Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

White supremacy is terrorism.

You would normally have to try pretty hard to self-incriminate this badly.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

Everybody saw this coming.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Tick tock motherfuckers!

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Houston DNC Debate, Post II

Houston DNC Debate, Post II

by | 254 Comments

This post is in: 

Reader Interactions

254Comments

  1. 1.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Have to say, not that it surprises anyone, I’m really digging Beto’s BDE and he would destroy Trump with white suburban women.

    Everyone else has been worse than I expected they would be (especially Kamala).

  3. 3.

    Mike in NC

    Is Fat Bastard live tweeting insults about the debate? It’s well past his bed time but he literally has nothing better to do at night.

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    Did Bernie just say that NAFTA and PNTR with China cost 4 Billion jobs??

    His screaming into his mic and popping his Ps isn’t helping get his message across.

    Joe just called Warren “Senator Warner”. (Probably thinking of John Warner, not Mark Warner.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  17. 17.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: “Sundowning” the entire country is hard work. Pacing back and forth while Tweeting random cray-cray while not tripping and falling over his cell phone charging cord requires constant focus.

  19. 19.

    206inKY

    @Dog Dawg Damn: I think Beto and Warren are the stars of the show right now. I hope Warren takes him along as VP. Beto’s answers on guns, race, and immigration were all absolutely stellar. Warren has made the best case against the fillibuster and corruption. They are the only two candidates speaking directly to the issues, and doing it well, though Harris gave the best answer on defending Obamacare from Trump’s attacks. Everyone else seems preoccupied with their standing relative to other people on stage.

  23. 23.

    Mary G

    Wow, Warren really knocking it out on Afghanistan. She is so good at explaining complicated things in basic terms. “The problems in Afghanistan are problems that cannot be solved by the military.”

  24. 24.

    zhena gogolia

    Pretty good line on Wonkette:

    We must point out to the Kamala team, and we know at least one of you will read this, but the “guy from Wizard Of Oz” is named “The Wizard Of Oz.”

  25. 25.

    Ella in New Mexico

    At this point (and I’ve had an adult beverage or two so be gentle on me) a government with ANY of these people as President and all the rest of them as Cabinet heads would be fucking outstanding to me. ESP if Harris is Attorney General if she’s not the Pres.

    OMG our peeps are the only future we have that makes any sense at all.

  31. 31.

    chris

    LOL Cory Booker

    “I’m the only person on this stage who finds Trudeau’s hair very menacing, but they are not a national security threat,” Cory Booker says of Canada and its leader, Justin Trudeau

  32. 32.

    Another Scott

    Joe’s talking about Afghanistan, saying he was against “The Surge” from the beginning.

    The Surge was in Iraq.

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  33. 33.

    Mary G

    Biden: I’ve been in and out of Afghanistan more than anybody on this stage.
    Because you are old, Joe.

  34. 34.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Did Booker just make a bald joke?

    About being ‘the only one on stage threatened by Justin Trudeau’s hair?” As a bankshot at You-Know-Who, I thought that was pretty good!

  35. 35.

    MomSense

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yup. Another thing that bothers me was during her healthcare answer when she said doctors won’t need to hire people to deal with insurance and billing. And she has endorsed Bernie’s Medicare in 4 years with no more private insurance companies. There are a helluva lot of people, and a lot of middle aged women, who work those medical billing jobs. How the hell are we going to transition all of those people to new jobs? What kind of jobs?

  37. 37.

    FelonyGovt

    I think Warren and Beto have been the stars so far although Buttigieg and Booker have had their moments as well. I’m a Harris supporter but I don’t think she is coming off very well tonight.

  39. 39.

    Anne Laurie

    @206inKY: I think both Beto and Pete are campaigning to be Warren’s (or Harris’) VP tonight — any of those possible combos sound good!

  47. 47.

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    @MomSense: Jay made a good point on the previous thread which was that all the insurance companies would end up doing different types of insurance. a medicare-for-all would cover basic stuff but there’s still tons of things like travel Health insurance, dental insurance, cosmetic surgeries out of country kind of insurance , that would all exist and people would pay extra for and would all need billing. So all those people would still have jobs. I think it was a great explanation of how the industry would change for the better for everyone. However our candidates aren’t speaking to that.

