My apologies to the nation. Until recently, I had been a proud veteran. I realize now that since I have no proof of my service other than my DD-214 and several plaques and ribbons, which clearly does not protect me from charges of desertion.
Until I can find the appropriate paperwork from my ten years of service, I hereby declare myself a deserter and AWOL. Also, I apologize to the Army and the WV National Guard, who must have been accomplices in my deception- how else can I describe their allowing me to leave the services without charging me?
At any rate, I apologize for failing the nation, as I clearly am a deserter.
*** Update ***
Since the new myth is that IRS records will somehow prove where Bush was or wasn’t, here is an exercise for the readers. IN 1997, my W2 from the National Guard that I filed with my 1040 stated I earned roughly $3500.00 gross pay. With that handy, useful, and pertinent information, someone please tell me:
What months I reported for drill in FY 1997.
Which months I missed (I missed 6 and made them up at a later date).
Where I made up those drills.
What I did to make up those drills.
Why did the National Guard, with a clear absence of documentation today, pronounce that I had served a ‘good year.’ (Again, know-nothings, I don’t expect you to know what a ‘good year’ is.)
Until then, I remain your forlorn self-admitted deserter.
Steve Malynn
And, by the way, good luck on getting bank/IRS/Military Pay records that are over 30 years old.
JKC
John-
YOU haven’t pranced about in a flight suit on an aircraft carrier.
YOU haven’t wrapped yourself in the flag and thrust a cross at everyone who disagrees with you.
No-one, to my knowledge, has ever said that “they can’t recall COLE ever showing up for duty.”
Finally, YOU aren’t the President of the United States. (Although one could easily argue you’d do a better job than the one we’ve got.) To paraphrase Kenneth Starr, if there’s nothing to hide, why not give us everything we’ve asked for?
John Cole
THE DD FORM 214 IS ALL YOU NEED, and with the records woes that the Guard and Reserve have always had makes it so that finding the paperwork you want puts the President in the impossible position of proving a ngeative.
IF they tried to at least be intellectually honest about this it would be one thing. Like, say, going to half the people who also served in his unit, and ask them for all their paperwork from 1965-1975. DO a comparison. for those who have missing records or incomplete records but an Honorable Discharge, call them deserters in the national press, too.
Dana
To paraphrase Kenneth Starr, if there’s nothing to hide, why not give us everything we’ve asked for?
Funny, that defense doesn’t work for the Patriot Act.
JKC
Dana-
Forgot the sarcasm tags.
Look, all: I DON’T KNOW if Bush served honorably in the Guard or not. Frankly, I’d like to believe the man did. I also think I can honestly say that it would’nt change my opinion of him one way or another. The sixties were strange times, and LOTS of people tried to weasel out of military duty with varying degrees of success. Given the political times, I’d be willing to proclaim a blanket amnesty for politicians of either party.
But politics ain’t always fair, and Bush may not be able to make this go away by ignoring the issue. He’d be better off, IMHO, if he got hold of as much information as possible and released it all.
OTHO, I’m not planning on voting for the guy, so my advice may be suspect. Whatever…
mark
Which is worse to the left – Bush serving in the National Guard or Kerry coming back from Vietnam calling his fellow soldiers war criminals?
Steve Malynn
JKC, check out todays Wall Street Journal, page B-1, “Veterans say military keeps poor health records on troops”. It details missing health records and immunization records at levels between 14% and 68% of returning Afganistan vetrans (depending on the unit). That’s last year’s records, not from 30 years ago.
There’s a reason 9 of 10 veterans are not concerned about the gap in the records of attendance at drills for the precise period Bush lived in Alabama, away from his home unit in Texas — we’ve all experienced lost records, delayed records, awards granted but records lost, military specialties learned/earned but lost in the records, schools attended but rosters lost.
The best indicator of whether a Reserve/Guard Unit thought someone was skipping out on their duty is if there was disciplinary action taken. If none was taken, the unit was satisfied, and the serviceman gets an Honorable Discharge. It’s not rocket science.
Mike
And when you spend $880,000 of taxpayer funds to keep the USS Lincoln circling one more day — so the California coastline doesn’t show up in your flight-suited photo op — your missing records are really going to embarrass you!
