Why didn’t I hear about this earlier?
The latest tarmac nightmare unfolded last week on Continental Express Flight 2816 — one of those sardine-tight regional planes. After a thunderstorm diversion, 47 passengers had to spend the night on board, sealed off from the airport that waited like a mirage just beyond the windows in Rochester, Minn. “You’re numb throughout the experience, and you almost don’t know what’s happening to you,” said one passenger who staggered into the airport after being trapped for more than six hours.
Obviously, the invisible hand of the free market will prevent this from happening in the future, but I agree with the Times that:
The best redress for the nonfliers of 2816 is to demand approval of the Airline Passengers Bill of Rights that has been stalled in Congress in the face of industry opposition.
The merciful measure from Senators Barbara Boxer and Olympia Snowe would force airlines to offer passengers the option of getting off after three hours on the tarmac, and to supply food, water and adequate restrooms during long delays. The proposal, recently approved in committee, is stronger than an industry-friendly House measure. It provides considerably more comfort to travelers than the bags of free pretzels passengers found waitingwhen they were freed from Flight 2816.
That’s where we are, folks. Even broke-ass companies like the airlines can impose their will on our political process. I’m sure if they really wanted to, Continental and Delta could bus in teabaggers to scream about how the Airline Passengers Bill of Rights would lead to death panels and mass euthanasia. And Candy Crowley and Marc Ambinder would say the teabaggers had a point.
Update. Via the comments, here’s a blog that deals exclusively with air passenger issues.
Tom
This, I’m afraid, is literally true. That’s where we are today August 15 2009 in the United States of America.
JK
Doug,
You’re really on fire tonight with some outstanding posts.
“And Candy Crowley and Marc Ambinder would say the teabaggers had a point.” – I’d add Mark Halperin to that pair.
General Winfield Stuck
The wingnuts are right and the “Free Market” is our overlords and it’s always been that way and always will be. It isn’t presnit Obama, or Bush or Clinton. It’s Presnit Profit for Life.
And we are but peasant consumers keeping the dollar God’s happy and fat.
General Winfield Stuck
Lately in general. Now don’t fuck it up. K
jcricket
I do love the Libertarian concept that because companies serve customers and there is competition, they will all fall over each other to give the best customer service, lest customers go elsewhere. Because that’s exactly how it’s happened, right?
Remind me again why anyone takes Libertarians seriously? Do we spend a lot of time debating the merits and ins-and-outs of communists? But with Libertarianism we spend all this time when it’s clearly bankrupt from the very core – it bears no resemblance to reality, and even in thought experiments/philosophizing can be shown to be hollow and worthless.
ARGH!
JGabriel
I may be wrong, but I suspect most of them would prefer money — lots and lots of it.
Approval of the Airline Passengers Bill of Rights would be good redress too, but not the best.
.
aimai
This whole thing about “next to take off” seems crazy, to me. You’d think it would be possible to use some system…lets call it “scheduling”…to allow planes to load and unload and take off with reasonable certainity and timing. People are not packages but I wouldn’t be surprised if packages aren’t treated better.
aimai
Tom
Gov’t asking why airline passengers were stranded – Yahoo! News
We certainly wouldn’t want to have unintended consequences such as the likelihood of cancellations and inconvenience, would we. Hmmmm?
FWIW, I read on a pilot listserve if you ever find yourself in a situation like that, you should call an emergency and request an ambulance. But the guy said, “It shouldn’t have to come to that.” Indeed so.
(Man. I miss preview.)
Indylib
OT Did anyone watch Obama’s townhall in Grand Junction, Colo.?
HuffPo has his opening remarks, transcript and video, but nothing on the Q&A.
Warren Terra
@ Jcricket, #5
No, jcricket, the libertarian idea works just fine as long as you combine it with one other, very important concept, the No True Scotsman method of argument.
