I have two big reminders on my refrigerator.
THINK before you speak
Yeah, I know, this is a blog, we don’t need to be helpful or inspiring or kind. Or even constructive.
But we are in crisis, and everyone I know (except for Trumpers) is standing on very shaky ground, and I don’t think we can go wrong thinking about those things right now.
The second reminder is a hand-written note:
The past is the past, it’s what you do now that matters.
We are experiencing catastrophic loss, like the death of a parent, a child, a loved one.
At the same time, we are facing an existential threat.
Not a good combination, and we need our friends and allies now more than ever.
They say that depression is anger turned inward. Is that true? I don’t know. But I do know that this blog is something that many of rely on as part of our support system, so maybe instead of pointing fingers and arguing about who was right and who was wrong and how we got here and whose fault it is, we need to figure out what the fuck we are going to do.
We need to be fighting mad, not feuding and pointing fingers.
I do know that the Democratic Party taking aim at itself is not going to get us anywhere good. As David Anderson might say, figuring out what happened is not a today problem. Today’s problem is what the hell are we going to do to protect ourselves and others as much as we can and get through this apocalypse in the strongest possible position for the next election.
We can say “oh my god, there might not be any more elections”, but we have to prepare ourselves to be in the strongest possible position if there are. Because we will need to win those. And for that we need friends and allies, not former friends and former allies who were driven away by the fitting squads and infighting.
If you’ve lost a parent or a child or a partner or anyone you love, it’s not helpful to dwell on “we should’t have gone to that park” or “I shouldn’t have taken that job that took up too much of my time” or “I shouldn’t have walked down that street”. Or a thousand other things We did fucking go to that park. We did take the fucking job. We did walk down that fucking street.
It’s what we do now that matters.
So what do we do now? Besides putting one foot in front of the other. Besides getting out of bed and feeding our dogs and our kids. Besides doing what we need to survive. Because we have a whole shitload of pain and problems ahead of us, and I don’t see how we get through it if we’re just planting our own gardens or buying a gun and personally preparing to survive the apocalypse.
I have no idea yet what it’s going to look like, but we are going to need each other for collective action.
MobiusKlein
Thank you
J. Arthur Crank
I am just trying to take care of the vulnerable people who are close to me.
Also too: I recently took possession of two vintage power woodworking tools (bench saw and jointer). I am busy fixing them.
The Audacity of Krope
Not a Democrat. Also not a girl, not a robot, and not Janet.
For my part, respect and disrespect are both earned. Favoring one over the other doesn’t seem to pay off for anyone. So respect each other by default, sure. But first, be honest. Letting problems go unaddressed and fester until they come to a head leads to distrust when you raise an issue too late.
Trivia Man
Carry water
Chop wood
That is what i am concentrating on
Bobby Thomson
I sure as shit ain’t haingin\ out with Nina Fuckin Turner – cough – Bluesky- cough
Mr. Bemused Senior
Thank you, WG.
Bemused Senior suffered from depression, undiagnosed but clear to me. I can’t say whether it was anger. Certainly it was painful.
Somehow despite this she was always kind.
Barbara
I feel like our system of government is flawed in part because it doesn’t really give people like AOC the influence they deserve:
Lyrebird
Yep it is a thief! Sorry she and you had that burden.
No the anger-turned-inward hypothesis hasn’t held up, but WaterGirl’s injunction to THINK is good…
Steve LaBonne
Thank you.
Baud
You’re always the light leading the way, WG.
schrodingers_cat
If we don’t introspect what went wrong and ask difficult questions of ourselves we will repeat the same mistakes
I am close to done with this blog and the Democratic party as well. Mostly dropping to lurk mode and voting every election.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Asking difficult questions is more likely than not going to lead to brand new mistakes.
Professor Bigfoot
I’ve always heard it, “Anger is fear’s bodyguard.”
I’m terrified and I’m mightily pissed off about it.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@schrodingers_cat: yes we have to be honest with ourselves and clear-eyed about reality. Not to blame, rather to understand and learn.
Lapassionara
Thanks, WaterGirl.
If any Jackal is in or around the St. Louis area and is interested in a meet up, we can find a time and place for that to happen. I think on-line friends are great, but so are friends you can meet for coffee.
Just a thought.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: So let’s keep repeating the old mistakes.
Ben Cisco
Reposting from Down below:
Posting for proof-of-life purposes.
Been a REALLY long week.
Good news is that both Mama Cisco and my gf are healing and safe (separate medical issues).
Bad news is, well, you know.
At this point I am equal parts grief, bewilderment, and incandescent RAGE.
Sincere THANK YOU to all jackals for all you tried to do.
My country has collectively decided it is too racist, misogynistic, tribal, and STUPID to be governed competently; they’ve decided that the Black party is only suited for ‘black jobs’ including political janitor.
My only regret is that we will all suffer through the results.
Joe and Kamala deserved better, and so did we.
WaterGirl
@Trivia Man:
Quinerly sent this to me yesterday:
schrodingers_cat
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Well I became a citizen so I could vote. I have voted in every election since becoming a citizen. Donated money and am active in local D politics including being a delegate for 4 statewide conventions. I even did some online work to help the Harris campaign when I was in India for my mother’s funeral. I was disappointed by the results not surprised. I could see this trainwreck happening when we pushed Biden out. Talking about this is not regurgitation but a warning not to repeat this same mistake again.
I believe using my voice, feel free to mute me if you don’t want hear what I have to say.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m not suggesting that we shouldn’t look at what went wrong. But we could wait for actual data instead of taking hot takes at face value.
So right now we have bigger fish to fry than SPECULATING.
That’s what I’m saying.
Belafon
@Bobby Thomson: How long has she been there?
WaterGirl
@Bobby Thomson: Did I miss something? Has someone suggested that we make friends with Nina Turner?
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Define hot take. I am analyzing something that has already happened. What fish are we supposed to fry?
Suzanne
@Ben Cisco: Hugs to Mama Cisco, CiscoGF, and you.
Tony G
To upgrade George Clinton’s famous lyric to fit the reality of 2024 … “Think! It is illegal now!”.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: Doesn’t analyzing take data?
All the votes aren’t even counted yet.
Spanky
@J. Arthur Crank: You probably already found this, but
Old Woodworking Machines
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: We have some data. It will be updated in time, but we know a lot already.
Gin & Tonic
I’ll just say that sunset at 4:29 pm sucks bigly.
lowtechcyclist
@Trivia Man:
That’s what they say to do after satori (I’m sure you know that), but I agree that it makes just as much sense in the wake of its opposite.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Lapassionara:
If you pull this off, please keep Water Girl in the loop for general postings. I’d try to come back for that. Go to Ozark’s bar and drink to him many, many times.
twbrandt
All I can do is be kind, gentle, generous, and work as hard as I can for those less privileged than I. The latter will specifically involve donating time and money to food pantries, homeless shelters, and Habitat for Humanity.
laura
I’m spending today writing postcards to my dearest friends to thank them for the relationships we’ve built over time and I’m reminding myself of all the good times we’ve had that shore us up for the hard times we have had and will face again. That’s my garden tending.
Somebody somewhere in the interwebs posted a brief clip of Henry Rollins this last weekend. He advised “quit your whining, it’s punk rock time and Joe Strummer prepared us for this day.” That message may not be for everyone, but it resonates with me. For all the good it will or won’t do, I plan to live a radically joyful life and extend kindness to those I encounter with no expectation of reward or even acknowledgement; so I can look in the mirror and not feel disgust despite this old face staring back at me; and hope that it may be of some benefit to others. I also plan to buy a new dryer now because tariffs.
Belafon
@Baud: Mostly because when someone says “The hard questions” early they usually mean “address my grievances.” Hard questions are easy. Identifying the problems is harder.
Melancholy Jaques
@schrodingers_cat:
Reminds me of this:
Spanky
@Gin & Tonic: Patience! Earliest sunset is only 23 days away (Dec5), and it’s only 10 minutes sooner than today’s sunset. Then afternoons get longer again.
WaterGirl
Is knowing that white women, or hispanic males, young people are what cost us the election going to have any impact at all on what we can and should be doing in the next 6 months to a year?
I think the answer is no.
I’d say what we should be figuring out is how to mitigate the impact of what is coming, and how to protect the people who most need protecting.
Not placing blame.
eemom
It’s getting like Groundhog Day around here.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
@Spanky:
That’s the best comment I’ve seen since last Tuesday.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: You must be traveling somewhere? I must have missed it.
The Audacity of Krope
I’d much rather criticize individual decisions than entire groups of people comprising millions of separate, different decisions.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: We have the data we need to come to the conclusion that the switch from Joe Biden to Kamala Harris did not work.
She lost.
Whether he could have won we don’t know.
lowtechcyclist
@The Audacity of Krope:
@schrodingers_cat:
Well sure. But right now we’re preparing as best we can for what’s going to be happening in ten weeks. Figuring out what mistakes we made that led to our loss a week ago CAN WAIT, and probably needs to. Our attempts at it so far have NOT made things better, IMHO. It seems to have led to senseless arguments among ourselves at a time when we need to be recovering and healing to the extent that we can.
JMG
@WaterGirl: Totally agree. If people need down time to recover their energy and balance, that’s totally OK. But “what ifs” are a drain on both of those things. The goal is to be ready by January 20.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl:
It helps you understand where to concentrate limited resources of time and money.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat:
All true.
But what does that do for us going forward? How does that help us have whatever impact we can on what’s coming?
The Audacity of Krope
I didn’t require preparation; privilege of being gay, single, and childless. But sure, waiting until emotions clear and more info is known is fine. I just don’t want this to be gun control where the “right time” never comes.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne:
For the next election?
Because we have way bigger fish to fry at this point than an election 2 years from now.
Scout211
Thank you, WaterGirl. Nice post and good thoughts.
However, I feel much better as a lurker right now.
I’m not saying anyone here is wrong or shouldn’t say what you are saying. It’s not up to me to manage anyone’s interactions. But I am taking a break from it.
I hope to see ya later, jackals.
