I hope President Obama unilaterally pardons Melania on his last day in office. https://t.co/n4KujbsYrP
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) August 30, 2016
Trump's modeling agency employed models without work visas https://t.co/CzAD7neHKI pic.twitter.com/HaK2XLFh4p
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 30, 2016
But seriously: Good for President Obama…
Obama has now commuted 673 sentences, nearly equal to the 690 commutations issued by his 11 predecessors combined https://t.co/JbA4S5f043
— Mark Berman (@markberman) August 30, 2016
President Obama on Tuesday commuted the sentences for 111 inmates, the latest in his push to ease harsh penalties given to nonviolent drug offenders.
Obama has been critical of what he has called the “devastating” effects of severe sentences handed down during the country’s war on drugs. He became the first sitting president to visit a federal prison, and spoke there about the importance of “second chances.”…
Obama said that he hoped the bipartisan push for criminal justice reform could wind up weighing how to fight crime alongside “the need for proportionality in sentencing and the need to rehabilitate those who commit crimes”…
redshirt
Sadly it’s a drop in a large lake. So very many lives ruined because they had a bag of weed or sold an ounce and were the wrong color.
Jeffro
It would not shock me to see another several hundred folks’ sentences commuted between now and January, and kudos to the President for that.
satby
Because they’re not very sympathetic victims, prison and sentencing reform is low on the priority list. It should be higher, there’s a huge need to clean up the prison mess and the injustice of mandatory sentencing.
Mr.Mack
Repairing lives….not a bad legacy.
Adam L Silverman
If you read the MoJo article on the modeling agency, they basically were running the same playbook for exploiting the models that is used for exploiting migrant farm workers. Somewhere between indentured servitude and slavery. If that article breaks widely into the news, and I would estimate that there will be a concerted effort to ignore it by the mainstream/corporate press, it would force a criminal investigation.
debbie
@satby:
Sorry to interrupt, but congratulations on the job!
Major Major Major Major
Ok, discussion topic. The California assembly just unanimously passed mandatory minimums for raping an unconscious person. I think mandatory minimums are bad and that this is stupid. What are arguments to the contrary?
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: So white prep school boys have to serve time?
lamh36
@CNNMoney
Ryan Lochte’s new endorsement deal is for a crime prevention device. Really.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: because a mandatory minimum statute is totally the correct response to a single case.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: What’s the minimum?
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: It seems like I’ve heard of several lately. I don’t follow the topic closely though.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: now equal to that for rape with physical force. Phone not cooperating with finding number.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
I heard a report on NPR today about this. Evidently this is a very high priority for POTUS, the more so since he made that prison visit and met some of the inmates personally and heard their stories. He has one staffer essentially dedicated to this issue and getting as many commutation recommendations to the President’s desk between now and January 19 as possible.
dmsilev
So apparently Trump is giving a Major Immigration Speech(tm) tomorrow and as far as I can tell, we don’t really have a clue of what policies he’s pretending to believe in this week yet. And this is supposedly his signature issue, build the wall and all that tripe. Is there anybody who is voting for Trump for any reason beyond incoherent rage at the universe?
Baud
@dmsilev: Tax cuts uber alles.
rikyrah
Alex Seitz-Wald ✔ @aseitzwald
Clinton has more offices in NC (30) than Trump has in NC, FL, PA, NH, IA, CO, NV, and AZ…combined (28).
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
@satby:
What, what?? I missed some important news. Job?
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: not that I’m aware of–unconscious, convicted, and in California don’t fit. Regardless it’s not like the law clarifies rich white jocks who weren’t railroaded. This is one of the ways we get mandatory minimums, which we tend to complain about most of the time.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I think it’s the level of the minimum compared to the crime that’s the issue. Most serious crimes have some minimum.
Adam L Silverman
@satby: You got the job? Congratulations!
dmsilev
@rikyrah: Yes, but remember that Trump’s offices have hats. That counts for something.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: is that good? It’s not like somebody is going to go crime shopping and decide to rape somebody who’s unconscious instead of sell meth just because there’s no mandatory minimum.
Jeffro
@SiubhanDuinne:
You know, I almost would have guessed…thank you for the confirmation, though. Great to hear.
Thanks a lot 44, those are some big shoes to fill! Fortunately 45 appears up to the challenge!
scav
Is Major Major Major Major just Really Really Really Really hoping that that get off easy card if she’s unconscious card stays in play? Or, is it So, why not play for attention and throw out this theoretical ideal and start an inane discussion where he can feel brave brave brave brave and edgy edgy edgy edgy? Because it does seem to be a recent hobby.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Relying too much on judges discretion can lead to significant sentencing disparities. It’s a tough issue.
dedc79
Predicting Doug J’s next post:
Woh, Mexico, it sounds so simple, I just got to go.:
schrodinger's cat
@scav: Yesterday he was arguing for militarized borders.
slag
@Adam L Silverman: Agreed on all counts. Though the labor of modeling is likely far less intensive than the labor of working a farm (I’m just guessing here—I’ve never done either), the exploitation is no less real.
The Thin Black Duke
@Major Major Major Major: No, but what it means is you go to jail for goddamned rape. Jesus. There’s no grey area here.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Does any serious crime get effected by a possible sentence? Is a murderer really thinking about the DP when he murders? Seems unlikely.
dmsilev
@dedc79: I trust Mexico will be quickly building a tall wall (perhaps around the airport?) to keep him out.
Baud
@dedc79: Does Nieto know?
Gin & Tonic
@schrodinger’s cat: He was just *asking the question*, yo. Totally different.
Peale
@rikyrah: good. Since she’s now fallen behind in the polls in that state, she needs to drag as many souls to the polls as she can.
Iowa Old Lady
@dedc79: Good lord. There goes our relationship with Mexico.
dmsilev
@Baud: You should read the article; it’s hilarious. Normally, Presidential candidates doing foreign trips arrange things weeks ahead of time, because logistics, security, scheduling, etc. Trump is trying to set this up _hours_ ahead of time.