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Another Scott: Joe’s talking about Afghanistan, saying he was against “The Surge” from the beginning.
    The Surge was in Iraq.

    people have used the term to describe Obama’s troop increase in Iraq in 2010

    But advocates of the new approach have long warned of the dangers of the Obama-era strategy, which included a 30,000-person surge into Afghanistan in 2010 that was accompanied by a preannounced 2011 deadline for withdrawing them.

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    Wait for the general. Each are better than Trump. I am looking at coherent world view, not (oddly enough) any “plan.”. Warren, Koblachar, maybe Harris have that. And I still like Harris and Warren best. I am not looking for reasons to hate them.

  54. 54.

    Ohio Mom

    @MomSense: I appreciate that Harris is unflappable. You can see spurts of anxiety in most of them but she remains relaxed. At least during the snippets I’ve seen.

  55. 55.

    Another Scott

    @Omnes Omnibus: The hubris of business guys thinking that the first elected office they should hold is President, is, well, it’s kinda hubris-y.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  62. 62.

    Betty

    @MomSense: I think the govt. would probably subcontract the insurance companies to process claims. Some execs and marketing personnel will be displaced.

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    This whole field (minus two old guys) is doing us proud.

    Isn’t it great not to have Delaney, Williamson, Hick, and the rest up there?

  69. 69.

    Immanentize

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I agree. But what I have seen is more “outcome first, analysis later to support outcome” in people’s primary choices. If you have by chance avoided that equation, good on you!

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: I hope in their closing statements at least one of them mentions that the Democrats are not the ones trying to close their primaries.

  74. 74.

    MomSense

    @Betty:

    And all the people who work for the providers? A lot more people work on the clerical side of heath care than people realize.

  75. 75.

    Ladyraxterinok

    Q In part 1 someone suggested a Warren/Beto ticket. Like them both.

    Something to consider —Beto’s come out very strongly for gun control. GOP will rile up their base on this.

    Also he apparently mentioned ‘1619’ favorably. GOP would go after him even more explicitly than against the others appealing to their racist base.

    GOP could come out harder and clearer against him on these 2 points than they could the others.

    Although GOP hits us uon these 2 points hit and heavy all the time.

  82. 82.

    MomSense

    @WaterGirl:

    My emails are a mess! With the whole job search thing I’m now getting all the job search emails even though I tried to shut them off off. I’ll go looking for your email.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    @Leto: First hit in a quick search, FTFNYT from 2009:

    In January 2007, he opposed Mr. Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq by arguing that “if we’re going to surge anywhere,” then it “should be Afghanistan.” In August of that year, when Mr. Obama, too, proposed more troops for Afghanistan, Mr. Biden’s camp responded with a statement calling him a “Johnny-come-lately” and suggesting that it was “a little disingenuous” of Mr. Obama.

    But by the time Mr. Biden traveled to Afghanistan again in February 2008, he was rethinking his views, according to people close to him. He had grown sour on President Hamid Karzai and the Kabul government’s pervasive corruption. During a now-famous dinner, Mr. Biden became exasperated by Mr. Karzai’s denials about corruption, threw down his napkin and declared, “This dinner is over.”

    His answer was a mess, but it looks like his actual record on “I was against the surge from the beginning” is even more of a mess.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  87. 87.

    smintheus

    Wow. Yang just blew his foot off with that answer “I got a kid……I wasn’t there because I’m running for president.”

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    Yang keeps talking about this great $1000/month stipend so they can do all these awesome things …why doesn’t he just talk about how badly the 99% need a raise?

    Seriously. Want to do a stock buyback, corporation X? Then show us how you gave your employees a 5% or better raise last year.

  93. 93.

    Steve in the ATL

    @MomSense:

    There are a helluva lot of people, and a lot of middle aged women, who work those medical billing jobs. How the hell are we going to transition all of those people to new jobs? What kind of jobs?

