First Responders Bill and START both pass. How anyone in their right mind could not look back at this as the most productive congress and two years of a Presidency in generations is beyond me. Not to go all Reifenstahl on you, but this is how I feel after the last couple of weeks (and props to Harry Reid and Pelosi):
Time to primary that sumbitch.
FormerSwingVoter
I probably shouldn’t be raining on parades, but the First Responders bill is just an extension of something that’s been kicking around for years now, IIRC.
New START, on the other hand, is a really big deal.
Linkmeister
I have a dream that Jim Bunning will primary Mitch McConnell next time around.
John Cole
So were HCR and DADT repeal. Your point?
MikeJ
@FormerSwingVoter: “Kicking around” ain’t shit.
Kryptik
Yeah, after the shit sandwich of the tax deal, the repeal of DADT, 9/11 workers extensions, and finally ratifying New START definitely helps make up for it. Still fucking shameful about the DREAM act though. Hope the 5 Dems that voted against cloture for that found a bag of flaming shit in front of their office doors.
EDIT: Ugh. And I see the Zadroga bill was passed only after a compromise to get past that piece of shit Coburn’s block, cutting the amount of benefits and the length. Because ‘we couldn’t afford it’, despite the asshole backing 50x more in useless tax cuts. What an asshole.
New Yorker
butbutbutbutbut, John, he didn’t get the public option. It’s all his fault too, for, um, not buying wine and roses for Susan Collins or something. Plus, there’s still disease and war and greed and poverty around the world. He hasn’t fixed it yet!
I’m voting for Nader in 2012. There’s obviously no difference between Obama and Sarah Palin.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
The left does not deserve this president. Obama succeeds where the snarkass WATB left has failed miserably.
Is our lefties learning?
Magic Eight Ball says: Outlook not so good.
Funkhauser
You don’t understand, Cole!
In my counterfactual fantasy, President Obama would have used his magical powers to push these programs through without having to worry about vote counts in the Congress. He would spend all his time going to the people and rallying them to call their Senators and demand immediate action. And the Senators would jump at the whims of their constituents, and kick lobbyists in the teeth because they never needed to raise re-election funds ever again.
And then co-President Hillary would ride in on a stallion and show Ben Nelson the error of his ways, then elect a progressive Democrat in Arkansas to replace Blanche, but Blanche wouldn’t care because she would have been shown the error of her corporate-lovin ways and enlightened.
On a slightly more serious note, they need to step it up on judicial appointments.
Maude
I waited for the START vote.
Gotta steal Hillary’s book title…Living History.
She didn’t, but we did. (sorry for the dig but I have low self control)
PS
I am happy.
I am not satisfied, but so what? I am happy. Enjoy it. Then go back to work next year. There’s plenty to do, but sometimes you just gotta say: I am happy.
General Stuck
It is all so weird, even surreal. All the wingnut obstruction, obfuscation, and general assholishness, suddenly broke like a inflamed boil on the buttocks of the republic. And a little decency and common sense broke out. I don’t know what to make of it really. I’m guessing they are shedding these loads of nihilistic politicking to make room for the main event over funding HCR. But nothing surprises me anymore, and just maybe, the handful of relatively sane wingnuts, though thoroughly still wingnuts, will start acting like a responsible opposition. I won’t be holding my breath though. But will be enjoying the bitter sounds of proven wrong souls, on the progressive side of our little hell’s half acre. Yes I will.
The Dangerman
The next two years are going to massively suck, but I’m looking forward to the next 6 years of Obama’s Presidency. If we can survive the next 2 years of nothing getting done, 2012 through 2016 should be a time for Obama to truely clean up Bush’s mess.
FormerSwingVoter
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought this was something that had been passed multiple times over the last few years, like the doc fix for Medicare.
That said, I’m amazed at how much has gotten done during the lame duck session.
EdTheRed
Also, too, how’s that “how’s that hopey-changey thing” thing workin’ out for ya?
Funkhauser
I like that photo, but it reminds me that presidential elections are largely decided on unemployment and economic fundamentals, and then I stay up at night.
beltane
A month ago everyone was wondering how Lisa Murkowski would respond to her victory over the Palinistas. Would she automatically fall in line or would she be willing to give the GOP the finger every now and then. So far, it looks like it’s the latter.
FormerSwingVoter
@General Stuck:
My guess? The more reasonable elements of the GOP (Snowe, Collins, Brown, Murkowski) are looking at the incoming Congress and realizing what horrors they’ve unleashed. All of a sudden they’re voting for reasonable things because they know that nothing reasonable will have a chance of passing over the next two years.
cat48
I’ve seen articles already about the 111th Cong. “edging the Great Society.” I’ll take that. They really have done so much, all 3 of them. Johnson’s work was under appreciated at the time; and because of Viet Nam doesn’t get the proper credit now.
burnspbesq
@Kryptik:
A shit sandwich for an appetizer, followed by a main course of seared ahi with maple-wasabi glaze, and a big-ass hot fudge sundae for dessert. Yes, if that’s the prix-fixe menu, I think I can be persuaded to order.
gwangung
Co-sign.
It’s good. But it can be better.
Let’s go get better.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
If you read through the earlier threads, the nihilists are butt hurt over their obamafail meme going up in flames.
They’re also frustrated that their call to shut down congress over the tax cut, saying the republicans will just block everything, anyways (Lucy-Football) has been brutally exposed as sophomoric and amateurish.
Mike in NC
If there’s anybody who can make used car salesmen everywhere look good, it’s that prick Kyl.
Screw the Party of No dead-enders for their lame attempt at launching “Cold War: The Sequel”.
MikeJ
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: I always thought that was Wham-O’s comment on MUAs.
david mizner
Aside from his perpetuating and/or not even trying to address the mounting budget-busting, right-crunching militarism, unemployment and foreclosure crises, and dangerous power of the Big Banks, he’s done famously.
different church-lady
Must we continue with the false dichotomies?
General Stuck
@FormerSwingVoter:
That’s probly a good analysis, while dems still have the numbers to where their votes mean something.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
Congressional scholar Norm Ornstein told NBC’s First Read. “I think this one (Obama Agenda 2009-2010) edges the Great Society. It is at least on par with the Great Society.”
“For all the dysfunction (in Congress), it was just astonishing what they were able to get done.”
——————
Sniffle. If he only was a fighter who had moved overton’s window with his bully pulpit.
John Cole
@beltane: Actually, some of us knew exactly how she would behave. She was never a hard right conservative to begin (they’ve been bellyaching about her as a RINO for years at Red State), and then they went after her.
daveNYC
Yo, chill. I’m quite glad that she’s not President, and more than happy that she’s running the State Department. And given the smoking hole in the ground that the Senate and House will be over the next two years, you’d better be hoping that she keeps doing good work; because the only place that Obama can hope to make any progress is going to be in furrin relations.
AnotherBruce
@General Stuck:
I think that once the election season has passed, better legislation gets passed for a couple of reasons. Because lame duck congressmen and senators have nothing to lose, and because non lame duck congressmen and senators feel that they can get away with voting their conscience more due to the fact that the next national elections are two years away and the electorate has long term memory disorder.
MikeJ
@different church-lady: It’s either false dichotomies or close down the blog. Take your pick.
Zandar
Enjoy this, folks.
Because the next two years are going to be complete hell.
cleek
i’ve been more impressed with Reid than Pelosi or Obama, in the lame duck session.
Pelosi has always been there. so this is nothing new. Obama’s job is to cheerlead and cajole until he gets to sign. but Reid has had the really tough job. and, somehow, he’s really delivered these past few weeks. the Senate is the difference here.
most impressive.
i hope the fire under their asses stays lit for another 2 years.
burnspbesq
@david mizner:
This is year two of an eight-year presidency. Patience.
Carnacki
John,
Some how Obama is to blame for Earl Ray Tomblin not supporting the state senate caucus’s decision regarding the acting president pro tem. I don’t know how, but someone has to take the blame and Obama=Manchin, according to the yard signs.
Sasha
Hey, wasn’t Obama toast just a month ago?
Gotta say, always bet on black. ;)
beltane
@John Cole: I thought the same thing but was told that she’d shut up and obey orders. Winning a write-in campaign in the face of a full bore teabagger onslaught is an impressive accomplishment. Lisa Murkowski now owes the GOP a little less than nothing.
numbskull
@different church-lady: Apparently.
Zifnab
9.8% Unemployment.
Bush made a big fucking mess. Obama honestly hasn’t even scraped the surface of the Bush mess. He’s spent the last two years fixing the Clinton mess. (Health care, financial reform, DADT – let’s face it, this is the Clinton legacy).
We’ve had a lot of progress, but it’s still really hard to see this far away from any sort of finish line. And the difficulty level just got cranked up to 11, now that we’ve added about 70 fresh faced new lunatics to Congress.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@david mizner: here– here’s a tissue.
weap, weap, weap, weap, weap….
Don’t worry, there’s still a chance that Obama will veto DADT.
The Firetards – never have so many, been so wrong, so many times. Oh, I forgot, they all backed Edwards.
Kryptik
@Zandar:
Which is why we were demanding most of this shit get done NOW before hell erupts. Surprisingly, pleasantly so, shit mostly got done.
I still want to shit double on the assholes blocking the DREAM act though.
beemer
Apparently so. Never mind the 1970s Republican approach to everything coming from the White House; you dirty f*cking hippies are ungrateful!
numbskull
@MikeJ: You win the inter-toobes today! :)
The Dangerman
@burnspbesq:
Better yet, after winning in 2012, he won’t have to worry about reelection and can proceed to get some of the really unpopular shit done (for example, closing Guantanamo).
General Stuck
@AnotherBruce:
That doesn’t make sense to explain why the wingnuts like Snowe, Collins and others broke with their leadership after two years of total lock step. They are not leaving congress. I think FSV has it about right. But the wingnuttery will likely resume next congress when there are many more wingnuts and the very few moderate repubs won’t be able to join dems to break filibusters, which will likely be moot since the House will be controlled by the craziest variety of winger. This was likely the last go around for anything much liberal, or moderate, for that matter, getting passed the next two years. Where the main focus will be to not let the House wingers destroy our country and maybe take the world with them.
cleek
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century):
nope
wengler
I actually think the Democrats have found a new strategy to pass legislation. Tell the Republicans that they don’t get to go home for Christmas. They should’ve done this for the tax deal too.
It’s pretty silly to get caught up in the love/hate relationship people have on this blog with Obama, because come the State of the Union the pendulum will swing definitively to the other side. If Obama chooses to get on board and help pass the highly unpopular Republican agenda, he will have no one to blame but himself.
Also, these ‘wins’ are only seen as wins in a very narrow political sense. Republicans in this Congress have been batshit insane. Starting January 4th that insanity will get pumped up at a factor of 10. Medical help for 9/11 responders would’ve been as unpopular as a ‘I love puppies’ resolution in almost any other Congress. Ditto for START, which was first proposed by that leftist hippie Ronald Reagan.
I applaud the Democrats for finally finding some leverage against Republicans(vacation time), but it is silly to call these 2 years a win. We as a country are going in the wrong direction. This Congress took some incremental steps(financial bill, HCR) but even loaded those with loopholes and corporate giveaways. We have a system-wide institutional failure at work that will require much more than incremental steps to solve.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
OH NO!
Rachel Maddow has become a full blown Obot!
msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#40774380
Say it isn’t so, Rachel! Say it isn’t so!
PS President Obama to hold newsconference at 4:15 EST. Hopefully, he’ll punch some dumb shit hippies.
Maude
@daveNYC:
I am a nasty piece of work.
The assistant SoS runs State.
Her job is very limited.
I am hoping that Obama will get a new SoS.
One that doesn’t put a magnifier to diplomat’s privates.
I have no idea how the next two years will go.
AnotherBruce
I’m very happy with what Obama has been able to accomplish, but I’m really tired of the hippie punching. It’s like a broken record here. It was interesting for about the first five posts. The next hundred or so, not so much. It seems like there are about 10 commentors who really get into it. I have a feeling that there is a sizable silent majority that are bored with it.
Really I just want to celebrate the victories that our side is able to accomplish without pretending that there was something to prove other than what was accomplished.
Nick
@wengler:
I think the strategy was lose an election. All the Republicans wanted was to win, that having happened, they became more willing to play.
General Stuck
@wengler:
I will call it a win, because historically, it was. You can call it what you want. I don’t care.
david mizner
It’s really astonishing what the extremity of the GOP has done to everyone’s perspective. Don’t get me wrong — START, unemployment bennies, the 9-11 bill — these are all “victories,” but they’re only victories because the GOP has tried to block what five years ago would’ve been standard bipartisan stuff. The DADT repeal is something of an exception, although that had 70 percent public support. The GOP would try to block a bill that says puppies are cute, Obama would take a month to pass it, and people here would start crowing about what a successful president is.
Meanwhile, unemployment rises (it’s gone up about a point and half under Obama), our rights are vanishing, the banks grow more powerful, etc, and Obama reinforces every conservative frame he can find and readies to weaken Social Security.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
I don’t understand how anyone could complain about President Obama’s Mission Accomplished.
.
.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Zifnab:
Maybe that’s because most finish lines in real life are only in the imagination.
However, if you take the last 100 years as a lump, the trajectory has been steadily toward progressive policy and advancement of middle class society and middle class power. The upward zigs and downward zags are just the stuff of … well, blogs and parasitic politicians, mostly.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@different church-lady: what false dichotomy?