Obviously, the problem with corporations being obvious exploitative scum with their eyes on the short term, near-total blindness to any costs distributed so that the company doesn’t bear them itself or any costs they can illegitimately weasel out of, and a troubling tendency to cheat not only their own employees but also their own stockholders for the benefit of senior executives and certain privileged stockholders – obviously this long litany of woe doesn’t result from any problem with the Libertarian idea of loosing the corporations to wreak havoc; instead it’s all gone wrong because the excessive meddling by the state distorts the corporations towards evil. Well, the excuse is that or something similar; I haven’t recently heard the official version of why the corporations we have all seem to behave like unaccountable bastards won’t be a problem in a Libertarian Utopia.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@jcricket:
And that may work…in the state of nature. Small towns, little fiefdoms–all of these libertarian ideas work well there. But once the business you’re “negotiating” with has millions of customers other than you, there’s no longer any leverage. One would think this would be immediately obvious (that large multinational corporations are not analogous to “businesses” in the libertarian political mythology).
Ken Lovell
I hope they didn’t ration the pretzels.
Warren Terra
@ Indylib, #9
I haven’t watched it, but (unsurprisingly), you can stream it from C-SPAN. If you’d prefer text, the transcript at the White House site includes the questions and answers, and has time stamps to run about the same as the C-SPAN video (the video is a couple minutes longer)
MBSS
@ ken lovell
GWB does.
Warren Terra
By the way, it seems to me that this thread could really use a link to the blog of what appears to be the main organization pushing for the Airline Passengers’ Bill Of Rights
Evie
Exactly. And Marc Ambinder is the most annoying of all. I just didn’t expect it of him.
What’s amazing is that there are no flood of stories that can stir people to rise up against the airlines. A guy was screaming last week about being kept against his will at a Specter town hall. But thousands taken hostage every year on the tarmac? Move along.
mogden
I’m a libertarian. I do think there’s something strange about the idea that an airline company can keep you trapped inside a large metal box against your will for many hours.
Indylib
@Warren Terra:
Thanks, should have thought of that.
jenniebee
Thank heavens there are some regulations on the airlines. Imagine how awful it would have been in a totally deregulated libertarian paradise. You think it was bad on that plane as it was, imagine the stench if it was all those passengers… and a pony!
JGabriel
mogden:
Yeah, it’s weird how corporations keep acting ways that seem irrational in the face of libertarian self-interest. It’s almost like Ayn Rand was wrong.
.
jcricket
@Warren Terra: Well, that was sort of my point with bringing up the communists (“true communism has never been tried…”).
Don’t even get me started on the whole “shareholders” nonsense. The shareholders seem to be a tiny group of already rich people who do indeed benefit from the corporate malfeasance, penny-pinching, poor consumer handling, etc.
Sadly, judging by income statistics, the system is working as designed. The rich are getting way, way richer, with almost no consequence (no loss of power, no tax increases, and the poor actually agitating for things that benefit the rich).
BTW – I’m one of those rich people (top 5%) who gets this whole thing is unsustainable. Plus I know how tenuous my position really is (I’ve been unemployed and close to broke before), so get the need for social safety nets, at a bare, bare minimum. My solution – Jack up the taxes of the rich, then eventually work your way down to the pretty rich, almost rich. Make sure we get lots of social benefit from it. And regulate the shit out of companies (enforce those regulations too). We’re in as much danger of over regulation as I am of winning the NBA finals next year.
cbear
I’m waiting to hear a gooper suggest they should have had their whining liberal asses tasered while they have were cornered.
Tom
@Indylib:
I saw a good part of it streaming on HuffPo. It was pretty good. Obama kept taking the tough questions or seeking out the tough questions, but of course handled them well. One guy (student) challenged him to a
dueldebate. Another small business owner Repub. He got a standing O for calling the Death Panel perps “dishonest.” Singling out Senators Who Sponsored Similar Legislation.BTW, our President of the United States of America has an OpEd in the New York Times today. Op-Ed Contributor – Why We Need Health Care Reform – NYTimes.com
Comrade Kevin
@JGabriel: glibertarianism, like conservatism, can not fail. It can only be failed.
cbear
BTW, the mere mention of Candy Crowley and airplane travel is enough to tighten my nutsack. How would you like to be on one of those puddle-jumper flights and see her waddling onto the plane?
