I honestly don’t know what to make of this:
So the main complaint given in DougJ’s circle-jerk post (wherein the advent of more dispute on the front page of this blog has somehow been labeled as an ‘Atlantic style circle-jerk’) is that too much of the argument is occurring in posts rather than comments. I guess I’m confused. Why is one more circle-jerkish than the other? And is this a blog or a forum? Some people come here to comment. Others come to read posts and don’t comment. Why should the commenters get to decide how the arguments take place? This smacks of readership capture. I say, if a blogger wants to argue in post-format vs comment-format, well that’s good for the thousands of non-commenting readers who come here. If not, hooray for the commenters. And why should it really matter? This seems like a complaint very unique to Balloon Juice.
It strikes me that commenters are what make a blog, which is why I have always had comments, always let people speak their mind (within reason- I will delete odious stuff, but the number of people banned here in ten years is still under a dozen, and some of that number are people who have been banned multiple times- Brick Oven Bill, take a bow), and if people want to talk about something or mention something interesting in the comments, I put up a post about it. I don’t understand what readership capture is supposed to mean, to be honest.
I’m not going to do everything readers suggest or want, and to be quite honest take a great amount of joy in telling you all to go to hell every now and then, but I will do what I can to accommodate as many commenters as is reasonable and possible. In my mind, a blog without readers and commenters isn’t a blog, it is a diary. If I wanted a diary, I’d get a leather bound journal with heavy-bond pages and buy some tea and listen to emo music. I want a blog, where people are free to say what they want, argue with each other, insult each other, and make each other laugh.
I do understand how several posts on one topic could be tedious, and I will encourage everyone to respond to each other more in the comments, rather than making front page posts, but I fail to understand how this place is becoming an Atlantic style circle-jerk. If anything, we are the anti-Atlantic. All of our front page posts have been attacking each other and our ideas, not heaping praise and doing the faux-courtesy thing. If anything, I thought I was too drippingly sarcastic with ED, not overly deferential in the least. My only real complaint is I wish he would respond more in the comments to people. Throw a damned elbow back, ED.
And btw- that is why I like having ED around. We agree on a number of things, and we disagree on many more, and I like arguing with him. I like having variety. Now that he has outed himself as more of a centrist libertarian than a Republican, I’m actually looking for a front page poster who is a honest broker and Republican. I’m also trying to hit the lottery, lose weight, and trying to figure out how to get Yvonne Strahovsky in bed.
Ehh. Whatever. I’m rambling. More coffee.
BTW- first snow here today. Rosie tore out into and went all “BWAWWAWAWA” spastic and ran around like a lunatic, while Lily went out, stepped in it daintily, and then looked at me with the wounded “Why? Why are you doing this to me? Why are me feet cold and wet and why do they feel funny? Why must it be so cold when I potty? Why do you hate me so?” I really need to make a videotape of her walking in the snow. Each step she acts like she is being forced to walk on razors.
Joe Beese
Your telling commenters like myself to go to hell – and the obvious pleasure you take in it – is why I like this place.
Keep the faith.
debit
Did Lily turn Cockney all of the sudden?
And I love you, Cole, and I love this blog, but please, for the love of all that’s holy, can we stop talking about ED for a little bit?
Blue Neponset
Maybe the comments of the front pagers could be a different color or have an avatar attached to them. That way they wouldn’t get lost in a 200 comment thread and we could follow the conversation a little better.
I should add that I would only accept the avatar idea if you used my little pony or the care bears as avatars.
jacy
I have no idea what this “readership capture” is or if it’s supposed to be good or bad.
I guess that shoots my hipster cred all to hell.
Judy in SD
I for one am not a commenter (until today). I do however read the comments and derive great pleasure from the wit, snark, and intellect shown by those who do comment. As much as I enjoy the front pagers I see their function as to be a jumping off point for the discussions which follow. If a “circle jerk” is detected it is easy to just amble right past, no harm no foul.
Robertdsc-iphone
LOL. Love that crazy Rosie.
Just don’t pick them both up, John. Broken shoulders are a bad idea.
c u n d gulag
John,
Just keep doing what you’ve been doing. I read this site ALL of the time. I just don’t always leave a comment. If I have something to add, I will, if not, I go on.
So, please continue this ‘circle-jerk’ as is. It’s most enjoyable.
R-Jud
If I remember correctly, you, that dog, and the snow don’t mix, Cole. Be careful this year, huh?
It’s also snowing over here in Blighty. Both cats are having periods of snow mania.