    There was talk last nights of retraining and truck stop hookers

  97. 97.

    HumboldtBlue

    @MomSense:

    What kind of jobs?

    Whatever they can get. I was downsized for the third time in 16 years and now I need a job. No one gave a shit I lost work because of corporate greed. I’ve been paying an insurance company more than $220 a month for three years and I still can’t find a regular doctor. They can go look for work like I must do.

    (I understand your underlying concern, just a tad bitter today)

  98. 98.

    lamh36

    THIS is the fight that LOYAL CONSISTENT Dem voters want. The fairy tale “soft Trump voter” the other candidates are trying to attract are an illusion! Fuq trying to turn a bunch of racist away from their racist president…drag his azz for filth!

    @nprpolitics
    In contrast to other candidates, Sen. Kamala Harris is pivoting to critiques of President Trump in answer after answer tonight. n.pr/2UTnuJ3

  101. 101.

    lamh36

    @ABC
    Amid a lively debate among the 10 candidates on health care, Kamala Harris focuses her attention on Pres. orange man: “Let’s focus on the end goal. If we don’t get orange man out of office, he’s going to get rid of all of it.” #DemDebate @ABC

  104. 104.

    lamh36

    @cmclymer
    2m2 minutes ago
    More
    “If a Black child has a Black teacher before 3rd grade, they are 13% more likely to go to college. If they have two Black teachers before 3rd grade, they are 30% more likely to go to college.”

    — Kamala Harris

    #DemDebate

  106. 106.

    hitchhiker

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    GOP will invent stuff to rile its base. In 2018 they worked the “invasion at the southern border” to death. In 2014 is was all about ebola and Obama’s failure to stop it. In 2010 is was death panels. Those were the off-year efforts.

    In 2020 they’re going to run on abortion, trump, guns, trump, taxes, trump, religious liberty, trump, and trump.

    My own opinion is that Beto and whoever might as well say bold things. They’ll be accused of saying them, and the accusations will be believed, even if they don’t.

    Because it’s RIGHT to consider taxing the wealthy and raising minimum wage and buying back AR15s, it just might also be right to say it loud and proud.

  111. 111.

    Butter Emails

    @MomSense:

    Yup. Another thing that bothers me was during her healthcare answer when she said doctors won’t need to hire people to deal with insurance and billing. And she has endorsed Bernie’s Medicare in 4 years with no more private insurance companies. There are a helluva lot of people, and a lot of middle aged women, who work those medical billing jobs. How the hell are we going to transition all of those people to new jobs? What kind of jobs?

    ///I have the same issue when they talk about decriminalizing marijuana, eliminating private prisons and police reform. If we stop imprisoning so many people, particularly minorities there’s going to be less of a need for corrections officers, prison guards and prion staff. Where are we going to find all the jobs for the people laid off from the prison industrial complex, let alone all those who won’t be incarcerated?

  113. 113.

    Leto

    @Omnes Omnibus: Why does his voice only go from 1-screech? Why does his right hand immediately go into finger wag mode before the moderator is finished asking the question? I feel considerably lucky that we got the answer to how many licks to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop. For the rest, the world may never know!

    Edit: @MomSense: Haha, yes!

  115. 115.

    Ohio Mom

    @HumboldtBlue: Ohio Dad was laid off on the spring, just started a new job after over four months of looking. For less money. So I get your bitterness. It’s a grueling place to be.

    Hang in there, we are pulling for you.

  116. 116.

    chris

    @MomSense: A lot of those workers will go to the government because they already speak the lingo. Others will end up at clinics figuring out who pays for what.

  122. 122.

    Another Scott

    @FelonyGovt: I think Harris has done very well. But I can see that some might feel she’s somehow “arrogant” for not keeping to the latest 45s answer segment. She’s very personable and her eyes light up in some of her answers, but she gives people inclined to dislike her reasons if they want to look for them.

    Harris, Warren, Beto, and even Castro did well, IMO.

    Booker has some good lines, but they don’t resonate with me.

    Pete rubs me the wrong way.

