Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Books are my comfort food!

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Bark louder, little dog.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

When we show up, we win.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Feeling 1972

Reader Interactions

148Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Actual statement in context
     

    “The truth of the matter is, there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug,” Biden said. “It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”
     

     
     

  2. 2.

    The Moar You Know

    Well, then.  
     
    Federalization is vital (still plenty of people in the federal pen for weed) and if he hasn’t figured out by now it’s the right thing to do, he never will.
     
    Guess we’re done, Uncle Joe.

  5. 5.

    MattF

    Gawd. ‘I know what I’ll do— I’ll repeat the oldest and dumbest anti-pot argument I can think of.’

  6. 6.

    Josie

    I want to like him, but he keeps finding ways to keep me from doing so.  This was such an unforced error.

  7. 7.

    PeakVT

    It’s no better in context.  Drug use is a complex issue and the “gateway drug” idea reduces it to the slippery slope argument, which is a logical fallacy.   Apart from that, alcohol is considered by some to be a “gateway drug” and we’ve gotten past the stupidity of banning that.  Why not with marijuana?
     
    Biden is trapped in 1992, not 1972, and thinks appealing to “centrists” by spouting conservative “ideas” is key to his electoral victory.  He’s wrong.

  8. 8.

    zhena gogolia

    We’re in a fight with fascism. I couldn’t give a flying f–k about legalization of marijuana.

  9. 9.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Baud: But I don’t want to think for myself, that’s hard. I want to be outraged by what pseudonymous randos on a blog tell me.
     

  10. 10.

    CarolDuhart2

    I clicked through on the Russian nym site.  (No, I did not take any surveys).  It’s spam and nothing but spam

  12. 12.

    StringOnAStick

    @zhena gogolia:  The youth gives one though; several fucks actually. I just read last night that 67% of the US public supports pot legalization, and when you break it down by party, even 58% of the R’s support it and a much higher percentage of D’s. This was a stupid thing for Joe to even bring up; it makes him look even older and more out of touch

  15. 15.

    Served

    The marijuana legalization debate is only half about legalizing marijuana. It is also about ending the war on drugs and the racial discrimination and mass incarceration at the heart of it. That he misses that aspect of it just shows his sell by date has passed. 1992 framing in a 2020 world.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MJS: 
      So… Your hooked on baby aspirin? That shit’s the worst. Soon you’ll be hanging out in abandoned buildings mainlining smack. Probably next week.

  22. 22.

    chris

    OMG you guys! It’s been legal here in Canada for over a year and it’s been awful! Sometimes the grocery store runs out of the giant bags of ketchup chips and the Oreo riots were… nonexistent. So are the legions of heroin addicts and meth monsters created by the “gateway drug.”
     
     

  25. 25.

    Baud

    I support marijuana legalization because it’s a getaway drug. Sometimes you want to getaway from it all.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    Another moderate running for president
    South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg said at a Latino forum in Los Angeles on Sunday that he’d be willing to send U.S. troops into Mexico to combat gang and drug violence.
    “There is a scenario where we could have security cooperation,” Buttigieg said.
    Even so, he added a caveat: “I’d only order American troops into conflict if American lives were on the line and if it was necessary to meet treaty obligations.”
    sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article237463004.html
     

  27. 27.

    Nicole

    So funny to think that in 1992, Bill Clinton felt it necessary to pretend he’d never been stoned, and now, less than 30 years later, being anti-legalizing marijuana is a negative for a Democratic candidate.  Who woulda thunk?
     
    All this and marriage equality, too!  In the midst of despair, I try to remind myself that things have improved from when I first started voting.  Not as far, or as fast as I’d like, but things are better.  Gives me the energy to keep fighting (and not voting for Biden, unless obligatory-of-course-if-he’s-the-eventual-nominee).

  28. 28.

    Aurona

    The man is near my age. I’ve been smoking pot for 55 years, off and on. Now, more on, because of CBD. But my word. I want to thank him for giving up the Youth and Old vote so readily to someone like Kamala Harris who will work to get those out of prison and into an industry that he has no concept of it doing good.

  30. 30.

    The Moar You Know

    It’s not just a youth issue, or a POC issue (although it is assuredly both those things).  At this point, especially on the West Coast, it’s becoming a major financial issue.  There’s close to a billion dollars alone in California RIGHT NOW that can’t be put in banks, can’t have federal taxes paid on it, poses title risks to real estate acquisition, and is posing a fairly grave personal safety threat to those who are holding it.  Those issues can only be resolved by federal legalization and changes to our money laundering laws.  Biden needs more time to study this?  FUCK THAT.  It’s been legal in my state in one form or another for 20 years, and the only issues that have ever arisen are from marijuana/marijuana products that are outside our regulatory system. 
     
    Legalize that shit now and let’s get this charade over with.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @StringOnAStick: 

    This was a stupid thing for Joe to even bring up  

      He didn’t bring it up. It was brought up.  