The slightest miscalculation on the weight-to-lift off ratio and your ass could be bouncing around in some Iowa cornfield.
uila
Are lawsuits for wrongful imprisonment considered part of the invisible hand of the free market? Or are they the free hand of the invisible market? Either way, bring it. My wife, no stranger to claustrophobia, would have lost her shit on that plane.
arguingwithsignposts
CSPAN is playing Steve Lonegan. WTF? Where are the Netroots Nation speakers? God, I so want to boycott, but it’s “public service,” so my boycott wouldn’t mean anything.
MBSS
pic of me relaxing:
dl.ziza.ru/other/062009/22/pics/038_pics.jpg
cbear
@MBSS: Priceless. The very essence of Cat.
Martin
How many airlines profitably serve Rochester, MN? One? Yeah, the free market is drowning the place in competition, cost savings, and improved customer service.
Besides, what’s wrong with a little indefinite detention and stress positions? If they weren’t guilty, they wouldn’t have been on that flight in the first place.
Corner Stone
@cbear: Whoa, whoa, the fuck whoa!
Excuse the fuck right out of me but did you just call a female person fat?
“And DougJ will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy His brothers. And you will know I am DougJ when I lay my vengeance upon you.”
cbear I hate to say it, but you are an asshole.
Mnemosyne
I see the airplane also had that oh-so-wonderful feature of the modern airline experience, no food onboard at all. It was bad enough when they took our “free” meals away. Now half the time when I get on a plane, they announce they don’t even have meals for sale so if you didn’t buy something in the terminal, well, too damn bad.
The only reason I can think of that no flight crew has had the shit beaten out of them by angry passengers is that we all know it’s a federal offense, but I don’t know how much longer that’s going to hold. After six hours, I’m pretty sure the air marshal wouldn’t do squat if it meant he could get to the terminal, too.
IndieTarheel
Doug, you brought it today – no question.The Crowley/Ambinder line was perfect.
JGabriel
@Corner Stone:
I saw that one coming. Maybe Steve S. and Corner Stone can get together and form an Association of Concern Trolls.
.
cbear
@Corner Stone: You are very tiresome. Just because I defended your right to be an asshole in a previous thread does not mean we are alike.
Of course I am an asshole, at times I work very hard at it. You seem to come to it without effort. Therein lies the difference.
Corner Stone
@cbear:
It’s true. I would never denigrate Ms. Crowley for her physical appearance. Pig!
JGabriel
@cbear: Heh. Just think how much tiresomeness you could have saved us all, if only you’d gone for the fat Ambinder joke instead of the fat Crowley joke.
,
Corner Stone
@JGabriel: Prescient person is prescient.
Corner Stone
@JGabriel: Uh-uh, no way kemosabe. I may throw out all nilly willy style things that DougJ finds offense to – but there is no way on FSM’s green earth I’m stealing Steve S.’s concern troll bit.
Dude lives for that yo. I’d sooner go tween a WOLVERINE and his Palin poster, or maybe General Winfield Stuck and his Swedish-made penis enlarger pump, than fight Steve S. for the concern troll concession.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t. Be sure to tip the waitresses, they need it in this economy.
wasabi gasp
This is how the founding fathers wanted pretzels eaten.
cbear
@JGabriel: Yeah, I knew going in that it was probably a mistake, but I’ll use virtually any excuse to ridicule human pigs like Crowley—fat, ugly, stupid, AND gooperized is no way to go through life.
I feel the same way about Limbaugh or Barbour or Gingrich, etc.
I realize that its not PC to criticize people for being overweight, but, as always, I draw a distinction between them and us. Our guys and gals are pleasantly plump—theirs are gluttonous, maladorous, and just plain nasty.
JK
@JGabriel:
There’s plenty to criticize about Crowley and Ambinder, without getting into physical attributes.
@Corner Stone:
What’s the date for the Balloon Juice Beer Summit between you, General Winfield Stuck, Doug, and John Cole?
JGabriel
@cbear: Yeah, I shouldn’t be making any fat jokes either, given that I could stand to lose about 10-13 kg.
(Notice how I use kilograms there instead of pounds, to make the numbers look smaller? I’m clever like that.)
(Oops, I just gave the trick away. Damn, I’m dumb.)
.