    Yang shouldn’t be up there.

    Klobuchar didn’t get enough time, but the time she did have didn’t impress me (but I’m not her audience).

    Biden needs to go home.

    Bernie should join the party or quit wasting everyone’s time. He is just a bunch of slogans and can’t get anything done.

    That’s all 10?

    I think the top 4 above are the policy powerhouses. Castro made some enemies tonight, and he can’t get much national traction it seems. Maybe VP is what he’s after.

    It looks like a Warren / Harris race to me. Biden will probably only fade slowly, but I expect him to fade. He just isn’t in the same league as the women.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    Leto

    @clay: pulitzercenter.org/sites/default/files/full_issue_of_the_1619_project.pdf

    In August of 1619, a ship appeared on this horizon, near Point Comfort, a coastal port in the British colony of Virginia. It carried more than 20 enslaved Africans, who were sold to the colonists. America was not yet America, but this was the moment it began. No aspect of the country that would be formed here has been untouched by the 250 years of slavery that followed. On the 400th anniversary of this fateful moment, it is finally time to tell our story truthfully. – The 1619 Project

  125. 125.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @clay: Project by the FTFNYT that essentially serves as a history of slavery in this country – so naturally right-wingers hate it. One of the few unambiguously good things the FTFNYT has done lately. Named after the year the first African slaves were brought over here.

    ETA: Beaten to the punch. Should have figured that would happen.

    Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  126. 126.

    Anne Laurie

    @lamh36: One thing that struck me & the Spousal Unit (who doesn’t usually watch these things, but I didn’t warn him in advance this time) is that Harris is pleasant to hear! Hardly the most important thing to choose a candidate on, but it’s an advantage that those notorious low-info voters are going to find it easier to listen to her than to… well, screechy old men shouting over each other.

    (And, although I’m generally positive about Klobuchar, not everybody finds ‘Midwestern female twang’ warmly nostalgic… )

  127. 127.

    Jeffro

    You know, it doesn’t have to be in a debate against his current challengers, but I would greatly appreciate it if the national news “media” would press the current president* to answer the same questions that the Democratic candidates answered tonight.

    On live tv please.

    Kthxbai

  128. 128.

    Jay

    @MomSense:

    In Canada, there’s a crap load of people who work on billing.

    Does it go to Medicare?
    Out of Province Medicare?
    Blue Cross?
    Canada Life?
    Zurich Insurance,
    900+ other Companies?

    The key, is that the Hospitals are not for profit, so an Asprin is $1.27, proscribed, delivered,

    Not $12,876.

    A 2 hour hot stone massage for my torn up hand, is $122.50.

    Half an hour of laser therapy is $50,

    All covered by “top up” Private Insurance.

    A root canal, extraction and insert cost me personally, $71.

  129. 129.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Omnes Omnibus: Absolutely agree. Just a comment regarding the irritating question of electability.

    But people voting vs a candidate who’s pro gun control and pro racial justice and equality wouldn’t consider a Democrat at all.

  131. 131.

    Mary G

    @Kay: It is a good debate. There have been a few “let’s you and him fight” questions, but mostly the moderators have been much more disciplined and brief instead of pontificating like some of the previous ones.

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    @Leto: Understood.

    I was annoyed by his answer.

    The US military has been put in an unending treadmill for far, far too long and it ruined far too many lives. Biden trying to claim some sort of prescience about Afghanistan and Iraq was distateful even if he was on the right side at times.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  142. 142.

    Another Scott

    Why did George call Biden “Senator Biden” on restarting the question after the protesters shouted him down?

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  144. 144.

    jl

    The protesters aren’t doing a good job if even the people there on the stage can’t figure out what they are yelling.

  147. 147.

    MomSense

    Maybe you should practice your diction before you decide to interrupt the debate with a protest. I can’t understand what they are shouting.

  148. 148.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Why are Bernie’s shoulders six inches higher than those of a normal human?

    He’s old, his spine is shrinking, which is normal. But *sensible* older candidates learn to compensate by holding themselves more erect — sometimes to an extreme, hellooo Mr. Biden.