You know, “Now I’m in the house and now I’m out and now I’m up the fence and groom groom groom and fuck yeah birds! I’m gonna chase ’em and now I’m inside again and take this, bootlace on the floor, I never liked you anyway and houseplant nom nom nom… hey… it’s warm in here… it’s kinda… it’s… zzzz.”
Every other hour. Entertaining.
steviez314
Put vaseline on your dogs’ paws before walking in the snow and cold.
And remember to wash the paws afterwards to make sure they don’t bring in that tasty rock salt.
David Fud
the only honest conservative I’ve seen is Larison. Get him to come over occasionally or something.
Or, maybe you know others. You are the one who introduced me to Larison’s writing.
taylormattd
And this is example number 1000 of why E.D. sucks big time. Put aside the fact that he routinely repeatedly posts stupid, poorly thought-out, fact-free libertarian tribe (while refusing to correct any errors), he almost never reads or participates in comments.
For christ’s sake, this topic was beaten to DEATH in the comments in DougJ’s thread, where it was repeatedly pointed out how annoying it is that E.D. never reads comments and instead posts multiple front-page rebuttals, and what does he do? Publish a front-page rebuttal clearly showing he didn’t really read the comments in the first thread. ARGHHH.
The Moar You Know
“Readership capture” is meaningless if you’re doing it for fun.
One thing I think we can all agree on – we do not want to see a John Cole diary.
Return to your regularly scheduled mayhem.
Svensker
The readership capture is because of the pets, silly. Plus getting yelled at.
arguingwithsignposts
Since Joe Beese is in my pie filter, can someone explain to me how readership capture is all Obama’s fault?
and to the topic at hand: “It strikes me that commenters are what make a blog”
heh, indeedy. want to see the view from some random person’s window?
Just Some Fuckhead
John, thank you for taking my criticism to heart and posting this latest job opening. And good luck with that.
Yankee Devil
I hardly ever comment, preferring to read the front-pagers and pour over the comments. For the most part, the comments are intelligent, funny (often hysterical) and well worth reading. While I don’t always agree with ED, he is always interesting. Keep up the good work, Mr. Cole.
danimal
Good luck with that.
It could be interesting, but the 1000+ comment threads would be tough to slog through.
david mizner
@jacy:
You mean you’re hip to a ridiculous concept that’s a few hours old? Readership capture is something like a prison riot, when the freaks and criminals take over the place. It’s anarchy, absolute anarchy, I’m talking the stuff of Julian Assange’s fantasies…
Seriously, fwiw, I like this blog because it’s sort of old school, if that can be said of a blog, lots of posts, not much deep thinking or essay-writing contests, bloggers mixing it up with commenters, swearing and spitting…what this place is missing is an actual lefty — and no, you can’t be both a lefty and a bot.
eyepaddle
I had to google–good call on Yvonne Strahovsky btw, who knows, maybe she digs “internet famous” people so then you’ve got a shot.
Also Weight Watchers–you wind up swallowing pride instead of food, but then all of a sudden you don’t have to go buy new pants, so it’s kind of a win that way.
And with a house full of Tunch, Lily and Rosie haven’t you already won at least one lottery?
singfoom
I found this place for the snark and stayed for the commenters. Sure, I get yelled at and told I want a pony and called firebagger and I don’t get the general GG hate some have, but you’re my kind of bastards.
Cheers!
P.S. ED is what he is, but the fact that he bitches about us elsewhere instead of directly at us is poor form.
grey_hawk
You know, if one of the primary purposes of having so many voices on the front page is ideological diversity and a broad challenging of viewpoints for their intellectual rigor, why not make the next addition a full blown socialist (or even communist, if you’re feeling frisky)?
Such creatures do exist, and in the wide range of opinions they’re at the very least as credible as overt libertarians (specifically, libertarianism as a quasi-independent worldview and not as a slight variation of other existing worldviews). And their views are even more widely held on a global scale.
Between that and libertarianism, imagine the balance.
Plus it would carry the essential benefit of, if taken to sufficient extremes, sporadically enraging many of the commenters (which I gather is a feature and not a bug around here).
danimal
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh my God, if I’m posting virtually the exact same comment as JSF, maybe your readership really is captured, whatever that means.
Steve
“Readership capture” is a takeoff on regulatory capture, which is the phenomenon where regulated entities like banks actually end up running the regulatory agency that is supposed to oversee them. I hope Erik had his tongue at least a little in cheek when he coined the phrase. That’s how I took it, anyway.
Joshua Norton
I’m actually looking for a front page poster who is a honest broker and Republican.