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: Yes, let’s all pile on M4 for asking a question. As we all know, mandatory minimum sentences did wonders for the drug war, and 3 strikes and you’re out has been hugely successful in California.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Baud: I probably come down here as well. But I can see corner cases….
Are there mandatory minimums for manslaughter? Voluntary Manslaughter has 3, 6, or 11 years plus get “one strike”. It looks like Involuntary Manslaughter has a minimum 1 year sentence. Are they appropriate there? I can see why people would say so.
Rape is a horrible crime. It must be taken seriously by the police and prosecutors. We rightfully give prosecutors lots of discretion in deciding who to charge and what to charge them with, but that discretion can be abused.
Should judges have less discretion than prosecutors? That makes me uncomfortable….
I don’t know how to balance all these issues except by trying to make sure that sensible people have these positions of authority. I would like to think that a judge who gives a lenient sentence for a serious crime has a better reason for doing so that seeing is much younger self in the rapist. :-(
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Amir Khalid
@dmsilev:
As I recall, his “policy speeches” fall flat either because he reads them off the TelePrompTer, or because they degenerate into the usual off-the-cuff rant against nothing in particular.
redshirt
@schrodinger’s cat: So how does this relate to India?
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: that’s what I was saying.
@Baud: I guess I err on the side of discretion especially since we get buyer’s remorse so often with minimums. And laws passed in this much of a panic are often bad.
@schrodinger’s cat: uh huh.
Iowa Old Lady
@dmsilev: Maybe Trump wants to collect an IOU saying Mexico will pay.
The Thin Black Duke
@redshirt: Oh yeah, going to jail for a bag of weed is the same as going to jail for raping an unconscious woman.
dmsilev
@Amir Khalid: This one is going to be …interesting, because of Trump’s well-remarked-upon tendency to agree with whoever “advised” him most recently combined with the rather strong tensions pulling the various factions of the GOP and his campaign apart. Real question will be who gets to program the TelePrompTer.
lamh36
@costareports
SCOOP w/ @karendeyoung1: Trump considering last-minute meeting in Mexico with country’s president
redshirt
@The Thin Black Duke: The issue that M4 is raising is mandatory sentencing, not the nature of the crime.
schrodinger's cat
@Gin & Tonic: He was more than just asking the question, his words were
dedc79
@Iowa Old Lady: I mean, putting aside my own very strong anti-trump biases for just a moment, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING?
Major Major Major Major
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: thanks, you’ve basically articulated my position better than I could. On that equation I lean very heavily towards statutory leniency in most cases and place trust in the people making the decisions to be smarter than a blanket law would be. So, I’m against mandatory minimums as a matter of course.
Maybe that’s wrong, but saying I was arguing for a militarized border yesterday (I wasnt) is a lousy way to make that argument.
Bobby Thomson
@Major Major Major Major: idk. In this case I’d say it’s stupid because you’re less likely to get convictions.
redshirt
@lamh36: Heh. That will never happen. And if somehow it does, I hope President Nieto punks him.
schrodinger's cat
@redshirt: What is this? Mandatory minimums or militarized borders?
redshirt
@schrodinger’s cat: Fun fact! Our borders with Canada and Mexico are already secured!
The Thin Black Duke
@redshirt: Yeah, because leaving it to the discretion of the judges has worked out so well, especially if the rapist is a white kid whose parents got money.
redshirt
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m sure you can find a way to tie either to India.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Nazi.
redshirt
@The Thin Black Duke: Gosh, that’s what I said earlier!
schrodinger's cat
@redshirt: I was not aware that M4 has assigned you as his defense.
Adam L Silverman
@slag: I wasn’t trying to equate the two in terms of hardship. Eight people in a two bedroom upscale apartment in NY is not the same as 20 crammed into a wooden cabin in Ruskin, FL.
Bobby Thomson
@dmsilev: maybe he got ideas from Sanders’ stalk-a-pope junket. If I were the Mexican police I’d be sure to frisk him.
redshirt
@schrodinger’s cat: You cast stones from a glass house.
Anne Laurie
@Major Major Major Major:
You’re fixating on the wrong issue. The problem, IIRC, was that CA laws were written so that it could be argued “If the victim didn’t protest, it wasn’t rape” — even if the victim were unconscious. (Even if the rapist had rendered the victim unconscious!) That loophole, obvs, needed sealing. Your issue is that mandatory minimum sentencing wasn’t the right way to do the job. But the way you’ve presented it makes it seem like you’re siding with the “hey, failure to object is objectively consent, that’s just logic” dudebros, and I am SURE you don’t wanna be on that team.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: All of our research on the deterrence of criminal sanctions is there is very little. This is why we know that the death penalty, for instance, has no deterrent effect. In fact most people can’t actually correctly define most crimes or the potential penalties for them.
dmsilev
@Bobby Thomson: Nah, Air Trump doesn’t serve food nearly as good as what Sanders and his folks had on that trip; Donald is more a KFC and so forth kind of guy.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: if you can come up with a better way to solicit opinions than “I think ——–, what are arguments to the contrary?” I’ll say that next time.
Peale
@redshirt: how fast is a jet anyway? Mexico City isn’t exact 2 miles south of El Paso. Does he expect Nieto to meet him at the airport so he can be told that he’s going to be humiliated unless he hands over 20 billion to build a wall?
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
I don’t think mandatory minimums are stupid as an abstract principle, but they’ve been abused to deny judges any real discretion. I don’t have a big problem with the legislature saying, in effect, that 5-10 years means 5-10 years for everyone, and judges shouldn’t be free to give a slap on the wrist to sympathetic (i.e. rich, white) convicts while throwing the book at unsympathetic (i.e. poor, black) convicts when the facts of the cases are similar. The problem is that mandatory minimums have often been set at the same time the minimum itself has been raised, so that people are suddenly getting much harsher sentences with no room for mercy.
amk
@Major Major Major Major: male entitlement?
lamh36
@redshirt: Trump gon cause an international incident in Mexico and then PBO gonna have to swoop in and save his azz…smh
schrodinger's cat
@dmsilev: Eating all that fast food is a gimmick, to demonstrate D’s common touch. That’s my hunch.
dmsilev
@dedc79:
“If Donald appears with Noted Hispanic Guy The President Of Mexico, that will Prove that He’s OK With Hispanics”.
