I’m looking at some online sales on laptops, and it’s interesting to see the different approaches. Dell just discounts a few specific models (most of them are last year’s). Apple will give you a $150 gift card (not bad, but there’s probably not $150 worth of swag that I want if I were to buy a Macbook). Lenovo, the ThinkPad people, seem to be the only retailer that is actually offering a discount.
That said, after all the trampling that’s gone on in the past few years, is it really wise for them to use “Doorbuster” as their coupon code?
Open thread.
Fuzzy
Got a Lenovo for Xmas last year. Great laptop but it has Windows 8 so it gathers dust unless I’m traveling and then it takes 15 minutes to ramp up because of constant updates. “your computer will restart in 2 days “
Bruuuuce
There are some deals on other brands (Toshiba, ASUS) around. The best collection of them I’ve seen is at fatwallet.com, though it happens that there is one of the not infrequent laptop collection sales going on at woot.com as well (on the front page).
I suspect we’ll see some more laptop deals this weekend, right on up to “Cyber Monday.” (Given that they’re now calling Thanksgiving “Gray Thursday” because it’s pale shadow of Black Friday, I wonder if we can change “Cyber” to “Cyan” without anyone noticing? :-) )
Brandon
ThinkPads used to be great machines, butLenovo is slowly but surely destroying the brand. They have a complete inability to innovate and create new models that work well. I got the X1 Carbon at work and it is a disaster. Another colleague got an X230 and it is fine, but it is basically the same laptop they’ve been selling for 6 years, with some updates, and was first introduced by IBM. Just so you’re warned.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
If I were ever to get a non-apple product again, it would be a chrome book.
kbuttle
I stuck by Lenovo well past the point of practicality and into embarrassed frustration. Such was the power of the love and loyalty that IBM generated with their Thinkpad. What a disaster Chinese purchase of the laptop division has been. I’m four deep, each time convincing myself the last one/two/three had just been lemons. Just awful. And from such a pedestal atop the laptop world . . .
MattF
You can spend $150 on big, fast USB external storage and/or an additional big external hard disk– and more external memory is always a good thing.
kbuttle
Thinkpad used to be more expensive, but you could know that you got what you paid for. Now it’s more expensive but an ever deteriorating product line that is coasting on reputation. So what’s left where you can pay more and get what you pay for – Apple? I really don’t know, but am just about ready to give up on the X301 and take another plunge, so anyone got a capable machine they love? Mostly statistical software, graphing programs, and such as applications.
Shakezula
My mind still struggles with the idea that electronics are now like cars:
I only use my computer and laptop for basic things, but I find it hard to believe the laptop I got for my birthday this year will be significantly inferior to whatever Dell puts out next year or the year after that. Our computer is 11,000 years old in electronic years and it still does what we want it to, with fewer issues than the much newer PoS I use at work. (Although part of that may be our surly servers.)
At least they don’t have seasons, like clothes. Yet.
WereBear
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): I have a Mac Air and a Chromebook.
I love the Chromebook, but had to have Scrivener because I’m working on a book. Once you use a dedicated piece of writing software like that, a layout-oriented word processor like Word or Pages just does not cut it.
They all have the same drawbacks as the Google word processor in Drive. Even breaking up the book into chapters made things slow down horribly. And then you are constantly reloading things and going back and forth. You can’t search the entire work, for instance.
So I gave up making a web-based system work for me and got the Air which is made of awesome. Fate held me back until I got the 10 hour battery, so that’s okay.
If anyone has heavy duty needs that only software will fill, then choose according to what runs the software. What amazed me, in a year and a half of using my Chromebook, is how much can get done on the Web with a browser.
I got one for my Mom & brother, and they love theirs. Very cost effective for a lot of people.
MattF
@kbuttle: I’m happy with my iMacs, both at home and at work– but you should be very sure that there are OS X equivalents for whatever you do.
