I’d like to see the Great Orange Satan poll Republicans on this at some point (I know I’m nutpicking with this link):
Who do you trust more… Big Government, or the U.S. Military?
This is the poll question they will never ask you, because your answer might be the wrong one. That would scare the starch out of Washington, D.C.
I trust our military more. Big Government is assassinating the country. Yes, it’s come to that. What about you? Can you honestly tell me differently? Answer, if you dare.
JenJen
Ahhh, I love the smell of Military Dictatorships in the
morningafternoon.liberty60
I have never heard of Tim Doctor, but based on the question he asked, I haven’t missed much.
FWIW, the best answer is in his own comments section:
I wonder if that was Tim Doctor I saw at a rally holding a sign that said “Don’t let the Government take over Medicare!”
Ash
Big government runs the military, ya people-who-are-not-very-intelligent-aka-in-colloquial-terms-retards.
Sentient Puddle
Don’t these people realize that we live in a democracy? That if they trust the military leaders more than the politicians in office, they can vote for the military leaders?
Guess not.
licensed to kill time
Can the original questioner honestly tell us how the military is not part of Big Government?
(ETA: My edit function is back! {{{happy dance}}}
freelancer
Freeper’s Constant – direct 1:1 correlation between the inanity of a claim and the claimant’s inability to express it with proper English spelling and grammar.
Persia
What about the gay soldiers in the military? Does Tim Doctor trust them?
Balconesfault
Let’s see – the only way the military trumps civil government is by violating their oath.
I’m confused.
Mark S.
Some people say what we need is a military coup.
Rick Massimo
“Assassinating the country.”
I still want someone to ask what “destroying America” actually consists of, because the wingnuts never, ever, ever explain what they mean by that. “Assassinating the country”? I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean.
Balconesfault
@Mark S.:
Hell – I’ve talked with them on FrumForum.
Scary lot.
j.e.b.
Damn! This guy’s got the goods on Breitbart!
Chyron HR
I dub thee, “Graham Cracker”.
Keith G
Big government is not hurting the country. A government fought over by mostly hateful, small minded and self interested fucktards is what is killing this society.
But its what the Teabaggers want, so it must be good for America.
Dork
Since when can you use “assassinate” in the present tense? Doesn’t the word’s definition demand you use this in only the past or future tenses only?
matt
Would a military coup be good for Republicans? We’ll have to leave it there.
licensed to kill time
@Dork:
“The Country” is a zombie, therefore an assassination loop is necessary for Big Government to effectively kill it or it rises again.
liberty60
@Mark S.:
It would be irresponsible NOT to speculate!
Hob
@Dork: Big Government just keeps right on strumming our pain with its fingers, singing our life with its words, assassinating us softly with its song.
Ash
@licensed to kill time:
Ahhhhhhh, so that’s where all the brains have gone, “The Country” has been eating them.
Elie
While I am not arguing for suppression of information like this, tell me why would Kos release such a demoralizing result at a time when we are trying to rally the progressive/Democratic troops? Is this how he thinks we build the progressive morale and empowerment by highlighting that the opposition is just crazy beyond any hope of reason? This stuff hurts US not them! As if we had to panick our already deserting army any further!
I tell you I have to believe that at least part of what is wrong is not just the “other side”, but our own side? We should be taking up what is positive that we can BUILD on, rally around, strengthen ourselves! Not hear one more time about this sort of crap.
I’ve had it with our own crap spreaders. This poll provided no new information that we already did not know or suspect and is just a morale buster — to OUR side.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Dork: Don’t think so. There is a point in time between “LHO will assassinate Kennedy” and “LHO assassinated Kennedy” where “LHO is assassinating Kennedy” was true. Unless you’re a conspiracy nut, that is.
The Populist
I trust neither but I will take a government that I can vote out over a military establishment any day.
Mayken
@Rick Massimo: Nah, that’s an easy one. It means “doing things I don’t approve of” or alternatively “being run by Democrats.” They’ll try to say it less blatantly but that’s essentially the answer I always get.
Bubblegum Tate
Government out of my military!
Legalize
None of this inquiry into whether or not this makes “sense” matters. All that matters is that teh Military is teh awesome and Big Gubberment is teh suck. It’s easy to know which side to root for when one knows very simple and obvious truths. And know, “knowing” has nothing to do with fact or evidence, or reality. Therefore, purple dishwasher, monkey Honda Accord.
slag
You might be able to take military out of the government. But can you take government out of the military?
