This isn’t surprising at all:
Twenty-seven percent (27%) now say black-white relations are getting worse, up 10 points from July 2009, while 33% think they’re staying about the same. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
African-Americans are much more pessimistic than whites. Thirty-nine percent (39%) of whites think black-white race relations are getting better, but just 13% of blacks agree.
It seems to me to make perfect sense that African-Americans are more pessimistic than white people about the status of race relations. Imagine for a second you are black, and look back at the last few years.
A completely qualified black man is a candidate for President, and you endure a grueling primary season where all sorts of shit is dredged up. Crazy black preacher! Kenyan! Black churches! Is he black enough? Is he too black? White people won’t vote for him! He doesn’t think like us! Pals around with terrorists! Secret Muslim! And on and on.
Despite all of that, Obama prevails, and there is a huge sigh of relief in black communities around the nation- finally, a black man can be President! People have a wave of optimism.
And then half the country and the party that represents them completely and totally loses their shit. A guy who on a good day is slightly to the left of Olympia Snowe is now some crazy radical Muslim who who is doing favors for the Black Panthers while shelling money to Acorn. And the worthless shitheads in the media just run with it- “Look- black people suck so much and are so stupid, you can go into their community help centers dressed as a pimp and try to sell white girls!”
Email lists run overboard with Obama dressed up as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose, jokes about no longer being able to call it the White House, and who knows what else make the rounds. Angry white mobs gather around the country screaming about, well, whatever the wurlitzer has them fired up about on any given day. But really, we are told- they are just worked up about deficits. Shirley Sherrod gets smeared. Basically any time black people are in the news for the last year and half, they were being smeared by Fox news and the wingnutosphere.
On top of that, the President is also receiving a level of intra-party scrutiny and attacks that is unprecedented in modern times. There literally has been no honeymoon for this President, as his own party has been after him from day one. This is in large part due to the tensions of the last decade, the rise of the internet and the cable news need for constant shouty types, but if you are black, you might be sitting around wondering “Why the fuck is President Obama getting this much shit from his own team?”
And finally, the economic situation, which has always been dismal for the African-American community, is now ATROCIOUS. Jamelle Bouie had an interesting piece up the other day responding to someone who wonder why the black community in the South doesn’t protest the Confederacy bullshit more. The answer was basically “we’re too fucking hungry and poor to worry about it.” So what you have is a black community that is always, even in good economic times, suffering from staggering unemployment, poverty, and incarceration, but now in this economic downturn they are in a full blown depression, and they turn on the tv and all they hear is elderly white men telling us that food stamps and welfare queens are the real problem.
So, yeah. Not real hard to figure out why the African-American community might be slightly less optimistic now than they were a couple years ago. I know we aren’t very good in this country at putting ourselves in other people’s shoes, but this one is not too hard to see, if you just look.
Comrade Dread
Pshaw. Empathy’s just another word for communism, Pinko.
TooManyJens
Shocking what a couple of years of whipping up racial tensions non-stop will do to race relations.
(Yes, I know that’s always been the Right’s MO, but they’ve stopped bothering to be even slightly subtle about it.)
Also, damnit, now I’m going to have Joe Piscopo’s voice in my head all day.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
If there’s one thing we are worse at than putting ourselves in someone else’s shoes, it’s accepting responsibility for crap we cause. Because that would interfere with our first amendment right to be assholes.
lacp
But…but….islamosexual! Kenyan welfare anchor baby! Jihadimarxist! Nazinegro! Blargle! Splurf! Glagggaa!!! Boogeda-boogeda! ##@!!11!!$[[*&!!!!!!
Adam Lang
Obama lanced the boil.
There sure is a hell of a lot of pus, isn’t there? I hope things are getting better, in that once its all drained, maybe we’ll actually start healing.
Kryptik
It really is just stunning and galling out quick this country has managed to regress. And hey, all it took was a Black President to trigger it all. Oh, wait, a Black Democratic President. Since of course this never would’ve happened if Michael Steele were president. Sure, we’d have an assload of different problems, but we probably wouldn’t have the hysterical collective pantsshitting we have going on.
That’s the sad thing too. It’s all means to an end. ‘Reverse Racism’, ‘Victory Mosques’, ‘Radical Soshulisms’, ‘Birth Certificate’, etc. It’s not about actual people or principles, it’s all fucking power grabs. And what’s sadder is that it’s working.
ChrisWWW
It’s not going to get any better as long as the economy stays in the crapper. Rightwingers will continue to blame black people (the President included) for all of our economic problems, and they’ll have a frightened audience that’s receptive to their hate. It’s what they’ve always done to keep the masses in line: Divide and conquer.
Brian S (formerly Incertus)
Took me a moment to remember the title reference, probably because my go-to line for that these days is Gob Bluth’s duet with Franklin.
What does it say about my current state of mind that I found those numbers surprisingly high?
Brian S (formerly Incertus)
Took me a moment to remember the title reference, probably because my go-to line for that these days is Gob Bluth’s duet with Franklin.
What does it say about my current state of mind that I found those numbers surprisingly high?
Ella in New Mexico
I really believe that black-white relations across the general population are no worse–and certainly better in the younger generations.
What has happened is that the true minority of people (who we used effectively shame into silence) have now been allowed to grab hold of the microphone of the “desperate to win” Republicans who have been cowardly and venal enough to allow these elements free rein to air long repressed bigotry.
Noise, not substance.
Silver
White racists think racism not a problem, it’s just niggers whining again.
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose…
silentbeep
Also, too: they blame the Mexicans and Arabs too. But Black people get the blame first, and then they throw in anyone else brown into the mix.
Gold Star for Robot Boy
Excellent title, JC. Joe Piscopo is regarded as a punchline now, but back in the day he was a funny guy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam Lang: Normally, I am on the the big optimists on the site, but, with this, I just don’t know. I really think that there are people in the country who are irredeemably bad on race. I think though that younger generations are getting better, but we are going to need to wait until lot of people die off before it really gets better.
Zandar
No, actually most of us are very, very personally familiar with this phenomenon. No wondering about it, we just nod our heads and go “this too shall be overcome.”
joe from Lowell
@Adam Lang:
I think that’s it, exactly. During the era of Martin Luther King’s leadership of the civil rights movement, we saw white cops beating black protesters on TV, we saw black churches being bombed by the Klan, we saw King himself murdered.
Is anyone going to look back now and say that that era was a setback for race relations?
Susan S
Dear John: Beautifully put, as usual. Deeply disturbing, but at least one “white guy” gets it. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out. Such sad bigots we face.
Joe Beese
You know, back during the 2008 primaries, when Hillary supporters complained about being accused of racism for not backing Obama, I thought they were full of shit. Plenty of them probably were racist, I figured. And the ones that weren’t were still supporting that horrible woman, so fuck ’em.
Now I know how they felt.
If his party has been after him “from day one”, that’s because he insulted a major constituency of that party on his very first day in office.
Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, we know that his telling the LGBT community “Get over it” was setting the tone for the rest of his administration.
CT Voter
This is an awesome rant, and beautiful to behold.