    Answering an audience question, Biden indicated he is not opposed to the drug entirely. He supports the use of medical marijuana and would decriminalize possession of the drug, he said, adding that he wants individual states to make decisions on recreational use.

     

  33. 33.

    p.a.

    @Gin & Tonic: 
     

    want to think for myself, that’s hard. I want to be outraged by what pseudonymous randos on a blog tell me.

    I also want to be told which pseudonymous randos I should listen to!

  34. 34.

    Betty Cracker

    @StringOnAStick: This is shaping up to be the most fear-based election ever. It’s understandable since Trump is such a disaster and an ongoing danger to democracy itself. But IMO, we too often ignore the possibility that a campaign designed not to piss off moderates could backfire. That’s a danger too! 

     

  35. 35.

    Scott P.

    He’s not wrong — the three greatest threats to liberty today are growing fascist movements, concentrations of capital and wealth, and the legalization of drug consumption. Moreover, the three are all linked together. I wish more on the left would understand that, but as we’ve already seen with the Russian ratfucking, it’s possible to co-opt the left to support policies that are detrimental to their ostensible goals.

  38. 38.

    PJ

    @Scott P.: Can you point me to a source for the assertion that the legalization of drugzz is one of the three greatest threats to our liberty?  Because it’s definitely non-obvious (particularly given the use of drug criminalization to curtail civil liberties generally and to oppress minorities specifically over the past 50 years).
     

  39. 39.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Thanks to those who addressed the criminal justice aspect of mj legalization. Then there’s the tax revenue issue. We love to tax our vices more than ourselves.

  40. 40.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @zhena gogolia: I am much more of this view that one that gets outraged at every comment that every candidate but my preferred one makes. 
     
    @oatler.: Biden has lifetime ratings in the 80s and 90s from just about every liberal and Democratic organization out there.  And he scores in the ‘teens from the conservative ones.  Republican in sheep’s clothing my ass.  Or, wait, I bet that’s why Obama picked him and his running mate.   If you have a case to make against him, make it.  Just don’t talk out of your ass.*
     
    *I’m supporting Harris.  I just think saying stupid shit about Democrats is stupid.
     

  41. 41.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:  

    Show me something that isn’t a gateway drug.

    Hmmm… Water? Honey? Butter?   I’ll tell you how pot IS a gateway drug… the gates of the Prison Doors!!!   Fuck Uncle Joe <s>Stalin</s> Biden!!! Whore for banks and insurance companies and payday lenders! Not a Democrat, a Corporatist.   We’re still working for Harris or Warren. …

     

  44. 44.

    J R in WV

    @J R in WV:    There is supposed to be a strike thru on Stalin, I used HTML in the visual tab, bad me! And didn’t get an edit try either!! Boo!  

     

    ETA:  HERE I get an edit window!

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @CarolDuhart2: Probably shouldn’t click those links. Those comments are definitely spam, snagged by the spam filter but not tagged yet to be omitted in “Recent Comments.” Has been reported for a fix.

    ETA: Though it’s rare, it is possible to get a virus just by visiting a malicious website. Don’t click the unknown nyms!

  49. 49.

    Anya

    @Baud: it’s really terrible we’re doing the same misleading headline and out of context quotation that we criticize the MSM. 
     

  51. 51.

    Princess

    @Josie: “I want to like him, but he keeps finding ways to keep me from doing so.  This was such an unforced error.”
     
    This.
     

  53. 53.

    germy

    We’re in a fight with fascism. I couldn’t give a flying f–k about legalization of marijuana.

    Marijuana is a gateway drug for cops to harass and ruin the lives of young black men.

    I remember about ten years ago, a few towns away from us, police kicked down the door of a black family and shot their small dog to death (because it started barking and running towards them) because they’d gotten a tip a young man there had sold ten dollars worth of pot.

    Meanwhile, in the same town, white college bros are pretty much open about how much pot they smoke. They have no worries.

  57. 57.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Baud: You’d think that after all we’ve been through in terms of warped, incomplete or false reporting since 2016 folks would remember it pays to actually check in to the context of anything any candidate says before commenting and sharing a click-bait headline.   

     

    Quite frankly, this is one of those issues I think Biden really could be educated/brought up to speed on rather quickly and would end up being totally on board for. My sense is he doesn’t know enough about it and gave a safe answer. 

     

     

  58. 58.

    J R in WV

    @Scott P.:
     

    the three greatest threats to liberty today are growing fascist movements, concentrations of capital and wealth, and the legalization of drug consumption. Moreover, the three are all linked together.

    I do not understand how legalization, that is, the end of prohibition of some drugs, can be linked to the rise of fascism or the concentration of wealth. Nor how it is a loss of personal freedom or liberty.
     
    In fact, not going to prison for smoking an herb, a weed that grows almost anywhere in the world, seems like an increase in liberty to me. Maybe I’m just stupid. Given my constant joint pain I would smoke it in a heartbeat if it were legal. I enjoy visiting Colorado because it IS legal there.
     
    But you do you, strange person.
     

