Tomorrow, when you sit down for your Thanksgiving meal and your crazy right-wing uncle says something like, “Well, at least I can count on Bush to tell us the truth,” you can safely say, “You’re just about the only person who thinks so.”
…
Tell that to your uncle.
It is that time of year again, when the extended family gathers to feast, watch some football, and fall into deep quarrels over politics.
Well, hopefully you can avoid the latter.
But, if you have a brother-in-law or a shirttail cousin who insists –absolutely insists– on arguing “Bush lied, people died” again, follow these simple rules:
And if you are just some innocent bystander at your family Thanksgiving dinner getting harangued by the activist liberal/conservative at the dinner table, you are welcome to come to my house, where I have spent the afternoon balancing a box of wine on my stomache while watching football.
Gray
Sounds like lots-o-fun :-/
But you’re right, wine from california is a much better choice than american beer…
ppGaz
At least somebody around here knows how to watch football.
The only thing better is regularly calling out “Beer me, Marge” in Homer Simpson’s voice, and then having a beer brought to me.
I don’t know anyone named Marge but I just really enjoy doing that.
The spell is broken a little by having to get up and get my own beer, though.
Gray
Hmm, there’s a Margaret, a regular commenter, at Americablog. But I dunno if she’s not a he, so you might better stay with your imaginary girlfriend, ppGaz…
Gray
BTW, I have been thinking about “Bush lied, people died”.
I guess it never will be proven beyond doubt if W knowingly lied or if he’s just to dumb to recognize the truth, even if it jumps into his face. Honest guy that I am, I wanna propose a new slogan that’s not so difficult to prove:
“Bush mislead, 2000 dead!”
What do you think, would this improve family relations?
:D
capelza
Balancing that box of wine on your stomach John? I have this image of a tube running from the tap directly to your lips, like a hookah….best I could accomplish is a straw directly into the bottle of Beaujolais (bite me you French haters :P), though the husband might feel left out.
Hope your team wins and the food is excellent. This goes for all…:)
Mike S
Even the Republicans in my family know Bush sucks. My step-father, a Republican since Ike and a major history fanatic, says he’s the worst President ever.
I do long for the days when politics and religion were considered to be non dinner table talk though.
Kimmitt
So true.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Not I. I think both topics are great to discuss at the dinner table. However, I think there are certain times that this should be an exception and thanksgiving would be one of them.
I should also note that the keyword is discussed and not argued.
Abram
Ah, but one topic can really bring the family together:
The Cowboys suck and deserve to be embarrassed today.
M. Scott Eiland
Well, my holiday trip for the year is at the end of December, so this issue is moot: I’m spending the day reorganizing my room so that I can turn on the wall heater without burning the apartment building down, and watching a bunch of guys argue whether Joe Louis was a greater heavyweight champion than Ali was. Plenty of fun to be had.
Dave Ruddell
When you can no longer balance the box on your stomach, you’ve had enough.
KC
Gawd, I wish I could be drinking a box of wine, watching football. I’m having to skip thanksgiving altogether to finish writing this fxcking thesis. Jealous, I am.
RSA
Hewitt’s arguments are pretty silly. I’ll highlight a couple of points:
Number 3 quotes SecDef Cohen on why we bombed Iraq, including the statement “We’ve degraded Saddam Hussein’s ability to deliver chemical, biological and nuclear weapons,” and then apparently uses this as evidence that Saddam still has WMD. Huh?
Numbers 4 through 6 ask what should have been done before 9/11 to deal with Al Qaeda. Hmm, already we’re straying quite a bit from the claim that Bush lied.
Numbers 9 through 11 go over some less-controversial issues about Al Qaeda, ones that can be accepted on both sides of the argument.
Bingo, I guess, it’s obvious that Bush didn’t lie. After all, we’ve ended up discussing a bunch of things that Clinton did or didn’t do, and a bunch of things that Bush didn’t lie about. (“George, did you chop down that cherry tree?” “Well, Dad, a bunch of other kids were talking about chopping down the tree a few years ago, and–look! Our neighbor seems to have clearcut all his maples! What was the question again?”)