John Cole
Wow Mike-
You are just one regurgitated lie after another:
“Democrats have focused on the way Bush chose to arrive on the carrier on Thursday. A Navy jet carrying Bush made a tailhook landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln — the first such landing for a sitting president. They’ve called on the White House to provide an analysis of how much the landing cost, and they want to compare it with what a helicopter landing would have cost.
Several senior White House officials told CNN there was a minimal difference between the cost of Navy jet landing or one with a Marine or Navy helicopter.
And at the Pentagon, several Navy officials said there was no delay or cost overrun due to Bush’s trip to the carrier. The costs were roughly equal — about $5,000 an hour, Navy officials said.
The White House officials said the Navy recommended the jet as the safest mode of travel to the aircraft carrier because it offered the option to eject if the aircraft missed the deck on its approach for landing.
These officials, however, said the administration will not release documents or offer specific details of the cost analysis now that Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman of California is seeking a General Accounting Office investigation of the costs.
In an interview with CNN, Waxman said Bush used the troops as a “political prop for his re-election campaign” and called on the Bush campaign to reimburse taxpayers for the costs.
In his address to the nation, Bush thanked the armed services and declared “victory” in what he called the battle of Iraq. (Full story)
Costs and other details of transporting the president are routinely kept private by the White House, the administration officials said.
During the Clinton administration, congressional Republicans frequently complained about the costs of presidential travel, and the GAO, in response to inquiries, provided rough estimates. A Clinton trip to Africa, for example, was one criticized by Republicans and analyzed by the GAO, the investigative arm of Congress.
‘Bring it on’
“Bring it on,” said one senior official said of the Democratic criticism. “If they think there is something to be gained by investigating and criticizing the president for going out to welcome the troops home, they are even more ridiculous than I thought.”
This official and another said they assumed the GAO might at some point give Waxman a cost estimate, but they said the White House would not release its materials on the issue. “We never do,” one said.
The second said, “Those who accused us of a political stunt are engaging in a political stunt. Fine by me. Let’s talk every day about the president wanting to get aboard that carrier to welcome those sailors and pilots home after 10 months fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Democrats have said, among other things, that Bush kept the carrier at sea an extra day so he could go aboard and deliver a prime-time television address.
But both the White House and the Navy said that while the carrier was closing in on San Diego, California ahead of schedule and could have made it to dock on May 1, it would not have done so even if Bush had not been coming aboard because port security and other logistical arrangements, as well as family travel arrangements, all had been pegged to the announced May 2 arrival. ”
From http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/07/bush.lincoln/
Of course, from a group of people so willfully and admittedly ignorant of the military, I am not surprised you think docking a carrier group is just like parking a Yugo at the local Target.
Get a grip, junior spinmeister.
Jon H
Steve Malynn writes: “The best indicator of whether a Reserve/Guard Unit thought someone was skipping out on their duty is if there was disciplinary action taken. If none was taken, the unit was satisfied, and the serviceman gets an Honorable Discharge.”
Or if the serviceman’s political connections demand it.
It’s not rocket science.
Frankly, if Bush failed to show up for most of a year, it wouldn’t exactly be contrary to his reputation as a slacker. There’s nothing in Bush’s character or history to suggest he would take his obligation seriously.
JKC
This story was near the top of the NBC Nightly News tonight. I don’t know if Bush served honorably or not. I’d like to think he did, but I don’t know.
Having said that, I think it’s safe to say that ignoring this issue won’t make it go away now. Bush has to address this issue.
I actually feel a bit sorry for him. I can well believe that records were lost: I see that sort of thing all the time in hospitals. A chart that’s been “archived” might just as well be on Mars.
Too bad Bush didn’t meet this head-on in 2000. It wouldn’t be looking to bite him where he sits down now if he had.
Sigivald
JKC: You don’t recall hearing that, er, everyone flying a military jet wears a flight suit, right?
And why is it “prancing”?
Jon: What do you actually know about Bush’s character? The accounts of people who… er… actually work with him seem to indicate he takes obligations quite seriously.
Mike: Not only has John debunked you, but you might wish to remember that most Americans don’t share your views on the President, if the polls are to be believed. Perhaps a more … nuanced, and documentable-fact-based approach will convince them better than regurgitated talking-points? If, that is, you’re serious about actually trying to win the upcoming election.
Steverino
JonH, you make a lot of accusations without any facts.
FACT: Bush completed more than his required hours in the National Guard.
That’s hardly indicative of a slacker. How many Harvard Business School MBAs do YOU have?