  59. 59.

    joel hanes

    @Nicole:

    in 1992, Bill Clinton felt it necessary to pretend he’d never been stoned

    “I didn’t inhale” was a joke he was making.   WJC has asthma, always has had.  He can’t inhale smoke.   So he told the straight truth, and the feckless press never made the connection, and has never ceased to imply that he was lying.
     

  60. 60.

    Josie

    @Omnes Omnibus: 
     
    Of course they should answer questions.  That is how we figure out whom to support.  This answer, even in complete context, certainly helped me to make that decision.  I imagine will be true for many young people (and almost everyone is young to me) and people of  color.
     

  61. 61.

    satby

    @JPL: “necessary to meet treaty obligations” basically says without saying it “if the Mexican government asked for help”. So not really anything since it’s unlikely Mexico would ask for a cross border incursion that wasn’t related to a combined sweep of cartel territory designed to cut cartel criminals off from any escape routes into the US.
     

  62. 62.

    germy

    Maybe I’m naive, but I assume a President Joe Biden would order a study (there have been quite a few studies already, but okay, he orders another one).  The results would be that pot is not as dangerous as he thinks.  And then he goes ahead and gives a speech about how he will listen to the experts and sign a legalization bill.   Since there’s bipartisan support (Matt Gaetz is pro legalization, for example) President Biden could say rightly that he’s reaching across the aisle.  He might also point to the resulting criminal justice reform as an achievement of his administration.
     
    He seems like he’d listen to the experts (especially if it’s politically advantageous) unlike republicans who ignore climate scientists.
     
    Or am I being naive here?

  63. 63.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Betty Cracker: The fear-based decision making I often hear around Dem candidates worries me too. I hear a significant amount of gaming around who is most “electable” and therefore who this or that person will support. I don’t think we know much about electability of any of the major candidates yet. Not one primary vote will even be cast for another several months, the impeachment hearings are underway and we have no idea how things will play out.
     
    I understand completely the fear that drives such a thought process (do NOT want another four years of this misery), but fear is generally a really poor guide to decision making.
     

    •  
  64. 64.

    enplaned

    I’ve never touched the stuff, myself, but one of my proudest votes was for legalization in Colorado in 2012.
     
    For a Dem to take an anti- position today is a big unforced error. While I’ve never touched the stuff, I’ve been around plenty who have, and you don’t have to spend much time around it before you come to the conclusion that weed is far less dangerous than alcohol. And at this point, there’s a strong pro-legalization majority in the US, to say nothing about undoubted discrimination in how pot laws are applied. It’s a no-brainer to be on the pro-legalization side for a ton of reasons.
     
    Man, I would really love to see a new rule in the Democratic party – you get to run twice for president as a Democrat, and that’s it. It would be a way to reduce the number of tired old retreads like Biden.

  66. 66.

    satby

    @O. Felix Culpa: exactly! Let’s see what happens when primary voters start voting. I’m not deciding anything firm until after Super Tuesday, but basically all the top two tiers of candidates sans Wilmer would be fine with me even if they aren’t my first choice.  All would start turning the country around.
     

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    Joe probably wants to bring back smoking cars to the Acela. Speaking of, the administration is evidently backing off their proposed ban on flavored e-cigarettes in response to, what else, heavy lobbying from the tobacco industry. Who could have guessed?

  68. 68.

    J R in WV

    If I was going to ban a drug, it would be the hugely addictive and toxic drug, tobacco. Or put a big enough tax on it to support detox and addiction treatment for users, AND cover all, 100% of the health impacts (cancer, COPD, etc) of tobacco for everyone, including those harmed by second hand smoke.   And liquor wine and beer taxes should be dedicated to recovery treatment and costs of intoxication as well, with left overs going to the general budget fund. But banning some drugs is stupid and contributes more to addiction than it helps, this according to my doctor friends who actually treat addiction.   Really, I think you should be able to go to the drug store and buy drugs, government tested for purity, quality and strength. All of them. Any of them. I think needing a prescription for a medication I take regularly, like a statin, is crazy.   A prescription for pain meds can be filled for $7.00 — but to get that prescription costs $70 for the doctor’s visit. Hmmm.

     

    ETA:  At least ads for Vaping should have to include with the addiction announcement the fact that nicotine is toxic as well as the most addictive drug available on the market or the black-market.

     

  70. 70.

    Melusine

    You know what makes it a gateway drug? Having to buy it from shady illegal dealers who have an incentive to encourage you to try other drugs.
     
    When liquor went back to being readily available, folks mostly quit buying illegal moonshine.
     
    Not sure why the first part is italicized.

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    @enplaned:
     
    I, too, have never ever tried it.
    For me, I’m tired of seeing Black and Brown folks locked up for it at disproportional rates. Tired of seeing Black and Brown bodies feed the Prison Industrial Complex. 
     

  73. 73.