Just like appearing with Insert Noted Black Guy Here will inevitably raise his approval ratings in the African American community to the unimaginable heights of maybe 2 or 3 percent. Maybe.
Major Major Major Major
@Anne Laurie: thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I guess it’s kind of like the no-fly/no-buy thing, the mechanism is (IMO) flawed but we should apply it equally in the meantime. Note that this is obviously a similarity in shape not content or severity.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodinger’s cat: Two great tastes that taste great together: Mandatory minimum militarization of borders. Every border must have at least a 30 foot wall with razor wire in top. But if you want to go higher or add a moat or landmines or a moat with alligators or alligators that have been mined, then that’s okay too!
Anne Laurie
@dedc79:
1) New headlines!
2) ???
3) Moar votes for Trump!
Nah, not really. I doubt there are many Underpants Gnome believers left in the Trump campaign management (only among his deluded followers). But headlines are good for the Grift, and the Grift is all Trump (and his kids, and Bannon, and Conway, and Lewindowski, et al) really cares about now.
trollhattan
Are there miniature cattle? I ask because my kid told me of watching some kind of critter being unloaded from a trailer at a neighbor’s house. When she walked past later this morning a “small cow” was watching her from the front window.
I know we’re the farm-to-fork capital of the solar system but this seems a bit much. OTOH they’re very strange folks so I’m not ruling anything out.
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Agreed. Thus there is no argument to be made that harsher penalties will reduce crime.
scav
@Anne Laurie: That’s certainly what I understood. The unconscious girls are fair play card is being updated to match the rest of the deck. Whether the entire deck should be mandatory sentencing or not is a different question. Leaving unconscious people vulnerable because one objects to the principle of mandatory sentencing seems calculated provocation.
Peale
@dmsilev: Christ. How insulting. Seriously. You can’t just drop in like that. It’s not like the presidents of other countries have nothing else better to do in their day jobs.
Baud
Three years for rape is less severe than 10 years for drugs.
Baud
@Peale: I assume the Mexicans would have to agree to any visit.
Anne Laurie
@redshirt: You know, it is possible to get thrown out of this saloon for picking pointless fights with the other patrons. Just a reminder!
dmsilev
@Peale: LA to Mexico City is 3.5 hours flight each way. Doable in theory, but kind of tight since he’s got Big Immigration Speech in the evening and fundraisers in the morning.
You know, Donald, advance planning tends to make these sorts of things go more smoothly. I wonder whether he managed his actual construction projects (not the license-my-name ones) like this.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
Maybe he’s intending for it to fail so he can use its failure as a reason for making his yuge, classy wall a few feet higher.
redshirt
@Roger Moore: This.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: I had no problems with your initial question, it was your subsequent responses that made me question the sincerity of your initial query.
redshirt
@Anne Laurie: Sure.
Adam L Silverman
@Bobby Thomson: @dmsilev: Its not going to happen. The logistics can’t be done in under 48 hours. His Secret Service detail needs to have the advance team in place at least 24 hours in advance. And because they’re US Federal law enforcement, this has to be coordinated through US Embassy Mexico City. The Chief of Mission isn’t going to jump through his or her grommet to get the local, Mexican authorization for US law enforcement to operate as an armed personal security detail in Mexico. Then there’s the issue that Trump has made it clear he goes everywhere armed these days – relying on his NY conceal carry permit. Unfortunately for Trump if he’s doing this he’s carrying illegally in most parts of the US as NY’s concealed carry permit isn’t recognized in most parts of the US. It is certainly not recognized in Mexico and Americans are not permitted to bring firearms with them into Mexico. Here’s the reciprocity map for NY conceal carry permits:
usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
ETA: The logistics that are required could be done, so its possible, I just don’t think its probable. However, we won’t know for sure until tomorrow.
Major Major Major Major
@scav: yes, let’s just assume that somebody with a long commenting history has metamorphosed into a troll rather than that he’s sincerely asking a question.
Iowa Old Lady
@dedc79: They don’t seem to know ANYTHING.
Chris T.
@Roger Moore:
Exactly that. Even setting a mandatory min and max is fine in principle, it’s just a question of what those extreme values are set to with respect to what someone is convicted of, combined with how often those convictions themselves are fair.
We keep people in the loop here, rather than having convictions and sentences all done by computer, precisely because we can’t figure out “fairness”.
dmsilev
@Baud: Well, strictly speaking he could just show up. A quick Google search says that US residents don’t need any sort of visa to visit Mexico unless they plan on staying for longer than 180 days.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Adam L Silverman: Skype, Skype, Baby!
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
Marco Robotio wins Florida primary. Sad!
Baud
@dmsilev: He could, but even he would have to recognize how ridiculous and weak that would make him look.
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: does the secret service have any obligation/authority to protect you from yourself?
(This is an actual question. I’ll start using this parenthetical more often I guess.)
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
Yes.
Anne Laurie
@schrodinger’s cat:
Nah, I believe Trump actually likes crap fast food — it’s what he eats all the time, so it’s familiar, and he’s been careful not to expand his gustatory horizons.
Also, he’s told many reporters that fast-food franchises are “clean”; since he’s a renowned germaphobe, the thought of microwaved portions and disposible utensils is part of the appeal for him.
He may even be dimly aware of the old adage “Never be rude to people who have the ability to spit in your food while they’re preparing it”… and the high percentage of undocumented Hispanic workers at most non-chain dining establishments!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Roger Moore: I think they raise them in West by God Virginia, also too.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@trollhattan:
Yes, there are. Valued, inter alia, because they produce less methane than standard sizes.
scav
@Major Major Major Major: Your behavior today mimicked exactly what I’d remarked earlier with the militarized borders. People can engage in unnecessarily provocative argumentative behaviors suddenly for all sorts of reasons without being long-term trolls. Sometimes people just want fights.
hovercraft
@Peale:
I believe his major speech is at 6.00 pm mountain time, so if he heads out early enough he can make it back in time. Since he’s already on the West Coast I’m assuming he’s spending the night in California.