My theory is that we’re watching the equivalent of a cat hack up a giant furball. It’s taking forever, and it looks awful, but when it’s over, things will be better.
Although someone will be left to clear up the mess.
Rhoda
A black man was elected President. I always knew there would be a backlash and it’s happening; what’s heartening is that there has been pushback against the ignorance. Instead of taking two steps back we’re IMO standing still. And that seems like a giant push back because of the leap the country feels it made in one generation going from the lunch counter to the White House (Robert Kennedy got it right with that 40 years thing on MTP). But it’s significant and I’m still incredibly hopeful.
This country feels like a fucking mess right now; but when I think about it for a bit I generally feel that it’s going to get to good and we’re not Rome and the future is all bright and shiny in the long run 2014ish when hopefully we’ve staved off the crazy Republicans Obama has a second term and the health exchanges have been set up. Then I read Felix Salmon about this mortgage mess and feel fucked, lol. But in a hopeful so the sex is crap but I like America’s personality most of the time and I don’t have to pay to use the toilet kinda way.
Can you hear me clapping, Tink?
John Cole
@Joe Beese: Dear Loser,
Today’s topic is about AA opinions on race relations, not your sad face regarding everything Obama. Please fuck off until you find a more appropriate thread.
Also too- cut yourself.
Omnes Omnibus
@Joe Beese: You really can be a tool, can’t you?
Tractarian
Piscopo-Sinatra FTW.
lamh32
@John Cole:
dude for this alone and your righteous rant, you will receive an limited addition one time only “cool white dude” card from this sista. But it’s only good for one day….please use it wisely!
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Adam Lang: Wow. That is a really, really good and accurately stomach-turning analogy!
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
@Omnes Omnibus: Tools are useful. I actually go to Home Depot and pay good money to get them. I’d pay money to be rid if this guy.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Ella in New Mexico: Also, too: This. I don’t think it’s new — I think we’re getting a much better look at shit that was already there.
Though if I were African-American, I’m not sure that would exactly be a comfort to me.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
@lamh32: Could someone be a lukewarm white dude for a week?
Norwegian Shooter
@John Cole: no, you cut yourself. I for one would like to know wtf you’re talking about with this shite:
Omnes Omnibus
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): He’s a metric socket wrench when you are working on ’57 Chevy? Better?
Zandar
And to be fair, that was happening well before Obama got elected, it’s just now that there’s a lot more at stake when it does happen because it’s so much more visible.
Also, I’m so used to it I’ve become a lot more desensitized to it. You have to learn to let it flow over you because of the sheer volume of the stupidity just to be able to function. If anything, I think the last 24 months has been far more shocking to folks who aren’t as personally familiar with racism and are seeing just how far this particular shitstorm stretches into the horizon.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Maybe I’m just a cynical AND angry black man, but none of this crap has been a surprise (I even include the RNC making Michael Steele their token brown face). Hell, I’ve been expecting the sheet draped yahoos to march in D.C. since he was elected.
Doesn’t make it less obnoxious and irritating tho’.
Edit: What Zandar says also2.
Plus living to see the first African-American president is fucking awesome. I may have to have a kid just so I can bore him with stories about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Zandar:
I think this is probably true.
lamh32
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
word!
I find myself getting all verklempt thinking about my nephew and my cousins getting older and talking to their kids about the First Black President!
kommrade reproductive vigor
Whoops, almost forgot:
Cole, you’re the real racist for bringing this up!
/Obligatory “Post-Racial” fReichtard
John Cole
Are you blind? Seriously. Democrats went to the grave fighting for Bill Clinton- the guy who gave us DOMA, DADT, NAFTA, deregulation, and whatever else, fighting tooth and nail any criticism and defending his right to get blowjobs to the death.
Those same people are not flaying Obama alive for not repealing half the shit Clinton did fast enough, and not doing it in the worst economic downturn since the depression.
We’re to the point that there are folks openly wanking about who should get the credit for bringing down Obama from the left. And you think there aren’t black people, who have supported Democrats forever and were Clinton’s most ardent supporters, wondering “WTF is different this time? Oh, yeah.”
Seriously, the myopia of some of you people.
Someone email AngryBlackLady so she can come sort this young fellow out. I’d pay to see that shit.
Ash Can
The bit about whites being more optimistic than blacks cracks me up. I’m reminded of one time in the early 80s when I was hanging out in Germany for a few days with a couple of Green Party lefty bohemian types, a distant relative and her husband. At one point we were discussing gender issues in politics and society. The husband proudly boasted that, in their local Green Party organization, there was no problem with discrimination against women. His wife disagreed, and said that yes, there were problems. I said to the guy, “If you say there’s no problem with women’s rights in your group, and she says there is, guess what — there’s a problem with women’s rights in your group.”
It always amazes me when the simplest of concepts run up against a brick wall with some folks. Makes you want to jam a bathroom plunger in their ears in hopes of unclogging their brains.
Mike from Philly
I sincerely hope you’re not implying that Democrats who haven’t been waving pom poms in Obama’s direction after his myriad civil rights abuses, disappointing lack of negotiation skills in arriving at a health care package, and lack of political will to do anything for the gay community are racist.
Because that would make you a HUGE asshole.
Trinity
I am black. I remember when Obama won Iowa. I told my Mom on the phone the next morning that they would never elect him.
I was obviously wrong.
My brother-in-law, he’s white, and I cried the night of the election. And then we both agreed that White-America was about to lose their mind.
I was obviously right.
In the last two years I’ve lost three people that I thought were friends due to the surfacing of their racist views. They said things to me that I don’t think they would have ever said if we didn’t have a black man for President. It has been an eye-opening and heart-breaking few years.
Honestly, I can’t wait for Obama to be done with the Presidency. I have this feeling that only then will he be truly un-bound and able to speak freely about this whole experience.
Racism is as it has always been in this country. Obama’s election just let it rise back to the surface. I wish I didn’t believe that, but I do.
Norwegian Shooter
@John Cole: I noticed you didn’t name one Democrat who was after him on day one.
General Stuck
@John Cole:
I’m not sure myopia is the correct description from a guy with a blog that sports the first sentence as.
The internets is strange brew.
Joe Beese
@John Cole:
Some of us thought the perjuring, justice-obstructing bastard got exactly what was coming to him.
It’s called “having principles”. Admittedly, this description does not apply to many Democrats.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike from Philly: I wouldn’t say that all disappointment with Obama is race based, but I would say that race is a factor on the part of many people.
joe from Lowell
@John Cole: Can I just add a “Go fuck yourself,” and a “Nice friends you’ve got there?”
Those poor people accused of being racists. Poor Mr. Beese’s heart really goes out to them.
Dickless.
John Cole
Jesus christ. Do you all go out of your way to be offended? That isn’t what I said at all. I said a lot of black folks might thing that, but I think it is mainly due, and I quote, “to the tensions of the last decade, the rise of the internet and the cable news need for constant shouty types.” There is an ability and forum to do real time criticism of the President that wasn’t there in the past. Add to it that one of the big cries during the Bush years was that Republicans just blindly followed Bush, and a group of people have gone out of their way to make sure that isn’t the case. I think we can all name a couple “GLASS IS ALWAYS EMPTY OBAMA IS THE SUXOR” websites.