    Ruckus

    Have to ask, how’d prohibition work out?
    How’s oxy doing?
    None of this is cut and dried but no one seems to ask the question about why people choose to escape the life around them with things that can be very bad for them when abused, maybe the life is the problem and the drugs are the symptom….. Of course people with money never do drugs…….. Isn’t the oxy problem higher in the politically red areas of the country, which is also generally the poorer areas…… Is poverty the gateway to drugs or are drugs the gateway to poverty? 
    There are no easy answers but what we’ve been doing has worked so well, prohibition always does, maybe we should just incarcerate everyone and be done with it. 

  74. 74.

    trollhattan

    @J R in WV: 
    I’m assuming snark. If not then, well, WTF indeed.
     
    Federal action and lack of access to banking services loom large over state-legalized marijuana. And as we’re also finding, the Russian Mob.
     
    And in CA at least, illegal grows are as widespread as ever. Ultimately this is a federal issue, and might begin with moving the damn stuff off Schedule 1. Gateway to my ass, as it were.
     

  75. 75.

    Melusine

    Like the new site, but does anyone else hate comment threads that make you hit “load more” a gazillion times and then lose your place when you switch to another tab? Apologies if this has already been discussed to death, haven’t had much time to check in.

  76. 76.

    Cacti

    Bad position to take because:  1. It’s untrue, and 2. It doesn’t reflect the mood of a large majority of the country.
     
    Whether it does or doesn’t excite the feckless youth vote is small potatoes. 

  77. 77.

    J R in WV

    @enplaned:
     

    For a Dem to take an anti- position today is a big unforced error. While I’ve never touched the stuff, I’ve been around plenty who have, and you don’t have to spend much time around it before you come to the conclusion that weed is far less dangerous than alcohol.

    THIS!  We’ve lost several friends to alcohol addiction, including my father in law, who was a great guy sober. Drunk, not so much. People die young from alcohol. No one has ever died from over-dosing on pot. Most research finds that it isn’t particularly damaging to the lungs, unlike tobacco.
     

  78. 78.

    Betty Cracker

    @trollhattan: I think Kay nailed the reason behind this flip-flop weeks ago: it’s not only the tobacco lobby but also the fact that vaping is HUGE in red states and among the exact demographic Trump can’t afford to alienate. There are two or three vape shops in my little Trump-supporting town and much anger about the proposed ban. 

     

  79. 79.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @J R in WV: I will say that as my state considers legalization, I’m really glad it’s Advisory Task force has discussed how to encourage investment and promote growth of in-state businesses while preventing the industry being hijacked by “big marijuana” or straw-man companies set up to help shady foreign investors launder money (most particularly Russian “businessmen”)–often with an eye on influencing politicians and state legislatures on marijuana regulation.

    Oregon and California are recent examples where this is becoming a problem, and we now know Parnas, Fruman et.al were trying to influence politicians in Nevada. It would be a huge national security risk if we legalize at the Federal level without due diligence and implementing laws keeping the bad actors out. 

    Here’s one report

  81. 81.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @satby: Same here. I have a stronger preference for or aversion to some candidates, based somewhat on what I flatter myself to be rational grounds, but I have no idea at this point who would be our best and strongest candidate in the general election. And no one else does either.
     
    I also agree that we need to be mindful of fact-testing tweets and other “reporting” snippets that so easily gin up the outrage du jour. “Righteous” political anger in response to these things can be another powerful gateway drug too.
     

  83. 83.

    germy

    @NotMax:

    Billy Budd level.

    Alright then.  I suspected I was being naive, but I try to be optimistic.  Joe’s not my number one choice (nor second or third) but if he wins the nom I’ll vote for him.

     

  84. 84.

    Barbara

    The quote highlights that Biden is not exactly au courant in the way he talks about marijuana and really any drug use.  There are lots of legal drugs (e.g., opioids) that are clearly gateway drugs to things like heroin.   Nonetheless, there is a difference between removing marijuana from criminal statutes that have resulted in people’s lives being ruined as a result of selective enforcement of drug laws and affirmatively legalizing it.  Certainly, you can make possession of something less than a pound (let’s say) legal and not actionable and that will make society as embodied in federal law much less punitive (especially if everyone who has served or is serving a sentence for such offenses is essentially released and/or pardoned).  Having lifted what is the most unfair aspect of the criminalization of marijuana in the short run, then, we can argue at leisure about what other changes we want to make that would result in regularizing or routinizing the use and sale of marijuana.   

     

    Don’t count me in as someone who is itching to see THC products made as regular as alcohol, and, my position is, basically, that “legalizing” marijuana without taking steps to reducing the impact on the lives of people who have already been harmed by marijuana laws shouldn’t be a priority for anybody. 

     

     

  85. 85.

    Rand Careaga

     
     
    @Nicole: So funny to think that in 1992, Bill Clinton felt it necessary to pretend he’d never been stoned
     
    What he said was that he “didn’t inhale.” Anecdata: At some point in that year’s election cycle—possibly before Big Dog had nailed the nomination—a colleague related that his sister had run with Clinton’s crowd during his time at Oxford, and that he indeed didn’t inhale, smoke being uncongenial to him, but that he was certainly not averse to getting baked on baked goods.
     