    Bernie doesn’t see reality when he looks in a mirror, or else (also) if he held his head up, he’d have to stop leaning in to wag his finger in everyones’ faces.

  153. 153.

    Gelfling 545

    @MomSense: I’m sorry she said that because I don’t even think it’s true. Maybe there will be fewer but somebody is going to have to notify medicare who to pay & for whom & what. Doctors do just as much billing for medicare as any other insurance currently. I don’t see that disappearing any time soon.

  155. 155.

    Leto

    @Another Scott: No problem, and I understand the annoyance. I have a ton of it regarding decisions around the military/foreign policy too.

    @germy: ANDREW YANG PROMISED ME FROZEN YOGURT BUCKS! ANDREW YANG PROMISED ME FROZEN YOGURT BUCKS!

  156. 156.

    206inKY

    Both Warren and Sanders need to stop describing laundry lists of expensive reforms. Warren is so great at describing systems or issues in accessible terms, but listing off multiple new programs like free college all at once plays right into the stereotype of Democrats as class president candidates who promise the moon. I also think they are falling into a false consensus bias about dissatisfaction with private health benefits and/or Obamacare. Harris, Pete, and Beto have all clearly seen the polling. Still, Warren and Beto seem like the best two candidates tonight.

  158. 158.

    lamh36

    @rweingarten
    Follow Follow @rweingarten
    More
    Thank you @KamalaHarris for highlighting the importance of diverse teachers for diverse children. #AFTvotes #DemDebate

    Representation matters, especially for minority children. If you can imagine yourself in the adults shoes, then you might actually believe that you can do the what do when you get older.

  161. 161.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:
    I know and understand, in fact I only thought, hmmm. but I thought it was interesting what an immediate negative impression a new first time pres. voter had. We are definitely in transition.

  163. 163.

    Jeffro

    These are wildly inspirational people.
    Elections are about the future.
    We are so incredibly going to win.

  165. 165.

    The Moar You Know

    Something to consider —Beto’s come out very strongly for gun control. GOP will rile up their base on this.

    Also he apparently mentioned ‘1619’ favorably. GOP would go after him even more explicitly than against the others appealing to their racist base.

    GOP could come out harder and clearer against him on these 2 points than they could the others.

    @Ladyraxterinok: Tucker Carlson is telling his viewers that John Bolton was a leftist progressive. John Bolton. You cannot give a shit what the GOP says about any of our candidates, because they will say anything and everything this election.

    I would bet cold hard cash that within one month, every Dem still in the race will be accused of either pedophilia or murder or both. And that will just be the beginning.

  168. 168.

    lamh36

    @atima_omara
    1m1 minute ago
    More
    Kamala Harris on the question of resilence: speaking personally to the experience of black women who’ve lived their lives trying to achieve, like running for office, when the world tells you no, all the time is real #blackwomenlead #DemDebate

  171. 171.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @hitchhiker: When Beto said Hell yes we’ll get the AR (whatever) back! I felt like he blew the entire primary onto a different track. It felt like a gamechanger.

    Someone who had the potential to do something about gun deaths was speaking bluntly from the heart, NOT speaking for the TV cameras and the pundits.

  174. 174.

    lamh36

    @fawfulfan
    1h1 hour ago
    More
    The method Warren is proposing for trade negotiation — bringing unions, farmers, and environmentalists to the table — is exactly what Obama did to negotiate the TPP. Which she fiercely opposed on a bunch of specious grounds.

    I like her a lot, but she’s awful on this issue.

  175. 175.

    206inKY

    Biden seems so old tonight, maybe unelectable. I had thought he was a safe fallback option, but I’m genuinely worried for the first time about whether he will be able to hang in there for the general election. That leaves Warren as the only viable choice of the top three, even though I’m uneasy about her too. But my uneasiness is with her proposals and framing, which can adjust for the general, whereas Biden and Sanders might be unelectable because of things that can’t be changed.

    I’m voting Warren if it’s a three-way race, but I’m donating to Beto.