Roger Moore
@Chris T.:
There’s also a question about how wide the range should be. If the range is too wide, there’s a risk of some convicts getting unfairly light (or harsh) sentences based on their identity rather than their actions, but if the range is too narrow, there’s no room for judges to exert judgment.
Bobby Thomson
@dmsilev:
You do remember that people argued with a straight face that Trump couldn’t possibly be bigoted against Muslim or black people because he had appeared in a group photo with Muhammad Ali at an event where they both received an award?
hovercraft
@lamh36:
Uncle Joe better get ready for a visit, to smooth over ruffled feathers.
Major Major Major Major
@scav: then I’m afraid you’ve misread me. Most likely I just picked the wrong words. Although I don’t see how I can get clearer than “I think ______, what are arguments to the contrary”
Please either tell me how to ask a question about sentencing leniency for rapists that won’t upset somebody, or stop assuming bad motives for me.
Iowa Old Lady
@hovercraft: Maybe he plans to ask what Mexico was thinking when they sent those rapists.
gene108
@Adam L Silverman:
Trump employed a bunch of illegal immigrants on a job site, in the early 1980’s. It was reported back then and picked up a bit during election season.
No one really cares.
The modeling thing is more recent and probably on going, but it seems to be such a common industry practice that I doubt you single out Trump Modeling, without bringing the whole house of cards down around the rest of the modeling business.
And the where would the publishing companies that also own news outlets go, when they need tall, skinny, teenage girls to pose in fancy cloths?
There’s probably some high level exec, who does not want to see one part of the publishing empire screwed over by the newsroom.
Frankensteinbeck
@Anne Laurie:
My interest is in what response he’ll get from Mexico. Trump’s most defining trait is that he carries grudges. He is spiteful, mean, petty, and racist. He is loved in Mexico with the same enthusiasm as bubo pus, and by the government even less than by the citizens. If the Mexican government gives him an explicit and openly insulting ‘I have better things to do than talk to morons’ type answer – and that is not only plausible, but likely – he will throw the immigration speech his handlers prepared out the window and go into full-on incoherent, spittle-flecked hate mode.
Anne Laurie
@trollhattan:
But of course there are!
Quick search seems to show U.S. breeders concentrated in the Northeast and Cascadia, for obvious reasons. I seem to remember you’re in one of those two zones?
lamh36
redshirt
@Frankensteinbeck: This being the case I hope Nieto co-ordinates with Obama first. Could be a most excellent troll. Historical even.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: That wasn’t exactly my point. I have no problem with appropriately harsh sentencing provided its applied without preference based on demographic. And the judge has the appropriate discretion to adjust up or down based on the specifics of the case and of the accused. So that the punishment fits the crime.
scav
@Major Major Major Major: Well, let’s leave it as it didn’t just seem to be me misreading you suddenly and your eagerness to pursue this with multiple people seems to rhyme. Good luck with whatever it is.
Iowa Old Lady
@redshirt: That article says Nieto invited him. I wonder if that’s true.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Yes. But everything will have to be done through Embassy Mexico City. They’re not going to jump through their grommets to get everything done that would need to be done in time. Including the armed security escort portion and the advanced team part of that.
trollhattan
@Anne Laurie:
California. How are they as house pets/entres?
JR in WV
@dedc79:
Perhaps Trump’s TRUMP plane would land in Mexico City, and be met by a military escort, who would then refuse to allow Trump to step onto Mexican soil when he got to the bottom of the steps.
It is to dream, perhaps to pass before our eyes…
frosty
@Adam L Silverman: Man, I learn stuff every time you leave a comment. Thanks!
Baud
DWS won her primary.
Major Major Major Major
@scav: I was looking for a fight which is exactly why, after AL gave a sincere answer that made sense to me, I politely thanked her and dropped it. ‘K.
Moving on.
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Yes of course, sentences should match the crime. But mandatory sentences are far more often used as a racial weapon to imprison minorities.
Iowa Old Lady
So 27% may be an underestimate.
Bobby Thomson
@Adam L Silverman: Rigged!
Peale
@Frankensteinbeck: I don’t see any reason why Nieto needs to throw Trump a little photo op lifeline. Trump has basically called his country a den of thieves, its nationals criminal, threatened to tear up its manufacturing economy and replace it with a new trade deal that would be to the U.S. Sole advantage, plus take 11 million people who are working in the U.S., make them unemployed and drop them on his doorstep faster than their economy can do anything with them. Many of those people will have been away from Mexico for so long that they might be considered refugees. He’s got his own voters to deal with and I doubt “making nice with Trump” is going to be that pivotal moment he’s seeking.
Baud
Patrick Murphy beat Grayson.
schrodinger's cat
@Iowa Old Lady: Is this from the Onion?
redshirt
@Baud: Yay! I’ve been rooting for her ever since the Bernouts turned their glazed glare upon her.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: MMMM, MMMM, MMMM! Personal roasted cattle. Do I get soup, salad, and a choice of two sides?
Bobby Thomson
@Iowa Old Lady: PPP can bring the snark when they want to.
Peale
@Iowa Old Lady: they really do confuse Muslims with Kaiju, don’t they.
Major Major Major Major
@Iowa Old Lady: we may have to change the crazification factor to 31%; things do feel a little crazier after all. Let’s all keep an eye out for that number.
@Peale: I don’t think a wall would even help with THAT problem.
rikyrah
twitter.com/usopen/status/770786071990771712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
amk
@Baud: @Baud:
bad, bad, baud.
Iowa Old Lady
@schrodinger’s cat: No! I know it’s hard to tell and a wall along the Atlantic seems preposterous to you and me. But here’s a link.
Baud
@amk: I’m just the messenger.