    I’d be inclined not to trust as president anyone my age (late Truman era child) or younger who had never got stoned. It would suggest that they’d been raised in a wicker basket, or were possessed of a censorious disposition.
     

  87. 87.

    VeniceRiley

    The fed pols have been on this Biden postion, stuck, for quite a long time. They can’t even manage to get MJ off of Schedule 1 so that the studies they ostensibly want done can be started. Decades we’ve been stuck on this. Not to mention the crim justice debacle. The states have grown so tired of it, they’ve defied the feds and moved forward via ballot initiative. We don’t have a federal ballot initiative … mores the pity.

  90. 90.

    Barbara

    @VeniceRiley: The research rules were recently relaxed.  We will see whether that results in any movement forward.  The problem now is that the lack of research has created a vacuum where anyone can make any claims for the medical benefits of marijuana and there is nothing to disprove them.  Many people believe that marijuana could reduce chronic pain (or the perception of it), but emerging research has not been especially encouraging, but then again, that’s a single study and even that study recognized that it was limited because of the legal status of marijuana. 
     

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @Rand Careaga: 
     
    To be fair, I was raised in a wicker basket.

    Maybe I could start doing weekly fireside chats where I get high on various drugs while addressing important public policy questions. Will that get me the youth vote?

     

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker: 
    it’s not only the tobacco lobby but also the fact that vaping is HUGE in red states and among the exact demographic Trump can’t afford to alienate. There are two or three vape shops in my little Trump-supporting town and much anger about the proposed ban. 
     
     

    It amuses me to no end because the Trumps don’t actually know anything about their fan base.

    Melania pushed the vape ban and a bullying ban. They love vaping and they also love bullies.

  95. 95.

    Scout211

    “It’s a debate” is just like the hedging answers to climate change, gay marriage, etc.  It is (in my mind) translated, “I really don’t want to tell you what I truly think.”  It’s okay to upset the supporters but not okay to upset the few people left out there who don’t support legalization?  It reminds me of the first Obama/Biden campaign and their refusal to support gay marriage.  Sigh.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @VeniceRiley: 

    They can’t even manage to get MJ off of Schedule 1 so that the studies they ostensibly want done can be started.

    Hillary proposed to do that. But you know, oh well….
     
     
     

  97. 97.

    Baud

    @Scout211: 
     

    It reminds me of the first Obama/Biden campaign and their refusal to support gay marriage.  Sigh.

    You know, to that kind of worked out for us.
     
     

  99. 99.

    geg6

    @The Moar You Know: 
    Ain’t just “minorities” who smoke. It’s more like “most voters under sixty”
     
    Ahem.  I’ll have you know I am turning 61 on Sunday.  Other than my John (72), my oldest sister (71) and my next oldest sister’s husband (62), every single person in my immediate family partakes in one way or another.  And I’m the second youngest sibling out of six.  This includes most of my friends, too.  I hate to break it to you and to Uncle Joe, but the 50-65 year old demographic is filled with potheads.
     

  100. 100.

    Cathie from Canada

    The opposition to legalization in Canada came from the Hell’s Angels and the police, both of whom saw legalization as a threat to their “way of life” so to speak.  
    After a lot of sturm and dang, legalization here was implemented a year ago, and there have been no problems — the New Yorker described our legalization as “super-boring”  
    I was very disappointed to read about Joe’s comments — what century does he think he is living in?  

  101. 101.

    Scout211

    @Baud:  yes, it did.  And I assume that is Biden’s long-term thinking by going on record on the issue.  Get elected, then revisit the issue during his term.  Maybe?  
     

  102. 102.

    Bruce K

    @Rand Careaga: Hey, I’m Gen-X and I never got stoned, because frankly I was always terrified of what it would do to my mind (I’m closing in on 50 and I still don’t want to roll those dice). Then again, I also can’t stand raw tomatoes, but I’m not going to make it illegal for you to have a BLT (or equivalent sandwich with tomatoes).
     

  103. 103.

    Kay

    I think it should be legalized but I also think the enthusiasts spend too much time promoting and denying ANY possible downside. 
    I just fundamentally don’t buy that there’s no downside at all to daily use of it. I would be more comfortable if we just treated it like the legal intoxicants and admitted using a lot of them probably impacts your life and perhaps not 100% positively. 
    Don’t sell it so hard. People are allowed to look at studies or whatever. They study legal drugs out the wazoo- why would pot be different?  Nicotine is legal, but people don’t run around insisting it’s magical. 

  104. 104.

    gvg

    Biden has to be extremely sheltered to think MJ is a gateway drug. Anyone who has lived a long time and knows has met many people should know it just isn’t as serious as the old hype.  He should already know before a run for president that this is more to do with jailing minorities and it needs to be removed from criminal misjustice. This is not a new surprise issue.  I prefer prepared candidates.
     