The Audacity of Krope
I’m saying, effectively, don’t assign collective blame to groups. Don’t be racist, don’t act like whichever group owed you something, don’t ignore the supporters you had within a group to criticize those who didn’t.
scav
And sometimes the brain can start working on those all so important issues when it’s not busy flapping the lips (and fingers) asking questions (or announcing your preexisting model is confirmed!) etc. In short, Ford Prefect’s second theory:
“If human beings don’t keep exercising their lips, their brains start working.”
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: For our personal interactions, as well.
RaflW
If we want to enjoy a blame game, boy will we have some disasters to point to soon … if this report is true. It is frankly impossible to know until they actually occupy an office chair in the post being discussed, because Trump is notoriously fickle (and stupid). But day-um things are gonna get messy.
In response (and I agree):
Jeffg166
My 89 year old neighbor went on a tirade about WOKE and abortion. He listens to rightwing radio. Gets all his talking point there. He voted for trump. I told him yesterday I hoped he lives long enough to see exactly what he voted for. He’s in a for a real surprise when Project 2025 gets going.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: I am sorry to read that. Your comments are some of my favorites here.
lowtechcyclist
@schrodingers_cat:
I am impressed by the sheer stupidity of this analysis, not to mention its sheer irrelevance. Totally important that our party leaders know never to make that mistake again.
artem1s
We are all in grief. The administration we all dreamed about for months is no more. It is an ex-parrot. Remember the stages of grief.It’s normal to be angry and want to blame someone (Hillary didn’t campaign in MI enough; Jack Smith, Merrick Garland should have made the states take him off the ballot; Harris didn’t hole her mouth right and wore a tan suit when she talked to this or that group).It’s normal to be in denial (the election was stolen; illegals voted; voting machines were hacked).It’s normal to try to bargain or day dream a way out (let’s borrow Obama’s time machine and undo everything that happened back to Nixon; maybe if we’re nicer to the Face Eating Leopards they won’t eat our faces; let’s throw someone else under the bus before they throw us under the bus)It’s super normal to be depressed. Acknowledge it. Ask for help. Help others.Try to recognize what stage you are working through. Do what you have to do to feel safe. It’s fine to withdraw and shelter in.
BUT…
Don’t comply in advance
Resist turning into a Nazi
Don’t help the Nazi’s
Old School
@RaflW:
Someone has to be in charge of swaying to Ave Maria.
The Audacity of Krope
It’s relevant and would have been relevant even if we won.
The party capitulated to bigotry. That was going to be poisoning our culture for years regardless of the outcome of the election.
Lyrebird
@Scout211: Hey Scout211!
Ditto to what WG said.
Best wishes with whatever you end up doing.
No Nym
@Lapassionara: I am not in St. Louis, but I am in Columbia and can get there easily enough. In fact, I will be coming through STL next week on a business trip, so it might even be sooner rather than later if we can coordinate details. Have WaterGirl give you my email address.
Kelly
Someone with “Postcards for Voters” sent Mom a GOTV postcard that arrived after her death. Her final vote was in Oregon’s May Primary. The ballot was rejected by signature match. She’d had a stroke the year before. Her handwriting really was illegible. Everything she voted for won so I never told her, never took her to the county elections office to cure her ballot.
I just want to say receiving the postcard was heartwarming.
TBone
@scav: 👍
Old School
Since this post is about not re-litigating July or playing the blame game…
I’m not sure how to prepare for January. Sure, I know which people in my life will be most vulnerable under Trump, but which ones to prepare for first? Who knows? Hopefully, Team Trump will be incompetent enough to screw up implementation.
Does eliminating the Department of Education require Congress? If so, maybe that project will take long enough to avoid the worst.
TBone
Someone told me the.post here is for those who are not into relitigating and pointing fingers. I was misled!
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
I’m trying to donate what I can to local orgs in my new town that help at risk and homeless people. I m going to try not to spend much on Christmas presents and find them from local small businesses. I have connected my Dem sister in law in Middle Tennessee with like minded people in her are who are doing a meet up in person to figure out what they can do to make a difference. She was feeling very alone and despairing and wanted to not feel alone and useless. It’s not a lot because I am on a limited retiree income but it’s what I can do.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@The Audacity of Krope: So, what if i go ahead and declare you the winner of the game you’re playing. It doesn’t matter a damn. What matters is how we as individuals and as groups prepare for the future. How do we best prepare to protect ourselves, our families, and the potential victims of this eminently fucked up administration that’s coming? Anything else is a waste of effort.
cain
@WaterGirl:
I’m going by the voting patterns. Every generation’s male voted for against us. Every racial demographic voted against us other than black women.
At this very moment, except in the blue states we are powerless.
We’ve been shown the door by the voters and let a conman and his coterie of people who have no idea how to run a govt take over..
In 2 years, they’ll want us to take over and start the same pattern over and over again. I can’t take this seemingly endless pattern going for most of my life. It’s killing me.
We are not rewarded for doing a good job. We are asked to continue to work our asses off and not trusted with power.
So many of you have taken the time to give money, put postcards, and reaching out and giving your all.
We had a stellar candidate and running mate.
Whatever data you’re getting, the other side is not running on data. They are running on feels. Right now, they aren’t even happy that they won – they want revenge. They want payback.
So yes, if you want to look at data and patterns and what went wrong, feel free. But my bet is that you aren’t going to get much when the other side is just running on whatever is pissing them off. We’ve been outgunned, and out-maneuvered.
The dog has caught the car.
Let them stew for awhile. It’s time we not participate and build our support networks and manage the chaos underground and out of sight. Non-cooperation.
My plan is to succeed. While the red rural folks circle the drain because we know that all these policies are going to hurt them more. Hopefully, in the end, what is done, can be undone but not today, and not in 4 years.
ETA – there is absolutely no need to re-litigate July. We have no data to prove anything would happen one way or another. What has always been clear is the pattern is the same. GOP breaks things, Dems fixes things enough for the GOP to come back in.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Oh oh oh, PA Senate update:
49% to 48.5%.
Around 35K votes the difference with around 116K left to count.
Anything under 0.5% is a recount. We’re in Franken territory!
If Casey pulls this off and the AZ results, does that mean a 50-50 split in the Senate? Not that that matters since VP Vance (I just threw up a little bit in my mouth typing that) will have the deciding vote.
I’ll admit, if Casey ends up winning, that’s another rather big bright spot for us. Just trying to make lemonade outta lemons.
George
Any discussion of what happened in July should include mentioning that the same media which would have continued to criticize Biden for being old had he not withdrawn from the race ended up giving Trump a complete pass via their sanewashing of his nonsense.
If, after Biden withdrew, the media had turned their attention to getting Trump to drop out, we would be living in a very different reality at the moment. Unfortunately, media complicity in Trump’s election is not given the amount of attention that it should. It’s like a losing coach explaining why his/her team did so poorly without mentioning that the referees favored the opponent. I’m sure that we will see similar results in subsequent elections as long as the media are allowed to play favorites.
The Thin Black Duke
@lowtechcyclist: Rude.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: much appreciated, thank you!
rk
I’m kind of getting sick of listening to how we should try and mitigate the bad. The black women I work with have absolutely no interest in helping anyone. I’ll mitigate things for myself and my loved ones. Now the onus is on the people who voted for Trump to figure out how to deal with the consequences.
Citizen Alan
@Mr. Bemused Senior: My father suffered from some combination of undiagnosed depression and anxiety disorder. I’d always thought it was the former, but now I think it was more probably the latter. I remember regularly getting up in the middle of the night for something and finding him sitting alone in his favorite recliner in a room with the lights out just brooding.
Anxiety disorders mean a never ending low-level fear that something has gone wrong or is about to. As bad as the next four years will be, it is infinitely worse for people who cannot help but obsess over how bad it could be.
No Nym
@cain: “Right now, they aren’t even happy that they won – they want revenge. They want payback.”
I really like your entire comment here, but this stands out for me. I think MAGA wants us to march in the streets or fight with them somehow, to give them a target for their rage now that they have won and are slowly beginning to understand what that means. Withdrawing from the fight and letting it play out seems like the smart play to me. They will have nothing left to do but purity-test each other and trying to outdo each other as they kiss Trump’s ass.
JML
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I wish I was wrong, but we’re not really in Franken territory yet.
and even if Casey somehow survives, the Senate is still gone with Tester and Brown falling.
TBone
Democratic Underground:
Some history:1933 diplomatic cable from the american embassy in Berlin to FDR
It is our job to prepare, with clear heads and eyes wide open, to survive, to thrive, and to unite with others who can withstand when we tire.
Unity is the only way.
We have history to learn from: get busy.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Old School:
It’s far, far easier to simply nominate a DeVos 2.0 to head it, then have Congress cut funding to the bone for it.
KatKapCC
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t think that is a fair leap to make.
She did not lose because of her. She lost because of us.
(Not *us* here. The general us.)
Ksmiami
@cain: Red State idiots chose ignorance and hatred. And when they succumb to the Pandora’s box of nasties, I don’t want to clean up after them and make nice. I want them gone. And every day, I want Democratic leaders and writers to blame them for the massive fall we are about to take. Everyday, everywhere.
Melancholy Jaques
@WaterGirl:
I’m for organizing and planning for the midterms.
Republicans don’t do as well when that asshole is not on the ballot. We have to take advantage of what means are available to us.
cmorenc
There will be future elections that are nominally fair in form, winner determined by legitimate, accurate vote count. The problem will be election voting regulations designed to disproportionately handicap D turnout and absentee/vote-by-mail.
Example from 2024 in NC: partisan state election board disallowed college students from using digital student IDs even if they had photos – had to bring hard-copy student ID, which on many campuses eg UNC-Chapel Hill students may have in a drawer…somewhere, or else go to trouble to get a replacement, but for daily student life everyone uses digital student ID and the hard copy is a functionally a relic of the past.
WaterGirl
@TBone: The title apparently should have been:
This post is for people who do not want to re-litigate July or play the blame game.
instead of
If you don’t want to re-litigate July or play the blame game, this post is for you.
I did not expect half of the comments to be in defense of re-litigating and playing the blame game. Live and learn.
