The panel on Latino voters I attended this morning was an interesting mix. There’s a lot of dissatisfaction with the Obama administration’s deportation policies, and also the implementation of prosecutorial discretion. Markos Moulitsas was on the panel and he re-iterated his feelings about John Tester’s vote against DREAM (“Fuck You” is the short version), but he also admitted that the polling he did showed that the DREAM act was a loser in Montana.
Moulitsas and other panelists believe that the Democrats handed Republicans a major opportunity to regain some Latino votes because of the lack of a really hard push on DREAM as well as zealous immigration enforcement (which as Moulitsas correctly pointed out, “have not bought a single vote from the nativist xenophobic right.”). But when the Republicans bobbled that by running even farther to the right on immigration and amping up the anti-immigrant rhetoric, they lost whatever slim chance they had to recover the Latino vote. The latest polling by Latino Decisions show that the Obama / Romney split is holding at around 66/23.
One of the interesting points raised in the discussion was how Spanish-language media covers immigration at a much greater level of detail and frequency than English-language media. I doubt that this goes completely unnoticed by the White House (which was one of the claims made by a panelist), but the group encouraged multilingual bloggers to write about how immigration is being covered so English readers would know the level of engagement on immigration by Latinos. One of the panelists who worked for Latino Decisions pointed out that his polling sample was sophisticated enough to identify the differences between the Durbin version of the DREAM act and the Rubio version, which removes the path to citizenship. Their polling, which did not identify either bill’s sponsorship or party affiliation, but simply stated a summary of each plan, showed that Latinos are pushing 90/10 on real DREAM act, and are evenly split on Rubio’s plan.
Since support for Obama among Latinos is fairly steady, what’s left is enthusiasm and turnout. To understand the effect of weak turnout (and to see what the coming wave of Latino voters will mean in the future), Latino Decisions unveiled a new national map interactive tool, which lets you what-if different voting scenarios. It’s worth a look, because as Kos points out, once the Southwest demographics flip, our meaning of “swing state” is completely changed. Play with the sliders and check out Texas if you want to dream a little dream.
Hunter Gathers
Unless Mittens can change his numbers among Hispanics, this election is already over.
Linda Featheringill
There’s some interesting stuff there.
It would be good to have some of the Spanish language treatment of immigration reported in English for us language-impaired folks.
Yutsano
@Hunter Gathers: We need turnout here. Did they have any suggestion for improving turnout Mix-Master?
FlipYrWhig
Is the goal of zealous immigration enforcement to impress xenophobic nativist Republicans, or xenophobic nativist Democrats who might otherwise stray and vote Republican? Think of how populist Paul Kanjorski was toppled by racist screwball Lou Barletta in Pennsylvania.
SiubhanDuinne
@FlipYrWhig:
Why do I suddenly want to play Scrabble?
FlipYrWhig
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s a regular syzygy.
pk
A question here for those knowledgeable on the subject. Are the republicans favored by any non white ethnic group? It’s a given that Romney loses the Latinos and African Americans. What about Asians (Indians, Chinese origins and others?). Is there any group other than white in which he has the lead over Obama?
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
This. Also, too, don’t underestimate the importance of immigration enforcement to labor. There’s a real and, IMO, realistic belief that illegal immigrants are driving down wages for jobs that used to pay well enough to support a family. Even people who aren’t xenophobic in general may be angry at people they see as competition, especially when the economy is as bad as it is right now.
FlipYrWhig
@pk: I think I remember hearing around the time of Joseph Cao’s election that Vietnamese Americans tend to favor Republicans.
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: Yup, that’s how I would see it too. As usual, the romance of economic populism as the salvation of the Democratic party starts to founder when we hit issues like immigration and minority rights, where the populist/blue collar position grinds against the liberal/communitarian position.
samuel
LOL…I see one trick Kos is still spewing his “Obama is losing Latino’s” bullshit! That is all he ever does at Nut Root is whine about Obama. Fuck him and that book he is trying to sell.
The only people losing latinos are latinos. They don’t have better representation for their issues because they don’t fucking vote. So they get EXACTLY the representation they deserve. Demographics or not they won’t get representation if they can’t be relied upon to vote!