Jon H
Steverino writes: “FACT: Bush completed more than his required hours in the National Guard.”
He signed up for six years. He served not more than 5 years 4 months.
I don’t really care if he has an honorable discharge. That can be the result of pressure – for example, by Bush’s father, thanks to his political connections and connections among the wealthy oil barons of Texas. That’s a lot of political contributions at stake.
For the typical soldier, an honorable discharge is meaningful. Bush isn’t typical. Most people don’t have a father with deep connections at Pennzoil, Baker Botts, Dresser, investment banks, and local and federal political organizations.
So I’m not willing to take Bush’s discharge at face value.
“That’s hardly indicative of a slacker. How many Harvard Business School MBAs do YOU have?”
None, but then, I didn’t have a rich daddy to get me into Yale and Harvard despite crappy grades and middling SAT scores. Nor could I rely on the family fortune and influence to keep me in school despite my slacking. Nor could I rely on the family fortune to pay the bills.
We know that Bush was an irresponsible boozer until he hit 40. Kind of late to reach maturity, isn’t it?
Corey
“He signed up for six years. He served not more than 5 years 4 months.”
Sorry JonH, but I gotta bust ya on this one. So he signed up for six years and served not more than 5 years. You know what that means? He completed all his required points BEFORE his contract was up. You just showed (as all AWOL-ers contimue to show) their total ignorance of the Guard and Reserves, and of the entire military in general, yet you continue to argue as if you’ve lived the military life. It’s obvious you haven’t.
“I don’t really care if he has an honorable discharge. That can be the result of pressure – for example, by Bush’s father, thanks to his political connections and connections among the wealthy oil barons of Texas. That’s a lot of political contributions at stake.”
I hate to break it to you, but the connection of the Bush family to oil barons doesn’t have one SINGLE thing to do with TANG. Quit looking for conspiracies where they don’t exist.
Corey
“None, but then, I didn’t have a rich daddy to get me into Yale and Harvard despite crappy grades and middling SAT scores. Nor could I rely on the family fortune and influence to keep me in school despite my slacking. Nor could I rely on the family fortune to pay the bills.”
So basically, you’re saying that Yale Degrees and Harvard MBAs are for sale. Hmmmm, I guess that’s why they’re so prestigious huh?
“We know that Bush was an irresponsible boozer until he hit 40. Kind of late to reach maturity, isn’t it?”
At least he hit maturity; we’re still waiting for Clinton to hit his.
Jon H
Corey writes: “So basically, you’re saying that Yale Degrees and Harvard MBAs are for sale. Hmmmm, I guess that’s why they’re so prestigious huh?”
Such schools basically admit it. It’s a big reason why they lower their standards for children of alumni. The justification is that by doing so, they encourage alumni to make large donations.
If they turn down a wealthy alum’s kid, or kick the kid out for poor performance, they risk losing a lot of money.
Mike
What “lie?” The flight-suited photo op cost $880,000. Bush can’t find his military records. Looks like he’s just taking the sword he lives by.
I did 4 years in the air force. I swore to protect the same constitution you did. I don’t find your condescension particularly intimidating.
Mike
Oh yeah, here’s a news article from Dallas News dated one day after your 07 May 03 CNN story giving the cost of one carrier-day costing $800,000:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/politics/national/stories/050803dnnatcosts.aa761.html
Again, when the president gets busted for not finding his military records, he’s just taking the sword he lives by — it looks good on him.
Steverino
Jon H, before you dig yourself into a deeper hole, please read this article:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3378
It’s written by a man who was a year behind Bush at Harvard Business School, and later a teacher there.
Here’s an excerpt:
“This is patently incorrect. Having attended Harvard Business School at the same time as the President, graduating from the two-year program a year after he did, and then serving on its faculty after a year
Andrew J. Lazarus
I think the issue is Pres. Bush HASN’T released his DD214. I saw on another web site that there’s some reference code on it that can tell you an evaluation of the veteran. Is this so? (American Express card numbers, BTW, aren’t random; they reflect your credit status.)
Andrew J. Lazarus
John, do you have some explanation why they turned the carrier around so the cameras showed Bush landing with the sea in the background instead of the San Diego skyline? I mean, I have a guess. And a similar guess why his Mission Accomplished press conference was scheduled at just the moment that the light shone best.