Even legislative scholars Norm Ornstein and activist like Rachel Maddow are concurring with Cole. And don’t even know Tunch.
burnspbesq
@The Dangerman:
“Better yet, after winning in 2012, he won’t have to worry about reelection and can proceed to get some of the really unpopular shit done (for example, closing Guantanamo).”
And when the Republicans try to hang that stuff around the neck of the Democratic nominee in 2016, Gillibrand can say, “wait, you can’t tell the difference between a blonde woman and a black man? Here, take my glasses, you need them more than I do.”
A Humble Lurker
We don’t allow ourselves to enjoy the good despite it eventually coming to an end, we allow ourselves to enjoy the good because it will eventually come to an end.
We can steal ourselves for the next battle and enjoy the calm before the storm at the same time. So let us do so.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@AnotherBruce:
Maybe blogging is not the hobby for you. Punching is what blogging is all about, unless you are blogging dried flower arranging. I mean, there is always that.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@burnspbesq:
Gillibrand > governor whatshisname from montana
Mary G
I think he just waited until the rage-o-holics burned themselves out and were too tired to fight anymore and just wanted to go home for Christmas, then he pounced. I am thrilled by how much Obama, Reid and Nancy Smash got done these past two years.
The Republicans did their part by shamelessly adding to the deficit and shamelessly piling on earmarks that they had just run against. It just took the wind out of the Tea Party’s sails.
Sure, there’s still a lot to do, but if someone had offered me a wager in 2008 that we’d have a health care bill, DADT repeal, START ratified and everything else, I would have bet big against them and lost. Good thing I don’t gamble.
Meep-meep indeed.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: can you imagine. bunch of fags are so emotional, they don’t realized DADT is a sell out.
burnspbesq
@david mizner:
“these are all “victories,” but they’re only victories because the GOP has tried to block what five years ago would’ve been standard bipartisan stuff. ”
Paraphrasing Don Henley: those days are gone forever, you should just let ’em go.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
I just love watching the butt-hurt nihilist hippies throw a hissy fit over the DADT and START and the 9/11 first responders victories.
You just knew it would happened. Obama-hate can’t be contained.
This, once and fall all, exposes them for what they are.
crack
I agree that this has been an especially productive congress. It’s annoying how much of this shit is getting done in the lame duck session. Really fucking annoying. It’s like the only time the Ds get anything done is after they lose. Remember, HCR was after the MA debacle.
burnspbesq
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century):
Gillibrand – Schweitzer sounds good to me. Pending future developments, of course. In 2002, who knew who Barack Obama was?
The Moar You Know
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: This would be the truest thing ever posted on this site. “Progressives” should get up and thank whatever deity they believe in for Obama every goddamned day of their miserable, nitpicking existence, because he’s delivered 90% more of what they’ve asked for than anyone since FDR.
They will, of course, destroy him in 2012 by way of thanks, as is their wont.
General Stuck
@burnspbesq:
I was going to respond to miznerable, but can’t improve on the above.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Mary G:
I think that the GOP Obstructathon worked in our favor.
What would be the big, splashy finish for their brand of politics? A big lame duck session in which they successfully opposed everything and gave the country a giant Fuck You for Christmas (you know, that all important event on their spiritual calendar?)
I think they just obstructed themselves into a funk of gloom and doom and ran out of bullshit at the end.
I look forward to their next incarnation of the Obstructathon and the GOPFuckapalooza(tm).
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@david mizner:
I thought you guys were against “bipartisanship”.
You wackos really have to get your memes straight.
P.S. How’s your buddy John Edwards doing? Now that Elizabeth is finally out of the way, has he moved the kids in with his new-age-hippie mistress?
SIA
I feel deeply contented and happy. What a great bunch of Christmas presents from the suddenly spine-ful Dems and the Prez. Huzzah!
Ajay
I am no history buff, but I think this lame duck session must be the most productive lame duck session ever in history.
This is all happening because for Rs have been giddy after they got their tax breaks and decided to be reasonable for some time. That goes on to show what trouble these bums will create next year. I dont think anything will get done as the house is going to be taken over by loonies.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@The Moar You Know:
Sure, the left will try its best to destroy Obama. But remember, the American political left is all about fail and noses cut off to spite faces. I can’t want to see all the goodies we get from two more years of their asinine carping and the Republicans’ asinine dickishness. I think we will do fine, actually.
kdaug
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: You know who else talked about “the long arc of history”?
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@The Moar You Know: This.
Sasha
Dunno about you, John, but I think that Obama has shown himself to be a more-than-adequate black male.
Quaker in a Basement
Even the completely batshit insane Chucky Krauthammer can’t deny the awesomeness of what Obama accomplished in the lame duck session.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century):
Exactly. Get all the cornholers into the military and kill them off. Brilliant, really.
Again McCain plays eleventy-seven-dimensional super Admiral’s Son Level Dicking Chess.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@kdaug: Joseph Goebbels?
wengler
@ General Stuck
You can call it a win if your team goes out there and scores a touchdown while losing 51-7 to the best team in the league. Politics has always been a game of expectations.
Obama was expected by many of his supporters to give everyone a magic pony. That of course didn’t happen. Failing that though, I had an expectation that he wouldn’t thwart the prosecution of the massive amount of wrongdoing and criminality that came out on the Bush administration after they left. Obama decided crimes by people in power shouldn’t be prosecuted. It was personally very disappointing. He followed that up by signing all sorts of legislation that he watered down on Republican whims but got no Republican votes out of. There is literally no gain in doing that and yet he did it anyways.
And finally he brokered a tax deal with the Republicans that only raises taxes on the poorest taxpayers in America while giving the richest of the rich a massive cut in the inheritance tax. All without telling the Democrats in Congress. Yeah a win for you if you can call it that General Stuck. If your expectations were that Obama would be as bad as Bush.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
Reminder:
President OBama’s Victory Lap news conference coming up shortly at 4:15 Eastern Standard Time.
Please, please, for Obots like me, Mr. President, punch a few hippies. I can’t help it, I just love watching the clown show hysterics.
Joe Beese
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/21/AR2010122104598.html?sid=ST2010122104609
Three cheers for The Supreme Leader!
JAHILL10
What has happened? I leave the country a week ago and all the rage on every thread of this blog was how Obama had given the rich mo-fos everything they wanted and would get exactly zero in return and I get back and turns out that (except for DREAM) a whole lot of stuff got done. The pres goes from being a spineless wimp who preemptively gives in to Repub bullies to a 11th-dimensional chess master. I like the way this guy operates. Slow, methodical and relentless. It may not be as emotionally satisfying as punching John McCain in the kisser, but I’ll take a win, or lots of wins, any day!
(Besides, I have this great mental image of McCain going home tonight and punching his teddy bear Mr. Scruffums in frustration! Cindy having wisely already left to one of her other houses…)
Resident Firebagger
Cole did you even read this fucking post… that you wrote?
balloon-juice.com/2010/12/22/review-board-for-alleged-terrorists/
Never mind that DADT was largely a product of the military willing to let it happen, or that no one, Obama especially, was even talking about the first responders bill before Jon Stewart made it a big issue, or that few people seriously believed that even the teabaggers were batshit enough to bring down START. Some things are absolutes.
I truly loathe this administration for locking people away in cages for life without charging them. I loathe them for diddling while people lose their homes (see, HAMP), and I loathe them for what’s about to happen to Social Security.
If Constitution-shredding was wrong under Bush, it’s damn sure wrong now — especially since many of Obama’s abuses are even worse.
Sasha
@Ajay:
And, after the most productive Congress in decades, stuff grinds to halt who will get the blame — Dems who actually got shit done, or Repubs who, upon assuming power, went screwball?
2012 has the potential to be yet another “wave” election in the Dems favor.
jl
I agree that Obama and the Democratic Congress have done a lot of good things.
I disagree with what Obama is doing on indefinite detention and Gitmo, but not sure how much of that is his fault and how much is due to Congressional obstruction.
My big misgiving is that the Obama administration policies have not been good enough on economy and finance, specifically unemployment. And here I think it is clear that the reason is that Obama has been too deferential to the conventional wisdom Washington Consensus neo-liberal economic poo-bahs, like Rubin and Summers.
Unless the employment situation improves dramatically, the next election will be unpleasant for Democrats.
So, yes, I agree with Cole, but people need to pester WH to change its economic policies.
People can whine about what is ‘do-able’, and make all the excuses they want. But the economy will have a very big influence on the results of the 2012 election, either for WH or Congress, or both. And that is something that excuses and special pleading will not change.
I approve very much of what Obama has done, except for the economy and some issues of domestic security. The latter might not be entirely his doing, but I think he has seriously messed up on the former issue.
The Dangerman
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century):
My recall could be deceiving me, but weren’t people pissed when Gillibrand got Clinton’s seat?…
…and Tester would look good in the VP slot. Or vice versa.
AnotherBruce
@General Stuck: I agree that it’s not the whole answer but I think it’s part of the answer. Most people are burned out after an election and tune out politics. Then there are junkies like us.
burnspbesq
@Joe Beese:
Dude, you’re late. We already decided that sucks. What else you got?
Or, more to the point, why are you so fucking stupid that you can’t or won’t recognize a genuine accomplishment when you see it?
Do we have to sodomize you with the Dildo of Perspective?
Joe Beese
@jl:
The buck stops… elsewhere.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@Resident Firebagger:
Firebaggers are retards.
3 of the 4 chiefs of OPPOSSED repealing DADT.
agrippa
Well, it is the economy. It is a rough time for millions.
So many people seem to have lost sight of that. The GOP missed it completely. The Democrats in Congress and the WH underresponded to a really critical situation. The employment situation is not responding well; we needed a stronger stimulus and did not get it. We needed, amoung other things, a re instatement of Glass Steagall. We did not get it.
Both were necessary. And, there was little time. There are a lot of RW people reacting to how the GWB admin worked [ a disaster that none of them want to acknwledge] out, a recession, a half breed as president. Just one damn thing after another.
We were going to have a RW conniption fit. That, and Dems staying home, were two reasons for Nov 2010.
We are in the middle of this temper tantrum. people who are the prisoners of their passions will act badly. And, they will do just that.
Now is not the time to misindentify the enemy. The enemy is over there across the aisle.
AnotherBruce
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Na I’m good with punching. I prefer to punch wingnuts is all. Plus, watching the same old punches all the time gets old.
a1
Look, it’s great he got DADT and the START treaty through – they’re good policies that make the country better. Good for Obama. But jesus – the snarky Justin Bieber level fandom you have for the guy can get really silly and embarrassing sometimes.
“The Failures Keep Mounting?” 1/10th of the country’s out of work! That’s a failure – a big one. And if it’s at that level in 2012, then he’ll be building houses alongside the white Jimmy Carter in 2013, no matter how hard you wave your foam “Obama’s #1” finger and yell about how awesome the START treaty is.
Mary G
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Exactly.
I found Gingrich’s tenure quite amusing and expect more of the same for the next two years. Darryl Issa will spend a fortune investigating things like how much money the fertilizer for the White House vegetable garden cost and how the produce could have been purchased for less at the supermarket and other pressing and significant national issues like the scary New Black Panthers and sharia law taking our great land.
Regular people will continue to suffer high unemployment and terrible housing markets. While the Republican House whines about how unfair the new financial regulations are, big banks will keep raising fees on everything they can think of. Corporations will feel free to be even more evil.
All good news for Democrats in the end.
Mnemosyne
@Joe Beese:
Ah, I was wondering where Joe was! And only three hours late with his Obama-bashing, too.
So, Joe, tell us again how Obama personally opposed DADT repeal and this was all kabuki theater that would lead to zero action. That one never gets old.
Bob L
I was wondering what the heck happen to the battle to the death from the right.
@Mary G:
That makes sense. The fact that by winning they had to put down the opium pipe and deal with reality isn’t fun for them
lou
One sour note on the 9-11 First Responders. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Scumbag) managed to whittle the bill from something like $10 billion to $4 billion. the bill paid for itself by closing some loopholes for millionaires.
Apparently it’s more important to him that millionaires get to keep all their chump change than helping dying heroes. He also got the senate to impose a cutoff date of five years. Maybe they’ll all be dead by then.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
I am definitely stealing that.
Nick
@david mizner:
repealing don’t ask, don’t tell would have been “standard bipartisan stuff” five years ago?
Joe Beese
@burnspbesq:
A Democratic President signed a bill passed by Democratic legislators.
[golf clap]
John Cole
Please, you emo fucks. Stop. Of course this is not the end, of course the economy blows. But some objectively good things happened, and some people are happy and *GASP* giving their political leaders a little credit.
This is why we point and laugh and call you manic progressives and suspect a number of you are GOP trolls. You’re sick in the head. You have a compulsive need to depress everyone.
You’re the political equivalent of what would happen if Debbie Downer and Marvin the Paranoid Android were to mate. Just bugger off.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@The Dangerman: the firebaggers are terrible at politics. let’s remember they all supported John Edwards in 2008 (in addition to losers like Halter and Lamont).
General Stuck
@wengler:
yadda yadda yadda ya. Expected Ponies? not by me. Did you really expect Obama, and especially as the first black president to clean up in two freekin years, the mess made by thirty years of white governance? Shame on you for that expectation placed on Obama’s shoulders.
I expected Obama to make a good faith effort to fulfill his campaign promises, period. And he has done that more so than any president in my lifetime. There have been shortcomings and some failures, most of which were created by others. And done it all, while hounded morning noon and night by a gaggle of childish, yet loud so called “progressives”, to accomplish miracles in the first two years of a presidency, with total opposition of the opposition party, including some members of his own party in congress. And I most certainly classify passing universal health care as a miracle of sorts, after 100 motherfucking years of fail from our well scrubbed white libtard masters of the dem party.