New Yorker
Is it inevitable that we’re going to have our own Pinochet one of these years?
Remember, Chile was in the early 70s, the wealthiest country in Latin America, with the most deeply established democratic tradition. If it could happen there, it can happen here.
As I type this, my wingnut uncle keeps sending me stuff about how terrorists are not afforded rights under the Geneva conventions. To be fair, I goaded him into this by sending him Glenn Greenwald’s column about how Reagan is now “radical left” by the standards he applied to terrorists in the 1980s.
matt
Ok, Bubblegum Tate wins.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Elie: Kos’s poll did give us something. The next time someone says that it’s only a few people that believe those things, you can now whip this out to prove that nope, it’s infected most of the Republican party. I realize that their next statement will probably be “Lies, damn lies, and statistics” but they will be saying it less sure of themselves.
Evinfuilt
I don’t see the Repubs trusting the Military much longer. They no longer trust General Petraus, and Gates is evil in their minds. Once DADT is gone, they won’t be able to trust the Military at all since its just an indoctrination tool to make everyone gay.
artem1s
Yea, I trust the military more because Rwanda, Somalia, San Salvador, etc. are such great places to live. And also we want Sadam and the Republican Guard back.
El Cid
So, the same types would be happy if Obama kept referring to himself all the time as ‘the nation’s’ Commander In Chief like Bush Jr. did?
Why oh why
How long until the need for a military coup becomes a basic Republican talking point, just like torture, illegal detentions…?
WRC
i think i have become inherently more stupid having read that question….god help us all…
Kevin Phillips Bong
What I want to know is when this country’s military fetish will finally bear some fruit and get me laid. Enough with the free drinks already.
arguingwithsignposts
Proof that our educational system is in the shitter: when people like this guy can spout b.s. like this and appear in public. I would note that several of the 6 commenters pointed out his stupidity. His other nutbag stuff on the site is similarly crazy, verging onto Orly Taitz territory.
ETA: Not to mention that he’s wrong in his opinion. The military is just as bureaucratic and f**ked up as most other branches of gov’t. Has he not read Catch-22 (rhetorical question), seen Full Metal Jacket, heard of Walter Reid Hospital? the F-22 and JSF boondoggles? Or the history of the Civil War?
twiffer
@Rick Massimo: it means…well, wait…i don’t know either. but i bet it’s got something to do with not forcing people to listen to jesus.
nightshift66
To be generous, I think the intented question was, “Whom do you trust more, the elected officials of the country, or the U.S. Armed Forces?” I also think that is how his readership understood the question. In one sense, it is easy to see why so many here would trust the military more. The armed forces are only in the news when they (1) fight our wars or (2) provide humanitarian aid. Elected officials are in the news with scandals, petty infighting, and general incompetence. Americans have no experience with military dictatorships, and (wrongly) believe that OUR military would continue its supposedly benevolent ways if it replaced the civilian government.
nightshift66
Of course, by “here” I meant the United States, not this website. I should have been more clear on that.
Bill H
That’s like saying, “Which would you prefer more, dinner at Antione’s or a dump truck?” I mean, really. That isn’t even comparing apples and oranges, but more like comparing green beans and New York City. They are two entirely different things, structured differently and serving entirely different purposes.
I know, I’m demonstrating a monstrous lack of a sense of humor. That’s on purpose.
Andy K
@liberty60:
It’s one thing to not get sarcasm when it’s done subtly (I’m looking at you, DougJ), but when you completely miss the part in the banner that says “With Liberty & Sarcasm For All”, it makes Sarcastic Teenage Jesus weep.
Michael
The Lady’s Got Potential is a great song on this…..
MikeJ
People who prefer the military because they think it doesn’t display these traits don’t know anything about the military.
thomas
when I was a guest worker for Uncle Sam (drafted) we knew that the difference between the boy scouts and the army was that the boy scouts had adult leaders.
Have things changed?
Henry Bayer
I trust the military more because it is less corruptible by bad government (Republicans). Would anyone appoint a Secretary of Defense who spent their career arguing that the Military should be abolished? Appoint someone Secretary of the Army who wanted to throw out all rules and regulations that have kept it running effectively? Neither Republicans or Democrats would.
But if you remember the Bush appointees, this was the exact qualifications that got you a job running Federal agencies.