Applejinx
…I guess I’ll change my name ;)
Villago Delenda Est
@Shakezula:
Probably won’t be, unless you use cutting edge software apps too. Of course, there is a vast conspiracy in tech to “upgrade” things in order to force other “upgrades” to deal with the previous upgrades. Windoze has been bloatware for decades, seemly designed to nullify any advances in hardware speed with more crap “features” that no one has every asked for or needed.
For the vast majority of things, you don’t need much. Just look at BJ…I don’t need a muscle graphics card for it or 99% of web content. Games, on the other hand, live to be visually cutting edge…eye candy is so damn important to impressing the moron MBAs who greenlight the things, you know…
Bill E Pilgrim
Not really, but who you gonna call to complain?
Comrade Mary
I got an Asus laptop to use as my desktop machine (Photoshop, web development, etc.) because it has such a good rep and generally a smaller load of crapware, but I am less than thoroughly satisfied with mine.
1) It’s too freakin’ heavy and large to be truly portable. One reason I got a Macbook last year was to make it a dual boot machine that I could take out to client visits without cursing and weeping.
2) The USB 3.0 port used to only function as a USB 2 port. After several driver updates, it doesn’t work at all. (Le Guy has the same model and his USB 3 port works: I got the lemon).
3) The CD/Bluray drive doesn’t burn CDs, which I just found out the other day when a trial download from Microsoft turned out to be available only as an ISO. (I just bought an external Asus drive, which works perfectly .. although iTunes is lying and saying that it can’t see it even though it can.)
4) Speakers? SUCK.
5) Webcam? SUCKS.
I guess I just have to get moving on making my Mac dual bootable.
Mystical Chick
I need a new laptop and have been perusing the sites this morning. I really REALLY don’t want Win8 but seems like that’s a have to get unless you buy a Mac. (which I’d love but they’re so so pricey).
My almost 4 year old Toshiba is about to bite the dust, methinks. I’ll be checking this thread to see if the BJ community can offer me any good suggestions/deals/whatnot today.
JCJ
@WereBear:
I bought a Chromebook for my daughter to use at school. She would definitely agree with your assessment. She still uses her laptop for some things, but her main device is the Chromebook. She has lupus so she sometimes has significant stiffness in her fingers making regular note taking difficult. The university has wi-fi everywhere so she can take her notes on the Chromebook and keep everything in Drive. It has worked out very well for her.
Amir Khalid
@Villago Delenda Est:
The consumer tech industry has for decades now been focused on mentally conditioning people to buy Product Version n + 1 and junk the still-working Version n. It’s great for their revenue stream, but it doesn’t do a damn thing for you. Why don’t they engineer stuff to remain usable for more than a couple of years? There’s no technical reason not to, and it would be more environmentally responsible.
Here in Malaysia, Lynas, an Australian company is trying to set up a rare-earth processing plant, to cater to consumer electronics manufacturers. The waste from processing rare-earth ores is very toxic: the last such plant in Malaysia, owned by a company in the Mitsubishi keiretsu, was closed 20 years ago and became a US$200 million clean-up project. Environmental activists here have been fighting the Lynas project for years.
dmsilev
@kbuttle: I’ve been happy with my MacBook Pro as a data analysis etc. machine, but a lot will depend on what specific software packages you need. Many are available for OSX, but if a particular favorite of yours isn’t, you’re probably better off with a native Windows box rather than screwing around with running Windows in a VM on the Mac (which does work, but is a bit annoying to use for something you might need daily).
Viva BrisVegas
@Mystical Chick: If you don’t like the look of Windows 8, you can try installing a freebie called Classic Shell.
liberal
I have a lenovo Edge (535 or something). Don’t use it for much. Only complaint so far is that it’s pulled this shit where the charging cord is plugged in, but it’s not charging. Oh, also it has a plastic case, and there some kind of imprint or scratches from the keys on the screen.
Overall, ok for the money I paid.
Thanks for the info re Lenovo not holding up the IBM rep.
WereBear
I find the initial higher payment to be offset by their longevity.
I hung onto my old clamshell iBook for seven years; needed software which would run OSX. Then I was happy for years with an old Aluminum Powerbook I bought used. We just this year had to trade in Mr WereBear’s machine because he uses Logic and other high-demand software, but his old iMac was from 2008.