Jon H
Steverino writes: “Please, don’t just make up facts. From the accounts of people who actually went to Business School with him, Bush was a pretty good student. He did NOT get by on his family’s pull.”
a) he certainly got in due to his family’s pull. His college performance wasn’t terribly good.
b) His piss-poor performance in his business career doesn’t speak well of his Harvard education. It’s more characteristic of someone who skated through with C’s.
Frankly, I’m not convinced by *one* anecdote by someone who’d probably not be in any rush to concede that some people skate through HBS.
Steve Malynn
Andy L, tompaine.com did what anyone who wants a copy of Bush’s records can do, fill out a form SF-180 and wait for the National Archives to copy whatever it has. Tompaine.com noted the receipt of over 200 pages and began to spin a rediculuous conspiracy, BUSH AWOL, that anyone who had experience with military records would see as garbage just by reading the six pages he linked.
The records are public, they show service. End of Story.
Corey
“I saw on another web site that there’s some reference code on it that can tell you an evaluation of the veteran. Is this so?”
Inasfar as discharge status goes (Honorable, Admin, Medical, or whatever), the DD214 will come out and say it, no code needed. As far as “Eval” is concerned…no eval info is included.
Corey
“John, do you have some explanation why they turned the carrier around so the cameras showed Bush landing with the sea in the background instead of the San Diego skyline?”
If I can answer for John (sorry john, I have about four cups of coffee pulsing through me this morning, so it’s tough to hold back) But my best military aviation guess for this (Coming from an AF guy, not a Navy guy, mind you) most likely had to do with the prevailing winds at the time. I had a navy buddy (once stationed on the “Connie”) tell me that carriers, as they have only one runway for landing, will have to change attitude in order to allow planes to land; as opposed to an airfield which will have several runways at different attitudes (or is it “azimuths?”) Anyway, I believe that is why the carrier was facing the way it was.
Mike
Ha Ha! Bush spends hundreds of billions of dollars — to take us where we would have been if UN inspections were allowed to continue — and now his missing military records have come to bite him on the ass!
Just look at y’all dumping huge volumes of text just to defend the $800,000 he spent for his idiotic flight-suit photo op almost a year ago! Maybe someone should start a weblog with the tagline, “Others report, I get ridden.”
Slartibartfast
Lemme see if I’ve got this straight, Mike. Your claim is that Bush cause this carrier to stay at sea a day past its scheduled arrival date, and that cost the taxpayers $800k. Have I got that right?
Mike
I’m saying the president can’t prove he completed his service, and the press and the democrats are feeding him the sword he lives by. It looks good on him.
Contrasting his inability to prove he didn’t just skip out of the same service to defend America John is so proud of — and holding the USS LINCOLN off the coast of California so he could be photographed in a flight suit — again, the president is just getting fed the same sword he wants to take credit for living by.
At least Bill Clinton had the decency not to take credit for military service he didn’t perform.
John Cole
Mike- The president can prove his service- with the DD Form 214 giving him an honorable dishcarge…
Just because you dont accept that does not mean he can not prove it.
Mike
Remember this news story, how Alabama veterans posted a reward in the last election for any proof the president showed up for his Alabama guard duty? It doesn’t look like the president’s 214 was good enough for them either:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001205003400/http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/Oct2000/14-e414023b.html
It’s very sad and pathetic how George W Bush led us into invading Iraq, accruing record-breaking deficits, just to bring us where we would have been if the UN inspectors were left alone — and he can’t even prove he showed up for his military service.
I know I would have liked to have been assigned duty I didn’t have to account for and still have gotten my honorable discharge.
Dean
You know, Mike, I remember reading that piece m’self, and wondering,
“Now, how would a person have gotten their hands onto those records? The records are officially listed as missing. And the President might have a copy, that’s true, but who else would have one?”
More to the point, if you DID have one, why in the world would you come forward and say, “I have somebody else’s record, but for $1000, I’ll give ’em up?” I mean, if it turned out, somehow, that I had your Social Security records, do you think I’d ‘fess up for a paltry $1000? Especially if that might leave me open to prosecution (since, as I said, there’d be inevitably the question of just how I got my hands on them in the first place)?
The lack of an answer is hardly proof that there isn’t one.
Mike
Dean, I don’t have answers for you. I just know that the press and the democrats are feeding the president a sword he takes credit for living by — and it looks good on him. At least Bill Clinton had the decency not to take credit for military service he never performed.