Andy K
@nightshift66:
To be generous, I think the point was to show that the military is big government.
arguingwithsignposts
@Andy K:
From the about page:
That, sir, was not sarcasm.
Also, this:
Tim, speaking as a fellow Gen-Xer who grew up and realized politics is not all Randian b.s. – STFU and stop sullying our name.
(earlier version in mod hell.)
Elie
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
But it doesn’t stengthen us at all. It just makes us fearful and defensive. The next thing I will here is how we should adopt some of these crazy ideas for our own purposes.
We need food for our souls and for the fight ahead and that does not come from seeing the truth from the other side’s perspecitve. We have to identify what we believe in strongly enough to fight for. Right now, I am not convinced that the left progressives have anything like that. We had a golden opportunity and we turned on each other, not the other side. And now, one of our so called progressive blog leaders spreads more crap about the crazy strength of the other side and we all spend time reflecting on that shit rather than how we are going to build ourselves and our message back up again. What do we affirm? What do we advocate for? What will we fight for? Don’t you see that!?
Napoleon
@Elie:
Why does it hurt “us”. I think part of the reason he did it, and which I would agree with, is to prove to the Democrats that they have to get by the idea that they have to bring Republicans on board. It is not going to happen. But our office holders are like the guy who has been dumped by his wife who believes that she is going to walk trough the door any minute now and return.
But she will not.
Until the Dems realize that the Republicans are the party of scorched Earth and decide that they are going to have to enact any program on their own nothing will get done.
arguingwithsignposts
@arguingwithsignposts:
I just wanted to re-emphasize this little nugget from Mr. Doctor’s About page:
From the constitution:
That’s a lot more than “jack,” asshat. Seems that there’s a lot in there that the federal government is – by the founding papers – owing us a lot.
Sloegin
You can trust the military to be effective and efficient at their core competency; killing people.
Other things? Not so much.
The Populist
@matt:
Since the military has been infiltrated by extreme fundies, I’d say it would be BAD to have any kind of coup. Democracy is messy but it’s the only way to govern.
still liberal
DougJ
If you are that busy today, don’t even bother.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Henry Bayer:
Henry – glad to see you woke up from your coma. The year is now 2010. What’s happened since 2000? Funny you should ask. Well, we started these wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Pentagon and the CIA did all the planning for them, including all of the post-major combat operations phase…
Gunner
If you’re in Knoxville, there will be a whole lot conservatives you can poll (no, not in that way), all in one place. The doughy pantload is giving a talk on campus tonight. I’m sure Instahack will be there, it’s free. I can’t go, but if you’re able to go, make sure your stupid meter can go up to 11. Jonah’s going to peg that needle tonight.
Ash Can
@artem1s: And what about Costa Rica? They dumped their military altogether, and look what happened to them! They took all that money and put it into wussy stuff like education and infrastructure, and now they’re…uh…they’re…um…
…Now they’re too darned happy for their own good, I tellz ya! Also.
Andy K
@arguingwithsignposts:
@arguingwithsignposts:
None of this changes the fact that the question is a nifty little rhetorical trick. The U.S. military is a function of big government.
toujoursdan
What I have never understood is that the Wingnut crowd has strong roots in fundamentalist religious communities that emphasize the depravity of human beings. They believe that people are, by nature, evil.
Yet, they embrace “small” government (g)libertarianism whereby man must be inherently good for such a society to work. Somehow in their fantasy world, people who construct buildings won’t need oversight because they will naturally do it well and the result will be a safe building. Companies who market drugs will only sell those which are safe and effective. No one will cut corners. No one will put their self interest ahead of others’ wellbeing. No one will oppress or exploit the weak.
I have never understood how they can reconcile those polar opposite view of human nature.
trizzlor
Love the macho posturing in the comments:
Really? Is the government going to mug you in a dark alley? Are you going to be reloading your bolt-action when the tea-baggers take on the national guard? Did your shotgun keep you from getting laid off?
I’m almost tempted to believe the “religion and guns” are the opiate of the masses. As someone who actually shoots for sport, this is like saying I trust my ping-pong table above all else.
ruemara
@Rick Massimo:
There’s a gun pointed at Rhode Island’s head and a bomb in West Virginia’s ribcage.
demo woman
The President had a town hall in NH this afternoon and had a great line.