Kane
http://www.apiavote.org/newsroom/apia-news/2012/poll-finds-asian-american-and-pacific-is
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
I think this is right. The answer basically depends on how you want to divide ethnic groups. I think that if you use broad categories like Census designations, whites are the only group that votes Republican; all the others at least lean Democratic. If you’re willing to look at smaller groups you can find some, like Cuban and Vietnamese Americans, who go against the general trend.
Yutsano
@FlipYrWhig: For the older generation this is true, mostly because Reagan helped a lot of them immigrate easier. The younger generations born here are much more diverse in their political opinions.
Keith G
@Yutsano:
I have worked in the trenches in several city council campaigns here in Houston. My, and our, experience has been the Hispanic turnout is mind numbingly low.
Example: As a result of the ’90 US Census, the Texas Leg created the Texas 29th. It was drawn as a Hispanic majority district in response to activist pressure. Green Grene (very anglo) has been its the 29th’s only Rep, often facing little or no opposition.
When I read fellow progressive wistfully speak of favorable demographics, I think of Gene. Numbers in a census tract are cool, but folks who get their ass involved in the electoral process (register, vote, talk to friends) is the only number that matters.
Mnemosyne
@pk:
IIRC, it’s pretty common for Asian-Americans (especially naturalized citizens) to lean Republican, but I’m not sure the Republicans have been able to keep that advantage since they went on their anti-immigration rampage.
On the Latino voter front, I hope there are some negotiations going on to pressure Obama to support specific legislation (like bringing back the DREAM Act or immigration reform) that would help turn out the Latino vote. Because, contrary to what “progressives” seem to think, the way you successfully pressure politicians is by promising them X number of votes if they support Y legislation, not by threatening to stay home.
Mnemosyne
@Kane:
Given the Asian-Americans I know, the tendency to lean Republican has more to do with the classic pro-business stance that the Republicans used to have than with the social conservatism that’s been paramount lately. And since their tribal identity isn’t wound up in Being Republican like it is for a lot of white folks (and for many Cuban-Americans), Asian-Americans who lean Republican are pretty willing to be true swing voters and judge the candidates on their stances, not just their party affiliation.
This is just my personal experience, though, so YMMV.
lamh35
@Mnemosyne: “pressuring Obama to support…” Doesn’t Obama already support the DREAM ACT that was brought up in the Senate and killed by Replubicans?
I dont’ see the problem being that Obama needs to be pressured to support the DREAM ACT.
The problem lies with GOP. They won’t even get behind the DREAM Act-lite Marco Rubio is “allegedly” working on.
FlipYrWhig
@samuel: I don’t have an issue with someone saying “I think Obama should support X, and I am disappointed and/or outraged that he doesn’t.” That’s a statement of personal principle. He could even say “and here’s what I’m going to do to hold his feet to the fire on X.” Where I run out of patience is when statements of principle become statements about winning and losing electoral politics, or when Obama’s failure to do X becomes a sign that he hates X and must be doing everything in his power to prevent X from ever coming to pass.
Yutsano
@lamh35: Rubio is counting on Latinos to follow him just by virtue of a Spanish surname. Even he has to realize just how detested Cubans are in Latin American immigrant communities. And they are fully aware of his background.
jl
@Mnemosyne:
From the people I know, the GOP is losing youth rapidly in all non-white ethnic groups who have a concern for immigration. These groups are not large compared to Hispanic, but out west, they are growing.
I think most older Vietnamese tend to identify with the GOP, but most younger Vietnamese I know are Democrats or independents, and not uncommon to hear loathing for the GOP. Same for other Asian groups.
Many of my students come from groups with a large immigrant population. They follow immigration far more closely than most whites do.
A lot of younger people in these groups are not citizens, even if they have lived here most of their lives. I do not know the details of why an how and what the process of becoming a citizen is for a person who came to the US with their family when they were just 2 or 3 years old and are still in the process of becoming a citizen in college. But either because of their own status, or that of relatives, friends and class mates, they follow immigration very closely, and the GOP attitude has had a big impact on younger people.