JGabriel
@JK:
Yes, JK, there is. Irony meter needing adjustment? That was half the point of the joke, which CBear seems to have gotten.
Ah, well, it’s late, I’m sure we’re all a little punchy.
.
cbear
@JGabriel: I guess now would not be the time to tell any harelip jokes, huh?
mogden
@JGabriel
I don’t particularly care for Ayn Rand. The behavior of this corporation could be explained by incompetence / bad management, bad luck, or a rational calculation that people would rather get a cheap ticket than have good customer service.
Markets fail constantly, they are just better than the alternative (government regulation), because of the incredible incentive misalignment between the public and our paid-for politicians. Sort of like how democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.
At least one could opt never to fly with such an airline.
cbear
@mogden: On second thought, maybe a libertarian-harelip joke might be appropriate.
Sorry, I’ll stop now.
JK
@JGabriel:
My irony meter is fine, many thanks for asking about it.
FUCK the NY Yankees. It’s bad enough that the wingnuts are winning the PR battle in the healthcare debate. Now, I have to watch these motherfuckers win another goddamn fucking Woirld Series.
cbear
@JK: Oh fuck yeah, I hate the fucking Yankees.
JenJen
I thought Bill Maher had it just about right last night:
The Sheriff's A Ni-
I’m at a loss to remember when a corporate boycott ever actually succeeded.
cbear
@JK: Keeping with the original theme of the thread—and the other susbsequent contretemps—and your comment—would a Thurman Munson/airplane joke be offensive?
I’ll quit now, really.
JK
@JGabriel: @cbear: @mogden:
Speaking of airlines, would any of you accept a lower ticket fare for a flight where you had to stand for the duration of the flight? Sometime last year, there was an article about an airline considering offering standing room only tickets for passengers.
Mayken
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Not to mention every fu(king airline does this! Can’t really vote with your dollars when there are no choices.
Comrade Kevin
@Corner Stone:
Good.
S'cuse me while I whip this out (formerly cbear)
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Great nic.
JK
@cbear: It might be construed that way.
The more one reads of Balloon Juice, the more one has good reason to abandon all hope.
S'cuse me while I whip this out (formerly cbear)
@JK: Yep.
…the horror, the horror.
JGabriel
@cbear:
Ok, true story. Several years, my employer at the time had a meeting regarding our health insurance, which was switching to a new provider. The rep announced that we would have to make phone calls for various things, mostly therapies like occupational therapy, speech therapy, psychotherapy, etc.
Now, I’m sure everyone here sees the problem already, because it’s easy to see these things textually, when someone’s alerted you to it, and when a health insurance rep hasn’t been droningly putting everyone to sleep for the past 20 minutes. But no one in the room reacted.
So, I figured there’s got to be a way to get a laugh of this. But everyone’s half-asleep, and the rep controls the floor. How can I can make this into quick joke? Finally, it occurs to me: I can do it in a two word punchline. Just enough to get everyone to imagine it for themselves. You gotta trust your audience sometimes. I raise my hand.
“Yes?”
“Let me get this straight. If someone needs, say speech therapy, they have to call to get permission for it?”
“Yes, that’s right.”
In my best shocked tone, I responded, “That’s cruel!”
“No, it’s not, and I’ll tell you why it’s… (Pause) Why is everyone laughing?”
.
mogden
@JK,
It would have to be an awfully big discount – sounds very uncomfortable.
Comrade Kevin
@JK:
Really? I could have sworn that the regular season has another month and a half left.
JK
@JenJen:
Bill Maher has been doing a great job on Real Time. I’d like to see him finally win an Emmy Award. I mean, how many fucking Emmys does Jon Stewart really need. I like Jon, but he’s won enough. It’s time for someone else.
mogden
@Mayken
it’s almost as if most people don’t actually think there’s a very big chance of getting imprisoned by their airline, so it doesn’t factor into their plans.
JK
@Comrade Kevin:
You know what I’m talking about. Barring 2 or 3 major injuries, the Yankees are perfectly poised to steamroll their way to another World Series. No other team is playing anywhere close to their level of play right now.
You tell me. Which team out there has any realistic chance of knocking the Yanks off in a playoff series?