I’m not naive enough to believe that it will help but I did write the networks and asked if they will be leading off with this story.
maus
Uh, why would they be scared to answer “The US Military”? I’m completely missing how this would not be consistent with their views. It’s only thinking people who would find any issue with that.
Napoleon
@demo woman:
I guess he also called for people to contact their Congress people and press for HCR.
Elie
@trizzlor:
To you and toujoursdan above, I believe that we would all be somewhat surprised to see the results of a similar survey presented to so called Democrats and/or liberals. I think that we may have a few crazies ourselves and some of the discussion in recent months with the Kill the Bill types and the views underneath their seemingly liberal exteriors, openned my eyes to who the people in this country of BOTH parties, really are.
I think that the question is not really how many crazies are in the Republicans versus the Democrats, but how prevalent are the crazies/reactionaries of all stripes vis a vis those who believe in rational, balanced and representative governance and objective, provable reality. I would think that right now, the rationalists may be in the minority. THAT is our national problem and why all this crazy is so hard to beat back…
artem1s
@Ash Can:
…Now they’re too darned happy for their own good, I tellz ya! Also.
LOL!
It’s a wonder we haven’t blown them back to the stone age just for having the audacity to have a good time without a police state.
geg6
@Elie:
I think you should speak only for yourself here. It certainly doesn’t make me fearful or defensive. It does, however, make me point and laugh at them more.
How does understanding who these people and what they believe stop us from knowing our own beliefs and what we are prepared to fight for? I’m sorry, but I don’t understand this AT ALL. One thing does not cancel out the other. In fact, it may even strengthen what we believe and our resolve to keep fighting.
Personally, I affirm, advocate, and fight for the same things I’ve always done. I don’t understand at all why you think understanding the enemy is counterproductive to my political goals.
Frank Chow
Umm…somebody has been watching too many Michael Bay films.
Joey Maloney
I just heard a promo for today’s All Things Considered – guess who will be a guest, crowing about how new media have disrupted MSM’s narratives, making it possible to deliver The Truth to the masses?
Andrew Breitbart.
I’ll be in the corner, weeping, curled around a bottle of Four Roses.
Sasha
@toujoursdan:
They can’t. That’s why they yell and shriek “2+2=5”, so that they won’t have to confront the fact that it doesn’t and drown out anyone who points it out to them.
Alex S.
Maybe Doug should found a “polling company” and ask exactly those confusing questions that don’t serve any purpose but to question the conventional wisdom.
Scamp Dog
The cool thing about that post is that about half the commenters think the post is nonsense. The guy isn’t as smart as his audience!
freelancer
@Joey Maloney:
Breitbart is overplaying his hand here. (No surprise) When O’Keefe gets sunk for felony after felony, he’ll just turn the dial from 11 to 15 and will flame out in a singularity of douchebaggery.
Ash Can
@ruemara: Not to mention the
dildoart model in Texas’s rectum.Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Elie: Concern troll is concerned.
John S.
I don’t what the fuck is the deal with Gen-Xer politics:
Unfortunately, I can’t really disagree with the assessment as my own un-scientific anecdotal data concurs with that statement. But I really don’t know why that is the case. Maybe my wife the sociologist can give me a good explanation…
Bob L
The libertarians want a military dictatorship,..? Yes, I am living in The Onion.
demo woman
Finally! I went on Wonkette, MSNBC.com, Washington Post.com and Latimes.com and I finally found an article about the President in NH. Maybe the Nytimes is liberal after all or maybe it is All the news that’s fit to print.
Earlier I complained about the President not using the bully pulpit. I take that back since his first name isn’t Joe, Evan or Ben.
Jon H
Ah, Republican love for authoritarian, centrally-planned, socialist government knows no bounds.
Elie
@geg6:
I think that we need a more positive approach more geared towards affirming what WE believe in. Opinions may differ on this and you are well within your rights (which I never questioned) to continue to wallow on the other side’s crazy ideology. As long as it doesnt stop your activism to get the things that you believe in done and the positive energy to do so.
I personally believe in spending less time looking at what I already know to be true and more time figuring out what we are doing, collectively not just individually. I know we are all one person, but its how all the ones become our own power and force.
Hey, you think this is a good way to fight the war we are fighting? Great. I just completely disagree
Elie
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Bullshit.
A troll is by definition someone who is striving to destroy or take down through creepy comments meant to distract from understanding or truly having a discussion about an issue. That is not me and your stupid labeling does nothing.