And I’m looking for zero calorie pizza.
JGabriel
John Cole:
Baahahahaha! (Yes, I literally laughed out loud at that. I’ve become very cynical.)
I think you may have been the last of the batch, John. And that’s only if you think you were an honest broker when you were a Republican — which I’m not sure if you do or not.
.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: He’s saying he likes pie.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@David Fud:
This. I now read him regularly.
@taylormattd:
And most definitely this. I don’t come here to have a FPer of all things stuff that kind of naive, libertarian claptrap down my throat. Why you brought him onboard, your justifications notwithstanding, is beyond me.
Unless it was to provide another springboard for the best comments section on the internetzeztzez. In that regard, E.D. does a good job.
Libby
Speaking as someone who stops by to read the front page several times a day, and who often does not have time to wade through 200+ comments on every post, I don’t mind getting summary posts about the latest bitchfest on the FP. Only way I can keep up with what’s going on here.
And I’m not getting the ED hate at all. The guy, right or wrong, obviously puts time, thought and effort into his posts. He’s giving the reg commenters something to bitch about — at great length. And fully half of any thread is regs talking to each other and not addressing him at all. If he doesn’t have time to wade through the comments and answer every single one, and it bothers you, then don’t talk to him.
The guy gives up his free time to do this. His posts generate discussion. That’s the main point of being a front page blogger. Isn’t it?
Poopyman
My one takeaway from this post is that I had to Google images of Yvonee Strahovsky to find out who she was. Perked up my morning a bit, so thanks!
WyldPirate
Off topic but useful–an article on why the blather on the deficit is basically a big fucking sideshow from Alternet:
Why the Deficit Is Simply Not an Economic Problem Now, or in Future Decades (by Joshua Holland)
Here’s a tease:
h/t to Digby.
dmsilev
I assume you’ve already filled the openings for a Yeti and a unicorn?
dms
matoko_chan
@Joshua Norton: Larison is about it, but he IS a WEC and a member of the League of the South.
that kinda messes with the honest part.
but he has deleted my comments too, so he and ED should get along.
:)
Cole, maybe i missed this, but are you keeping Rosie?
Alex S.
I got introduced to the political blogosphere back in 2008. My first favorite page was Nate Silver’s 538.com. The commenters were mostly liberal but there were a few conservatives as well. Many of them were just obnoxious, but some were pretty reasonable, actually, and they liked to engage with liberals. The one that really stuck out was a guy who called himself “Virginia conservative”. I think that he would be the perfect Republican for this page. You could call him a paleo-conservative. He was very fond of G.H.W.Bush and if it had been up to him, the Republican nominee in 2008 would have been Gary Johnson. He set up a political forum to discuss the late phase of the election and the Obama presidency, but the forum is more or less dead now. I think, however, that this might be his blog. I am pretty sure, actually.
WyldPirate
Damn, no sooner than I post something O/T along comes another thread were its fits perfectly.
JGabriel
@David Fud:
Cole said he was looking for an honest Republican. Not a conservative. I’m not sure an actual conservative could be a Republican, though I’m sure most Republicans would self-identify as conservative (rather than right-wing extremists).
Thus the difficulty in finding an honest Republican.
.
matoko_chan
@WyldPirate: it also represents Salam-Douthat stratification on cognitive ability.
the republicans have memetically engineered a base that is “low information” (read low IQ) enough to vote against their own economic interests and to essentially be impermeable to reasoned argument.
taylormattd
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: and not only does he rarely read comments, when he does, he gets all emo and whines like a little bitch, posting shit like this:
JESUS CHRIST. People kissed his ass for god knows how many posts, politely trying to point out egregious factual errors, and he ignored them. They also overwhelmingly voted to have him stay he posted his sniveling semi-GBCW front page post.
matoko_chan
@JGabriel: good catch.
“honest” republican is an oxymoron.
it cant be done.
John Cole
@matoko_chan: I think so. All her behavioral problems that she displayed for a week disappeared, and my vet and I think she may have been acting up because she was mad at me for going on vacation. She has been perfect since then.
General Stuck
I am tired of this subject, and don’t care what ED does or doesn’t do. Though it is hard to imagine any front pager, or for that matter, any commenter to brazening declare he/she is above such menial tasks as bothering to engage in comments, at least on this particular blog.
but I trust senor Cole to do the best thing for HIS blog, I just work here.
Bobby Thomson
I thought the whole point of the original “Atlantic circle jerk” post was that you all are too nice to each other and no one has been snatched or neutralized.