Success? HELL YES, with bows and flows of angel hair. Now collect those bitter prog tears, cause I want to enjoy their sweetness over the Holidays.
Mnemosyne
Now all we need is Oscar Leroy to come explain to us this is the worst possible outcome because we never would have had to wait until the lame duck session to get DADT repealed if only Obama hadn’t wasted his time calling the WNBA champions the same day. That one never gets old, either.
blackwaterdog
The Reifenstahl in me appreciate the shout out.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@AnotherBruce:
Alright.
Box!
burnspbesq
@LikeableInMyOwnWay:
Consider it my Festivus gift to you.
Cermet
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Boy, are you and most BJ’ers in for a shock about the middle class and the economy – when peak oil gets even closer, the middle class will be a thing of the past as will the US as a superpower; of course, all boats will sink but other countries are far more ready to live on $10/gal and higher oil but we, having an economy mostly built on cars/trucks x-ing large distances are in deep shit. Let us all talk about all these other issues while our heads are buried in the sand. Oil fields are running low, gaint finds are rae, often in deep water or full of acid and yield less oil for energy in – people, the foot steps are near. We need to focus on energy. AGW is real but won’t bite (for us) for some time but we don’t have ten years before peak oil.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Pictures please.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@lou: Hopefully, he’ll be dead by then.
Nick
@Resident Firebagger:
this is a grave disservice to Sen. Gillibrand, who made this a major issue
Kenneth
Why aren’t the Bush/Cheney Junta in fucking jail yet?
Why are we STILL torturing (including PFC Manning)?
Why are the Banksters STILL in control of the entire country?
Why are we STILL in two endless PermaWars, blowing up Muslim babies and Afghan wedding parties for the benefit of Haliburton?
Why did we pass a law FORCING people into a broken healthcare system?
The only “choice” we have is between a Fascist nightmare (Republicans) and a Corporatist hell (Democrats).
This country sucks.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
Obot Alert
On CNN: President seconds away from his victory lap news conference.
Tuttle
Paraphrasing Don Henley: those days are gone forever, you should just let ‘em go.
Yes, we should all just surrender to the inevitable march of fascism.
Centism’s Greatest Hits (like “blacks are 3/5ths of a human” and “If we give him Czechoslovakia …”) is just as big a pile of rancid shit as Don Henley’s corpus of mealey-mouthed pop garbage.
4tehlulz
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Deadspin already is working on that.
singfoom
I give credit to this administration and the 111th Congress for passing much more important legislation than I ever expected.
Good for them, they deserve the praise they are receiving.
At the same time, I reserve the right to still be disappointed in the lack of prosecution of high level lawbreakers in the previous administration as well as waiting for a response to the systemic fraud present in our banking system.
So good job, Obama. Now work on that pesky rule of law thing.
Andy K
@Cermet:
Oh, snap! The entirety of the world’s problems weren’t solved before noon today! Sing it to the mountain tops!
Nick
@Joe Beese:
I’m sorry, isn’t this what we want?
I’m not sure what you’re looking to happen.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Cermet:
Energy? We’ll just insert a turbine intake into Glenn Beck’s ass and light up all of North America.
Beck’s colon is the gateway to more energy than exists in the entire Saudi oil reserves.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@burnspbesq:
Sigh. Now I have to get you something and I can’t top your gift.
:(
celticdragonchick
@PS:
Co-sign as well.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
News Conference being carried on ALL 3 broadcast networks!
burnspbesq
@Kenneth:
Don’t like this country? I will personally sponsor you for a work permit in the country of your choice.
Wait, what? You don’t want to leave? Then get off the fucking sidelines and do something about what pisses you off.
This is not a fucking spectator sport.
Ajay
@Sasha:
It will be the dems getting the blame as media will make it so. Besides people think President has all the power and if things dont get done, it will be the fault of president. Rs would be more than happy to let economy tank; blame will be on Obama regardless.
Why? I dont see that happening. Given where we are today wrt unemployment, bailout etc, almost all due to R policies under Bush, yet we got a major wave for R. Common sense is missing in American Voters. They want results and are generally scared of non white color. In addition, Rs are very good at blaming others for anything that is wrong with country/policy. Media will bend over backwards to accomodate them.
steveinillinois
@New Yorker:
As Homer Simpson would say, it’s funny because it’s true.
I live in Illinois (Obama’s home state, for chrissake) and know a lot of people active in local Democratic politics. During the ’08 primary season, I can’t tell you how many of my friends–all lifelong Democrats–puffed out their chests and declared that no way, no how would they vote for Obama. When I asked them, “what if he’s the nominee?” they’d just mumble something about superdelegates. My personal fave: my John Edwards-loving friend who condescending allowed that Obama might make an adequate VP candidate. Once Obama sewed up the nomination, I had to listen to weeks of nonsense like “I’ll hold my nose when I vote for him” and “he’s blowing the election.”
Since then, one by one they’ve all made a point of publicly announcing (usually with a Facebook status update) that they are “done” with Obama because of this or that issue. Just this morning–mere hours after the DADT repeal signing–one of my FB friends said she had “given up” on Obama because of the net neutrality compromise.
For the most part I detest the GOP, but man, I sure do envy their party loyalty and discipline.
Cermet
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Might work, for a while.
Oh, I too am happy for Obama’s victory (for us all) – he was right and I was wrong – his approch was the only correct one that would hold. Hope he does the same for energy.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Funkhauser:
If “And then co-President Hillary would ride in on a stallion and show Ben Nelson the error of his ways” I would forgive her and Obama for everything else they did for the rest of his term, even if it involved the two of them making out in the Oval Office on camera.
NR
I’d just like to point out that two years ago, a Democratic president was elected with historic majorities in both houses of Congress and a once-in-a-generation mandate to make major change in a progressive direction. And now, after massive midterm election losses, we’re reduced to crowing about a few billion for 9/11 first responders. Yes, it’s a good thing that they’ll be getting that money, but it came at a cost of giving many many billions more to the super-rich – money that could have been used to help a lot more people.
I’m happy that DADT got repealed. I’m happy that START got ratified. I’m happy about Lily Ledbetter. But I’m not happy about the continuing destruction of the American middle class and concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands, I’m not happy that the Democrats have actively enabled that trend, and I’m not happy that they used their once-in-a-generation mandate to do it.
The bottom line is that these past two years have been great – if you’re rich. If you’re not rich? Not so much.
wengler
@General Stuck
By all means, enjoy the sweetness. Just no more insane mood swings on this blog. It’s not shitting in the punchbowl to say ‘yeah these have been good things except…’. We have a lot of problems in this country. One person isn’t going to solve all of it. Who said that? Yeah, Obama did.
And while Obama isn’t the sort of transformative leader that I’d hope he’d be, there’s still a chance for him to do his part to help the country out of its big giant mess. He’s not going to do that by receiving unqualified praise from his supporters. In fact he has asked him to make him fulfill the promises on the campaign trail. Nearly all of the personal incentives(laudatory press coverage, villager high praise, lucrative post-Presidency options) are geared in the opposite direction of progressive change. We have to make him do the right thing. That will be a very hard thing in the coming two years as he will be under intense elite pressure to pass the highly unpopular Republican agenda.
Jamie
well I’ll see what comes next, but I’m much happier now, than I was on election day. But I’m still not expecting anything out of the new Congress.
AnotherBruce
@LikeableInMyOwnWay:
I’m waiting for the new congress to begin it’s first session. I think that will focus minds wonderfully around here and other places. Can’t wait for the first official Issa investigation or the newest iteration of Ken Starr.
Kenneth
@burnspbesq:
I’m seriously considering expatriating to Europe to get away from the racism, class warfare (on the non-rich) homophobia, and militarism of America. They don’t have those things in western Europe.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
I LOVE IT!
The press is fawing.
This is gonna kill the haters.
Nick
@NR:
sorry about your incredibly unrealistic assumptions.
Mino
I wonder if some of the Republican senators expecting to be teabagged next cycle have been encouraged by the Alaskan experience.
Perhaps they too will run as write-ins and wax the nominees of the wingnuts. Mike Castle probably could have done it. It will depend on individual state regs, of course, as to the practicality of it.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Another Christmas party ruined by loose talk.
azlib
For me this session was a mixed bag. It was nice to see DADT and START approved, finally. HRA is a big step forward, as flawed as the bill is. I hope a few Dems learned some techniques about how to fracture the opposition, since it will be harder come January. It was nice to see Republican opposition to both DADT and START fall apart. It was also nice to see the House leadership be nimble in working the issues, especially the tax bill and on DADT.
The tax bill was a big disappointment, as is overall economic policy. The economy is just not Obama’s forte and it shows. I do hope they get a clue, since without robust job growth all this other stuff becomes irrelevant to his reelection prospects.
Like a lot of progressives, there are days I am just befuddled by the Dems and other days where they come through. Such is politics.
Chyron HR
Q: What do you call a ‘progressive’ who is ecstatic when Republicans filibuster a gay rights bill, but morose when said bill is passed and signed into law?
A: “Joe”.
numbskull
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century): Least self-aware, self-proclaimed Democrat I’m aware of.
timb
@Zandar: I think the hell will be taken care of within the first 3-6 months. Someone will win the healthcare showdown in March/April. The Democrats, having a majority in the Senate, should be able to prevail, but Mitch McConnell, surely one of the more arrogant people to try to herd the Senate cats since LBJ first tamed the place, is going to make ruining the country his reason for getting up in the morning.
Remember, Republicans only win when they depress the vote. Their voters ALWAYS vote. Their main goal will to make everyone so distressed and disgusted that the “I haven’t voted in over 20 years” crown goes back to their apathy. They certainly have tradition and a lazy media on their side.
Bill Arnold
@agrippa:
This. We probably would not be where we are today if a few hundred more people had voted for Franken in 2008, or if people had shown up for the 2010 midterm elections.
burnspbesq
@Kenneth:
If you think there’s no racism or class warfare in Europe, you are severely misinformed. There is no logical explanation for Ireland other than the German government protecting the German banking sector, including the German bank that just agreed to pay $550 million in fines and penalties to DOJ in order to settle potential criminal charges of conspiring to evade US taxes.
NR
@david mizner: Yes, this is exactly right.
The problem with triangulation (or “compromise,” as Obama likes to call it) is that every time you move toward the Republicans, they just respond by moving further right. Without any counter-pressure on the left, the “center” you keep chasing moves further and further right with the Republicans. Case in point: The fact that passing the Republican health care reform bill from 1993 was hailed as a great progressive victory.
Keep up the triangulation, and the Republicans in another ten years will make today’s crop of teabaggers look like sane, reasonable statesmen by comparison. The only way to change this dynamic is to fight for truly progressive principles – and that’s not something that the current batch of Democrats has any interest in doing.
agrippa
yes, the economy is terrible. But, if you consult the orthodox economists, I think that you will find very few workable ideas on how to get going again.
There are heterodox economists such as Krugman or Stiglitz with good ideas. But, economists like them have no real influence. So, the truth seems to be that the economy will ‘fix itself’. Solutions are defined out of existence.
All that does not mean much to people who are out of work and/or losing their home. They will stay home or vote “no”.
Especially when the party in power seems to be so apathetic about the whole thing.
But, good stuff was done. No question about that!
NR
@Nick:
You mean my incredibly unrealistic assumption that a candidate who was elected on a message of change would actually implement that change?
Yeah, that one was my fault, really.
Nick
@NR:
and the public moves with them, what does that tell you?
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
@numbskull: don’t hate me because I’m winner. bitterness is so unattractive. Plus, bile leads to cancer. but then again, I imagine most miserable lefties are suicidal over the triumph of the pragmatists.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Zandar:
I like sweeping predictions too. I predict that we outmaneuver the New Nabobs of Negativity in the GOP, and reelect a fine president.
Also, we can take comfort in the fact that there will not be a Rubicon Season Two.
On the down side, Big Love is in its final season and Chloe Sevigny is going to be missing from cable tv for a while.
sy2d
How anyone in their right might could not look back at Obama’s first two years as master classes in how not to negotiate against yourself and squandered opportunity is beyond me.
agrippa
@Bill Arnold:
Got it in one, Bill Arnold.
Sasha
@Ajay:
I believe that the public is getting tired of the Tea people, and the media isn’t going to get as much millage from them. The narrative of the dominant GOP pulling itself apart and underdog Obama pushing through is ratings catnip.
And if the next two years turn to crap, it will be very easy to say “Look, these GOP bozos were put back in charge and they screwed everything up again. Vote Democrat.” Won’t affect the 27-percenters, but the rest of the nation will listen.
Maude
@General Stuck:
Good day for Obots.
joe from Lowell
@a1:
Just an FYI: it’s a put-on, done to troll people like you. It’s fun because 1) you are so relentless negative and unfair to Obama, and 2) it works every fucking time.
S Herl
Not only that, Obama got the Repubs to pass tax cuts. My God, the man’s a master negotiator.
SST
Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here. This is the war room.
Nick
@NR:
Yes that one. It’s ok, a lot of people mistakenly thought we lived in a dictatorship
water balloon
Did people actually expect Bush and Cheney to be prosecuted? I just can’t imagine that was ever possible. Johnson lied us into Vietnam and even after the Pentagon Papers came out, none of his people were prosecuted. Kennedy in turn ran what Johnson called a “goddman murder incorporated” in South America and his people were never prosecuted. Eisenhower was never prosecuted for the stuff he pulled in Iran and Guatemala.