Edit: and when the GOP goes after Hispanics, other groups can put two and two together, and it is noticed, and the (I think correct) inferences are drawn. The CA GOP insanity on Hispanics had an impact on other groups with high proportion of immigrants, at least in the circles I travel in.
Keith G
@lamh35:
Some of the folks down here indicate that support is cool and a lot of folks support a lot of things. Being willing to forcefully advocate and even fight for an important cause seems to be the standard.
Roger Moore
@Keith G:
I assume that some of this is that Texas Republicans have been smarter than the rest of the party about reigning in the Hispanic hate. I think that’s a big reason why Bush and Rove were at odds with the Republican base on immigration; they correctly saw hatred of immigrants as having the potential to drive Hispanics as far into the Democratic camp as African Americans currently are.
That was definitely the outcome here in California. The Republicans successfully competed for Hispanic votes until Prop 187. 187 was a short term win for the Republicans- it energized the base and helped to get Pete Wilson reelected- but at the cost of energizing Hispanic voters and pushing them into the arms of the Democrats. It’s hard to be sure how big the effect has been in practice- the state government was already trending Democratic, which is why Wilson needed to energize the Republican base in the first place- but it seems to have been at least something of a long-term negative for the Republicans.
FlipYrWhig
@Keith G: But there are always shifting standards on what qualifies as a fierce enough fight, until it becomes almost a logical conundrum, where any fight that loses wasn’t fierce enough, by definition.
Kane
In 2008 there were countless stories about how Barack Obama was having problems with traditional Democratic voters. And yet, come election day those voters strongly supported him.
And throughout Obama’s presidency, who among us hasn’t seen the constant stream of media stories presenting a similar narrative of how every traditional Democratic voting block is upset with President Obama, and how he has somehow let them down?
Rarely in these stories is there any context provided of how these groups continue to overwhelmingly support Obama. Instead, if someone manages to offers any criticism of Obama whatsoever, it is sure to be noted and reported and given a narrative of looming doom for Obama.
ChrisNYC
@pk: There was a recent poll showing Asian Americans (east and south asians as well as pac islanders) favor Obama 75/25. 2/3 identified as Dem leaning. Indian Americans go for Obama by a whopping 86%.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/01/us-usa-campaign-asians-idUSBRE8401G520120501
I think Obama’s India trip and the state dinner when Singh came here was partly about the Indian American vote.
Roger Moore
@Kane:
Some of this is probably because the Democrats are a more diverse coalition than the Republicans are. There are plenty of issues where it’s impossible for a Democrat to satisfy everyone. Labor is on the opposite side of immigration from many ethnic minorities. Women’s groups are on the opposite side of reproductive rights issues from some otherwise liberal religious groups. Economic populists can’t agree with socially liberal business people. And so on. Leading the Democrats is a matter of figuring out which issues are most important to which groups and trying to come up with a set of policies that advance each group’s most important interests while only frustrating other groups on their secondary interests. It’s not an easy job.
Kane
You can choose to oppose legislation that would provide opportunities for women, minorities and young people. You can choose to oppose public investment in schools, health care, and infrastructure, all of which are critical to the economic prospects of women, minorities and young people. You can choose to mock young people and tell them to take a bath and get a job when they call for economic fairness. You can choose to conduct a war on women. You can choose to adopt the Papers Please anti-immigration law as a model for the nation. You can choose to oppose marriage equality and economic equality. You can choose to nominate an out of touch plutocrat who proposes a return to the same failed Bush policies. You can even choose to make it difficult for minorities and young people to register to vote.
But you can’t choose to do those things and then claim to have the best interests of women, minorities and young people in mind. It just doesn’t work that way.
Keith G
@FlipYrWhig: Most certainly
I do hope we can avoid being sucked into some kind if chicken or egg vortex where a set of citizens wait to support a leader willing to take up the fight; and where a leader waits to step in to the conflict until a critical level of support is seen.
Sometimes I feel we are there already.