Get lost. You deserve the disrespect that I am showing you and your stupid comment
Elie
@Napoleon:
I dont disagree with anything you say. I am just saying that it is nevertheless demoralizing to hear a steady diet of this rather than what we affirmatively believe and want to encourage. Were you (now be honest) truly surprised to learn any of this? Really? So what was gained and what did it take away from in the opportunity to think about something else or plan from another more positive place.
Most athletes and other in competitive activities learn some aspects of the opposition, but they mostly spend time on getting themselves ready, growing their own capabilities and strengths. That is all I am saying. This is not information that shifts anything or provides any new insights or most importantly, illuminate any plan of action for us. They are crazy. We KNOW that already. Now what?
The Moar You Know
@Elie: concern troll is now extremely concerned.
geg6
@Elie:
Well, I am a big believer in “know thine enemy.” I get plenty of affirmation for my views from my family, friends, colleagues, and significant other. And I don’t need affirmation to be politically active. I’ve been an active Democrat since 1976. You can’t work in the trenches that long and still expect to be affirmed.
b-psycho
@Bob L: This guy can call himself a “libertarian” all he wants, it still won’t make irrational lust for the war machine consistent with such a claim.
freelancer
The thing that I think amuses me most of all about the wingnuts and their militaristic coup fantasies isn’t that they are so crazy. That’s kind of a given. But that they can’t think but 5 minutes in front of themselves.
It’s that they take place completely in a vacuum. Imagine the xenophobic, fucktard, wingnut base of the party actually seizes power and is in control of the government.
Sure, they would immediately try to crack down on the domestic population and the inevitable pushback of reasonable people, but they are completely blind to how much other countries are invested in our current government and the status quo.
With the amount of debt China owns and would stand to lose, with Middle Eastern countries already wary of the US, now staring down the barrel of a loaded nuclear neo-con gun, they don’t even think, not even for a second, that another country, maybe even a current ally would consider intervening to halt the global nightmare of a Freeper Revolution.
They are fucking idiots, all of them.
Sasha
@John S.:
My un-scientific opinion would be anti-Boomer backlash.
Elie
@geg6:
I guess I was more talking about the planning and “affirmation” that is needed to grow and support our values at the grassroots. (Although I am equally supported by the values of my friends, family and community, I am strengthnned when these are reinforced). Ya know — spread the message. From where I sit, we need to work on that piece a lot.
You keep talking about you and what you believe and that is of course, the one person that you have control of, so understand that. That said, if we don’t work towards building a larger and stronger community of people with your values and mine, there isnt much need for the politics of trying to get anything done. Does that happen by accident? Do we build that with repeating this stupid shit? (holding aside that it gives you a good feeling apparently). That is what I mean by affirmative messaging and positivity. My time is valuable as I am sure yours is. How much time do you want to spend hearing the same stuff.. Of course, that is an answer only you can give yourself.
Death Panel Truck
Right wing nut: Hey, you got your big government in my military!
Left wing nut: Hey, you got your military in my big government!
Sane person: Two great tastes that taste great together!
maus
@Elie: PERHAPS THE TRUTH LIES IN THE MIDDLE AMIRITE?
jenniebee
@toujoursdan: In their theory, it’s never in a person’s self-interest to attempt to take advantage of others, nor is it in a person’s self-interest to get taken in by misleading claims, ergo when either of those things happens it happens because of a corruption to the natural system in the form of an attempt by the members of the system to organize and oversee the system itself.
It kinda makes me want to sell them all some unsupported vaporware, maybe one with a “service agreement” in which they agree that I own and control all information gained by a keylogger embedded in the code. It’d be a win-win. I’d get rich, and they’d learn a valuable lesson in getting laughed at all the way to the bank.
Zandar
Well, Big Government has more hit points, but Military has a higher DPS.
batgirl
And here it is: The headline on yahoo.com is “Fallout from Obama chief of staff’s insult”
John S.
Maybe, but I would have thought that either rebelling against A) the wild-eyed optimism of dirty hippies or B) the hypocrisy of once dirty hippies becoming selfish pricks would result in a serious dose of pragmatism. And ironically, that same website I linked to says:
I don’t see how being a pragmatist (which I consider myself to be) leads to being a hardcore Republican. I have always seen the GOP as home to a bunch of ideologues whose ideas do not comport with reality. That hardly seems like a welcome place for pragmatists who aren’t single-issue voters.