Nixon was run out of office because he directly undermined a US election, not his “secret” bombing of Cambodia.
Iran Contra stands out as the one time people actually paid a price for doing illegal stuff. No matter who was president, Bush and Cheney were never in danger of prosecution.
Admiral_Komack
@burnspbesq:
He’s holding out for the Phallus Of Doom.
SteveinSC
It’s Riefenstahl you fucking illiterate. The one and only thing the Republicans really wanted was to continue the wealth bloating of the rich. The rest is icing or another give-away (HCR.) Obama gave it to them and loaded the gun to use against social security. Looks like the Dutch have bought Manhattan again.
Kenneth
@SteveinSC:
Indeed!
MikeJ
@Nick: From the GOS:
El Tiburon
This is getting so tired.
You act like it took some great goddamn act of courage to push for the First Responders and START. For fuck’s sake, these are issues that enjoyed massive public appeal. If it wasn’t Obama, it would have been President Clinton. It could have been President Lumponalog.
Courage and leadership is taking on the Republicans and fighting for a public option (even only as a negotiating tool)
Courage and leadership is taking on the Military-Industrial complex and ending these goddamn pointless wars that are bankrupting us and killing our people as well as others.
Courage and leadership is taking on the financial industry and pushing for real reform; not facilitating the biggest bonus in their history while middle-America atrophies.
Courage and leadership is ending indefinite detention and warrantless spying on Americans and ending the bombings in Yemen and Pakistan.
I am so sick and tired of some of you acting like Obama made a slam-dunk for something that he was supposed to do; that took no courage, that took no leadership.
Seriously, I can’t wait for the ticker-tape parade when he cuts social security. “Hey, at least he passed the “Don’t Run over Kittens law!! He’s the man!!”
rikyrah
he didn’t get the DREAM Act, but don’t blame him…ask those GOP Latinos how come they couldn’t get those GOP ers in the southwest to approve of it.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
BO is making a hella good speech on the Dream Act right now.
Eat your livers, you fucking Republican sorry ass Mister Potter wannabees.
mikefromArlington
@El Tiburon:
Your entire post is so full of lol.
chris
Unfortunately, everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea is to pass all these great things *before* the election.
The Democrats’ lack of political acumen is so complete that I can’t help but begin to wonder if it’s intentional.
Kenneth
@El Tiburon:
THIS!
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@El Tiburon:
Your fu is poo.
Suck It Up!
I can’t believe the shit I’m reading here. Sanders gives an 8-hour faux filibuster and the liberal blogosphere throws their panties at his feet. Obama shows you 2 years of solid accomplishments, many of which we have been waiting for for many years, and some of you just say……meh.
Folks like Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and other Dems should be getting much more props, much much more props than people like Alan Grayson or Hamsher or Lady GaGa or Greenwald (YES Greenwald) or anyone else who’s only contribution was a post on their blog or at DKOS. Its really fucking sad.
Note: I am not bashing Sanders, I actually really him and think he is very sincere.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
“One thing I hope people have seen during this lame duck: I am persistent.”
The president, about two mins ago.
Suck It Up!
Good press conference by the way. The media’s tone is quite different since he’s racked up those wins. AND the questions are much better.
Hawes
Again, I think we need to stop confusing the “Left” with “Progressives” or “Liberals”.
Progressives/liberals want to see progress (see how subtle that is?). They want to see it implemented carefully and steadily. Look at how Social Security, unemployment insurance, Medicare and even the civil rights movement were the slow movement of policies over time, inevitably towards a more just America.
The Left is primarily interested in revolution. While both the Left and Progressives see a flawed society, the Left wants to burn the motherfucker down.
Now, I think the Left has a valuable role to play in American politics. But they would be more effective if they understood how American politics actually worked. The Left is often right about things. Take the detainee situation in Gitmo: 100% right.
But when you look at how Gitmo came to be not-closed, you understand why today’s executive order had to happen.
Put another way: Abraham Lincoln was a Liberal. William Lloyd Garrison was a Leftist.
You needed both to end slavery.
NR
@Nick: The public isn’t moving with them. Progressive policies are still very popular. The problem is that the Democrats are not interested in fighting for those policies.
NR
@Nick: Good god, you’re full of shit. This excuse has been debunked so many times over the last two years that I’m not going to do it again.
someguy
@Kenneth:
You should. I hear it’s utopian there.
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
a put-on to manipulate the more slow-witted and emotional among us, in place of actual accomplishment.
How nice for you that American politics is all a reality show to you, to be judged by which performances make you feel manly.
mikefromArlington
@Hawes:
I’d call them more anti-establishment. It’s what they do. It’s how they coalesce their troops around causes. It’s how those that consider themselves leaders approach most issues. They are full throttle anti-establishment unless they need the establishment then they faux some support until they get what they want then go back to what they are good at doing.
joe from Lowell
@chris:
No, it’s not. The idea is to pass all these great things. Period. Full stop.
There are more important things than winning elections, you know.
stuckinred
@El Tiburon:
Courage is doing what YOU want.Don
You go right on pretending that the Senate’s 60 vote requirement doesn’t exist, Skippy.
agrippa
@El Tiburon:
Tiburon:
Instead of putting out that rant, you had best find someone to run against him. better yet: do it yourself.
Again:
“Time to primary that sumbitch” get going, time is short.
wengler
@NR:
In fairness, change is a very nebulous concept.
I think the ultimate disappointment is that even on the progressive side there is no programmatic approach to restructuring the economy to preserve and expand good-paying jobs. Free trade has been a horrible experiment that put Americans out of work and at a massive competitive disadvantage to economies that have no respect for workers’ rights and the environment. Likewise, the US tax code has incentivized the off-shoring of jobs and the elimination of competition through mergers and acquisitions. The mass amount of capital accrued by these monopolies and near monopolies has been taken out of the productive economy through low personal and corporate taxes and invested in overseas ventures or financial scams and speculative real estate lending.
Neither political party seems interested in tackling these problems or even addressing them. Considering that most of our broadcast and print media is compromised, it is going to take a large independent movement to promote actual change. It can’t just pop up every 4 years to get some person elected and then fade away.
arguingwithsignposts
I regret that I did not see this post soon enough to fully enjoy the firebagger tears. now, off to read comments. :)
ETA: show me on the doll where Obama touched you.
Mnemosyne
@El Tiburon:
You really think that President McCain would have signed a DADT repeal? Really?
It would be very helpful if you could look at the politicians we actually have and not fantasize about how your knight in shining armor would never have compromised on anything, ever. You’re in for a whole lifetime of disappointment otherwise.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
1. Me too. Ditto, and likewise. This crowd throws more beer cups on the field than the fans at a Phillies home game.
2. Believe it, this is a hotbed of Manic Progressive bullshit. There isn’t enough lithium on earth to quiet this crowd.
3. Obama has done more for progressive policy in two years than Clinton did in eight. And if he had a tech wave to fuel his economy, he’d be on track to beat Clinton’s jobs record too.
El Tiburon
@Kenneth:
Yo, ditto what this dude said.
gene108
After the 2008 elections, some people speculated Republicans would become a “regional rump Party” and no longer a major national political Party.
When you perceive yourself to be on the verge of extinction, you may act irrationally and more aggressively to stay alive.
After state wide wins in Virginia and New Jersey and picking up the House in 2010, I think Republicans are no longer scared of extinction.
They can act rationally and still be relevant and not overwhelmed by Democrats.
I think some degree of security, they are now feeling, has something to do with the lame duck session passing DADT and START.
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: The problem is that many liberal policies are indeed popular, but the popularity is only inches deep. Things are popular long the same lines as, “Why, yes, I would like an ice cream cone. No I won’t get off the couch and come to the kitchen to get it.”
General Stuck
@Maude:
Yup
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@NR:
Three things about this:
1. The last two presidents with Democratic majorities big enough to change things, LBJ and FDR, both had supermajorities.
2. Possibly because of said majorities, the Republicans voted with the Democrats a lot.
3. Both LBJ and FDR still had to compromise to get stuff through.
The reason we’re all rejoicing is that Obama, Reid, and Pelosi managed to get this stuff through even with the treasonous Republican party voting against everything just so that they could regain power. I’ll say it again, the party of Treason, led by McConnell and Boehner, planned to destroy the country just so they could run it again, and yet all of this stuff got through.
Turgidson
@azlib:
Indeed. In-fucking-deed.
sy2d
@Mnemosyne: Ha. President McCain; VP Palin. That’s rich.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@wengler:
A big structural problem is the GOP’s policy shifts toward big corporations and aggregation. It’s basically a reversal and obliteration of what we used to call AntiTrust.
Job creation has been stifled by the unplugging of the small and medium sized business engine that was cranking out jobs like crazy for years, in favor of rules and (lack of) enforcement that encourages the growth of large corporations and giganto business models which thrive by swallowing jobs into economies of scale.
NR
@El Tiburon: Yep. If the Republicans wanted to pass a law legalizing child molestation, this is how it would go:
Republicans: We want to lower the age of consent to five years old.
Obama: There’s a lot of merit in the Republican position. And we need to be bipartisan. But I’m not comfortable with lowering the age of consent to five. Let’s lower it to eight instead.
Republicans: Okay, let’s negotiate.
(Negotiations happen).
Obama: I’ve arrived at a compromise with the Republicans. We’re going to lower the age of consent to six years old. This provides important and necessary protection for five year-olds.
Progressive: Um, I don’t think legalizing child molestation is a good idea.
Balloon Juice commentariat: Firebagger! We have to pass something and this is the best we can do! Sixty votes!
Progressive: But…. Child molestation? Really?
Balloon Juice commentariat: This is a great compromise that protects the five year-olds! Don’t you care about the five year-olds?! You want them to get molested! Go back to worshiping Jane Hamsher!
(Bill passes. Adults can now legally have sex with six year-olds).
Obama and BJ commentariat: Yay! This is a great progressive victory!
MTiffany
Fantastic. I’m not too proud to say I was wrong about Obama and the Democrats. They got a lot done. But let’s not forget that just a mere 30 days ago, none of what has been accomplished looked like it was going to get done.
Davis X. Machina
190 posts, and no one’s mentioned Dawn Johnsen?
And you call yourselves ‘progressives’.
‘Feh’, I say. Just ‘Feh’.
Maude
@SteveinSC:
Nasty S.O.B.
Bill Arnold
@agrippa:
Been biting my tongue waiting for the end of the legislative session, because tax cuts are only the second most powerful motivator for current conservatives. The war will begin January 2011.
At some point it will be appropriate to start hammering Republicans on their legislative priorities for lame duck session at the end of 2010, namely an uncompromising stand for extra tax cuts for the affluent, and even more tax cuts for dead rich people. They should not be allowed to get credit for extending the temporary Bush tax cuts, since they blocked the symbolic middle-class tax cut extension bill sent up by the House.
(If you prefer, pushing back the scheduled expiration of the Bush tax cuts.)
rob!
Some of the left’s most beloved Presidents–FDR, Kennedy–have blots on their records that are WAY worse than Obama’s. Luckily for them there was no internet, so Armchair Presidents didn’t have the ability to bitch them out every minute of every day. And THEY didn’t have a completely insane, hateful opposition party.
Zandar
Time to go drink a Lube Tube and watch a Lawrence Fishburne movie.
Mnemosyne
@sy2d:
Yeah, like McCain would ever run for president against Obama. And McCain is way too smart to choose the governor of a tiny state as his running mate. It’s just crazy talk to think that McCain would ever run for president.
Did you have a serious head injury at some point between 2008 and now?
different church-lady
@NR: In this analogy, what age of consent corresponds to the repeal of DADT?
joe from Lowell
@NR:
Bender (after being thrown to the floor and held down by Clark): I don’t want to get into this with you, man.
Clark: Why not?
Bender: Because…I’d kill you. I’d kill you, and your fuckin’ parents would sue me, and it would be a big mess, and I just don’t need that.
Clark: Pussy.
a1
Wow, Joe from Lowell – way to expose yourself as a disingenuous jackass. Here’s my first paragraph:
Yet those first couple lines praising Obama magically disappear in your quote…you’re a fucking joke. FYI: John Cole wouldn’t put out post after angst-ridden post about “emo fucks” if he wasn’t passionate with anger about how stupid he thinks the “firebaggers” are. In fact, it’s this enthusiasm and passion (however misguided sometimes), that keeps me coming back here. No, I think acting like a lying assclown to troll people is more your game, Joe.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Tuttle: I think you actually agree with burnspbesq. He was trying to point out to miznomer that the bipartisanship of the past is gone, and comparing accomplishments now to the past is no longer valid.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Republicans haven’t introduced legislation in four years. You need to have control of Congress to do that.
But, please, continue with your completely manufactured and imaginary scenario of how you think the president will react to legislation that will be introduced by Republicans in the future.
El Tiburon
@Mnemosyne:
Okay, from the “I can’t believe I have to say this” file, but I was referring to any DEMOCRATIC President. It really goes without saying that we couldn’t expect any of this from a Republican. Please.
Deep sigh followed by a deep breath. Yeah, I really expect No Compromise. What I did expect was that a democratic President, unlike his Repubican counterpart, would actually do his best to fulfill his campaign promises. So when Obama promised to be “open and transparent” I actually took him at his word.
Yes, I actually believed in Obama. Guilty as charged. On issues that required a fight and courage, he was no where to be seen.
General Stuck
@SteveinSC:
Oh fuck you and your grammar nazi bullshit, along with all the other bullshit you bring. And why are you still living in SC. You fucking illiterate.
ino shinola
How refreshing, what an unusual post for Balloon Juice.