Historically, Americans like dynamic leaders and such leaders have often erred, but they tend to be forgiven as long as they are seen to be pushing ahead.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
True about the Asians and business. There’s also the anti-communist legacy among the old. Don’t discount the social conservative angle though. There’s alot of asian evangelicals. My step-daughter is Korean, her step-mom(my wife’s ex’s new so) was trying to get her to sign a petition for an inititive to remove the teaching of teh gay in CA history. The kid said no, never and don’t ask her sister to sign it. So the fundies are there too, though mainly on the older side.
PS I hope you’re driving to SB and then biking there, that’d be a long ride.
Mnemosyne
@lamh35:
I guess what I’m picturing is a deal where Obama pushes for X and activists are able to turn out Y number of votes in return. You know, the way pressuring politicians is supposed to work. :-) The DREAM Act was the example at the top of my head, but I’m sure there’s other legislation (comprehensive reform?) that could be bargained for.
And I’m not saying that this is stuff Obama wouldn’t normally support. It’s more, “Hey, if you make a big push for X, we can guarantee you X number of Latinos will vote for you.”
The problem, as always, is for the group making the promises to actually turn the vote out and deliver. But delivering votes is how you make yourself a powerful force within a political party, not withholding them.
Mr Stagger Lee
I can’t see Asians whether Chinese, Japanese or Indian voting for Romney especially Indians, when you have a base that is made up of Fox News watchers who think that all Indians are Al Qaida(don’t bother to tell a TeaTard that India is mostly Hindu and have their own issues with Muslims, or a person with a turban is Sikh not Muslim, they all look like to many Repubs)
Since also a meme that China will be a threat we will see a revival of the Yellow peril. If there is any group that may vote majority GOP are close it may be the Koreans they are very conservative in some ways.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
Under the Obama administration , the US deported more people than under the previous administration. This is a huge moral failing, and one of my biggest problems with the current Administration. In fact, it’s probably my single largest pain point on the domestic front. I’m pissed over it, actually.
We need the Dream Act, and Guest Worker.
The only articulated argument I’ve heard against Guest Worker is that when we tried it before, it was abusive to the workers. I’d like to cut that argument off at the knees before it gets out of the gate: I’d say people that hold this view aren’t looking at the big picture. The current system is abusive, but so much of it is not documented that it goes unnoticed. Putting Guest Worker in place will bring a lot of this out into the open, so we’ll “see” more abuse taking place, but such a system is the proper path moving forward in the long haul, even if it gives the appearance of getting worse before it gets better.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I am not driving, but I can’t bike quite that far. :-) I am taking Amtrak from the Glendale station thanks to a 20% discount offered by Car Free Santa Barbara.
There is some weirdness with Amtrak where certain trains to SB only allow bikes as checked baggage, but it seems to be a Saturday thing (possibly because Amtrak is often a Metrolink substitute on weekends?). As far as I can tell, the train I’m taking has a normal bike rack in the car where I can lock my bike up and unload it when we get to SB.
James E Powell
The latest polling by Latino Decisions show that the Obama / Romney split is holding at around 66/23.
If the Obama campaign would play it right, that would be closer to 80/20. Just replay the special moments from the primaries and don’t limit it to Romney. Republicans are not the party of white people, but the party of white people who don’t like other people.
James E Powell
@samuel:
They don’t have better representation for their issues because they don’t fucking vote. So they get EXACTLY the representation they deserve. Demographics or not they won’t get representation if they can’t be relied upon to vote!
I think this is not unique to Latinos. I recall reading something about the lowest-turnout demographic being single women under 30.
Every state and local Democratic Party ought to be going crazy on voter registration. Maybe they are, I do not know. But one way to combat the Republican efforts to suppress the vote is to register and vote despite their efforts.
Starfish
@FlipYrWhig: Immigration enforcement happens more under Democrats because Democrats understand math.
Basically, when creating a social safety net, someone has to pay for it. If there is suddenly a large population that has not paid into the social safety net require services from it, then things do not work.
A lot of the border states started screaming about immigration issues before anyone else cared because hospitals on the US side of the border were having to foot the bill for a lot of people who could not pay because they were not from the US. This applies to things like education too. Some of the reason why people have been screaming about instate tuition for the children of illegal immigrants is that those out of state tuitions really help some of the state universities.