We max out the memory and we are good for years, especially so if you don’t need the latest operating system. Look at the reconditioned units at PowerMax. Tell Michelle I sent you!
dmsilev
@Mystical Chick: one thing which can ease the bite of the Apple Tax is to take a look at their factory refurb models (there’s a link way down at the bottom of the online Apple store). Current or year-ago models, with full warranty, at anywhere up to 25% off list. Still not cheap, but more reasonable, and with the warranty etc, the risk is basically zero.
Southern Beale
I just bought a new Mac a week and a half ago because old one went kaput. If you’re a teacher, you get a teacher’s discount. I saved $250. Just FYI.
In other news, Baaah Friday. The only thing I’m buying today is my Christmas tree.
Tripod
Once I got my mitts on a Surface Pro 2, Windows 8 made sense. Whether they can execute is another question.
IBM was right in unloading the laptop line. These are products in rapidly decaying or orbits.
If you’re looking for an old school tank, the business line HPs are alright.
Ripley
‘Security Guard Trampler’ was considered, but dropped for being too accurate.
Tripod
PS I’m posting from a HTC DNA.
Josie
@Mystical Chick: Two years ago, I saved my money for a couple of months and bought a refurbished MacBook Air from the Apple store online. I have been so happy with it and have had zero problems. It is not cheap, even refurbished, but I really believe you get what you pay for.
MikeJ
@Tripod:
Windows 8 makes sense on a tablet. The idea that a desktop computer and a tablet should function identically is moronic.
WereBear
@JCJ: It sounds like it was a great choice!
My friends were all surprised that I keep passing up the iPad… but I gotta have a real keyboard.
I blog, I’m working on another book, I comment on Balloon Juice… I can’t do that with an iPad, even with the bluetooth keyboard. I have tried using friend’s machines.
As I read somewhere on the web, tablets are great for content consumption. Content creation is a whole other thing.
Mystical Chick
Thanks for all the links and advice.
Got hubs a refurbished mac a year ago when he found keylogging software on his PC (used to hack into our bank account and ACH money out which I caught pronto because I’m good like that!) – he loves his. I should just bite the bullet and do it especially since I can write it off for my business.
:)
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Mystical Chick:
I echo dminslv @22. Also, apple offers a small discount if you work for an educational facility, or if you are a student.
The new billet aluminum bodies are bombproof, as well.
Villago Delenda Est
@MikeJ:
Made in Redmond. Dummmmb!
Kristine
Apple products last, at least the laptops. My 2004 iBook is still running, but the internet has passed it by–websites have gotten too big, with too many moving parts. I still have it as a worst case back-up because Scrivener still runs on it. My 5 yo MacBook bit the dust over the summer, and I replaced it with an Air because battery life/solid state drive/light weight. I thought about a Chromebook because of the lower price, but it would have been the non-Apple in an Apple house–I’m not particularly tech savvy and can’t afford to take the time the hunt down the bridging software/fixes.
My iMac lasted only three years. Never replaced it because I realized I don’t do anything that requires desktop power.
Kristine
And in case no one’s mentioned it, Small Dog offers Mac refurbs and discounts:
The Red Pen
@Kristine:
I think that if I was going to make my #1 machine a laptop, I would get a Mac for this reason. Since my laptops is an ersatz system that I can move to wherever I want it, I went for a cheep PC. It might not last another year, but it’s also 25% the cost of a Mac laptop.
Eric U.
@MikeJ:
The first time I used win 8 was on a 24″ monitor. It was clear from the layout that it was meant to work well on a phone . Win 7 is probably the best desktop interface that Microsoft has ever offered, and they just dumped it. A laptop would be very useful to me, but the idea of going to win 8 just makes it so I’d rather wait. I would prefer to put Linux on a laptop, but nobody wants to pay me to do that so I’m stuck with windows.
WereBear
I gotta be portable. Mr WereBear has an unpredictable schedule and our apartment is too small for a room of my own. With a laptop I can move to any room he’s not in.