The comments are delightfully unpredictable, too.
It just never gets old.
Thank You, that is all
joe from Lowell
@MTiffany:
“Looked” to whom?
Thirty days ago, I was predicting the passage of DADT repeal in the Senate (and being called naive for it).
A mere ten days ago, I was saying that the tax cut deal was worth it, in order to free up the Senate calendar for the rest of the lame duck session, in order to get DADT repeal, START, and other bills.
I don’t want to lord this over you, but don’t tell me the equivalent of “Everyone thought Saddam had WMDs.” No, a whole lot of us knew better, and took quite a bit of crap for it from the “true progressives.”
Just Some Fuckhead
@Zifnab:
This.
Old Dan and Little Ann
Did anyone catch The Daily Show on Thusday night. Stewart slammed the msm for not mentioning th 9/11 Bill during any of their nightly newscasts. I saw the Bill mentioned somewhere on tv Monday and now here were are. Win.
sy2d
@Mnemosyne: I did. About the same time lost his shit and did everything to torpedo his campaign.
But thanks anyway for the President McCain pony.
wengler
@rob!
Rightwing businessmen attempted to recruit Marine General Smedley Butler in an attempted coup against FDR. Republicans in the Great Depression era are actually probably very similar to the ones today. FDR and the New Deal are communist etc., etc. The difference is for most of that time they were outnumbered by Democrats 3 to 1.
Sasha
Stewart and Colbert are gonna have so much damn material to work with when they come back. I can hardly wait.
joe from Lowell
@a1:
Congratulations for clearing your throat before spilling the same-old same old.
You should swear less and think more.
JPL
Wow! I just skimmed the comments. The Democrats and the President had a good lame duck season and congratulations are due. Are there still fundamental problems, well duh.
Some of the griping reminds me of a parent, who had to point out all the C’s his child got previously, rather admitting he was proud of the recent A.
OT..has anyone heard from Suzanne?
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
I just came over to say I GOT MY MUG I’M SO EXCITED I MUST GO MAKE COFFEE NAO and I find this gimornous thread, and I find I must chime in.
Yay!! /snoopy dance!
That’s all I got.
That and a mug.
trixie larue
Ohhh, this is so exciting, I must say. It’s as if Santa was right outside my house with Obama with him. Oh, as if that could ever happen. What am I thinking? I can’t go to sleep now…
It really is great news and I was just remembering Martin Short as Ed Grimley:
youtube.com/watch?v=mmFVLbuyUBc&feature=player_embedded
Kenneth
I’ll ask again:
Why aren’t Bush/Cheney and the banksters in jail?
Why do we still torture “detainess” (Newspeak for our political prisoners) and bomb civillians?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Old Dan and Little Ann: When I saw it reported, the meme was about how Democrats couldn’t get the bill through the Senate, and how they had to make changes for the Republicans. Not a think about Republicans obstructing it.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
Oh wait! I have something else, too.
Anybody who ever again says in my presence that all politicians and all parties are the same and it doesn’t matter who you vote for will get a Vulcan neck pinch from me, and will then be sat down in a room full of active service members who can finally tell their commanders who to call if they happen to die in uniform.
/puts on Obot pin.
wengler
@Old Dan and Little Ann
It also shows what a dysfunctional institution the Senate is. One person, Senator Coburn, was able to hold up the legislation at the behest of corporate interests that didn’t like the way it was funded.
SteveinSC
@NR: Welcome to the reality-based community at BJ.
@Maude: Somehow I missed the rest of your post or maybe what you posted exhausted your vocabulary. Try again?
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
DADT repeal.
Withdrawal from Iraq.
Greater effort in Afghanistan.
Health Care Reform.
Regulating Wall Street.
Mission fucking accomplished. This president has kept his campaign promises more than any other president in my lifetime.
Obama promised to run “the most open and transparent administration in history,” and by any measure, he has. Please note that anecdata demonstrating that he was not purely transparent in a particular situation does not refute this point.
Mnemosyne
@El Tiburon:
Healthcare reform? Passed.
Financial reform? Passed.
DADT repeal? Passed.
There’s a difference between “he did absolutely nothing at all” and “he didn’t address my pet issue.”
By the way, transparency is a work in progress, but apparently if Obama did not create a completely open and transparent government in his first 2 years in office, that makes him worse that Bush.
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
watching clips of the signing cermony, digya see all those fags and dykes screaming “YES WE CAN”
Obots.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
When you count the Blackwater contractors and other mercenaries, our presence has INCREASED in Iraq! Stop buying the Pentagon lies.
Shade Tail
@NR:
For the love of all that’s holy please *don’t* “debunk” it again. That tired, false “debunking” you think is so powerful was ridiculously stupid enough the first time.
Bill Arnold
@wengler:
Reading about Smedley Butler on Wikipedia, I am puzzled about why rightwing businessmen would have talked with him. Is there any definitive history writing on this episode?
jcricket
@gene108: I do wonder what the next 2 years will bring, though. Don’t you think the radically more conservative House GOP will struggle to contain its crazies? Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas. When you dance with the devil the devil don’t change, the devil changes you (and all that).
I know it’s lame to be hoping for GOP overreach as what will propel Dems back to power, but I think it’s a very real possibility.
Look at 2000-2006 and that was a way less conservative Congress. They can’t help themselves, and this time they believe their own BS.
gene108
@NR:
I really don’t know what people mean by “real change”. Unless you line up everyone, who didn’t win and disagrees with you against the wall for the firing squad to take care of, I don’t see how you can have “real change” very quickly.
I really don’t know where the far left comes from, with regards to their expectations for what America should be like.
In some ways they are as bad as Teabaggers, “who want to take their country back”, because the far left yearns for some sort of utopian America, which we may have had glimpses of in the past, where wages seemed to be better and people seemed to be more financial secure.
I think this every time I hear someone demand we raise the top marginal tax rate to 70%, because in the 1950’s income inequality was less, as if the tax code was responsible for income equality or could fix it that quickly. Also, if the top marginal tax rate meant that’s what rich people paid in taxes, no one in the 1960’s would’ve thought up the AMT, to make sure rich folks paid taxes.
Anyway, welcome to America, the land of incremental change because we are willing to live with, tolerate and often admire those leaders, who lose politically, rather than wipe them out.
singfoom
@joe from Lowell: Regulating Wall Street.
If you think Wall Street has been regulated, I have a toxic derivative/AAA Investment vehicle I’d like to sell you. Also, I’m going to have to have my contractors come into your house and take all of your stuff.
C’mon. Your list of accomplishments is fine until you start claiming that this administration has somehow regulated Wall Street.
That’s just false on it’s face.
Mnemosyne
@sy2d:
Yes, clearly it’s crazy talk to point out that, in a two-person race, there was a possibility that the other person might have won. Saying McCain could have won in 2008 is just as irrational as saying that zombie Teddy Roosevelt could have won in 2008.
You got me there.
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
Shorter Kenneth: when you pretend that security guards are the same thing as an army engaging in combat, you’ll be stupid enough to think nothing has changed in Iraq.
MTiffany
@joe from Lowell:
How magnanimous of you not to.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
Blackwater aren’t “security guards”, they’e a mercenary front group for the CIA and the Pentagon. Basically a shadow army led by right-wing zealots, and Obama has done NOTHING to rein them in, even renewing their contracts even though they’ve COMMITTED WAR CRIMES including GANG RAPE.
jcricket
@Mnemosyne: My big open questions for Obama is whether or not he can prevent Republicans from using the next two years to weaken America in nearly irreparable (cut SS, cut Medicare, repeal/defund ACA) ways.
I know the Republicans will pass plenty of crap (think this tax cut thing) that screw us, but I worry about the big stuff. If they get any of that, we could be in the kind of trouble countries don’t recover from.
Even if they’re only doing it so President Palin can get elected, we’re still plenty hosed.
Resisting austerity should probably be the Democrats #1 meme, but sadly we’re basically just nibbling around the edges and hoping voters don’t shit-can us (look at WA and CA – who are busy dismantling everything that makes the states good places to live b/c they have no ability/cajones to even articulate the need to raise taxes).
joe from Lowell
@singfoom:
This is why nobody takes people like you seriously.
Being able to imagine a bill that goes even farther than one that actually passed does not eliminate the existence of the actual, existing law.
Kenneth
If joe thinks we’e regulated Wall St., he needs to do some educational reading.
Mnemosyne
@Kenneth:
Really? We took 100,000 Americans out of Iraq but imported, what, an additional 110,000+ mercenaries right afterwards? Because that’s the only possible way our presence has increased in Iraq after the withdrawal — to add back more people than were withdrawn.
Link, please. Lew Rockwell doesn’t count.
Kenneth
@Mnemosyne:
rebelreports.com/post/116277092/obama-has-250-000-contractors-in-iraq-and-afghan
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century): I saw that. And I saw Barney Frank fighting tears….
It was pretty awesome, all told. I was especially moved by POTUS’s reference to all the gay soldiers who have fought throughout our history from the confines of the closet, telling the crowd that they will represent those people who went before and whose true identities are lost to history, and serve as role models for those who come after.
Indeed, I’m tearing up just re-capping it!
Kenneth
All Obama is doing is privatizing the military the same thing that the Bush/Cheney Junta wanted.
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
Uh, as a matter of fact, Blackwater employs many thousands of security guards.
And under the Obama administration, the firm that used to be Blackwater is employed as security guards.
I continue to be astounded by people who don’t distinguish between waging a war and not waging a war, between occupying a country and working in a country.
A million people died in Iraq when we were waging a war there. Now, that war has stopped. We have ended our war there and are in the process of removing all of the our war-fighters.
You know who sure as hell isn’t confused on this point? Iraqis.
You need to get some perspective.
dugjay
@SteveinSC:
“Illiterate” for mixing up the i and the e in “Riefenstahl”, an uncommon, foreign surname? Are you kidding?
I also like the one that is considering moving to Western Europe because they don’t have racism there. Classic.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
Blackwater has already been exposed as a front for the CIA and the Pentagon.
All your doing is repeating their corporate Military-Industrial Complex about being merely “security guards”.
joe from Lowell
@gene108:
It’s an ever-shifting concept whose boundaries are defined by what the Obama administration and Democratic Congress actually accomplish. For instance, ending the war in Iraq and withdrawing our troops on a timeline used to be “real change,” but once it was actually accomplished, it ceased to be “real change.” Similarly, repealing DADT counted as “real change” as recently as last week, but once passed by the Senate, it ceased to be “real change.”
Kenneth
And Obama escalated our ILLEGAL war in Afghanistan and has killed more Afghan civllians with our Terror Drones than even Bush.
singfoom
@joe from Lowell: I’m sorry, I think you thought you addressed my point. You didn’t. You just lobbed a low level ad hominem.
You can say “A Financial Reform” bill was passed. That is factually correct.
But to say that Wall Street has been regulated is a joke. Glass Steagal still has not been reinstated. Moral hazard vis-a-vis ratings agencies being paid by those who they are rating still exists. Banks are still paying contractors that burglarize homes they have no right to.
The financial system is still completely out of control and the bill you referred to was a bandaid on a fucking gaping chest wound.
I guess I want a “Properly-Regulated Financial Market” Pony, right?
Mnemosyne
@jcricket:
I worry more about defunding ACA than the other two. Republicans can look at exit polls just as well as we can and they know the only reason they won was by scaring the shit out of old people and convincing them that ACA meant they would lose their Medicare. They’re not going to openly screw around with either of those. But I do fully expect that any steps Obama wants to take towards increasing Social Security’s solvency — like, say, by raising the cap to $250,000 like the deficit commission recommended — will be used as “proof” that Obama wants to grind old people up for food.
Unfortunately, austerity is a worldwide insanity, not an American one. Every time Obama has spoken at the various G-whatever conferences, he’s spoken out against austerity, but getting pressure from both internal and international sources may be too much to resist. It would be nice if Obama could count on a united Congressional delegation to back him up, but you know every remaining Blue Dog is going to add their voices to the austerity chorus. It’s a hellish trap, like pretty much all of the traps the Republicans have laid in the past 30 years that are snapping on our legs now.
And Another Thing...
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century): Man, that’s an insult to retards – comparing them to firebaggers.
/snark
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
LOL @ the link to that great policy wonk and financial-industry regulatory expert Matt Taibbi.
Having very strong feelings and an ideological jihad doesn’t make someone knowledgeable. Matt Taibbi’s opinion about the significance of the financial reform bill is about as useful as the average Steelers fan’s opinion about the utility of the pistol offense against a 3/4 vs. a 4/3 defensive front. He cheers and boos really, really loudly, but he doesn’t really have the expertise to offer a useful opinion.
agrippa
@Bill Arnold:
I agree that the war will begin in Jan 2011. The GOP’s biggest tub to thump will be taxes. It can get very ugly. If I were the Dems, I would show what a blood sport politics can really be. I do not know if they have the meanness to do it. They have not shown that sort of determination so far. Too divided.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kenneth: Do you call them “Terror Drones” with the capital letters and all that for a reason? Is it some kind of 18th Century affectation? I am genuinely curious.
gene108
@Kenneth:
What laws did the “banksters” break? They made some terrible business decisions, but what laws specifically were broken, which would lead to criminal prosecution?
As far as Bush / Cheney go, when has a new President prosecuted or investigated the previous Administration for criminal wrong doing?
It would set a new and controversial precedent, regarding the use of Presidential powers.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
Yes, let’s listen to Timothy Geithner, Larry Summers, and Ben Bernake! They’re clearly working class heroes with the interests of the middle class at heart, and Very Serious People in The Village.