There are some fringe lunatics, like NoQuarter, who I do think are motivated by race, but you have to remember, we are talking about what I think black people might think when they watch the unprecedented criticism- not what is motivating it.
Christ, I honestly have never met so many people willing to ignore what people say so they can take offense.
General Stuck
@Norwegian Shooter:
Shit, it started before day one during the transition when Obama was picking his new team for governing and the hand wringing from “the base” of liberal bloggers, began over this pick, or possible pick, or that one. BTD comes to mind as one democrat, but there were plenty others.
Zandar
Have you watched FOX News lately?
kommrade reproductive vigor
Waaah! You’re mean!
(SA2SQ, vol. XXI)
Zandar
@General Stuck:
The one person I have had a problem with the entire time is Tim Geithner (and by extension, Larry Summers.) Seeing Paul Volcker on the team made me giddy on the other hand.
Norwegian Shooter
@General Stuck: Thanks for the shoutout! Please read the rest. I’m afraid that I don’t know what / who BTD is, and feel free to name more names.
eemom
@General Stuck:
it started before he was even elected. “Vote for Obama, he sucks less than McCain, even if he did fuck us over on telecom immunity” ring any bells?
ruemara
I’ve said this before and I’ll just keep saying it. Does anyone recall Pelosi & Reid yammering in the press about how they wouldn’t rubber stamp anything from Obama? That was before the swearing in ceremony. I do recall the outrage that accompanied Rick Warren giving a prayer at the ceremony that completely ignored the fact that both a gay friendly pastor and the first ever performance by an LGBT band was also there. Does that count as day one? And, you know what, from this black lady, fuck you too.
TooManyJens
@Norwegian Shooter: I read the link too. I just want to know why, when every president since the invention of the teleprompter has used one, THIS president suddenly gets shit for it.
Cain
@Mike from Philly:
Lack of negotiation skills? Dude he passed it. Nobody hasn’t been able to do anything like in a long while. Certainly not Clinton. I think his negotiation skills is quite good thank you very much.
Let me repeat what we’ve been telling the lot of you for the past year:
IT IS CONGRESS’S JOB TO REPEAL DOMA and DADT.
He is not some magical being who can pass shit. If you put all the power into the executive just remember that someone else can come in and undo it.. you really want that kind of yoyo? 4 years the gays have rights, 4 years later they don’t… Believe me that will hurt pretty good, when you’re married for 4 years and then some new guy shows up in the white house and it is all gone.
You want it, you lean on Harry Reid and the blue dogs. That’s who is standing in the way, nobody else.
Why don’t you take the long view of things instead of just bellyaching about what Obama hasn’t done for you today.
Jeezus, honestly..
cain
kommrade reproductive vigor
At around 1900 EST (when comments hit 650) the blog will go down. So I’d better do this now: Dear Superdestroyer, go fuck yourself with a hot iron. Sideways.
XO
KRV
General Stuck
@Trinity:
Yes, the racism has always been there, and I am not at all surprised with it rising to the surface upon Obama’s election. The problem for us all as a country, is that there are other poison’s in our national bloodstream that are at once converging into something like a perfect storm. The biggies are the result of thirty years of GOP economic policies putting our economic life on a glide slope for collapse, and a GOP reading the demographic writing on the wall, seem all in for nihilistic values ruling the roost, and blocking the real deep changes we need to make to avert catastrophe. Then there is the baby boomer train coming down the tracks and nearly here to reek further havoc, and a press whose only goal right now is to fatten their bottom lines with entertainment politics, rather than informative news. There are other elements coalescing around the vortex of failure that portend some really hard times in an array of venues for American life as we have known it, changing drastically for the worse.
georgia pig
Exactly. And it’s yet another example of the political dumbfuckery that has screwed the Democratic Party since the unions lost power. Who gets out to vote for Democrats at like 90%+ and gets them elected in places like NC or GA? It ain’t progressives.
Joe Beese
@ruemara:
And he appointed a transgendered person too! Fine, stirring symbolism!
Then he was expected to actually, you know, do the things for the LGBT community that he promised. But when Congress was killing off DADT repeal, the “fierce advocate” was too busy congratulating the WNBA champions to do any arm-twisting.
“Ever had the feeling you’ve been cheated?”
Bob Loblaw
This is so fucking stupid.
Sorry to break you white motherfuckers’ hearts, but defending Obama on the internet isn’t this generation’s civil rights movement. There isn’t some nefarious racist leftist conspiracy trying to bring Obama down.
Obama is every bit as popular right now among Democrats and self-described liberals as Clinton was in his first term? Do you want to know how I know that? Because two fucking years of polling data says so. I know, it’s devastating to your moral crusade, but you’ll survive.
A small contingent of policy wonks went after the Clinton administration on a routine basis. They were called Nation contributors. And Naomi Wolf. These days, we just have bloggers instead. But since Everything Is More Important On the Internet, Digby’s pessimism is apparently an insidious plot to uphold racial bigotry. Or something.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Joe Beese:
Grow a pair, Princess. I’m a lesbian and I didn’t have a shreiking fit about the invocation. He is supposed to be president to all of America. Of the Jesus-freak constituency, Warren is at least better than most. It wasn’t a personal insult to all LGBT. It wasn’t about us at all.
DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.
Life’s an Eskimo pie, let’s take a bite.
General Stuck
@Zandar: Same here. I loudly voiced my distrust in Summers and especially Gheitner early on on this blog, and got flamed for not realizing these guys HAD to be the ones to do the job, or others like them, because they were the only ones who understood the mess and how to unwind it. I still can’t stand the sumbitches that make my skin crawl.
liberal
Heh.
But seriously, it doesn’t have to do directly with Obama being black; they attacked Bill Clinton in similar ways.
It rather has to do with the perception that the Democratic Party represents the interests of “those” people.
joe from Lowell
@ruemara:
It’s worth repeating this, in order to break down the reasoning here: the presence of someone who is regressive on gay rights, who was performing a symbolic function that had nothing whatsoever to do with gay issues, is a defining action for Obama’s relations with gay people. However, the presence of people who are quite progressive on those same issues means nothing.
Forget about what’s actually happened in the arena of gay rights – the ban on discrimination in federal hiring, the ban on discrimination from anyone receiving federal housing money, the Matthew Sheppard Act, the promise to sign a bill allowing gay people to serve openly in the military as soon as Congress gets off its ass and passes one. Obama continues to be neighborly with people who disagree with him on gay issues, while doing nothing to help them, and quite a bit to harm them, on their issues. That’s a SLAP IN THE FACE! and the truest standard by which he should be measured.
It’s fucking absurd, and I don’t respect people who think this way.
ruemara
@Joe Beese:
You, sir, are a moron.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
JC @top
I think you are either exaggerating for rhetorical effect here (no problem with that – hyperbole is what excellent rants are made of), or your recent conversion to the Dem side means you don’t remember the last two democratic admins very well. Clinton and the congressional Dem caucus parted company with each other as quickly as you can say “gays in the military” and congressional Dems and Carter also had the knives out for each other almost from the get go (google Carter and “western water projects”). This is just Dems being Dems, and you aren’t used to it. Obama has had it neither better nor worse than average. If anything, I’d say that Obama’s admin has better relations with the Dem congressional leadership than did either Clinton or Carter, and that by dint of serious effort from the WH, for which Obama deserves due credit.