Salty Sam
As you say, they are running on feels- that is correct.
Those feels are fueled by a massive disinformation campaign designed to put them and us at each other’s throats. And it is working.
Until we figure out how to counter this attack, we will continue to run around in circles, blame one another, and lose.
I wish I knew the answer, but it’s gonna take someone a lot smarter than me.
Kelly
@Citizen Alan: Carly Simon “That the way it’s supposed to be”
My father sits at night with no lights on
His cigarette glows in the dark
youtube.com/watch?v=Ux7HgO9QhAc&ab_channel=CarlySimon
Old School
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
But if Congress needs to vote to eliminate Special Education funding, I’m not sure the votes are actually there for that.
cain
@No Nym:
The white house and everything else will be nothing but chaos as extreme corruption takes over.
Even if they do project 2025, and they replace competent people with lazy ass Trumpers – the federal govt will not be able to respond to anything with any level of competency. FEMA will not help at all. Americans are used to a certain level of competency that will no longer be there.
the competency will be in the blue states. We have control there and we will make them into economic and freedom power houses.
KatKapCC
There was something I was already planning to do, but now am more motivated to do it.
I’m going to send thank you letters to Joe and Kamala, in recognition of their service to this country, and with apologies for what this country did to both of them in return.
WaterGirl
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: It will indeed be great news if we keep Bob Casey in PA.
But the Senate won’t be 50-50.
WV went from Manchin (D) -> R
MT went from Tester (D) -> lying piece of racist shit (R)
OH went from Sherrod Brown (D) -> R
Salty Sam
V V Putin wants us to be in the streets fighting with each other. And he has fueled their rage with disinformation.
ETA- actually, we don’t need to be fighting in the streets. The level of division in this country *right now* is exactly what he wants.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
Sorry. We’ll get there, but I guess it’s going to take more than a week.
TBone
@JML: I am still here, standing…
aarpethel.com/fulfillment/anne-lamott-reflects-on-turning-70-and-what-lifes-all-about
Anne is a wonderful Helper.
prostratedragon
@WaterGirl: Almost microcosmic or something.
Sister Golden Bear
@TBone: I was hopeful too. Because personally, I could really use a thread that focuses on how to keep going, how to survive, during coming the next days, weeks and months.
But it seems like every damn thread right now turns into relitigating the election and circular firing squads.
There will be plenty of time, once we get all the election data, to figure out what to do for the next elections. So maybe we can at least have a few threads right now that can focus on other things.
ETA: Thanks for trying @WaterGirl:
George
@TBone:The cable you cited in your comment gets at what I have believed for years now–that the modern GOP is led by a psychopath unable to understand basic human emotions and whose only goals are self-aggrandizement and hurting other people for kicks, and not necessarily in that order.To succeed, every psychopath needs its minions–or flying monkeys–as well as a significant number of people who are just too damned dense to understand what is being done, and what they risk losing by being dense.Normal human beings–unless they have dealt first hand with one–cannot really understand what motivates psychopaths. With people like we see now in the GOP, madness is its own end.
cain
@Ksmiami:
We’re going to have to steel ourselves but hopefully the economy tanking and them struggling to fix it will take all their energy.
narya
One thing I would like to see: as new plants open, or new roads built, or bridges or roads are repaired, all with funds from one of Biden’s pieces of legislation, I want someone to purchase a billboard nearby noting that (a) it’s there because of Biden AND (b) the local representative and/or senator voted AGAINST that legislation. “This plant was enabled by funds from Joe Biden’s Infrastructure Act. Your (Rep and/or Senator) voted AGAINST that legislation and did not want this plant to be built/road fixed/bridge fixed.”
ED to add more stuff at the end.
TBone
@Sister Golden Bear: hugs!
TBone
@George: I am grateful that we can still learn, and love, and have history that teaches us how to survive this.
SAVE THE BOOKS
rikyrah
People talk about the Angry MAGA Winners.
Why are they so angry?
First of all, they thought that we would be sobbing out somewhere.
When Black folk looked at those results and went a collective…. ” Aight…bet.”
It’s still unnerving them.
Then, there are those with MAGA relatives, who have said, ‘ We’re done’.
They are whining all over the internet about how the Democrats are ‘letting politics ruin relationships’
Then, they are really upset when folks look them dead in their faces and say ” I hope you get everything you voted for. ”
No Nym
@cain: Agree. It is an act of self-preservation to just let it happen at this point, and to turn our attention to protecting ourselves and our resources where we can. We can collectively “gray rock” them for a time, and maybe start having conversations again when they are wondering how it all went so wrong for them.
oldgold
For me, humor, or at least what I consider humor, has been the best balm.
RaflW
@WaterGirl: And even after the votes are counted, we won’t know some of the bigger questions in good detail for a while, like modeling actual Dem turnout, figuring out where/how ‘independents’ swung and where they split-ticket voted, things like that. Exit polls have some uses, but lead to a fair bit of hot trash, too.
Meanwhile, I think our top priority is building local networks of connection and support.
I’ll add, too, that while I think it is incumbent on us to seek to protect elections as much as possible, I find the broader framing of “OMG elections are ending” as deeply problematic.
It’s accepting the frame on the right that they’re going to succeed at trashing the systems. DO NOT GIVE GROUND. (Not saying you have, WG. This is a broadcast plea.)
cain
@Salty Sam:
Our leadership has not addressed any of this. This is their fault. How long have they known that spanish language radio has been filled with pro-Trump messaging? Over a decade I would imagine.
How many years have we discussed the leadership not addressing disinformation campaigns? They are uncomfortable. They rather be policy nerds, they rather try to prove through good govt policies that are side works. Those policies work, but voting public don’t give a shit.
When you lose an election so badly when the economy is doing good, and job reports after job reports report positive jobs and you lost? YOU LOST. You’re playing backgammon while the country is busy doing something else. You didn’t even lose to someone competent – aman who doesn’t even respect his own voters! Who leaves them stranded. Trump is a symbol for them.
Your entire approach needs to change completely. Stop telling the public about policies. It has never worked.
Prometheus Shrugged
@Suzanne: Agreed. As one piece of anecdata, I was talking with my lefty neighbor (almost, but, not quite, horseshoe left) who did a solid two months of phone banking for Rashida Tlaib. My neighbor said she knew Michigan was trouble because otherwise solid D voters told her explicitly and repeatedly that they were not going to vote for Harris no matter what. There would have been no amount of reasoning that would have convinced those types. (And no, they wouln’t have voted for Biden either…) So might as well acknowledge that loss and focus efforts elsewhere. Tlaib won with 73% of the vote.
TBone
@rikyrah: “cry harder, bitchez.”
I’m so glad I’m not on social media, what a shitshow.
Planting my 1930s style Victory Garden with some music 🎶
m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3pzqJ7HlH8
Tell it, Bishop!
WaterGirl
@Sister Golden Bear: I tried today, and I will try again tomorrow. And keep trying.
Citizen Alan
@schrodingers_cat: Right now, I have come to the conclusion that it would not have mattered whatever we did. Replace Joe with Kamala and we energize racists and misogynists to vote for Trump. Replace Joe with anyone else and we have a divisive mini-primary plus we take huge loses among black women. Keep Joe and we lose people who think (incorrectly, IMO) that Joe is too old and senile to be President because the MSM holds him to a different standard than Diaper Donald.
I think the cold hard reality that we all must face and adapt to is that there is nothing different we could have done that would have led to different results because the majority of voters either outright want to live in a fascist, white supremacist, Christianist theocracy or else don’t give a shit because they don’t think it will affect them. This is what they want (or else are too disengaged and insulated to worry about) , and there are more of them than there are of us. And I have been banging the drum for years that whether we win or lose the election, we will have to grapple with the fact that nearly half the country is effectively pro-Nazi.
TBone
@oldgold: 💜😍 please be by my side here every damn day!
TBone
@WaterGirl: thank you joyful warrior!
TBone
digbysblog.net/2024/11/12/take-a-deep-breath-3/
schrodingers_cat
@The Thin Black Duke:If they have to resort to namecalling they can’t argue on the merits.
rivers
@WaterGirl: Thank you. Every election takes place in a very specific environment much of which has changed from the election 4 years before, not to mention the fact that the demographic changes — a whole new group ages into the electorate and another group dies off – and then there are changes in the media ecology which we cannot predict. There is so much we cannot predict and I think there’s limited value in figuring out the answers to the problems of this election which might not apply at all to the next, although I realize for some people it’s essential. I think we’re all in various stages of grief (p.s. they do not happen in order nor separately) and we need to cope in our own ways. As someone who lost a spouse of 30 years, I just want to share the insight I had within a couple of weeks of his death. There is no way back to the old life. The task is to figure out the new one.
prostratedragon
@Kelly: Lars Thorwald
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
Agree. It frustrates me when people cling to the idea that we’re some clear majority that is simply turned off by messaging imperfections.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah:
Agree. But also additional factor is what Lincoln called out in his Cooper Union speech, about the only thing that would satisfy Southerners:
They’re sore winners in part because we’re not suddenly “calling it right” and placing ourselves avowedly with them.
eclare
@oldgold:
I asked in another thread, what the hell happened with that poll? Why was it so wrong?
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
Agree. It’s probably our best weapon going forward. Hold true to the fact that there are only four lights.
Sister Golden Bear
@WaterGirl: Thanks. Much appreciated.
narya
Because they think they are OWED. They want those of us who opposed that whole fascist, racist project to admit that we’re WRONG, that THEY ARE RIGHT.
Nope
ETA: Or what Sister Golden Bear and Lincoln said.
Old School
@eclare:
Ann Selzer said she was going to try to figure out the answer to that, but no explanations have been given yet.
Citizen Alan
@lowtechcyclist:
What specifically was the mistake? Pressuring a somewhat elderly president to step aside so that his younger VP could run in his stead? How often is that scenario going to come up? There is arguably a lesson in not voting for an older candidate in the Primaries, but Joe won fair and square and (aside from the hopeless Gordian Knots of Gaza and Ukraine), we have all been pleased with his administration. There is, perhaps, an argument that Joe should have announced in 2023 that he would not run for a second term so we could have an open primary — in which case Kamala would have won and we’d be right back here, or she would have lost in what would certainly be a divisive primary. Or perhaps if he’d stepped down for health reasons a year or so ago and given President Harris time to define herself, but by that point we’re dealing with an episode of “What If …?” that doesn’t even have any superheroes.