The way y’all just stick by him unconditionally — considering the projected record-breaking $520 billion deficit for this year — it just looks like a prostitute knifing some guy trying to stop her pimp from beating her. You don’t even look like you have the sense to act in your own self-interest.
Dean
One of us seems to be having reading comprehension issues.
Define “stick by him unconditionally”? John Cole, the proprietor of this blog, has lambasted Dubya for his spending habits. I don’t think I’ve ever come out in support of him (critiquing critics is not the same as supporting the Prez, and certainly not “unconditionally”).
As for the rest, you never answered Slarti’s question about your asserting that they held the carrier out of port an extra day.
You make the bald assertion that the invasion and the UN inspectors proved the same thing, when neither the post-’91 inspections, nor the ’03 inspections have ever answered, yet, the issue “What happened to Saddam’s WMD?”
If we’re guilty of “unconditionally supporting” the President, what are you doing, but being unconditionally critical? If you had a little substance, it might be interesting and even illuminating, and dareIsay persuasive? But simply frothing and throwing assertions about, that’s tiresome, at best.
Slartibartfast
That’s the “Changing the subject” variety of logical fallacy, Dean.
But you already knew that.
Andrew Lazarus
No, the prevailing winds appear to have had rather little to do with the setup on the carrier. The Associated Press on Flyboy’s carrier antics: Exceprts from http://work.colum.edu/~amiller/tomcruise/assocpresstomcruise.htm
[begin excerpt]
Officials also acknowledged positioning the massive ship to provide the best TV angle for Bush’s speech, with the vast sea as his background instead of the very visible San Diego coastline.
[snip]
There was no denying the ship’s movements were carefully choreographed to benefit Bush.
Commanders gauged the wind and glided along at precisely that speed so that sea breezes would not blow across the ship during Bush’s speech. That could create unwanted noise, Daniels said.
When the wind shifted during the speech, the ship changed course to minimize the breeze, said Petty Officer 3rd Class Terrance Rice.
The camera angle also was arranged by the White House to ensure it did not show the nearby coastline. A huge banner reading “Mission Accomplished” was strung along the bridge and loomed behind Bush.
Mike
Uh, yeah, my words were poorly chosen.
How does that compare to “You accuse Bush of desertion, therefore I accuse Josh Marshall of doing unsavory things to children?” — a bad analogy because the president wants credit he isn’t entitled to by default.
Josh Marshall never sold himself as being trustworthy with children, and he never benefitted from it with anything comparable with the office of president of the United States.
John’s “I only have my 214” is also a bad analogy, because John just isn’t trusted with the stakes George W Bush is responsible for.
Yeah, “Mike has poor reading comprehension.” At least my “handicap” doesn’t prompt me to speak against my own self-interest — like some prostitute knifing a guy because he tried to stop her pimp from beating her.
My point is that the press and the democrats are feeding the president the same sword he takes credit for welding, and it looks good on him. “Ooh, Mike used hyperbole — the president is therefore above answering for his questionable service.” That’s crap.
Jon H
Has anyone seen any information on Bush’s academic performance at Harvard?
His SAT score is on the web, some Yale grades are on the web, but I’ve never seen any indication of his performance at Harvard.
Could be some quirk of Harvard’s approach to grading. For all I know, they don’t track GPA. But if they do, it’s interesting that Bush’s GPA is apparently unknown.
Slartibartfast
Odd. I’ve heard repeatedly he carried a C average. But I’m far too unconcerned about such trivia to Google it.
Jon H
Slarti writes: “Odd. I’ve heard repeatedly he carried a C average. But I’m far too unconcerned about such trivia to Google it.”
That’s the conventional wisdom about his Yale years. And what he admits to. I’m not sure about his Harvard years. It’s probably a good guess, though.
I’ve seen mention that Bush didn’t get into U of T law school, and Harvard Business School was a fallback, but that might be internet nonsense.
Slartibartfast
Hard to imagine that one could get into a Harvard MBA program with anything worse than a middling-B average. Odder things have happened, though.
Patrick
Andrew,
Let’s not confuse winds over deck for landing with manipulating the ship for the photo-op for the speech. The ship was steered for the hook landing into the wind, and no amount of choreography would change that. It’s safety first. That they steered the ship during his speech to minimize the wind interfering with it is understandable, no?
Andrew J. Lazarus
Patrick, do you see it this way?