  105. 105.

    artem1s

    this is what comes of trying to appease the old white vote – in this case, old white police.  Biden’s appeal to the AA voter is going to plummet after this.  At this point I’m beginning to wonder about his mental state and whether he is so in decline he can only repeat familiar, simple talking points. Sound like anyone we know?  If this is the case, it means the campaign staff is in charge and clearly only concerned with raising money for themselves.  some family retainer should be tasked with taking him aside and talking him out of this boondoggle. 
    The best case scenario is he wanted to stay in the race only as long as it took the whistleblower story to come out and now he’s blowing his campaign on purpose – crazy, but I’m beginning to hope this isn’t wishful thinking. 
    Please go gently into that good night Joe.

  107. 107.

    sherparick

    @Baud: The thing is that after 100 years of marijuana prohibition the one thing we do know that it is a “gateway” drug to prison, particularly if you are in a minority group that finds itself the target of police suspicion.  Also, making it illegal means that you have to go to the black market to buy it, and surprise, there you will find other drugs on the black market that you might be encouraged to buy by your dealer (during Prohibition, alcohol was the gateway drug of choice).   He is just repeating memes in his head because he has not given it an ounce of thought since the Reagan Administration.
     

  109. 109.

    gvg

    @Kay: I think the “vape ban” was going to only be flavored vape ban, which is to my mind entirely different and good. Flavored cigarettes were banned a long time ago to reduce children being lured to start young and it did help.  This flavors ban was for the same reason and I think it should have been a no brainer. I also think most of the same rules should apply to vaping as cigarettes.  They are really almost the same thing and a lot of the popularity is finding a way around cigarette laws.
     

  110. 110.

    Barbara

    @gvg:  I prefer prepared candidates too, and it seems to me that Biden as well as commenters are focused more on what happens to marijuana prospectively than redeeming the lives of those who have been convicted and incarcerated.  I really don’t give an FF about whether your marijuana habit will become legal and convenient for you.  I very much give an FF about people who are carrying around a felony drug conviction forever because of marijuana laws. It’s easy to say “oh yeah, they were really a way of keeping down black people,” but I see very little ownership of what needs to happen to remediate the unfairness that has already happened.  California has implemented some relief and that should be a national model.  I am immune to protestations of the sort that making marijuana legal will raise tax revenue.  
     

  111. 111.

    Melusine

    @Ruckus: THIS.
     
    Anything, any substance or actvity, hell, even thought processes, can becone “addictive” to someone. I can see banning really destructive shit, like meth, but a lot of currently illegal drugs aren’t in that category. Give people options for safer, legal experimentation and most will be less likely to see the need for the riskier options, and less likely to come into contact with them if there are legal dispensaries. The folks who still opt for the dangerous shit – well, it’s not the drugs themselves that are the problem, it’s economic and psychological circumstanes, and prison just exacetbates them.
     
    I’ve never had to wrestle car keys from a stoner. If beer is legal, pot should definitely be.
     

  112. 112.

    japa21

    This is a fascinating thread. Biden’s full comment is totally different from what the post states. His actual comment and the context in which it was given have been provided a couple times and yet several people are still reacting as if the original post was totally, completely, irrevocably correct. One can still disagree with the complete quote (I do) but at least recognize it wasn’t the quote originally attributed to him.

    As I was reading the comments, I really had wished there was a like button as several deserved it.

    The reality is, as I think OO pointed out, there is a tendency to jump on just about any comment from a candidate other than one’s preferred candidate and to find excuses for any comment from one’s preferred candidate.

    I have a hunch this is going to get much worse as time goes on.

    I think it is incumbent on all of us, and especially the FPers, to make sure that quotes are given with full context provided and the quote given as completely as possible.

    That won’t necessarily eliminate accusations of bad faith, but it may reduce them.

  113. 113.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Melusine:
    Not sure what you’re referring to, because this site doesn’t do the “load more” thing and (in general) doesn’t lose your place when you jump between tabs. Do you have a specific example?
     

  114. 114.

    JaneE

    @Baud: The La Guardia report was written before I was born.  It is hard to collect evidence when research is actively discouraged, if not suppressed.  FWIW, tobacco was almost always a gateway drug to marijuana, at least when that was studied several decades ago.  Joe should address himself to the legal drugs that we already know about – tobacco and alcohol being two that already cause serious harm.  I am not saying you should smoke pot, but if a responsible adult can decide to smoke tobacco and drink alcohol, they should be able to make a responsible decision about pot as well. 
     

  115. 115.

    rp

    Can someone explain how the context improves Biden’s quote? I don’t think he has to come out with a full throated endorsement of legalization, but using the phrase “gateway drug” in any context other than “the gateway drug argument is idiotic” is a huge mistake.

  117. 117.

    sherparick

    @geg6: Most voters under 70 would be correct.  I know, those who are still alive are my friends (the Summer of Love was 1967 when smoking grass exploded).  Now most stopped smoking it some time in their late 20s and 30s, for a variety of social and professional reasons, but that of course shows that compared to alcohol and opiates it is a comparatively non-addictive drug.  White kids from “good families,” who can hire expensive lawyers, generally get a warning or a “clean record” if they stay out of trouble for six months.  Black and Hispanic kids are not so lucky in their interactions with the police.   And going to jail, with a felony conviction, has a lot of bad long term consequences for the individual and society.  
     