Warren Terra
As long as we’re complaining about airlines, the food policy of the last few years is somewhat nuts. It used to be that there was an included sandwich or cereal or something on intermediate-length flights and often a hot meal on longer flights, and the quality was famously mediocre, but that was OK. Then they scrapped that to save a few bucks, rightly figuring that no-one flying coach loved airline food, and that people who really wanted to have a meal onboard could pack one. And that’s fine, too, really.
But then they go and sell “food”, and everything I’ve seen for sale has been both ludicrously overpriced and manifestly less desirable than the stuff they used to include in the fare. I didn’t much care when they got out of the habit of including a meal in your coach ticket, but somehow I find their grasping attempt to gouge $5 for a small pack of tortilla chips, a couple of tablespoons of salsa, and a cookie to be an insult.
Speaking of market failures, the food for sale in the terminals has scarcely changed since the airlines mostly got out of the catering business, and in particular the packed-lunch style options that you might imagine people packing to carry on tend to be minimal and, when available, terrible.
And don’t even get me started about the airlines’ shift to charging for even the first checked bag, especially as they made the change with essentially no notice.
JK
@JGabriel:
That was a good story. It would have been fun to have been there.
JGabriel
JK:
I might consider it for a short commuter flight like NYC to DC. Definitely not for anything over an hour or two, though.
.
mogden
@Warren Terra:
People love low prices on the ticket… are you going to go for the $50 more expensive fare if you got better food, slightly more room, lower flight delay? Maybe some people, but in most cases, no.
Mayken
@mogden: Which is one of the reason we need regulation on this kinda $hit. People often do not make rational decisions about their purchases because they either lack or don’t fully understand pertinent information. Both I and my husband have had this happen to us (my husband spend several hours on the tarmac in Dallas in August so you can imagine just how pleasant that was) and we know it can happen at any time. But since there is no other fu(king choice for most cross-country and all international travel, we just have to go with it. So, yeah, I would like my government, in the absence of any desire from the airlines to do what’s right, to protect me in these cases.
JenJen
@JK: To be honest, I don’t give a crap who wins an Emmy and who doesn’t. But the best part of the Emmys broadcast every year is when the late-night writers get to submit sketches for “Best Comedy Writing.”
JK
@Warren Terra:
Totally with you on the food issue. You’re right on the money. In fact, you’re making me hungry right now.
JenJen
Re: Post #68: Should’ve included a link:
youtube.com/watch?v=UGNLb0ESfVQ
cbear
@JGabriel: When confronted with similiar situations, I usually whip out the olde John Merrick:
“I, i,i, i, yam not an animal.”
Corner Stone
@Comrade Kevin: Why do you keep mentioning pie when it’s clear you will be unable to share any of it with me?
I like pie! As I’ve previously stated!
Comrade Kevin
@JK:
The Red Sox, The Rays, The Angels. There’s three.
mogden
@Mayken:
How do you know they aren’t making a rational decision? How often does this happen really?
Warren Terra
@ Mogden, #66
I thought it was pretty clear that I didn’t really mourn the loss of included airline food in coach – I just thought the manner in which it was done away with was abusive. If they’d stopped offering food entirely, or if the food for purchase had been up to any reasonable standard either of quality or of value, I’d have had no problem at all.
On the other hand, didn’t some airline(s) stop giving out beverages, instead asking for a dollar or two apiece, including (bottled) water? That seemed to me to actually be unsafe.
geemoney
The other blog(ish) thing that I think is good on airlines is on Salon. writes a lot about the issues facing the airline industry.
@JK (I think): The airline considering the standing room only flights is Ryanair. They do lots of crazy stuff, like making you pay to go to the bathroom on the plane (that idea may have been stopped). However, their flights are ridiculously cheap, so…
Mayken
@mogden: I would and do every time I am able. But there is rarely an option because the airlines trying to pack more and more people in. And even the seats they do have available with more leg room or other amenities are only available for frequent fliers. Us unwashed who can’t afford first or business class and only fly 4 or 5 times a year so never have enough points to upgrade just have to deal with it.