As for the netroots, there really isn’t enough past history circa 1976-1980 and 1992-2000 to make valid comparisons against. The netroots is too new to say one way or the other, and the activist Dem base of the past didn’t leave enough of a paper trail for us casual historians to tell. Maybe Rick Perlstein will get around to it sometime, but I don’t have that level of archival knowledge, and I don’t think you do either.
Other than that quibble, rant appreciated and supported from this quarter, so please do carry on.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
Oh, lollipop, lollipop/ We all know Obama is popular amongst dems in the country side on this blog. We don’t wedgie the one true real progressive base for a moral crusade. We do it because it’s fun.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob Loblaw: Every animus has its own motivations. As a white guy who has followed politics for years, I have to say that it is my considered opinion that a whole shitload of the crap Obama gets is racial. The Kenyan stuff, the witch doctor stuff, Jeremiah Wright… the list goes on. Hillary would have gotten misogynists if she had won. Would it have been worse? We will never know.
Norwegian Shooter
@TooManyJens: I don’t know – maybe our media keeps getting dumber and dumber – but my point is that who cares about teleprompter criticism? Ignore it. It is only a tenuous link to GOP past criticism, also stupid, that made JC blow a gasket. (although this thread shows it doesn’t take much – cut yourself?!?) Get over it!
The other point I forgot to make is that Mondale is a great Democrat and JC has done less for Democrats than Mondale’s little pinkie – even if that pinkie only clears out Fritz’s ear wax.
Corner Stone
@georgia pig:
All snark aside, are AA voters distinct from “progressives” in some way?
I mean in that, no significant number of likely AA voters would self ID as a progressive?
Gator90
@John Cole:
Hey, let’s talk about what I think you might think: I’m going to a post a whole rant as an excuse to suggest that liberal Democrats who criticize My Glorious Leader are racists! Wheee!
Omnes Omnibus
@Norwegian Shooter: You realize that the cut yourself remark was addressed at a commenter who has a history here and was probably not based solely on the one comment, right?
liberal
@John Cole:
Huh? Clinton was actually impeached by the troglodytes.
When they impeach/harass Obama after they win the House in November, let’s see how many of those critical of Obama (like me) fail to defend him.
Only reason I can see to not defend him is the feeling that if TPTB let the Republicans pull this shit for the second time in a row (first time being Clinton), it will take great effort not to give up in resignation and let the country go down the shitter. Not that I’d give in, but my disgust with my country would regrettably be quite strong.
John Cole
@georgia pig: Yeah- I don’t think racism is motivating the criticisms from the left or the “professional left” at all.
I do think, however, that there are more than a few black people sitting around saying “WTF is going on? What are you doing? We had Clinton’s back!”
Norwegian Shooter
The other point I forgot to make is that Mondale is a great Democrat and JC has done less for Democrats than Mondale’s little pinkie – even if that pinkie has only just cleared out Fritz’s ear wax.
Cain
@Joe Beese:
Joe – that’s your goddam job. You’re supposed to be doing something for the community, someone not voting for DOMA/DADT you get into their faces, organize. That’s the community’s responsibility.
cain
MikeMc
@Joe Beese: I understand your disappoint with Obama when it comes to promises yet kept to the LGBT community. Still, it’s important to remember that the country was in a serious fix when he took office. Pres Obama had to prioritize what he wanted to get done. Unfortunately, commitments to the gay community weren’t as high on his list.
RareSanity
As a black man, first let me say that, this surprised no one in the black community. I think the only thing that has been surprising is that there have not been more attempts on the President’s life.
@Ash Can:
This. Exactly.
It’s always funny when people can’t understand what a poll is telling them instead of just reading the number. Like there was that one poll during W term, 50% of American think he is a uniter, 50 think he is a divider.
So obviously it is debatable whether or not he is. /snark
Norwegian Shooter
@Omnes Omnibus: Nope.
Still waiting for an actual name of a Democrat who was after Obama on day one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Norwegian Shooter: You were given one. You just said you didn’t know who he was.
Jeff Fecke
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ayup. And not just from our opponents on the right. Believe me, I was an Obama supporter, and there’s no question a lot of my fellow Obots were laying on the misogyny thick and clear against Hillary back in the day — just as many Hillbots were flat racist. (“Inadequate black male,” anyone?) I’m sure some of the progressive angst about Obama stems from him not having produced a magical unicorn pony, saved Earth from the aliens, and secured a date for everyone with a Brad Pitt and/or Angelina Jolie clone. But some of it stems from the same thing animating the tea party — naked, pure racism.
General Stuck
@John Cole:
I would trifle with this a little/ I believe there is such a thing as passive, or subconscious racism of a sort. And the meme of Obama not being tough enough, or loud enough, or manly enough, or whatever, likely comes from some stereotype internalizing by some on the left.
curious
seriously. this is what killed me about the shirley sherrod nonsense even more. sure, it makes perfect sense that a civil servant would decide to announce (in prepared remarks, before c-span cameras) how very dear her racism is to her and how much joy she finds in screwing over white farmers. what a novel way to advance one’s career at the usda.
it seems the benefit of the doubt is the first thing to go when one becomes “concerned about the deficit.”
Ash Can
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: I also think that, as others have pointed out on this board, there’s a fair amount of envy among the Democratic lifers for a wunderkind who made as meteoric a rise through the party ranks as Obama did, and all the way to the top, yet. Dem congressfolks can be prima donnas with the best of them, and that had to have put noses out of joint. Having said that, though, I don’t doubt that racism is obviously a huge element in overall opposition to Obama, and I’m quite willing to believe it’s the main one.
John Cole
@Norwegian Shooter: Lol. I have no beef with Fritz unless he is pushing BS right wing memes.
Angry Black Lady
@Zandar: yyyyyyyyyup
I cannot wait for Obama’s memoirs about all this bullshit.
General Stuck
@Norwegian Shooter:
BTD, or Big Tent Democrat. Front pager of the popular Talk Left blog.
What, were you born in a liberal cave?
Norwegian Shooter
@Omnes Omnibus: Would it kill you to tell me who BTD is? Or name one other name?
@ General – guess so.
Bob Loblaw
@Norwegian Shooter:
Can’t you tell? He’s a fucking blogger. Who posts under an acronym and a pseudonym.
He’s a very important person who represents a massive constituency. He is a threat to democracy and race relations everywhere.
Omnes Omnibus
@Norwegian Shooter: I wasn’t the one who started it.
joe from Lowell
@MikeMc:
And despite that, he banned discrimination in federal employment, signed anti-discrimination legislation, and banned discrimination by anyone receiving federal housing funds.
Want to agitate for more? Go for it.
But this bullshit defining him as the enemy who has done harm to the gay community is drama-queen bullshit.