Immigration is more lax under Republicans because you get labor that can be exploited, and Republicans are not going to create any new social programs to help illegal immigrants.
jl
The GOP neocon attempt to gin up the war machine in late 90s through 9/11, with the PRC had an impact in the Asian community too.
I don’t like the Obama deportation policies, and there are examples of horrible actions and violations of rights in the way it was done. So even if the many of the increased deportations could be justified, some of the abuses can not be justified.
So Obama has net delivered on immigration reform, and his deportation policy stinks. Versus a political party that publicly engages in race baiting and dog whistles, publicly proposes draconian immigration legislation, is actively trying to shut down opportunities for young people while spinning tale tales about how the shit sandwich will taste like honey, the repeated revelations in the media that their operatives and officials are addicted to lame, stupid, offensive racial and ethnic stereotypes of every description (though, definitely most insane over African-Americans)
I guess it is a choice between two evils. But one side is definitely more evil than the other.
Any people from these communities here have a comment on it? I mainly know from conversations with, and what I overhear from my studens and their friends and families.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
I’ll wave as your train goes by.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Starfish: Anybody that can do basic math understands that even with the social safety net, undocumented mexican labor is a net win for our country economically – at least as they exist now. With a sane guest worker program, that’d be even more the case.
For an example, anybody that works W2 on a fake SSN isn’t getting their tax refund – that “found money” is poured into social security slush funds which helps keep the whole mess afloat.
With proper paths to work here under a guest program, we could eliminate some of the large cost factors in our social safety net as well. Emergency room visits for example. People from mexico that aren’t familiar with how this stuff works regard Emergency as clinic visits. They don’t have the same setup there, and simply don’t know how it works. If they were oriented, that would help mitigate the problem. I could go on for PAGES, but I’ll stop here with that example. I’m a boots on the ground person here. We know these people, we know what goes on, and a lot about how this works. There’s a ton of things we could be doing better. Deporting folks isn’t helping anyone’s pocketbooks.
The Thin Black Duke
As comedian Paul Mooney observed, thanks to the GOP, the Hispanics got their “nigger wake-up call”.
jl
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
I grew up in an agricultural area in CA that was a real ethnic and racial mix. There has been constant movement back and forth across CA border of Hispanics in agriculture for well over 100 years. It is a fact, and only relative economic opportunities, and weather on either side of the border will affect it, and then only over short term.
So to me, the idea this kind of short to medium term economic immigration is bad thing that must be stopped, or some kind of newfangled crisis is laughable. Only question is how to handle it in way that is fair and provides most opportunities to the most vulnerable, which in my mind are small farmers and business and the immigrants.
Previous guest worker programs were very flawed and allowed exploitation. Any guest worker program will be flawed, but the relevant question is, what are the alternatives? There will be a lot of people moving across the border no matter what we do in the US, unless we turn the border into a new Berlin Wall, except maybe worse, which I guess is one of the GOP proposals that they use to fire up teanuts rage.
Yutsano
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
This is actually not true. Even taxes paid on a fake SSN still go to Treasury, and if due a refund that is not collected in three years goes to excess collections. The government can only use that money under limited circumstances, but it does not go to Social Security. That is a totally separate fund. And if they owe taxes they get pursued.
jl
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
What you say it true. Undocumented immigrant labor is a net plus economically for the US. Problem is that the money gains to the US goes into a thousand little pots and it cannot be spread around.
Businesses and some state and local governments see big wins in exploitable cheap labor and more taxes paid but not more services demanded. Some border communities get hit with extra costs.
Another argument for things like a national health care system and better social safety net.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@jl: I agree with most of your points, but it seems to fly in the face of this statement “So to me, the idea this kind of short to medium term economic immigration is bad thing that must be stopped,”. Maybe I’ve misread you. By stopped, it sounds like you mean “stop all immigration, and either keep from going home, or deport them all (I’m not sure which you mean but I’ll guess the latter). That said, if the latter is what you mean, it would DESTROY the most vulnerable folks you mention “which in my mind are small farmers and business and the immigrants.”, and create an economic black-hole where previously there was an economic driver.