Fuck! A Duck
I really wanted to give Kain a chance, but he has proven to be so dishonest an interlocutor that there is little point to his posts other than the flame war.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Really? Have fun. Honest broker, Republican…never the twain shall meet.
Poopyman
@david mizner:
There are plenty of lefties amongst us commenters, and I think that where this blog earns its cred is when Cole (it’s him most of the time) tosses out some red meat and the comment section lights up.
I’m imagining a leftie front-pager’s comments would be a bunch of “me too”s, but maybe I’m wrong about that. It’s been known to happen from time to time.
Judas Escargot
@jacy:
I have no idea what this “readership capture” is or if it’s supposed to be good or bad.
That phrase really did piss me off, especially coming from someone who aspires to write for a living.
Those two words encapsulate the top-down authoritarian/conservative mindset better than anything else I’ve read in a long time.
BarbF
I’m not here that much, and comment rarely, but I will say that Ed’s circle jerk comment only told me one thing.
He’s the only jerk around that I see. And he adds absolutly zip to a discussion.
Oh yeah, one more thing. If he told you he was a Republican, but he’s really not, then didn’t he lie to you?
Rick Taylor
__
Good luck with that.
__
Seriously though, I hope you succeed. It would be good to have an honest broker to speak with on the other side, and all the other recommendations you’ve given in the past (like Captain Ed) have fallen by the wayside.
Joshua Norton
That’s pretty much my take of the situation. At least he doesn’t mindlessly echo the latest Limbaugh/O’Reilly talking points, or cut and paste directly from the RNC morning email blast, and then act like he’s the most clever person in the world.
Svensker
@Joshua Norton:
LOL
Fuck! A Duck
Note: The ‘Atlantic Circle Jerk’ construction was withdrawn by the original emailer as being imprecise and was replaced with an alternate, although more cutting, comparison: the George Will-Fred Hiatt Jerkfest.
Lucky you, John, you get to be Fred Hiatt. Tina Brown will be calling shortly.
Sputnik_Sweetheart
@Blue Neponset: I was thinking Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle characters. John would be Splinter, of course.
matoko_chan
@taylormattd: for example, a lot of people here defended his fetus=slave bullshytt.
that is how Cole got into the circle jerk.
If ED had promoted creationism or Fetal Personhood or climatology denialism would he still have gotten a pass?
he just spews regurgitated dead-white-guy philosophy which has already been PROVEN FAIL.
politesse.
/spit
If Cole et al give ED a pass on one stupid thing, it just encourages him to say others.
make him stand and deliver. make him produce “good conservative ideas” instead of just waving his hands.
take no quarter.
kerbstomp him Taibbi-style when he says anything stupid.
otherwise this blog is just the lowrent Atlantic.
Lolis
@taylormattd:
Yeah, E.D. annoys me. I want him gone.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Those are contradictory today. An honest broker would acknowledge that they don’t know everything; that they’re viewpoints are biased and that they need to work with people from the other side who know the same thing; and that, ultimately, we are all in this together. This applies to people that are conservative or liberal.
Republicans today are willing to destroy the country to get back into power.
t jasper parnell
Later today I will introduce a crazy little dog to snow. Right now, however, an hour past the usual freakout-for-a-walk time she sits in the big chair self-wrapped in a blanket trying to figure out when the cold stops.
Ross Hershberger
There must be an honest Republican around here somewhere. Where did I put that lantern?
Personally I like the back/forth on the FP. It’s more efficient to read the FP than panning the comments for nuggets. I realize commentary is where the action is here but it’s an inefficient way to get information. I have work to do & don’t have all day to scan 200 comments in every thread for the rest of the story.
Admiral_Komack
@taylormattd:
“For christ’s sake, this topic was beaten to DEATH in the comments in DougJ’s thread, where it was repeatedly pointed out how annoying it is that E.D. never reads comments and instead posts multiple front-page rebuttals, and what does he do? Publish a front-page rebuttal clearly showing he didn’t really read the comments in the first thread. ARGHHH.”
For a person who doesn’t read comments, E.D. Kain certainly is a whiny so-and-so.
This place needs a new ombudsman.
dan
Stupid Thought
by ED Kain
70 or so comments as to why that idea is stupid
Why That Thought is Stupid
by DougJ
How Everyone Missed My Point
by ED Kain
60 or so comments as to why the explanation doesn’t really make the idea any less stupid
Losing Interest, But That Thought is Still Stupid
by DougJ
Let Me Try To Explain Again
by ED Kain
30 or so comments saying “enough”
TheYankeeApologist
@matoko_chan:
This is the most effective part of the whole Republican defensive line. It borders on religious fervor, doesn’t it? Try explaining reality to a Mormon, and that’s what it was like being liberal in Texas and screaming to anyone that would listen they they were voting for their own doom.