I’m fine with that – they need to make money but the fact is that the airlines have us pretty much captive, they know it, and they will continue to push us till we are all flying standing up to Europe as long as they are able to get away with it. And there is not a damn thing any consumer can do to change that despite what “free market” true believers want us to think. So while they are busy wringing every last $ out of us, I would like them to be federally prevented from holding me with no food and water on the tarmac for hours because they are afraid to lose their place in line.
geemoney
Ugh. HTML fail. Patrick Smith writes the column. Bring back the buttons!
JK
@JGabriel:
I’m very surprised to hear you say that. On paper, standing during a short commuter flight sounds plausible. In reality, there could be a lot of time spent waiting on the tarmac before takeoff and there could be a lot of time spent circling an airport before you’re actually cleared for landing.
@JenJen:
I know it’s not the most important thing in the world. It just bothers me sometimes, when a great artist doesn’t get the proper recognition they clearly deserve. Bill Maher is every bit as funny as Jon Stewart, but he always seems to get treated like chop liver when it comes to awards.
mogden
@Warren Terra:
I’m not sure how making you a bad offer which you can ignore would count as abusive.
cbear
How bout we just let our corporate overlords tattoo barcodes on our asses. That should clear up a lot of the inefficiencies in the system and speed up travel.
mogden
@cbear
Good idea! We can put it right next to the government issued RFID chip.
JK
@Comrade Kevin:
If I were not an atheist, I would pray to God that you are correct. It sucks to see the Yankees win a World Series and it sucks even more when you live in NY.
@geemoney:
Would you pay for an airline ticket to stand all the way? I sure as hell, would never do that.
cbear
@mogden: Ah, there’s the key word, “government”.
In gooperland, regulating an airline that forces you to sit in your own waste for 6-10 hours would lead to communism.
geemoney
@JK: I would not, but I am a little older, and wiser (I hope) these days. That said, I was surprised to hear family members say that they would do it. I think the context is important. Ryanair is mostly doing relatively short hops in Europe. If you could pay $10 to go from Berlin to Edinburgh, but standing room, I think there is a market for that. I now travel with a kid, so that market ain’t for me, but it probably sounds pretty good to the youngsters. Get off my lawn!
Here is the link from Patrick Smith that talks about the recent wait on the plane “http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2009/08/14/askthepilot330/index.html”. Yes, I suck at HTML, and can’t be bothered to look up how to do it right.
JK
@JenJen:
That was absolutely priceless. I shudder to think how much more fucking depressing life in America would be today if we didn’t have Bill Maher, David Letterman, Conan O’Brien, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colberty, Jay Leno, Craig Ferguson, Jimmy Kimmel, and The Onion.
You have to admit though, that the Emmys fucked up big time this year by not nominating The Shield and Rescue Me for Best Drama Series and not giving either show any acting nominations.
cbear
@JK: Would you pay for an airline ticket to stand all the way? I sure as hell, would never do that.”
I might be able to hack it for a short trip….unless I were forced to stand between Candy Crowley and Rush Limbaugh. lol.
cbear
Things you don’t want to hear in a airport….
“Attention travelers, attention, GooperAir flight #666 to HolyLand is now boarding.”
JK
@cbear: @cbear:
LOL. Please don’t stop now. You’re on a roll.
JGabriel
cbear:
Games of chance are available at …
.
cbear
@JK:
GooperAir Pilot: Joey, does it make you feel kind of funny inside when Scruffy rubs up and down on your leg?”
Cassidy in Iraq
@JK: Damn liberals and their rationing. First it’s healthcare, now it’s Emmy’s. When will it stop!
JK
@Cassidy in Iraq:
No one is talking rationing. Bill Maher is simply long overdue for an Emmy.
cbear
Things you don’t want to hear in a airport (airplane)…
“Attention passengers, your Air Vietnam flight will be slightly delayed while Dr. Kissinger boards. Please remain in your seats.”
“This is the Captain speaking, we are now entering Iraqi airspace. Will passenger Bush please come forward to the cabin.”
JGabriel
cbear: Airplane! just seems a lot less funny, somehow, ever since An American Carol.
~ SPOILER ~
It’s like the end of the story changed everything and ruined it, the way BSG was ruined when all of the mystery, and goals, and unanswered questions, ended with Hera humping apes.