1. Ship steered for safety of landing (which could of course have been done by the usual helicopter).
2. Ship moved to begin speech for entirely political purposes of better backdrop.
3. Small adjustments made during speech for wind noise.
Slartibartfast
Fuck me, if all you guys have left is “they steered the ship to get a better backdrop”, I’m out of this discussion.
Granted. Now make of it what you will.
Jon H
I wrote: “I’ve seen mention that Bush didn’t get into U of T law school, and Harvard Business School was a fallback, but that might be internet nonsense.”
The rejection by U of T law school was reported in a friendly, extensive multi-part 2000 profile of Bush in the Washington Post.
So this does seem to be true. I suppose state schools have tighter standards than private, endowment-oriented schools like Harvard.
Slarti wrote: “Hard to imagine that one could get into a Harvard MBA program with anything worse than a middling-B average.”
My academic performance is actually in Bush’s ballpark – 1280 SAT around 1989, 2.8 undergrad GPA overall (partly due to 2 years flailing as a Mechanical Engineering major before changing to Information Systems, and also undiagnosed ADD).
I harbor no illusions about my chances of getting into Harvard Business School. It’d be quite unlikely. My parents were dirt-poor depression kids, and neither went to college. No influential or wealthy relatives.
Mike
Well, that, and all the other regurgitated lies issued to keep the president from eating the sword he takes credit for living by — right John? You know all about regurgitated lies!
Mike
Well, that, and all the other regurgitated lies issued to keep the president from eating the sword he takes credit for living by — right John? You know all about regurgitated lies!
Slartibartfast
Saying something that makes no sense twice doesn’t help much, mike. Saying it to John when it’s my words you quoted is even less smart.
But do tell us how a change in ship’s heading is a major squandering of taxpayer dollars, or, alternately, a nefarious scheme to misinform the American public.
On second thought, don’t bother. I think you’ve already calibrated yourself as a crank.
Mike
I accidentally hit the post button twice and can’t edit it.
The White House issued a photo deceptively portraying the president as having a stake in the soldiers he sent to war. It’s no less a lie than I’ve been accused of — by John. It makes sense.
But then no one should be surprised by what you can’t make sense of, when you don’t even realize we can’t edit our own posts.
Oh, ok, well…
You got it, chief.
Greyhawk
But when will Kerry provide the evidence that he actually earned that Silver Star? He got it via his political connections, you know. As commander of the boat his own write-up was the only evidence evaluated.
He could easily settle this by providing something other than his word and that of the people who were forced to serve under him.
And why does he refuse to prove that he hasn’t been treated for gonorrhea on several occasions? He has you know. I read it online.
He could easily solve all of this by providing evidence, after which I will fabricate additional claims and additional demands.
Mike
Well, hell, he had that guy whose life he saved crying on national television for him. Boy, would Kerry be in a shitload of trouble if there was no paperwork he was in Viet Nam. It looks like he’s set up for someone to bust him.
And if Kerry’s lead can be attributed to representing himself as VD-free — photographed strutting around the USS Howard Hughs — he would certainly be in a shitload of trouble for that also.
So — are these supposed to be reasons for me not to compare you “middle-class defenders of George W Bush” to prostitutes knifing some guy for stopping her pimp from beating her?
Mike
” just to bring us where we would have been if the UN inspectors were left alone”
Soo…twelve years of occasionally disrupted inspections, ineffective sanctions which were routinely ignored by certain nations, and repeated Iraqi violations of UN resolutions and the terms of the ceasefire are an acceptable status quo to the left – and they resulted in the entire world, including certain European nations now bawling about how mean the big bad US is, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Hans Blix for starters, believing that Saddam had a massive stockpile of WMDs.
But nine months after the fall of Saddam, which occurred after a year-long “rush to war” and a “unilateral” engagement involving literally dozens of countries we dare not call “allies,” and we now think we know for certain that there were no WMDs. Okay, fine. The left is certainly right about one thing: the fact that we’re now in a position to eventually find out the truth about Saddam’s WMDs is indeed “all Bush’s fault.” Certainly the UN and its apologists don’t deserve any credit for it.