  177. 177.

    lamh36

    @KamalaHarris
    3m3 minutes ago
    More
    Each time I ran for office, people would say: it’s not your time, it’s not your turn, it’s going to be too difficult, they’re not ready for you.

    But I didn’t listen. #DemDebate

  179. 179.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Bernie’s political Korea? Huh?

    Here in Massachusetts, the joke runs: Korea is what you do for a living; Career is a country in Asia. Despite hanging on to his fake-y ‘Brooklyn’ accent like Kissinger did his German ditto, listening to New Englandaahs eventually wears ya down!

  184. 184.

    lamh36

    I’m pretty sure the Cillizz piece was already written to publish

    @Bakari_Sellers
    Y’all can burn your little Harris2020 obituaries y’all wanted to write tomorrow.

    9:25 PM – 12 Sep 2019

  192. 192.

    smintheus

    @lamh36: That’s utter bullshit. Obama insisted on maintaining strict secrecy surrounding the TPP negotiations, and by the time the terms were revealed they were practically take-it-or-leave-it.

  194. 194.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @clay: 1619 project. NYT 400 year history of slavery/racism from 1st landing of slaves from Africa in what later became VA

  195. 195.

    jk

    @Jeffro:

    @Another Scott:

    Biden needs to go home. Bernie should join the party or quit wasting everyone’s time. He is just a bunch of slogans and can’t get anything done.

    Any Democratic ticket that excludes Biden and Sanders would be great. These 2 guys are a fucking drag and they need to call it a day already.

  201. 201.

    Another Scott

    Klobuchar’s closing story was good, up until the end when she seemed to be trying to say something different but it came out as “these liberals aren’t real Americans like I am who come from the center of the country”. It left a bad taste after I was enjoying her story.

    Castro’s closing statement was very strong. Giving up a $100,000 a year job to vote the right way on a city council – and only get paid $1040 a year for it takes guts.

    I liked Harris’s closing a lot.

    Warren seemed a little flustered because she already told her story about wanting to be a school teacher, but seemed to get her footing later.

    I think they all did pretty well except for the two old white guys and Yang.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  203. 203.

    Jeffro

    @mrmoshpotato: I’m sure our stalwart national media will demand some sort of evidence for such outlandish claims.

    Right?

    No?

    Then I guess we’d better do that, ourselves

  204. 204.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:
    It’s funny because my visceral negative it to Bernie. Joe seems like a stooge, not an phony. I just don’t agree with Joe’s ‘let’s go back to when things were better schtick.’. But my son hates that! and prefers shouty old man talking about stirring shit up. Ah, youth.

  205. 205.

    Jay

    @lamh36:

    TPP11 passed. Funny that.

    Once US Corporate Interests were ditched, like slave labour, by the US leaving, under Dolt 45, 2 months to passing, 4 months to ratification.

    Funny that.

    Almost like there’s some kinda Corporate Infection in the US Government.

  206. 206.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    just catching up with the clips on MSNBC, and one might be forgiven for thinking they’re trying to make Julian Castro look like an asshole, but having followed here looking at a bit of twitter, one might be forgiven for thinking that was Castro’s plan

  207. 207.

    Butter Emails

    @lamh36:
    This is a specious argument. Obama may have brought these groups to the table, but due to corporate influence the TPP was far less friendly to labor than it could have been.

  209. 209.

    TS (the original)

    @MomSense: @MomSense:

    How the hell are we going to transition all of those people to new jobs? What kind of jobs?

    Check out the NHS in UK & similar in other countries – the number of people employed in health care is equal to the number employed in the crazy system where people are fighting health care companies in regard to their payments. Regardless as to who and how of health care – be it private insurance or medicare for all – the systems employ lots of people.

  210. 210.

    Ohio Mom

    @Ladyraxterinok: The NYT’s 1619 Project was not just the history of racism but racism as the grand unifying theory of so much of what is wrong and ugly about US culture. The traffic jams caused by suburban sprawl, our vicious criminal justice/prison sysytem, our lack of a national health care system, are just three examples of the ways the legacies of slavery continue to shape our lives.