Now, I agree that it’s not economically beneficial when viewed locally and in the very near term, but even now, nationally speaking, it’s a net gain. We still get ROI on welfare at current spending levels, we still get a net gain on the economic front, (like those farms that can keep running, for example). Reading the rest of your post, it seems that you understand that as well.
I guess I read you as though you are saying two different things. Maybe I’m just not clear on what you wrote.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Yutsano: I concede that I might be unclear on where the money is allocated. It is dropped into a slush fund, maybe not SS directly.
And based on wage levels, you won’t find many examples of folks in this position that would end up owing, so you may as well not have even raised that. It’s negligible to the point of not worth mentioning.
What happens is they get a SS mismatch notification and they don’t get their refund. That refund money (aka “found money”) winds up back in the hands of the govt. And at least in my state (and yours) we are pretty much a sanctuary state, which means that you’ll find that most undocumented workers end up under W2. Certainly in my county, speaking anecdotally of course, this is almost universally true. The “under the table” stuff is a myth, at least in my neck of the woods, as it exposes an employer to far too much liability.
jl
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
I think you misunderstood me. I am typing too fast since have to leave soon. I am in favor of some kind of guest worker, or some kind of special immigration status for agriculture and other lower skill work opportunities, at least in California.
I personally knew, and worked with, undocumented immigrants whose family histories of moving across the border for work and family business went back over 100 years.
To me the whole idea that economic immigration is some kind of problem is either stupidity, or a sign of racism, or stupid susceptibility to cynical political manipulation.
Undocumented Hispanic low skill workers have been in CA for, like, forever, in large numbers. We have to find the best way to deal with it.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@jl: and a sane Guest worker program wouldn’t hurt. It’d be far easier and less expensive for border towns to enforce if we removed the primary incentive for “illegal” immigration in the first place.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
To me, guest worker programs make the most sense for seasonal work like farm work since many of those workers only come to the US for the harvest and return home in the off-season.
For people who do want to make a year-round life in the US (or at least longer than 6-8 months or so), I would worry that shuffling them into a guest worker program would create a permanent underclass like they have in some European countries (IIRC Germany is pretty bad this way) where you have people who were born there and whose parents were born there but they are not citizens because their grandparents came as guest workers.
Roger Moore
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Maybe, maybe not. A lot of the “Republicans are good for business” among whites is a holdover from the time when they could make a stronger claim in that direction. Newer Asian immigrants are likely to see what the Republicans are doing now. Even the things the Republicans are doing that are supposed to be pro business are really more favorable to established businesses at the expense of newcomers, which isn’t going to win them a lot of friends among immigrants who are trying to get started and compete with those established businesses. Meanwhile, the hate for nonwhites comes through loud and clear.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Mnemosyne: The thing about guest worker is you have to limit the duration of the stay and demand of industries to make it work. It probably wouldn’t hurt to make the industries that “sign on” for it bear some of the costs as well, to discourage signing on just for the hell of it. It’d take some hammering out, but there are ways to regulate it that aren’t all that far fetched, but would probably require periodic tweaking (like pretty much any other regs out there)
Mnemosyne
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
IIRC, on the East Coast it’s not that unusual for people to live in one state and work in another, so it shouldn’t be that difficult in border areas for people to have jobs in the US but still live in Mexico. I think there are parts of Texas where this was very common to do up until around the 1980s.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Mnemosyne: Up until recently I had a job that was 100% telecommute, and was considering still working here at that job while living in Mexico. I’m not sorry for have quitting it, and I’ll be working down there instead, but I was on the path to becoming one of those myself =) And as far as state to state, I was doing that. My job was in Santa Monica, CA and I live in WA. I never even had a face to face with my boss =)
jl
Final blast before I go.
I think allowing noncitizens to vote in local elections is a good idea in certain circumstances. I remember reading that this happened throughout US history (Edit, but maybe not OK now, I am not sure), in times when half the population might have been recent immigrants.