The inspectors were never “left alone,” and were never going to be. Saddam kicked them out whenever he found them inconvenient, or misled them, or refused to allow them access to where they wanted to go. There’s also plenty of evidence that the “surprise” inspections – the only meaningful kind – were nothing of the sort, and that on at least one occasion Saddam’s minions were tipped off by a corrupt inspector. To say that continuing with such a charade would have gotten us anything at all except more of the same unacceptable situation we’d already had twelve years of is just a noxious brew of delusional Lefty wishful thinking, 20/20 hindsight, and out and out dishonesty.
Oh, and carriers always, always turn into the wind and also increase speed as necessary when commencing flight operations. Optimum is 35 knots of wind down the deck; operative principle is a little thing called “lift.” Some of y’all might want to check into it sometime before you succumb to the latest nutjob Bushater conspiracy theory about why aircraft carriers make turns when at sea.
Mike
Yes. We are where we would have been if the US allowed UN inspections to continue. If anything, the US would not look as stoopid for spending hundreds of billions of dollars to get there.
Slartibartfast
“The White House issued a photo deceptively portraying the president as having a stake in the soldiers he sent to war. It’s no less a lie than I’ve been accused of — by John. It makes sense.”
Although it may be true that you can say lots more with a picture than with words in some cases, I can’t think how you’d arrange a picture that says what you say it does. If that’s what it meant to you, you’re pretty much alone. To me, all it meant was he was welcoming this particular set of servicemen home, and congratulating them on a job well done. Because that’s all it was, and all it claimed to be.
Mike
“We are where we would have been if the US allowed UN inspections to continue.”
You might want to try running that one past Saddam; I doubt he’d agree. Neither would the few thousand Iraqis he’d have had shredded by now. Not that that’s at all relevant, of course.
And of course, you’re right in a sense: there’d most likely be just as many inspectors in Iraq as there actually are at the moment, because Saddam would no doubt have tossed them out on their hapless asses again by now. And they’d have been every bit as effective as they ever were, too. Some things never change. I stand “corrected.”
Trump
Why are people on the left now bringing this up? They certainly felt it wasn’t a problem whena draft dodger was their nominee. And if Dean would’ve been their choice, I think they would mysteriously been quiet also.
So….if you’re questioning Bush on this now, but had no problem with Clinton- well, you’re a hypocrite. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Trump
Of course, if we think military experience is so important for the presidency now, what seems better to you: A few months commanding a small boat 35 years ago? Or 3+ years as commander-in-chief?
Additionally, if we think the military is soooo important now, why does the left want to elect a candidate who smeared the military by 1) having false vets testify in front of congress and 2) virtually accused all the military of committing war crimes? (and will Kerry seek to punish those war criminals when he gets into office?)
Yes, some questions for the hypocrite left to ask themselves while they suddenly realize how much they really loved military service and our troops all along….
Mike
And if Hussein or any Iraqi says the US is not now where we would have been if the US had allowed UN inspections to continue — they would be wrong.
If we go by your figure in the thousands — even 100,000 Iraqi lives saved still come out to at least $1,000,000,000 per Iraqi. (99,975 after we discount the $25,000,000,000 bounty on Hussein.)
The average age in Iraq before the invasion was reported at 15 — for a million dollars per life saved, why the hell didn’t George Bush just offer US citizens $500,000 for each Iraqi they sponsor for US citizenship and increase his save-tally to 200,000?
It only takes $10,000 to smuggle someone out of communist China in a cargo box. That’s $490,000 left over going back to US citizens. The figure could be dropped to $250,000 and someone could make over a $200,000 salary helping to smuggle 1 Iraqi to sponsor a year and send him to night school full-time.
When are y’all gonna demonstrate the basic sense to speak in your own self-interest?
Mike
That should say “at least $1,000,000 per Iraqi. (99,975 after we discount the $25,000,000 bounty on Hussein.)”
S.W. Anderson
I strongly suspect the same oh-so-helpful person who got George w. into the Texas Air Guard, into a much-desired fighter pilot training slot, ahead of all those on a long waiting list, also got George W. off the hook for taking some impromptu time off.
That same oh-so-helpful person probably got George W. out of the Guard eight months early, when that’s what George W. wanted.
The way President George W. deflected his eyes, repeatedly, on being asked about this by Tim Russert spoke volumes about the deceitfulness involved.
No, I don’t think he’s flat out lying about his guard service. But check his words: He said he did attend drills, he did fly an F-102. He uses his DD-214 as proof he did *all* he was supposed to. Therein, I suspect, lies the deceit. It’s like the kid who pushes a broom around a little and, when asked if he swept the floor, says yes. Well, he did sorta move the broom over it.