Comrade Dread
Anyone asking the question is a moron.
The military is a part of the government they so deride. It is so integrated into the bureaucracy and system that the two would be inseparable.
As it stands, the military gets everything they want and no bad publicity for being a huge, costly, behemoth bureaucracy from it’s admirers. So why, in God’s name, would they ever want to bother with a coup? They’d have far less power if they were actually responsible for governing.
jenniebee
@Zandar: I think Big Government’s best bet is to zerg Military. Ignore the adds and the tanks and burn the Bosses and casters down hard. With enough flasks, pots and a good assist train, we should be able to beat them before they enrage, and then it’s badges and l00tz all around.
AkaDad
We can’t let this happen. The guy who delivers my mail is in for a huge surprise tomorrow.
jenniebee
@John S.:
My un-scientific opinion would be anti-Boomer backlash.
I don’t see this one either, although it certainly is there as sub-text. It could just as easily be that Gen-X’rs parents were sharply divided in their politics along gender lines and Gen-X picked up more of its ideas from our (more often) Republican dads than we did from our (presumably less vocal) Democratic moms.
Plus, with Gen-X, the whole frame of reference is shifted right by a good bit. I was talking to my aunt a decade ago (she’s pre-boomer, 1939) about W and I said that I actually wouldn’t mind getting another Nixon instead of what we had. She was shocked, couldn’t tell the difference between them. But there I was, with a political memory that went back only to Carter, and from my perspective Nixon was a liar and he wasn’t exactly committed to the theory of democracy and the importance of elections, and he committed a few war crimes, but I’d take that over W because Nixon wasn’t all that plus committed to destroying Medicare and Social Security plus ideologically committed to destroying the environment just to piss the hippies off, and on top of all that absolutely bugfuck insane. W was all of those things.
Although to be fair, Nixon didn’t have to do anything to keep the hippies frothing at the mouth, they had that handled all by themselves, tyvm.
mak
According to the poll on Mr. Doctor’s own page, 68% trust Big Government more, while 32% trust the military more.
As Doctor speculated on his post, “This is the poll question they will never ask you, because your answer might be the wrong one.” Indeed.
Methinks the poll, like the video of Hopey pwning the repubs in their own house, won’t be around much longer.
Ash Can
@batgirl: Oh, fuck everything.
Thoughcrime
DougJ,
It’s so very lonely.
You’re 2000 light years from home.
JimP
The military, at present, is composed, at its highest level, of a very large group of right wing Christians intent on imposing their religious views on the remainder of us not so enlightened citizens. If that is the type of person you truly wish to have governing you and making decisions for you, you should understand that you are asking to live under a regime that does not really tolerate “free thinking.” Government at all levels causes great angst among the governed, but our form of it has survived for a couple of centuries and if we can rid ourselves of the fiction that corporations are “persons” with personal rights, then perhaps the elected representatives may start to pay just a bit more attention to those of us they govern. Let us hope so.
mclaren
The U.S. military is shit. The U.S. military is led at the highest levels by incompetent cowards and manned in the enlisted ranks by rapists and ex-felons and former street gang members. Mid-level officers are abandoning the U.S. army in droves like cats fleeing a burning building.
The U.S. army can’t even win a war against barefoot fifteen-year-old kids armed with bolt-action rifles.
The United States Army is a disgrace and should be disbanded. Based on their past performance, I wouldn’t trust anyone in the American military to empty a boot even if the instructions were printed on the heel.
By contrast, the United States Post Office handles over 667 million pieces of mail per day, 203 billion pieces of mail per year, and correctly delivers 99.99999% of it in a timely fashion at a cheap price. If the United States army were as efficient and as effective as the U.S. post office, America would rule the universe, every terrorist on earth would be dead or in prison, and Osama Bin Laden’s corpse would have been hanging from a lamp post in front of the White House 8 years ago.
That answer your question?
Citizen Alan
@John S.:
We (GenX) are cynical. Very, very cynical. The weaknesses of the Clinton Administration combined with the criminality of the Bush II Administration have persuaded the bulk of my generation that there is simply no possibility of government ever achieving anything that will benefit us and a strong likelihood that it will continue to do things that harm us. Liberalism is based on communitarian impulses, and most of the great communitarian measures of the past have been under assault all our lives.