Hal
DWS wins, according to Rachel Maddow. Also mentioning Sanders pulling back on efforts to get her opponent elected. What’s all that about? Maddow mentioned Tim Canova had a decent political operation.
hovercraft
@Peale:
The alert says “may” for a reason. Can you imagine the call that was placed to Nieto. Who? Tell that asshole to go f**k himself, actually let him come so I can tell him to his face.
amk
@Iowa Old Lady: they sure want their apartheid amurkkka.
Adam L Silverman
@frosty: Thanks. I should caveat this. It is possible it could happen. I don’t think its probable. But we’ll see what happens tomorrow.
As for the conceal carry stuff, my guess is that if he’s not just sucking up to the 2nd Amendment Absolutists and claiming to carry everywhere he goes, and actually is, he’s breaking laws in a lot of states.
Peale
@JR in WV: I’d go with “meet him with a limo to rush to meet the president. Get stuck in traffic for a few hours. Assign him the driver who has eaten nothing but refried beans and cabbage the day before.”
p.a.
@Iowa Old Lady: @Major Major Major Major:
27% crazy, 4% building contractors.
hovercraft
@Baud:
Drug dealers are black and brown, so the penalties are necessarily tougher.
Anne Laurie
@Frankensteinbeck:
Frankly, that’s kinda what I’m hoping for.
Hell, it may be what Trump’s handlers are hoping for! Bannon knows the Breitbrat fans would orgasm at a good public anti-Messican Trump meltdown, and it’s not like Trump’s gonna make any new friends with the not-xenophobic voters regardless. Screw the election, pad the grift.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Not surprising at all given how that district is created.
Baud
@hovercraft: I agree, Governor LePage.
catclub
@Adam L Silverman: The cow at The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
Arthur Dent: ” I think I’ll just have a small salad.”
Cow: “I know some lettuces that have strong feelings against that.”
or words to that effect.
dedc79
@Anne Laurie:
Yeah, that’s been my ordinary framework for assessing all things Trump. BUT, he is also a control freak, and he will have absolutely no control over his reception in Mexico (which I would think/hope would be quite hostile)
El Caganer
I’m sure Trump will meet the president of Mexico. Just like he met with that high-ranking officer in the Chicago PD.
Amir Khalid
@Hal:
It was never about Canova being a better/more progressive candidate than DWS. Bernie was just acting out because he was pissed at the DNC for supporting Hillary over him .
redshirt
@Anne Laurie: If he can pull in the majority of the 27% for his new network, it could be a success. My question is, what network would host it or what cable provider would offer it?
Major Major Major Major
@catclub: I love that scene. “I’ll just nip off and shoot myself. Oh don’t worry, sir–I’ll be very humane.”
NotMax
@Hal
There’s nothing to it; outcome is what was expected.
Sanders and Canova have a long-term history and friendship, so the endorsement was more a courtesy than anything else.
p.a.
@hovercraft: @Baud:
They use their Svengali-like mind powers to force white kids to create demand. Like they forced the banksters to give them mortgages in the early ‘aughts.
Demonic.
Adam L Silverman
@Peale: That would be a wall on the Pacific coast. Atlantic coast is to prevent Atlantean invasion:
youtube.com/watch?v=LNqE7wrRLjk
dmsilev
@Bobby Thomson: My current favorite is the poll they released recently showing Jill Stein at 4% …and Harambe the gorilla at 5%.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: She is one amazing and gifted athlete.
magurakurin
@Baud: I saw that. That then marks the final end of Bernie’s Revolution. If he couldn’t use his awesome powers to unseat DWS, who can he unseat? And for the record, her being re-elected is an affair between her and the voters of her district. She doesn’t seem like the finest of our finest, but if the voters in her district want her, so be it.
hovercraft
It’s for real, apparently.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: No mere wall would do any good if we piss off the Deep Ones.
hovercraft
@Iowa Old Lady:
Ha !
Anne Laurie
@trollhattan: Mini-cattle are supposed to make great ‘entrees’ (higher proportion of meat to ‘waste’, and the meat better marbled even on grass-only diets). Although they’re so pricey to buy most not-subsistence-farmers are probably raising them for ‘pets’, or to breed & sell, or for milk.
And, of course, for tax breaks! — I’m sure California has tons of special property-tax breaks for ‘farmers’, and some people do indeed buy a mini cow or three just to qualify for those breaks. Like all the small-business doctors & lawyers, back in the 90s, who incorporated so they could write off their SUVs as ‘business equipment – small trucks’.
But on the positive side, they’re apparently popular with 4H programs, too… so if your neighbor has kids, they just might want an exhibition animal that only outweighs them by 500 pounds instead of a ton.
dmsilev
@hovercraft: So, what I want to know is what is getting shoved aside at the last minute to make this hypothetical trip possible? A Presidential nominee, even one so …different as Trump, has to run on a very tight and crowded schedule. He’s doing a fundraiser tomorrow morning and Big Speech tomorrow evening, but what was slated for the late morning and early afternoon? Was he planning on spending a couple of hours at this really awesome miniature golf course halfway between LA and Phoenix or something?
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN is now.
Iowa Old Lady
@dmsilev: He planned to take a nap, because you know why? He has no stamina. :-)
amk
proof that kenyan is indeed the isis ‘founder’.
Frankensteinbeck
@hovercraft:
I looked up more. As unpopular as Trump is, and as vehement as some of his fellows have gotten, Nieto has remained strictly polite. His stated position is that it is his job to partner with the next president of the United States, and he will try to make good relations with both Trump and Clinton. It’s a shame. Another good hate rant would do wonders for Trump’s campaign.
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman: Even a 600lb mini-cow will break down to some 250-300lbs of meat (or so I’m told). Paleo or no, that’s a lot for one meal — you’ll hardly need the baked potato!
Amir Khalid
@Anne Laurie:
Per that Wikipedia article, they also fart a lot less than regular-sized cattle, hence less greenhouse-gas emission.
dmsilev
@Major Major Major Major: My understanding of the Laundry-verse is that the Deep Ones were reasonably tolerant of humanity. CASE NIGHTMARE $COLOR are all sorts of _other_ eldritch horrors.