@Norwegian Shooter:
Anyone who bitched about Rich fucking Warren. You can Google individual names yourself.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
Shorter Loblaw – Look at ME! I am important. I know stuff. And I am very very angry.
Gwangung
Sigh.
That way lies taking the African American vote for granted. I think on cultural and economic issues, the AA community is distinct from the progressive community. They align well on social justice issues domestically, but I don’t think they do internationally.
Bob Loblaw
@joe from Lowell:
Well, he actually has positioned himself as a public bigot on the topic of marriage equality, so there is that. Kind of indisputable.
Of course, you could argue that based on his other non-marriage record, he’s simply lying through his teeth for political power, but I’m not sure how that helps him morally.
Either way, the court system is finally on the case, so I guess it doesn’t really matter.
Angry Black Lady
@lamh32: co-sign.
Tsulagi
Sure, you got to draw the line somewhere. First they came for the blowjobs….
If you can’t get motivated by the potential demise of good blowjobs, you’re a lost cause.
Corner Stone
@Gwangung:
I think you misunderstand my question, which is my fault as I’m having a hard time formulating what I am curious about.
I’m certainly not suggesting redefining the AA constituency into the “progressive” one.
But the original post had a hard line distinction included, so I asked about it.
Angry Black Lady
Another brilliant title, by the way.
Side by side my amigo, negro, hey! Let’s not fight!
HyperIon
@General Stuck wrote:
Thanks for the ID. I, like NorwegShooter, had no idea who Omnes Omnibus was talking about. Gotta say, he seems to be a bigger dick than you.
I hope you appreciate the left-handed compliment. ;=)
Omnes Omnibus
@HyperIon: I wasn’t the one who named BTD to begin with.
ETA: I just point out that someone had been named and that NS did not know who he was. NS can’t ask for a name and then dismiss the person simply because he does not know who he is.
General Stuck
@HyperIon: Always nice to see you parachute in Hyperlon. It’s like a ray of cloud on a sunny day.
General Stuck
@Omnes Omnibus:
You are guilty guilty guilty. Maybe not of this, but of something. Taking my side in a blog fight often ends in denial or regret of one sort or another:)
Mnemosyne
@Bob Loblaw:
You really don’t understand how someone could think that something is immoral but not think it should be illegal?
General Stuck
@Mnemosyne: I can see where Loblolly is a big GG fan, compete with motive reading powers, and shark jumping afterburners.
les
Well said, my good man, very well said.
Martini?
Malron
Sir John of Cole, this black man thanks you for caring enough to walk a mile in his shoes before writing this blog post.
I never thought Obama had a serious shot at winning the presidency until he won Iowa. I never thought the party intended to let him win the nomination when they decided to let Hillary go all kitchen sink on Obama when she was mathematically eliminated after February (Goosebumps doesn’t begin to describe the the thrill of seeing the black nominee go undefeated in every primary held during Black History month.) I was convinced the superdelegates were refusing to endorse Obama because they all had their fingers crossed hoping Hill and Bill would come up with some scheme to help them throw all their support to her without appearing to break their own rules. I just knew the committee would meet and award all the delegates in Florida and Michigan to Hillary, erasing Obama’s lead. And, even after the party united at the national convention, right up until the time Obama was declared the winner in Pennsylvania AND Ohio I was convinced that white voters would get cold feet and elect that cantankerous curmudgeon and his hillbilly grifter sidekick.
I too expected every white American’s crazy uncle and grandma to lose their shit after the election. I’m just amazed I didn’t develop ulcers agonizing over every twist and turn of the 2008 race.
Bob Loblaw
@Mnemosyne:
No, I don’t see how describing consenting adults entering into a government sanctioned property and tax sharing agreement can be described as “immoral” without it coming down to bigotry, real or feigned for political purposes. Enlighten me.
joe from Lowell
@Bob Loblaw:
And Lincoln swore up and down he wouldn’t do anything to infringe on slavery.
He’s a politician, he can’t get too far ahead of the public. He hasn’t campaigned on opposition to gay marriage, or even brought it up unbidden. When pressed on the issue of gay marriage, he mouths the moderate line (equal rights, reserve the name for straight couples). When you care about actually advancing an issue through government, you want your leaders to be smart about the PR.
When he actually does something of substance to harm the cause of gay marriage, get back to me. So far, the only substantive act he’s taken on that specific issue has been to urge the defeat of Prop. 8.
Omnes Omnibus
@General Stuck: It was you who started then. Great.
Malron
You would be correct, sir. The Stepin Fetchit, Sleep n’ Eat and Mantan Moreland archetypes in old Hollywood were designed to promote this idea of black men as chronic cowards.
Admiral_Komack
@Norwegian Shooter:
“Harry Reid is hopeless. But this is my favorite line, from Reid: ‘I don’t work for Barack Obama.’(…)
DailyKos, 1/8/09
Dump Harry Reid – Change we REALLY can believe in! by Independent Nevadans for Change
-I don’t remember any Senate Majority Leader being that insulting toward the President.
Thank you, John Cole.
gwangung
@Corner Stone: Ah, I see….I took it as rhetorical, where you meant to get information. Sorry.
Based on my observations (which are limited), I think there are areas of alignment, particularly in areas of urban development, social justice and so forth. I think the African American community is considerably more conservative on cultural issues than conservatives, and on other issues they map well with the whole of the Democratic party.
General Stuck
@joe from Lowell:
Well, you do. And I do. But for others, it is more important the president makes them feel warm and fuzzy in their tummies
Never lead with the chin. and that goes double squared for politics and triple squared for thorny social issues.
General Stuck
@Omnes Omnibus:
Life ain’t fair, then you die.
Mark S.
@gwangung:
You mean progressives, right?
joe from Lowell
@Bob Loblaw:
It should be pointed out at this point that Obama has explicitly come out in favor of “consenting adults entering into a government sanctioned property and tax sharing agreement.” He has endorsed the position – civil unions that do precisely what you describe – that made Howard Dean a beloved icon of the gay rights movement.
I can sympathize with criticism that he should stop the bullshit and say what he said as a state senator in Illinois – that he supports gay marriage – but I can appreciate why he wouldn’t do so in terms of political strategy, and that includes the political strategy behind his efforts to advance gay rights.
Bob Loblaw
@joe from Lowell:
You can justify it however you’d like, I don’t really care. The necessary change isn’t coming from Washington, anyway. It’s a non-issue.
Others, however, may not be willing to play by those moral pretenses. They should be allowed to without being called irrational, even if that hurts some Obama supporters’ feelings.
Omnes Omnibus
@joe from Lowell: I am sure it is hard to hear people preach patience and say he will get around to it. Even if it is true, and I believe it is, it has to be frustrating to wait and be treated as a second class citizen for years. It is something that I, as a straight, white guy descended from groups who were always considered white (even the French), have never experienced. I don’t really have the street cred to say progress will come, but you have to wait a little longer. I am sure frustration just boils over sometimes.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
Did somebody call you irrational? Po baby. Stupid is the watchword, I think, in the context of politics on a political blog. It is smart and rational to support openly, gay marriage for us dweebs on a blog, it remains rational, but stupid, for motive reading and absolutist judgment on any dem president holding back on personal approval of gay marriage, in this country, at this particular time. It is rapidly, I think, reaching a threshold point, where there is still opposition to it, but an openness of mind will develop to the point a dem president can go full metal to push for equal rights in this country. But with holding personal imprimatur while not standing in the way of this particular chapter of making a more perfect union, from the bottom up will have to do for now, imo. Otherwise, Obama risks political suicide, and that would be that.
joe from Lowell
@Bob Loblaw:
Actually getting something done, instead of just posing and emoting about it, is a moral imperative here. This has nothing to do with feelings; this is about cold, hard, effective calculation of what will actually get shit done.