I see no compelling reason to think that there was anything we could have done better to overcome the rising strength of American Fascism and a media apparatus so blatantly pro-GOP that a prominent journalist can lead the “Joe Must Step Down” charge while sending nudes to RFK, Jr.
Tim in SF
A variation I heard:
Make sure whatever you say is at least two of these three: kind, honest, necessary.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Lapassionara: I’m in the St. Louis area.
scav
@narya: Oh NO! Their enemy within is unfriending them!?
TBone
They are NOT ‘half the country.’ Noping out now.
lowtechcyclist
@The Audacity of Krope:
Maybe I’m slow today, but exactly how, pray tell, was replacing a white man with a mixed race woman “capitulat[ing] to bigotry”? Gotta admit you lost me here.
cain
@Sister Golden Bear:
Sorry about that. I spent the entire long weekend disconnected from the news and social media. So that I can focus on my well being.
Places like Balloon Juice is filled with people who clearly are absorbing things at different rates and so not always easy to get people to focus on positive things.
I’ve left the election in the past. I don’t want to worry about “woulda, shoulda” – the American people had the opportunity to do the right thing. They picked a man who lazed his way into campaigning – doing events with less than 1000 people at times, frequently incoherent and rambling.
I don’t know how to protect to protect our LBGTQ+ people. I trust black folks to figure it out, they never stopped figuring it out. The rest of us? We’re going to have find ways to support each other.
We do need to be clear that we blame the Dem leadership for this.
eclare
@Old School:
Thanks! Keep us posted.
Old School
@lowtechcyclist: Presumably the bigotry is age-related.
lowtechcyclist
@rivers:
Sorry for your loss, but thanks for the words of wisdom.
The Audacity of Krope
@Old School: Sure, the fuck, was. The gender and racial bigotry was four years ago.
Personally I can’t wait to be told by everyone who knows better all through 2028; we need a young, white, straight, male Christian with no independent thought.
Omnes Omnibus
Well, this thread went sideways pretty fast. In some ways, I am not surprised. Everyone is angry. Lots of people on a hair trigger. Last night, I was told that I was being condescending for telling Goku that he might need to get some help because he got in trouble for snapping at someone at work over politics. I didn’t say that he shouldn’t be mad. I said he may need help so that he doesn’t lose his job if he is that close to the edge. The first order of business for defeating the fascists is not to lay them make you destroy yourself. If you need help, get it. If you need a break from this site or the whole internet, take it. We can’t win if we beat ourselves before we start. We need to pick our battles. Defend people who need defending. Otherwise, don’t let them see that they bother you. Fuck ‘em.
oldgold
@eclare: I don’t know, but I heard she caused so much heartburn for Dems last week that they have named a medication after her.
Trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic: 4:55 here and yeah, hate it. Just leave DST in place and be done with it. Couldn’t care less if Indiana and Arizona want to play or not.
BlueGuitarist
“Is it necessary?” is why I hit “clear comment” more often than post.
usually post when I forget to consider whether it is necessary
Or right now (somehow a chunk of time just disappeared)
Anyhoo
Remember Jan 6
we all know,
4 years ago when rich white guy lost by
a similar electoral vote margin and about twice as many popular votes
most of his party lined up to repeat his lies,
treat him as the presumptive nominee,
and then tried to rewrite January 6.
Between now and 1/6 or 1/20
instead of blaming Kamala for what went wrong based on preliminary data,
I hope some of us
who don’t think fascist thuggery is normal/desirable,
will note the similarity in electoral performance,
& emphasize what Kamala is doing right,
which every patriotic American and decent person knows is right —
not lying,
not sending a mob of violent followers to assault police and shit on the Capitol and Constitution,
not trying to create fake electors,
not pretending that the Vice President gets to decide the Electoral Vote —
and make an effort not to let 1/6 disappear down the memory hole/get completely rewritten.
Wapiti
@Kelly: My Dad’s got dementia; I asked county elections last year if I should cancel his registration and they said as long as he can vote, let him. Here in WA state there can be two witness signatures on the outside envelope of the mail-in ballot, so we do that because his handwriting is pretty well gone.
He did vote this election, but couldn’t figure out the various referendums so left them blank. He did use the guide sent to him by his local Democratic Party group. (He did miss one of the candidates, but I didn’t point it out, I let him vote as best he could.)
Citizen Alan
@rikyrah: I will not have a Trump voter in my life. If there are people I have to deal with who I suspect are Trump voters, I will resolutely refuse to discuss politics with them so I can maintain the illusion. But anyone who openly is a Trumpist (which includes most of my remaining family), I will never forgive. I will hate the MAGAs from beyond the grave.
RevRick
I just got back from the weekly meeting of a pericope Bible study group (me the UCC clergy and the rest Lutheran colleagues), and we began by talking about our shock and grief about the outcome. And we asked ourselves what can we do going forward. The irony was we’re discussing the texts for Christ the King Sunday, which all raised the question of how do we live in a world that often spirals towards death. November 5th certainly feels like an occasion where death has won.
In common usage apocalypse has come to mean disaster, but it literally comes from the word meaning revelation or disclosure, and our texts were from Daniel, Revelation and the Gospel of John, where Jesus is questioned by Pilate. And underlying these texts was the twin messages that despite the way the present world is constructed there remains the hope of a transformed world based not on divisions of class, race, and gender, not on violence, but on a love that seeks justice and peace and hope for others.
So, I want to declare that I demand nothing from all of you, because all I want is to give you every good thing in this life. If you want to disrespect me, ridicule me, ignore me, even if you wish me dead, I am okay with that. I let go of any claims on all of you.
All I ask is for you to tell me what I can do to increase your joy.
Sister Golden Bear
@cain: I was largely offline the past week as well to focus on my well-being too.
At the moment, I’m focused on something Brene Brown referred to as “micro-dosing hope” (Instagram link for the full version):
Albeit with the “put your own oxygen mask on first” caveat. For me, it’s taking steps try to protect myself, e.g. getting my passport renewed now (instead of two years) and hoping the Project 2025 won’t actually revoke trans people’s existing passports that use their current name and gender. I can’t control whether the latter will happen, but at least I can try to avoid renewal-related problems.
hitchhiker
Maybe we could look at the (only?) state in the country that moved left between elections.
What happened in WA that didn’t happen elsewhere?
KatKapCC
@The Audacity of Krope: I’m confused by this:
When Biden and Harris won? Do you mean because the nominee ended up being a white man?
But also, are you saying you don’t think racism and sexism had anything at all to do with Harris losing?
I’m honestly asking because I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or what you really mean.
Trollhattan
@Citizen Alan: Pretty much this.
They memory-holed covid, they memory-holed the Inflation Reduction Act, they memory-holed it was VLAD who invaded Ukraine, not Joe Fuckin’ Biden, they memory-holed the huge market gains and job gains of the last two years.
This was a “throw the bums out” election and that’s that.
oldgold
Alka – Selzer
Steve LaBonne
I usually appreciate Josh Marshall as a voice of sanity and he is exactly that here.
Soprano2
I don’t disagree with this. From what I’ve been hearing and listening to this week from different sources, there isn’t one easy answer to why this happened, but many answers depending on who you’re talking about. I’m planning to write something about it here in the next day or two. From what I’ve been reading too many Dem pundits are already falling back on their preconceived notions that if only we weren’t so “woke” we would have won, which from what I’ve heard so far is completely wrong. That was a miniscule part of why people voted the way they did, at least according to people who actually do focus groups regularly with real voters. I’m worried that if the Democratic Party isn’t smarter than that they’ll learn the wrong lessons.
Kelly
@Wapiti: Mom was together enough to know how she wanted to vote. She had me fill in the bubbles on the ballot so the marks would be within the lines. She enjoyed the moment of normalcy when her health and mind were declining quickly.
The Audacity of Krope
When only white men were seriously considered for the primary.
They certainly did. But I’m talking internally within the Democrats. How they manifested within our primary and other internal politics.
Four years ago we just had to nominate Biden because no one will accept black people and/or women. This year we just had to dump Biden because no one will vote for an old man. Maybe we should just stop worrying about what others might accept and have some goddamn integrity.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
That translates into “letting diametrically opposed sets of values ruin a relationship.” Funny how that works.
KatKapCC
@The Audacity of Krope: Okay, I agree that, while I liked Biden, bigotry absolutely played a part in him becoming the nominee out of the original field of candidates.
But those same bigotries were also at play this year, against Harris, as well as the ageism against Biden.
Citizen Alan
@Trollhattan: You forgot what I consider the most important on: the Afghanistan withdrawal. Negotiated by Trump in a manner deliberately designed to hamstring his successor by not leaving enough troops in place. Over 100k people flown out in the space of a week. Casualties limited to a dozen despite the fact that, again thanks to Trump, the Taliban fighters heavily outnumbered US troops.
If that withdrawal had been handled by Trump half as well, he would have been hailed as Churchill reborn. But instead, the blood-gargling psychopaths in the MSM (led by the utterly vile Peter Baker and Susan Glasser) made it into an albatross around Joe’s neck. His approval ratings never recovered from the “failed Afghanistan withdrawal.”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Steve LaBonne:
Good piece, thanks for the freebie.
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
That’s where the lack of a noise machine on our side really first hurt us. It was all downhill after that.
Soprano2
@Scout211: Please take care of yourself. I think of you often because we’re in much the same type of situation. I was thinking a couple of days ago that since I’ve had to deal with my husband’s dementia I haven’t also had to deal with TCFG being president. It’s a lot of stress.
KatKapCC
@lowtechcyclist: I mean…if someone has a politics of hate and spite and cruelty, then yeah, that’s gonna ruin a relationship.