    I wanted to get a copy from the Time’s store but they are sold out. I put myself on the waiting list if they do a second printing. They really should print a hard copy book version, it should be in every library.

  211. 211.

    smintheus

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Well the pro-Harris propagandists would have us believe that Obama negotiated TPP in public, because that’s clearly what Warren advocates when she says that people advocating for public and labor interests have to be involved in trade negotiations and the pro-Harris crowd would have us believe that Warren is pretending that her and Obama’s approach were not exactly the same.

  214. 214.

    MisterForkbeard

    @lamh36: To ights de ate reminded why I like Kamala so much. I gave to her campaign for the first time in about 5 weeks.

    I think that’s her problem, actually. Kamala is awesome and comes across that way on camera. but she doesnt get to do that in a high exposure environment much. Hopefully her campaign can use this performance to push her more and get some attention.

  217. 217.

    Butter Emails

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    The corporate influence in TPP was IP issues.

    Right. And it was a negotiation. What did we leave on the table in terms of the environment, labor, etc. in order to get what we wanted regarding IP issues?

  218. 218.

    Ruckus

    @Betty:
    In the long run it is. But as the system is kludged together they are important. Last private MD I had there were 2 docs, a nurse and an LP. And 5 women worked coding and billing. If that office was anything towards normal that’s a lot of people out of work if private insurance is eliminated. Not to mention the people who work at the insurance companies trying to figure out how to not pay for your care. We can do as other countries have done and restrict the private insurance companies to a smaller profit margin and restrict how their business operate. That would save a lot, as would building a proper coding system. As well we could phase out insurance over a time frame, with some left over for those who wanted optional services that healthcare wouldn’t/maybe shouldn’t provide.
    In any event to alter the system massively would take a number of years just to make all the pieces fit.

  222. 222.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    My youngest likes Bernie too, and is being unbearable about the rest of the candidates. I’d be fine with any of these, except Yang. I don’t mind him but he’s bluffing his way through this and he’s just about reached the end of being able to do that. They really do know a lot about government and policy, these people, and he just doesn’t. That starts to show right about now. It seems to be a particular conceit of businesspeople that their experience in the private sector magically transfers to the public sector. I don’t think that’s true.

  223. 223.

    JR

    @TS (the original): Unsaid in any discussion of health care reform is that US medical practitioners are paid far more than their European counterparts. Any real reduction in US health care expenditures will have to come in part from MD/PA/NP pockets. That’s going to be a politically dicey situation, to say the least.

  227. 227.

    MisterForkbeard

    @smintheus: She made a pretty clear case that all the Democrats care, have decent plans, and the real issue is Trump and what he’ll do to everyone.

    Brave? Not particularly. Honest, useful and necessary? Yep.

    Maybe not clip of the night but definitely a good one. And part of her recurring theme from previous debates.

  229. 229.

    smintheus

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: A bit of hypocrisy for Harris (as well as Buttigieg and Klobuchar) to spend time attacking their rivals and then turn right around and praise themselves as the candidate(s) who will only attack Trump…unlike all the rest of youse guys who attacking each other’s plans, not that I’m criticizing you for it, mind you.

    The more I see of Harris, the more it seems like her forte is bullshitting.

  230. 230.

    Ruckus

    @clay:
    The FTFNYT did a really great article and published it as a magazine. I bought one and it is very well done. $6, the postage was more than the article/magazine. I’d suggest looking at their website to any one who wanted a copy. Don’t know if they are still selling it but it was well worth it, even if I had to give the FTFNYT money.

  231. 231.

    Jay

    @JR:

    Primary-care physicians include family doctors, pediatricians, internal-medicine specialists and obstetrician-gynecologists. Those in the U.S. earned an average after expenses in 2008 of $186,582, versus $125,000 in Canada, $159,000 in Britain and just $92,000 in Australia.

  232. 232.

    smintheus

    @MisterForkbeard: She had just moments earlier attacked some of her Democratic rivals’ plans for single-payer. She wants to have it both ways: attack rivals, than posture as the above-the-fray candidate.

  233. 233.