~ End SPOILER ~
.
Cassidy in Iraq
@JK: Yes, but that’s where it starts: minorities deserve equality in the legal system, poor people deserve healthcare, Bill Maher deserves an Emmy because he doesn’t have one. Communist and Socialist, I swear.
Cassidy in Iraq
@JK: Yes, but that’s where it starts: minorities deserve equality in the legal system, poor people deserve healthcare, Bill Maher deserves an Emmy because he doesn’t have one. Communist and Soc1alist, I swear.
cbear
@JGabriel: “An American Carol” the screenplay is written by Myrna Sokoloff….
Sokoloff. Sounds like something that might happen to an unsuspecting traveler in a Minnesota airport.
“I’m not sure what happened, officer. I was just standing there trying to take a leak and the next thing you know this asshole tried to sokoloff my gingrich.”
Blue Raven
@cbear:
Would I? Would I?
El Cid
If it weren’t for all these oppressive regulations. then the airlines could simply flood the passenger compartment with sleeping gas, and not have to deal with all these whiners.
And the teabaggers could be sent out to scream that anyone objecting is trying to steal SLEEP from America, they are plotting to make us stay awake until we DIE.
bob h
“Continental and Delta could bus in teabaggers to scream about how the Airline Passengers Bill of Rights would lead to death panels and mass euthanasia.”
In the emerging American mobocracy, that is exactly what will happen.
A Mom Anon
One of these days,someone with diabetes or another illness will die during one of these idiot driven incidents,then what?
For a culture of life,there sure doesn’t seem to be alot of respect for,well,life,in general.
Can I beat the Christmas rush and just start hating nearly everyone now? (present company-mostly-excepted)
JK
Good morning to whoever else is out there.
It’s 8:48 in my neck of the woods, where’s the Sunday morning open thread?
steve s
The Brutal Truth About America’s Health Care:
independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html
Nutella
Here’s what I don’t understand: After a while, especially if you’re sitting in stopped plane next to a closed terminal, why not call the police and report that 30 people have been kidnapped and are being held against their will? That’s a pretty good description of what really happened and surely the local cops would come out to reason with the crew about letting people into the terminal.
geg6
Good Sunday morning, Juicers! Really super wonky weekend I had at NN. After the experience of attending just a few forums there, it stuns me that people who are even more wonky than me and who write about wonky issues and policies in very knowledgeable and entertaining ways are still not considered serious people by our Punditocracy all because it takes place on the Toobz. I still haven’t stopped being a bit bedazzled and need time to absorb it. But the CBS Sunday Morning segment on the health care debate was a lovely bit of analysis on the Real American level of understanding. Actual straight talk in the MSM! What a concept!
AhabTRuler
Because you would be arrested and charged as a terrorist.
Tom Betz
That sounds like an improvement in circumstances to me.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@El Cid:
How have we gotten this far in the thread without someone mentioning lemon-soaked paper napkins? Adams looks more prescient every day.
John Hamilton Farr
I hated commercial flying well before 9/11. And you have your title not quite right: it should be “Like Flying in a Flammable Gasoline-Filled Aluminum Tube.”
As for what happened to those poor people, that’s one reason I only fly if I absolutely have to, which has been about twice in the last 10 years. I’m an unofficial claustrophobe, and no way in hell could I have survived in that parked aircraft without being heavily sedated. I would have gone beserk and been arrested, whatever it would have taken to GET ME OFF that thing.
The security regulations have ruined so much of the air travel experience. In the old days, I could go to the airport and watch a loved one’s plane take off, for instance. But the overall effect of the regulations is to make everyone feel like a criminal, and that is a crime against humanity.
Egypt Steve
Anyone know enough about FAA regs. and the applicable law to know what would happen if someone just opened the emergency doors and slid down out of the plane??? That is my fantasy if trapped in this way.
Mayken
@Nutella: Actually, someone mentioned in the comments of one of the stories on this that a pilot friend of him advised him to claim a medical emergency which would force them to return to the gate.
Nutella
Well, I’d be a little concerned about reporting a non-existent medical emergency. If there really was one, even a fairly minor one, then I’d say it’s OK to call the ambulance. A false report could get you in legal trouble. But after all those hours with no food and water and full toilets I expect there were a few medical problems.