Fargus
Here’s my problem with ED, such as it is: it’s the conflict between his libertarian philosophy expressed through his posts and the (non) application of that philosophy in his dealings here.
The TSA kerfuffle is an illuminating example. It’s masturbatory market-worship. On a blog, the readers are the “market.” The will of the readers is expressed through the commenters, since they’re the ones actually taking the time to register their opinions. It may or may not be a representative sample of the readership, but it’s what we’ve got. But how does ED treat the commenters? By berating them, ignoring them, and accusing them of “readership capture,” whatever the fuck that is.
Seriously, I have some sympathy for the thought that a blog’s contents shouldn’t be solely determined by its readers, and part of what I love about this place is that it challenges readers, both on the front page and in comments. But ED’s meta-posts on the topic, combined with his almost complete refusal to engage with the commenters, seems to belie his philosophy that the marketplace ought to have some say in what bubbles up to the top.
Sorry if this is a little incoherent. It sounded better in my head.
Alex S.
@dan:
You forgot
Shut the fuck up!
by John Cole
100 commenters saying that’s why they visit this blog
30 comments about Tunch
You Don't Say
My Bodhi (who looks exactly like Lily except totally different coloring) started out the same way, as if the snow was some sort of hellfire to be avoided, but turned into Rosie and raced around the backyard like a whirling dervish.
matoko_chan
@John Cole: awwwww.
(((heartmelt)))
they can be extremely possessive of their person, and kindof express classic separation anxiety as bad behavior.
i cant have another one until im done with school and have my own place, but they are really the only kind of dog for me.
if they are dogs at all.
:)
Libby
@Joshua Norton:
Thank you for acknowledging my comment Joshua. The rest of you are all wrong, about everything, and I demand you reply to my comment immediately or get kicked out of the comment section. /snark
Mark
Cole, the Yvonne Strahovsky choice raised my esteem for you in a material way.
norbizness
I don’t often use Family Guy quotes for my analogies (this breaks a string of 2,197 Simpsons references), but I think E.D. may be the ugly girl, and Meg is pretty much any other front-page person here…
[On being President of the tobacco company]
Peter: And they give us a lot of perks, too.
Ugly Girl: (to Meg) Hi.
Meg: Who are you?
Ugly Girl: I’m the ugly girl sent to stand next to you to make you more desirable.
lawnorder
Hehehe.. my younger cat gave me that look today too. He does that every winter, since he was a kitten 3 years ago. You would think he would have learned by now that white stuff = freezing feet.
Elizabelle
Stories about Rosie and Lily in the snow go a long way towards “readership capture”.
Whatever that means.
Pictures and video help too.
You fuckwits. (There. Just because we’re allowed to say that here and no one storms off in a huff.)
kindness
Thank you John for your stance. You don’t know how many times I have wanted to let Andrew Sullivan (and many similar sites) have a piece of my mind but couldn’t.
Look at the web. You can get the completely controlled sites where everyone has to agree or they are booted. You can get the complete anarchists. You can get some that try to maintain a balance but it’s a hard nut to keep. Invariably a site will attract like minded folks. Then…..circle jerk time.
C’est la vie.
jacy
@Mark:
There’s a joke in there somewhere, but it’s still too early for me to find it.
Mnemosyne
@Fargus:
I think it means, “John actually listens to his readers when they complain or correct him. Doesn’t he know that being a blogger means distributing wisdom from on high without having to interact with the common people?”
salacious crumb
Lily is more like “John, I don’t understand, Look I don’t have the doggy brains for this…..adversity-in-cold-makes-you-strong-thing but this is a doggy thing!”
i know… i have way too much time on my hands…
schrodinger's cat
Isn’t readership capture, i.e. a captive audience for anything you post (from politics to the escapades of a certain serene, rather large white kitteh and his puppeh minions to your house cleaning routines) the point of having a blog? I don’t see what EDK’s problem is.
Fargus
@Mnemosyne:
Oh noez! The readership has captured John!
Wait, doesn’t regulatory capture mean that the regulated have captured the regulators? Doesn’t that then mean that readership capture would mean John has captured his readers?
Oh noez again!