It’s so weird to me that people think we should be friends with people we despise because they despise us for our very identities. If you get a new neighbor and he’s constantly blasting music late at night, running power tools early in the morning, tossing his garbage over the fence into your yard, letting his dog shit on your property, ripping out the shrubs you planted along the property line, stealing your holiday decorations, and sometimes just coming to your front door to scream slurs and obscenities at you…you gonna make friends with that neighbor? Probably not!!!
eclare
@oldgold:
Hahaha…had not heard that.
eclare
@RevRick:
That’s beautiful, thank you.
Soprano2
@Old School: If it was established by Congress passing a law, then yes it would take Congress to undo it.
Ceci7
@No Nym:
Agreed – gray rocking is a very useful strategy. I’m going to be extra mindful of how I spend my attention and energy and money. I’m fortunate to live in a progressive city in a blue state: I can increase my participation in the existing, well-established mutual aid organization, and support other existing community orgs. I can and will finally get serious about taking control over my social and other media consumption: it’s time to focus on people IRL. I’ll keep caregiving for my elderly mom (and frankly hope she doesn’t live another 10 years) and do my best to protect my finances so that I can help my sister and niece, who are much more vulnerable to economic bullshit and threats to the Dept. of Ed., the ACA, and the ADA. I just learned the local Strong Towns chapter is having an in-person event tonight and I’m looking forward to attending. My city recently finalized a very cool plan to support pollinators and I’ll try to organize interested folks from my garden club to support the plan’s recommendations. And I’ll keep reading BJ!
Rusty
@J. Arthur Crank: Restoring vintage tools is very cool. If you run out of projects I have an old Powermatic 14 bandsaw from the mid 60’s or earlier that a friend gave me and I need help getting back in order.
frosty
@Scout211: So long, and I hope to see you later. I’m trying to limit the number of comments I read. A liberal helping of pie is making that easier.
LAC
@rk:
Yep – the leap to an almost Monty Pythonesque response “Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who” and gloss over the demographics and let’s get to work is probably why black women are not interested in doing much and tending to ourselves.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@KatKapCC: Krope is not a Democrat. Krope is a horseshoe left 💣 thrower.
WereBear
@Ben Cisco: Hey, we were asking about you! Glad to hear.
DougL
@Baud:
For me this is THE key takeaway. We are not a majority. We are the minority. We have to be twice as smart and work three times as hard to win. We’ve had the arrogance that our side is not only right but a substantial majority. It’s allowed people to play silly political games (like the Arabs in Dearborn imho) thinking they’d be safe to make their grand gestures. We now know differently. I’m going to follow political leaders who seem to understand this point. Because it means they understand the country they want to lead. Too many Dems have not.
Thats why you trust Black women. Not because they’re all saints or political geniuses. Because they understand that essential reality and (even more importantly) act based on that understanding. Wisdom.
eclare
@Citizen Alan:
Yep. After that he was never above 50%.
The Audacity of Krope
Islamophobia came out to play among the Democrats this year too, hidden under the guise of anti-anti-Semitism.
Layer8Problem
@lowtechcyclist: Not a useful response. Have you won here?
The Audacity of Krope
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Half right, I’m neither of those things.
Citizen Alan
@The Audacity of Krope: Um, no? The candidates in the 2020 Dem primary who made it to Iowa were:
Joe Biden. Won.
Bernie Sanders. Was only a force because of the strength of his cult and, IMO, Russian interference.
Tulsi Gabbard. Nuff said.
Elizabeth Warren. Serious candidate. Dismissed as a Socialist by the MSM and most voters.
Michael Bloomberg. Chased out of primary by Liz Warren.
Amy Klobushar. Serious candidate.
Pete Buttigieg. Serious candidate. “White male” card invalidated by being gay. Also, highest office was Mayor.
Tom Steyer. Who?
Deval Patrick. Black man.
Michael Bennet.
Andrew Yang. Nuff said.
Six of 11 were women or people of color. Seven of 11 if you count being gay as a minority.
Looking back over the list, I think our biggest problem is how weak our bench has been. Deval Patrick was the only Dem governor who could stage a (halfway) serious Presidential run.
frosty
Why did you come to Casablanca?
For the waters.
But Casablanca is in the desert.
I was misinformed.
catclub
@schrodingers_cat:
If the King James English is good enough for Jesus, its good enough for me.
Jackie
I take this as good news! The evil Alito isn’t going to aid In TCFG’s SC goals:
After Alito’s wife hinted “they couldn’t wait to leave this foolishness” – paraphrased – during the infamous flags brouhaha, I really expected Alito to resign soon after Jan 20.
For once I support Alito’s decision and hope Thomas follows suit!
prn
@No Nym: I agree. Best to just hang back right now and let the chaos corps wear themselves out for a while
lowtechcyclist
@The Audacity of Krope:
You mean when the black women of South Carolina put him out in front in the race for the nomination?
Yeah, tell me again what a bunch of irremediable bigots they were.
RevRick
@eclare: You’re welcome
Baud
@Jackie:
Are we taking their word on things now?
TBone
@RevRick: I just yessed back in here because of you. I’m very grateful for your presence.
Sharing a PSA about Bill Murray and much more for our “taking a break” times when we need to recharge our batteries:
link.chtbl.com/talking-pictures?lid=8dpp9alt9wvo
Bill Murray is first out the gate! Link to listen to Bill at very bottom of page.
WereBear
Some data is in. Within hours of the election being called, people were searching for “change my vote”, “what is tariffs?”, and people go to work and discover the company won’t have a holiday bonus, “we have fill warehouses before the tariffs happen.”
And in a prior thread, a Jackal was confronted by a co-worker, expecting comfort about her worries now that she did vote for tRump… so why did she?
Find Out is in season!
frosty
@WaterGirl: Good try though. I don’t think the title would have made a difference to your readership.
RinaX
@Citizen Alan: This is kind of where I am. I’m fine with not relitigating this summer, though I will note that those of us angry with the switch then were also told we had to “wait” to express that frustration.
As someone else noted earlier, I’m only worrying about me and mine. I don’t have the energy or bandwidth to confront years of ignorance and misinformation. I will let it all fail, protect my family as well as I can, and be there to take advantage of the fallout with my vote in every instance.
narya
@Jackie: Meh; I’m sure they can both be bribed into retiring by their emotional support billionaires.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
I haven’t watched any cable news since last Monday.
I don’t have any answers for you.
I don’t need to litigate the election.
Kamala Harris lost because she was a BLACK WOMAN.
Period.
No bullshyt about her being too left.
Or, what she should have covered.
She was a Black Woman, and some part of that– the Black or the Woman part, was a bridge too far for some.
And, for those….I hope they get everything they deserve.
Joy in FL
@Sister Golden Bear: Thank you for the Brene Brown quote. (comment 140)
This thread isn’t exactly what WaterGirl intended, but there are parts that reflect hope and offer kindness. Yours does that for me.
WereBear
@rk:
I agree. Let them stew while we gird our loins or something. We have a much better idea of what might happen than they do, so at least little will surprise us.
For Trumpers, it is already one bad thing after another. Game consoles will go up 40%!
Citizen Alan
@The Audacity of Krope: Also…
Four years ago, we nominated Biden because he got the most votes and took the lead after winning SC on the strength of black voters, the same voters that the Sanders crowd said shouldn’t count as much as the votes of young white people in blue states. And he picked a black woman as his running mate despite the fact that no one will accept black people and/or women.
And while I was on the “Keep Joe” side of that interminable debate, I am honest enough to admit that the problem wasn’t “Joe is old” but rather “Joe appears frail and infirm to the point that it raises questions about his physical and mental ability to do the job,” which is a different issue. If the Joe Biden from the SOTU had shown up for the debate and cleaned Trump’s clock, I think events might have played out very differently. Or maybe not, given everything else going on.
Belafon
@lowtechcyclist: We had to nominate Biden because a large chunk of the primary voters were going to select the other old guy, and he wouldn’t have united the party.
lowtechcyclist
@Layer8Problem:
You’re right, I suppose. But it really was breathtakingly stupid.
And given that her whole point was that we need to understand what we did wrong so we don’t make the same mistakes the next time, well…
gene108
I’ve posted this before, but Republicans have built themselves large structural advantages in being able to win elections via right-wing media, billionaires with an axe to grind to keep funding operatives, and finally to their ability to appeal to the largest demographic in the country, ie white people.
This election those structural advantages converged to create wedge issues – trans rights, “woke” books in public and school libraries, and right-wing media* being able to define Biden’s term in office – that required a politician as talented as Bill Clinton or Obama to overcome.
It shifted a lot of the national attention to whether we should have the graphic novel “Gender Queer” in libraries versus other issues. At the end of the day most people are not bothered about things that do not directly affect them. Gay marriage became legal. People approved of it because it didn’t change a damn thing in their daily lives.
I don’t know how to communicate to people abstract issues that will take years to make an impact, like global warming or the benefits of anything that takes long term planning, which is what the IRA and CHIPS Act do.
There’s a gap between what Democratic activists think is important and their ability to tie it to how it will benefit people’s daily lives.
*For reasons I do not understand, the MSM took the collapse of the U.S. backed Afghanistan government and chaotic withdrawal personally. It was like Biden peed in their corn flakes. I don’t get why they took it so personally.
eclare
@WereBear:
Sounds like the people who voted Leave in the Brexit election, then once Leave won, they googled “what does it mean to Leave the EU?”, etc.
lowtechcyclist
@frosty:
My mom was an old movie junkie, and she loved that bit of dialogue, quoted it dozens of times in my hearing over the years. Almost as often as “your winnings, sir.”
TBone
@WaterGirl: nevertheless, we’ll PERSIST!!! 💙💜💙
Layer8Problem
@lowtechcyclist: You got an opportunity to say “stupid” a second time. We’re jackals, that’s what we do.
trnc
There is always naturally plenty of talk after a loss like this about how stupid voters are, but I think we have the opposite problem; we think the average voter will figure things out. While there are stupid people out there, many are woefully uninformed. That is obviously no surprise, either, and the media have a great deal to do with that, but democrats really need to find a way to get actual information out there.