Another thing I wonder about: There are legal limits to how long the crew can work. After they exceed their maximum hours, are they off duty?
This may seem like a weird question if you don’t know that the flight attendants are not paid until the plane doors close for the flight (in at least one major airline, but I expect if one gets away with it they all do).
Jeff
I’ll try to keep this short. The Continental story is, apparently, nothing new. I was on American Airlines flight 1348 from San Francisco to Dallas-Fort Worth on Dec. 29, 2006. We were diverted to Austin because of weather at DFW. Long story-short: We ended up staying on the tarmac at Austin for what the FAA later determined to be 9.5 hours. This after at least one call for passengers to volunteer to get off the plane in Austin about halfway through our ordeal. Needless to say, that never happened.
To think that not a single authorized individual in Austin or DFW could’ve ordered that plane grounded (in Austin) or released to fly (to Dallas-Fort Worth) is beyond incompetent and inexcusable. There was at least one pregnant woman on board, several elderly people, a few diabetics, and other people like me who just needed to pee and eat. Nine and a half hours. This was just before the Jet Blue incident in New York on Valentine’s Day 2007. Our story got some press, but also got buried under the story of Saddam’s execution.
Some passengers formed a group that has done its best to press our congresspeople to pass a sensible rights bill to prevent airlines and airports from behaving this way. The resistance to it reminds me a lot of resistance to ethics bills. What are you hiding, eh, assholes? In my more cynical days, I think it might have to take a few Republican congressmen getting stranded for some sort of action to ensue. Pathetic.
Corner Stone
@Nutella:
First Rule of Going to an ER: Always tell them you’re having trouble breathing.
Same thing applies here, as it’s impossible to prove you were not in fact having trouble breathing. In any event, I’ll take my chances with them trying to get me to pay for an ambulance ride as opposed to getting booked by the police or DHS just to get off the plane.
shelley matheis
When I heard this story, my first thought was ‘Didn’t they pass A Passenger’s Rights Bill after the Jet Blue disaster?’ Guess that Bill’s just zipping thru our nation’s capital. I guess the TeaBagger’s don’t have to fret that Congress is rushing this one.
Also have to love how there was much cross-blaming in this fiasco. When asked, why not just let the passengers wait in the terminal, the airline said the airport wouldn’t allow it, the passengers would have to go thru the whole security check again. The airport spokesman said that was nonsense. They could of had the people wait in a secured area till take-off, with a lot more comfort.
burnspbesq
@jcricket:
The shareholders seem to be a tiny group of already rich people who do indeed benefit from the corporate malfeasance, penny-pinching, poor consumer handling, etc.
Umm, no. If you have a 401(k) or an IRA, or if you are in a public employee retirement plan, “the shareholders” is you. Unless the fiduciaries of your plan are burying your money in a big pit behind their offices. In which case, you have some cause for concern.
Mnemosyne
Depends on the airport. Most of the major airports in the West have California Pizza Kitchen outlets with pizzas, sandwiches and salads. If you end up at one of the little regional ones like Burbank, though, you’re still screwed.
Tax Analyst
jcricket said:
“We’re in as much danger of over regulation as I am of winning the NBA finals next year.”
Well, it’s too bad for you that the NBA has that so-she-al-list-ic Salary Cap, because without it you might have been able to sign Lamar Odom away from the Lakers. That would almost certainly have improved your chances in next year’s NBA Finals. In a Libertarian World you would have had a fair shot.
But you still might be able to get Stephon Marbury.
Tax Analyst
JK said:
“You tell me. Which team out there has any realistic chance of knocking the Yanks off in a playoff series?”
Ummm…I’m going from memory here, but I seem to recall the Angels have whupped the Yankees collectively over-hyped asses on a fairly regular basis for quite a few consecutive regular seasons and whatever play-off meetings they have had this decade (it might have been only once, in ’02). Now the Angels have certainly had plenty of trouble dealing with the Red Sox, but the Sox aren’t going to be in the play-offs this year unless they figure out how to win a better percentage of their games pretty soon.