These issues are too important for anything else. This isn’t about affirmation. It’s about accomplishment.
Malron
Even though I’m sure you meant “progressives” I still say you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You do realize the term “cultural issues” was invented to codify racism against blacks, right? The only issue where blacks tend to be less progressive, and this would mainly pertain to older blacks, would be gay rights and gay marriage.
aamom
black lady here. been lurking for over 2 years. mr. cole…god bless you. you just don’t know how deep it is out here. i am a political junkie and read everything everywhere. my sister is not polical and spends all her free time playing scrabble online. but whenever we meet up, the first thing out of her mouth is ..”so what did the white people say about barack today?” during our family reunion 2 months ago the entire clan spent most of the time reliving all the bad things that has happened to obama since that beautiful inauguration day. it’s like now it was all a dream. we simply can’t get over the feeling of hopelessness. thanks for walking in my shoes today.
Cain
I can’t believe we are re-hashing this again.
cain
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
Nope, you called gay activists irrational for the Rick Warren business. I doubt they’ll ever apologize though for it though. The evangelicals do refer to them as subhuman abominations, after all. I gotta figure it smarts to have people like that directly associated with the administration on a day of supposedly grand progress for civil rights in this country.
Boo motive reading! Just because we all actually agree that Obama is withholding his support for gay marriage for political purposes doesn’t mean that we all actually agree that Obama is withholding his support for gay marriage for political reasons. Because, um, motive reading! Absolutism! Stoopid! Idjit! LOLLIPOPS!
You’re a blisteringly dumb individual. Just admit you’re upset that I called Obama a bigot, regardless of what he hopes to achieve politically in doing so.
joe from Lowell
response:
And that’s exactly the point. You don’t really care, and I do. You don’t really care about the practical politics of accomplishing actual change in the legal and political sphere, and I do.
You care about other things more, like cultural symbolism, and that’s fine. This is a two-front war.
But don’t hold yourself out as superior to people who actually understand how it works to win on the other front.
Bob Loblaw
@joe from Lowell:
And Lee Atwater is one of the greatest political operatives in the history of this country. The Willie Horton ad was a stroke of genius. After all, the ends justify the means.
Would you defend those statements? I’m guessing not, right? It would appear your coldhearted political pragmatism has a moral component, after all. Hmm, such a mystery.
I guess ends justifying the means only works when you’re the one who gets to define both the ends and the means to your liking.
joe from Lowell
@Omnes Omnibus: If that’s what was actually being said – that we can’t make progress now, so be patient – I wouldn’t accept it, either.
But that’s not what anyone is saying. Actual, meaningful, large-scale progress is being made. Right now. Major movement is happening in the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.
We’re winning. We’re grinding the ball down the field, picking up first down after first down, and we don’t need to throw the hail mary, even if it would be wicked awesome to pull one off. You just don’t take the chance of turning the ball over like that when you’re pounding the ball with the intermediate game. You just keep doing what’s winning.
Corner Stone
@Malron:
Not to stick my posterior too far over the cliff’s edge, but that was why I asked the question in the first place.
Omnes Omnibus
@joe from Lowell: I agree with you, but I am not the one waiting for my rights. For those without their rights, I can only imagine that it can seem like it is interminable.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
Only the ones stupid as you, and jumping the shark claiming Obama is a bigot, while admitting it is political is just specious mendacity. What is your point loblolly?, are you pissed that Obama is acting like a normal politician, which he is, and no one here of his supporters is claiming otherwise? Or ever has to my knowledge.
Or are you just a miserable sonofabitch that found a website that would tolerate your lying bullshit and not ban you for being a holier than thou fool, but instead christen you as blog troll mascot. Congrats! you got the job.
You conflate shit worse that Greenwald, that is okay, so I guess that makes you a polemicist or somesuch. Or, in layman’s terms, full of shit, but maybe for a good cause.
joe from Lowell
@Bob Loblaw:
And you just called somebody stupid?
You just equated the cause of gay rights with the cause of Republican politics, and you just called someone stupid?
Shallow, stupid people chant the phrase “the end justifies the means” without really thinking about it. What else could possibly justify any means, except the ends they produce?
You know what? Yes, the ends of accomplishing actual progress on important issues justifies using smart politics to accomplish them. The only possible objection here could be a lack of actual concern with accomplishing those ends, and I think you just copped to that when you compared the achievement of George Bush’s political program to the gay rights movement.
What a fucking self-obsessed little moron you are. You actually think that the most important question here is how the politicking makes you feel.
Grow the hell up. This isn’t about turning your fucking frown upside down.
joe from Lowell
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fine, but why aim their fire at the people actually securing those rights? Barack Obama is doing exactly zero to delay them, and a great deal to bring them closer.
Angry Black Lady
@Mnemosyne: THANK YOU. I can’t remember his exact words, but Obama said something like “I’m a Christian, and Christianity teaches that homosexuality is against the Bible.” He never said “I believe that homosexuality is against the Bible, nor did he say that homosexuality is illegal, or gays shouldn’t have equal rights.” To the reactionaries, he might has well have said “let’s lynch some ‘mos!”
He’s a word parser. I’m a word parser. Most decent lawyers are word parsers. He was a fucking constitutional prof at Harvard for fuck’s sake.
It definitely sucks to hear “be patient” but fucking be patient.
Crikey. He had a lot of shit to do after inauguration. I’m as LGBTQ friendly as the next LGBTQ friendly person (I have lots of gay friends!) and I think DADT is despicable. I was on a team that repped a serviceperson who was discharged back in 1992 (I was a paralegal); I spent hours at the Pentagon JAG library reading the UCMJ trying to come up with something to get our client back into service. I get it.
But come the fuck on. He was going to tackle gay rights before healthcare and the economy? Thus pissing off all the people he was going to try to work with? He was supposed to do this right out of the gate? If I see Hamster on MSNBC one more time, or see one more of her idiotic tweets talking about “he could do away with DADT with a stroke of a pen,” I’m going to slap a small child.
People need to settle the fuck down. (People like me, apparently.)
Grrrr.
Omnes Omnibus
@joe from Lowell:That, I have no answer for.
Mnemosyne
@Bob Loblaw:
It’s pretty amazing to me that you’ve never, ever heard anyone say they think that being gay is immoral, so you’re shocked and astounded if Obama does.
It is bigotry, but you know what? It’s a free country. I can walk around thinking that Mormons are immoral idiots all day long as long as I don’t discriminate against them.