That starts by not rolling over on anything. For example, I was pretty irritated when inflation started being reported every day with zero pushback from democrats on what the primary drivers of inflation were. Some of it was due to the democrats’ spending bills, but there’s no reason democrats couldn’t have been out there pointing out that it started under Trump and that infrastructure SHOULD have been done under Trump. That would have spread a lot of the money over several more years. And, of course, the price gouging that contributed.
It also doesn’t hurt to point out that policies designed to help various groups DO also benefit white men, etc. It’s time to stop letting repubs claim that they have the upper hand on law and order or any other issue, with any demographic, etc.
prn
@cain: I agree, it seems like we just keep doing the same things harder. Harris’s campaign broke away from this somewhat with the turn towards nontraditional media, but 100 days may have been too short to have an impact
I’d like to see a low key, long term messaging effort. Not sure what the best way forward would be though. Not copying what the right has done, but something that comes across as authentic, without sacrificing people or principles
I
Phylllis
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: A glimmer of optimism I have is that many of the formula programs such as Title I and Title IV are really popular with Congress. For example, Trump’s budgets in his previous term routinely zeroed out funding for Title IV and Congress ignored that completely and gave the program funding increases each year.
Citizen Alan
@Belafon: I have a lot of issues with Bernie Sanders, but a big one is how between 2016 and 2020, he made absolutely no effort to put together a coalition capable of capturing the majority of Dem primary votes. His game plan was the same one that propelled Trump to the nomination in 2016: appeal to a cult-like fringe that will give you a plurality of votes while the large crowd of contenders splits the Not-Him vote. He failed because the other Dem candidates were well-adjusted patriots instead of the psychopathic hyenas who stayed in too long because their egos would not permit them to withdraw and endorse a better non-Trump candidate.
RinaX
@Citizen Alan:
Thank you. One of the reasons I’m starting to feel anger (which I guess is better than numbness) is because of those looking to use Kamala’s loss to push Black voices to the side within the party by blaming Kamala and telling us we were too friendly to trans individuals.
Many of us were loyal to Joe because he was loyal to us, even if he has stumbled on the issue of race at times throughout his career. But he was an older white man willing to listen, change, and show commitment to elevating Black people and others of color.
TBone
@frosty: 😁
I am Miss Informed! 😉
lowtechcyclist
@Layer8Problem:
Hey, when someone constructs a Jenga tower of stupid on top of stupid, one can’t help but admire it a second time.
Kirk
@rikyrah: I keep recalling Angry Black Lady, remembering why she left, and finding I’m less surprised about this most recent election.
Citizen Alan
@gene108:
My theory is that Afghanistan allowed reporters to play-act as “wartime correspondents” without any serious risk of getting shot in the field. They resented Biden for shutting down the LARP where they got to pretend they were Edward R. Murrow reporting live from the Blitz.
No Nym
@Ceci7: “I just learned the local Strong Towns chapter is having an in-person event tonight and I’m looking forward to attending. My city recently finalized a very cool plan to support pollinators and I’ll try to organize interested folks from my garden club to support the plan’s recommendations.”
Do you live in heaven? Ha ha. I am seriously considering moving back to Chicago, even though I don’t know anyone there anymore.
prn
@WaterGirl: Thank you and please keep trying. The finger-pointing may feel righteous, but it’s self-defeating
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have never attacked anyone and I won’t. I just skip over posts I disagree with. I do think we need to stop attacking each other. We know who fucked us. We did everything right. We need to do self care.
Kayla Rudbek
@RevRick: Hello, Reverend! Did you see my question about going Episcopal versus Unitarian a few entries downstairs? I copied it onto my Dreamwidth page as well.
prn
@Citizen Alan: Agree, 100%
No Nym
@gene108: “Gay marriage became legal. People approved of it because it didn’t change a damn thing in their daily lives.”
I was told it would destroy heterosexual marriage. But I was also told Jared Kushner would fix the Middle East, so. . .
Emily B.
My brother, who has lived a very solitary life in semi-rural Maine since the pandemic, called me last night to ask for suggestions about finding allies and building a local network for support and protection. I mentioned church (we were raised Episcopalian), Indivisible, just having coffee with neighbors who seem like-minded. Today I had another thought: nature/birding walks, since most of those people care about the environment. Small steps, but I think that’s how you start.
Wondering if BJ’ers have any suggestions for creating and/or strengthening our networks of allies now.
john b
That seems doable and a good idea.
wenchacha
@Citizen Alan: For real. When I was a kid, my mom just said “you worry too much.”
I sure did.
It’s better with chemistry, but still little tendrils of fear and anxiety can swirl around at times.
prn
@rivers: Beautifully said, and sorry for your loss
I really love that part about no way back to the past. It’s so true but so hard to accept
KatKapCC
@The Audacity of Krope: Okay, this is where I’m bowing out. I would never deny that among some supporters of Israel, their support is also based in Islamophobia. But you seem to believe that any and all support of Israel’s right to exist, or even just of Jews and their right to live, is only and purely based in Islamophobia, and that antisemitism doesn’t even really exist. Considering I’ve lived nearly half a century being impacted by it on the regular, I know you’re wrong, but you have made it clear that trying to convince you of that is a fool’s errand.
I don’t know how it’s comfortable to you to share a viewpoint with the Proud Boys, but you do you, I guess.
eclare
@Emily B.:
I’m thinking of going to the Methodist church near me. I’m not very religious, but it’s a liberal church, there are allies there.
cain
I think we need to declare ourselves the party of the uterus. We need to do things that are up front and very personal to men because we know a lot of this misogyny and racism. But in this election it seems that misogyny seems to have won out.
Witness the power of women:
apnews.com/article/iceland-women-strike-equal-pay-970669466116a2b1a5673a8737089d46
Every woman in Iceland basically said, no sex, no nothing. Want dinner? fuck you. Want children? Fuck you. Want marriage? Fuck you.
The country did not last even a week when that strike happened.
Forget policies, forget whatever, you do this., The power of the uterus will compel you: “OBEY”
Kelly
@Citizen Alan: My theory of Afghanistan is we went in due to a con job. One of the perennial problems with saving people from con jobs is they’d rather keep losing than concede they’s been conned.
On that not the cold November rain has stopped sos I’m going to walk Daisy. We’ll see how it goes. Five month old now I never know if she’ll walk politely or pull wildly. Current tactic is to reverse directions every time she pulls on the leash.
wenchacha
@Emily B.: Lots of my theater friends have been putting on shows for LGBTQ fundraising. As far as that goes, check in to local arts groups, where you may find more interested people.
No Nym
@prn: Like Maxine Waters, reclaiming our time (and money and energy).
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: Looking back, that’s how weak our bench was as of January of 2020. Looking forward, our bench looks quite a bit stronger now.
rikyrah
@rivers:
sorry for your loss
prn
@Omnes Omnibus: Fuck ’em indeed!
Belafon
@Geminid: We have a few more interesting governors now, and those that ran back then got some good experience under Biden.
cain
@cain:
FYI – when the women did this there was two things that happened:
a) there was a shortage of hotdogs because that’s all the men knew how to cook
b) the men didn’t last a week before everyone gave up.
The Audacity of Krope
You looked up that list. I can tell because you included Deval Patrick who did not run in any meaningful way.
I’m talking about the conversations online and especially in the MSM. Joe Biden was sold as the one true hope against Trump. Choosing anyone else would be too risky for…see your own list.
After Iowa, the first contest, it was effectively just Biden and Sanders. Lacking faith at the time in either of them, that was the first time I seriously pondered how to separate myself from the broader economy. I didn’t want to participate*.
The only other people under serious discussion in the media were Buttiegieg and Bloomberg. 2 more white dudes.
This is what we’re going to be looking at in four years again. Even if people won’t admit it out loud, they’re going to be looking to play it safe with a white guy.
*I resolved after this election to never seek any form of employment with corporate or otherwise large scale enterprises.
WereBear
@rikyrah: Perhaps we should bring shaming and shunning back.
I plan to.
JustRuss
@George: While it’s true our media sucks, a lot of Trump voters are super low-information: they get their news from Twitter and Facebook. Which just happen to have fascist and fascist-curious owners. That’s a puzzle we need to solve.
tam1MI
Two Senators who backstabbed their own President and vaporized the votes of Biden supporters. One part of me is glad they got what they so richly deserved, the other part wishes they could have got their comeuppance at a later date when it wouldn’t have hurt so many innocent people.
eemom
@rikyrah:
Thank you. It’s been dawning on me this last week how uh, majority white this place is.
RevRick
@Kayla Rudbek: I read your page. My parents saw the before picture in Germany since they were in Berlin serving in the American Embassy before the war. They witnessed Kristallnacht and heard the rhetoric (they both spoke German).
I don’t think we’re there…yet.
As for UU versus Episcopal, that’s entirely your choice. I do know that mainline Protestant churches are ripe for capture by liberals/progressives, because we have been so weakened by decline over the past 50 years. My own United Church of Christ is but a third of what it was in 1960. The clergy is invariably liberal.
As for what you may believe or not believe, I can assure you of two things. First, God won’t take it personally. Second, we may ask you to affirm X, but we understand that what X means is a matter of your conscience.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: worst respite thread ever.
Splitting Image
@JustRuss:
You’re not wrong about this, but I think people give too much credit to Facebook and Twitter for Trump’s apparent prowess and not enough to the churches these people go to.
GOP voters have been low-information conspiracy-mongers for a lot longer than social media has been around and churches (especially Evangelical Christian churches) are a big reason why.
eemom
@KatKapCC:
You have my wholehearted support. I took all kinds of shit for years on this blog for defending Israel’s right to exist and calling out antisemitism.
It was many years ago. OTOH not so long ago Cole was astounded to discover that I’m not Jewish myself.
kwAwk
We as Democrats have been in an abusive relationship with the right for about 25 years now. Part of being in an abusive relationship is that you start to blame yourselves for the abuse. What did I do to trigger this person? You start to walk on eggshells, you get depressed, you withdraw, you over analyze.
We lost an election. The Republicans lost their party.