My bro moved to the opposite coast and traded his iMac to me for book & cd shipping, and (this was a surprise to him) a Chromebook. Turned out to be a revelation; does everything he wants, super-simply, virus-proof as it gets these days, portable, and doesn’t cost him a cent in software or upkeep.
His older iMac went into our living room, where it is doing great as an Internet TV, podcasting studio, and music player at social events. But the only place it fits is under the eaves and sitting at it for writing drives me crazy.
Just FYI, I still have my Chromebook and switch between it and a Mac Air. The Chrome browser is seamless between the two, and the Chromebook works offline with email and writing apps, so it still works for me that way.
The Chromebook has become “the laptop that leaves the house” because it’s so much cheaper in case of accident and everything is stored in the Cloud.
Tripod
@Eric U.:
They dumped win 7 because nobody was buying it. Nobody is buying it because no business wants a full featured desktop or laptop in every seat. They will put as little money as possible into that market segment going forward.
FridayNext
DPM: For statistical purposes, mainly used to convince shoppers how popular shopping is on Thanksgiving weekend, companies that collect this data count as a shopper anyone who visits (but doesn’t necessarily buy) a physical or online outlet. And shopper does not mean “person.” Visit 2 store? You are 2 shoppers.
Congratulations. You are now at least 3 shoppers for next years stats to “prove” just how popular Black Friday shopping is and how much Americans just love it.
Villago Delenda Est
@FridayNext:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
The Red Pen
While most of us are avoiding “Black Friday,” the wingnut universe continues to digest the Pope recent slam on “unfettered capitalism.” Prominent Free Republic Catholic, NYer defended the comments with this incoherent blurb:
NYer seems to be saying that Jesus’ admonitions to help the poor and his slams against the rich made sense when there was no social safety net. Now that there’s a social safety net, Jesus would undoubtedly slam those in it. Thus, we must put these people back at “the mercy of society” so we can be nice to them again? Can anyone else parse this.
Also, too:
1. Jesus never put any restrictions on how one would help the poor.
2. There were social safety nets. The whole practice of tithing (giving 10% to the community) was mainly to build a reserve of socialized resources to help cushion the blow of misfortune in the community.
3. A frequent complaint of prophets in the Bible is the failure of wealthy societies to take care of their poor (i.e. provide a social safety net). The major prophet Isaiah warns that God is displeased with Sodom and Gomorrah because they are unjust and greedy, not because of teh gayz. In Isaiah 1:17, he counsels them to “learn to do good; seek justice, rescue the oppressed, defend the orphan, plead for the widow.” This is a challenge to the government of these city states.
Feh. Thanksgiving makes me cynical.
Gene108
@The Red Pen:
From what I have been told right-wing Christians believe they, through their church, should have the sole authority of aiding the poor.
So if the church dislikes your tattoos, they can withhold charity from you until the church feels you have sufficiently atoned in their eyes.
The goal of the Bible is not just helping the poor, but using the poor to enhance the power of the church on society, per what I am told by folks about right-wing worldview.
Government funded social safety net undercuts the role and power of churches by giving aid to “those people”, who have not found their way to Christ.
The Red Pen
@Gene108: Yes, because nobody treats the homeless better than church-goin’ folk.
This “clergy dresses up as a homeless man and comes to church” trick has, apparently, caught on and become a trend. Every time it makes the news, the core of the story is that the church-goers are total assholes to the apparent homeless man.
sparrow
@Amir Khalid: There’s always linux. I’ve been quite happy with my Zareason laptop. No degredation in performance whatsoever, and I completely control everything. Bit of a learning curve, but that’s the price of freedom, eh?
MazeDancer
Echoing all those mentioning Mac’s and longevity. (And knocking wood for continued experience of same.)
Three or four years is usual lap top expectancy. And I’m self-employed and using the machines every day. Actually, the machines will go on much longer, but with the OS changes, sometimes one has to upgrade. All my ten year old iMacs and PowerBooks boot up just fine still. But, alas, my need for everything Adobe and their switch to Cloud continual payment draining plan, means little utility for the older machines.