So, compared to political spectrum, I guess I am pretty radical on that score. If you do that, less problem with isolation and exploitation of immigrant communities.
Not sure about voting for state offices, not sure if there is a precedent for that. But in local elections, residents should vote, and whether that vote should be limited to just citizens, or extended to some non-citizens should be made an a local case by case basis. But I think a state government framework for a system like that would be helpful.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@jl:
“To me the whole idea that economic immigration is some kind of problem is either stupidity, or a sign of racism, or stupid susceptibility to cynical political manipulation.
Undocumented Hispanic low skill workers have been in CA for, like, forever, in large numbers. We have to find the best way to deal with it.”
I completely agree. This.
Roger Moore
@jl:
The problem is that while immigration may be beneficial for the economy overall, its effects are felt unevenly and wind up creating winners and losers. Yes, immigrants help to build a more vibrant economy, but one of the ways they do that is by providing cheap labor that displaces established workers. That’s especially true of illegal immigration, since illegal immigrants are much easier for employers to exploit. Any good immigration policy has to provide some kind of help for the people who are losing out and, ideally, needs to crack down hard on the kind of exploitative illegal immigration that’s especially bad both for the immigrants and the people whose jobs they’re taking.
Valdivia
Just the title of this post made my day.
And I can attest that latinos definitely know all the ins and outs of the immigration laws. They know too who Kris Kobach is, so I hope the O Team will tie him to Romney big time.
David Koch
How many Latinos were in the audience?
Seriously, the netroots have always bragged about being “the base”, but watching the audiences, it kinda stood out that there were no…. you know…. dark people.
David Koch
it’s a little annoying hearing Markos and the progressive betters offering electoral advice when every campaign they’ve been involved in has failed. Ned Lamont, Darcy Brunner, Howard Dean, Bill Halter, the Walker Recall, and on and on and on have all failed. They’re worst than Bob Shrum. Yet, like Shrum, they act like they’re experts at winning.
Until you win, show some self awareness and perspective.
FlipYrWhig
@David Koch: Donna Edwards was a win, as were Jon Tester, Jim Webb, and Stephanie Herseth. Of course the three latter cases proceeded to be highly disappointing to liberalism, even if they were bracing to the idea that Democrats can win in hostile territory. But the original point of “netroots” electoral involvement had nothing to do with electing liberals, and I still remember passionate pleas for Oklahoma Senate candidate Brad Carson, who would have been a Nighthorse level thorn in the side of Senate Democrats.
David Koch
@FlipYrWhig: I can’t agree. In 2006, 95% (if not more) of GOS’ resources were directed at defeating Lieberman. There were only crumbs for Tester and Webb.
They gave some money to Herseth, but that was it. Balloon juice raised 50K for Obama in 2008, nobody here claim credits for OBama’s victory. nobody here claims to be electoral experts because they raised some cash.
Donna Edwards came within 3 pts of beating the corrupt Wynn by herself in 2006 when nobody had heard of her. She also had the endorsements of the local papers (including WaPo) and nearly every Democrat in the district. But leave it to bloogers, they jumped on a bandwagon as it’s speeding down hill, and then claimed to be the ones driving the vehicle.
I mean, none of that compares to raising $10 million for Bill Halter, hiring a pollster, creating and staffing his campaign blog, and blogging day and night about Arkansas.
Thymezone
Really. Well nothing will motivate Latino voters like Markos hiding behind his useless talk of grassroots politics as a cover for the fact that he is nothing but a policy wonk.
Maybe some more sessions on how the Dream act is/is not great policy in terms of voter motivation and turnout? Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Call this a crazy hunch, but voter turnout among low empowerment voters might depend on them feeling like somebody out there is fighting for them. If Democrats talked like they were fighting for Latinos, and grassroots efforts could go out and knock doors and talk up candidates who represented that fight … just imagine.
Or, never mind, sit around and listen to Markos chew his cud about the DREAM act and how much a wonk like him just loves stuff like that. Is he working on a new book yet? That will really drive the Latinos to the polls ……
xian
I thought the Obama-era deportations are mostly happening on-the-spot, at the border?