Both Trump and Musk are narcissistic attention whores. Once Musk starts getting too much credit for things happening in the Trump administration, Trump will jettison him.
Most Republicans in Congress are still tied at the hip to Wall St. They’re not going to go along quietly with Trump and neither will Wall Street. If he does pass major tarriffs the stock market will crash in short order, and inflation will shoot up, setting the stage for a blue wave in 2024. When Americans see the reality of mass deportations, they’ll come to their senses. We pretend this is just about picking crops, but this is also about many other areas of the economy. Fast food restaurants. Meat packing plants. Lawn care and maintenance. There’s a price that is going to paid.
If Trump defunds Ukraine and Putin steps in to take it all. Trump will be shown to be the fool that he is.
Yes, whomever convinced Harris to campaign with Cheney was an idiot. Yes, the ‘woke’ thing sometimes goes to far. I’m a white guy who has a daughter who is half asian and even I get sick of the racist anti-white people shit that comes out of her mouth. We forget that white people aren’t the only ones who are racist. But the reality is this election wasn’t really a commentary on Democrats and the left as must as it was on the right. Relax. This isn’t the end.
Ramona
It has taken 7 days now for this word that was forming dimly in the front of my head to describe this state of history and it finally crystallized OBSCENE!
This is an OBSCENE near unbelievable national state for the world’s most powerful country to be in!
Say that after Obama, we’d had any of the other Republicans who competently coped with Covid we’d still be split down the middle left snarling at right but to now be figuring out what to do with this scofflaw’s two indictments while getting ready to be governed by him and where are the missing national security documents by the way. WAPO/NYT this had better be your daily plant to him!
Have we all fallen down the Rabbit Hole!
Damn you John Roberts! May your poop turn to wombat poop!
Suzanne
@Baud:
Agree.
But I remind myself that the reason people fall into this trap is because they’re essentially kind and rational people, and they have a difficult time putting themselves in the headspace of assholes.
Even when y’all make me crazy….. I love you guys.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@oldgold: LOL. I asked people on tiktok to recommend funny books because I needed a laugh. I don’t know if anyone here can see posts on tiktok, but I’ll put the link in case you can and also want a funny read.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: I hope you don’t quit this blog. I really value your voice, and especially now am looking for insights into what my Indian relatives might be feeling. Our family group chat is pretty silent right now. Everyone is hurting.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@TBone: Cripes, my first presidential election was Nixon vs Humphrey and I cast my first in a long string of losing votes. Carter was a brief interlude only.
catclub
@Jackie: Why do I see that quote as part of a beat sweetener friendly profile?
I would not be all surprised if Alito and Thomas resign to aid the cause of getting Eileen Cannon on the SC.
And some extra rightwing 25 year old.
tam1MI
@rikyrah: The more I think about it, the more I think the Grey Rock approach championed by some folks is best. Just shut down on them. Don’t yell, don’t cry, just sit there impassive and then evenly reply, “I hope you get everything you voted for” and walk away. If you are in a workplace, cut them off with, “Is this a work related issue?” GIVE THEM NOTHING.
Gretchen
@Suzanne: I heard someone say today that a lot of people still think of Trump as the guy from Home Alone and the Apprentice, and like him. As hard as it is for us to understand, that’s the level of attention a lot of people pay.
WereBear
@lowtechcyclist: I told Partner, “You know the problems of two people and five little cats don’t amount to a hills of beans in this crazy world,” and he loved it.
Which is why I love him.
eemom
@kwAwk:
Holy fuck. Being “woke”, in the NOT bullshit right wing smear meaning of the word, is not remotely the same thing as being a nonwhite racist. Shame on you. And God help your daughter.
frosty
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Krope is not a Democrat. Krope is a horseshoe left 💣 thrower.
Funny, in my browser Krope isn’t horseshoe left but instead is a cherry tart. Sometimes a catcake and sometimes sea lion chow.
Gretchen
@kwAwk: That’s an interesting way to think about it: that America is in an abusive relationship with Republicans and we’re trying to placate our abuser and try not to set them off for more abuse. That’s going to give me some food for thought.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
As former Republicans go, Stuart Stevens has become my favorite.
The Audacity of Krope
No, you pulled that entirely out of your ass. This sort of rhetorical distortion is the preferred method of the modern Islamophobe in defense of Israel. Everything must be prefaced, centered around, and then ended upon the notion that Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, which I fully agree with. Where you lose me is where this is pushed so aggressively that any other ancillary point is pushed to the side, say Palestine’s right to exist and defend itself.
Trollhattan
@catclub: Same. I expect them to each pull an Anthony Kennedy.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
Best 8 seconds in movie history:
youtube.com/watch?v=HMIyDf3gBoY
Rusty
@RevRick: Peace be with you.
Suzanne
@Gretchen: I think also that people are fundamentally irrational. If they’re unhappy, they vote for The Other Guy, and that is literally the end of the analysis.
Ukai
There’s an advice section at the end of this evaluation of Trump’s re-ascendancy in a historical context.
The closing paragraph:
tam1MI
Ageism
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Not traveling. 4:29 pm is sunset in my neck of the woods (eastern part of EST.)
MagdaInBlack
@RevRick: Your words here have often been great solace to me and today is no different. Peace be with you.
Antonius
I don’t comment much, but welcome to the cultural America of the 1950s with better restaurants.
This election is America reverting to the way it’s been for most of its history. The time from 1965 to 1981 was a short aberration in its long benighted history. Unfortunately, those were formative years for many of us. Black folks got through slavery and Jim Crow. What America is contemplating in the immediate future is still a vast improvement on that long period.
tam1MI
Not all the leadership. Hakeem Jeffries stood strong for Biden. I can’t recall exactly, but I don’t think Schumer was on the side of the Coup d’Etat Caucus.
It’s also important to remember that the shivving of Biden was organized and executed by a minority of elected Dems, who’s ranks have been thinned out because they suffered the consequences of their actions this election.
kwAwk
@eemom: At it’s core woke isn’t inherently racist, it’s about recognizing the truth about the world and trying to make it better.
We have black history month because truthfully white people were putting out a bullshit version of history. Well we can’t in the name of wokeness replace one bullshit version of history with another bullshit version.
Slavery was a complicated issue. Not all white people were complicit. Slavery was illegal in half the US states from the get go. Lots of white people worked and died to eliminate slavery.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Antonius:
Nominated!
Omnes Omnibus
@kwAwk: God, are you starting this again?
cain
I think what gets me is that the GOP keeps flexing and gets more extreme and we think “now the american public is going to come to their senses” and it never happens. Some of that is because the Dems are fixing the economy so they feel comfortable voting for the other side because in the back of their minds they believe that the country will right itself.
I think this time it is going to be different because Trump is angry and he’s going senile. He’s going to be very stubborn and he’s going to do whatever the hell he wants.
There will be an intercine war between republicans that is going to happen and a lot of Trump voters are going to feel very nervous.
If I were all of you who are former green card holder, do an FOIA on yourselves and make sure you have your documentation in good order. I have mine.
kwAwk
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, tis what the thread is for my friend.
Does it bother my talking about how white people aren’t the only ones who are racist?
Ramona
I still fantasize that somewhere in the mists of time, those who abetted the theft of national security documents get tried and punished. I want laws put into effect in this Congress that this not be forgotten.
cain
@tam1MI:
Well, Schiff was rewarded and he was the face of the whole thing.
It doesn’t really matter. I don’t think talking about what happened with Biden is going to change. As I said, we voted a corrupt, vapid man over a well qualified candidate whether biden or harris. It’s not our fault that Americans can’t make good decisions. They just have to learn it the hard way.
Meanwhile, the holiday season is now fucked for the Trumpers as there are plenty of us who are not interested in being part of their rabble
kwAwk
@cain: I’m not sure that this is same ole same ole.
Tarriffs and protectionism sounds more like 1980’s Democrats than 2000’s Republicans to me.
What we’re seeing with Trump is the collapse of the Reagan coalition. People on the right, though they don’t talk about it are turning on the Reagan ideology of free markets and fair trade, big military and interventionalist foreign policy, war on drugs, big deficits.
Quite a bit of movement.
The Audacity of Krope
I don’t think it’s so much this as the suggestion that wokeness is spreading anti-white bigotry through our school systems, which is absurd.
Omnes Omnibus
@kwAwk: Nah, does any focus on non-white people really bother you as much as it seems to do?
Harrison Wesley
@Citizen Alan: And his father played with Sun Ra!
kwAwk
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s cultural. It’s this attitude that anything ‘white’ is lame and uncool. Basic. Tim Walz is a good example, even on SNL they’re like Tim Walz is like the most basic white guy who ever lived.
I’m also thinking yes that sometimes the schools do go to far. Yes we understand there were a lot of white villains in American history, we can’t just forget there were white heros too.
kwAwk
@Omnes Omnibus: I speak of the partnership that has existed for over 250 years between northern whites and southern blacks to end slavery and Jim Crow and you get offended, what can I tell you?
Jesse
Thank you, WG. And all those here. So much suffering. And we’re in different phases of it, and looking ahead, looking forward, inward, outward.
i find myself coping by re-engaging mentally with the content I consume. Including on this blog. I’m thinking things through more slowly. We have to rethink so many things, and in my case I’m looking inward. When I hear a good idea, I ask myself: is that really good? And when I detect there’s a pattern in how I’m thinking, I try to get underneath it. Is there a part of me that resists a bit, even in a crowd of like-minded fellow travelers? Why did I think that was a good idea? Are there any sacred cows roaming around in my mind?
I’m not being paranoid, just trying to approach things with a more beginners mind. Maybe this can help you, too.
cain
@kwAwk:
If they don’t get cheap gas, or cheap food, they’ll turn interventionist soon enough
If I recall, the tariffs discussions back in the 80s (I was only a teen then) was about protecting American labor from Japanese products. Unfortunately, I don’t think Japan has had a great economy since the 80s.
I also can’t recall if they managed to put tariffs on Japanese products back then or not.
Ramona
@kwAwk: hmmm, you may have a point there
The Audacity of Krope
If it’s the school, we have school board elections. If it’s the teacher; look for patterns of behavior, but remember people make mistakes.