  119. 119.

    geg6

    @Kay: 
     
    I’ve been using it every single day of my life (with a few exceptions) since I was 15.  Not in large quantities (well, we won’t talk about college and pretty much my entire 20s), but as a cheaper and more effective anti-anxiety and antidepressant than any doctor ever prescribed for me.  In that time, I have had two very long term and mostly successful relationships, earned both a bachelor and master’s degree, worked in several roles at two post-secondary institutions and at the one I will retire from (a major research university) in an administrative capacity for over 20 years.  I have no arrests, no civil proceedings against me and my debt is manageable and paid up.  I might cough from it sometimes, but I have yet to see any downside to it.
     

  120. 120.

    Ruckus

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    but fear is generally a really poor guide to decision making.
    Yes it is.
    And isn’t this why it is a conservative political ideal, instill fear, promote fear, gain power?
     

  121. 121.

    Barbara

    @rp: I think use of the term gateway is also a mistake because it misses the most important part about the concept of a “gateway,” and that is, a person’s predisposition for whatever reason to use drugs at all including new and different drugs.  People who use marijuana are more likely to use other drugs — yeah, because some people will try just about any drugs.  And other people don’t, quite content to stay with the one that hits their sweet spot. I could have told Joe Biden that when I was in high school just by observing my siblings, friends and classmates. 
     

  122. 122.

    Kelly

    Home growing 63 year old Oregon weed smoker here. People certainly can consume way too much THC product to the point it’s a problem in their lives. I know a few of them.

  124. 124.

    cain

    @zhena gogolia: 

    “We’re in a fight with fascism. I couldn’t give a flying f–k about legalization of marijuana.”

     
    (I apparently can’t figure out how blockquote works even though I tested it) Weird.)
     
    The drug wars was all about incarcerating black people and people of color. There are people languishing in jail for non-violent crimes. Legalization will not only not make this a tool by right wingers to incarcerate black folks, but also lead to them getting out. Combine that with making sure they get to vote, will give us a lot more voters.

  125. 125.

    Kelly

    @Barbara:

    I think use of the term gateway is also a mistake because it misses the most important part about the concept of a “gateway,” and that is, a person’s predisposition for whatever reason to use drugs at all including new and different drugs. 

    I agree. This observation matches my non scientific sample.
     

  126. 126.

    cmorenc

    @Josie:

    I want to like him, but he keeps finding ways to keep me from doing so.  This was such an unforced error.

     
    If anything winds up undoing the D nominee in 2020, it will be unforced errors like on mj legalization or going overboard with medical insurance reform plans that give too much opportunity for opponents to fear-monger against and have little chance of actual passage, however good these proposals might be in principle.  We’re not dealing with principled opposition.
     

  128. 128.

    cain

    @The Moar You Know: 
    This is a great point. Let me expand on that a bit more. This industry can replace industries like lumber in Oregon and Washington. Oregon is prime land for pot that we can sell to both mexico and canada. (until of course, big Pharma takes over)
    What should be important is making sure that during its implementation that it continues to fund small businesses instead of a mass take over by big business. I’m worried that govt will try to make growing your own pot illegal in order to create scarcity for money’d interests.
    So yes, there is money to be made!
    Also Joe can fuck off a out gateway drugs, when a legal one – opiods are sweeping small town America and literally creating a crises, while marijuana has done nothing. Moron.
     

  129. 129.

    Kelly

    @cmorenc:
    give too much opportunity for opponents to fear-monger 

    I vacillate between this and hell they’re gonna monger. Mostly figure they’ll make stuff up and it’ll work for them anyway. I can’t think of how we run on the issues we care about without opening up a fear mongering opportunity.
     
     

  130. 130.

    Barbara

    @Kelly: Right, the statement “everyone I know who uses heroin used to use marijuana” is different from “everyone who uses marijuana goes on to use heroin.”  The term “gateway” implies that the latter is a true statement, that initial use of marijuana is the cause subsequent experimentation with other drugs and that is simply not true, not in the way, say, that use of prescription opioids is tightly linked to subsequent use of heroin (for accessibility and financial reasons).   
     
    When I was in high school I decided that one of my siblings had an “experimentation” mindset, because she would use nearly any drug.  Whereas, my other siblings would not budge beyond marijuana.  I was the other kind of outlier.  I tried it and hated it.  
     

  131. 131.

    joel hanes

    @trollhattan:   

     

    And in CA at least, illegal grows are as widespread as ever. 

     

    The state miscalculated badly, and set the tax and regulatory burdens too high, so legal pot is more expensive and usually more hassle than the pre-existing black market channels.  

     

     

  132. 132.

    cain

    @Ken: Over 99.9% of drug addicts have previously used water.