You can be sure the son of a Texas congressman from a politically powerful family only had to have daddy’s staffer make a phone call or two to fix whatever problems arose concerning George W’s attendance or lack thereof.
Didn’t nobody want to raise a stink that would reflect badly on the congressman, on W. or on the Guard.
Andrew J. Lazarus
New material on Bush military record at Calpundit.
I think we’ll be seeing a revised autobiography from Bush.
Steve Malynn
Here is the impass, those who are not familiar with military records insist upon misreading military jargon or records in order to “find” a cover-up; those familiar with the way the military personel file looks try to correct the misperceptions, but are tarred as either ignoramus yes-men or complicit conspirators. This debate is completely devoid of good will. I will simply post the response I recieved from a respected professor of economics:
Malynn (me):
>Prof. Brad,
>
> You’re barking up the wrong tree on Calpundit’s latest
>”Bush AWOL” thread, the paragraph you excerpt>[1] is the form
>”letter of intent” that every guardsman/reservist signs prior
>to/upon taking an assignment to a unit. You will find such a letter
>in the record book of every single servicemember of a guard or
>reserve unit.
>
> I don’t know if you’ve spoken to many serving
>reservists, but this veteran has followed everything posted on the
>web, with too much interest. I have significant experience in
>discharging non-performing reservists, having turned around a
>moribund unit in time to have it combat ready for activation in
>Desert Storm. There is nothing in dozens of documents that have
>surfaced so far that even suggests his commander in Texas was
>concerned in 1972-73 with the whereabouts of 1stLt Bush.
Delong:
Exactly. Bush appears to have decided in May 1972 that he was no
longer interested in flying airplanes for the Texas Air National
Guard. And he never did–relying on his father’s political
connections to keep his evasion of pilot duty from having any
consequences. I don’t see any other way to read the record.
Malynn:
>30 years later you can imagine that the lack of concern was due to
>command negligence, nefarious conspiracy or simply business as usual
>- granting a unit member the courtesy of fulfilling his commitment
>in a manner that did not interfere with his full-time employment.
>”Imagination” is not evidence, it takes evidence to obtain an
>administrative or punitive discharge.
>
> The problem of those holding to a “AWOL” theory is that
>you have to believe that the entire chain of command was corrupt in
>order to make your case. That is insulting the entire branch of the
>service,
Delong:
Look: the entire chain of command *was* corrupt during the Vietnam
War. It’s not partisan to say so. Colin Powell says so. You are the
first person I have met who appears to deny it.
—
Yours,
Brad DeLong
***
No evidence is necessary to convict the President, and no amount of evidence is sufficient to exonerate him, as far as the blogospheric left is concerned. We may as well stop trying.
Philip N. Ewing
God Bless President Bush …. a true American Hero.
Slartibartfast
Oh, please. Bush is neither a hero nor a villain. Pretty much like the rest of us.
Jim Snowden
Nice site… thank you for letting people air their comments.
My grandfather was a republican senator. Quite frankly, I think he is rolling in his grave over the current administration… with thousands of innocent people DEAD (mostly children with the average age of Iraqi’s under 20) and no WMD’s ever found it leaves the Administration in a criminal stature and the US in a shameful state of affairs. Bin Laden’s ranks have swelled, the economy is fragile with very little money of the largest “defeceit” in history going in sustainable directions.
I’m an ex-homeland security software architect.. I’ve been living in Switzerland for more than a year (my wife is Swiss and we have been waiting for almost two years for a visa). It has been quite refreshing. They care more for their environment (although most of the true wilderness is long gone, I hope we do a better job holding on to ours), they have almost no crime, a decent economy and a good education system.
All of the children walk safely to school from about age 5 without adult assistance and without incident. They play in the street without fear of abduction or violence. Quite frankly, I’m wondering why we are applying to go back to the US.
We use 25% of the worlds energy resources yet we have 5% of the worlds’ population. We are a wasteful bunch of self-serving children that need to grow up and do the best to lead the world into a sustainible, clean future for our children and ourselves.
The best thing about the “burning” Bush administration is that it made me look at what we (Americans and other first worlders) are doing to the planet and each other.
God bless a new, more sane America with less violence, less pollution, more education and more opportunity.
In 1918, Theodore Roosevelt said…
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”