I guess the other thing that bugs me about ED isn’t that he posts somewhere, and posts about BJ when he does, but that he posts condescendingly about BJ over there. Saying shit that amounts to, “Yeah, I see myself as the one guy to keep those assholes honest” is a pretty dick move.
kc
to be quite honest [I] take a great amount of joy in telling you all to go to hell every now and then
To be quite honest I love it when you tell us all to go to hell. That’s my favorite thing about this blog. Well, that and the Tunch.
mds
@Libby:
Yes, ma’am!
… Oh, wait, was that a snark tag? I thought it was a regular expression search for “snark”.
@grey_hawk:
I nominate JW Mason, aka lemuel pitkin.
Alternatively, with center-right royal libertarianism already accounted for, how about someone like Kevin Carson? Actual left-of-Wilkinson libertarianism exists, despite Cato and Reason’s skewing of the distribution, and having a mutualist Wobbly on board would at least be unusual. Though I don’t know if he has a sufficiently quirky sense of humor, he has to have a pretty thick skin in a world where “libertarianism” has been co-opted by one slice of the royal libertarian spectrum.
Remind her via Twitter to drink her usual cup of chamomile tea, don’t call her on the phone after 9 PM, and she should be fine.
… Or, wait, did you mean your bed?
schrodinger's cat
I think EDK reads the comments that’s why he is so emo over them. He doesn’t want to engage with us but complain by writing another front page post of how we are all being so mean to him. If we tell him in the comments how thankful we are receiving the wisdom he delivers from his Olympian heights, I am sure he would engage with us more. He doesn’t want a debate, what he wants are sycophants. Libertarianism for me, authoritarianism for thee.
t jasper parnell
Well color me shocked the crazy little dog loved the snow.
Why do people find ED hopeless? Beer and deregulation. He was wrong and could never admit it. His claim was Carter increased the legal amount of home-brewed beer allowed led to the explosion of microbreweries; folks pointed out that it was the deregulation of breweries on the state level that led to the explosion of microbreweries. He was told this on other sites and called the difference “semantic.” It’s not. Here, for example, is the story of a successful microbrewery:
Brachiator
I don’t read the Atlantic or its comments, and so don’t give a shit about whatever the complaint is supposed to be about.
What more could we ask for?
Dynaboy
You might start with spelling her name right ;-). If that doesn’t work, you should send her some Balloon Juice swag. I’m sure a Tunch coffee mug might soften her up.
FlipYrWhig
@david mizner:
Maybe the actual lefty and the libertarian will have to learn to live with one another, Odd Couple/buddy cop style, which has all kinds of comic potential.
Tsulagi
What an emo post.
Your house, your rules. Post what you want and how you want. Who you have as frontpagers falls under that umbrella rule as well. Readers decide whether they want to visit or not. Simple. Wouldn’t cater to the feelings of any particular reader(s) trying to make them feel comfy.
Personally I’d like if you had a real Republican or full teabagger frontpager. My dream would be Bachmann. But suspect their feelings would soon be hurt by commenters and they’d leave. Nothing wrong with a quickie, though.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne:
To be fair, that _is_ one blogging model. (I’ve been citing Yglesias; Digby does it too. “Here is something I have thought through to my own high standards. Now you may discuss it among yourselves while I prepare my next piece.” Benen doesn’t muck around in comments.)
It’s just not the one this place adheres to.
I think it’s the idea of having a running dialogue _with the other front-pagers_ but not in comments that cloys here. It’s not the culture. It makes the commenters feel accessory to the discussion by creating an upper tier of Real Discussion that is closed to the peons. It suggests that commenters should be content squabbling with one another down below, while the mandarins go about their enlightened business.
schrodinger's cat
What irritates me about EDK’s posts even more than the fact that he doesn’t engage with us much in the comments, is his inability to admit that he is wrong. Other front pagers don’t have that problem. That’s one of the reasons I like Balloon Juice. Well that and Tunch!
fasteddie9318
@FlipYrWhig:
It doesn’t just extend to participation in comment threads. ED writes as though he’s an authority lecturing his readers; it’s the same sentiment he expresses in his comments about this place in other forums. He’s trying to TEACH us ignorant wretches, not interact with us. It’s little wonder why he gets so petulant when his students don’t accept his wisdom unquestioningly. I had young faculty when I was an undergraduate who reacted in exactly the same manner to challenging questions.
