’t make sense to hate Hillary more than Bill.
Sorry, but ever since Bill sent Hillary to Tuzla to take a bullet for him, I’ve been clear about who the bigger POS is.