Kenneth
@gene108:
So basically, you’re saying that we should concede that if the President does it, it’s not illegal, and Bush/Cheney are above the law.
MikeJ
@joe from Lowell: This is the best description of Taibbi I’ve read.
Be prepared to be told that you’re just a delicate flower who stand cursing.
Kenneth
And what about the Obama-endorsed torture of PFC Manning?
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
Blah blah blah, talking point, label, saying I picked from somebody! I have strong feelings!
You aren’t even writing anything with any content. Tell me that Blackwater is operating checkpoints, like the military used to. Tell me that they’re using combined-arms tactics to drive enemy forces out of towns and take them over. Tell me that they’re calling in air strikes against formations of Iraqi fighters.
You can’t, because they’re not doing those things. They’re not doing those things because we, and they, are not fighting a war in Iraq, but rather, serving as security guards.
But you have some words that you are repeating!
Cris
Nicely put, but I think you might be able to say the same thing about many “conservative” policies as well. For example, people out here (Montana) consider private property rights sacrosanct, until property owners start making it difficult to access hunting and fishing areas. Then suddenly they find themselves more open to the idea of easements.
Shadow's Mom
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther: It was heartwarming to see. Also this video of Lt. Choi accepting the return of his West Point ring after the signing of the DADT repeal.
A lot was accomplished in the past two years. Every piece of legislation did not meet some progressive ideal, but we have moved forward several steps towards greater civil equity and balance. Listening to the C-Span2 as the senators give their closing addresses.
Have a happy holiday!
Mnemosyne
@Kenneth:
Read your own link, dumbshit. They’re not saying that they have imported an additional 176,000 contractors after the withdrawal. They’re saying that’s how many are already in the country.
The report from the DoD that “proves” an increase in contractors that I linked to above?
Jesus fuck, you’re stupid. Someone feeds you an anti-Obama line and you rise to the bait every single time without even bothering to check their links.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
You’re right joe, I have a lot of feelings, I have the feeling that this country has tortured people and still is torturing people, that we’ve engaged in aggressive wars, that Bush/Cheney stole TWO elections and we did NOTHING, that this country is becoming the moral equivalent of the Soviet Union and is despised the world over as the Banksters rape the middle class and get away with it and all our job are sent to China (we don’t manufacture ANYTHING anymore except weapons).
But boy, Obama sure looks good in those photos, doesn’t he joe?
HE’S GOT THIS!
Fucking fool.
different church-lady
You gotta admire Kenneth: he’s got his talking points and he’s sticking to ’em.
different church-lady
@Mnemosyne: It’s kinda like the Asia trip costing 200 million a day, isn’t it?
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
I didn’t like to any of them, you twit.
And this is why everything you say is useless: right here. Let me put what I wrote next to what you wrote:
vs.
This is what makes your opinion useless: you don’t even understand that there is a difference between ideological conformity to you, and actual knowledge. You like Taibbi, and assume that his understanding of the implications of the financial regulation bill is meaningful, for no other reason than ideology and partisanship.
freelancer
@Kenneth:
Hey, Herc, what if you mother and father never met? Huh?
Sasha
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther:
Curious how the Log Cabin Republicans are handling this. I would have imagined I would have heard from them from now.
agrippa
nice rant, kenneth.
you are just as much the prisoner of your passions as the tea party people who think that Obama is a muslim socialist born in kenya.
well done.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
They all work for your BFF Obama, joe. And they are all the people who CAUSED this crisis.
Fuck Wall St!
Death Panel Truck
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
4. Republicans voted with Democrats “a lot” because Senate Republicans in the 1960s were quite a bit more moderate than today’s right-wing nutjobs.
Kenneth
You think we shouldn’t take Taibbi seriously, because The Village doesn’t consider him a Very Serious Person ulike Bernake, Summers, Geithner, and Greenspan.
And Another Thing...
@Kenneth: Yea….and we’re all gonna die.
Some people are determined to be the skunk at the party.
Obama, the Dems and yes, we too, deserve a party. It’s been an outstanding lame duck session. Wisdom says you celebrate.
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
Nothing wrong with feelings. The problem is, that’s all you’ve got. You don’t have facts, you don’t have principles, and you don’t have knowledge, you don’t have understanding, and you don’t have much of a desire to adhere to the truth. And that is a problem.
Also, are you ready to take back your claim that we’ve increased the number of contractors in Iraq?
If so, what does that do to your feelings that we aren’t actually withdrawing, and to the conclusions you’ve drawn from those feelings?
MikeJ
@Kenneth: No, you shouldn’t take Taibbi seriously because he’s a fucking moron.
catclub
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: “Obama has done more for progressive policy in two years than Clinton did in eight. And if he had a tech wave to fuel his economy, he’d be on track to beat Clinton’s jobs record too.”
Of Course, the last two years of GW Bush also did a tremendous amount for progressive policy.
Kenneth
@MikeJ:
I guess you just can’t take bad language.
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
Damn! I love that picture!
different church-lady
@Kenneth: Now you’re just making my head hurt…
Chrisd
@El Tiburon:
Oh, please, I would gladly let them give Obama outsize credit for every legislative success, as long as they fucking stop blaming Congress for every legislative failure. Jesus, the amount of mental energy required to follow the contorted bad faith arguments here is exhausting.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kenneth: I live in Madison, WI, a town not particularly famous for manufacturing, and I can look around and see several decent sized breweries (manufacturing beer), a plant making scissors and similar items, a plant making stoves and refrigerators, plants making medical imaging equipment, etc. Manufacturing is not dead in this country. Try to use facts.
joe from Lowell
@singfoom:
You mean this “point?”
You know, I think it’s the “C’mon” that really give your “point” its intellectual heft.
Kenneth
@joe from Lowell:
Ok joe whatever I’m done, you’re basically saying this country as great and there’s nothing wrong with it, USA #1 blah blah blah…whatever, you just can’t accept the truth that this country is going into the dustbin of history within 10 years the Empire WILL COLLAPSE you’re not serious if you’re pretending everything is a-ok an Obama will fix it.
Kenneth
P.S. what do you think all those people Afghan wedding parties that get blown up think of Obama?
He’s creating 10,000 new bin Ladens with his illegal war.
numbskull
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century): And so proving my point.
Mike, most people don’t need to be an asshole ALL the time. But I guess if that’s all you got, that’s all you got.
El Tiburon
@Mnemosyne:
Regardless of the actual number of troops vs contractors, the larger issue is that we plan on continuing the occupation of Iraq for a long time to come.
It is also quite obvious that Obama is continuing the privatization of the military. This is stupid and disastrous.
thenation.com/blog/37877/iraq-withdrawal-obama-and-clinton-expanding-us-paramilitary-force-iraq
joe from Lowell
@Kenneth:
I gave my reasons why we shouldn’t take Taibbi seriously on this particular subject – because he lacks the expertise and facts to draw an informed conclusion.
You don’t even know what that means. You literally do not understand that there are facts and knowledge, distinct from ideology.
You’re like the Bush official who sneered at the “reality-based community.” Facts and the study of them are for losers. What matters is commitment to The One True Vision.
freelancer
@Kenneth:
I think you need a rag or something to wipe off your monitor. You came a little too hard daydreaming of that.
I’ve never said this without irony, but here goes: Why do you hate America?
different church-lady
@Kenneth: Dude, you seriously need to get your Y-axis adjusted.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kenneth: If the country inevitably is going into the dustbin of history in the next ten years, then why are you getting so upset? Why not just sit back and enjoy the ride while taking comfort in your superior understanding. Let the people who foolishly believe we have problems that can be fixed work on fixing them.
joe from Lowell
@MikeJ:
He’s not a fucking moron. He’s just out of his depth sometimes, and doesn’t recognize it.
I’m not a fucking moron, but if you were to read something I wrote about the design of engine in the new Ford Taurus, and treated it as if it was useful information from which you could draw an informed conclusion, you’d be a fucking moron…even if you agreed with me about political ideology.
BTD
@John Cole:
Hmm. Did you read your own post? You wrote that you ca not understand how anyone doesn’t think this is the greatest 2 years in the history of the United States Congress.
Some of us do not agree. I think it is not unreasonable to disagree with your assessment.
You think it is unreasonable. Seems to me you are the one demanding absolutes here.
SST
Y’know, I’d think that at some point all of the straw from these comments would catch on fire. But so far, so good…
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
The occupation that already ended?
We’re “occupying” Iraq about as much as we’re occupying Japan – less, because we aren’t in the process of leaving Japan.
You know who has absolutely no difficulty understanding that we aren’t occupying Iraq? The Iraqis.
different church-lady
@SST: I can see how some people would say that.
Maude
@Kenneth:
I don’t take Taibbe as god’s own truth since he wrote that Rubin’s son worked at the WH. Wrong and he got defensive when it was pointed out.
I am not sure which private security company is in Iraq now. Iraq had cancelled the Blackwater contract and this past spring told the remaining Blackwater employees to leave or they would be arrested.
To your general points about America.
We have a bloody history. We fought a bloody brutal war against the British to gain independence.
When war crimes are investigated, it is done without any public anouncements unless charges are brought. You do not know if the Bush Administration is under investigated.
You don’t know anything about Timothy Geitner. You are reading the usual tripe about him.
Summers is gone or going, find another one.
You sound like an Atrios commenter.
Read a lot of history and get some perspective.
Start with The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
If you persist on throwing out accusations, you will have no credibility.
El Tiburon
@joe from Lowell:
I wish I had Taibbi’s verbal skills to truly illuminate how utterly fucking stupid this statement is.
Let’s see, Taibbi is an accomplished and educated journalist with an expansive and impressive list of achievements. His insight into the US financial system is widely respected and repeated from nationally-known pundits and bloggers. He has written several books, the last specifically on the financial system.
Whereas the average Steeler’s fan thinks picking a booger is a full-days work.
So, your statement is as wrong as it is stupid. Now, you may not agree w/ Taibbi which is your (misguidede) prerogative, but it doesn’t mean he isn’t qaulified.
Ruckus
@Sasha:
Always bet on black.
Nice, I got a good chuckle outa that.
tomvox1
Come to find out, McCain helped torpedo DREAM cuz he haz a sad over Latinos not voting for him:
Talk about totally unqualified to be president. What a fucking crybaby.
BTW, as long as we’re talking about McCain being too old to be comfortable with the whole gay deal, can we also bring up how he’s almost certainly too old to be comfortable with the whole black deal? Ahem.
Omnes Omnibus
@BTD:
(emphasis added)
I would read more carefully before commenting in the future if I were you. I am not saying you are wrong to disagree, but you should be accurate in your description of the post.
different church-lady
@El Tiburon:
Not for nothin’, but wasn’t Judith Miller accomplished, educated, and respected at one time?
Zifnab
@LikeableInMyOwnWay:
Over the last 100 years? Sure.
But over the last 30 it’s been a straight line towards corporate oligarchy, economic instability, and the police state. Technology has buffered the curve, so a well-to-do middle class citizen of the 1960s doesn’t have the life expectancy or the quality of life that his poorer contemporary has today. But unemployment is up. Job security is way the fuck down. Wealth has congealed at the top of the income brackets. The SCOTUS regularly takes a chain saw to civil rights.
I’m just not feeling that progressive vibe.
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon: From your link, which you think makes the case that we intend to “occupy” Iraq in the future:
You know who doesn’t have any trouble understanding the difference between “recovering downed aircraft” and an occupying force? Or “threat intelligence?” Or “convoy security?”
Iraqis. You can pretend that “having any presence in a country whatsoever” and “colonial occupation” are synonyms, but the people who used to have to pass through checkpoints and then didn’t aren’t going to be fooled even the slightest bit.
El Tiburon
@Maude:
Is this how it happened?
huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/matt-taibbi-obamas-big-se_n_378705.html
Froman was put in charge of running Obama’s economic transition team and hired James Rubin, the son of Bob Rubin, a former Goldman Sachs chief and Treasury Secretary under President Clinton, to be his number two.Though he has never actually worked for the Obama administration, according to Taibbi, the Obama administration has long been under the sway of the elder Rubin’s philosophy:
Regardless, even if Taibbi was wrong as you say, so what? Is there a pattern here by Taibbi of making shit up? Such a stupid argument.
Karmakin
The problem in terms of economics is practically anybody who is in a position to know anything about it, is also equally out of their depth usually. (And that’s everybody from Krugman right on over to McArdle)
The reason for that is they only have a top-down view of the economy, instead of a bottom-up view. And you get two entirely different pictures. If you look from the top-down, then the economy looks like it should rebound pretty soon. (Although I’d argue that atypical corporate profits for a recession should make one give things a second look. It’s a pretty big red flag if you ask me)
From the bottom up, you see that companies actually have a quite a bit of productivity slack to play with, and especially in retail, consumers are more ok with longer waits for service than they used to be..it’s more expected, and as such, it’s going to be a VERY slow rebound for the retail sector and there’s unlikely to be any real rebound for the manafacturing sector.
Or in short, when it comes down to it, Everything You Know Is Wrong. Nobody really knows very much about this recession, because it’s so atypical.
SST
@different church-lady:
A truly impressive number of threads (here and elsewhere) devolve into the same discussion (if you could call it that) with the same arguments contesting the same sort of trust issue that no one can answer one way or another. At least, that’s how I see it.
But if other people weren’t willing to beat the dead horse, I’d have to skim something else.
J.W. Hamner
I’m not sure how much interest in grading the 111th Congress’s place in history before it’s even officially over… but I will say that the tax cut “sellout/surrender” engineered by the White House, and derided by nearly everyone, has turned out to be… without a doubt… one of the cleverest legislative gambits in the last 10 years at the very least.