The flaw in his view of things is that he’s not, of course, an authority on anything. He’s a college kid who thinks Ayn Rand is cool and managed to get a couple of writing gigs at other blogs. Benen at least has some credentials behind his pronouncements. Digby, though she doesn’t engage her readers, doesn’t (to my eye, anyway) write as though she were bringing insight to the unenlightened horde. Yglesias, I think, is the best analogy; frequent pronouncements of “great wisdom” from Some Dude whose credentials are that he’s, um, been blogging for a while. And Yglesias, surprise surprise, is routinely called on his bullshit in comments.
fasteddie9318
@dan:
Good start, but you forgot:
No, dude, I really think that was a stupid idea, but whatever
by DougJ
Well if everybody here hates me maybe you’d just like me to leave
by ED Kain
300 or so comments saying “please stay” and “stop being such a baby”
STOP BEING MEAN TO ED!
by John Cole
100 or so comments saying “how’s Tunch?”
Martin
@Joe Beese:
Since it will apparently make you feel better, I suspect it’s near unanimous among the commentariat that you do indeed go to hell.
scarshapedstar
I claim this thread in the name of Spain.
No takebacks.
Odie Hugh Manatee
“I have no idea what this “readership capture” is or if it’s supposed to be good or bad.”
In light of his other comments both before and after this one, it came across to me as The commentators are running the show, which is not right..
I like this place because John, Doug and the others get into the comments and mix it up when people say things that get their attention. They don’t respond to every single comment and yet people here are quite happy with their level of engagement.
We know that they are engaged, we know that they are not just posting something and leaving everyone to observe and comment about it. They jump in and toss pithy comments, humorous comments and in depth responses to questions or challenges to their line of thought. E.D. is none of this. It seems that he prefers to ignore legitimate criticisms and focuses on the people who ‘call him stupid’, using them as an excuse to not engage in the comments. That’s a cute dodge and little more than that.
I think this mosh pit is a bit more than he is used to when it comes to reader engagement.
scarshapedstar
@JGabriel:
I can think of several honest Republicans, actually. David Duke comes to mind.
I guess we need additional criteria.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Martin:
No argument from me.
TooManyJens
It’s the certainty that E.D. will post a front-page response to this that depresses me.
“Balloon Juice: Hot air, ill-informed banter, and posts about E.D. Kain”
scarshapedstar
@Alex S.:
How about
Need help picking a new video card
by John Cole
437-comment flame war
30 comments about Tunch
catpal
“readership capture” comes across as another jerk-like comment – kinda like commenting about balloonjuice – on another blog. I voted against ED Kain – because his writings contain too many bizarre assertions without admissions that ok- I could be wrong about that – aka – no reasonable responses in the comments.
I generally dislike any single-minded, only-my-opinion-matters peoples – I can get that anytime having a conversation with my republican family members.
Love this blog – the discussions, the snarky comments and info, the pets, and especially the Tunch, Lily, Rosie pics and stories.
scarshapedstar
Also, 2 new ideas.
1) I’m gonna take the pie filter one step further. Whenever someone on the list posts, it will change their name so that you can’t recognize them, and it will change the post to a loving comment about one of John’s pets.
2) FYWP, but since this is a forum now wouldn’t it be great to add Kos-style reader blogs and put them in a separate section called “Readership Capture”?
JPK
I don’t comment much either, but I’m here just about every day and I always read comments. I like most of the front-pagers, but it’s the hit and miss riffing of the commenters that I love. Plus I too have a scroll wheel on my mouse, so it’s really easy to skip past the various trolls (front-pagers and commenters alike) I don’t care for. Keep a-goin’, all.
Sentient Puddle
Oh Jesus. All you people asking who Yvonne Strahovski is need to start watching Chuck. John has attempted to browbeat you all into it already (or if he hasn’t, he should).
And if you ever figure it out John, lemme know.
pragmatism
someone tell ED that playing the victim all the time is not a good look. even for palin.
Death Panel Truck
Wanna risk getting banned from BJ? Tell John that the Dreadful Grate was the worst, most overrated band in the history of music.
You’d be speaking the truth, but Cole doesn’t tolerate dissenting opinions about the World’s Shittiest Rock Band©®™ ;)
Catsy
JC:
Do you still believe in Santa Claus, too?
These days, it is logically and metaphysically impossible to be a Republican who is both honest and informed about the issues. A conservative, maybe–but not a supporter of the Republican Party.
@Libby:
Perhaps because:
His general hackishness notwithstanding, the one complaint about EDK that almost everyone here has in common is that he doesn’t bother to read or participate in the comments, which is made painfully obvious by the multiple follow-up posts that reiterate crap that has been debunked in the comments of the last post.
If you don’t spend much time in the comments, that’s probably why you don’t get the hate.
BombIranForChrist
@Catsy:
What you said.