What someone thinks about someone else in their heart of hearts means jack shit as long as they’re not allowed to discriminate against them. Falling into the trap of thinking that what’s most important is what someone thinks rather than what they do is falling right into the arms of the right wing and letting them tell you soothing lies about how they’re not really racists because, you know, they’re nice people.
I don’t give a shit what Obama thinks about gay people, or white people, for that matter. All I care about is what he does and his gay rights record so far is stellar, except for DADT (and even there the problem is, as usual, the Senate).
What’s more important to you, Obama standing up and saying he loves gay people, or gay federal employees being able to get their partners on their health insurance? Sure, both would be nice, but be a fucking adult for once and not a WATB who’s upset because people’s day-to-day lives are better but Obama didn’t say the magic words you want to hear before he made their lives better so somehow it doesn’t count.
Mnemosyne
@Malron:
That’s where it originated, but “cultural issues” has kinda morphed into “being anti-gay” in current parlance. That’s why they also talk about how Latinos (used to) lean Republican due to “cultural issues.” It’s become a code word for “anti-gay.”
General Stuck
@aamom:
Cool, we already have an eemom, and were in dire need of an aamom. Welcome!
Angry Black Lady
@Mnemosyne: thanks for reminding me what he HAS accomplished on gay rights. more ammo for my mouth arsenal.
joe from Lowell
Hey, Bob:
Kindly link to a single thing you wrote today in opposition to any political figure who is actually oppose to the advance of gay rights, and who has even taken a single substantive action to roll them back, or to stop their advance.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. What a hero you are. So superior to Barack Obama.
Midnight Marauder
@Angry Black Lady:
A-fucking-men.
I’m always amazed when this issue comes up and people start complaining about how they shouldn’t have to wait for their rights to be granted. Well, you could not be more correct, but guess what? In the grand history of this country, if you are a long oppressed minority battling for eqaulity, then you are going to have to wait a long fucking time to enjoy the rights that heterosexual white males enjoy. That’s the way the game is played.
I don’t know what world people are imaging where they think the struggle for basic human rights and decency was a battle that could be won in the first 24 months of Obama’s presidency. We are talking about a country that still kept blacks as second class citizens after they were emancipated from slavery and that is STILL fighting like hell to actively deny them their constitutionally mandated right to vote. These struggles are slow, grinding, meticulous, methodical affairs that require the utmost in strategizing and execution. And if you’re fed up with the pace of action coming from the government, then get to fucking work electing more competent representation across the country that is not only sympathetic to your cause, but is capable of fighting for that cause in an effective manner in the eyes of the mainstream.
Only in a society that fetishizes the ideal of becoming an instant celebrity with absolutely no effort and work at all could people foolishly believe that the entirety of work to bring equality to LGBT individuals in this country would be a bloodless fight that came to a glorious end with the ascendancy of President Obama.
If you care about the cause of basic human rights for LGBT citizens in this country, then you had better prepare yourself for a long, grueling, disillusioning-on-many-occasions struggle that will ultimately end with equality carrying the day. But before that happens, there will be much suffering, there will be many setbacks, and there will be righteous fury. That doesn’t mean you go to war with your allies who would gladly sign legislation granting you the rights that heterosexual citizens enjoy because they are turning things around, just not with the speed and possible substance you were hoping for.
joe from Lowell
@Bob Loblaw:
Let me tell you a story. I forget which state this was in, but it was the Jim Crow South. A state legislator gets a visit from a black constituent, who says that the black people in his district need a hospital, because they aren’t getting the medical care they need. The politician says he’ll do what he can, but he needs to do it his way.
He then goes to the floor of the state house and introduces a bill to appropriate money for the hospital. He introduces it thusly: “Yesterday, when I was touring such and such hospital, I saw the most disgusting thing. A young white nurse was compelled to give a sponge bath to an elderly negro man…”
Bam, the legislature appropriates the money, and the hospital gets built.
Bob up there would rather he give a barn-burner about the evils of segregation, introduce a desegregation bill that loses, and hang a picture of himself giving the speech on his wall.
Bob Loblaw
@joe from Lowell:
A cause is a cause. There are more Republicans in this country than gay people. Why should we deny them the chance to enact their version of progress based on our moral predilections? Apparently if you just say the word ‘progress,’ then that settles the matter.
Just admit that your philosophy is dependent on power. If you lack power, and therefore the ability to define progress, then it all falls apart.
Do you see that, joe? That’s honesty. That’s all I care about. Being honest about tactics and strategy, and aware of the implications that surmise.
The second one, obviously. But it’s not my personhood that remains questioned in the process, so I don’t begrudge others a different choice.
No he wasn’t. Nice parsing of the truth, while we’re on the subject. He taught at U of Chicago.
General Stuck
@Midnight Marauder:
If there was no need to fight for rights, we wouldn’t need a Bill of Rights.
Ben
Hey, um, not for nothing, but that was by far and away the very best headline you’ve ever done, John. Ever.
I wonder how many people got it.
eemom
Yes, welcome aamom, and thank you for your heartfelt post. Please comment more often.
I can’t presume to say I feel this as deeply as you do, but I know what you mean about “what did they say about Barack today.” As I have often said before, I have infinite respect and admiration for the man — all the more so for the dignity and grace with which he withstands the endless sludge of hatred and lies flung at him — and stays focused on the insanely impossible job he undertook.
WereBear
Great rant.
I am not surprised that certain white people lost their shit; what outright amazes me that they are so blatant and unsubtle about it.
But it’s wrong, and what’s more; they know it’s wrong. They are just in denial about it; as they are about everything else in their whole lives.
It’s not enough; but it’s something.
Dennis G.
John
One of the best things I’ve read in a month of Sundays.
Well done.
Cheers
RobW
@mnemosyne
It’s also an anti-feminism, anti-sex, code, and a religious-right dogwhistle. I think it’s related to “family values” in that way, just a bit subtler.
TKOEd
This should have read:
Basically any time black people are in the news they are being smeared.
Full stop.
Angry Black Lady
it was an error, and not that grave an error considering he attended harvard and harvard and chicago are both top 5, if not top 10 law schools. so, whatever.
what i find interesting is that my error is the only portion of my comment you chose to address.
a break. please give me one.
my father has written multiple books on this subject. the portrayal of race in the media. it would shock you. well not you, per se, but uninformed people.
Angry Black Lady
@Midnight Marauder: well-said! i tell that to my gay peeps all the time. it’s like dude, y’all just started fighting for your rights in the 70s. it’s gonna take some time. just keep fighting the good fight.
Bob Loblaw
@Angry Black Lady:
You’re the one who wanted us all to know how clever and knowing you are. You dropped the ball. That’s not my problem.
michael
piano! keyboard! oh lord!
Ash Can
@Bob Loblaw: Dropped the ball? Hell, you ain’t even showing up to play.
DaBomb
@Bob Loblaw:
Really dude? It’s not that serious. She just confused the schools, she didn’t eat a baby.
You just co-opted a whole thread that was discussing the feelings of African-Americans(myself included in said group) and turned it into gay rights. You completely missed the point.
Thanks for the post John!