NotMax
@hovercraft
Veni, vidi, screwy.
Tweets to come:
“I come bearing the best taco bowls.”
“Mexican president spoke in Spanish. Sad.”
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: Here you go:
dailymotion.com/video/x3hjmpe
dailymotion.com/video/x3hjjt8_justice-league-unlimited-season-2-episode-16-the-terror-beyond-part-2_…
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: you are correct, I was mistaken. They sent that nice lady to help, after all.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Best part was, they released it right after Jill Stein had tweeted a heart-rending Occupy Harambe or something similar on the three-month commemoration of his death.
(Which I am not making light of, at all. I am making light of Dr. Fucking Jill Fucking Stein. Not Harambe, whose death made me cry.)
Anne Laurie
@dedc79: Trump announcing he’ll go to Mexico and Trump actually going to Mexico are two very, very different things. I’m sure there were no plans by anyone in his entourage (most emphatically including the Secret Service) to make the trip. The only question is whether Flap-Face Donald knew he was making empty promises, or if he might actually still be deluded into thinking his statements have any weight outside of publicity purposes.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: So, first it’s “what’s wrong with a secure border anyway” and now it’s “what’s right about a mandatory minimum sentence for the crime of rape”?
My dear, are you just being a contrarian for the fun of it, or are these serious questions?
Anne Laurie
@redshirt:
I suspect there’s plenty of high-numbers-on-the-remote cable providers would happily agree to be bought out by a big NYC macher like Trump.
Hell, given the current implosion at Fox News, and the fact that Rupert’s kids are notoriously uninterested in supporting it, maybe Ailes is hoping he can buy the whole package at fire-sale prices!
Miss Bianca
@SiubhanDuinne: Reason number eleventy-something that I love our POTUS.
PaulWartenberg2016
Keeping up with the Florida primary:
“No Show” Rubio wins the GOP primary hands down, which is a damn shame considering HE’S NOT DOING HIS JOB, REPUBLICANS, STOP REWARDING BAD BEHAVIOR.
Libertarian Stanton defeats Invictus, which means none of our Senatorial candidates have admitted to drinking goat’s blood.
Murphy beats Grayson to be the Democratic challenger to Rubio. This is important, Democrats. Some of you may not ‘trust’ Murphy because of his pro-business leanings… BUT DAMMIT RUBIO MUST NOT WIN THIS NOVEMBER. /headdesk
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: I don’t know how else to ask a sincere question. Which direction do I prostrate myself next time?
PaulWartenberg2016
@hovercraft:
I hope this is an attempt by Mexico to kidnap Trump and force him to dig a tunnel under the US / Mexico border just for sh-ts and giggles.
redshirt
@Anne Laurie: Wow, yeah, when you put it that way he might try to buy Fox News from Murdoch with Aisles as his main ally.
Anne Laurie
@NotMax:
Except that friendship seems to have come under stress over the last few months — there’s been stories that Canova feels like Sanders did him no favors by cranking up DNC support for his opponent, and then losing interest once Bernie’s own campaign wound down.
Could be just rumors, of course.
Amir Khalid
@SiubhanDuinne:
Seriously: Jill Stein is an amazingly silly candidate. Her Green party recently held a convention that, per the media reports, was like kindergarten with 30-year-old children. She panders to crackpots. Her grasp of policy issues is laughably feeble. She has no sense of how to operate as President. She is extremely unlikely to be effective in office. Why do the self-styled “progressives” like her so much?
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: also, if you read the conversations, you would see that the answers are:
Nothing, and the ‘borders’ are already ‘secure’ insofar as we have OK control over who comes and goes and stays which is what I meant, and
Opinions can differ on mandatory minimums but this change would patch a hole in existing statutes
hovercraft
@Frankensteinbeck:
Apparently though there is some concern on Nieto’s part about his voters reaction to just a Trump visit, it’s one thing to announce visits by both candidates, but just him could be dicey. I guess we have to wait and see.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Amir Khalid: Of course, most of the methane from cows comes from burps… ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Ella in New Mexico
Love seeing the piling-on “open-mindedness” of BJ regulars bringing some one quickly to heel for questioning the wisdom of mandatory sentences–
in a thread about how Obama just commuted a total of 673 mandatory sentences.
Or is it hypocrisy? Not sure.
amk
@Ella in New Mexico: Or context? Like how rich white spoilt brats literally get away with rape? And that particular odious loophole was fixed? With bipartisan support?
hovercraft
@Miss Bianca:
Plus winding down on the use of private prisons and detention centers. AWESOME !!
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
As someone said most major crimes have mandatory minimums. So this really is a case of how is raping someone who is unconscious different than raping someone who is not and if there is no difference then why do we need a different law? If there is a difference then we need two laws but should there be a difference in the minimum for either? As an example you may know that there are several different crimes for killing someone, depending on the circumstances, like intent. In the case of rape an unconscious woman has no possibility of protecting herself and can not make a decision either way. So maybe there is a case for a more severe minimum. The intent is different, even if the crime isn’t and the end result is the same.
The drug war sentencing issue was in part that powdered cocaine, usually a white crime. had a much less severe minimum than did rock cocaine, which was primarily a black crime. It was in every way a racist decision.
Minimums do take away some judicial leeway but they also do provide that someone convicted of a crime has to pay some penalty. Of course that is only one step in making justice a whole lot fairer for everyone, which I don’t think it is now.
Adam L Silverman
@Anne Laurie: Baked sweet potato. Better than a regular baked potato. Also, steamed vegetables please. Thanks!
hovercraft
@PaulWartenberg2016:
FSM please make it so.
The Thin Black Duke
@amk: Furthermore, how many of those 673 prisoners were black or other people of color? Not too many rich white kids, I bet. I didn’t think I was being a hypocrite, just a realist.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Works for me!
hovercraft
@efgoldman:
Use dolphins, people will think they’re friendly, and not try to escape until it’s too late. We have to be ruthless.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major:
So, your problem with the idea then, is…what, precisely?
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus: hey, you said it without calling me a shitstain on humanity. Thank you.