ED seems to believe that it is beneath him to get all dirty and make comments, where people might actually hold his feet to the fire. Instead, he writes long ass posts followed by long ass follow ups, most of which ignores some obvious and important comments. If he actually responded to comments, it would be harder for him to cover up the fact that he completely ignores all facts that do not support his ideological agenda.
In other words: News flash! ED is an authoritarian type personality hiding under the moniker of “libertarian”. He thinks he is a genius and everyone else is too stupid to warrant a response. They should just do what he says, because he is saying it, because He Is Leader and we must follow his every Galtian command. I AM SHOCKED! I am so glad Balloon Juice has provided this refreshing new voice. I have never heard it anywhere before :P
As I have said many times before, my biggest problem isn’t ED’s views. It’s his banality. He’s a mediocre bore.
Midnight Marauder
So…you’re saying this isn’t a forum?
matoko_chan
Look Cole. this is your house your rules.
but you made ED into a token….by saying he has “some good ideas”.
he has no good ideas, or if he does we have never seen them.
he doesnt stand and deliver, he runs away and whines about how he gets treated.
i dont personally care if you want to keep him as a token.
but dont bitch about people telling the truth.
if you dont treat him like everyone else, if you give him welfare epics because he is Our Token conservative (/sneer), then you are no diff than Sully and ED is just McMegan in drag.
Jewish Steel
Re: Snow+dogs. One of my basenjis, on his first sighing of snow looked sheepish and guilty. Like he’d done it and wanted to apologize.
He does so many bad things, he reasons, he probably made it snow too.
matoko_chan
@John Cole: Look Cole. this is your house your rules.
but you made ED into a token….by saying he has “some good ideas”.
he has no good ideas, or if he does we have never seen them.
he doesnt stand and deliver, he runs away and whines about how he gets treated.
i dont personally care if you want to keep him as a token.
but dont bitch about people telling the truth.
if you dont treat him like everyone else, if you give him welfare epics because he is Our Token Conservative (or whatev the fuck he is this week), then you are no diff than Sully and ED is just McMegan with a dick.
sry, broken analogy.
:)
grumpy realist
Aren’t the announcements-coming-down-from-high stuff a defining trait for a libertarian? Never have run across any self-professed libertarian who wasn’t convinced that He Knew The Way To Run The World and all the evidence (historical and otherwise) thrown against his theories was just savage carping by a bunch of unenlightened statists.
(Libertarians….they mean well, but show absolutely no common sense when it comes to a) economics b) law, c) how governments work, d) people…..oh, and history…)
themann1086
Your dog comment reminded me of this Hyperbole and a Half post.
Frank
Why not as a front pager Brick Oven Bill (Dodges 10,000 bricks and grenades thrown at me). He is the definative tea bagger’s teabagger.
The Other Chuck
I find it a real scream that mentioning footwear will send you into moderation, as will spelling soshulizm correctly, but we have all these mentions of ED with nary a peep from WP.
curious
@Midnight Marauder: it’s both! and it’s not only a desert topping — it’s also a floor wax!
asiangrrlMN
@The Other Chuck: Actually, shoes no longer do. The other? Yes.
@curious: Best comment of the thread.
@Alex S.: You really got it right when you added the bit about the comments on Tunch.
And, with that, TUNCH!
Miss Mouse
I’m firmly in the camp that believes responses should be in the comments rather than the front page. Why? When I enter the site, I generally have a days worth of posts that I need to catch up on, and they read in reverse order. When there are 5 or 6 posts that are referring to arguments made previously, I skip over them because I don’t know where the thread starts and where the responses are in between the new content. That’s really the only reason. I won’t stop coming to Balloon Juice, and I still really love the content at this point, but if we’re being honest- I skip all the response posts.
It’s not a circle-jerk thing. It just makes readers feel out of the BJ loop if they aren’t able to jump on every update 24/7.
YellowJournalism
@Miss Mouse: As someone who is desperately trying to keep up after going back to work, I second this post.
Blackfrancis
@YellowJournalism: I agree. I often go back and catch up at the end of the day. By then I am out of the conversation, and all of the things I would have had to say are already there, except written way better than I could have.
Joshua
@Alex S.:
Good evening Alex S. and the rest of readership of Balloon Juice.
Although I am a paleo-conservative like the writer you mention, I’m sorry to tell you that he and I are not the same person. I guess the mantle has passed.
Now whether I qualify as an “honest broker and Republican” depends on your point of view. Yes, I suppose I could see myself as both, but perhaps others see me differently.
Nevertheless, just wanted to drop a note to clear up any confusion.
Thanks!