Kudos on turning in such a productive lame duck Obama/Pelosi/Reid… I was extremely doubtful, but it worked.
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
Do you actually not understand that NONE OF THESE ARE CREDENTIALS? That absolutely none of them demonstrate expertise about topic of financial regulation?
Oh, he’s an educated journalist. Have you ever seen an educated journalist try to write about a Conservation Commission meeting?
Having an “expansive list of achievements” as a journalist makes one an expert IN JOURNALISM. It doesn’t make one expert in, or even knowledgeable about, any particular field.
And what do you imagine “widely respected and repeated” amounts to? Respected by whom? Certainly not policy wonks. Repeated by whom? Oh, right, bloggers and pundits, those two categories of people who are so well-known for their detailed understanding of technical questions.
Oh, he’s written several books. Excuse the hell out of me, lol.
You’re even worse than Kenneth. He treats Taibbi as an expert on a specialized field of knowledge in which he doesn’t actually have any notable expertise because they have a shared ideology. You’re even worse; you’re pretending he’s an expert because he’s a writer and you’re a fan
Good lord, people are easily-manipulated.
cynickal
It’s good to give credit where credit is due.
Thank you, Mr Reid, you’re an excellent closer.
different church-lady
@SST: Sorry, I thought I was making a funny about the definition of a straw man argument, but I actually got it mixed up in my mind with Wikipedia’s definition of “weasel words” (i.e. “some people say…”)
El Tiburon
@joe from Lowell:
So glad you are so quick to so easily believe the stated reasons by the State Department for continuing to occup- er, remain in Iraq to clear away our trash and debris.
What? Nothing to see here.
Hmmm, having five “enduring “bases and an embassy the size of Vatican city. Certainly not an occupation. Hey, as long as we are not vaporizing the citizenry with white phosphorous and gunning down their dogs, it’s all good.
But this is classic:
Yeah, I just don’t see how you would know a fuck about what an Iraqi thinks. But I do love your spunky naivete. Hey, did you know Iraq had WMDs? Do you simply believe every bit of propaganda put out by our government?
different church-lady
@joe from Lowell: Here, this might help: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
Johannes
@joe from Lowell: This. Kenneth needs a nap, though, IMHO. And Firebaggers haz a sad that the President got, as Maddow pointed out in the clip linked above, 75% of his campaign promises done in half his first term? Sweet Ghost of Jacob Marley, I wish these guys would direct their fire at, y’know, the Republicans…
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
@BTD:
All of this months accomplishments were made possible by the tax giveaway. How we look at them in two years should depend in part on how much damage the Republicans manage to leverage out of that compromise.
Looked at in isolation the various bills range from might-as-well-pass-it-as-not to victory for basic decency. But none of this happened in isolation. Next year should be interesting.
tractor
I was a big Obama supporter from the primaries on. I give him a lot of credit for some big victories in his first few months (particularly the stimulus), and for health care. Beyond that I think he’s a big disappointment.
– Financial reform: a farce, basically a big cave-in to Wall St. The big banks (and the rest of the ultra-rich) are more powerful than ever, and Obama has done nothing to reverse the trend toward oligarchy. The next financial crisis is just a matter of time.
– continued escalation of war on terror (just moved emphasis to Afghanistan)
– working on new policy of indefinite detention as we speak…
– has done nothing to curb power of unitary executive, govt invasions of privacy, and all the abuses of power Bush started related to the war on terror
In other words, he has generally governed as a corporatist, and has done little to reverse Bush policies relating to the national security state. Sorry, this is not what I thought I was voting for. Yes, health care was a major victory. I am happy about DADT, even though it’s probably not something that will affect my life very much.
With respect to START and the First Responders bill, basically every sane person was on his side anyway. So yes, nice accomplishments. But I voted for change. Health care bill aside, I haven’t seen it.
Maude
@El Tiburon:
I did read the original article. He did get it wrong and I read his responses to it. I don’t dislike Taibbe at all. I have a thing for checking facts, is all.
The Huffpo thing which I won’t click on isn’t what I read, from your excerpt, it seems to be a review of the matter.
I used that as an example.
I only make stuff up when I write fiction. It’s a much nicer world.
SST
@different church-lady:
All is forgiven. Some people say that some people say that straw-man arguments aren’t even real anyway. Just a figment of our imagination.
SteveinSC
“NONE OF THESE ARE CREDENTIALS…” Yeah, but unlike you, Joe, he can spot bullshit a mile away.
Just Some Fuckhead
@JPL:
As a parent charged with the quarterly review of report cards, A’s are expected, C’s are unacceptable. Unless it’s the final period and the grade was lower than a C and brought up, which is pretty much where we are right now with President Obama.
El Tiburon
@joe from Lowell:
Look, I never said Taibbi is an expert or had credentials.
YOU said he was about as useful as an average Steeler’s fan. I pointed out to you how wrong you are on this comparison. And yes, I understand using a bit of snark to make a point, but on this you simply failed.
Again, disagree all you want with Taibbi. On that I will not argue. But to make a claim, LIKE YOU DID, that he is just some dude with NO qualifications is simply absurd. To try and argue that he is not well-respected by a lot of other well-respected journalists and liberal bloggers is ignoring reality.
agrippa
@Karmakin:
I agree.
This is a different sort of recession. We do not have the flexibility that we used to have. Maufacturing is nothing like it was; we have massive amounts of debt, across all sectors. Many banks are technically insolvent; the real estate market is not coming back soon.
My solution, one of direct govt funding of a jobs program, is not going to take place.
I see years of stagnation. No depression – we avoided that – but no real growth. Sort of like Japan.
different church-lady
@SteveinSC: I think Joe proved he can spot bullshit just fine today.Redacted, in light of the clarification at #319
El Tiburon
@different church-lady:
And so what? So now we have a “Judy Miller” rule that all journalists are whores until proven otherwise? It’s a stupid response that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Karmakin
@agrippa: I think in reality there has been 12-13 years of real economic stagnation that has been hidden more or less by the financial bubble of the 00’s.
Maude
@joe from Lowell:
The Status of Forces of Agreement we have is with the Iraqi government. What I don’t understand is why people don’t know this.
The US Forces leave at the end of 2011.
I know you know this, but your arguements have been superb.
We are not the big bad bully in Iraq. The terrorists are.
different church-lady
@El Tiburon: Not in the least. I’m just pointing out that the appeal to authority you used was tissue thin.
El Tiburon
@Maude:
Well, according to the writer at Huff Po, it is YOU who is in the wrong here. Or at least it seems to contradict your assertion. But for someone who has a thing about ‘facts’ it sure is odd you won’t click on a link that seems to repudiate your facts. Seems like a Fox News tactic, doesn’t it?
And you didn’t really need to click on the link did you? I provided the relevant quote for you. Here, I will do it again:
Though he has never actually worked for the Obama administration, according to Taibbi
And here is what you wrote:
I don’t take Taibbe as god’s own truth since he wrote that Rubin’s son worked at the WH.
So, who do we believe?
Mnemosyne
@El Tiburon:
Actually, that’s not a bad idea. I think that Taibbi, despite his flaws, has sufficiently proven his non-whorishness, but I really have come to the point with the NY Times and Washington Post where I don’t believe anything they say without independent confirmation. The NY Times had its own blogger misstating what was in the Sunday magazine’s story about President Obama, ffs.
El Tiburon
@Maude:
Holy shit, that is funny. I apologize Maude. I did not pick up on your humor. It is very dry and sardonic. It’s almost like we really don’t know if you are being serious or joking.
But anyone who writes this, We are not the big bad bully in Iraq. The terrorists are has to be joking. It is simply impossible to be serious about this.
Or this:
Hahaha, OMG I am still laughing. My stomach hurts.
gwangung
I think he’s uncomfortingly too close to a lot of science journalists, where he’s fine in pointing out what we should be looking at, but doesn’t necessarily understands what we’re looking at.
El Tiburon
@Mnemosyne:
Upon further reflection, I think you are correct. They are all whores.
But Taibbi isn’t MSM like Judy Miller was.
The reason I am a fan of Taibbi (and Greenwald) is that I really feel that they write what they truly believe to be the truth, or as close as the truth can be gotten to. I know when I read Taibbi, I am not reading some filtered garbage that has to appease some editor or advertiser or some other agenda.
And to date, I have yet to see any serious contradictions of Taibbi’s work, or any contradictions that have held up. It also seems he has pissed off the right people, which is good enough for me.
Caz
Productive?? I guess if your definition of productive is “ramming through legislation that hurts American and that Americans don’t want,” then yes, it has been productive.
We’d all be better off if they stopped legislating us into a bigger central gov’t.
On START: I fail to see how limiting our weapons, and possiblly limiting our ability to maintain defensive missile capabilities is good for this country. I know they all say that the preamble, which limits our defensive capabilities, is not binding, but then why not take it out entirely? And if the Russians think it’s binding on us, then we may have some problems down the road.
On 9/11 responders bill: Just because it’s designed to help out those who sacrificed their safety on 9/11 shouldn’t mean you can’t criticize the bill or that you aren’t a patriot. There needs to be more assurances in the bill the illnesses are directly caused by the conditions at ground zero, otherwise we’re just throwing money at unconfirmed claims. In any event, how about reducing spending somewhere else to pay for this?
On DREAM (which failed): Finally, a bad bill that didn’t pass. No form of amnesty benefits our country, although amnesty will undoubtedly add many votes for the democrats, which is precisely their motivation.
On the tax bill: Keeping taxes static for everyone is a good idea. Extending unemployment benefits is good for the unemployed for now, but it undermines any motivation they may have for finding a job. How long do we subsidize their unemployment? How long is long enough? 52 weeks? 104 weeks? Indefinitely? Until the economy turns around? Again, reduce spending somewhere else to pay for this.
On the $1.1 trillion spending bill (withdrawn): The democrats (and some republicans) still don’t get it. The November results weren’t because Obama failed to communitcate with the American people adequately. And it wasn’t because democrats didn’t get out and vote. It was because we are tired of the out-of-control spending. They still don’t get it.
On DADT repeal: I would prefer we leave this up to those who are in the know, like the heads of the armed forces and those that run the military. How would you like it if a bunch of out-of-touch, corrupt politicians in Washington decided to change policies at your job without considering your input on what was good or bad? If the military leaders think we should repeal it, then repeal it. If they think it should remain in place, then keep it in place. There is a split among those leaders, so repeal of DADT was irresponsible.
When the American people speak out like they did on Nov. 2nd, the responsible thing to do is wait for the new Congress to arrive before bringing up all these controversial issues for votes. Ramming things through to avoide having to deal with a more difficult road with the new Congress is a slap in the American peoples’ face.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Shadow’s Mom: Thank you so much for that link! That’s kind of awesome. I particularly like how much Reid hugs Choi. They’re just such warm, human moments.
@Sasha: One would think! But then, I will never pretend to understand the mental state of the Log Cabin Republicans.
gwangung
Accurate, but not precise, then.
debbie
While it’s beyond gratifying to see so much accomplished in a mere post-election 7 weeks, what impresses me the most are the vote counts. Look at how many times Republicans did NOT vote as a block in just the past few days! How often did that happen over the past 10 years?
If Santa really wants to be generous this year, he’ll give McConnell a good dose of ants-in-the-pants. He’s already lost his leader-mojo.
gene108
@singfoom:
Lehman Brothers and Bear-Sterns never got into commercial banking. Glass-Steigal would have had no impact on what those two institutions did, had it still be law.
The only entity, which really was effected by Glass-Steagal was Citigroup.
Wachovia, WaMu, IndieMac bank, Lehman-Brothers, etc. were not heavily invested in both commercial and investment banking.
The deravatives bill that was part of the Graham-Leach-Blilely bill was the bigger problem.
sparky
@Just Some Fuckhead: never underestimate how desperately people will rationalize anything to shore up their cognitive dissonance. remember all those people running around claiming “Bush was right” every time someone in Iraq found an empty tear gas container?
Cain
It’s good to see the “I got this.” graphic. It’s been awhile since we’ve seen that! It’s like the bat signal for Obots. hehe.
cain
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Right, nothing would be more positive in a time of high unemployment than a good solid anti-corporation president.
I bet the White House is kicking itself up and down the corridors right now for missing that one.
chaseyourtail
Enjoy your Christmas crow, firebaggers. Hee hee hee.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Jesus, how the fuck old are you? Twenty? I was 34 30 years ago, I remember it pretty well. Things were FUCKED and the inflation rate was almsot 15%. Reagan was elected and in two years the unemployment rate was 9.7%.
Do you really think anybody in this country outside of the oil barons and a few other fat cats were better off 30 years ago?
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
How many bases do we have in Japan? How many bases do we have in Germany?
Way to move the goalposts. Since you seem to have forgotten, you used to be arguing that Obama hadn’t ended the war, and then you were arguing that we were occupying the country, no different than under Bush. Now you’re arguing that – omg! – we’re going to have security guards there, so it’s the same thing!
Pathetic.
Very simple: when we were occupying their country, there was a massive insurgency fighting to drive us out, and the government was unable to function because it was viewed as a puppet state controlled by the U.S. Now, the Iraqis have decided that there is no point in fighting us because they see us leaving, and the political factions that used to wage war against the Iraqi government are now joining it and operating as political parties.
Is there any more obvious way of calling attention to your own pwnage than an internet blatherer playing the “You’re so naive, I’m so worldly!” card? Lean against wall, pout, blow out stream of smoke, mutter, “It’s all just bullshit, man.” Good way to pretend you aren’t losing an argument.