I was raised not especially long ago in a school system that only discussed the white heroes, except in February. This is what the anti-woke brigade are dying to return to. In fact, they probably want to reclaim February too.
Jesse
This might sound kind of grating, and I do hestitate a bit to say this (and can’t claim any originality here), but I find, counterintuitiveky, a sort of peace with the result. Why? Because it was apparently a majority win. If it were super close, of if we had another HRC/Trunp “victory”, I wouldn’t say this. But if Trump is truly what our (flawed) electorate wanted, then it would actually be anti-democratic to insist that they’re wrong somehow. Do not get me wrong here. I think a huge majority of the electorate truly seem to be morons. But the majority win gives a lot of harsh clarity, and I think that’s helpful for future work on our side.
Again, this is just me speaking for myself. Not trying to trigger anyone.
Omnes Omnibus
@kwAwk: No, you are again asking that we center white people in that process.
The Audacity of Krope
@Jesse: The result is clarifying in that it made clear to me that I wasted my life on college and training in healthcare. Obviously I should have been committing tax fraud and robbing banks this whole time, that’s the only way to get respect in this country.
kwAwk
@Omnes Omnibus: They were at the center of that process. Almost every person who voted for Abraham Lincoln was a white man. Nobody else could even vote.
As far as the civil rights movement goes there are more black heros to the story. They are more centered in the movement, but still, I bet you could count on your fingers the number of black people who voted for the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Black people set the tone, but white people actually did it.
tam1MI
@prn: I’d like to see a low key, long term messaging effort.
Last night I saw an ad from a left wing PAC pre-framing what Trump was going to do when he took office and urging people to resist. So it looks like at least some of the Democratic coalition is learning.
Ben Cisco
@WereBear: Yeah, the election and both medical situations kicked off at about the same time, so I’ve been running since then.
Have been catching up on the threads but have no more to say on the election for now.
Denali5
I have been experiencing waves of sadness. Thank you, WaterGirl, for trying to give us a place to process what we have experienced. It is going to take time. I have had the realization that this is not the worst thing that could happen; we have only to look at Ukraine and see ongoing suffering and a bleak future. Yes, as a white woman I feel heartbroken that we are not able to elect a woman as President. There is always something – she is not likable, she is half Black, what will it be next time, or will it be possible when the candidate is an Evangelical, hard right Republican. Then will she be good enough?
kwAwk
@cain: Mostly Reagan put in place laws the made it beneficial to build auto plants here, but not much else and G. HW Bush negotiated the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@kwAwk:
Like sure, but a whole bunch of them didn’t like slavery because they were afraid slavery’s spread would put them out of a job or they didn’t like the political influence of the “Slave Power”, not necessarily because they thought slavery itself was a moral wrong. Even among those who did, including Lincoln, they were ambivalent about or even opposed to racial integration. They wanted to send them back to Africa. And then of course many of these same people willingly abandoned Reconstruction and let African-Americans to their fates in the South in the name of national unity in the decades following the Civil War. It wasn’t that much better in the Northern, Midwestern, or Western United States either
Ben Cisco
@rikyrah: I’m with rikyrah on this. 100%
Steve LaBonne
@Omnes Omnibus: Wypipo cannot fail, we can only be failed.
kwAwk
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): True. Lincoln himself didn’t think that blacks were equals to white but thought whites would get used to living side by side.
There were also a lot white preachers who thought slavery was simply immoral and inexcusable.
It’s also true that in 1860 most northern white people had never met or spent much time with a black person. They only knew the bullshit they may have read about black people.
tam1MI
Which is why the perspectives of our members who belong to marginalized groups are so valuable here. At least to me.
RevRick
@Rusty: And also with you.
RevRick
@MagdaInBlack: I’m glad I could provide some comfort
tam1MI
Same here.
tam1MI
I want SC to stay also.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah: Just to clear, you’re not one of the folks who took over thread to relitigate the election. Second, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying.
indianbadger
To add to the list.
eemom
@Steve LaBonne:
I take it you’re a Michael Harriot reader.
Wish I could bring him out from behind a sign, Woody Allen-like, and watch him mop the floor with Exhibits A-Z kwAwk here.
cain
@kwAwk: Wait that was Bush? I thought it was Clinton who enacted it..
mvr
@J. Arthur Crank: Cool! Woodworking is a good hobby.
mvr
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet (too many messages to check them all). But this is a relevant viewpoint:
talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-aftermath-of-competitive-hyperbole
cain
@eemom:
lol – I’ve known that for a long time. It’s never not been majority white.
It was a lot worse about 12 years ago though..
mvr
@Rusty: Not sure what kind of help you need, but I do have a small shop with metalworking tools and lots of books to consult.
SomeRandomGuy
Glad you said that. It’s horseshit.
Depression is when your *perceptions* have changed to the negative, so badly, that you don’t even think the world’s best oral sex is a big deal, even though you might enjoy it, and have a couple (note!) of moments of afterglow. I once had afterglow that lasted ten fucking minutes and I figured I was coming down with something. I got over it. That’s (moderate to severe) depression.
Now, perceptions being lousy, means, essentially, that your hope circuits are fried, and, because of that, your emotions are all over the place, but, mostly, *I* feel numb, as do a lot of other victims.
(“Victim” is not a bad word. I have been a victim of a robbery; deciding I didn’t like the word “victim” didn’t get me my money back – I was still a VICTIM of a ROBBERY, because my money was still missing. Anyone else need basic English instruction?)
So you can be numb, but you still have the emotions – you’re just not managing them, because you’re not perceiving them. When your perceptions are that badly fucked up, it’s easy to throw tantrums, say nasty things that seem less nasty (because your outlook is so bleak), respond with biting comments that, again, seem less biting, because one’s outlook is so bleak, etc..
BUT: most of you out there aren’t depressed. You’re in emotional shock, and it’ll wear off in a couple-three months at the most – if that sounds like a long time, it is. Point is, you’re not fucking *SICK* like *ME*. You’re just letting your emotions create a toxic cesspool in your heads, and, if you *TRY*, if you try REALLY HARD, then YEAH, you can make yourself sick and pitiful and wanting to die.
Guess what: make yourself depressed, you better have the world’s best fucking support system, because a lot of morons who *let* themselves wallow manage to kill themselves. And don’t look to me for sympathy – *I* am right here telling you how to handle emotional shock so it *doesn’t* twist inside you and make you sick in body, mind, and spirit. Plus, you’ll be too depressed to think of looking for sympathy, or caring, if/once you get it.
Ahem. Sorry – but if I give you sympathy, you wallow. If I’m a dickhead, you wake up enough to cuss me the fuck out, and maybe you don’t go back to wallowing.
I know, I said I was leaving. You ever see that Firefly, where Mal and Wash are captured? Yeah, and every time Wash wanted to give up, Mal did whatever he needed to do to keep him pissed off enough to stay alive? I’m not Mal, and, you might need someone like him. A rotating post – “who can be Malcolm for us this week?” – might be better than a stationary one, which people might walk into more easily without the rotation giving a motion hint to the edge of your vision.
You know what you could do to help right now? You know what you can do to keep our nation from sliding into hell right now?
Absolutely nothing. So: stop wallowing, and DO SOMETHING ELSE, until you can think of something to do. The reason the band kept playing on the Titanic is, they all knew they’d die, so they figured they might as well keep busy and stop panicking. No, really, it’s true – I interviewed the band members myself! Okay, okay, you got me – I only interviewed 2/3rds, but that’s a quorum!
More seriously: if you can do something good, go do it. If you can’t, the best thing you can do is strengthen yourself. If that means watching a silly movie, or going cruising, almost *too* fast, with music blaring, so that’s all you can think of, etc., do that.
When you can’t change reality, and your emotions are killing you, change your emotions.
mvr
@Soprano2: That’s a lot. My mom had Alzheimer’s late in life and it was very rough on my dad. I hope you have the opportunity for some respite.
Lapassionara
@No Nym: ok
mvr
Missed this when I posted a less useful link to the same article because I didn’t know it was paywalled. Thanks Steve!
Gloria DryGarden
@Professor Bigfoot: agree
fight or flight
i think of fear as the indicator light,
and anger as both indicator and jet fuel
mvr
@WaterGirl: I really appreciate it. Glad you are doing it.
Lapassionara
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Great!
hitchhiker
@SomeRandomGuy: thank you.
bluefoot
My mixed-race 20-something nibling, who is obviously stronger than I has already been engaging in their community, starting with gay and trans people to work with groups feeding the homeless and providing other basic necessities. They have been stressing how interconnected everything is so building connections locally is paramount. They live in a purple-red area in the Rust Belt.
On the other hand, I have been baffled and despairing. Perhaps I am old enough to have a better idea of how bad it can get.
Gloria DryGarden
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: i love your nym. I hope your dem sister in Tennessee can find Allies and a deeper support network.
I’ve been trying to get like minded allies for my close buddy S of Chattanooga, “the Pollyanna from hell”. He’s been up to the Chattanooga UU church, and he’s not far from Rome, GA, where there are lots of dems.
Making friends has been more challenging now that I’m not in my 20s or 30s. Not sure why, I’m guessing, work, home maintenance, changing health, busy adult ing, complex lives, and some towns are easier places to make friends in.
Gloria DryGarden
@SomeRandomGuy: BRILLIANT. Fucking brilliant. Please don’t go away entirely. I see you.
I could say a few things about depression, too, but for now, what you’ve said hits a wonderful spectrum of truly useful insights that never occurred to me.
Which makes your comment a nutrient. So please don’t shut the fuck up.
@Scout211: I have particularly noted and enjoyed your comments, and learned lots from you. When it’s worth it for you to reappear, I shall relish any of your future comments.
(Darn it.)
Msb
@rikyrah:
thanks so much for your comments. You are quite right. One of the most painful realizations of this election is how much Americans, even female ones, hate women. A bitter pill.
oK, then. If the only acceptable D candidate for Pres must have a p***s, and preferably have a pale skin, message accepted.