Have often bought refurbs at Apple.com. Same warranty. If it’s a laptop, you’re going to buy AppleCare anyway. (Just had a MBP logic board replaced free a few months short of 3 years.)
Factor in happiness and reliability, and, yes, it’s a hit, but amortized over the long run, less so.
Plus, I have never had to buy Word. Or any Microsoft software. Or ever use Windows. (Use Pages with clients and their Word documents. Export from Pages to a .doc file for them. Been just fine. Same for Keynote for Power Point. And Numbers for reading Excel. Though I don’t do spreadsheets, so can’t comment on that.)
The Red Pen
@sparrow:
Yes, but there are lots of helpful how-to videos on the net… which you probably won’t be able to watch with your Linux system because Linux multimedia is a fucking train wreck.
This is the reason I even have a Windows system.
NotMax
@Mystical Chick
You can still order a brand-new Dell from them online and choose Win7.
Anonymous At Work
I like my full keyboard Lenovo laptop. Great price for a MS Office and wifi-leeching platform. If you want more, I’d go with something else though.
Kristine
@WereBear:
Good to know-thanks!. When the iBook gives up the ghost, I may get a Chromebook as my back-up.
? Martin
@MazeDancer: Yeah, our Macs are lasting a solid 5 years. Long enough that mom and dad can get new machines every 2-3 years and hand theirs down to the kids for another 2-3 years.
But another angle is resell value. My son bought a $1200 MacBook Pro 3 years ago and will be replacing it with another $1200 MacBook Pro, but selling his old machine is netting him $600. So getting onto the treadmill was expensive, but now that he’s on it, $200/yr keeps him in relatively fast laptops. The new one has the retina display, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD. He’s upgrading because he’s doing more software development, particularly 3D stuff, and
Apple products are notorious for being expensive, but internally their rule of thumb on pricing is $1/day for the expected life of the device. A $1200 laptop should last you 4 years. An iPad 2 years, etc. The iPhone is an outlier due to the subsidy, but it would normally price for $400 (about 2 years). The devices usually retain ⅓ or more of their resale value over that time.
So, think of it differently – is the computer you use, for some of us 8+ hours a day, worth $1 for that time – or $.40 more per day than a Dell, etc?
Jerzy Russian
@The Red Pen:
My main machine is a year old MacBook Pro. I maxed out the RAM at 16 GB and replaced the optical drive with a 1 TB drive for a total of 1.7 TB of disk space. I can do code development and data processing wherever I am. I still have a fleet of powerful Linux boxes to run simulations, etc. This is my third laptop. The first Macbook went 6 years, and the second went 3. In both cases, the screens went tits-up. They were still useable with an external monitor, but then at that point they were desktops.
Jerzy Russian
@The Red Pen:
Indeed. Also, I find that OpenOffice really does not work 100% correctly in dealing with .doc and .xls files. My MacBook has a UNIX-like environment on it (e.g. the regular OS), and I get discounted Office software, so I am happy.
ruemara
Since this is a tech thread, maybe one of you savvy types can help. I got a new Belkin dual band router and I’m happy with the extra security, but now my entire network is very unstable. The HP Photosmart is configured to be wireless, yet I can’t get it visible on the wireless network on the mac or the dell, consistently. It takes up to an hour of tweaking, checking, cussing, reinstalling, etc and usually the only method is to hook it up via USB to print. The LaCie CloudBox NAS was working fine too, now I can’t see it on the Mac at all, which is a huge setback, since that’s my big editing laptop and being able to upload footage from the dell and store it on the NAS so I don’t have to run from living room to bedroom with a hard drive is the reason I got a damned NAS in the first place. I can only connect to the CLoudBox using the IP dashboard via browser, it’s absolutely not visible on the mac at all. When I use Network Utility, it pings and sees the CloudBox just fine. I’ve been dealing with this nonsense since 8:30 am today, it’s now 11am. Yesterday it was the printer from 9:20 to 10 am. It’s not once in a while, it’s every damned day I need to print or connect to the server. The only thing I’ve managed to fix is the connection to the server from the dell. That seems to be correct. I don’t know how network admins can deal with this bull.