I was against the Iraq War, and realized the Bush administration was lying about WMDs, in the summer of 2002, you douche. Getting a bit desperate to play to the crowd, aren’t you?
joe from Lowell
@El Tiburon:
Let’s go to the tape:
You wrote this, in response to my statement that Taibbi isn’t an expert.
I’d run away from this argument, too, if I had made it. Unfortunately for you, we can all still read your earlier comment. It doesn’t go away.
joe from Lowell
@different church-lady:
Srsly.
If you’re going to appeal to an authority, you need to choose someone whose authority in the relevant field goes beyond “he’s respected by bloggers.”
chaseyourtail
@tractor:
Obama took your penis. Obama took your penis. What a jerk!
joe from Lowell
The forced laughter thing?
Where you make a big show of insisting that you’re laughing?
It just makes you look like you’re trying way too hard.
joe from Lowell
@gwangung:
It’s sort of a degenerate form of Platonism. Taibbi and Greenwald may not right things that are true, but what they write is The Truth, man.
Seriously, what’s getting caught in errors and misstatements now and then? There’s a larger Truth, you know.
Kenneth
Notice how joe dodges the Obama-approved torture of Pfc Manning.
Lisa
I love you, John Cole.
Lisa
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century): Yes. This.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century):
Don’t stomp on a firebagger, you’ll get shit on yer shoes.
What Obama victories?! All of this stuff would have happened anyway (see, it did so I’m right!) so trying to give Obama, Pelosi or Reid credit is really stretching it. Guantanamo, torture, blah blah blah…
/firebagger
Triassic Sands
@John Cole:
Actually, Murkowski’s overall voting record is pretty terrible; it’s a sign of just how insane the Republicans have become that she would be considered not hard right.
It appears that despite her lame-duck votes, her overall votes in 2009-10 were significantly more conservative than usual, apparently in preparation for the Alaska primary.
With no exceptions, the voting records of the so-called “sane” Republicans are still dramatically more conservative than the oft-maligned (and deservedly so) Ben Nelson.
gwangung
@joe from Lowell: I think it’s OK to settle for “being in the right general direction” if there are few people doing that.
But it’s not like there’s an uncertainty principle that forces your to trade off accuracy for precision in these issues; it’s also perfectly fine to give more respect for being accurate and precise.
chopper
wow, the firebagger tears are fast and furious. and tasty too. more, please.
ruemara
@NR:
Wow. You’re a fucking idiot. Congratulations. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it demonstrated quite so unequivocally.
RalfW
@General Stuck: I’m late to the party, but my take:
The less-wingnutty GOPs pushed to allow some basic, humanly decent bills get passed this year, over the holidays, kinda like a Friday afternoon before Labor Day P.R. disaster dump.
A lot of the crazies watching Fox are drunk right now, or fighting with their in-laws who just arrived, or at Walmart buying imported crap they can’t afford. Perfect time to let the Senate pass a few sane bills, and come January, it’s back to the Ultimate Celebrity Death Match political bullshit that sells a lot more tickets.
This way the GOP can say, yeah, that passed, but while Obama and the Dems had control. Now watch us Kick. Some. Ass. [for our corporate overlords]
Jewish Steel
@El Tiburon:
I remember asking you frankly if you thought you were a troll and you said, “no.”
I can now tell you definitively that yes you are a trolling (ratfucking?) POS.
Eat pie, fucko.
timb
@El Tiburon: this is the dumbest “I want a unicorn” comment Balloon Juice history. Why can’t Obama be perfect?
El Tiburon
@joe from Lowell:
Joe, show me where I said he was an expert. You can’t because I didn’t. I never said he had credentials. Not once did I say he had any kind of advanced (or any kind) of degree or any kind of credentials in financial matters. Once again you moron, I was pointing out the fallacy of your fucking ridiculous argument.
I was very careful in my descriptions of Taibbi. At most I said his “insights” in financial matters were well respected. I said he was “well educated” not that he had a phd in economics or anything close to it.
You should really learn to read.
El Tiburon
@joe from Lowell:
Exactly. Thats the problem. Have you ever read Chalmers Johnson? Do you know all of the accompanying problems with many of our military bases around the world? Are you aware of how the populace is treated in many of these places?
I get it, you are cool with the US empire and our 700 military bases. Hey, we got bases in Japan, so it’s all good!
Do you even know why we have five bases in Iraq?
This is so typical. We invade, destroy and occupy a country for no fucking reason. We now have five military bases and its all good to you. Sorry, not for me. I want us out , all the way out, no bases, no military, no contractors, nothing. Oh, but what about Japan? Lets get out of there as well.
El Tiburon
@Jewish Steel:
Who took a shit in your cereal? So moody.
Kenneth
@El Tiburon:
DOWN WITH THE EMPIRE!
I love Chalmers Johnson. I don’t suspect an Imperial Apologist like joe from LoL has ever read him.
cthulhu
I have to say that I kinda appreciate Kenneth’s earnestness, if not his accuracy. Actually this is largely my attitude toward a lot of “true believers.” Their hearts are generally in the right place and they can, at times, serve the purpose of keeping others defending more nuanced positions to be a bit more honest.
But, sure, I’d never want to drive the four hours to Vegas with one of them.
snarkyspice
@SteveinSC:
Obama keeps showing that he’s smarter than people like you, and ahead of people like you, and yet you continually think the opposite. Kudos for the positive self image! But don’t be surprised when it turns out that you’re wrong about social security and that what he has actually done is lay a trap for the Repubs to walk right into. Write it down.
Kenneth
@snarkyspice:
Yes, yes, it’s all 1th Dimensional Chess, right?
LOL.
Kenneth
@snarkyspice:
Yes, yes, it’s all 1th Dimensional Chess, right?
LOL.
cthulhu
@Kenneth: And a master of self-parody. Huzzah!
El Tiburon
@timb:
You see what you want to see. I don’t expect nor demand perfection. But if you are satisfied that this ship is now back on track, have at it. I still think Obama squandered a once in a generation chance to seize this cluster fuck by the horns.
This, he did not do.
I don’t believe in primarying him, not in the strict sense, only in the molly ivins ” shift the conversation back to the left” sense. I will vote for him. And I will continue to support him when he does the right thing and criticize when he does not.
I don’t believe in unicorns nor utopia. And I don’t believe we should give deference to the misguided and destructive policies of the right.
I believe we should fight them vigorously and with determination. I don’t feel Obama does this.
cthulhu
@El Tiburon:
Out of curiosity, what President, in your opinion, has done so?
Scott P.
I happen to disagree with the treatment of Manning, but are you really arguing that there is no difference between solitary confinement and stress positions, sleep deprivation and waterboarding?
You’ll have lots of job opportunities in the next Republican administration arguing that reintroducing waterboarding is OK because Obama did basically the same thing.
gwangung
On the other hand, it strikes me that their repertoire of behavior seems a bit limited, and tends towards straight line battering ram approaches.
cthulhu
@gwangung: True, but even cannon fodder can be an important component in winning the larger battle. :-)
I personally prefer to deal with facts, logic, etc., as much as possible. Thus I find the misinformation on the right especially frustrating. But part of me accepts that left-leaning misinformation might be a helpful counterweight in the final analysis. Yes, the idealist in me wishes there was no misinformation anywhere but the pragmatist (psychologist) in me accepts that, at base, humans love a good story above else.
Jen7
I’m not happy. Obama caved on taxes that won’t help the economy. Meanwhile, my husband has been out of a job for almost 2 years and lost his unemployment for good. We will lose our home. Our home that we put thousands in as an investment. Now it’s all gone.
There are no jobs.
Fine, he passed health care legislation that no one really knows about because they failed on the message.
Fine, he passed finance reform that’s not strong enough because they failed to do their job.
Fine, he successfully bailed out GM, but who would know? They failed on that message too.
Fine, they got the 9/11 responders bill passed. They had to, once again, cave to Republicans (Who don’t give a shit about their fellow Americans).
Fine, they got DADT repealed. Okay, that’s one where I can’t complain. Good job dems and Obama!
But….THERE ARE NO JOBS.
If he wants my vote again, he’ll have to do two things: Stop caving to Republicans and NOT support extending those tax cuts to the rich in 2012.
I don’t see those two things happening. So, I find it hard to be all happy and jolly again about Obama because some things got done in the last two weeks in congress.
chaseyourtail
@Jen7:
Just be honest, Jen, and admit there’s nothing this president could ever do to earn your vote. Absolutely nothing. Let me put it another way, Jen, you’re completely full of shit.
Cacti
And they will say of the firebaggers…
Never have so few been so wrong about so much.
cthulhu
@Jen7: First of all, your situation is really tough. I wish you the best going forward. But do wonder about your list. None of the things you list would have had any impact on either the employment situation or any impeding foreclosures. One could point to the stimulus package not being large enough, but you didn’t mention that. Moreover, would a President McCain or a future GOP Pres in 2012 be any better for your situation or worse? If worse, why would you not vote for Obama? Because he gave you a third of what you wanted vs. zero?
I am honestly not trying to be a wise-ass but it seems to me that many voters don’t understand that “punishment” doesn’t work the same way in politics despite what the media and certain activists might claim.
johnny walker
@Mnemosyne: Slow down for a second and you’ll notice that the article also says that while overall use of contractors has gone down, use of security contractors has gone up.
Unless you’re saying that the quantity of Halliburton cooks somehow demonstrates something one way or another about how many Blackwater Mercs are present. I don’t know if the claim that we’re putting more contractors in than we’re taking troops out is true (more reading will be necessary on that) but it sure looks to me like you gave the article the ol’ cursory scanthrough for an angle from which to slam someone.
@Chrisd: I will admit to being a little confused as to the division of blame/praise myself. Near as I can tell, if something gets passed it goes back to being owned by Obama and he deserves the credit for it, but if the legislation fails for any reason then it’s important to remember that Obama isn’t a dictator and can only accomplish so much.
Obama passed the ACA; Congress prevented it from containing a public option.
Obama passed the stimulus; Congress prevented it from being large enough.
Obama got unemployment insurance extended; Congress extended the upper-end cuts and weakened the estate tax.
etc.
Now I predict someone will come along and confuse my criticism of BJ comment hypocrisy with criticism of the President himself. That person will be dumb. And they’ll probably try to do it anyway even after reading this.
Martin Gifford
Hitler got the trains to run on time! /godwin, yes.
I suspect John Cole is a GOP agent trying to get people to accept lower standards by focusing on distractions from the real issues. He was a Republican, IIRC.
A Humble Lurker
@ino shinola:
Case in point.
El Tiburon
@cthulhu:
I don’t think our country has ever been faced with the kind of insanity to this extent exhibited by the Republicans. Break out all of the cliched “decline of the empire” analogies, but this is a perfect storm we are fighting ( think the Great Depression and Vietnam and Korea and the Gilded Age and Father Coughlin and so on) all hitting at once, and Obama and many of the juice baggers are in a tizzy because a law passed that we all must buy insurance in hopes that we don’t die.
It’s like we are driving off the cliff, but excited because a kick ass song came on the radio.
debbie
@Jen7:
I’m where you are so I do know how you feel. Sucks, no?
I agree that jobs should be the absolute top priority. I do think Obama will focus on that in the new year, but I would have liked him to say very clearly at the end of yesterday’s news conference that he looked forward to working with the new Congress and that he hoped that they agreed with him that jobs would be the top priority. That way, every time Issa or someone else brought up some silliness, he could point to the Republicans “being out of touch with the American people.” Throw the Republican crap right back at them.
low-tech cyclist
We’ve still got a few small concerns on the table.
1) Climate change. Excuse me if I’m a bit skeptical about whether we’ll deal with that in time. We had a window of opportunity for the first time since the Supreme Court elected Bush, and it’s gone. Until 2017 or longer, if the Dems don’t abolish the filibuster. And by then, quite frankly, it may be too late to start unless we ramp up REALLY fast.
2) The upcoming GOP hostage situations.
a) The current continuing resolution expires on March 4, I believe. Is Obama prepared to let the GOP shut down the government if they demand major cuts in exchange for keeping the lights on?
b) The debt limit, which will need to be raised in April or May, if I recall correctly. Like (a) only on a larger scale.
The not-so-lame-duck session may have been an exception of sorts, a brief holiday from the rules for the remaining sane Republicans in the Senate, and a final opportunity for them to pass what in normal times would have been bipartisan legislation before the new Congress arrives. I don’t see anything particularly replicable here.
BTD
@Omnes Omnibus:
In every generation there is One . . .
My point still stand it seems to me.
cthulhu
@El Tiburon: I don’t quite see it as a perfect storm but legislatively, this is a unique level of obstruction. The GOP is now so full of anti-government activists vs. “better” government types who, while always eying entitlements, nonetheless were committed at least to the idea of “public service.”
Anyway, the question remains: which past Presidents under similar circumstances did fight hard enough to satisfy you?
les
@gwangung:
Nicely put. I think he’s a hell of a reporter, and a hell of a fun read. And he puts some light where very few people do, to our benefit. That doesn’t mean he’s qualified to construct, implement or predict the outcome of complicated financial regulation. The fucking problem is, it’s not at all clear that anyfuckingbody is qualified to do so. The proof of any regulatory scheme is in the actual, you know, regulations that are imposed to execute it, and in the regulators having the will, the funding and the executive support to do the job. We’ll see. I could wish for tougher laws; but I sure don’t know what the current ones can or will accomplish. I am pretty fucking sure El T doesn’t have the answer either.