    Kay

    I’m not picking on him but Biden also said first that he has a public option then after Mayor Pete had his turn and Pete said he had Medicare For All Who Want It, Biden then said he had “Medicare choice”. He either changed his mind on the spot there or has just decided to say “public option” and “Medicare”, either one. Which is not a bad approach and might work! But he’s gonna get caught. The Bernie Supporter police will pull him over.

  236. 236.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: Anyone in business who thinks that private sector experience transfers to the Federal Government needs to take a look at the FAR.

    There are a bazillion rules about just about anything the government does, and usually for good reasons (to make sure things are done fairly, to make sure that people don’t abuse their authority, to make sure things are done in the national interest, etc.), sometimes for bad reasons (because Senator JimBob wanted to protect an obsolete industry in his state).

    And that’s just one set of acquisition regulations. There are many others.

    Government and the private sector are completely different animals. And that’s before one involves the politics…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  241. 241.

    Kay

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    There’s a lot of evidence. Maybe people who are good at business should just do that, instead of pretending to be senators. I’m thrilled there are Democratic business people. God knows there’s enough Republicans.

    I admit one of the (few) things I am enjoying about watching Trump is watching him FAIL at all the shit he insisted was so “easy” and that only “stupid people” couldn’t do. I really cannot bear that particular variety of government criticism- “it’s so easy! Just get it DONE”. It’s not easy which is why all these smart and hard working people have not done “it” yet. None of it’s easy.

  242. 242.

    Ruckus

    @Ladyraxterinok:
    Nothing has changed my view that Harris is the candidate for pres and Warren should stay in the senate and be majority leader. All her ideas are great, they are also legislative ideas. Yes there is need for input from the executive but congress writes and passes legislation. Harris is a leader, Warren is a legislator. A damn good one too.
    For VP I like Beto. I think that’s what he’s running for now and is why he’s opened his tone and even the swearing, I don’t think he believes that he’s going to be president this go round, and he has time. He’d make a great VP and be groomed for a run in 8 yrs.

  244. 244.

    MisterForkbeard

    @smintheus: I think she said she took their plans and made them better. She didn’t spend tons of time dunking on the rest of the candidates.

    Look, I could be wrong but you are weirdly and relentlessly negative against Harris. I don’t really get it, even if she’s not your cup of tea.

  246. 246.

    divF

    @Jay: Those numbers smell funny, I suspect inflated by ob-gyn (a surgical specialty, and therefore better paying) being included in the mix. Madame divF was a primary-care internist working in geriatrics and palliative care, she never saw anything like $180K / year – her typical year was closer to the Australian number.

    The big $$ to be trimmed are in (1) hospitals, and (2) surgical specialties, in that order. Also, NPs are not big earners – they make less than the MDs in a given primary care area.

  249. 249.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Ruckus: Not quite willing to go there. I think Smintheus has been around here for awhile and I never got that vibe from him/her. But this is some weird anti-Kamala feeling that seems like it goes beyond her performance.

    Maybe they’re just pissed because we like her. Dunno.

  251. 251.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @JR: They have 3xtremely high student loans. The European higher ed system doesn’t demand near the high student payment as US system does

  252. 252.

    smintheus

    @MisterForkbeard: I am negative about Harris, as well as several other candidates whom I consider to be bullshitters. Positioning yourself as the one person onstage who will attack Trump is, to put it kindly, disingenuous and self-serving. Presenting yourself as the one true paragon of party unity when you have taken your fair number of shots at rivals is just chutzpah. You know there is a candidate on that stage who has maintained her policy of not attacking fellow Democrats? She doesn’t preen over it, she just follows it as a principle; and her name is not Harris.

    There’s nothing mysterious about calling out politicians who practice the art of bullshit. Oh, and fwiw I remember commenters complaining back in 2007 that I was unduly negative about John Edwards. I considered him a bullshitter too.

  254. 254.

    smintheus

    @Ruckus: You poor dear Harris stans, somebody is criticizing the candidate you want to talk up. That’s practically unheard of in primary season.

Comments are closed.