What about the argument that mandatory minimums make prosecutors (less accountable in the first place) effectively make the sentencing decision by being more careful only to pick defendants that juries will think ‘deserve’ the minimum sentence (black people)?
I was also unaware that this was essentially patching an existing minimum and not making a new one. The NPR article I read didn’t mention that fairly crucial context.
Emma
@Major Major Major Major: I am truly getting confused here. You question the validity of mandatory sentences (so do I) and there were some answers, given with, as usual in BJ, varying levels of politeness. The consensus seems to be that since the mandatory sentences are on the books, they are being used to correct a loophole in sexual assault laws. Setting aside the social aspect, what answers were you looking for?
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: the article I read didn’t say it was a patch. The headline even said it was a “new” minimum. NPR.
catclub
Speaking of open threads and high roads, here is an interesting idea: Better funding to reduce child abuse.
Very significant long term payoffs.
The Thin Black Duke
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, they’ve never had no problem putting black people in jail before.
Major Major Major Major
@Emma: the ones I got, eventually, but it’s not unreasonable for me to get defensive with people assuming bad things about me. I’m here every day.
Major Major Major Major
@The Thin Black Duke: the argument goes that it makes white people less likely to be prosecute in the first place.
Miss Bianca
@Ella in New Mexico: Is it just me, or is the crime of rape – a historically under-prosecuted crime that can destroy the life of the victim – actually slightly MORE heinous than selling someone a bag of weed? And therefore, maybe, slightly more worthy of a mandatory minimum sentence? I don’t know, maybe I’m just a bad liberal, but I think that kid in California *should* have been sentenced to prison – preferably years in prison – for what he did. I don’t think judges should have the luxury, in those cases, of saying, “oh, well, boys will be boys”. Color me a crazy, reactionary fool for thinking that maybe it’s time rape got taken seriously as a crime.
The Thin Black Duke
@Major Major Major Major: If the white kids who rape got rich parents, that goes without saying, doesn’t it?
Miss Bianca
@Baud: And there was great rejoicing…
Emma
@Major Major Major Major: That I agree with. But remember we’re a pack of snarling jackals and some of us may just want a fight to blow off steam.
Major Major Major Major
@The Thin Black Duke: the argument would further go that Turner wouldn’t have even been tried since the prosecutor wouldn’t have thought he could make the higher mandatory sentence stick.
schrodinger's cat
@Miss Bianca: How are the office kittehs?
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
As I said at the end, this is only one step in making justice fair, which it currently isn’t. Some states have the death penalty and execute people regularly, Texas for example. Several states still have the penalty but never or rarely execute and many don’t have the penalty at all. For profit prisons are a horrible way to operate as the Feds have noticed. This could be a way too long FP post from someone if they so desired, there are a ton of issues with the criminal justice system. Maybe some of them really can’t be fixed, any more than all the problems of a democracy can be fixed, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. But it’s all our job to demand fairness in our laws and our system of enforcing them and that isn’t happening until we face the racism problem we have in this country.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: Ah. Context is everything, ain’t it?
Miss Bianca
@schrodinger’s cat: Give me your email addy and I can send some pics!
ETA: Oh, wait – I can reach you thru’ your website, can’t I?
The Thin Black Duke
@Major Major Major Major: Bottom line, in the real world that we live in, Turner fucking got away with it, so these hypothetical arguments don’t mean nothing.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: the context easily gleaned from reading the thread before dropping to the bottom to comment? Indeed.
Edit: sorry, that was bitchy, but come on
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Miss Bianca: There were many states that had the death penalty for rape – until Corker v. Georgia in 1977.
Sentencing too often is complicated by our too easily corruptible prosecution system (grandstanding prosecutors, elected judges, etc.). Are mandatory minimums part of the way to make things fairer and more just? Maybe, but as in much of the legal system, the devil’s in the details.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodinger's cat
@Miss Bianca: Yes you can! Did you get those Khushwant Singh books, yet?
Major Major Major Major
@The Thin Black Duke: he was tried and convicted, he didn’t get away with it. He got a light sentence. With a minimum he might have gotten no sentence and you never would have heard of him.
Bobby Thomson
@redshirt: if Trump managed to send Fox into chapter 11 that would be quite the capping achievement to leaving Republican institutions in smoldering embers.
redshirt
@efgoldman: I really dig your analysis and hope it comes to pass. Kickass!
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Hence my point, only one step in an involved process.
How about defense lawyers? Not speaking to competence but availability. Wealthy people can afford them, lots of us can not. Are public defenders worse lawyers? Probably not but they can be overworked and pressed for time, someone charging by the hour most likely has a less pressured schedule and can devote more attention to a particular case. Just one more issue.
Origuy
Is this what you say just before you meet the president of a country?
ETA. I didn’t notice the date of that tweet. It just got retweeted.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
Don’t see how it’s good, there wouldn’t be any fewer idiots. Faux not news would have to compete or maybe actually become a news outlet. OK I crack myself up. Still don’t see how it’s better or worse, just more of the same crap.
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus: you can’t just say “it’s complicated” when we’re talking about a specific piece of the puzzle though. I mean, you can, but it’s not really an opinion on this particular law.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: The premise of your secure borders question was that anyone can just waltz in without papers and stay as long as they like without consequence. That’s the entire premise of the Trump campaign. I don’t think you are clueless but that question certainly was.
IRL people awaiting deportation die in privately run detention centers. Children fight deportation orders against federal lawyers. This despite the fact, that most visa violations are not a criminal offense.
Groucho48
@Adam L Silverman:
I thought the plan was to extend the Mexican wall along the gulf states and up the Atlantic coast far enough north so it would block the Zika mosquitoes from sneaking into the U.S. And, brilliantly, the mosquitoes would pay for it. Genius!