Here’s a better and much simpler approach for Hewitt fans: Ask your opponent specifically what Bush has lied about. Whatever the response, say, “I think someone’s had a little bit too much to drink,” and ask someone else to pass the stuffing.
Dexter
Is that not true, you america-hating, terrorist loving left wing freak? We had no way of knowing what Saddam had or what he would do next. Now we know he is in a place where he can never hurt us — or his people — again.
docG
I long for the day when they were two distinctly different topics.
CaseyL
I disagree. Without politics and religion to argue about, the gathered family has no choice but to talk about themselves and what they’ve been up to. This leads to arguments about unsuitable spouses, unsatisfactory children, overbearing parents, selfish siblings (v. siblings who use martyrdom to make others feel guilty), and the ever-popular “Why Are You Still Dating That Loser?” interrogation. There’s also the ancient familial custom of using holiday gatherings to rehash everyone’s Most Embarrassing Events and Worst Misjudgments.
At least politics is less personal.
RSA
Of course it’s true, you impervious-to-logic, insignificant piece of right-wing vacuum. That’s the point. That’s why inspectors were unable to find anything.
ppGaz
How stupid. Of course we did. And if we didn’t, we should have. And if we didn’t, we should have found out before we started a fucking war.
Dexter
Ppgaz and RSA, you have prevented no facts but merely called me names. Is this the highbrow, “reality-based” liberal dialog I have heard so much about?
ppGaz
You are making a proof-by-assertion argument, namely, that “we had no way of knowing” what the threat was.
That’s bullshit. We had the ways of knowing. We may not have used them appropriately, or enough. The proof of that is that the assumptions we made were ALL WRONG.
Saddam Hussein was no immediate threat to this country. When no WMDs were found after the invasion, the government of this country should have resigned in disgrace, and would have if it had any honor whatsoever.
What were they thinking? Acting like a bunch of scared pussies, starting a war over perceived fear and using half-baked intelligence? Who hired these guys to act like a bunch of hysterical old women and start a war over “woulda shoulda coulda” assumptions?
Give it up, man. The people have figured this out, even if you haven’t.
RSA
Dexter, I was responding in kind, though perhaps being called an America-hating, terrorist-loving freak is a compliment in the circles you travel. ppGaz and I are making essentially the same point, which only the extremely dense can avoid seeing. If you’d like to prevent some facts on your side, I’d be happy to address them.
Dexter
The CIA produced flawed intelligence. And the congress saw EXACTLY THE SAME intelligence as President Bush saw. EXACTLY. No difference, nada, zilch, nothing. If Saddam was such a a good guy, then why did some bogus intel convince the Hitleries and Dingy Harries of the senate to vote to take him out? Hey, maybe Saddam should get a nobel peace prize.
ppGaz
Uh, let’s try to refrain from shouting out the obvious.
And, that does not translate into “we had no way of knowing.” Excuse me? We are to unleash the mighty power of the US military on a country when we HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING?
Not acceptable. Not even close. I want the resignations of the stupid potatoheads who pulled this boner on my desk by nine o’clock tomorrow morning.
Oh wait … they are still going around making self-justifying speeches and calling ME names because I question their judgment.
Their party is over, amigo. Trust me.
Over.
RSA
Funny, the White House acknowledges the opposite, though of course in their usual self-serving fashion.
Sojourner
Happy Thanksgiving, DougJ!!
ppGaz
Oh no. Not again.
I TOLD you guys I had too much wine today.
Sojourner
We need a designated DougJ monitor.
Steve S
LOL! Not surprising to see Hewitt now running away from politics. I’m sure he doesn’t look forward to the dozen relatives saying to him, “Hey Hugh. We told ya so.”
Grotesqueticle
I’m with docG, I long for the days when relegion and politics were two distinctly different topics.
John has coined a new word by combining “stomach” and “ache”, I will use this in the future.
All I have to say about combining wine and football, is “DEAR GOD, NO!”
Krista
Please….wine goes with everything. Football, bar mitzvahs, work…
ET
WHOA!!!! Careful with the imagry John.
Angry Engineer
I would have much rather argued about politics than to get into the middle of a squabble between my wife and my dad concerning what should be done about my deadbeat sister, and then watch the Lions get creamed by the Falcons.