Ked
My company has been selling Lenovo laptop systems alongside our whiteboxes for a couple of years. It’s been a somewhat mixed experience.
The hardware, other than short period where we got a couple of models in which would not charge their batteries, has seemed relatively solid. There are a couple of low-end models with idiot trackpad layouts but otherwise it seems to be good equipment. Wireless is slightly fussy, but as long as you keep it away from Sonicwall AP’s it should be good.
My big gripe is the layers of crapware they’ve slathered on top of it all. Fortunately most of it is removable, but one shouldn’t have to spend three hours opting out of addon services and security and network interfaces and driver downloading tools and I don’t know what all. Blech.
Ron Beasley
I just purchased a new laptop. I looked at Apple but I could get a high end Windows PC for less than I would pay for a low end MAC. I went with Dell because they still have Windows 7 machines available.
wasabi gasp
Anybody like logic puzzle games for Android? For free? It’s not an app of the day as far as I can tell, but for some reason the game Quell is available for free right now.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055SWM08
I’m not a gamer, and I hardly use my tablet, but it’s a pretty good puzzle game.
Bitter and Deluded Lurker
I thought Thinkpad quality was spotty before IBM bought them, and I had pretty extensive experience with them up until about 2008.
For example, we still used 380D and similar models in our test lab ten years later. The next generation, which if I remember correctly included the 390X, was a nice laptop to use but every single user (including me) returned them in a bag. They just fell apart. Most of our users were doing little more than opening them up twice a day (once at the office, once at home).
Later models seemed to alternate between very good and seriously flawed. I think the last IBM-manufactured model had a wireless chip that would shut down when the power supply was unplugged.
For personal use, I use a MacBook Pro. I got 5 years out of my last one, and gave it to a friend of mine who needed it.
Mike G
I think MAD Magazine did an article on this once.
“The Firestone Tires Blowout Sale!”
Robert Sneddon
@Eric U.: First time I used Win8 was on a 27″ monitor, about two years ago. I’m still using it on a 27″ monitor at 2560×1440 with a 24″ monitor in portrait mode as a second display for page proofing.
It takes one mouse-click to go to a standard Win7-a-like desktop from the initial tiled Start Menu layout. An amazing number of people have never discovered this hidden mode in Windows 8, it seems. Heck it even has a DOSbox command line mode as well, accessed by the arcane runes “run cmd.exe” which have been part of Windows since at least Win2k. I have mine set up as white text on dark green in honour of the Tektronix 4014 storage display units I used to program Moon Lander variants on.
Ron Beasley
@Robert Sneddon: Wow, I was the manufacturing engineer in the department that made the DVSTs for the 4014.
Susan S
Umm..late to the chat..but I only buy Lenovas..for the little red dot. It’s right in the middle of the keyboard and works as a great mouse. I trade stocks for my clients..use my laptops for everything..and love the red dot mouse because my hand never leaves the letters..and it is much quicker than the larger feely pads at the bottom. I have had a 230, a.., and now use the Carbon X190..I hate MSFT also..but all trading is done on it so I am stuck. I’m not a geek..someone else always sets my computers up for me..but I finally figured out how to use Windows8..it loads faster, I ignore the excess, and finally, I like the quality of my Lenovas. Buy one or two at least every other year..the old ones go to charity after clearing, all in good working shape. And compared to what I paid just 5 years ago..these are truly cheap now. Do yourself a favor..next time you buy a laptop spend two or three hundred more and get the Lenova version. You won’t be sorry..you’ll just get spoiled, as I am.
eddie blake
loved and lived with IBM thinkpads for years, hadda six or seven year old R series lenovo that was a TANK.
i killed it with carelessness, had no problems at all with the machine
now on the l420 running 64bit win7-
another VERY solid machine. i don’t need it to be innovative, i don’t need it to move at warp speeds, i need it to WORK
and it does just that VERY well…