Adam L Silverman
@Groucho48: Gonna need a lot of netting.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: I obviously didn’t know that ‘secure borders’ was code for East Berlin. I guess all those times Obama talked about the ‘border’ being ‘secure’, in reference to how we have a pretty good handle on who is and isn’t here, he was speaking a different dialect.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: More than one person seems to have misconstrued your innocent intent.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Even though I didn’t say it’s complicated, it is. I said it is involved and that’s not the same as what I think you’ve inferred with the use of complicated. One of the issues is that we don’t treat a lot of issues as part of the whole but as a specific piece of the puzzle, when because it is involved and has a lot of moving and fixed pieces you really shouldn’t treat any specific piece without considering the whole. Our system does exactly what you are describing though, take the issue under discussion, rape. It is a horrible crime, basically half the population are potential victims, while the other half are potential perpetrators. Yet no one took the time to figure out that being unconscious makes some kind of difference under the law until some jackass gets off way too easy. Nothing is simple or easy or uncomplicated about the law, enforcement and justice. It just isn’t. It is the basis of our society, of course it’s complicated and messy and evolving and prone to bullshit in writing laws, enforcing them and justice for both the criminal and the population at large.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: which is a statement about their reading and my writing, not a statement about my intent.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Major Major Major Major:
Not going to get on the big computer to dig out the links, so take this with whatever volume of salt you desire, but I believe the legislative action was taken to close a loophole whereby rape of an unconscious or “unresisting” person received (or potentially received) lighter penalties than “regular” rape.
So I don’t think this was some draconian overreaction to one or several “front-page” cases. It was a plugging of the (possibly antiquated) loophole. Rape is rape, and one shouldn’t get a gentleman’s discount for waiting until the victim is incapacitated.
geg6
@Ella in New Mexico:
Yeah, because rape is equivalent to carrying a bag of weed. Convicted murderers should get probation, too. Because they are white and privileged and remind the judge of himself at that age. It might ruin the murderer’s college experience, doncha know. And there are so many rapists who are doing time and it’s NOT FAIR that so many people get jailed unfairly for raping people that the entire rapist community has been devastated by these unjust convictions of rapists.
Jesus fuck.
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus: first of all, I didn’t know that this was a patch and not a new mandatory minimum when I wrote most of what I did (before AL’s clarification), and that very much changes the issue. Into a non-issue.
I agree absolutely that addressing complicated things on a system level is the right way to approach them. For a lot of people that fact is used to handwave any given individual piece. You are evidently not such a person.
I still think mandatory minimums should be given a great deal of scrutiny, especially as regards crimes with a big discrepancy in race and wealth like drugs or, yes, rape. They have no deterrent value, and the criminal justice system IMO isn’t about making you feel good.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Steeplejack (tablet):
ETA: I believe the mandatory minimum for “unconscious” rape is now the same as for “regular” rape. At least that’s my memory of the long article I read.
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack (tablet): yeah the article I originally read reported it as a new mandatory minimum not a patch.
Omnes Omnibus
Jesus, people. Not everyone who reads and comments on this blog is au courant on the details of every issue. Major^4 comments here all the time and generally seems to be a decent human being. Can we not assume that long time decent commenters are acting in good faith, even if confused? It’s like the people who accuse someone of lying when they are simply wrong; there is a difference. And yes, I’ll work on it too.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
I hadn’t and haven’t read the info on the “new” minimum. I also didn’t take offense or whatever to your original post. It’s just that I feel strongly that our entire justice system is a patchwork on top of patchwork on top of …….. Add in the police and how they too often do a crap job that is at least racist on it’s face, etc, etc, etc. Your comment was a place to start a good discussion though. It also shows how difficult it is to get a consensus on what we should be doing, or changing or in how we think about this subject.
Take mandatory minimums. I think that some crimes should have them, if only because as a society we need to have some knowledge that certain crimes have minimum penalties. Yes I agree that in a lot of cases minimums and jail time and whatever don’t stop crime. My understanding is that most murders are crimes of people who know each other. The penalty didn’t and won’t stop the crime. But from a societies viewpoint we still don’t want that person to get off with nothing, or a slap on the wrist, such as the guy who was the impetus for this entire line of discussion. The carrot does not always work, if it did there would be no reason for the entire system. The point is that we are all capable of being major assholes. What stops you from being one? Or me or anyone else? For some the answer is nothing stops them and for others you have to look at humanity in total. We need the stick as well as the carrot. Mandatory minimums are how big that stick is, at least. For some the size of the stick is = to the carrot. Is it a perfect system? Hell no. Is it better than total judicial decision? I think so, because it in theory brings about more equality under the law. But like everything else it has to be done right from the get go. Those differences in the cocaine laws were an example of done completely wrong from the get go.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: Very short because this thread really isn’t the best in which to debate our whole judicial system. I would favor sentencing guidelines that said 3-6 years for x crime, but allowed a judge to deviate from the guideline for good cause. That deviation would be subject to appeal.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sounds like a reasonable concept.
And you are right debating the entire judicial system is more than this forum really is designed for, at least on a one post basis. But I think that it needs to be out there and not just on a forum for professionals in the field. We all have skin in the game, we all should have input other than just voting for a representative.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: Tonight, I just think that Major^4 got steamrolled when he shouldn’t have been.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Agreed. Although I think that his first comment was a bit, I don’t know what. It sounded a little bit off? And several handled it poorly, you are right that local knowledge of the participants is important. Some, like srv are just seemingly trying to be assholes. M4 isn’t one of those by any stretch. I know for example that you don’t filter anyone, while I do. And there are people that I disagree with often that I haven’t, because they at least try to make a thought out point. It’s the people who are a waste of time because they are complete trolls or because they are just here to be asses and piss people off. In the Venn diagram those two circles often fully intersect.
ruemara
@redshirt: The nature of the crime of rape is more serious than selling a bag of weed and yet being a white frat boy/athlete has been a get out of any consequences free card. It deserves a mandatory minimum of jail, since fucking men can’t seem to understand that rape isn’t a “just boys being boys, an error in judgment“ thing.
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: Do you have some proof that he wouldn’t have been convicted at all? Because if you don’t, you’re indulging in hypotheticals to prevent a clear sentencing structure for a from of rape that it’s way too easy already for people to get away with. You may want to step back from feeling right and consider what you’re trying to be right about.