    Sir, have you not heard about the evils of Dihydrogen Oxide? Wake up sheeple! It’s everywhere!!!
     

    Fuck me, give me five minutes with Trump so I can tell him about it.

  133. 133.

    Barbara

    @joel hanes: I categorically oppose making marijuana legal just to raise tax revenue.  Make it legal, period, if that’s the decision.  No one should be going to jail just for cultivating marijuana.  But really, California has a problem with “rogue” cultivation because they rely on criminal actions for a lot of the things they need, like stealing electricity and water. 
     

  135. 135.

    Kelly

    @cain: Weed will not replace lumber or any other industry. It’s easy to grow in lots of places. Oregon has a massive legal weed over supply. Growers are going bust. If it’s fully legal it’ll sell for the price of alfalfa. Which I know a few people bought thinking it was weed back in my college days.
     

  137. 137.

    Kay

    @gvg: 
     
    I don’t really know what I think about the flavored vape ban. I was just amused because the second they said it I knew 1. it is their base and 2. they will be mad. They don’t really know their base, which is understandable, the only fucking thing they have in common with them is mean-spirited pettiness. 
     
    The adults here like the candy flavors, BTW, as much as kids do. My son and his high school friends make fun of adults a lot, which I enjoy because I am a 7th grader, although sometimes I’m the target. They have a whole routine on vaping. This is a 70% Trump county. It’s their parents. 
     

  138. 138.

    Kelly

    @joel hanes: 
     

    The state miscalculated badly, and set the tax and regulatory burdens too high, so legal pot is more expensive and usually more hassle than the pre-existing black market channels.  

    Oregon went the other way and grew several years worth of legal weed the first year. Prices cratered.

  139. 139.

    cain

    @Kelly:  That’s because you are looking at what the product is today. If it gets removed as a schedule A drug, it means that there will be a lot of experimentation in strains. Entities like monsanto will create all new strains with new effects, and also create the scarcity needed to charge high prices. New pain killer products as well. It will generate a lot of demand. So I think street marijuana might be cheap as long as people are allowed to grow it. But I think things will change quickly once it becomes federalized.  

     

  140. 140.

    Kelly

    @cain: There will be new products developed. I grow my own weed. It’s really easy to grow. Easier than heirloom tomatoes. That’ll keep the prices low. Biggest problem here in the western Cascade foothills is fall mildew. Irrigated grows in dry climates would be trouble free.
     

  142. 142.

    jimmiraybob

    Dear Joe,   Beer is the gateway drug that I was introduced to at around 14 yoa.  Just sayin’   Still usin’ it.  Now I’m up to scotch.   Yours, JRB

     

    PS Never had a dude smoking pot try to kick my ass.

     

  143. 143.

    Rand Careaga

    I probably smoked more pot during my freshman year in college than I had during the previous three years (we used to smoke a lot of it in the dorm to cover up the reek of incense), but thereafter with decreasing frequency. By my mid-twenties I had largely given it up, because it tended to make me feel stupid and depressed, whereas alcohol made me feel stupid and happy, which was more fun.
     
    Years later, my longtime employer, which had pretty much climbed into bed with Homeland Security, extended their random drug testing regimen to pretty much everyone on the payroll, and since I relied on those fortnightly increments of salary to keep the rain off me, this was a disincentive to indulge. Actually, whatever algorithms they were employing for the randomization spared me until three years before I retired. “What,” I asked them sourly, “you’re drug-testing the art director? Seriously?”

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    @PeakVT: 
     

    It’s no better in context. Drug use is a complex issue and the “gateway drug” idea reduces it to the slippery slope argument, which is a logical fallacy.

    He might as well claim that light beer is a gateway drink to drinking a bottle of whiskey a day. Does that happen to some people? Possibly. Does it happen to everyone? Hell no.

    There are people who drink beer who don’t touch liquor for whatever reason. There are people who don’t like even dark beers.

    The argument is ridiculous on its face and would be funny if the Reefer Madness mentality wasn’t still taken seriously by some.

  145. 145.

    cain

    @Kelly: 
    Really? I think here I thought it required all sorts of lights and what not. I don’t have any need to grow cannabis as I prefer to edibles than smoking it and I don’t have it very often like a couple times a year when I feel like experimenting with what is out there. In general cannabis doesn’t do anything for me. I’m still trying to figure out what teh big deal is. It annoys me so much that all this hoopla gets people jailed.
     

  146. 146.

    cwmoss

    @Baud: Grandpa Joe’s use of the term “gateway drug” gives away the game. He’s conceded the form of the question to the right wing “law & order” set, and he remains in a time warp from the 80s.

  147. 147.

    Melusine

    @Steeplejack (phone): When I was viewing it earlier today on my phone in Firefox, there was a Load Comments button that I had to keep hitting. Now it’s gone. Glad it was just a site/browser glitch! I’ve learned and laughed so much from the Jackal commentariat over the years. Would hate to miss out on whole blocks of witty, vicious, or just plain sensible observations.

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