Clinton and the Republicans conspired to “end Welfare as we know it.” Health care reform, even of the most tepid sort, seems to slip farther and farther away. Social Security is under constant assault and all the measures that have been offered to save it are calculated to preserve its benefits for the generation just ahead of us with deep benefits cuts promised for everyone presently under the age of 65. In short, I think too many GenXers refuse to believe in community because they think community is just a scam run by Boomers to justify saddling GenXers with more unsustainable debt.
Also, a disproportionate number of us were either in the military or have peers who were in the military, and those connections tend to instill a certain jingoistic mindset among those who have either lost friends to military action or seen friends needlessly endangered. I have been routinely horrified by people in my age-group casually suggest nuking large segments of the Arab world. Of course, I also live in North Mississippi which is adds a whole other layer of bullshit to conversations like that.
Those are my kneejerk impression anyway, speaking as a very atypical, borderline Soshulist GenXer.
The Populist
I’m Gen-X, I grew up in very conservative Orange County California and I was once a Repug. Not an ideological one but the guy who thought Dems were pussies.
When I woke up in 2001, I saw an election handed over to a guy who scared the bejesus out of me and I swore I’d give him a chance. He spent his first 7 months basically on vacation and then 9/11 happened.
Then they wanted to go into Iraq, I found I was aligning with liberals and maybe I was one too. The Patriot Act then sealed it.
The Populist
I might also add this…I have been on Facebook for awhile. Finding old school mates, colleagues past and present. I find that many of the people I went to school with (Class of 1987) are either hardcore (CAPITAL H) Christians always preaching hate of liberals, Obama and whatnot or they subscribe to this idea that God is blessing their every move (basically they may not be ideological or hardcore but they speak in ways that always mentions how much God is doing this and that for them).
I see it like this. Jesus existed. He was a great man for helping the poor and downtrodden. From what I have read he never approved of people showing off how Christian they were. He led by example and when he died people made him out to be Superman when he most likely was a man like you and me who helped people.
These people make it seem like Jesus is coming soon on a white horse to kill people like me who refuse to buy into this idea that when I die I go to Heaven, Hell, Xenon (or whatever the Christian Science place is).
DougJ
@Thoughcrime:
I’m glad someone went with a Stones-tinged comment. Thank you.
CalD
I was thinking of something a little more Doorsy:
TooManyJens
Dear the RNC:
Enclosed are the results of a recent poll of self-identified Republicans. Among many other appalling results, it appears that the majority of the members of your party think that the President of the United States might want terrorists to defeat us.
This is utterly inexcusable. Is this who you want to be? You have a responsibility to your country to bring your party back to reality. If you refuse, the rest of us have a responsibility to our country to work for the end of the Republican Party.
//repeat with state Republican Party, Republican Congresscritter, and every other GOP official I can think of who might have any influence. Look, it can’t hurt.
CalD
@TooManyJens: They have a word for that. They think of it as “winning.”
Poicephalus
Over starched is more like it.
sukabi
That was my favorite response to the question, I’ll give it a 8.5 out of 10 on both the “Sarcasm” and “Jesus, you’re a dumbshit” scales of distain.
Cassidy
Not really. I know you’ll find an article where some general or colonel is reported as saying something “fundie”, but that doesn’t prove anything other than one moron had a microphone stuck in his face.
,@mclaren: You used alot of words to say you’re an idiot.
Tim Doctor
Calm down, everyone.
This is a good conversation to have. Many of you have raised excellent points. I will offer a genuine conversation in return.
However…
I never said I wanted the military to take over.
I don’t want a military coup.
I want balance.
I want government to stay within its consitutional boundries.
Because it has not, because they are out of balance w/ the private sector, feeding on it, my general level of trust, with regard to institutions, currently favors the men and women in uniform. I think they respect the Constitution more than our current legislators, or the Republican wads who governed previously.
I think I know your answer to this question, but I’ll ask anyway. Could we agree on one thing? …that we need to cut government spending across the board by 20%? Including the military?
No more tired culture wars from either side. It’s about the spending and the power grabs by both fucking parties.
This will be my message to the Tea Party. Drop the abortion and gay bashing bullshit. Stop the culture wars. Stop with the ‘jesus said’ stuff, and start putting in candidates who will only cut spending.
Respectfully,
Tim Doctor (sans any trace of sarcasm)