Angry Black Lady
@Bob Loblaw: and still you evade any substantive discussion, even after i admitted the error.
i dropped nary a ball.
i am clever and knowing.
i care not whether you know how clever and knowing i am.
knowing that i am clever and knowing is enough for me.
it’s also enough for me to know that what i don’t know, i can ::gasp:: research it.
“neener neener, he went to chicago and not harvard. your argument is invalid” is not a response and makes you look silly, frankly.
silly person.
General Stuck
@DaBomb:
Hi Da Bomb, long time no see:)
rikyrah
Mr. Cole,
this was absolutely terrific.
My late mother never believed that America would elect a Black President. Born and bred in Jim Crow Mississippi, you could understand her skepticism. She passed away in June 2008. On election night, I thought hard about her.
I don’t know any thinking Black person that is remotely surprised at the reaction out there from the GOP.
this is who, quite frankly, we always thought they were.
your rant was righteous and on point.
wilfred
But I though ‘fee-fees’ were supposed to be laughed at? Like those of the DFH or progressives. Or is it a case of ‘everyone has fee-fees but some people’s fee-fees are more important than others”?
Is there a special fee-fee thermometer to refer to?
eemom
@Angry Black Lady:
I join everyone else who has commended John for this post. It is an intense subject that most leftie bloggers don’t have the courage to discuss — white leftie bloggers, at least. I have really appreciated the insight that you and others have brought to the discussion.
And I would like to personally apologize for Loblollipop showing up to trivialize it with the exact same stupid formulaic bullshit he spews on every other thread. Uncalled for, to say the least.
Bob Loblaw
@DaBomb:
I co-opted nothing. The thread began with the legitimate feelings black Americans have of racial animus in the press and the nation’s politics. This animus being ginned up by the right, primarily. Then the question of how much of this same sickness is latent to the left, and its completely overblown “betrayal” of this administration. Then it was pointed out that the left actually has legitimate policy disputes in this environment with which to batter the administration with, including GLBTers (another historically oppressed minority, themselves). Then, in a thread about empathy, this current of anxiety was dismissed with the ol’ “don’t you know how good you have it? Obama’s on your side, leave him alone!” Then it became a question of how much urgency these single-issue voters should sacrifice given the broader political climate, and now here we are. Yay.
There’s nothing to engage with. You’re point is that as a black woman, you know a little something about civil rights movements from all sorts of angles, and advocate that the gay movement show more historical perspective and patience. That’s fine. I just don’t know what you want people to say in response to that. Unless you’re secretly not black and this is all a ruse, there’s really nothing there to refute or uphold. It simply is what it is.
It seems to me you just want people to tell you how amazing and brilliant and righteous you are. My point, is if you want to brag about how awesome your wisdom and truth ordaining skills are, you probably shouldn’t use your very next sentence to post something completely inaccurate…
Bob Loblaw
@wilfred:
The question is, what do we make of a black lesbian anti-war civil libertarian who wishes HIR contained a public option? Chaos, I tells ya.
Hey, Board Mother, cram it up your ass. Because really.
Angry Black Lady
@Bob Loblaw: and where exactly was i bragging about how awesome my wisdom and truth ordaining skills are? (aside from my snide comment in response to yours.) projecting much? i was simply commenting on this thread and relaying my experience researching DADT in order to forestall any accusations that i’m one of those black people who gets pissed off that gay people have stolen our thunder. moreover, i was not even directing my comment to you. you took an error out of an entire comment and focused on that rather than saying anything about the substance of my comment, which, again, wasn’t directed to you. i wasn’t asking you to respond to my comment. you responded with a non-response. “he didn’t go to harvard.”
so. now what.
it’s fine to say “i don’t know how to respond to that because you hold X viewpoint and it is what it is.” but you didn’t do that.
you attempted to negate my point by pointing to an error.
and for the record, a mistake about where someone went to school is not the type of language parsing to which i was referring; i said nothing about parsing the truth. that was your statement. parsing the truth is lying.
::shrug::
i don’t need people to tell me how amazing and brilliant i am. like i said, i already know and it took some learning. is that cocky? no. it’s confidence in my education and skills. i don’t need to puff my feathers for a bunch of anonymous internet people.
anyway, you seem to want to have the last word, so have at it.
Angry Black Lady
@eemom: ha, thanks. it’s fine. i understand the mentality of the loblaws of the world. doesn’t bother me a bit.
hilzoy
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Yep.
Also, google Clinton + “BTU tax”. Or, heck, here’s a chunk:
That was Clinton’s energy plan — and also a big part of his deficit reduction package. But no! said David Boren (D-Oil): we must torpedo the BTU tax, undercut the President early in his first year, and show him who’s boss.
I, too, liked the rant, but Clinton had no honeymoon either. We rallied round a bit when it became clear the Republicans had gone insane, but he was not that popular with either Democrats in Congress or with large chunks of the base until then. — We liked the economy, but hated the triangulation. And recall: one of his first moves was to decide that he had to shelve his social programs in favor of deficit reductions and fending off the bond vigilantes.
SRW1
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
I may have to have a kid just so I can bore him with stories about it.
You don’t have kids? So you’re cheating on us with your nom de plume!?
MJ
Word!
This black woman also wants to thank you two times for this righteous rant John. It has been an incredibly frustrating & emotionally taxing time for politically engaged folks in the black community.
Another quick point, knowing that this righteous rant (about the black folks frustrations during the Obama era) was written by a pet rescuing, backyard organic farming, 90’s hip-hop lyric quoting, SNL “Ebony & Ivory” parody referencing, bad-assed, white dude from West Virginia, who used to be a mutherfrackin Republican, warms my increasingly cynical heart.
Well played, Sir. Extremely well played.
sherifffruitfly
You conveniently left out 2 big things:
1) Note that the biggest racist meme, birtherism, started in the primary, from the so-called “good whites”.
and
2) White “true progressives” are almost completely unified in doing nothing but attack Obama. Just like teabaggers.
I would imagine that blog-reading black folks are thinking something along the lines of “with friends like these….”.
GN
This is a work of genius.
/terrorist fist bump
Thank you. Deeply appreciated.
Neicie
Thank you for a ‘flucking’ ASTUTE article
Norwegian Shooter
@John Cole: Thanks, I aim to please. Btw, it’s still shite.
Benjamin Cisco
Got to this late, John. Thank you for summing this up so neatly. Thanks also for the laugh – Piscopo was a righteously funny cat back in the day.
maskling
mr. cole how could you have ever possibly been a republican?
what you did in this post is something conservative rethugs are simply incapable of doing. looking at something through someone else’s eyes. walking a mental mile in their shoes. empathy.
no way in hell you were a republican. i don’t think “republican” means what you think it means…
DaBomb
@General Stuck: Hey General!! I gotta come around more often.
aamom
@MJ:
so funny. when i first started lurking i got the feeling john was a black guy. that’s the vibe i got from his musical references. then later i learned he used to be a republican. so then i said, ok cool white guy maybe. anyway it was john himself who drew me to his blog because my assumptions proved wrong and he became even more interesting to this little black lady.
Bruce
Because he hasn’t been putting out enough of the “really good shit” for the rest of US!